On the Porch with Jim Williams
Capturing the stories of the folks of Marion, McDowell County, and Western North Carolina. Told by those with first-hand experience.
On the Porch with Jim Williams
Steve Pierce - President of McDowell Trails Association
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Steve and I discuss numerous trails in Western North Carolina. Steve's vast hiking experience allows us to provide specific details about many of the trails. If you're a hiker, or just interested in North Carolina back country, this one is for you.
Hello, I'm Jim Williams, and you're on the porch. If you're a hiker or plan to be hiking in western North Carolina, I would advise you to somehow record, print, or somehow memorialize this podcast because today I have with me the president, and I have to say, a good friend of mine, the president of the McDowell Trails Association, Steve Pierce. Steve, thanks for coming down.
SPEAKER_01Well, thank you, Jim. It's good to be back on the porch.
SPEAKER_02It is good to see you here. Uh, and we're gonna talk about one of our favorite subjects. We're gonna talk about hiking today. And this podcast is designed for those of you that are used to hiking with a day pack, uh, maybe even an overnight pack, but I don't think we're gonna get into camping. And I don't have any overnighters, do you?
SPEAKER_01Overnighters as far as up as far as on the hikes? No, no. I did all day hikes.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I did too. So so if you're used to carrying a day pack, taking enough water, taking snacks, wearing the right kind of equipment, being prepared for the elements that you're gonna face, this is the podcast for you. Now, those of you that enjoy, and we certainly do too, enjoy hiking the Greenway or the Fauna Flora Trail. Those are excellent trails. We recommend them. I know Steve recommends them.
SPEAKER_01Absolutely.
SPEAKER_02But you can find them, MTA website probably, or uh you can you can get them anywhere. That's not where we're going today. We're gonna get a little more specific. So we're gonna launch into this with uh bad news first. Trail hiking is like most sports, has some inherent danger. Besides uh twisted ankles and falling off the cliff, if you're that dumb, there are other things that you will probably encounter on the trail. So I'm gonna talk about some snakes. Here in western North Carolina, we have two types of pit viper, and those are the venomous snakes. We have a variety actually of rattlesnakes, and we have the copperhead. Now there's another prominent pit viper on in the southeastern part of North Carolina called the cottonmouth water moccasin, but we don't have him here in western North Carolina, thank goodness. Last year in 2025 in North Carolina, there were 600 venomous snake bites. 600. Of those, about 90% were from copperheads. Now, here's the good news. About half of the copperhead bites just uh create pain and swelling, but the other half, if you get envenomated, you were gonna need medical attention. So you need to take care of yourself, get off the trail, get medical help. The things that we recommend that you do is wash the bite area. I can tell you from experience, if you get bitten in the hand, get your rings off because your hands and fingers are gonna swell and become quite painful. Uh you need to just stay calm, keep the bite up around the heart level. Things you don't do anymore that when I was a Boy Scout, this is what we thought we did. Don't put ice on it, don't cut it, and don't put a tourniquet on it. Keep those things in mind. Have you ever seen any snakes on the trail?
SPEAKER_01Well, yes, um 99% of them are non-venomous. Uh black snakes, you know, just your uh garter type snakes, just you know, rattlesnakes are usually off the trail. Sometimes they might be on the trail. Rattlesnakes, if if they're rattled a little bit, they will rattle.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_01That's a good thing though, because that way you know where they are. Yes. Um, I don't worry a whole lot about rattlesnakes because they they just I've never been bothered by them. I've seen them, a few of them off the trail. Usually, if they are already coiled up and got that rattle going, something else has already spooked it. Um a dog with a hiker or something like that. Copperhead's a different story. Um they they are so well camouflaged, you can be almost on top of it uh before you see it. But again, I've not had any any encounters that have been, you know, even even threatened by uh by this uh uh venomous snake. Um I just just common sense, you know. If you see one, don't go near it. Uh don't get your camera out and say, I want to get a real close up of this.
SPEAKER_02Good point.
SPEAKER_01Um, just if it's on the trail, wait it out a little bit. It will eventually go off the trail. If it's on the side of the trail and you can give yourself plenty of room to get around it, it's you're you're fine.
SPEAKER_02Um well I and I think that's good advice. Copperheads, especially I'm afraid of. Well, I'm afraid of all snakes, but uh copperheads you have to watch, especially if you're in if you're hiking in a group and you're you're hiking along, you're having a good time, and you're suddenly not paying attention, you can walk up on one, or even worse, you're taking a break and you put your hand in the wrong spot. Yes. Copperheads will, in my opinion, copperheads will come after you. Uh whereas a rattler will give you a warning and and move away. So just be aware. I I find this to be a comforting statistic, is that uh in there were thousands literally of snake bites across the United States in 2025, and there were five recorded deaths from the snake bite. Now, there are other desks deaths involved. You're trying to get to the doctor and you run off the road. You have a heart attack because you're scared to death. There's one recorded incident of a guy, fortunately, he didn't die, was bitten by a rattlesnake, ran out to find help and actually ran into a tree and was severely hurt from the tree injury when he smacked into it. So just use your head, stay calm.
SPEAKER_01The other comforting thing is if you look at the demographics of those that get bit by a venomous snake, there's I think uh something like age 18 to 25 male, because they're gonna say, oh, I can let me get this. I've aged out of that. So I I'm I'm beyond the statistics.
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, that's and here's another little statistic. There's a group called the San Diego Herpetology Society, and they put out this one year, uh, one recorded year, and this was maybe 20 years ago, they recorded all the snake bites, and of those snake bites, of the people bitten, 30 percent were intoxicated. They just didn't have enough sense to leave the snake alone. So enough about snakes. When you're on the trail, I know Steve probably does this as a matter of practice. You get to your campsite or you get to a stopping point, always be checking yourself for ticks or any other bug, spiders, whatever. Because that can be a problem because they do carry disease. I think poison oak is a big deal for me.
SPEAKER_01Any any yeah, the poison Ivy, poison oak, those just look for leaves of three. Right. Like I say, leave it be. Good point, leaves of three. And just know what to look for. And uh I was hiking hiking the Appalachian Trail in Georgia, and there was one stretch where you could not step off the trail w without stepping in large patches of poison ivy. Right. I mean, it was everywhere. Brilliant bright green leaves, but you could not you there was just the trail and that was it. Yeah, it it's out there. I do I I think I read that uh poison ivy will usually grow where the soil's been disturbed.
SPEAKER_02Oh, really?
SPEAKER_01So, you know, if if that's why you it sometimes I think it might be close to the edge of a trail. Um, I just I just watch out for it and and avoid it. I generally tend to hike with long pants just simply because of brushing up against poison ivy or stinging nettles, which is another summertime bane of of hikers. But then also uh another, uh not really a danger but nuisance are um yellow jackets. Yellow jacket nests tend to be on the edges of a trail, sometimes near a water source. You go by, usually the first two hikers get by, the third hiker has alerted, and when they come out of that nest, and it's a ground nest, when they come out of the nest, they come out in a bunch.
SPEAKER_02Oh, that's a good point.
SPEAKER_01So again, long pants kind of at least will keep them at bay until you can run a little bit ahead. Once you get out of their range, then you're okay. Um, I mean, I've had them get up up the cuff of the pants and getting getting stung on the legs. Uh, but that's you know, the other thing with ticks is there's a product called Promethrin. It's a little spray. You can get it at REI, you can get it at Walmart. It's a spray, and you can pre-treat your your clothes. Like I would pretreat from knee down on my pants. Just spray them. Really? Let them dry, and that will last through several washings, and it will repel ticks and other insects. So that's that's a pretty good way of just making sure that you know your you know, ticks they will avoid permethrin. They uh the the only caveat that I know of is you don't want to treat uh clothing like a like a t-shirt or something like that. It's going to be close to your skin, but you know, pants, legs, and things like that. Oh wow, that's good too.
SPEAKER_02I hadn't thought about uh long pants, but that's really a good idea, especially now that you can get really good lightweight hiking clothing. Good lightweight long pants, probably a smart idea.
SPEAKER_01And I, you know, you can get the convertible pants. They have a zip around. And so if you're in an open area and it is warm, you can zip them off and have shorts. But then if you get to an area where, you know, there's a lot of brush up against the trail or something like that, you can just zip them back on and uh you know, so the convertible pants.
SPEAKER_02You know, while we're on that subject, Steve, uh what kind of hiking shoe do you wear? There was a new shoe that came out mainly for through hikers on the Appalachian Trail, and there was like a low-cut tennis shoe, but it was a hiking shoe. Where are you now on boots and shoes?
SPEAKER_01I still have a pair of hiking boots that come up, oh, you know, ankle ankle high, just a little bit higher, not not low like a like a sneaker. Right. Um and it has a pretty good tread on it, but it has a wide toe box, and that's yeah, that's why I like that. Good point. I've had um Keene's, oboe's, Merrill's. I've tried a lot of them. I like I like the oboe's, but uh now I really like the uh it's called Topo, T-O-P-O, Topo boots. And they also make a low, low cut. I like a sturdy tread because when you're on rocks and things like that. Um the ones that you described, like the ultras and um they tend more like a trail running shoe. Yes. Or a sometimes it's called a trail shoe. I've I've tried them. They're so light, to me, I feel every rock right through the sole. And I I prefer um something a little sturdier. Yeah, like you say, there are folks out there who are hiking the whole through hiking the Appalachian Trail, and they're they're in what we would consider to be, you know, just uh uh a lightweight trail shoe. Um I like the support that you get from the yes.
SPEAKER_02I like a little ankle support. You know, of course my ankles are probably maybe weaker than the through hikers, but uh I've I like to support my legs and feet as much as I can. I I was just kind of curious about one last thing um that you might see on the trail. I I I will I'd bet money right now that Steve's seen this more than once, and that's bears on the trail. Yes, yes. When I see a bear, and I've seen a few hiking, I know you have, I just think of that as a bonus to my hike.
SPEAKER_01Yes. And I it it they'll run away. I mean now you can do things. I always have a little a whistle on my on my pack. Um you make yourself as big as you can be, you know, put your arms up over your head, make noise. Uh if you don't have a whistle, just bark like a dog, just make noise. The bears will run away. What you want to be aware of, if you see a bear and it's ahead either on the trail or off the trail, look around and make sure that there's not it's not a mama bear with some cubs. You don't want to be between the mama bear and the cubs. So look around and and if you see the cubs are up ahead, just like the mama bear, you're okay. Make yourself big, make some noise, they'll run away. You don't want to be between. But I've I've been hiking, particularly in the smokies, and you'll crest a little top of a rise, a bear will just be up in a tree. What amazes me is they will slide down out of the tree to get away from you. I said, just stay in the tree. I'm not gonna climb up there after you, you know. Sometimes it'll be you'll you'll see the mama bear come down, and then one cub, two cub, or three cubs, and off over the hill they go, and you'll never see them again. Yes. Um I think it's it's rare that uh again, you don't run because you don't want the bear to think that it's something that they should chase. Right. Um I've only had one bear encounter where I couldn't get the bear to move. And the reason was uh we of the three of us were hiking, and uh Janice, my wife, was was one uh of that, and then one other person, and we blew whistles, we made noise, and that bear just would not budge off the trail, it's right on the trail. And so finally the bear moved off the trail, and I'd looked and okay, make sure it's far enough off, then we're just gonna walk slowly on the trail. Well, we got up to where the bear was, and it was sitting about maybe 20, 30 feet off the trail at the base of a tree, and then we hit the yellow jacket nest that it had been digging into.
SPEAKER_02Oh, God.
SPEAKER_01And so then we had to run while they're stinging us, and that's why the bear wouldn't move because the bear was eating. Yeah. And um, they love to dig into a yellow jacket nest. And I guess they eat the larva. The yellow jackets don't sting through the bear's fur. I guess maybe around their nose or tongue, maybe, but uh it doesn't seem to bother them. And I thought, well, this is great. Now we're running. That bear finally just we we got past enough and uh looked back, and the bear was still just sitting there, I'm sure laughing at us. Yeah, really. But that was the only time that we had an encounter that was a little bit out of the ordinary. But um, yeah, I I I agree with you. Um it's just neat to see the bears, and um I just they're gonna be gone before a lot of times you don't really the first or two people might see them in a group, and then by the time you look, they're gone.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. Well, the last thing I'll mention before we get into some trails, I started seeing them more and more, and that's uh coyotes. Uh I'm seeing those on the trail a little bit more. I've never been bothered at all by them. You know, I read things that say, well, just be aware because mainly because of rabies or any diseases they may cause.
SPEAKER_01So I've seen one coyote and it was off in the woods, and I looked and thought, well, I see a dog, but I don't see a a hiker. Yeah. And then I rallies, wait a minute, it it it is a coyote, but it was it was going on, and they tend to be nocturnal anyway, so you're not really gonna see them. The only other animal I've had an encounter with are uh the the wild the wild hogs. Um really saw three of them kind of on a ridge, just kind of walking along, and we were a little bit below the ridge on the trail, and we just stopped and just made sure that they were moving on, didn't really take notice of us of us. And then the other time was um there was one right standing in the trail. And there were three or four of us in the group. We got whistles, we blew whistles, and it it wasn't gonna go anywhere until it was ready to go somewhere, and it finally just went off the trail and uh didn't bother us.
SPEAKER_02Well, now where were you?
SPEAKER_01What that was in the smokies. That was uh in the smokies, yes. They've got wild hogs and and the feral pigs, boars. They're they're quite frequent through there. You can usually tell if you're in the area where they are because they will plow uh all along the trail, uh I guess getting robs and things like that. I mean, though they really tear up the the the forest floor. They have some they have traps that they've uh you know tried to trap them, but I've had rangers tell me we'll never get rid of them. They're they're all over here and they're uh they're the boars that were brought in for hunting years and years ago before the park. And then they've also uh uh they're the feral pigs that are right right in there too. So yeah, they're there.
SPEAKER_02Well, what do you know? I've never seen them. All right, dusty trails.
SPEAKER_01Okay. What do you got? Well, uh, where do you want to start? Close to home? Yeah, let's do that. Okay, a couple a couple close to home. Um I will I want to mention Lake James State Park. Now I know that's kind of that's that's very front country, but you can put together some really nice short loops if you want and link together. But the one I like, there is a uh near the visitor center, the new visitor center, right in the center of the park at Paddy's Creek. They have a section of the Fonta Flora uh State Trail that right below the visitor center, and there's this beautiful bridge that goes across I think they call it the long arm of the lake. And I call it the the long arm section of the Fonta Flora there. And you can go about seven miles on that trail to the Linville River parking area. Yes. Now we've done that where we've used a car shuttle and just you know go over seven miles. But if you want a nice long hike, then I would put a uh I would I would start at the Linville River and hike to the visitor center. That way you could refill your water at the visitor center, so you're not carrying as much water. You can sit down there, have a snack, cool off inside if it's a warm day, and then just reverse course and go back to your car. You get a 14-mile hike in. Yeah, take it an out and back. That it it's a it's a really nice trail too. It's well graded, not any hazards of any sort. You get glimpses of the lake along the way. I I like that. So that that would be one, uh just just close to home. The other, um, in the Old Fort area, the gateway trail system. Yes, that is the Ferris Creek Road. A whole series of loops, and they keep adding more trails. You can get six to eight miles in just by linking together several of the loop trails, but then you can also uh they have the deep cove trail and Jarrett Creek Road, and you can take deep, you can take deep cove. Uh one way is three miles, and it'll take you from the parking area to up on Jarrett Creek Road, but then from there you can follow the road a little bit, tie in with the other gateway trails. They've got one call, a loop called the Catawba View Trail. You can get eight, ten miles easily just by linking together, all from one parking lot. So there's no car shuttles or anything. So, really, the I I like the flexibility of those trails that you can link together. The other is um doubt at Mill Creek Road, Bernard Mountain off of the Point Lookout Trail. And you can make a loop out of that. Bernard Mountain is about three miles, and I think it's um what do I have here for that? About close to a thousand feet of elevation gain. So you get a good workout in that three miles. He puts you out on a Forest Service Road that takes you to Mill Creek Road. Yes. Then you can go um continue up Mill Creek Road to Ridgecrest and then come down Point Lookout Trail, and you'll get about a 10-mile loop in that way. I like that there are plenty of opportunities just close to home in Old Fort. Gosh, if if it's not the camp season for Camp Greer, which is Memorial Day to Labor Day, you can also link together the Gateway Trails and Copper Ridge with the Rostan Trail, which goes through that's the one trail in uh Camp Greer that is open to the public. Except during camp season. Oh it is. Okay. So you can you can link right in and uh get a really good uh good good hike in there.
SPEAKER_02Now I this used to be my loop which I'm gonna ask your opinion on because I don't recommend it anymore. I used to hike out of the old fork campground. I would hike up the Kitsuma Trail and then get on the point lookout and come back down. I I'm saying now, especially if you're from out of town and you're a hiker, Kitsuma is more of a bike trail now, don't you think?
SPEAKER_01A downhill bike trail. Yes. When I do that, and that was my go-to hike during COVID. It was close by. I could, and I would get an early start. That's the key to it, I think, is if you get an early start from the picnic, O4 picnic area, go up Kitsuma, and I would say go up Kitsuma because the cyclists are coming down. You can see them. There are a couple blind curves though. You do have to be, you know, on your toes. But um, I would, if I got an early start, you might see three or four cyclists, and that's all. Um, if you wait till the afternoon, then you're gonna be dodging them or they're gonna be dodging you. I will say that almost all the cyclists that I've encountered have been courteous. They they're looking out for you just like you're looking out for them. But I agree with you. Yeah, do you have a little roadwalk to get around to Point Lookout and coming down Point Lookout? That's why I, you know, say do Bernard Mountain. Yeah, yeah, and then and Mill Creek Road and then come down Point Lookout. You'll see some cyclists on Bernard Mountain as well. But um, as I say, you know, there's there's that trail etiquette of yielding uh cyclist yield to hikers, and cyclists and hikers yield to if it's an equestrian trail for the horse. I'm not gonna get an argument with a horse. I'm gonna stay out of the way. No, no, but um, you just have to pick the right time of day if you're gonna do a very popular uh mountain biking trail like Kitsuma. And it is a workout going up Kitsuma. It is.
SPEAKER_02It is a uh in fact, I took a trail building class and we had to clean up some spots on that trail that were washed out and that sort of thing, just about kill me. My point is there are so many good trails available to you if you're a visitor, especially. Locals already know, probably. And if you don't listen to this broadcast, and you will. If you want a quiet, peaceful hike, there are lots of trails other than Kitsuma. Right, you're right that we could go on. I want to go back before we go on. This gateway trail system, the beauty of that is you go to the parking lot, you can decide I want to do three miles today or I want to do six miles, you can build your trail system, your hike, however you want it to go. Yes. And it's an enjoyable hike no matter what you do.
SPEAKER_01That's right.
SPEAKER_02As I recall, you don't have to backtrack to do that, do you?
SPEAKER_01No, no, you can you can you can start just putting putting trails together to make a like a continuous loop. Yeah. Um, you might want to cut off a little piece on a on a connector trail and then come come around. Um, you can always reverse the loop if you want. Uh yeah so there's yeah, there's lots of lots of opportunities for, like you say, decide how many miles do I want to do today, how much time do I have, and then use the map. And and and these maps, um, I mean, you can get the gateway trail map right right online. They also have on the kiosk, they've got, you know, the big map on the kiosk where you can look at it. And and then a lot of people use the apps that uh have the maps on them. Yes. Whether it's all trails or Gaia or something like that, um, that that have it on there on so they could just have it right on their phones. Uh that's okay. I like to carry a paper map. Um, I'm old school. I never know when the battery is gonna totally give out my phone. I do track on my phone. Uh, I use all trails and I'll run a track, but I will know before I set foot on the trail, I I've already looked at it on the map. A lot of times I'll take a marker, I'll mark it. So I can kind of visualize, okay, this is how the the route I'm taking. And then when I'm on the ground and I'm looking ahead and say, okay, I should be coming up to a junction in another mile or so, and sure enough, there's my junction. And I'm I know I'm gonna go left on the junction or right or whatever. I do I do my homework before I get out on the trail.
SPEAKER_02That's the point right there. That I really want to drive home on this podcast because I know for a fact that we have people that listen to us that will be coming in from out of state and they're gonna want to hike. If it's just you and your significant other, your hiking buddy, or whatever, or you got some kids in the car, don't just pull in and say, hey, let's go for a hike. No time ever, and I know Steve will agree, no time ever should you set foot on any trail without a bottle of water. Oh, absolutely. Yeah, and yet it's done all the time.
SPEAKER_01It's done all the time.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01One of the hikes I've done several times is Charlie's Bunyan out in uh Great Smoky Mountain South Park. It leads right out of Newfound Gap, which is this huge parking area. It's right on the state line, lots of people, and and the Appalachian Trail just takes off from there. And it's four miles to Charlie's Bunyan, which is a beautiful outcrop, rock, great views, and everything, but it's four miles in. We have been hiking. You start right uphill on the Appalachian Trail from from the parking area, and you'll see kind of we're kind of usually coming back and we're seeing people, yeah, it's it's already late in the afternoon, and we're seeing people starting out, they've got they've got sandals or flip-flops on. Oh, yes. No water, and they'll ask you, how far is it to a view? Yes. And think about where you are. It is it is four miles to the great view. Now there are little glimpses here and there, but this is a steep rocky trail, and you don't have good footwear on, you can get a beautiful view from the parking lot and save yourself some trouble. Excellent point. Yeah, there's preventive search and rescue, PSAR. And that's exactly what both volunteers and the PSAR Rangers and the Smokies do. They go to where the people are, and if they see they try to try to engage people in a conversation and say, you know, what's your plan? Oh, we just want to get out and hike a little bit. Well, and they try to just say, okay, your foot would you have water? Look at your footwear. Um, do you know how far you want to go? What are you looking for? And it what they try to do is steer people away from making a poor judgment and get too far in, and then it's starting to get dark and they have to come back out. They don't have a flashlight. Um, they say, I've got a f I've got a light on my phone. Well, you've already used some battery, and then that light is going to drain more. Don't count on that. Uh so yeah, there's just a lot of common sense that you know you just need to keep in mind where you are, and that's why I like to do the homework first so I know where I'm going and what I'm doing.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. I think if you're the kind of hiker that is used to putting on a day pack, you probably are already agreeing with all the points that Steve brings out. If you just think that you want to go out and get a view, like Steve said, the mountains of western North Carolina and eastern Tennessee and that area, they're alluring. There's a lot of beautiful scenery that you can see, but it's like a Venus flytrap. By the time you get to the view, you may be too far in. That's it, yes. And it goes from uncomfortable to dangerous real quick. It does. So we we'll get off of uh we'll quit playing the fiddle here. And what else you got, Steve?
SPEAKER_01What else? Well, one of the most popular areas uh to to hike is Linville Gorge.
SPEAKER_02Oh, yes, okay.
SPEAKER_01Um I I have uh a lot of respect for the gorge because it is steep, it is rocky, it is a wilderness area, so trails are not blazed as much as um other areas. Yeah, it's not for the ill-equipped, ill-prepared. The one that is most accessible is Short Off Mountain.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_01We did that, uh, the McDowell Trails did that in April, but we did a little bit differently. Um, it's a private road that takes you to the trailhead. It's a road that goes through private property, let me put it that way. But it is an access road. And at the end of the road, then you're on Forest Service property, the grandfather district, and you can park there, but you can't park anywhere along the road that's a private property. And so that parking lot gets filled up, especially on weekends. I mean, unless you're there very early, you're not gonna have a parking place. They put in a parking lot down on uh uh North Carolina 126, and it's called the Wolf Pit Parking Area.
SPEAKER_02Which is very nice.
SPEAKER_01It's very nice. We park there and then had one shuttle up to the trailhead. So it's about two and a half miles the end of Wolf Pit Road, and that's where you can start your hike, but your car's down at the parking area. So you might have one car at the top, or if you can engage a shuttle and have someone shuttle you up there. But then you can do your hike, you get up to uh short off and take in the views, you know, have a snack. When you come back down, instead of going back to the trailhead, go down the mountain to sea trail. Oh, you can't do and then take the connector trail. It's the mountains to sea, font of flora connector trail, otherwise known as the blue dot trail because it's blazed with a blue dot. And it is a really nice trail. You get down right along the river. You can then just it kind of undulates along, and then it'll come out at Wolf Pit Road, and you have maybe a hundred yards down to your car. So it makes a makes a really nice about six and a half to seven mile partial loop. You do have to have that shuttle in there to get you up there. But to me, that saves all the angst and worry of gee, we're gonna get up there and there's not gonna be any parking, and then I gotta change plans. So I really enjoyed that. As a matter of fact, I enjoyed the connector trail even more than the short off because short off trail is steep and rocky. And well traveled. And very well traveled, yeah. There's gonna be a crowd there. So let's move a little further out.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01A trail I really like is uh the Tanawa Trail. The Tanawa Trail is um in Blue Ridge Parkway up 221 and go north on the parkway. The trail starts at the Beacon Heights parking area. It's in the area of Grandfather Mountain. And the nice thing about it, it's a 14-mile trail, 13.8 miles, something like that. We'll call it 13, 14 miles. There are several places along the parkway where it comes right down to one of the pull-offs, one of the parking areas, you know, the uh overlooks. Yes. If you want to do the whole thing, then I would you definitely want to do a car shuttle. If not, you can pick where you want to start and where put a car at one of the pull-offs. What's nice about it is Beacon Heights, just in itself, when you get to the Beacon Heights, there is a trail that goes up to a beautiful overlook looking down into the Wilson Creek Valley. Oh, really? It's really nice. But then you you come off of that and you get on the Tanawa Trail. It's also co-signed with the Mountains of Sea Trail, so it's all part of the MST system as well. The blaze for the Tanawa Trail is a white feather and it's very well marked.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You also see the MST white circle blaze as well. Sure. It goes under the Lin Cove Viaduct. So there is a parking area at Linn Cove, uh, the viaduct, before you before you get to the viaduct on the parkway, there's a Lin Cove visitor, used to be a visitor center. I think it's closed now, but uh the parking area is still there. So the trail takes you under the the viaduct and then goes up through through the rocks. Um gosh, then it goes up to rough rough ridge, which has a series of boardwalks. Yeah, yeah, we've hiked that. Yeah. And so that's if you want to do three or four miles, maybe that's a good place. If you want to continue on, it will take you all the way up to Price Lake and the Julian Price picnic area. Yes. And so you can tailor that to how far you want to go. You just need to keep in mind, unless you're going to do in and out, have two cars where you can put one car up at a parking area. You know where you're going to come out. You can get an online map of the Tanawa Trail. As a matter of fact, I printed one uh right offline and and uh online. And uh it's it's a neat trail. Um, has lots of different characteristics. As I say, you've got the the the rock over the beautiful views from Rough Ridge.
SPEAKER_02Uh yes, Janet and I have hiked from the from the visitor center up toward Rough Ridge.
SPEAKER_01Yes. You get that iconic view looking back toward Grandfather Mountain, the viaduct. Yes. And if you go in early October is usually when the leaves are kind of in peak there. Yeah. Early to mid and um October. Beautiful. So you can go again, that's another one of those where you can say, how far do I want to hike? Well, how much time do I have? It's one of my favorites. It's it's really is a neat trail. So but you do have to do your you know planning for your shovels, things like that.
SPEAKER_02Uh now I would rate this, you you correct me if I'm wrong. I would call this a high intermediate. Yes. Just because really because of the isolation when you're on the trail. Because if you did get hurt, you might get lucky. There may be another hiker in there, but you're kind of isolated in the right.
SPEAKER_01Anything from Beacon Heights, Lin Cove, up to Rough Ridge, you're gonna encounter several. That's a very popular portion that that's hiked. Once you get past that, then you're gonna see fewer and fewer. And then when you get up toward Price Lake, that area, you're gonna encounter more people. But yeah, that's that's a that's a good point.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. All right. Keep going.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Well, just while we're while we're at Price Lake, you you know this one, Boon Fork Loop. Oh gosh, yes. Um, it's only a five-mile loop. I said only. That's what it is, five miles. But it can be muddy, it can be rocky, many stream crossings. It's a nice loop. It gets crowded because it's right there at that picnic area is where the trail begins. You can do it clockwise or counterclockwise. I would want to do it in in a drier season. I would have been where, I mean, you're gonna be up to your ankles in mud, and there's no way around. But it's um it's okay. I would I would do it counterclockwise so that way your high point comes toward the end of the hike, and there's a little spur that goes up to a knoll, and you can have your lunch looking right at Grandfather Mountain.
SPEAKER_02Correct.
SPEAKER_01And then you come back down and finish out your hike.
SPEAKER_02But there again, there's a trail, especially that if you're a visitor, don't just pile out of the car and take off. Because it's surprising, there's a lot of variety in the terrain on that trail.
SPEAKER_01And there's there's a little ladder that goes up uh through some rocks. Yeah. Um there's at least two or three stream crossings that are not bridged. So if it's been rainy, then you've got higher water levels. Um it's one I've done a few times. There are a lot of other trails that I would repeat rather than that one, I guess. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Uh but it's always good to do it once.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes. Absolutely. And it do it one direction one time and reverse the loop another time. It's it's almost like a different hike.
SPEAKER_02And really, if you're especially if you're visiting, uh a good way to kill two birds with one stone is to go to the Moses Cone visitor area. Right. Because you can go into the Moses Cone house there. And there are plenty of good trails, but you need to really be aware of your etiquette if you're hiking Moses Cone because lots of horses. Lots of horses. Yeah, you're right. And they know that they have the right-of-especially the horse does. Yes. So that's a good one.
SPEAKER_01Okay, let's see. Um Montreat Trails. Okay, great. Montreat is is convenient. It's easy to get to. Parking lots can get a little bit full, especially for for some of the trails. Um Greybeard is probably the most Greybeard Mountain is is the most popular trail. They had a lot of Helene damage though. So even getting to the trailhead, I think, is I've not been since Helene. It's closed for quite some time. I think the road is open now. I would check in with their uh their little front country uh hiking backcountry office or whatever. It's a pretty strenuous hike. It's nine and a half miles. It it's more strenuous than you think it's going to be. It starts out, it's a pretty hike along Flat Creek, then it starts climbing. You do have a spur trail out, Walker Knob, which gives you a nice view down toward the town of Montreat. And then if you go to the top, uh you do get to the top of uh Greybeard and you get a view of the Black Mountains and uh and so on, Craggy Dome. There are a lot of other trails in their trail system. There's a there's an East Ridge Trail, Lookout Rocks, that's that's pretty popular, again, though it has steep rock, rocky sections. Anything that goes from the valley floor, that which is where you're driving in and where you're parking, that goes up to the rims is going to be short and steep. Yes. And uh and rocks, and so be prepared for a stiff climb right out of the chute. Yeah. And then once you're up on the rim, it undulates. Um, the east rim is a little more accessible and has places to come down. The west rim is it's much more remote and a lot of steep, sharp climbs. You're going over the Seven Sisters. Yes. There. So that's right. That's uh I would uh I would make sure you have some hiking experience if you're going to use that West Rim. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Uh however, I would say that in general the trail footing in Montreat is quite good. It is good, yes. Uh I don't know what the Hurricane has done.
SPEAKER_01But I they they take care of the trails there. Yes, they do. They do. And uh again, you can you can pick up a trail map right there at the uh the little hiking office there, uh right there at the Montreat store. Lots of good hiking there.
SPEAKER_02While we're talking about that, give me again the website for McDowell Trails if people just want to contact you.
SPEAKER_01McDowellTrails.org.
SPEAKER_02McDowellTrails.org.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. We are consistently adding more and more trails. Now there is a new uh Destination McDowell, which is our uh TDA. Yes. Uh their visitor center is an old fort. The MTA worked with Destination McDowell on producing a uh McDowell County Trail Guide. There is a QR code on the back for additional trail information, McDowell Trails Association. So we are going to take this map and the trails that are on this that we don't have a write-up on, we're gonna be adding, you know, over the next couple months, adding more trails so that when you look at this map and say, okay, this looks like a good trail. How about this uh foundation trail? Well, then you could click on it, get on uh MTA website, we would have, you know, the the foundation trail, you know, just look it up. Cool. Um so yeah, that's a that's a good one. Um this is brand new, it's hot off the press. I think it's only about two weeks old. Oh, that's nice looking. Available at the uh at the destination McDowell visitor center.
SPEAKER_02You still plan hikes as a trail group.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_02If someone from and this is my plug to the our out-of-town visitors, they would be welcome to hike with us. Absolutely, yes.
SPEAKER_01Yes. We we choose our hikes for the year. This year we're doing a little trail passport, so if you choose to do that, you can get a stamp after each hike. We then put the details out about the hike, usually two or three weeks ahead of the hike, where we're gonna meet, what time, uh anything you need to know about the hike, um you know, elevation gain, distance, things like that. We tend to not make them too strenuous because the purpose is to get people out on the trail and introduce people to hike. So but we did do the short off connector in April, and uh so there was there was some, you know, that that's moderately strenuous, I would say. Yeah. But we'll uh yeah, we and we put it also put a lot on Facebook too, on our Facebook page. So through social media and then through our uh our email network and website, you can pretty much you know find out where we're hiking next.
SPEAKER_02Let me ask you this. I'm gonna put you on the spot. Let's say that I am a visitor, or let's say that I'm a local and I'm just tired of hiking the greenway. You know, I want to do a trail. Can you take like an email and somebody emails you and says, Hey Steve, I'm a moderate to advanced hiker. I'm here for a week. Where could I go? Can you do that?
SPEAKER_01We can yeah, we could we could point them to some resources that they could use. Or to some trails. It's not necessarily a hike we would sponsor. Right. But we could get them connected up, either through the visitor center in Old Fort, give them a few resources, some websites that they could use. One of the things was the All Trails app, wherever you are, when you open up that app, when it comes up, it's going to immediately have trails in your area. Yes. That's right. That's right. Wherever you are, then you can you can find some that way. But it if they wanted some local information, absolutely, yeah. And they could just reach us through either through our website. Let's see, now you put me on the spot, mtatrails at gmail.com. Yeah. M T A Trails at Gmail. Okay. So you know they could you know just say, hey, we're here for you know a week, you know, what can we do? And and we could then say, well, you know, what are you looking for? You looking for views, waterfalls, what have you, and and go from there.
SPEAKER_02What does it cost to be a member of the Trail Association? 25 a year. A year. Yes. Annual, $25.
SPEAKER_01Two bucks a month. Yep, there you go. Plus change. Plus change.
SPEAKER_02And that would be on your website. People can join. Yeah, they can join through that. Yes. You know, I think one of the best things, and and I just I just had this brilliant idea. If I'm a visitor here and I and I'm a hiker, maybe one of the best things to do is to if you're lucky enough to be here when MTA is sponsoring a hike, what a great way. Sure. I mean you're safe. You're amongst friends, and I and I can guarantee you that you may be a stranger for the first five minutes, but that'll be the end of it. That's right. Yep. Uh and you'll enjoy the hike. You'll enjoy it. That's right. And you have on all your hikes, I know that you have all levels of hikers. We do, yes. So an old guy like me that's lagging behind, I don't have to worry because every once in a while you'll wait for me.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes, yes, absolutely. And we always we have a sweep that you know is is the last one. One one of an MTA member will be the sweep, whether that's that's the last person on the trial. Oh, really? You stay be you stay between the hike leader and the sweep. And that way you don't lose anybody. And uh I didn't know that. That's great. Yeah, that's um there and the other thing uh you know talk about you know when hiking in groups, yeah, you need a leader, you need a sweep, and everybody stay between. If you get to a trail junction, you stop until everybody gets there, and then this is the direction we're going. Because I've been with groups sometimes where they just the the whoever's at the front, they just keep going. And if you've if you're five minutes, ten minutes behind, and you get to that junction and you look around and say, Well, which way? Yeah, which way do they go? So, yeah, you always wait at junctions. And the other thing is when you stop for a water break, if some people, you know, they have to get their pack, you know, have to get their water bottle out of their pack or something like that. So they have to stop. You're at the front of the pack and you've got your water and everything, and then you know, a few minutes later, here come, maybe maybe five or ten minutes later, here comes the last person. What you don't do is say, Okay, we can go now. Yeah, right. No, give that person, though that group that came in, give them the break too, that the folks at the front. Or if you have a uh someone that you you know and trust that knows the way and say, okay, we're gonna move on ahead, you take your little break here and and we'll catch up at lunch or whatever. So but yeah, there's just some things to do to make sure that everybody is safe, everybody feels included, and as part of the group in the hike, and because part of it is just the camaraderie of being out and talking with people and you're sharing your part of the world with them if they're visiting. Yeah. So you want to you want to make them feel welcome.
SPEAKER_02You know, I think that's just a great way, regardless. What a great way to visit a community. You know, you get to know the people. I didn't know that about the sweeper. So if you are hiking with the McDowell Trails sponsored hike, you can relax and feel safe and enjoy the hike. Absolutely. You you guys aren't going to be critical if I'm moving too slow or I get a little antsy or a little afraid, you're gonna take care of that. We'll take care of you. All right. What else you got, Steve?
SPEAKER_01What else? Well, as a matter of fact, tomorrow I'm doing this hike. Okay, it's up at Rone Mountain. Oh, okay. It is to me one of the most beautiful hikes. Yes, it's a little bit of a drive. You go Spruce Pine, Bakersville, and go up to Carver's Gap, which is on the North Carolina-Tennessee border.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01And everything for Roan Mountain is south on the AT, because the AT cross is right there. But you're gonna cross the road and go north on the Appalachian Trail. It's about a um six, you could make it a little bit longer if you wanted, about six miles out and back from Carver's Gap out to um Grassy Ridge Bald. You're going over two other balds to get there. There's Jane Bald, other bald, you go over there, round bald, I think. Round bald, I think that's it. And so you've got these views all around you. You're and you're going through, yeah, part of the time you're in the woods, but a lot of the time you're you're going over these grassy balds, and then you take a uh a right off of the AT on a spur trail, and it takes you out to Grassy Ridge Ball. Yes. And some nice rock outcrops there. Great place to stop and have lunch or a snack, depending upon what time you started. And then you just you you come back the same way. If you then want to extend it, you could go south on the AT and climb up to uh the Roan Knob Shelter, which is one of the AT shelters. I believe it is the highest shelter on the AT. I'm not too sure about that, but it's pretty close. You're over 6,000 feet. So you're you're uh and you're in the forest there. Yeah, you're in a spruce.
SPEAKER_02Well, I do know that when you start the Carver's Gap height, you're at 5512. 5512, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01So I know that that's and Grassy Ridge Bald is one of the is a uh little over 6,000 feet. So yeah, you're doing some climbing there. That's about um 1,200 feet of elevation gain by the time you go up and over the balds, both directions. Um it's it's a beautiful hike. Uh I'm looking forward to it. Uh, should have good weather tomorrow. So and I've not been up there in in a few years. Well, you know the legend of the rhododendron up there, right?
SPEAKER_02I don't know that I know the legend. There was a time when it was just native people in the land. There were two warring tribes. One was the Cherokee. I can't remember offhand, I have it written somewhere what the other tribe was. And they went to war on top of Rhone Mountain, and there was so much blood from that war that it forever turned the rhododendron red. Red. How about that? Yeah. Now there's another legend uh which uh you might get to witness this tomorrow. Uh you probably already know this, but I'm gonna tell you for the benefit of those listening. There are a lot of rocks and cave-like structures up around Rhone Mountain. Rhone Mountain is a mysterious place in and of itself. But as the wind moves around Rhone Mountain, it is said that that's when the spirits of those Indians are heard, and they will cry and you can hear them during your hideout. So listen, Steve.
SPEAKER_01I'll be listening. I'll be listening.
SPEAKER_02And if you don't hear them, just say you did.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02You know, you can tell everybody.
SPEAKER_01And you can also drive up to a parking lot off, you know, turning off the road. What is it? There's the there was an old hotel up there. I think there's a site of that. But there are the rhododendron gardens. Yeah. You could walk through that. Um, and that's just another option while you're up there. Um but uh yeah, that's the one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and that's that's beautiful. And there again, if you're a visitor and you're not a hiker, what a great spot. Rhododendron are not in bloom now, I don't think. Yeah, I think it's later. Oh well, that we're into June.
SPEAKER_01We're well into June, yeah. So I'm trying to think when the Rhododendron Festival is. It's sometime late June, I think. So it might be a little bit early. It could be. Um I might see some early.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. But with or without the flowers, the views are fantastic. Yeah. W when you get up to Jane Ball, and now everybody has a camera with a panoramic shot, you can take a panorama of that area and that. I guess you're looking maybe at Tennessee.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you're and you're looking right, looking back from the way you came, you're looking right at Ron Heinb. Yes. So you you see that. Oh, it's just it's beautiful. I mean, it's a great thing. You've got 360-degree views. And the the grassy ball, the balls are really unique.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, they're they're just uh let me let me tell you another legend of the b balls. There there are some different points of view, and none have been substantiated, uh, which is what I like to talk about, things that can't be substantiated. One theory is that back in prehistoric times that dinosaurs roamed the earth and that the Blue Ridge Mountains were covered in trees, like we know, you know. But the dinosaurs m moved up to the balls and they ate all the vegetation that was all leveled out and it became the balls. Now there's another story which might have some credence, and that is that when the Scots came over, the Scottish people, they actually cleared the land early for the sheep because they wanted the mountains to look like Scotland. Uh and so they cleared it and and had sheep on the land and it never grew back. And there we have the balls. Have you hiked on the Appalachian Trail? There's a point called Little Hump and Big Hump.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yes, right.
SPEAKER_02Is that beautiful or what?
SPEAKER_01That's that would be uh if if yeah, that I've done that several times. Um yeah, you go out of Little Switzerland, go up to uh You come out of Roaring Creek, don't you? Roaring Creek or Roaring Fork Road, Roaring Creek Road. Yeah. And yeah, you go to the end of the road and a little access trail that goes right up to the AT. Yes. Um the uh the old barn that was the AT shelter, that's been decommissioned. That no longer Oh, no kidding. Yeah, it was just structurally unsound, and so that's been decommissioned. But you go again, let's say we're going north on the AT, and you go little hump, big hump. Yes. Um beautiful. And again, 360 degree. Another one if you want a bald and you want to uh hike out of Sam Gap. Okay up on uh we're right on the North Carolina, Tennessee line on I-26. You have to get off the exit before you get to the the top and drive around and and park. You can get on the AT, you can hike to uh it's about a 12, 13 mile in and out, but um make Big Bald your destiny. Oh, really? And it is that's another one of those 360-degree views, you're just you're on a great, you're just uh a bald. Uh it's funny too because there are a lot of places in the mountains where it has the name bald, but it's not bald anymore. You know, the the forest is taking it over. That's right. Um, like Siler's Bald in the Smokies. You think okay, another another bald. You hike out the Appalachian Trail from um from uh Kubohee, what used to be called Klingman's Dome. Yes. And you go out the AT and you get to Siler's Bald, and there are a lot of trees. So it's uh a lot of the balds are are are no longer bald. Forest is reclaiming them. I think the Park Service maintains two balds in the Great Smoky Mountains National Park, Andrew's Bald and Gregory Bald. Otherwise, it's just nature is going to do its thing.
SPEAKER_02Well, and I think that's a shame for those of you that are not hikers in our area. When we talk about a bald, if you don't know what that is, uh and Steve, you you back me up here. Those of you that can remember the opening scenes of the sound of music, and uh that woman, Maria, is just twirling around in this grassy, beautiful area, and you can see the whole world below her. That's what I think a bald is. Do you agree with that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it gives you the feeling that you're above the tree line. Yes. Just because there are no trees there. Yeah. Um, because we essentially don't have tree lines in our in our application. We're not high enough. But um uh yeah, that's that's it. It's um, yeah, they're they're unique places. I can say they're used for uh grazing animals in the summer. They would drive the cattle up and then come, you know, when when winter was coming, they would take them back down into the valleys. Uh but yeah, um they're they're great.
SPEAKER_02I I'm gonna give you and and I'm making this broadcast open in case we want to tell war stories. So I'm gonna give you a war story. I hiked up to Little Hump and Big Hump with uh, I think about four, three or four guys. I had been up there numerous times on top of the balls. It was gonna be an overnighter. The other three had not, and they wanted to see the view and stuff, so they went on out of our campsite. We found where we're gonna overnight. And I was trying, I was experimenting with hammock camping at the time. So I went to the campsite, got the fire going, and I set up my hammock, took my boots off and got in the hammock, and I use a hammock that is a two-person hammock because I like a little move-around room. So I got in there and laid back, and the hammock just closed up over me over the top. I heard some noise, and I thought it was the guys coming back into the campsite, and it got closer and closer, but I didn't hear any words. I raised up out of the campsite, and about 20 feet away, a mama bear stood up on her hind legs and was looking at me. And I'm thinking, what do I do now? Because there are lots of ways to avoid a bear, but looking like a big burrito stretched between two trees is not one of them. She just looked at me and her cub was milling around down below. He never got interested, he or she. And she just sniffed a little bit and went on away. Which is typical. Yeah. You know, they're not there to bother you, but that's my actually one of my favorite memories of big hump and little hump. So what else you got?
SPEAKER_01Okay, well, let's go to the smokies. Okay. There are uh there's over 800 miles of trails in the Smokies, so you can pretty much get anything that you want. The Appalachian Trail runs along the spine of the Smokies. Yes. The right along the Tennessee-North Carolina border for 70-some miles, 72, I think. But then, you know, there are trails all over the park. Some of my favorites, if you if you just want something short, but you like waterfalls, then in Deep Creek area, which is just outside of Bryson City, there is a three-waterfall loop you can do. You can make it as short as three miles or lengthen it out to five miles, depending upon which way you come back. But there are three Juni Wank Falls, Tom Branch Falls, and Indian Creek Falls all on that loop. And it's yeah, again, it's um six to twelve hundred feet of elevation, so there's a little bit of climbing with it in those miles. You know, just really nice waterfalls. If you want some longer hikes, there's some great ones. Cattalcci Divide.
SPEAKER_02Oh gosh, yes.
SPEAKER_01Go out I-40, get off at 270, high exit 20, and go out Cove Creek Road. And when you get to the top, you'll see the sign for the Great Smoky Mountains National Park where you did hit the park boundary. That's where the trailhead is. And it follows the park boundary. And so there you can even you can see some of the old fence posts where they they fenced off with uh and some of the old barbed wire when they uh established the park. Um, it's an out and back. You can go about 10 miles, five miles in, and you'll get to uh purchase knob. When people say purchase knob, they usually think about there's a uh a science center that was given to the uh the Smoky Zell Park, the National Park, by a family that that was their summer home right up on this this knoll. Beautiful. You could just eat on the front porch there and then hike back out. But if you want to make it a longer hike, you can continue on the trail until you get to Hemp Hill Vault. And again, another great lunch spot. Yes. By the time you get back, you've got about 14 miles in, 2,800 feet of elevation gain. So you've got you've got some real climbs there. But the Cadillae Divide Trail has some some nice views off the trail. But just the fact that you're you're going along the edge of the park and you're seeing that the old fence posts and uh that's one of my favorite trails in the smokies. I really enjoy doing that, just do a an out and back on that.
SPEAKER_02Um I I do want to interrupt you just a bit. If you are at the right time of year and you're at that science center, that meadow is chin high in wildflowers. Yes. It is just gorgeous. As they say, it is just ablaze with color. Yes. Just hiking in that meadow, and there is a trail usually that you can follow.
SPEAKER_01There's a cabin, Ferguson Cabin, which is a historic cabin that that is down there too. So you can make a little loop right out of that and get that cabin in and come right back around. Yeah, that's right.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01All right, keep going. Okay. Um, if you like wildflowers, you mentioned wildflowers. Porters Creek. No, it's on the Tennessee side of the Smokies. So if you want to put up with I-40, you have to put up with I-40 till they, you know, until it's fully open. But you go to Cosby and then you go out toward Gatlinburg. And before you get to Gatlinburg, there'll be the Greenbrier section of the park. Well, in there, Porter's Creek. It's a, let's see, what I have here, about a seven and a half mile in and out. So there's a parking area, you hike in three plus miles, and then you come back at it. Ends at a uh a campsite. Beautiful trail. Um, there's a waterfall along the way, but in the uh in the spring, there are wildflowers just all along that trail. Nice. I've got a couple uh foot logs to cross a couple creeks, not a huge amount of elevation gain. Well, 1600. The wildflowers are just gorgeous along there. It's one of the one of the wildflower hikes um that's uh known that that's fairly accessible. Again, the biggest thing is the drive out there. You're gonna spend as more time in your car going and coming than you are hiking, but you could also work in uh uh a weekend over that way and and do several trails, you know. So Ramsey Cascades, same area in that Greenbrier area. Ramsey Cascades are the tallest, it's the tallest waterfall in the park. It's about a hundred feet. So it's a tall waterfall. It's at the end of a four-mile trail. So you're eight miles out and back, 2,200 feet of elevation gain, so it's steep in places. The the very end of it, you're negotiating several large rocks to get to a place where you can sit out on the rocks and you're at this beautiful cascading waterfall. It is one of the several trails that have been that's been uh redone recently by the Trails Forever program uh in the Smokies. So uh they they completely redid the trail. So the tread is much better. Um just you know, it it's a lot it's a safer trail now. You're not negotiating the uh the the rocks as much. So and that was just completed in the last few years.
SPEAKER_02Is that a busy trail?
SPEAKER_01It's it is a popular trail. Yeah. But again, you you want to know what you're getting into. You're getting into a it is considered a strenuous hike. So um, even though the distance doesn't sound like, you know, what's eight miles, but it's 2200 feet of elevation gain in that. And so you're yeah, that's particularly at at the end of the hike, you're really doing some climbing. Uh but it's a beautiful spot. So, you know, it's a take your time, enjoy it, take some time at the uh at the waterfall. That's a great place to have lunch. Take your time coming out, and then you know, go out to dinner on the way home. Yeah. Yeah, that's uh that's my favorite part. Let's see, where else do we want to go in the smokeies? How about Mount Camera? Okay, that's a new one for that. Okay, Mount Camera is a um there's there are two or three trails that lead to it. It's off the Appalachian Trail. The one that that seems to be uh one of the one of the most popular is um you're driving to Davenport Gap, which is the northern end of the Smokies. Appalachian Trail is coming through the Smokies, and that's where you leave the Smokeys, continue north on the Appalachian Trail. It's very close to I-40. So you get off at the first Tennessee exit, exit 451. Okay, and you you kind of loop around and then you follow the road until you hit Davenport Gap. The AT sign is there. So you go south on the Appalachian Trail, about six miles, and there's a little spur trail that goes off to the uh Mount Cammerer. It is a uh civilian conservation corps project. They built a stone uh fire tower there. Oh, nice. And it's still, I mean, you can go up into it. Um, it has a about 270-degree view from that tower. Beautiful in the fall. I mean, because you're looking at these ridges extending off with uh the fall colors. The the fire lookout tower is is really neat because you see all the stonework that the the CCC did. Yes. You know, they there are several camps within the Smokies at about the time that the Smoky's the park was being developed, is about the time when the CCC was really getting underway. So yeah, it was a natural, you know, here's our workforce, and look at this blank slate we have of a park to develop. They did a lot of rock work, they built a lot of trails, they uh built the this fire tower in a particular. And again, so it's but it's a strenuous hike. It's um 12 miles out and back with about 3,200 feet of elevation gains. You're doing some stiff climbing on that that stretch of it of the Appalachian Trail. Speaking of balds, um, Gregory Bald out of Cades Cove. Yeah, oh yeah, okay. This would be the time of the year to go and do Gregory Bald because the flame, the the wildest alias, the flamest alias and the wildest alias are in bloom now. It's about 11 miles on the uh on the trail, 3,100 feet of elevation game. But again, it's a bald, you have 360-degree views. Um, you're looking right down into Cades Cove. If you've never been to Cades Cove, gosh, what a beautiful area. It really is. It's um it's it's remote though. I mean, you're you're you're doing some driving to get out to it. Townsend, Tennessee is the closest town for Cades Cove. Yes. And there's lots of other trails in that area, plus there's the 11-mile motor route that goes right through the valley. It's it's the largest valley in in the park as well. If they could just keep human beings out of there. There you go. Now, I'll tell you, if if we have a lot of people who are cyclists, um if you go on Wednesdays during the summer, it is closed to vehicles.
SPEAKER_02That's right. I had forgotten that.
SPEAKER_01You get there, get your bike off your car, you park, and you've got the loop road to yourself. Well, you've got it to yourself and all the other bikers. Now you can also walk it though. I've I've done the loop on a Wednesday, no cars. You're gonna see bears. If you want to see bears, that's the place to go. Yes. Um now that I've said that, you'll go and won't see a bear. And say, what's he talking about? Most of the time that we've been to Cate's Cove, we've seen bears. Um but anyway, that's that's um uh another bald, but the azaleas up there are gorgeous. Uh we have the flame azaleas you often see along the parkway here, the the bright orange. But the azaleas at Gregory's ball Gregory Bald are all different colors. You've got you've got white, you've got pink, you've got you know, all the other colors. So it's kind of unique. So I guess the the only other place we haven't talked about, Mount Lacan. Okay, I I wanted you to get to that. There we go. If there is an iconic hike in the Smokies, it's Mount Lacan. Yes. If it is uh well about 6,593-foot mountain near Gatlinburg. Yes. So that's that's your that's your reference point. Um there are five trails that climb up to Mount Lacan, ranging anywhere from five and a half to um seven or eight miles. Uh so you know you take your pick. Alum Cave is the shortest, it's the five and a half miles, about three thousand feet of elevation gain. So you're and that's basically your five and a half miles climbing up to that. It's moderate up to the Alum Bluffs, which is a place where years and years ago, before the park, they mined alum in that area. It's a it's a bluff, but once you get past that, you start doing some serious climbing up to up to Mount Lacant. At Mount Lacant, there are two peaks that are very popular. One is called Cliff Tops. It's a great place to watch the sunset. And the other end of the mountain is Myrtle Point, and that's a great place to watch the sunrise. Oh there is a shelter up there. If you get reservations for a shelter, that's your backpacking, you've got your your gear with you for that. But there's all there are also cabins at Mount Lacan. Right. So if you can get a reservation, uh you get your cabin, you get dinner, and you get breakfast. Dinner, right. And then you get the evening to where you have you can go out and watch the sunset at at clifftops and then come back down. Then in the morning, if you want to get up early to get to sunrise at Myrtle, Myrtle Point. It is a hike in, hike out. They're the only way to get there is hiking. Yes. They are serviced by llamas about two or three days a week. The llamas come up and bring fresh linens and the food and things like that and haul out the the dirty, the you know, dirty linens and things like that. Because they change. Most people go up for one day, go up for one day. Yeah one night. Right. I've done it both ways. I've I've spent the night up there and I've also done day hike where you can just go up, go up for the day, and then come back down. Yeah. You miss the sunrise, sunset, and all that, but unless you're gonna hike out in the dark. But well, did you eat there? Well, yeah, yeah. When we stayed up there, yeah.
SPEAKER_02We Of course, you've hiked in there. It doesn't matter what they feed you, you're gonna like it.
SPEAKER_01It's hiker stew.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_01You don't want to be the last hiker. Okay. No, it's it's it's a hearty meal. Yeah. And the breakfasts are are really, really good. So they get you all uh nourished up for the hike out. Lacan is it's just like I say, it's this iconic hike in the Smokies. I've been up I don't know how many times now. Um because when I was hiking all the trails in the Smokies, so you have to hike all the trails. Yeah. So that means if there's five trails that take you up to Lacante, then you're gonna go up one and down another, but then you're gonna have to go up another one and down one, and then you're you have to do at least three trips to get all the trails in. I've hiked all the trails in the smokies twice now. So and plus I've been up, you know, other times with with different groups and uh overnights and both overnights and day hikes. So uh yeah, it's a it's a great place. Margaret Stevenson is a uh a legendary hiker from many, many years back. She climbed up to Mount Lacan over 700 times. As a matter of fact, her hiking boots are bronzed and they're in the they're in the it somewhere up there at the in either in the dining room or in the uh uh airy little gathering places they have for people who stay up there. That's cool. Yeah, yeah. Margaret Stevenson, and there's a group of hikers based uh mostly in Tennessee, but some in North Carolina that are the Margaret Stevenson hikers, and they hike all over the Smokies all the time. But they celebrate her birthday every year. Oh, that's cool in July. That's nice. I think we're up to about 117 now. I'm not sure about that. Oh, well. Yeah, she goes way back. But uh just uh Mount Lacan is a special place. It really is.
SPEAKER_02Okay, now because believe it or not, Steve, we're well over an hour. I'm I'm shocked into this. So I'm gonna play a little round robin and just now some of these places we'll we'll talk about the difficulty, but there's some things because you mentioned waterfalls, and I want to talk to you just we're just gonna jump around. Okay. Nothing will take you by surprise, I know. DuPont. The waterfalls are are spectacular.
SPEAKER_01They are spectacular. Um there is a fairly short loop that you can do right out of the part main parking area, little visitor center area that will take you by three incredible waterfalls. We're we're talking almost looking like western United States type waterfalls. I mean triple falls, high falls, I'm leaving one out, I know, but Bridal Vale. Well, Bridlevale is another one.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01And all fairly accessible, nice wide trails. Yeah, I would say that's a tourist trail. It is, yeah, it is. But if you want to see some major waterfalls, then DuPont Forest is is your place. It's it's between Brevard and Hendersonville. Correct. It's fairly easy to get to. Directions are easily found. Yes. Hooker Falls is another, that's a it's a sort of a lower falls. Yes. It's in a different area. And then there are several lakes that you can you can hike to and and a couple high spots, but the by far the the most popular is that that loop that gets in the major falls.
SPEAKER_02I think we're fortunate that some of the most beautiful falls in the state are so easily accessed. Yes. So I would recommend it. What about Crabtree?
SPEAKER_01Crabtree Falls, right off the parkway. Um a deceivingly short hike. You hike in, it's rather rocky, it can be it can be wet, has little seeps that go across the trail. But you get down to the bottom and that bridge that you can stand on, you're looking at this rock face with this water coming down. It is a beautiful waterfall. You don't have to go back out the same way. You can you can make the loop and come through the old campground. I don't know if the campground's open or comes back around to the parking area. You know, it's a it's a nice afternoon hike or morning hike. That part of the parkway is closed now because of Helene. So that's correct. You know, when they get it all open again, that is that is a nice, nice waterfall.
SPEAKER_02And the beauty of that, if you're a tourist, it's it's just a nice check off your list waterfall that you can get to. Uh you get some exercise. You do, yes. Uh so it's uh you can consider yourself a hiker by going down to see those falls. It's it's worth the effort, though.
SPEAKER_01I you know, that's that's one that if someone got out in their flip-flops or sandals to go down to the waterfall, I'd say, uh, you know, put some put a you know something better on your feet because it is rocky, it can be wet, um, the rocks can be slick, so yeah, you just need to know what you're getting into.
SPEAKER_02But there again, uh just to get on our soapbox, that's deceiving because when it is open, you can be out just driving around on the parkway, you pull in there, and here's a sign that says Catawba Falls so far. I don't know that there's a sign that tells you, hey, if you're stupid, don't go. I mean, uh it just makes you think you can run down there and see the falls. Right. But you can't.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, it's it's a little bit of a hike.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. You got to have the right footwear and you gotta take water with you. Take water with you, that's right. So unless you want to jump in the stream. I I hate to bring this one up. I don't mean to sound negative about it, but it's kind of it's kind of gotten out of my desired hiking schedule, and that's Catawba Falls.
SPEAKER_01Probably one of the most popular waterfalls, easily, easily accessible right out of Old Fort, right off I-40. Yeah, it's it's beautiful. And it is. If you if you want to see it, then go early and go on a weekday because weekends just get incredibly crowded. Yeah, that parking lot has been extend expanded to at least, I think they can easily park 70. Oh, I've seen them, they're still all the way out and down the road. And yes. Um the the Forest Service that uh took care of getting to the upper falls with that stair system and the tower and everything, 580 steps. So if you're going to if now you can go to lower falls and and see that and maybe go part way up if you don't want to do all the steps. If you want to go to the upper falls, be prepared for a stairmaster. Yeah, really. That's a quite a workout. Now they have yeah, they put in benches and little landings and you can kind of catch your breath there and you can move on. But you've got to remember you either have to come back down all those steps or it's a take the uh the what are they the other trail that comes down the other side. And you can do that, and and that's what I think most people do, they make it a loop. And but you have to be prepared for the the climb if you're gonna go to the upper falls. Yeah. You know, it's if you have people here that it's visiting and you want something close in and you want them to see a beautiful waterfall, take them there. If but yeah, be prepared for a lot of people if you're gonna go on, especially on weekends. But it is it's an asset that Old Fort has that.
SPEAKER_02Yes, you know, it's a definite draw. It's a destination, it's a draw. Yeah. Yeah. Almost in the same category. South Mountain. South Mountain. Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Uh what do you think of that? I've been a few times. Now they had some Helene damage that I think some of their trails are still not open, but partially. I think what is it, High Shoals Falls?
SPEAKER_02High Shoals Falls.
SPEAKER_01I think that's open. I don't know if all the infrastructure if they had a lot of steps too. Yeah. That's another another one that is, you know, fairly close. Well, that's a little drive from Morganton, but not too far. And uh uh again, a state park, so the trails are going to be in good shape because it's park trails. I would check to see what's open and what's not before going there. But I've I've hiked there a few times.
SPEAKER_02Well, one thing I like about South Mountain is they have a fairly extensive trail system. They do. They have some good spots for overnight camping. I've actually backpacked in and spent a night or two on the trail. You would think as close as you are to civilization that it wouldn't be that enjoyable, but it really, you know, camping's camping. You get in the tent, you know, you're happy. Absolutely. So it doesn't matter where you are. Uh anything else that you got that you want to talk about? I think we've covered a lot.
SPEAKER_01We've covered a lot of ground, many miles, many trails. Um but uh yeah, we are just we are so fortunate to live in an area that has so many trails, so relatively easily accessible. I mean, you you can do a lot of hiking just within McDowell, Burt, Avery, you know, just in our area. But we also have, like I say, we've got the National Park and Smokies, um, we've got state parks, uh, we have national forests. We didn't even talk about the Pisgah District down near Bravard. I mean, there's 400 miles of trails in the Pisgah district, and then you've got Nantahala. Um Nantahala, which is a little further out. I mean, you you could hike and hike and hike and not be on the same trail.
SPEAKER_02We didn't talk about really Wilson Creek.
SPEAKER_01Wilson Creek. That's another great area.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And up there around Brevard, there's some really nice loops there that exercise you on the way up, and then you coast all the way back to the trailhead.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, there's there there are two um, I think they're called Plutons, two rock outcroppings. One is uh Looking Glass Rock. Looking glass three-mile hike in, yep, and then and then back out, maybe about six miles, I think. There's uh John Rock. Oh and then one that that a lot of people miss is Cedar. Cedar Rock's a little more of a you're not getting off the trail, but you're getting on a much less maintained trail to get out to it. And it has an orientation looking in a opposite a different direction than um uh John Rock. Oh. But if you're in that area, if you want some some beautiful balls, then you need to go out in the the Black Balsam area. Oh, you've got Black Balsam, Tennant Mountain, and then Shining Rock. You can go all the way on out to Cold Mountain. That's some strenuous hiking, though. You you and that's also some wilderness areas. Uh Shining Rock is a wilderness area. So know where the trails are and have your map because there are there are no blazes. Um, so I always caution people if it's a wilderness area, then you really need to do your homework and have a map with you and and know where the junctions are and know which ways to go, because otherwise, you know, you're you can wander all around up there.
SPEAKER_02And and I would say to those of you that are planning a visit to our area, unless you're a veteran hiker and know to do just what Steve said about investigating, don't hike a wilderness area. Just just don't do it. We've got enough trails that you won't get your fill of trails if you just want to hike. But stay out of the wilderness areas because they can be dangerous. Uh and we don't want to our taxes pay for those guys to come and get you. Uh we don't want to pay taxes. So stay out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. That's good advice, I think, uh, because you can get get in too deep real quick.
SPEAKER_02Yes. With the abundance of what we have available, I would say just pick and choose wisely and pick something comfortable. Right. Yeah. You know? Yeah. Before you go, I I'm trying to shorten this up. Tell me about that project uh that new park that's going in down there at the end of the day.
SPEAKER_01Oh, Universal Park? Yeah. Okay, just real quick. Um with the universal uh building there at McDowell Tech's right on I-40, the one you see right there. The universal building behind it is about 300 acres. There are two ponds on that, and then some pretty steep terrain going uh going up to almost like a little ridgeline. There is a disc golf course there. Some of it got damaged during Helene, and so that needs some attention. Uh, there's the start of a trail going around one of the ponds, then up to the second pond. But other than that, there's not a lot developed there. So we as the MTA thought this could be a great place to put some trails. And so we brought in all the stakeholders. It's it's owned by McDowell County, it's McDowell County property. Yeah, it's also within Marion City limits, so you've got a municipal and county government to to our stakeholders. Of course, McDowell Tech is right there. Yes. So you have McDowell Tech, which also has two public schools, the uh Academy for Innovation and uh the early college. So there's there's that. And then um the economic development MEDA. They have some interests there. They're developing some industry on the sort of the other side of that property. So all these are are stakeholders that we we brought together and we just sat down and we said, you know, what do you think about developing this into a destination park? Everybody thought it was a great idea. And so we need someone to to organize all this, and everybody looked at those of us in the MTA, and we then put together a plan. Uh McDowell Tech, of course, has a sustainable trails program. Uh Jeremy Poor is the is the director of that. And so they're on board, and so we're starting to develop a concept map of where trails will go. Uh, we want family-friendly trails around the ponds. Right. We want some a little more challenging, maybe a perimeter trail going all the way around the property that could be oh yeah, maybe four, four and a half miles around the property. Um, we want some intermediate trails, we want some mountain bike trails. So there could be 12 miles of trails within there. And maybe nice. Uh, we have to phase in the development. Of course, we have to seek grants, we have to raise funds, we had to figure out some just basic things like okay, where are people going to park? You know, who's gonna take care of emptying the garbage, who's gonna keep the grass cut where it needs being cut. There's all those things that need to be worked out as part of the master plan for developing. So we're we're looking at this as long term. But the thing that's really exciting about it, besides the fact that you have this park, is that it is can be connected very easily with the peavine coming out of Marion. Yes, and then getting to McDowell Tech and you're there. And then on the other side, going down the other side, connecting in with uh the Box Creek Wilderness, Wilderness Gateway Trail that's being developed down that way, and then also extending down to the uh thermal belt trail. So there's the potential for connectivity linking together this park in a part, an area of McDowell County that doesn't have the trails and things like that. Exactly. This could be a destination park. I mean, I could envision, you know, you are disc golf, you've you could, you know, put in some a picnic pavilion, maybe a little amphitheater. You could, you could really, and there's there's fishing with the ponds. It's got a lot of positives, a lot of pluses. McDowell County has said, go ahead. That will be an Emphasis moving forward is you know getting the funding, getting a master plan, and then implementing that to develop this uh park.
SPEAKER_02I think that's gonna be cool.
SPEAKER_01And of course, you know, we're MTA is still heavily invested with continuing to extend the P-Vine. Yes. We definitely want the P-Vine to connect downtown Marion with McAltech. That you know, if we can go south beyond that, that's fine. But right for now, yes, if you can just get that far, I think that's the same. So we're moving forward on that. Um the trestles are being evaluated again. We expect uh to hear about that fairly soon, and that's going to inform how you know we get down to Jacktown Road, and then from there it's getting over to McDowell Tech. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02It looks good. I I can't seem to stop when you and I get together, so I'm gonna cut it off here. Would you come back kind of toward the fall and let's talk about some fall trails? Sure. Because there's a lot of trails that are particularly good when the leaves change.
SPEAKER_01That's exactly right. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, would you do that?
SPEAKER_01I'd be glad to, Jim. This is this is enjoyable. I I hope I hope folks listening are uh having as much fun as listening to it as we are. Yes. That well, that's here and and talking about it. Um I'm a four-season hiker. As a matter of fact, I prefer late fall, winter, early spring.
SPEAKER_02Maybe we could talk about some winter hikes. Because I got some, I know you got some. I'm gonna have to cut both of us off. I can't seem to hush. Let me just say one more thing though. If you're a local, or even if you're just listening from afar, just one week, skip the latte and send twenty-five bucks to the McDowell Trails Association. You can hear what all they're doing, and and trust me, we didn't cover much of what all they're doing, but you can you can hear uh just in Steve's voice the enthusiasm, and trust me, I know him well, and that enthusiasm is genuine. So just one time. Skip the latte, send the 25 bucks to Med to McDowell Trails Association. Uh you can find them, uh find their website, mta.org. McDowellTrails.org. McDowellTrails.org. Uh keep them in mind and do that.
SPEAKER_01And I I I need to say that that Jim is one of the early uh board members uh when McDowell Trail started 20 years ago. So uh Jim has a longevity with the with the organization, much longer than than than me. But um I've always said that any successes that we have now because we're standing on the shoulders of those that came before us and and got the ball rolling, got MTA organized, and uh well we could go on on that. Yeah, we'll just leave it there.
SPEAKER_02Well, uh I I always love it when you make me look good, Steve. And and trust me, this isn't the first time I could tell you some other stories that Steve has done uh that's made me look good, but I'm not gonna go into it. Thank you for listening. Please email me. It's on the porch with Jim Williams. That's one word. On the porch with Jim Williams at gmail.com. Email me uh with any questions that you have. This show today is in uh answer to a lot of requests that I had to talk more about trails. So here's this, and I'm gonna promise you uh if everything works out for us that we'll do a show in the fall, and maybe we can get a show in the winter, maybe uh that'll come along too. So, Steve, thanks again. I I appreciate it. Thank you for listening, and uh we'll be here next week on the porch.