On the Porch with Jim Williams
Capturing the stories of the folks of Marion, McDowell County, and Western North Carolina. Told by those with first-hand experience.
On the Porch with Jim Williams
Nora Coffey - Park Superintendent Lake James State Park
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
Nora and I discuss some of the many attractions at the park. Most of them are free. Maybe a couple of tales from the past and one kinky story about handcuffs. It's worth a listen.
Hello, I'm Jim Williams, and we're on the fort. Well, I've got uh an old friend here today who's not old, uh, but she's actually the prettiest friend that I have that carries a gun. This is the park superintendent out at Lake James, uh, Nora Coffee. Nora, thanks for coming in.
SPEAKER_01Thanks, Jim. I'm so glad to be here.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm glad to have you here. There's a lot of stuff. How long has it been since we've seen each other? A couple years, maybe.
SPEAKER_03Probably at least three, four years. I think so.
SPEAKER_02Well, the older you get, the faster it goes by. So uh let's just start out by tell me a little bit about how you wound up out there at Lake James.
SPEAKER_01Oh boy. So this year in March was my 19th year at Lake James State Park. My goodness. I it's it doesn't even sound real when I say it, but I do the math and it's been 19 years. I came from up north. I worked at the Shed Aquarium in Chicago for eight years. So I graduated college in 2000, and I have a degree in forestry and with an emphasis on park management and resource management. And I thought I'd go right to a park, but the aquarium recruited me because of my background in environmental education also. And I started working at the aquarium and I loved it, and I worked all over the aquarium. I worked with the public, with doing education, and then I found that I really liked working with the animals. So I focused on the animals more in the the next several years and realized that if I wanted to ever use my park degree and my forestry degree, I needed to get outside of the walls of the aquarium. And I found that my favorite days were when I was doing some fun off-site assignment out in nature. And I that's when I realized, yes, I do need to get out in nature. So I started looking for jobs all over. I really was fond of the eastern part of the United States, definitely wanted to get more south away from the Chicago winters, and just started applying. And I got an interview at Lake James, and I was like, okay, I don't know anything about this place. It's kind of landlocked. Maybe I will get a job there and then transfer to the coast. I always thought living at the coast would be fun. And I realized after a couple of years I landed in Paradise. Um Western North Carolina is the most beautiful place. It is, I agree. And I, yeah, I I lucked, lucked out on my first try and think I'll spend the rest of my career here.
SPEAKER_02Of course, we're glad of that. And I I know the park will just benefit from having you here. So let me I want to ask you some questions that I don't think you and I have ever talked about because and I'll get to the real world here in a minute. You, among other things, are a police officer.
SPEAKER_01I am. So I came up my first job, was just a a park ranger, a ranger one, we call it. It's an entry-level park ranger, and I did that for three years. And all North Carolina State Park Rangers are commissioned law enforcement. We're special peace officers, it's a special commission by um commissioned by the governor of the state. So we can enforce any North Carolina state laws as well as park park rules and regulations, um, make them law or administrative code.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've been out there 19 years.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Anything you want to tell me about? Any events happened that sticks out in your mind?
SPEAKER_01Oh gosh, I want people to, you know, I want people to think that coming to the park is, you know, safer than any place you go, but it's it's it is, but it isn't. So, you know, criminals still go to state parks. Right. People break laws in state parks. Now they might, you know, a dog off leash or you know, littering and stuff like that happens. But people people do stupid things in parks, they get drunk. Um, people s you know, we have theft, people will break into vehicles, um, they get drunk and rowdy. Those are more of the, you know, more common things, but it's not like in the city where every single day you have people breaking laws. Right. So throughout the year, there's a handful of crazy things. The most crazy things are usually drug related, unfortunately.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01Really, like people are on drugs or get drunk and then they do stupid things, domestic issues, or they're locked behind the park gate, they're having a bad, bad time on their drugs, and they want to get out. And so we've had a few times people try to ram the gate to get out.
SPEAKER_02No kids.
SPEAKER_01We've had people call the cops because people are just acting crazy, and then they get in fights with police officers. Um so uh and then and then there's you know a mental health problem. And so unfortunately, sometimes it results in law enforcement having having to get involved, and that happens quite a bit as well. Again, these things aren't happening on a daily basis, but you know, we have a few law enforcement interactions a month, I would say. In some parks across the state, they have interactions on a daily basis. You take a large park like Jordan Lake State Recreation Area, for example, you've got over a thousand campsites, it's like a small city, and more they have more law enforcement interactions and issues. But we're we're lucky in that it's not a daily event for us, but we do have to be prepared. Um, we have to be just as trained up and ready to act. We often assist our other neighboring agencies, both Burke and McDowell counties, um, on the lake. They have officers on the lake in the summertime, but not throughout the year. So we help one another out. And then Wildlife Resources Commission, uh, they are the main law enforcement agency overseeing the lake, but they they help us out quite a bit, and they will call us if they're not on the lake and need us to check on something for them.
SPEAKER_02Well, let me ask you this. I've started watching YouTube, you know, because I want to increase my intelligence. And uh on YouTube, these people will be out in the boat, you know, they're out driving their boat around, and then law enforcement will drive up and get the driver of the boat because he's intoxicated. Do they do that on Lake James?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. Really? In the summer, it happens frequently. And what a lot of people don't realize, you know, especially when folks who maybe they just bought a jet ski, but they've never been on a jet ski, and they want to go out and they have fun. Their buddy has a jet ski, or their cousin has a jet ski, and then they start dancing around the water, getting really close to one another, and that's when accidents happen, or they'll be doing that and they're drinking. They switch off and let other people drive. Um, they come in too close to the swim beach, they come in too close to shore where people are swimming, maybe just from the shoreline, some random place, and people get injured. So they do a lot of safety stops when people are are maneuvering unsafely. Um, they'll be coming too close to boats. And then there's boaters who are just flying by in an unsafe manner and getting too close to another boat. So there's boating laws that I'm not an expert on the boating laws, but we do work with Wildlife Resources Commission. We can call them and you know ask for their help and guidance if we do feel like we need to pull somebody over if we're not sure, um, or call them to assist us. So but they they definitely have a much stronger presence on the lake in the summer, and they they will do safety checks, they will check for intoxication.
SPEAKER_02No kidding. So in all this time, have you ever had to handcuff anybody?
SPEAKER_01I have once. Really?
SPEAKER_02I have. Oh. And were you rough with them, threw them down on the ground, and kicked them? Because isn't that what you do?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely not. Oh no. If they physically assault me, I defend myself and do what I have to to restrain them. But fortunately, this individual was very compliant. Um, and it was, gosh, I'm yeah, on the air. It's not it's it's sort of a funny incident. It was um somebody who was stealing ladies' underpants from their tents.
SPEAKER_02Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_01And I caught him red-handed, pockets full.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, well, um, I don't think I want to know anymore.
SPEAKER_01That was many years ago. Many years ago, while I was still a ranger, and that is my one and only arrest. Now I've I've written several citations and I've had we try to we have this officer discretion, and if we feel like we can really get our point across and be effective and get compliance, you know, through educating folks, yeah, then we try not to write citations if we don't have to. If somebody steals something, yes, they're getting arrested, or you know, they're getting a citation, if they're littering um a great deal in front of me. But if they have their dog off-leash and they really didn't know, um, you know, if we try to educate folks, this is the law, this is why we have the law, and a lot of times folks really understand and apologize. But like I said, if they're breaking like a state law, they're probably gonna get a citation.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And the rule is if you, if I get woken up in the middle of the night from my campground host because somebody is, you know, breaking a noise violation or they're intoxicated, they're absolutely getting a citation if I get woken up because of a broken rule or law.
SPEAKER_02Do they allow alcohol at the lake anymore? Well, or any at all.
SPEAKER_01So the um the state park and the lake are are separate entities. So we we patrol the state park and our shoreline. So you can have alcohol on the lake. You could have beer and wine. Drivers cannot be into boat, drivers of the boat cannot be intoxicated. Right. Um, and in the state park, you can, we did just a couple years ago start allowing it on a like sort of a limited basis by permit only. So by permit only means if you are have a registered campsite, that is your permit. You can have alcohol on your campsite. You can't be walking around the campground with it, you can't have it in the buildings, um, and you cannot be intoxicated. So it's not just free reign to drink as much as you want. You can have a few beers, glasses of wine, um, even a cocktail, but you cannot be intoxicated. That's breaking the law in a state park. Um, other permitted events, the the ice festival. So if somebody wants to have like a fundraiser event or a big wedding and rent some facilities, they can apply for a permit. And that that will trigger um several hoops you have to jump through. Right. You have to get insurance for your event, you have to get an ABC permit, you have to hire actual servers. It's not just BYOB, you can't brown bag it at your event, um, and there is an extra fee for that. So large, large scale events where you might want to have alcohol, you can get a permit. Um, at your campsite, you're allowed to have it, and that's it. Absolutely not at the beach, never at the beach. If you rent the picnic shelter, you can't have it there, you can't walk around the park with it.
SPEAKER_02If I wanted to have, say I rented a campsite or two adjacent to each other, yes, and I wanted to have oh 20 friends come out for a barbecue, could I have beer?
SPEAKER_01Well, there are six-person limit per site. Oh, okay. So if you had two sites, twelve people who are of age could have alcohol on the site.
SPEAKER_02Okay. All right. I wanted to talk to you also, and we talked about it when you first came in. I told you we're gonna be jumping around.
SPEAKER_01Yep.
SPEAKER_02Tell me about that city of Fonta Flora that uh got flooded out.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so when Duke Energy started buying up land around the the Catawba River and the Linville River and Paddy's Creek, what we now the area where Lake James lies, they they bought up property and Fonta Flora was a little community on the northeast side of the lake where the lake is now. And it was um a community of sharecroppers. Um and most of what was flooded, to my understanding, what I've come to learn, it was most of it was farmland, cropland. Now there were several buildings, a handful of buildings, to my understanding, that had to be removed. Um there were some buildings along like what is now the shoreline, buildings around the edges that may or may not have been flooded. Um so they Duke Energy did remove several buildings, but for the most part, the majority of the land that was flooded was cropland.
SPEAKER_02Cropland, yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes, and some of the you know, some of the higher elevations, the the ridgetops, there were probably that's probably where you saw the buildings. But if you know how the topography is around the lake, it's a lot of really sharp up and down. So the lake is really deep, it drops off really fast. The most of the lake, most of the main channel um is 90 to 100 feet. A lot of the coves are still 80, 60, 80 feet. So a lot of it was was that lower, lower cropland.
SPEAKER_02Do you know approximately? I won't hold you to numbers, how many parks there are in North Carolina?
SPEAKER_01There are, we keep adding park units, and a park, you know, park units are state parks, state um recreation areas, and state natural areas. The natural areas typically are not open to the public or don't have facilities. They might have trails on them or a trailhead and a bathroom. Um, and last I checked, we're in the low 40s. The low 40s. 42, 43-ish. We've recently added in the in the last five years in the West District. It's now the Southwest District. We're five districts now. Um, we've added Bob's Creek um State Natural Area, and that's a 6,000-acre tract of land in McDowell County, south of I-40, that will have trails. And I believe they have a six to ten mile trail that'll be opening up hopefully later this summer. Um, and that will get you close to, you know, it's close to Chimney Rock. I eventually there's a plan to have the Wilderness Gateway Trail that will actually connect South Mountain State Park all the way to Chimney Rock through Bob's Creek. So I know they're working with Foothills Conservancy of North Carolina. One of our partners we're proud to work with, a land cons our local land conservancy has helped purchase the land. A lot of that land was originally purchased by Tim Sweeney. Um, and he, you know, will hold property until he can transfer it or sell it to um an agency that will protect it. So we got a lot of that Bob's Creek land through a deal like that. And then there's um Pisga View State Park. It will be a state park open to the public in in a few years. That was, I believe, an old horse ranch or horse camp that is near Asheville. And then we've got Yellow Mountain that is now in it's a northern mountain park, and that's a state natural area. So that will probably just have trails in it, mostly there to protect the land and protect the rare resources.
SPEAKER_02Wow, the I I see why you like it here. It's just for a naturalist, it it's just booming, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01It really is. I love what this part of the state is doing to protect the land. I love what state parks is doing to protect our our natural and cultural resources. We really are doing a great job at that. And in a state that's growing as fast as we are, North Carolina is one of the fastest growing states in the nation. Certainly in the southeast, it's really important to protect as much land as we can because this is what we're known for. Nature's Morganton is nature's playground, and McDowell County, you know, has just as much, if not more, um, natural space and amazing what we're doing with trails. We are adding trails at lightning speed. I wish I am amazed. Yes, I wish the parks could catch up. We are, you know, we are behind schedule on a lot of projects. We had a staffing shortage, a staffing drought for many years. We're just now getting caught up. Helene kicked us back down.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh. So yeah, I want to talk about that.
SPEAKER_01We have, you know, we have a lot of projects we are still trying to wrap up and get done. We'll never, I don't think we'll ever stop trying to improve and add more trails and maintain the trails.
SPEAKER_02Well, speaking of improving, uh a couple, three, four, I don't know how many years ago now, under your supervision, Lake James became park of the year.
SPEAKER_01We did.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's not a small thing, is it?
SPEAKER_01No, it's not. It was it it we really like doing what we can to please our our visitors, and I guess we did we did a great job of adding adding trails, adding facilities, customer service. Um, you know, staying in budget was part of that. And um, we added we had just added the Holly Discovery Trail that got several peer awards. Um it's it's been so wonderful to be part of such like a fast growing park. Most parks don't grow that fast. We they don't get to add facilities as quickly as we did. So we we grew really fast. We got the Paddy's Creek section open to the public, and it's been a huge success. And hopefully we can continue to maintain it and then add even more. I still have I say I have a little over five years left, and I have these trial projects I want to see through before before I retire.
SPEAKER_02Well, I I have so much that I want to ask you, and and I'm trying to put it in a good order. Let me approach it this way. How much damage did Helene do to you?
SPEAKER_01Compared to other parks like Chimney Rock and Mount Mitchell. Oh, they took a hit. Yes, they did. We still took on a fair amount of damage. We were able to get facilities in the park reopened fairly quickly, but there's we were able to do temporary repairs. I say, you know, we we duct taped her back together and got it open as safely safe in a safe enough manner to where we could open for the public, but the permanent repairs are gonna take another five to ten years. Um there are uh the park was aging, aging infrastructure. The Catawba River section is 35 plus years old. Right. And a lot of those timbers were original timbers that were put in in the campgrounds and picnic sites. And as you probably know, the um, you know, lumber is not treated like it used to. It's safer um for human contact, but it also rots more quickly. Correct. So we need to think about more, you know, sustainable fixes. We're not gonna replace timbers with timbers if we can put something in that'll last another 30 to 50 years, even 20 years. Right now, uh timbers around a campsite, they used to last 30 years, we're lucky to get five years out of them. Oh, wow. So, you know, costs of materials are going up. We're we're in the process of trying to get a larger budget for state parks because costs of everything are going up, and our, I don't believe, our budget has increased along with inflation. So we need to really try to get funding to be able to sustain and maintain our parks. So going back to specifically your question, what kind of damage? The swim swim swim beach took on some damage. We need to, you know, we'll need to permanently remove the sand, get all black matting that was underneath the sand when the beach was originally made. There's a lot of that still exposed. We need to scrape the beach down, pull all that up, regrade it, put that back down. That's gonna be several hundred thousand dollars to do all that.
SPEAKER_03Wow.
SPEAKER_01We got the beach open. We basically dumped more sand down. We got the docks put back in place. Several of the docks that were damaged were 30 plus years old. They really needed to be replaced. Do they have to be replaced right now? No. They sick they succumbed damage. Um they need to be replaced soon. So we are looking at permanently replacing several of the docks that were damaged in the hurricane, but we were able to get them repaired and put back in place. They'll last a couple more years. But those are some examples. Of some permanent fixes. Some of the campsites, long arm, the Bowdoin campsites are all at a much lower elevation. Um, timbers got ripped out. We were able to maybe feather back the land there or add some more gravel dust. We'll need to do a lot of erosion control around the Bowdoin campsites. The Catawba River area campground was already eroding away. Hillen came in and caused a lot more damage. So erosion control measures will hopefully in a couple years, once hopefully by next year, we'll get started on those projects of adding riprap where it's needed, replacing soil where it's needed, a lot of root balls tore out a lot, a lot of moved a lot of earth. That's going to continue to erode until we can get um riprap in place and rebuild some of the some of the sections that got flooded.
SPEAKER_02So you got you took a big enough hit.
SPEAKER_01We did. We did. Um, you know, piece by piece, they they don't seem that big. You know, a couple campsites at Longarm, you know, maybe several hundred dollars or even a couple thousand dollars worth of timbers, but again, timbers aren't lasting like they used to. So do we want to go in with concrete pads or a concrete border or you know, use some sort of concrete blocks system so that it, you know, we we hope to not ever have anything like Helene again, but storms are getting bigger and and we are we are seeing, you know, more frequent large storms.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Well, are you allowing swimming at the beach?
SPEAKER_01We are. So we reopened the beach last July 3rd. Um we didn't know, you know, June 1st, we didn't know if and when we were going to be able to reopen, but we did get permission to reopen. We got everything um ready to go by July 3rd last year. We just did a very soft opening, so we didn't know, you know, if how hard we would be hit with um with visitors, would they come back in full force? We were still short staffed at that time, so we wanted to ease into the summer and make sure our repairs would hold. So it went really well. So we opened um the beach. May 1st is opening day for us. It's set with all of our inland, inland swimming areas, May 1st through September 30th. So we did open May 1st. The weather has been great, so we've yeah, we've been seeing, you know, a a good number of visitors on the weekends, but Memorial Day is really the kickoff for us. So we're expecting a big crowd on Memorial Day. We're getting the last, you know, last minute preparations in place, getting the parking lot restriped and make sure we can fit as many cars in as possible.
SPEAKER_02Do you have a lifeguard on duty?
SPEAKER_01We will have lifeguards on duty, and this is something um state parks budget is, you know, we we took on a lot of extra cost because of Helene. We we lost a lot of revenue. So we are, you know, over budget, uh, which means our seasonals, seasonal pot is under budget. Right. We we don't have enough money in the pot to hire the same number of seasonals we normally do. Right. So where safety is an issue, those are prioritized. So lifeguards were funded, um, but they are limiting the days that we have lifeguards on the beach. So lifeguards will be on the beach Thursday through Sunday. Okay. So we'll have six lifeguards on duty, which means the concession stand will be open to sell refreshments, um, keep people hydrated, also sell those swim bands. Um we partially fund the lifeguards through receipts. So by selling the swim bands, it's six dollars for adults, four dollars for children ages three to twelve, kids two and under are free. So you can buy those swim bands at the concession stand. Um the gift shop will be open Monday through seven days a week, so Monday through Sunday. So on Monday, Tuesday, and Wednesday, we will not have lifeguards on duty, so those will be free swim days.
SPEAKER_02Okay. So with no lifeguard, people can swim for free.
SPEAKER_01They can still swim. It's for free. Yep.
SPEAKER_02And what days of the week can I get a candy bar?
SPEAKER_01You should be able to get a candy bar any day of the week, seven days a week. We should have we should have enough staff to keep the gift the gift shop and office open down there where we sell. You can get a candy bar and a bottle of water, even if the concession stand is closed. You could also go to the visitor center. That's open seven days a week, and you could buy a candy bar there.
SPEAKER_02Oh, you got candy at the visitor center?
SPEAKER_01We do. And we will have some food trucks this summer. We don't, for some reason, we don't get a lot of like full food service trucks like taco trucks, burgers, um, hot dogs, but we will have Carolina Snowy on the beach um most days this summer. Definitely our busy days through the weekend. And then we have several other vendors who sell either ice cream or fresh fruit. Oh nice. Yeah, a variety of like nice refreshing treats, fruit and ice cream and snow cones and things like that. We will have uh on weekends, I believe every weekend we'll have somebody selling something either in the parking lot or on the beach, and then hopefully a few food trucks here and there.
SPEAKER_02You really like that new visitor center, right?
SPEAKER_01I do. It was it was a long time coming. We put a lot of years. A lot of years. We started planning for it in 2016. It was a bond project, and we didn't open it until 2023.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that sounds about right.
SPEAKER_01So it was a long project, but well worth it, and we're really pleased with it.
SPEAKER_02It looks nice. I've been out there a couple times. I guess I need to get out there again, and uh maybe I'll go out when Annette Bryant is on duty out there so I can see her at the same time. Yes, Annette's qualified to sell me a candy bar, right?
SPEAKER_00Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02Okay, all right. Well, good. Because you gotta eat.
SPEAKER_01You have to eat, you need to keep up your energy, especially if you hike down to the bridge. That it's it's a short but steep hike. So eat your energy, get a Snickers bar.
SPEAKER_02Is that bridge in place and looking good?
SPEAKER_01It is 240 feet of glory.
SPEAKER_02And what trail does that connect to?
SPEAKER_01Fonta Flora State Trail. Oh, that is the same thing. It will connect you from the visitor center out to um well to the end of the Long Arm Peninsula. It's about seven miles of trail.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. I I want to talk about your programs that you still have out there. I mean, you still have the there was a time when you could get in the canoe and see an otter or something. I don't know. Yes, you still doing that?
SPEAKER_01We we are, and we actually have two of the big canoes. State Parks has two fleets of big canoes, and they they hold 14 people each. We use these a lot with school groups. But anyway, can old people go? Yes, yes. Well, in fact, we do so we do regular canoe programs also, but big canoe programs have become really popular among scout groups and school groups. Um, but we usually annually we used to get a group of folks from Grace Ridge retirement home in Morganton. Right. It was one of our most favorite groups, and I think our oldest participant was a lovely woman in her early 90s.
SPEAKER_02Oh my gosh, it makes me feel better.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so we we do a lot of group programs. Like we, as of last November, after several years of being grossly understaffed, we are back to full permanent staff this year. As of November, we hired on our last ranger. So we have five rangers, five maintenance mechanics, two office managers, and myself. So, and the schools and parks educator, which is a new position added. We've added eight of these sort of spread out across the state, and their job, their main the main duty is to connect school kids with parks. So she works out of Lake James. Her name is Katie Gray, and she's absolutely wonderful. Um, just a ball of energy and sunshine. And she is so great with school kids. She was a high school teacher for 15 years or so before coming to us. And she works with Lake James State Park, but other state parks and connects so many school groups to the park. It's been wonderful. She has a cohort of teachers she works with from our surrounding counties. And one of the first uh cohorts she had, one of the teachers went back to her school to try and recruit students, other teachers to commit to doing programs. And our superintendent, or I guess our principal at Nebo Elementary, Miss Ashley Bagwell, uh kicked it up a notch and she said, Not only do I want this grade of students to come out, she's like, I want every single one of my teachers to do a field trip. I want every grade coming out to the state park. And we did that last year. So the idea is that this will, you know, like catch fire, and all the schools will try to bring more and more classes out and more and more grades. We did not anticipate in our first year that one of the first schools we reached out to would say, yes, sign up my whole school. We want every kid to get out to the state park. Yes. So that is the ultimate goal to get every kid out to a state park, and we just hit the jackpot with working with Nebo Elementary, which makes me proud because that's where my boys went.
SPEAKER_02How old are your boys now? I'm changing subjects.
SPEAKER_01Oh my gosh. 12, and my older son will turn 14 on Monday. 14. Yes. Hard to believe.
SPEAKER_02That's when they start giving you trouble, you know that, right?
SPEAKER_01Oh, yeah. I know that well. They're boys, but they're fun. They're so fun.
SPEAKER_02Tell me a little bit about your bicycling trails out there.
SPEAKER_01Okay, we have approximately oh, 14 miles of single-track mountain bike trails, the Tindo Loops and the Wimba Loops. And then we've got an additional eight miles of what's dedicated Fonta Flora State Trail, and that's multi-use hike bike. It's a little bit wider, it's not a single track, so it makes it a little easier for bicyclists of all levels, abilities, and ages to comfortably ride. Um, one thing, I guess, hopping back to Helene damage, our East Wimba trail is still, it probably took on the worst damage and number of trees that came down and the amount of trail damage. We have two bridges on that trail that were knocked off their abutments, and that trail is still closed. We're working really hard to try and see if we can't get it open this summer. Um, so we're working working on different solutions to help us get there. So, right now that trail is the only trail in the park that's closed. It's about four miles of our single track.
SPEAKER_02Is that the one that's more advanced or it is, it's a little more advanced.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02Because you had one that was kind of easy, yeah, and then one that was kind of advanced. Okay, so the easy one is open.
SPEAKER_01Yes. But it must be busy now since Yeah, and the Fauna it's nice having the fauna flora because it connects you to the Burke County section. So you can really get a lot of miles in. You can go from the visitor center, um, you know, the visitor center off the park property, it's seven miles, and then you hop on NC 126 for a short distance. Yeah. And then you're over at the county park where gosh, 10 to 15 miles of more trail can take you almost almost all the way to three-way, that three-way supply intersection. It's wonderful.
SPEAKER_02It is, it's a it's a great trail. I think Fonta Flora was just a great idea. Absolutely.
SPEAKER_01I can't wait to see the rest of it done.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I well, I I hope I live long enough to see the rest of it done. It's a great thing. I think what I want to do is talk to you about the lay of the land out there at the park. So I'm a uh I'm just a guy sitting around Lincoln, Nebraska. My wife decides, let's go to North Carolina for a vacation. Okay? So I go out to Lake James. What do I do?
SPEAKER_01You go to the visitor center and get a map and ask any one of our knowledgeable folks at the front desk, tell them how how much time you have, what you like to do, what your ability is, and they will suggest some great views and some great hikes. If you like to hike, we'll definitely suggest if you're able to hike down to the bridge, because it's pretty steep. It is steep. Gain some elevation. Um, if you want a mountain bike, we'll again, what's your ability? What kind of mileage are you looking for? We'll probably send you out on the Fauna Flora Trail or the West Wimba Trail. Um, if you want to swim, if it's May 1st through September 30th, direct you down to the beach. If you want to fish, you can go fishing. If you want to go bird watching, we'll give some great suggestions for that. Um, just really find out what folks' interests are. And that's what's so great. Are folks who work the front desk? It's a combination of our office staff, some seasonal staff, and some great volunteers. Like Annette will tell you what kind of birds you might expect to see. Um, everybody has their own sort of interest, but they will give you the highlights. If you only have one thing to do, this is what you must do. If you want to see mountains, you're actually going to exit the park and do the loop around the lake, around the Burke County side of the lake to get those spectacular lake and mountain views. If you want to camp, we'll direct you to the campground.
SPEAKER_02Well, even from the visitor center, that view of short off is just great.
SPEAKER_01Phenomenal. It's such a great view.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, it's pretty good. What are you the most proud of?
SPEAKER_01I I get asked this question a lot, and I've so I've got sort of got I know what it is now because I had to think about it for a while. Um, but it's it's definitely the partnerships that I've fostered and made. Uh we wouldn't, especially in our times of low staff, we would not be able to do and accomplish what we do without all of our community partners. Um and that's it's other local and state agencies, but it's also private organizations. And we have so many and we do so many, so many events and activities together, we wouldn't be able to do the level and amount of programming we do without the partners, especially when we were short staffed. I've always I I see my my park family as that of family. If we're short staffed, if if if somebody's short staffed at another park, we go and help them when they need it. And and that that you know should work in return. And that goes for other other agencies and community organizations. If they're trying to do a program, you know, for the community and they want our help, we do what we can to help. We have a great relationship and do a lot of programming with Lake James Environmental Association, Foothills Conservancy of North Carolina, um other, you know, both Burke and McDowell County governments. Um you name there's so many, so many organizations, too many. I I know I'm gonna forget um Latinos Adventureros and Kula. We partner with uh, we're getting ready to host an event with Barefoot Baby Foundation. Oh my goodness, yeah. Um and I don't want to let the cat out of the bag too soon. I know Alyssa's starting to promote some of that. Um the West Marian Community Forum, we do host a Juneteenth event with them. Um, just so many wonderful partners, and it it, you know, it takes a village. Yeah, really does. And we wouldn't have been able to do the programming without these partners and really make sure that every park visitor and every resident of our county were really trying to meet their needs. One of my favorite new partnerships is with a group called Waypoint Adventures, and they they help bring folks with disabilities into the outdoors and enjoy all the fun activities that we do from hiking to kayaking, mountain biking, even rock climbing. And it doesn't matter the disability, it could be cognitive, it could be a physical disability. Um they do their best to work with everyone and get everybody, make sure that we do everything possible. If if that person, if there's a way to get them to enjoy the activity they want, this group will go out of their way to make it happen. And Friends of State Parks, our our state friends group, has partnered with them this year to help fund that program for another two years. And we're actually gonna have a ribbon-cutting celebration on July 24th at the state park, just announcing this partnership for everyone. They're helping us to be a better agency and be more inclusive. So we're we're really working hand in hand with them. We've been offering programs. I think this is our second, second or third year. So we have a handful of programs coming up. We're always looking for volunteers. It takes it takes a lot of support to to really help and assist some folks with some disabilities need more help than others. So we just want to make sure that we are as supportive as we can be, and it's been some of the most rewarding work for me and my staff to help somebody get in a kayak or a canoe to get out on a trail if they are mobility impaired. And we have um Waypoint Adventures has a lot of adaptive equipment. Uh State Parks is starting to purchase more equipment, and it's that's been one of the most rewarding partnerships in recent years.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've got that uh there at the Kitab side, you have that trail, it's paved all the way down.
SPEAKER_01And just this month, we added a mobility walkway to the beach at Paddy's Creek to make it easier for not just folks in wheelchairs, but also folks with strollers, folks who might have walkers, and just it's really difficult to get through the sand. We've added one 100-foot section, it's five foot wide, and we wanted to see, make sure that was the right product. We're really happy with it. We're gonna start trying to raise funds to get another section to extend it, and then also tee off of that to get down to the water. The first section was funded by Friends of State Parks and Friends of Lake James State Park. Costs about $4,000 to get that one section of matting. So another $4,000 to extend it, probably another $2,000 to tee off of it down to the water. We've also got um a beach wheelchair that someone with a a traditional wheelchair has would not make it through the sand. So this has the bigger balloon tires. Oh and people can come up and ask at the the beach office or the concession stand and and loan it. We it's a loaner program.
SPEAKER_02Well, that'd be kind of cool. Yeah. I mean, if you have to have that. Now there is a loop trail that's nice, and I can't think of the name of it. What is it? Right you go through the parking lot and then you're in the loop trail.
SPEAKER_00At Patty's Creek section?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_00The Holly Discovery Trail.
SPEAKER_02No, well, I'm gonna talk about that in a minute. This is right, you you go by the concession stand, get a candy board.
SPEAKER_01Oh, the Mills Creek Trail? Yeah, Mills Creek. Uh, Mills Creek Trail. That's a pretty good trail. Three and a half mile trail. So for folks looking for a little more distance, you get some lake views, you get a lot of nice forested views. It will connect you. It there's um a connection to the campground, and we're actually working on a connection to the visitor center. So eventually you'll be able to hop off of that trail onto a visitor center loop trail. And that one we we actually have been working on that in the last couple weeks. There's one problem section. We need a little bridge, and we're hoping to get that. Hopefully, we'll get funding and plans to finish that up this fall.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's a pretty nice trail, isn't it?
SPEAKER_01It's it is what would you call that intermediate or intermediate just because of the distance and there's there's some elevation gain. I mean, we're talking, you know, a lot of ups and downs, maybe 50 to 100 feet here and there. Um so yeah, it's it would be difficult if you have mobility issues, um, but but it's it's not difficult, it's not overly strenuous, it's just a little bit longer.
SPEAKER_02So this mythical couple comes out from uh Nebraska and they can hike and they can bike. What kind of souvenirs you got?
SPEAKER_01Oh, we have a great gift shop. You can get mugs if you're not looking for anything big. We've we've got t-shirts, we've got sweatshirts if you get chili. Oh, cool. We've got hats. Nice. We've got magnets, pins, medallions, hiking stick medallions.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, you didn't have those. Uh when did you get those?
SPEAKER_01A couple years ago.
SPEAKER_02Oh, well, it's been a while. I've been out of circulation.
SPEAKER_01We've got water bottles, we've got some camping supplies if you forgot. Your s'mores stick. We can sell you a s'mores stick.
SPEAKER_02No kidding.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we sell we also try to carry um a lot of what we carry are from local vendors. We we carry local honey. Um Um fire starters for your campfire if you forgot to bring bring um you know lighter fluid or kindling.
SPEAKER_02What's a campsite cost a night?
SPEAKER_01Oh um I believe we are up to with the fees thirty dollars a night for the Catawba River walk-in campsites or the Paddy's Creek Drive to sites. And if you're boating out to Longarm, $20 per night per site.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's not bad. Yeah. You can afford that. Do you still go online to get them?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Okay. Go online. You can register at the park office, but you can go online and you can register up to the day of um through through the go to the state park. It's um ncparks.gov, and then you would slash Lake James or just do a search for Lake James. Yeah. And then there's a link right there that says reservations. If you show up at the park, if you show up to a campsite, we have um there's a QR code right there in in a few locations, sometimes at the individual campsite or up at the bathhouse. You can just scan the QR code and it'll take you right to the reservation site.
SPEAKER_02Would you explain to me why you do control burning?
SPEAKER_01That's a great question. We actually had one yesterday. Um this area for a lot of reasons for habitat enhancement or improvement for fuel hazardous fuel reduction after Helene killed a lot of trees, a lot of a lot of blowdown. We've got a lot of heavy fuels, they're drying out. So if we control, if we burn them under controlled parameters, then it can be safer. Um and we can people always say, how do you control a wildfire? We're not controlling a wildfire. We're controlling the conditions in which we burn, higher humidity levels, we wait until there's more fuel moisture. So you do it after, you know, a couple days after a rainfall, you have rainfall rain coming up in the forecast. Humidity levels change from day to night, from day to day, wind, wind directions change, wind speeds change, and all that controls the humidity of the air, humidity of the fuel that you're burning, um, different times of year. So that's how we control it. We we write a prescription for a unit based on our objectives. Sometimes, if we're trying to improve the habitat for wildlife, you know, we there are certain certain um ground covers that different wildlife prefer. Um, and this area was heavily logged and then planted like pine plantations. So you might have a monoculture of white pine or a monoculture of loblolly pine. And that's not gonna have a very diverse, you know, it's not gonna have a lot of biodiversity. You're not gonna have a large number of variety of organisms. So to provide habitat that would maybe be historically correct for an area, pre-logging, um, natives in this area did a lot of controlled burning. We burn to achieve those different habitat types. And based depending on what you're looking for, what that's how what guides your prescription. So do we want and also what your habitat's made up of, what's there now? Do we want to burn it? You know, do we want to have a hotter burn? Do we want it to be a really low intensity, slow-moving burn? Depends on what what the makeup of what the fuel structure is.
SPEAKER_02I could say safely that really a control burn is not going to be for the most part harmful to the animals.
SPEAKER_01If you're looking at biodiversity, do some animals die? Yes. Yes, but animal populations thrive, they grow. So you you might you might kill a few individual animals, but overall populations of a variety of animals will benefit from the burning and it's beneficial.
SPEAKER_02It doesn't harm the forest.
SPEAKER_01It doesn't. Wildfires can harm the forest much greater than than a controlled burn does, than a prescribed burn. We like to use the term prescribed burn. Um so yeah, it's it'll it will actually help the overall health. It'll help make them more resilient to fire in the future. A lot of our plant life in this area is dependent on fire and that they won't reproduce. Pitch pine and table mountain pine need fire for their cones to open up so that they can reproduce. There's a lot of native, a lot of endangered and rare plant species that will only thrive if there's fire.
SPEAKER_02I don't want to talk about the ice yet. Do you have any signature programs that are coming up, much as I hate to say it for kids or anything like that?
SPEAKER_01Um signature programs or like events? Well, events, yeah. Events. So Barefoot Baby Foundation, keep an eye out for that. That's um that they're doing a family, a fun family day at the park on June 13th. It's a Saturday, and that will be great for families with young kids in the morning hours, and then for maybe ki families with older kids, nine and up in in the afternoon hours. And then Juneteenth with Friday, June 19th, will be another family fun day. We'll have some hikes, some beach, beach games, music, music like DJ music at both events. So it'll just be more of a fun, fun family vibe for both of those. We'll have the big canoes out, I think, for both of those events. Um I don't know about the big canoes on barefoot baby day, but for Juneteenth, we'll have the big canoes out. So those are a couple of fun events. We'll have Waypoint Adventures, that ribbon cutting. We will have big canoes out for that and do some guided hikes. Um on Juneteenth, one interesting hike we'll have is a hike to an old historic cemetery, the Rock Hill Cemetery. And that's an old um African-American cemetery, and a lot of the folks buried there were freed slaves. And what we're coming to find out through lots of extra research is that they there may have been some enslaved people actually buried there. We have at least around 50 known marked graves, and evidence was leading us to believe there might be several unmarked graves. So we had the state do some ground penetrating radar where they can see where we have additional graves. And we did two additional studies and found that it's likely that there's at least 150 graves. So that we're talking a hundred unmarked graves.
SPEAKER_02Now, is this on park property?
SPEAKER_01This is on park property. It was an inn holding, the Rock Hill Church, um, and it was Rock Hill AME Church, and there was the last church was there up until 1965, and we've been working with several family members of folks who are buried there, and with the Foothills Conservancy, who's been raising a lot of money to do the additional studies and restoration. That's another project that is near and dear to my heart. One of the things I'm most proud of at the park in recent years as well is getting uncovering this, no pun intended, um, just having family members ask us to help them restore the cemetery, make sure that it stays maintained. And then we have we still have some projects in our master plan, and we wanted to make sure that we weren't getting too close to the cemetery, so we really needed to know what the true size was. Yeah. So that's kind of how all this got started. So we'll be doing a guided hike and talk um to Rock Hill Cemetery on June 19th.
SPEAKER_02That sounds interesting.
SPEAKER_01That'll be really cool. That'll be in the morning. And you can go to the State Park website. We try to advertise our regular weekly or monthly events a couple, usually a month or two a ahead of schedule.
SPEAKER_02Okay, cool.
SPEAKER_01So go to the park website to find those.
SPEAKER_02Janet and I hiked to a we believe it was a slave cemetery, an old cemetery. And on the tombstones, people would leave nickels and dimes and quarters, and that was a tradition so that the spirits would have some money in the hereafter. So we hiked into a graveyard like that. Uh I I only collected a couple bucks, but it was worth the hike. Uh I I do want to get to the um ice festival. That's turned into a big event.
SPEAKER_01It has. It's been our biggest fundraiser for the Friends of Lake James State Park and another, another just interesting different things. Yes. Um, trying to we're always trying to bring folks into the park when we're not at our busiest. So we we don't have to recruit folks to come down in the summer, but we we do want visitors in the winter. So trying to find fun things that folks can do in the park in the winter, that's the ideal time. You know, my my staff isn't overly stressed and overly worked that time of year. So it's when we can really accommodate a big big fundraising event. And we just happen to have um a world champion ice carver who lives at the lake. And when we met, he was telling me about festivals he does up north. And I was like, gosh, I would love to do an art installation in the park. Could we ever do ice sculptures in the winter? And he said, Yes, you could easily do it, even on days when the temperatures get warm. You the temperatures will drop at night. And he said, if you did it in January or February and held an evening event where you could keep them out of the sun's rays, then you could hold a successful event with no problem. And didn't really believe them. The first year was such a huge success. It was, and every year thereafter, it's just grown into such a wonderful, wonderful event. And the quality, I know there are a couple ice fests around, and I'm not going to knock them at all. They're great, they're wonderful. I think everybody should be exposed to it, but the level of the artistic quality of these sculptures, I don't know. I wouldn't say that we only allow world champion ice carvers, but we've only had world champion ice carvers. And these are multi-year winners of world championships. And Aaron Costick, who has is our main artist, our featured artist who helped think up this crazy fun event, has won several world championships. And this past year he went to his fourth Olympics and won his third medal. So he's got a complete set. Oh my goodness. He's won the silver, bronze, and gold medals. This year he won the silver in Milan. So when I say world class artists, um, they don't get a whole lot better than that, and they'd be right, right literally in our back door.
SPEAKER_02Well, is it too soon for people to contact you that want to sponsor? I mean, people do sponsor.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. If you want to sponsor and you don't want to forget or miss an invitation, you can call the park office and say, Hey, I want to be a part of this event. How can I help? We will probably start, usually around July or August, we start raising funds for the following year.
SPEAKER_02What does it cost to do sponsor?
SPEAKER_01Um, our sponsorship levels start at $500, and that's for a single block sculpture. And that gets that helps us pay for the ice and cover. We have a VIP tent for the food, so that covers the ice, the food, and then a little, whatever is like some sponsorship levels. There's a little bit extra that goes over and becomes a donation, you know, just goes into our the money raised. So we really raise the the funds mostly come from those who are buying tickets, and then a small amount trickles over from the sponsorships. The sponsorships really pay for the event itself because it costs a lot of money. Um, it's probably it's 20 to 25 to $30,000 worth of ice. And then you add in, you know, all the other smaller expenses, but the ice is the biggest expense. So we have to cover the cost of the ice, and then remember it's a fundraiser, so then we have to raise thousands of dollars for the friends of Lake James State Park. Right. So that we profit any we've profited anywhere from five to eighteen thousand dollars.
SPEAKER_02Now, when Janet and I went out there, there was food and uh beer and wine, I think, but we were sponsors. Is that why we had the food, or can does a ticket buyer get food?
SPEAKER_01It has changed. The first year it was only we like sponsors came and it was pretty much an event for the sponsors, VIP tickets, and food and drink was included. But to open it up to the general public and sell those tickets, we now have food trucks. So the general public can buy a ticket for you know $20, $25, and then they can purchase food from food trucks or beer from Fonta Flora. Sponsors get that include. We have usually catered food, a catered tent, VIP tent, where you get your drinks covered and the food covered.
SPEAKER_02Okay. And you're using Fonta Flora Brewery.
SPEAKER_01We're using Fonta Flora Brewery. Yeah. Yes.
SPEAKER_02Well, that's a good choice because they got some good brews.
SPEAKER_01They they do, and they donate, they donate the beer for the sponsors. Oh, so we we get a great deal from them, and they always buy a sculpture as well. So they are really giving back, and they're right on our, you know, we share a boundary with them, so they they like to be our exclusive signature beer sponsor. But we could use a wine sponsor, so if any wineries out there.
SPEAKER_02Well, there should be some wineries that would join in.
SPEAKER_01Hopefully, yeah. We'll be reaching out.
SPEAKER_02That's a good idea. Where's the ice gonna be? Is it at the visitor center?
SPEAKER_01It's at the visitor center at Paddy's Creek in Burke County.
SPEAKER_02That's Burke County.
SPEAKER_01That's Burke County.
SPEAKER_02Well, you've got some good wine.
SPEAKER_01But the money does benefit, you know, the whole park.
SPEAKER_02Right. We'll finish up here in a minute. I I I tend to run too long, but over in Catawba, the the stepchild now, how are things going over there? Is it still a good place to go?
SPEAKER_01It is. And one thing I should mention, you so the old swim beach is not open to the public on a daily basis. Okay. We just don't have the staffing for that. Right. But it is a rentable um uh facility. So you can rent the beach and the shelter together. It costs the total cost with the the reservation fee is four hundred and thirty-three dollars for the day. So if you're having a graduation party, a birthday birthday party, uh a church event, um, rent the shelter, which seats about a hundred people, the beach, you know, you can fit a couple hundred people on the beach, and you get that private beach and shelter for the day. If you want to rent just the shelter for a family reunion or a picnic without the beach, you can still rent that. It's $108 for the day. But if you want to add the beach in, if you have a large group and everybody pitches in, that can really cut the cost down.
SPEAKER_02That's not bad.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So that's that's still going well. You know, that that section of the park is aging. We're trying starting to replace grills. Um, but that costs a lot of money. That, you know, that commercial grade stuff, um, grills and picnic tables are expensive. So we are slowly replacing stuff as it as it wears out. We can't always replace everything the same season. So you might get a picnic site without a grill. A lot of folks bring their own, but there's still a handful of grills over there. There's grills at the shelters. Um, the shelter is always free if it's not reserved. It's free on a first come, first-serve basis. And the trails, we still maintain the trails over there. The campground is still very beloved, and we're still maintaining it. It we do need to do some work post-Helene to try and stabilize the shoreline. A lot of those sites are on the water. Some of them are starting to get undercut. We had to close one of them after Helene because it's it's one that was out on a great overlook. Site number four, it was our the beloved favorite campsite for many, many years. Um, we've had to compl permanently close that site.
SPEAKER_02Oh man. I think you reminded me that when Janet and I first met you, we were out hiking the Fox Den Loop Trail. And you were and actually still are the only person I know that carried a gauge that could tell me what kind of scat I was looking at.
SPEAKER_01I had a little, yeah, my little scat guide.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You probably don't need that anymore now that you're up in the ranks, huh?
SPEAKER_01I can usually yeah, I don't I don't do as guide as many hikes, but I still guide some. And I always loved I love that trail because I live on that section of the park and I still hike it. And if you go out there in the spring, you can still see fox kits if you're lucky. Usually around just before sunset, um, you hike that trail, and there's several foxes that burrow out there and raise their kits. So it's still a great spot to see.
SPEAKER_02Before I close, I want to get I'll give you a shot at talking here, but uh, before I close, tell me some more about these big old canoes.
SPEAKER_01The big canoes.
SPEAKER_02Do you rent those?
SPEAKER_01How does a you don't you if you have a group like say the Rotary Club wanted to do that? That's where I'm going. You would um call and they hold 14 people each, so you could have up to 28 with both canoes. You would just email the state park and say, How does my group get to do a big canoe program? And they will direct you to Katie. She'll look at talk to you, look at the schedule, and see what's available and let you know, you know, you could do up a maximum of 28 people, and you would be responsible for you know signing up. Maybe only maybe only 10 people are interested. We would we only need to take out one canoe, and you can do it with a handful. If you if you only ended up with six adults, we could do one canoe with with six adults, but up to 14 per canoe.
SPEAKER_02Can I rent those shelters?
SPEAKER_01You can rent the shelter. You can um call the park office or go to go to the website if you wanted to rent the east or west shelter at Paddy's Creek. Yeah. The Katawba shelter, you have to call the park or email the park lake.james at ncparks.gov, so ncparks.gov, um, and ask us, let us know what dates you're interested in. We'll send you a special activity permit. And this is for the the old park, the Catawba river section. If you want that shelter, you have to contact us directly, East or West Shelter at Paddy's Creek. You can go online and reserve it.
SPEAKER_02The Catawba shelter that was donated by the Rotary Club of Marion McDowell County.
SPEAKER_01Nope, Marion. And we have a plaque up there still.
SPEAKER_02I know you do. Let's say we're at Catawba and we're in the rotary shelter.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02Now, do the canoes, the big canoes, can we take them out from there or where do we I believe we can arrange to have them brought over there.
SPEAKER_01See, I'm and then you would get in them from the swim beach.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01Or the boat dock. I don't I I I maybe the boat dock, maybe the swim beach, I don't remember.
SPEAKER_02Well, I'm gonna meet with the president of the Rotary Club uh next week, as a matter of fact. Uh and I'm not gonna do this as too much work for me, but he's gonna put together an event quickly. He wants to put to get the Rotarians together. I could see what we would like is a place to eat, yep, and then a place to recreate. Yeah. Uh and those canoes would be great for recreation. Now we would be held to if I understand you right, we'd be held to no beer though at the shelter. Correct. Okay. Well, I think we can get over that. There are there aren't too many at the end.
SPEAKER_01You know, one of our other wonderful local establishments, Micah Town, Fauna Flora. Fauna Flora, right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay. Is there anything you want to say to me you that you want us to know about the park?
SPEAKER_01Just that, you know, we're open every day at 7 a.m., 364 days a year. We only close on Christmas Day.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, gate hours fluctuate throughout the year, usually right after dusk. Um, and just be nice to your park staff, thank them, encourage. Certainly, I agree. Pick up their trash. Um, and just if if you have any suggestions or questions, just let us know. Give us a call, hop in and say hello. And I'm glad to know that you're still using our park.
SPEAKER_02We'll get out there to see you. I've got to come out and see out there and see what Annette really does. She says she works. I don't know. But we could see her and you at the same time.
SPEAKER_03Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02So I I really want to thank you for coming out here. It's been so long. Since I've seen you, and then you just decided to accept my invitation, and I really appreciate it.
SPEAKER_01I was honored. My pleasure.
SPEAKER_02Well, thank you very much. For those of you that are listening, you can just contact me. I'm at uh On the Porch with Jim Williams. That's one word. On the porch with Jim Williams at gmail.com. Email me if there was a part of this that you didn't get, but uh if you're not sure, play it back. Nora was pretty clear about how you can contact the park. Uh I have been at the park and I used to enjoy the park a lot more than I do now, but it is a great place to go. It's it's just so much fun. It's a family place. I think you'll enjoy it. Uh if you've got kids, I'm sorry. I had nothing to do with that. Uh but you can take them out there. Maybe leave them out there if you want to. They got a good staff. You'll take them, won't you?
SPEAKER_01No. Take your children. Oh. I was gonna say they must be leashed, but that's dogs must be leashed at all times. Another important note.
SPEAKER_02Dogs must be leashed, and children. Children just need to be supervised. Need to be supervised, which I think is actually opposite the way the world should be, but that's a whole other story. Thank you again, Nora. I appreciate you coming. We'll see you next week on the board.