John Bruner - Retired Paramedic for McDowell County - Commander of Bigfoot 911 Field Research Team

John and I discuss his time with McDowell County as a paramedic.  Things get a little deeper when John imparts his knowledge, wisdom, and bravery in his fight against cancer.  Then we go into the woods to find Bigfoot.  We discuss first hand encounters and endless possibilities.  This one will make you look a little closer during that hike in the forest.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 1:00

Hello, I'm Jim Williams, and you're on the porch. My guest today is John Bruner. John is a retired paramedic here in McDowell County. We're going to talk about some other things that John is also. And he's also the commander of the Bigfoot 911 Field Research Team. And obviously, that's where I'm going to go because I want to talk about Bigfoot. John, thank you for coming.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

Oh, it's good to be here. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Listen, I I appreciate it when people just come up out of the blue and agree to talk to me. And I think we're going to go down some interesting paths today.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

I think so too.

SPEAKER_03 1:42

Tell me a little bit about uh you and McDowell County and your time as uh paramedic.

SPEAKER_01 1:50

Well, I was born here in McDowell County uh in 1965. I've lived here all my life. After I got out of high school, I got really interested in emergency medicine. And the TV show Emergency fuel uh fueled that for me. Uh but I I went to school. Uh uh Carol Hemphill, who was director then, hired me. And I served 30 years uh and as a paramedic in McDuff County EMS. When I retired, I was a lieutenant in the organization.

SPEAKER_03 2:26

Well, first off, thank you for your service to our county. I know that most people here are appreciate what the paramedics and EMT and emergency uh forces do for us, and and certainly thank you for that. Let's talk paramedic for a second. Anything that happened during your time that you want to talk about? What did you do during the hurricane? Were you out already? Were you retired?

SPEAKER_01 2:49

I retired in 2018. Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_03 2:53

Uh any any big events you want to talk about?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

Well, I for the last 10 years that I worked, I was uh the disaster coordinator for McDowell County EMS. I was responsible for gathering uh or uh taking care of all disaster-related issues. I deployed uh three times uh during my career to other parts of the state for hurricanes. The last one being uh Hurricane Matthew in 2018. Uh myself and uh William Keller, who's the director, and uh Chad Robinson went down there for a week. Uh we were assigned to Bladen County, who was just devastated by that hurricane, as a uh incident management team. And uh we did some good work down there, helped those folks get back on their feet. And I was privileged during uh Hurricane Helene to know that uh those folks that w we went and helped actually came here and helped us during that. So really, yeah, it kind of went full circle there.

SPEAKER_03 4:01

Well, that's a good thing. That EMT emergency community, that's kind of a small community, I guess, when you get right down to it, because we're helping each other or you're helping us. When you go into a community, all right, it's been devastated, otherwise you wouldn't be there. What is the first thing you see? What goes through your mind initially when you get into a devastated community? Do you think about lives lost, property lost? What what do you see?

SPEAKER_01 4:34

Well, I think of a lot of things. I I I really pay attention on the way into where we're going. I want to see the damage myself. That way when people tell me about it, I kind of get to understand it. I am I I am concerned about the lives lost, but I'm also concerned about the lives that are affected that are not lost. One of the issues we had in Bladen County was they had a uh a medical shelter set up at the local high school that was way understaffed. And one of the first things I done was make sure that was staffed with qualified people and those folks got quality care while they were there. And that's one of the things I was most proud of.

SPEAKER_03 5:21

Do you worry about their lodging? Do you worry about obviously you worry about medical things and and folks say a diabetic, he has to make sure he or she that he has all the medicine and that sort of thing. There's a lot of logistics involved in that.

SPEAKER_01 5:38

Tremendous amount of logistics involved in that.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Are you overwhelmed with sadness when you go into those places?

SPEAKER_01 5:46

You know, I I I feel for those folks, but I'm there for a reason. And uh by the grace of God, I can go in and deal with their sadness and try to make the situation better for them.

SPEAKER_03 6:03

How do you even approach that? How do you approach a family who maybe has lost a loved one or they're looking for a loved one, which is even worse, in my opinion? Or they've lost pets or that sort of thing. How do you deal with that? Because we're going into some other things we're going to talk about. And so depression is one of the things I like to talk about. Do you do you come home and just crawl into a little ball?

SPEAKER_01 6:28

I sure don't. I come home and everything that I learned on that mission is is wrote down for future generations to use when I'm not there.

SPEAKER_03 6:40

All right. It doesn't affect you uh if from do it doesn't keep you from doing your job, I guess.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

It does not. And and the satisfactions that I get from doing the things that I done uh far outweighed the you know, I I felt bad for those folks, and I told them, I feel bad. I don't know what you're going through, but I'm gonna do everything in my power to make sure tomorrow is better for you.

SPEAKER_03 7:08

Do you think McDowell County has a pretty good uh EMT emergency?

SPEAKER_01 7:13

I think they're top-notch, and it's because of the dedication of the men and women over the last 40 years uh that have come through that organization. It's the dedication that they put forth. When I was there, we were top-notch. Uh we we were doing things that a lot of not uh not a lot of the other counties in North Carolina were doing as far as patient care wise. And today they're doing light years from what we were doing back then. It has advanced so much. And, you know, it's it's uh, you know, this is kind of a cliche, but when the EMS comes to your house and then you get in the back of that truck, you're like you're in an intensive care unit right there.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

So you come up on a scene, you have to make an evaluation. I'm assuming you guys roll up on accidents and that sort of thing. Right. Okay, you come up on the scene, guys laying there. Are you trained to evaluate that guy laying there and keep him alive until you get him to the hospital? Yes. Oh yes. How much how many hours of training have you had?

SPEAKER_01 8:26

Gosh, there there is no telling because I I um I started in 1993 and when I retired in 2018, I was still going to school for something. So you get updated yearly or oh you get updated uh like monthly.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Really? Oh yeah. So if I'm out there in the street and and I know EMS is coming, I can feel a little bit of relief knowing I'm in pretty good hands.

SPEAKER_01 8:58

You can feel good and know that you're gonna get top-notch care and they're gonna do exactly what needs to be done for you, and they're gonna tell you what they're gonna do before they do it. Yeah. They're gonna make you part of the process.

SPEAKER_03 9:14

What's your success rate? How many people do you think you save?

SPEAKER_01 9:18

Well, I can tell you this. I know for a fact that there's five people walking right now that I saved in cardiac arrest.

SPEAKER_03 9:29

Really? Yes. Well, that must make you feel pretty good.

SPEAKER_01 9:32

It does make me feel good because I myself, I had a heart attack in uh 2022 in Atlanta, Georgia, and I experienced cardiac arrest. And so I'm a cardiac arrest survivor myself, but I know there's five people walking right now that were in cardiac arrest for a significant amount of time that made it they don't need oxygen and they're they're neurologically intact, able to enjoy life. Really? Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:09

When you had uh your cardiac arrest, did did emergency service have to come?

SPEAKER_01 10:14

They did. They did. Uh I had gone down there to go to Atlanta Brays ball game, and I was at the Hank Aaron Memorial, and uh I was uh walking back to the vehicle, and I just felt like I was really tired and I started yawning a lot. And I kinda I kinda just got really tired, and I went down to one knee and and I was just kind of there, and my my son was with me and some other guys, and they thought that I had stopped to pray.

SPEAKER_03 10:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 10:53

And then I fell face first, and they knew something was wrong, so they activated that, uh, the 911 system down there. The fire department got there immediately. I mean, it was it's like five minutes. And the EMS was right behind them, and they from the time they got on scene to the time I was in the cath lab was 19 minutes. Really? Yeah. Just be truthful.

SPEAKER_03 11:23

So you're there, EMS comes up. Do you start telling them what to do?

SPEAKER_01 11:28

No, I didn't. I I I did tell them that I was a retired paramedic, and uh they done a a an EKG, and he said, I'm gonna show this to you and and and let you tell me what you think. And I looked at it and I said, We need to go. He said, You're exactly right.

SPEAKER_03 11:47

Son of a gun. Before we change subjects, is there anything else you want to talk about, uh EMS-wise?

SPEAKER_01 11:55

It's just I had a wonderful career. I got to live my dream that I had as a kid. Uh I wouldn't go back and change nothing. Uh I had opportunities to go other places to work for more money, but I stayed at home.

SPEAKER_03 12:11

Did you ride the the big bus? Yeah. Yeah. Okay. I've always wanted to know this. Who blows that horn?

SPEAKER_01 12:19

Well, it's usually the passenger. Really? Yeah, usually the driver is just driving and the passenger operates the lights, sirings, and horn.

SPEAKER_03 12:29

So you're sitting in there and you're kind of a lookout for the driver, right? Because you're checking cross traffic and that sort of thing. I've kind of been in those situations too. You're the horn blower. Or or did you do the driving? Well, we we alternated, you know. Yeah. You don't fight over who gets to blow the horn. No. Oh, okay. Well. See, I w I'd w I'd want to blow the horn. Now we talked about something when you got here, and you've given me permission to ask you about this. Uh you are a cancer survivor. I am, yes. You have a message that I find worthwhile. And and I think it's worthwhile enough that uh we talk about it on this podcast. Just give me your approach to this this cancer thing.

SPEAKER_01 13:18

I was diagnosed in um in 2020 during COVID. Um I had to go into the hospital in Winston-Salem. Uh nobody could go in with me. No visitors. My wife actually dropped me off at the at the elevator. It was 5 15 in the morning. And, you know, I had to walk away from the car and get on that elevator and go up by myself. I had to face this by myself because of the COVID. I got on the elevator and was going up to where I needed to go. And I had thought a lot. I had I had uh went through a lot of emotion prior to and I went through all the stages. What just happened to me? Look what good I've done in this world. Why did was it me? You know I went through all that. On that elevator I accepted it, and I talked to the cancer. And I told it, you took a lot of good people out of this world. And you may take me. But I'm gonna fight you like nobody else has ever fought you, and I'm gonna fight you every day. And every day since then, I have fought that cancer, and I will never stop fighting.

SPEAKER_03 14:43

Well, obviously, you've been successful so far. Uh it looks like it's working for me. I I kinda like what your message is here. After COVID, because during COVID, you're right. We're all isolated. We we've had family pass away that we couldn't even be around when they passed away. But you must be getting support now from your family.

SPEAKER_01 15:07

Oh yeah. Oh yeah. And they were there too, uh, even though they couldn't come into the hospital. My wife's staying in the motel across the road the whole time I was there. I was in the hospital for eight days. And she stayed there, and that and they and she would come to the parking lot of the hospital every day, and I could see her out the window. And I had a trach, I couldn't talk or anything, but I could see her, and the nurse was on the phone with her saying he's waving at you. My goodness.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Do you feel like your fighting spirit is what keeps cancer at bay, or do you think it's just fate, or do you think it's just luck? Why do you think you're where you are now?

SPEAKER_01 15:55

I think where I'm where I'm at now because of the grace of God for for one thing. But you know, I I still talk to the cancer, even though it's not there now, I still talk to it. And I let it know you're not in charge. I'm in charge. And I'm not gonna I'm not gonna give in to it. I you know, I fight it every day. When I get up, if I get up and I feel bad, I fight it because I know that's just trying to bring me down. That ain't gonna happen. It ain't gonna happen.

SPEAKER_03 16:35

I kind of already see the message here, but if someone comes along, is diagnosed with cancer, whatever kind they got, and you you met those that person, what would be the first thing you would want to talk to them about? What would you say? What would you say to a guy that comes up and he goes, John, I just found out I got cancer. Uh they told me it's terminal, we don't know. What do you say to them?

SPEAKER_01 17:02

You know, cancer diagnosis, I think, is one of the worst things you can ever hear about yourself. Um, you know, it and you're gonna go through all of those emotions that I think. You're gonna go through all of them. You're gonna get mad. And and you know, I think as a paramedic, I saw so many people get this diagnosis and I saw them give up. They just give up. And I always said to myself, you know, I think if they wouldn't give up, they if they fought it, they could they could beat it, you know. And so when I got that diagnosis, I told my wife, I said, I'm gonna fight it. I ain't gonna let this beat me. This ain't gonna define me. I said, I am not gonna waste away. I am gonna fight it.

SPEAKER_03 17:56

Do you talk to people now about I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Anybody that that will talk to me about cancer, I'll talk to them. Because I've learned a lot of things that can help them, uh uh, you know, treatment-wise and and and uh thinking-wise. I I've learned a lot of things. I talk to a lot of people about about cancer now and and how c they can approach it, uh, how they can navigate this and navigate that and and do it and keep their sanity at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 18:32

Do you believe that I and obviously I'm I'm putting words into your mouth because I know what you're gonna say. Do you think your mind is way more important than your body in a fight like this? I do.

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I think I think I think well, I think your spirit. I I think your spirit is what fights. And and I think the spirit, if you can make the spirit stronger than the disease, you can beat it. You can beat it. Wow. You can beat it.

SPEAKER_03 19:04

That's a message.

SPEAKER_01 19:05

Yeah. And and I and that's exactly what I done. I beat cancer, I can say that. I beat cancer. I had my last scans in in May, and they were totally negative from head to toe. Well, congratulations. And and I can say I beat cancer, but I can say it was the hardest fight I've ever fought in my life. And I wouldn't wish it on nobody, but it's but one thing about it, I can tell them how to navigate that road. And I will if they'll just ask.

SPEAKER_03 19:39

Well, I'm I might ask you to come back up here and talk to me on the podcast, and we might get a little more specific about that if you would be so kind. I'd love to. I do want before we go, because you gave me a tip, uh-huh, tell me about that peppermint thing.

SPEAKER_01 19:55

The peppermint. Uh uh a lot of cancer patients, they have a they have problems with nausea. Uh nausea is terrible, and they have medications, you know, for that they can give you for nausea. But one thing that people can do is is just get peppermint oil, put it in a glass bottle, and when you get nauseated, sniff it. You sniff that. And the peppermint lifesavers, carry them around in your pocket. And if you get nauseated, just pop one in your mouth. Really?

SPEAKER_03 20:28

Anything else you want to tell me on this subject before we switch?

SPEAKER_01 20:32

I think we've hit cancer pretty good. I think you did too. You know, one thing that I will say about cancer and being a paramedic, sometimes knowledge is a blessing and a curse. Because all the doctors, I could talk to them on their level, and I understood the seriousness of what they said. You know, most people don't have the medical knowledge to understand what the doctors are really saying. Correct. But I did. And I can honestly say that that the medical knowledge, it was a blessing and a curse, too, because there's some things I wish I hadn't have known.

SPEAKER_03 21:12

But oh, that's an interesting point of view. Yeah. How about that? All right, I'm gonna switch subjects if you're if you're ready. All right. Uh the reason I wanted you to come up here was to talk about Bigfoot, and you've already talked about some things that I'm very pleased that you've been here to talk to me about. Uh-huh. But let's move on. Let's let's get let's get old Bigfoot in the arena here. As we talked about, you're the commander of Bigfoot 911 field research team. That's correct. So you're out you're out looking for him or her. Did you not get have a part in the Bigfoot Festival here in Marion?

SPEAKER_01 21:50

Yes. Uh uh we uh me and my son started that festival. Okay, all right. In two thousand eighteen was the first year.

SPEAKER_03 22:00

Alright, I want to go back to the very basics now. Okay. What in the world made you think you could find Bigfoot?

SPEAKER_01 22:08

Well, let's go back to 1977. I was twelve years old. And my family owned a bunch of land, and and the majority of it was wooded, and as fate would have it, the the bypass goes through it now. But but um I was in there one day and I heard something that sounded like a woodpecker knocking, but it was bigger, it was louder, it was harder, and I would hear it to my left, and then I would hear one to my right, and then I heard one straight ahead, and I could not figure out. I mean, I was looking around because that had to be a big bird, you know, and I never did see nothing. So I left there and and I was going back home and I stopped by my grandmother's house. And and I said, Mamma, I said, have you ever heard anything that sounds like a big woodpecker knocking and you know you can't you can't figure out what it is? And she said, Where was you at? And I said, Well, I was over in the down below the old home place, uh, just just beyond the pasture. And she said, You really shouldn't be over there by yourself. And I said, Why not? And she said, We're not supposed to talk about it. And I said, What do you mean? Because you know, now I'm now I'm curious. And she said, I thought your papa ran that thing out of there. Oh my gosh. And my papa died in 1965, and Mama wouldn't talk about it, so no more. That's about all. So I go home and I ask Mama, I said, Mama, what's this deal about something being over in the old pasture, behind the old pasture? And she said, Daddy said we weren't allowed to talk about that. And she wouldn't talk about it. And so I get with one of my cousins and I said, What do you think it their their deal is, you know? And he said, I don't know. He said, I I've not heard anything on my end of the family over here, because the whole family lived in in like a little village, you know. Everybody that lived there was kin to each other, you know. And so, I don't know, a few days went by and and I said, Mama, I said, Well, what's going on with that thing over there? I said, What is that a big bird or what? And she said, That's the booger man, and you need to stay away from over there. Okay. Okay, so when we when I was little, the grown-ups always said, Don't be outside after dark, or the booger man will get you. Well, I always thought that was the devil. They were talking about the devil, you know? Yeah. But come to find out, my mamma lived to be a hundred years old when we got to talk, not long before she died, and they were talking about a big foot. Now did they know what it was a big foot. Right. They knew they thought it was a wild man. Oh, that's what they thought it was. A hairy wild man is what she said, Papa said it was.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

So you're saying that your your grandfather for sure, and maybe your grandmother, maybe saw it. They knew about it.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Uh, come to find out, Papa lost a lot of uh farm animals, um, and he actually saw it carrying uh a chicken off.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 26:13

And when he saw that, he summons his brothers, and they created a posse, and went for a couple of days they were gone, and when he came back, Mama said he said, it's gone and it's never to be talked about again. And so they didn't, you know, they wouldn't talk about it. So do you think they found it and they eliminated it? I don't know.

SPEAKER_03 26:42

Huh.

SPEAKER_01 26:43

I don't know. But I know something was in those woods in 1977. Now I didn't have no clue. I didn't I didn't tie it to Bigfoot to about 1986. Okay. That's when I tied everything to Bigfoot. All right. Um, you know, I remember going to the movie theater and seeing the Patterson Gimlin film when it it was running, you know. And and that intrigued me, and I read a lot about it, you know, and and I always thought, why can't we why can't we have something like that here? I believe that, you know, why why can't and so, you know, I kind of laughed because these experts get on TV and I've been hunting bigfoot for 25 years. Well, gosh, I've been doing it for 40 some years now. I've got notebooks full of notes that I took over the years. And, you know, in uh in 2015, my son, my oldest son, had just come back from the military, and we decided that we were gonna take him and my other sons and we were gonna organize a field research team, and we were gonna do it. Well we did that and before you know it, it's some friends wanted to join and and everything, and and that team's still going today. We have today the the team is based in Marion, North Carolina, but I have divisions in Mount Holly, Sparta, North Carolina, uh upstate South Carolina, uh Mid-Carolina and South Carolina, and I also have a coastal division based on the coast.

SPEAKER_03 28:37

Do these people take this seriously or are they just together to have some fun?

SPEAKER_01 28:43

Yeah, uh it's serious research. We do serious research. We gather uh the evidence and and we we log it, document it, and uh preserve it. And uh so it's serious, serious research. Now, Bigfoot 911 is a no-kill team. We have no interest in killing it, we have no interest in trapping it. My interest is uh documenting its existence and its life patterns.

SPEAKER_03 29:14

Have you gotten any pictures or anything? I do.

SPEAKER_01 29:16

I uh there's a pi I have taken I took a picture of a of one at Lake James in 2019. Oh, really? Oh yeah. And uh I've I've seen I've seen the creature three times in my life. No kid. Yeah. And I can tell you right now, and I told the mayor uh, you know, when we were talking about the festival and stuff, the mayor actually uh made Bigfoot the official animal of and I say that's good because there's a whole family of them that lives at Lake James.

SPEAKER_03 29:50

You think so?

SPEAKER_01 29:52

I know there's that. Really? Because that's where one of the areas we research.

SPEAKER_03 29:57

And you think there's a or you're you're not thinking, you're saying there's a family of Bigfoot people that live at Lake James.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Yeah, there's about 17 members of that family unit. Whoa, no, kid. Uh about 17 members of that family unit. And and they do not, now I'm not saying that all Bigfoot don't migrate, but this particular group don't migrate. Now they will move from Linville back over to Nebo, but they don't migrate out of the area. Now I'm not saying that all Bigfoot do that, because there's a lot of stories of Bigfoot migrating down the Appalachian Trail. Uh and out in the Sierra Mountains, there's there's uh stories of migration. But this particular group here uh don't migrate to seas, and I'll tell you why. You got to have some some things in place for them not to migrate. Number one, you got to have a food source. Well, you got a pretty good food source in in the forest land animals and and the uh the farms and and things, and you also have uh the people's gardens, uh stuff that grows wild, uh mushrooms and things like that. You got to have water source. Water source is good. You got to have travel routes that are concealed. And if you've ever been out at Lake James and got off on the Forest Service Road, you're pretty concealed in there. You know. Well, that's true. And you got to have uh uh covering concealment now uh, you know, look at all the Pisca National Forest that that encou that area encompasses. You know, that's covering concealment at its finest.

SPEAKER_03 31:49

You know, I think about the number of bears, for example, that travel on the same lands that we travel as hikers or whatever, and you never see those bears. And they're probably maybe or maybe not trying to hide from human beings. So let's assume that the Bigfoot folks are consciously trying to hide and they don't want to be seen. So I could see how that could happen. And any random encounter that you might have, if you're a hiker, you may see something, you know, off in the distance or somewhere, but you don't give it a second thought. You just continue your hike. Huh. Now let me ask you this. I'm gonna I'm gonna go off the path here just a little bit. Okay. So now you've created this Bigfoot Festival, do how do you approach that? Do you think that in having a Bigfoot festival, are you taking the Bigfoot situation a little bit too lightly, or is that just a way to make people a little more aware of Bigfoot?

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Well, you know, for years uh it was taboo to talk about it. You did not talk about it. We we we let the McDowell used to run a story about the research team, and then the Downtown Business Association gets in touch with us wanting to know if I'd be interested in doing a festival. And at first I said no, because I didn't think it'd go. I did not think the city of Marion would go with that. I didn't think that would go over at all. Well, you missed it there. And and so they they stayed on me, you know, and I finally gave in. And the day before we had the first festival, uh, I told my oldest son, I said, if we have 1,500 people here, I'll be happy. And what did you get? There was around 60,000 people. 60,000 people around it. Shut Interstate 40 down in both directions. It was, I had I have never, I would have never dreamed that the city of Marion would encompass Bigfoot like they have. They have adopted Bigfoot. And we're making money off of it. Yeah, there's a lot of people, and you know, that's the one thing that I I I tell the mayor is I want this to be about the town. I don't want it to be about me. I want this to be a reason that those businesses on Main Street uh make money, and I want it to be about the town. I don't want any of the any of the glory here. I don't want that. I said, because I love where I come from, and I said, for so many years we were known for bad things. And I said, this ain't a bad thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Well, that's an admirable thing to do, and I think you can rest in the fact that you have really boosted the Marion economy. Uh obviously from where we are, we see that Bigfoot Festival every year, and it just it it kind of grows and it wanes and it grows and it wanes, but it's consistent, and there's a lot of interest in that, and it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 35:21

Yeah, and I've had I've had uh uh shop owners tell me that they made as much in one day as they did a whole quarter. And that's what it's all about. I believe that. You know, because I I'm really big on on the small town businesses. Yes. You know, that I I I'm not a big box store kind of person, and and I think it's neat that you know, it wasn't that long ago that our little main street was just about nothing.

SPEAKER_02 35:54

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:55

And that's made a comeback. And and you know, Gearson now, I just want people, if they say anything about me, I just want them to say, you know, he took Bigfoot and he built, he helped Bill Marion back.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

When you do this, I mean now we see Bigfoot as a commercial entity. It's a it has value to the town. But does that distract you from the seriousness of finding the creature? No. It does not.

SPEAKER_01 36:29

No, it it does not, because you know, I've got lots of years of research uh under under my belt, and that's what I wanted to do anyway, and and I've done that. But but you know, I want to have that festival. Let me tell you what I always tell people. I want you to come to this festival, I want you to bring your family, I want you to make memories that years from now, you will sit around the table at cr on Christmas Day and smile about it.

SPEAKER_03 37:02

Well, that's a great approach. Okay, I want to get down to specifics. Okay. You said you've seen Bigfoot three times.

SPEAKER_01 37:09

I have, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:10

Will you describe those?

SPEAKER_01 37:12

Yeah, absolutely. Okay. Uh you know, there's a lot of uh there's a lot of folks that operate under the theory they come out of UFOs and things like that. And and that's great. If that's what you believe, that's great. But I seen the creature and I was 30 yards from it. I watched its chest rise and fall when it took a breath. I seen its eyes, I seen its nose. Now the only it didn't open its mouth, so I didn't see any of its teeth. It didn't open its mouth. But it was looking right at me, and I could tell that it wasn't the least bit intimidated. It was about eight and a half feet tall.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Did you see intelligence in its eyes?

SPEAKER_01 37:57

I s well what I've learned about intelligence, they are intelligent. You know, people say, well, why ain't they never found the Bigfoot skeleton? Because they they take care of the dead. Do they bury them? I don't know what they do with them. They may take them into a cave somewhere that we don't know nothing about. But I do know this. When I retired from being a paramedic, I worked as a medical examiner for about a year. And I learned a lot about things. And it takes a body eight days to decompose in the wild. Okay. Okay. That's why, you know, people say, well, well, they ain't never found a Bigfoot skeleton. And and I say, I say, well, you don't never find squirrel skeletons and rabbit skeletons. I said, you may see a deer thing, a deer bone every once in a while. I said, but you don't see the whole skeleton.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Well, that's true.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Nature has a way of taking care of things.

SPEAKER_03 39:01

All right, so you're looking into this guy's face. Right. Would you describe it as a uh an ape-like thing or a man?

SPEAKER_01 39:11

It has it it had ape-like features, and I say that because the nose was completely flat. And it it almost looked like that its head was tilted back because it's like I could see up its nose, but it was looking right at me. And uh the eyes were bigger than ours. Um I didn't see, you know, a lot of a lot of people report eye shine. I didn't see any of that. Uh I seen the eyes were bigger. Uh it has a sagittal crest on its head. Okay. It's it's it's not like ours, it has a sagittal crest. And when he turned, we looked at each other for a good 15 seconds. Oh my goodness. And he turned and walked off of the hill, and I seen the muscle in its back flex when he stepped off the hill. And I tracked it to the lake, and I'm convinced he got in the lake and swam off. So yeah, Bigfoot do swim. My goodness. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 40:18

How tall do you think he was?

SPEAKER_01 40:20

He's at least eight and a half feet. Because we went back to the site and we measured from the ground to where it he had his hand up on the tree, and and we measured to where I thought his head was, and it was right at eight and a half feet.

SPEAKER_03 40:36

All right. Now you said you've seen him three times. What tell me another one?

SPEAKER_01 40:41

Another time that that we saw him or that I saw him was at Lake James again. Um we had got a report re we had been getting reports from fishermen that somebody was when they were fishing the bank along a certain place out there in Lake James, that somebody was up in the woods throwing rocks at them. Well, I didn't I didn't much think it was somebody because of where it was at. Because it was if it had been somebody, they'd had to walk a long way to get to that.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:17

You know. So uh I have a a friend who has a boat and I said, take me out one night. So it was a Friday night. I didn't take any equipment except a night vision camera with me. That's all I took. And so we waited and listened and listened, never heard nothing. So about one o'clock in the morning, you know, I said, let's let's park right here in this cove and see what happens. So we did, and it had been quiet for about 10 minutes, and I heard a wood knock to my left. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 41:53

I I understand that's kind of in the territory, that's what they do.

SPEAKER_01 41:57

That's one of their ways of communication.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 42:00

Okay, so then I heard one on the right, and I said, Yeah, we got something here. Let's let's see. So I got that night vision camera and I started scanning. All right. And and I was scanning and I saw it. It was standing. There was a tree right here, and it was looking out like this.

SPEAKER_03 42:24

And so he was he's behind the tree and he's peeking out of both sides.

SPEAKER_01 42:28

Well, and not with his head, with his whole body. I mean, his whole body was coming out, you know, he'd look. So I started taking pictures with the night vision camera. And uh the knocks got but the thing about the knocks, the thing about the knocks is I was looking at it, I had it in camera and I was watching it, and its arm, it was holding on to the tree. It wasn't knocking.

SPEAKER_03 42:57

So that's not the guy doing the knocking.

SPEAKER_01 43:00

I'm like, well, maybe, maybe that's not what I think it is, you know. Make a long story short, got home, downloaded the pictures, uh, blew the picture up, and there was two more standing behind it.

SPEAKER_03 43:15

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_01 43:16

And one of them had to be the one doing the knocking. Right. And they were smaller. I think that was a mother and two children there. And I think maybe the daddy was across the cove there.

SPEAKER_03 43:31

All right, let's talk about the third time.

SPEAKER_01 43:33

The third time was um at um um Curtis Creek. Old Fork. Oh, Curtis Creek. Curtis Creek and Old Fort. Yeah, uh, we had got reports uh of howls up in that area, and that's another common thing with 'em, is the howls, you know. So uh we we had went up there one night to and we were just above the campground. I I'm not even sure if the campground's there now. Helene done a job on that area. Yeah, I don't know. But it was just above where the campground used to be.

SPEAKER_03 44:10

Yeah, that's dark country up in there.

SPEAKER_01 44:12

And uh I started hearing hoops, you know.

SPEAKER_03 44:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

Uh that's a common noise. And and I thought, eh, that's that's that's promising, you know, that's promising. So me and another guy, we walked off the trail. We were we were on a trail and we walked off the trail. We were maybe maybe 25 yards off the trail. And I heard something move to my right, and I scanned with my light, and it was standing there, and it took off running up a r up through a ravine. It didn't take it no time to get to the top of that ravine. So they're pretty fast. Yeah, it's quick.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Do you think that this group up there in Old Fort, do you think they could be related to the group at Lake James?

SPEAKER_01 45:09

I th I don't think there I don't think they are, but I do I do think there's a family unit up there because I've gotten a lot of reports from the um area around the geyser, uh Mill Creek up in there. I think maybe there's a family unit up in that area.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

Do you think they are able to communicate with each other, or does it even matter? Because I go back to my analogy of a black bear. You know, a a black bear down here at, say, Lake James, he could care less what's going on up in Old Fort. You know, he doesn't he may have relatives up there, but he probably doesn't even know it.

SPEAKER_01 45:46

Yeah, I do think they I I do think they communicate with each other. Uh probably three or four years ago, we had a had a man here at the festival, Ron Moorhead. Ron recorded the Sierra sounds that are popular uh in the 1970s in the Sierra, and those were taken to uh I can't remember if the professor's name or the college uh the university, but he determined that there was a language in that in in those Sierra Sands. So I think they have their own language. Uh I don't think we can understand it. Uh they use several ways of communication, though they they use the tree knocks, the whoops, the hounds, but they also use what I call uh tree structures. You find these odd structures in the woods that are just way out of place of anything that you know you see. Like they will take trees and they will bend them down and make a make a a hoop there and they will pin it on the ground. A lot of time you'll find trees that are X'd.

SPEAKER_03 47:09

Right.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

And a lot of people say that that they think those X mean stay out. Territorial? I don't. I think those mean that there's not any food sources there. Or it may not be, it may not be a good travel route. But I I think it goes back to food sources because I've seen uh ex patterns before with no uh indication of wildlife around. No deer sign, no nothing like that. I think it it's a it's a food thing, and I think they're trying to say it ain't nothing to eat here.

SPEAKER_03 47:47

Well, do you think, unless of course they're threatened and their backs to the wall, do you think they have any animosity toward human beings?

SPEAKER_01 47:56

I don't think they have any there has never been a documented case of a Bigfoot attacking nobody, ever. Now, there's a case, uh, a gentleman by the name of Albert Osman in 1924 was uh kidnapped by one, and it took him to its cave, and he was there for I think four or five days, and how he got away was uh he had snuff, powdered snuff, and he gave it some of that and it started sneezing and he took off running. But uh till till the day that man died, he swore that he was kidnapped by a Bigfoot. Really? And uh, but there has never been a documented case of a Bigfoot ever hurting anybody.

SPEAKER_02 48:38

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:39

I think here's here's how I look at it, and I've been I've been doing this a long time. They just want to be left alone, they don't want to be bothered, they they don't have no no beef with us at all. They just want to be left alone.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

Yeah, okay. And the families seem to be relatively small. I mean, if you're the one in at Lake James is 17, I think you said. How do you did you come up with that number?

SPEAKER_01 49:08

Well, uh, it's just by the the the tracks that we've cast and the size of them and uh the differences in them. And so I'm I'm estimating and I'm and it's a pretty good estimate that family units are anywhere from thirteen to seventeen depending on you know how many little ones they are. But um a Bigfoot stays with its mother till it's about fifteen years old. Really?

SPEAKER_03 49:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 49:42

Well that's not uncommon.

SPEAKER_03 49:45

We we're familiar with that.

SPEAKER_01 49:46

They're six they're six feet tall by the time they're three years old already. Wow. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 49:52

What would you say then the full size? You were guessing about eight feet on this one. So a fully mature male, what would you guess his height would be typically?

SPEAKER_01 50:04

Around here, it's gonna be between eight and nine feet. Now, when when you get up into the uh into Canada, there's documented uh sign uh or documented things up there where they're uh ten plus tall.

SPEAKER_03 50:19

Okay. Yeah. You bring up a good point, Canada and Alaska and that sort of thing. Up there, uh and in in Europe, they call them Yeti. Do you believe there's a relationship between what we see here in McDowell County and and what's in Europe?

SPEAKER_01 50:38

I do. Yeah, and and and I think that the i it is it is akin to the Yeti, and I think it came over on the natural land bridge up there when that was it, and it came into Canada and it just migrated down into the United States over the years. And of course, you know, the Yeti uh is is more of a lighter color, but I think it I think environment uh documents why the ones we see are more darker, uh brown, uh dark red. Uh now down in Alabama they have some white ones. Usually the the lighter ones you see are the elders.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

Okay, all right.

SPEAKER_01 51:29

Because they get gray just like we do as they age.

SPEAKER_03 51:33

Well, that color thing makes perfect sense because you can see a brown bear by genealogy, you can see a brown bear that will be completely black. And you could see a black bear by genus species that can be brown. So that would make sense that uh the color of the animal would fit with its environment. So yeti up in the north would be because you know, the things that I see about yeti are they're more white because they blend in with the snow. That makes a lot of sense. How would somebody join up with this team of yours that goes out and hunts Bigfoot?

SPEAKER_01 52:14

Well, we have a Facebook page. You can contact us on the Facebook page. Uh or uh coming up August 29th, uh, you can come see us. Uh, we'll be on the courthouse loan. We take applications every year. People will come by and file applications that want to be team members. And and you don't really have to be from Marion to do it either, because we have divisions basically all over North and South Carolina.

SPEAKER_03 52:44

When these people come and they give you these applications, do you worry that they're just there for a good time or do you care?

SPEAKER_01 52:52

Uh well, they have to go through a pretty uh pretty uh lengthy interview with me and three other people who who uh really pick their knowledge. If if they have knowledge that we're looking for, we'll take them.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:10

Uh you know, a lot of a lot of the people get uh disinterested when we tell them we're not a a kill team. We're not gonna kill one.

SPEAKER_02 53:21

Is that right?

SPEAKER_01 53:22

Yeah, and they say, you know, everybody says, well, you know, they we gotta have a body. No, we don't. We got enough right now to prove the species. We don't need a body to do that.

SPEAKER_03 53:35

I kinda a hundred percent agree with you on that, you know? Yeah. You you don't need a body. You don't need to go out and bring in the head of the rhinoceros to prove there's a rhinoceros out there, you know?

SPEAKER_01 53:47

Right. We've got and I give you a prime example, we've got DNA from Bigfoot now. Uh the the TV show Expedition Bigfoot found a uh in Kentucky, found uh got some uh environmental DNA under a tree structure that they found, and they pulled uh uh uh gibbon DNA out of that, what they got. And why would a gibbon be in Kentucky?

SPEAKER_03 54:20

Well, that's a good point. You know. So we're saying that a gibbon is maybe the closest relative genealogy-wise to a Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_01 54:31

Well, here's what I think. I think it once we do get true DNA, that it's gonna have ape-like DNA and human-like DNA too. I I think there's gonna be characteristics from both in that.

SPEAKER_03 54:51

Well now for that to happen, that means that at some point back in time there had to be a crossover.

SPEAKER_01 54:58

There had to be a crossover. Uh you know, at some point in time. And, you know, we don't we don't know. I mean, we don't know. We know that I know that that there's been documented reports of Bigfoot from as far back as uh 963. Fellow by the name of Leif Erickson uh ran into him. And uh that's the earliest report I got, but I I've got uh several reports from the Civil War. I've got a report from the Civil War era that took place down in Glenwood.

SPEAKER_03 55:39

Can you tell me about that?

SPEAKER_01 55:41

Well, uh a a gentleman who had a farm down there uh was working his field and saw this uh nine-foot-tall Harry Wild man run through his field grabbing uh corn off the corn stocks.

SPEAKER_03 55:59

And this was during the Civil War era.

SPEAKER_01 56:02

Well, it was I think it was 1878, so it's kind of that era, you know.

SPEAKER_03 56:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 56:09

My goodness. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 56:11

It does go back into even uh pre-biblical times.

SPEAKER_01 56:16

Yeah. And you know, the Native Americans, all tribes have been documenting big thousands of years.

SPEAKER_03 56:24

Yes, yes, that is absolutely correct. And they don't have a an ax to grind, you know, they're just saying it's there.

SPEAKER_01 56:31

They think that it's part of the it's part of what's supposed to be. You know, they think it's what is of you know, and you know, uh over in uh in uh Judicol Rock over there in uh where that's at, you know, the story is that Bujum threw that off the mountain. You know, well Bujum was a Bigfoot. And I I d I can tell you I can tell you another thing about that area. My wife's family uh used to rent uh camp uh gosh, what is the name of that camp up there? Anyway, for the family reunions, it it's up in uh um golly geez. It was on the tip of my tongue. But it was up in Canton, uh North Carolina. Right. Up in there. And uh Camp Hope. That was the name of it Camp Hope. They would rent Camp Hope for the weekend and the whole family would come in and have a family uh reunion, you know. So I d I said that I was gonna take the kids Bigfoot hunting Friday night. So so we really didn't go Bigfoot hunting. We just let the kids get out and make noise and calls and stuff. At three o'clock in the morning, my aunt gets woke up because something is screaming behind the the cabins back there. She comes and gets me. And she she said, we've got to figure out whose kids is out making that noise they're gonna let you. And I told her, I said, Ain't Gene, I said, that's a Bigfoot. That's not, I said, we've actually called a Bigfoot in with these kids. I said, so it'll be all right, just go back to bed. So, you know, you the next day she said, I can't believe as old as I am, and she's from Florida. She said, I can't believe how old I am, and I finally had a Bigfoot experience.

SPEAKER_03 58:38

I think that's kind of interesting. I I want to get back, however, to this land bridge crossing. Okay. When they come across the land bridge out of Russia into Alaska, everybody understands how that works. Are they already they're already in the Bigfoot configurations? You're saying that the crossover between a human being and a a gibbon or some type of an ape happened way back in the day.

SPEAKER_00 59:05

It had to be way back there.

SPEAKER_03 59:07

Okay, all right. We believe that most life, whether you go with Darwinism or uh if you believe in in the absolute word of the Bible, either way you believe civilization started right there in the Fertile Crescent. Okay, so this crossover must have taken place early in the Fertile Crescent before they started to migrate, don't you think?

SPEAKER_01 59:33

Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, I'd agree with that.

SPEAKER_03 59:35

And then this species comes about for whatever reason decides it needs to be hidden, hide itself from the rest of humanity, and therefore developed into what we're calling the Bigfoot. Mm-hmm. Does that make sense? It makes sense, yeah. Yeah. Huh.

SPEAKER_01 59:54

Well now in Florida, they have what's called skunk ape, which is a Bigfoot-like creature, but they only get to be about five and a half to six feet tall.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:07

I'm glad you mentioned that because also there's something called a tubicabra.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:12

Tubacabra, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:14

Now, how does that fit in?

SPEAKER_01 1:00:15

It don't fit with the Bigfoot at all.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:17

It does not. Because tubacabra by legend are shapeshifters and that sort of thing. What we're saying is maybe, I'm I don't want to put words in your mouth, but possibly chubacabra may be more on the legend side. Yeah. And but Bigfoot is is right there. It's right. Yeah. It's real.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:40

Yeah. There's there's very little uh actual documentation for chupacabras that came out of the uh Central America. And uh, you know, they have a lot of uh voodoo and and things like that in that area. So it came out of that. Um where Bigfoot uh came across that land bridge and over time just migrated down into, you know, there's been a Bigfoot sighting in every state in the United States except Power. Every state.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:16

Well, that's interesting, yeah. And that would make sense when you think about it, because even though they can swim, they're not that good.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

Right. And the majority of the sightings are along the Appalachian Trail that and along the Rocky Mountains out west. Now, sporadically, you know, the but there's a lot of sightings along those two mountain ranges. And you know, I think that's like interstate highways myself. I've always thought the Appalachian State or the Appalachian Trail was a was a highway for Bigfoot.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:50

I'm really interested uh again to bring this up in this land bridge thing because one of the inherent traits of that Baltoslavic linguistic group is a pronounced sagittal crest. And that's what you said you saw in in the one that you came across personally.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:10

Right here at Lake James.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:11

Yeah. And that makes sense, doesn't it? I mean, that would be one of the traits that they would inherit when they come across.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:19

And and that's why I said, you know, there's groups that say they come out of UFOs and things. And and and I'm not knocking that, okay? That's what they believe. But I know what I saw. I saw a chest rising and falling with, and as a paramedic, a former paramedic, I'm taught to look at things like that. And and I saw the muscle move in the back, you know.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:45

And I didn't have a UFO experience that night, okay? Gotcha. You know, I didn't see lights, I didn't see anything like that, uh uh, I didn't lose time or nothing like that. I but I know I saw I saw that big.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:01

Do you think those people who have those stories, the UFO stories, do you think that's a little bit of a detraction from what you're trying to do? Because you're looking for a flesh and blood animal. And some of that other stuff seems to be contrived a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:20

Well, I think that that whatever you believe, you need to pursue that. Because I'm gonna pursue what I believe. These people that's convinced they come from UFOs, and and I'm not saying they that they don't. I'm saying I don't uh I don't subscribe to that theory.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:39

Well, I think your theory of somewhere close to the Fertile Crescent birth and then transmigration across the land bridge, which has been gone for thousands of years, which may come back, you know, if it gets cold enough. That makes a lot of sense to me. I mean, that's a physical thing that has happened and makes this idea of a Bigfoot uh quite possible. And and when I say that, I I I don't in any way mean to imply that I'm not buying what you're telling me. I'm just telling you the way I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:15

Exactly, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:16

Because you're kind of winning me over here. John, we blew an hour already. Is there anything let's let's go with the Bigfoot thing first. Is there anything else you want to talk to me about?

SPEAKER_01 1:04:29

I just want to invite everybody to come to the festival and and you know, just come and and have a good time. You know, we got good food there, we got good entertainment, we got good uh Bigfoot experts, they do talks and things like that. Uh tons of vendors. You can buy anything on Main Street that day you can think of. And just come and have a good time.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:54

Yeah, I'm sure Freddie Killow is listening to this, and I'm sure she thanks you for all the stuff you brought into Marion and the way you've changed the economy. It almost, well, with your son, but uh almost single-handed. What a great idea. What a great idea. You know, you made the national network when it first came out. Yeah. Uh it was on some program like Good Morning America or something like that. It sure was, yeah. I think you're to be congratulated and thanked for helping out our economy that way.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:27

And Freddie has been so much help. She has guided me and John Eric both uh through this process, you know, and and been so much help to us. And you know, she's the one that actually called me initially and asked me if I would do a a a festival. And I said, No. I said, that's crazy. You know, they don't want nobody come to that, you know. And of course it's like I said, you know, for years and years and years, Bigfoot was taboo. You didn't talk about it. If you talked about it, people made fun of you. I've had I've been made fun of a lot. And you know, it don't bother me, you know, that it it it just ain't everybody's thing, okay? And and you know, but we we took it and we done something positive with it. Yes, it helped our town, uh, you know, it helped our town's image. I mean, everybody the mayor told me that he was, I think, in somewhere in San Antonio, Texas, and somebody came up to him and said, Are you from the Bigfoot town in North Carolina? And he said, Yeah, I am.

SPEAKER_03 1:06:37

And you don't think it was because he just resembled Bigfoot? I mean, that can happen, you know. I've seen Steve up here a couple times. Uh no offense to Steve. Uh anything else? We'll we'll close. I'll give you the last word. Anything you want to say?

SPEAKER_01 1:06:55

I appreciate you having me on. I've had a really good time. Uh I I I really appreciate the fact that you're interested enough to know about the cancer and about the paramedic because I was a paramedic before I was a Bigfoot. And, you know, uh I think there's a message with cancer, and I think God chose me to to put that message out there in the way that I do it, and I appreciate you giving me the platform to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:29

Well, I I I said it when you got here. I really appreciate you coming, and now after talking to you, I appreciate it even more. So thank you very much. For those of you that are listening, uh you can email me and tell me what you think about this session. It's on the porch with Jim Williams. That's one word. On the porch with Jim Williams at gmail.com. We have some more things coming up. Uh I think we have one more big question coming up. I'm not sure. Thank you for listening once again. Uh listen next week, I'll be able to do it.