Ep #08: Chris Maunu: Practical Techniques for Clearer Choral Tone

You can hear it the moment a choir stops “trying hard” and starts making sound with intent. That shift is what I chase with guest Chris Maunu, a conductor, educator, and composer based in Portland, Oregon, with nearly two decades of experience building choirs from the inside out. We talk about the real-world craft of improving choral sound in ways you can repeat tomorrow: better breath support, cleaner vowels, less tension, and more singer ownership.

Chris shares how an artistry-first mindset earns trust quickly, especially with youth choirs. Instead of opening rehearsal with the hardest passage or a wall of technical notes, he looks for an early moment where singers can make music straight away. From there, we get practical about rehearsal pacing, repertoire sequencing, and how to keep young people engaged without lowering standards. If you lead a community choir, school choir, or auditioned ensemble, the same principles apply.

We also dig into vocal technique in plain language: how to help singers feel rib expansion, how to connect airflow to phrasing, and how to address jaw and tongue habits that choke resonance and tuning. We discuss changing voices too, including developing boys’ falsetto to find mix voice, and guiding girls towards head voice without fear of the upper range. If you want clearer intonation, freer tone, and more confident singers, this one is packed with usable cues.

Subscribe and follow so you do not miss future conversations, then share this with a fellow choir director and leave a rating and review to help more conductors find the show.

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Follow Chris Maunu:

website: www.chrismaunu.com
YouTube channel: @chrismaunu1195
Instagram: @chrismaunu 

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Transcript

Welcome And Guest Introduction

SPEAKER_01 0:04

Welcome to the choir director podcast. It's central resource for choir directors, conductors, and vocal leaders who want to build stronger choirs, run better rehearsals, and create outstanding musical experiences. I'm Russell Skart, and before we dive into today's show, I just wanted to say a huge thank you to all of you who tune in week after week. Your support means the world to me, and if you're joining us for the first time, welcome! This show is all about giving you practical tools, inspiring ideas, and expert insights to help you lead your choir with confidence and creativity. If you want to stay connected and get exclusive tips, resources, and updates delivered straight to your inbox, then make sure you sign up for our newsletter. You'll find the link in the show notes, along with a link to get in touch there if you'd like to contact the studio. Now on today's show, we have a fantastic guest, Chris Malnu, a conductor, educator, and composer based in Portland, Oregon, with nearly two decades of experience building choirs from the inside out. Chris is the artistic director of Pacific Youth Choir, affiliate faculty at the Portland State University, and artistic director of the professional ensemble coro in Scola. He also spent 17 years as director of choirs at Alvada West High School in Colorado, where he became known for ambitious repertoire and practical singer-centered rehearsal craft. And in this episode, we're digging deep into clear, repeatable ways to improve choral sound: tuning, vowels, resonance, and getting singers to take real ownership so you can apply those great ideas into your very next rehearsal. Well, a very warm welcome, Chris, to the show. Thank you so much for coming on today. We've got a big time gap between us. You're over in Portland, Oregon. I'm in London in the UK. How are things over there?

SPEAKER_00 1:59

Oh, uh overcast as usual this time of year, but uh a nice day.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

We're sharing the same right now. It's pretty grey and miserable out here too.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

There we go. Yeah, we have that in common.

SPEAKER_01 2:13

Now you we we've uh we've never met, which is uh it which is amazing because this this is you know it's a big wide world out there, but the choir world, the choir world seems to be very small sometimes. You know, you always you come across people all the time that you suddenly realize somehow you should know them, but you don't. You you get to travel a lot, presumably.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, absolutely. Um I think that's what I love most about our profession is that it it kind of takes our whole world and makes it relatively small. So I I love that and I love making connections with people all over the world. I think it's such a beautiful way to do that.

SPEAKER_01 2:54

And have you have you always been in choral education? Did it always did it start from there? Is it something you always aspire to do?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

No, that's uh probably an uh a longer story than we have time for, but I'll I'll give you the the reader's digest version as as people might my age and older would would call it. Um so I grew up in a really small town in the upper Midwest of the United States, and really never saw myself, you know, as a relatively reserved, you know, somewhat thoughtful, quieter personality. I I didn't really see myself in the performing arts. And so when I started university, started college, it was uh a business major, is actually what I began with. But luckily, uh my mother, I wasn't even gonna sing in the choral ensemble. They had several choirs on campus. Uh, but my mother was with me when I was signing up for classes, and she uh gently encouraged me to sign up. And so my college choir director, she had all of the new singers come up to her office and sing for her just to get to know everybody, all the new voices. And she liked what she heard and she invited me to be a part of the chamber choir, and eventually I got more and more involved and and became a music major. So I sort of stumbled into the the field a little bit more indirectly than than some people.

SPEAKER_01 4:24

And did you did you end up studying music as a child?

SPEAKER_00 4:28

Um well I not formally. I mean, I did participate in choir and band in the the school system I grew up in, but I never took like private lessons or anything. I you know, I put most of my energy at that time into playing sports and you know, just trying to fit into what I perceived as the cool social group.

SPEAKER_01 4:51

And being a kid, which is what's really important when you're when you're a child. We have to create opportunities as as parents, we have to create opportunities for our children and and uh try and support them in whatever they're interested in, whether it's sports, music, creative, you know. Um it's interesting what you said about. Oh, sorry, go on.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Oh yeah, yeah. I I will add that it's always been in me, like uh musical family, and one of my earliest memories as a little kid, I was probably three years old, is climbing on top of this little rock in our front yard uh where I grew up and singing like as loud as I could. So, you know, I've I've always loved it. I just I don't know, sort of put it aside. I I didn't think it was the coolest thing to pursue or whatever, you know. But uh it's always there a love has always been in me for sure.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

It's funny how you how how those early memories can really, you know, you you start thinking back to them as you get older, you start realizing that there were little things that happened as a child, as a baby, that you suddenly remember. And I I have one, my one of my earliest memories uh of music was was sitting down. I I probably was only around, I don't know, three perhaps. I don't know if you have memories that far back, but I can remember being on my bedroom floor uh playing on this little keyboard and just hitting notes and singing along to the sound that I and I just have that image, I just remember doing it. It's funny how those things and make and then maybe you think, you know, as you get older, maybe you think, oh, maybe that was a sign, you know. You you don't you don't know, do you? What what as you get older, you you start realizing more and more that this was what you were meant to be doing.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, you know, and I think honoring of everybody's path, you know, everybody is on a unique life path. There's there's no one way to do it. Sometimes I find myself being envious of people who knew from a very young age that this is what I want to do, and they went to, you know, a college or university that they've been thinking of for many, many years prior to that, and you know, just going into that kind of more stereotypical traditional path. But yeah, that wasn't the case for me, and I I've learned to embrace that as my own unique and and special path. And I I don't think I would do it any differently if I had the choice.

Introverts On Stage And Off

SPEAKER_01 7:08

I need to pick up on something you said, because it it sort of hit an hit a little spot in my mind about me. Um are you you you mentioned about being quite introvert, but then you stood on this rock and screamed. You know, you had this voice, you suddenly had this voice. And do you think as an ad as as an adult, do you think you are quite a shy person, even though you do a job that's really quite extrovert?

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Yeah, well, I'll uh I'll push back a little bit on the shyness piece. So, no, I don't think of myself as shy. I I think a lot of people when they think of introverts do think of shyness as a characteristic, and and that may be a a correlation, but really I've come to learn that introversion, extroversion is about where we go to recharge our our batteries. Um so yeah, I think there's the whole spectrum of personalities that find themselves in this field, and I yeah, I I think that's cool.

SPEAKER_01 8:11

I love that. I love I love what you just said. I think that's just an amazing thing to really think about. Um, because I I know so many, so many people that think that choir directors, you know, when when you're standing in front of a choir, you're on stage, and you come across with this you know huge charisma and energy and you're inspiring, and that's what we do. That's our job. That's what we do. Sometimes I find myself when I go, if I go to a party, for example, and I'm surrounded with loads of people I don't know, I hide myself into a little corner, and people think, Yeah what? No, you not you, surely. You you're all full of you know, full of personality. It's funny how that happens, isn't it?

SPEAKER_00 8:47

Yeah, yeah, it's it's a cool thing. I I think there's something about music that sort of transcends uh some of those uh, you know, what you might have referred to as like a social challenge or like a whatever, social anxiety, whatever it might be. Um and I think that's really a neat thing about choral music in in particular. It it sort of empowers the the quieter ones among us to step into something a little bit bigger than ourselves and makes it possible, makes it more comfortable. Um, and that's certainly been the the case for me. I am just like you. Like when it comes to attending a party or whatever, you know, I only have a certain amount of time and then I need to sort of retreat and you know go for a walk or put in a podcast.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

And you know, and as soon as you stand on stage, you're alive again, and you're like uh everyone's best friend.

SPEAKER_00 9:51

Yep, and I love it. That's the thing. Like uh it's not like I have to build myself up to it and like oh I gotta get on stage, I gotta work myself in up. No, no, no. I'm drawn to it, you know, and uh it feeds me in a really beautiful way to share that you've you can see the passion.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

I mean, you can see the passion in in you when I mean I've seen you on social media several times, and and just the passion in what you do and working with young people. Uh it's it's inspiring for young people, and that's and that's what we love, I think, about what we do is inspiring others. And I think particularly, and you you've your your journey. I I I use that word, but it's a bit cliche these days, but it is a journey. We you know, we're on this path, as you as you mentioned, and uh when we're working with young people, and you've you've had huge experience working in schools and and colleges and working with young people, you must find it really inspiring yourself when you are inspiring, I use that word a lot, inspiring others, inspiring young people to come out of their shells and sing and explore what they have with inside. How does that feel to you working with young people? What sort of ages do you work with generally?

Why Youth Choirs Change Lives

SPEAKER_00 10:57

Well, um, so yeah, my my sweet spot is probably like high school age. Uh, those are the choir, that's the age of the choirs I direct with the the Pacific Youth Choir, although we serve age five all the way through 18. But I've uh I've directed professional choirs, church choirs, you know, singers of all ages. And going back to what you said about, you know, the cool thing about uh seeing those young people in particular empowered to lean into who they are, you know, that's what choral music did for me. You know, when I went to college, like I mentioned before, and got involved and started hanging out with all these people who were so unapologetic about their love and passion for music, I started to see myself in choral music, in the performing arts, because there were some, you know, the really sort of stereotypical extroverted people, but also people who I saw were just like me that were also on this path. And um that's sort of my why. Like every time I step in front of a choir, it's to help open the door and give young people in particular that experience of seeing themselves in a more expansive way, seeing more of their authentic selves and making a more comfortable space for them to express that.

SPEAKER_01 12:25

How do you get the best out of young people?

SPEAKER_00 12:29

Well, I think it's believing in them. You know, we we as a society, I think, have a tendency to not believe they can achieve what they actually can. I've seen young people just rise and crash through the ceiling of what anybody thought they would be, would be capable of doing. That's a really special thing to be a part of a process that empowers them and helps them to see past what maybe limitations they had put on themselves. And and that's what I feel is my role as a director of youth choirs in particular, is to to help them realize the potential that I might see in them that they don't even see in themselves quite yet.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

And I think I think when you're working with with young people particularly, um what's amazing about about choir directors like yourself is that there is no room for ego when you're working with young people. Because they don't care. They look up to you no matter what, because you are leading them and they have to they are trying to believe in you, they want to believe in you, and they are seeing that you're making a difference to what they're doing. There's no room room for your for your ego. It's it's with with adults uh egos get in the way. I I hate it. Yeah and I you know I I don't I don't I don't I don't warm to big egos because for me uh everything I do is built up within me. I feel that I'm not doing a job, I feel I am I am it, I am the thing. So I don't I don't look at myself and think, oh, here's you know Russell Scott and he's done this and he's done this and done this. I'm just me. I'm just doing what I feel from the soul. And I think that's what we do, particularly I think with young people.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Yeah, you know, if you're in front of a choir of young people, they could care less about your resume or what you've accomplished or whether or not you have doctor in front of your name. They they don't care about any of that stuff. They see you, like you said, as the as the leader, and they wanna wanna have a transcendent moving experience. And if they find that they respect and uh have a love and admiration for the person that is leading them, they will give everything to the process. And that that's man, I mean, I I've had so many powerful experiences with with young people because of that that just unabashed willingness to give of themselves. It's a it's a really special gift that young people have.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Do you do you enjoy working with with young people more than adults? That's a question. Well, that's a loaded question, Russell.

SPEAKER_00 15:30

Thanks for that.

SPEAKER_01 15:32

Um what I mean by that is is do you get do you get more back? Do you get more back from from kids generally?

SPEAKER_00 15:40

Well So a caveat to that. I mean, I I do enjoy working with like professionals and adults collegiate level and beyond because there's there's a level of repertoire that that is really exciting to be able to access and and to be able to get an artistic product uh really quickly. That's exciting. Um but there's something about I it's probably the ego thing, it's probably where they are on their human development journey. But there's something about that period of discovery with young people that's that's really special, that you know, um, prior to the age of 20 or so, they're they're really discovering what their true loves are, their true passions. They might discover their their first transcendent experience with choral music at that time. You know, maybe they sing their first Eric Whitaker piece and that does something to them. Or I don't know. It it kind of keeps me young and keeps me keeps me connected to what really brought me into the field in the first place. And that that keeps me coming back.

SPEAKER_01 16:57

Yeah, it's uh it's it's an amazing thing when you walk into a rehearsal room and you you walk into adults, um, and I and I I agree with absolutely what you said. Artistically, when you're working with professional choirs that just sight read it and just get it, you know, it challenges you in a completely different way musically, and that's a wonderful, wonderful thing to experience. When you walk into an adult community choir, for example, it's very different because they all have day jobs. Uh they're they're there because they've chosen to be there and been forced, they're just coming for some fun and to to make some great music, and you try and work with them to a very high standard. And then you walk into a room with kids and in a rehearsal room, you've got to get their attention very quickly, and you have to get their trust very quickly. How do you how do you do that?

SPEAKER_00 17:43

It is going after the artistry right away. Um that that's the key in. I I for me. I I think there are some brilliant people who have this sort of electric persona on the outside, and they are able to bring young people in that way. For me, it's opening opening the door with the artistry that that opens everything up, their their willingness to want to work for it. When they when they have just that little bit of like that wow factor, I capitalize on that and build on that, and and they start to discover more and more and more, and they realize that the more they work for it, the more of those experiences they're gonna have over time.

Rehearsal Pacing And Repertoire Sequencing

SPEAKER_01 18:37

Now I know we have many uh youth choir directors that listen uh to this show, which is fantastic. Um, how how much uh preparation do you need when you're working with a youth choir, perhaps over an adult choir? And when you walk into the room, two questions. When you walk into the rehearsal room the very first time with a brand new piece, how would you approach that rehearsal?

SPEAKER_00 19:02

Okay. So starting with the preparation piece, it's a matter of being very careful about how you structure your time. Um so you you can't, you know, beat a horse till it's blue in the face for an hour and a half with a single piece. You need to uh you need to have a pace that that moves and is really is really thoughtful in that way. Programming the repertoire you do, making sure that you have a piece that's right in that pocket of what they're capable of, having a piece that's a little bit beyond them and maybe even what they think is capable of. And then something maybe that's a little bit on the the easier side that they you can pull some artistry out of it right up right away. All of that needs to be happening um at the same time in the in the programming and building up in the rehearsal with that, not starting with something too hard, you know, sequencing, getting the brain primed so that they can tackle some of that more difficult repertoire later in the rehearsal, and then always ending with something that they love. And by the way, this I think is pretty important with choirs of all ages. Um, but I I think it's it's really paramount with with youth choirs that that pacing and thoughtfulness, thoughtfulness of how you work through the rehearsal. And you have to remind me what the second part of your question was.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

When you walk into the rehearsal room with a brand new piece. Oh, a brand new piece. What's the first thing you do?

SPEAKER_00 20:44

Yeah, find a moment in the piece that you can make art with right away. So maybe it's you know, five pages in, there's a unison spot there where they can they can get bought in right away. You never want to dive into the the most difficult thing and try to tackle that first. Um yeah, especially if it's if it's a more advanced piece of music. So and and that's really key to how I approach all aspects of the rehearsal, whether it's teaching a new piece or the the very first moments of of warm-up, we're always after the artistry, always teaching the artistry and getting the sound production that we want to go after right away, all the time.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

So, how much work do you do technically in terms of vocal technique with youth choirs?

SPEAKER_00 21:37

A lot. Um, in fact, one of my degrees is in vocal performance, and I found that to be one of my kind of secret weapons, I think, is is my approach to vocal technique. Because when you're working with a youth choir, chances are most of those kids don't take private vocal lessons. So the choir director. Is their voice teacher in addition to their choir director? So I'm constantly reinforcing healthy sound production and breath support, uh good vocal technique, and and then teaching them hard how to be artists.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

How do we how do we teach good breath control to really breathe properly rather than singing from their throat? How do we do that with young children? How do we get them to you know dip into it and start trying to breathe properly? Because it's very very difficult to explain to a you know a 10-year-old, for example.

Start New Music With Artistry

SPEAKER_00 22:38

Yes. Breath support is a it's a term that gets thrown around a lot in choir spaces. A lot of choir directors, myself included, are guilty of like, hey, let's have some more breath support. What does that mean to somebody who's hasn't, well, first of all, doesn't have the vocabulary that we might, you know, studying music and what what is your crico-erritoid and you know your transverse oblique abdominal muscles? Like nobody knows what any of that is. Uh to me, I try to trick them into it, uh um, having a grounded sense of pedagogy and knowing what what works. So oftentimes I will have the kids put their uh hands on their bottom ribs, their 12th rib, and just little sips like that have a tendency to pretty easily expand the the lower part of the ribs and and relax the abdominal muscles out so that the diaphragm can can do its thing. So they can feel that. And then a long exhalation on an S or an SH uses about the same amount of air as a mezzoforte open vowel. So that's a way for them to feel the connection. But then throughout the rehearsal, we revisit that sense of connected breath. And the way I describe breath support is that as you expel the error, as you sing through a phrase, you're not letting the mechanism collapse. You're keeping it open and suspended. That way, when it's time for the next breath, everything's all set. You don't have to, if you're letting the mechanism collapse, then you're having to reset your posture and and then what happens over time, the posture doesn't get reset, and then you're you're using a more uh or a less supported uh sound.

Breath Support Kids Can Feel

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Yeah. It's interesting because in in primary school, certainly here in the UK, when you when you see kids and schools are trying to get them to sing, um they're always they're always singing from their throat. That's the first thing. Because the the teachers are always telling them to sing out, sing out, sing out. So they're almost shouting the sound. And they're just they're just taking a breath. You tell them to take a breath, their shoulders go popped up in the air, there's nothing going on uh in the in the middle, uh, you're not seeing anything going on with the ribs at all, uh, the stomach's not moving. And then when you because of that, when when kids start secondary school, if they haven't been singing uh in their youth in a in a in a young choir, or they've been singing haven't been singing in primary school correctly, they really struggle to then have good breath control, and that's when they're starting, you know, their voice is cracking, and obviously it's harder for boys. Um but in fact I I've worked with many students, even in their late teens, that if they're not breathing properly, you know, they're struggling on the on the top end of their voice, they start a slight crack at the end of each note they sing. And to try and get them to then breathe and concentrate their breath, and what you're saying is absolutely fantastic because you're absolutely right. It's about understanding how it feels and engaging with what should happen physically, they can then begin to relax their throat, they can relax their chest, and they breathe from from their stomach, and out the sound comes. How do we help those people that haven't had that that great training uh at a young age to connect with their body when when they've been they've got into these terrible habits of singing really badly because they're singing from their throat, can't hold notes very long, they're cracking at the top. How do we how do we help them get over that?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

I mean, I would again that's my bread and butter. I would say a majority of the people I encounter have not had like a great amount of of training. So that that's a a constant area of focus for me. Um a lot of it has to do with tension transfer, moving tension, like you know, a lot of choir directors will say, Oh, you got to relax, no tension, no tension. Well, you do need tension, but we don't need tension in the areas that constrict our vocal production. So a lot of times when I when I'm doing a warm-up, if I hear some of that tension creeping into the sound, you know, body movement. So it might be bending at the knees, it might be uh a hand gesture that with the palm down going up like that, just to bring them back to, oh, yes, I need tension in other places of my body. And I I'm tricking them again, finding little ways to get them without even realizing it, because it if you say relax your jaw, chances are there's gonna be more tension in their jaw because they're gonna be thinking about what their jaw is doing. You have to find ways to you know trick them into releasing the jaw. Other little tricks, you know, putting your fingers in front of your ear and wiggling your jaw side to side until you feel that little cave appear in front of your ear, you know, that that's always a good indication that you've created some some relaxation and some space there. Um yeah, again, they they think it you you have to find ways that they think it's kind of kind of cool and kind of fun. You know, like, oh, there's a little hole in front of my ear when my jaw relaxes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 28:16

It has a visual, doesn't it? It has to be visual, they have to be able to photograph, imagine something.

SPEAKER_00 28:21

Yeah, there's a lot of imagery, there's a lot of sensations involved. Imagery and sensation is is much more powerful than description at that age. Um, you know, once you get into college and you you start to build that vocabulary, that you know, if I were to step in front of a a professional choir, and you know, it does happen where they they might get a little bit lazy at times and the tension starts creeping into the sound. It's not as free as I know it could be. I might just tell them, like, hey, relax here. You know, it we need to tenors, you need to lighten that D sharp because you're carrying a little bit too much weight up there. But you know, those sort of description, you know, talking about the Pisaggio might not be helpful for a 16-year-old boy who's just trying to get the coordination and the vocal folds to touch in a way that's that's healthy with the proper subglottal pressure.

SPEAKER_01 29:26

So have you have you worked a lot with um boys whose voices are breaking?

unknown 29:34

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

You must have to do that.

SPEAKER_00 29:35

Yeah, definitely. So before I took this job with Pacific Youth Choir, I taught high school choir in Colorado. And every year that I taught there, I had an entry-level ninth grade tenor-based choir. And uh so I was dealing with that every year of my my teaching career. So I I got to, you know, being a becoming quote unquote successful as a choral director, it's a lot of trial and error. It's in my case, it was it was mostly error, but I did find a few things that had a tendency to to work with them and come on, give us sure. Yeah, and I'll I'll just first say that that's actually where I feel the most pride is working with like the top choir, the top auditioned ensemble in your program, like that's just fun. You can really get into the artistic nuance, but like the trenches of the real teaching happens with with kids where when you're trying to get them to match pitch for the first time or whatever it might be. So that that's actually where I felt a lot of a lot of pride. Uh one thing with with young boys in particular, uh developing their falsetto. So coming coming in from it above, so many choral directors uh try to start at the bottom and go up with it, and then what happens is you you carry a lot of weight up, and then tension and improper breath control, all that, all of that just happens. Um developing the falsetto, playing around with it until they can find that uh medium place, you know, that voie mix voice, that that voice that's in between their falsetto and their chess voice, where it's you know, and you just have to normalize the voice cracks. Yeah, too. Like they'll they'll giggle, you know, the first little little part of it, first week or two, but then it's just hey, this is part of it. And then of course my voice still cracks occasionally.

Tension Transfer And Vowel Clarity

SPEAKER_01 31:48

So we're all we're all human. We're all human. That's that's the way it is. It's interesting you're talking about tension because I I I go on and on and on about tension um with my choir members and with with students as well, because one of my pet hates um is uh a very closed mouth when when you're singing. Um and a lot of jaw movement when they're singing, and particularly when you're singing, you know, R's and E's and O's and O's and all you know, all the or just all the I I love uh I was trained with open vowels, classically trained. As a as an opera singer, as a classical singer, you sing with open vowels. And though and I teach uh everything I do, I teach with open vowels because I believe in keeping the jaw as relaxed as possible, just opening up the space and letting the sound come out and do the work with your tongue. Uh and do the work with a jaw only if you need to, with obviously to to articulate the the words, etc. etc. It's very difficult, however, especially I find with ad adults, is is to change a habit of a lifetime. Open up the vowels, you know, keep nice and relaxed, don't have a wobbly jaw, just just relax and just open your mouth and sing.

SPEAKER_00 32:57

Well, that's easier said than done, isn't it? Oh, 100%. I think most people don't realize how big the tongue is. You know, and then in in sp spoken speech, there there's different ways of, you know, like here in the United States, probably in particular, when we uh produce an L, when people speak an L, they have a tendency to do it with the back of their tongue. And then they they don't realize that when they're singing a word with an L in it, then they're doing the same thing. But if you if you do a sung pitch and you produce an L with the back of the tongue, what happens? That back of the tongue comes up and just fills all that space with tongue tissue. And so having to separate, like, okay, this this works best for singing, even though we we don't speak it that way, you know. That a lot of times I'll I'll tell people of all age, like, remind them singing is an exaggeration of speech. So, you know, there there are certain things that we don't do quite the same way, and we we have to be okay with that. I find that to be a bigger challenge when we're singing a language that's in our the language that we we speak primarily, that some of those spoken habits start to creep into our our singing, and we have to we have to work against that. And what what you talked about with the teaching an old dog a new trick kind of thing with with people who have been singing a very long time and have those habits pretty pretty engaged. I mean, that is a that's a huge challenge.

SPEAKER_01 34:40

We're not gonna get to the bottom of it, have a solution to that one because every because we all think we have time when it comes to uh when it comes to female voices, um, and although you know uh girls' voices don't break, they but they do change, obviously, in in a very similar way in the in the in the uh in their teens, because obviously they don't have the same voice they had as a six-year-old when they're fifteen. How do you how do you deal with the the the girls particularly who all want to sing very, very low? They no longer want to sing in falsetto because uh you know that's that's what we do as a child child. We sing in falsetto, you know, in in their mind. Um there's a place for it all, you know, chess, falsetto, whatever it is, the mix, wherever wherever, it depends on the on the piece we're doing, as you know. But but how do we deal with the with this with the people that have that they want to sing much lower? And and and ultimately, as an as an adult, they they may end up with a very low voice. And do they go into the tenors or do they sing in falsetto and sing into alto or or soprano?

SPEAKER_00 35:47

Yeah, um, head voice is the default, especially with um, you know, the younger female voices. So uh starting warm-ups in that medium-high part of the range and and coming down. You know, I'm also not opposed to allowing young women to access their their chess voice. I I think there's something that kind of feels empowering about that. And so, you know, I'm not fully against that, but that is the part of their their voice that they're they're naturally more comfortable with at that point in their development. So I spend a lot more time just getting them comfortable in their head voice, in in that upper part of their range, and having them practice coming down in their range and gradually making the change over and not that that sudden jolting, almost cracking into the the chest voice, the belt voice. But uh finding again, it's it's similar to to the concept we were talking about with tenors and basses, where there is an in-between place, and uh sopranos and altos need to to be able to find that as well.

SPEAKER_01 37:05

What's what's your thoughts on female tenors?

Navigating Changing Voices In Teens

SPEAKER_00 37:10

Oh, um I don't know. I mean, I I haven't really encountered very many situations where there were um women singing in the tenor section. I mean outside of uh you know singers who will do it for other reasons related to like gender identity and and so forth, which I'm I'm as supportive as I can in terms of making sure that there's a place where they can feel most like themselves.

SPEAKER_01 37:43

Um are you are you talking more like with that or more about like maybe there's uh an older person like in a church something and they yeah exactly as a as an adult, you know, I have to there so I was gonna say there are many female choirs um here in the UK, um as they are all over the world, of course, and they they often will try to so sing in four parts as well, I have to say. But separate to that, I did have um a lady come to my choir once who wanted to sing bass. She signed up for a session and said, I'd like to sing bass bass. And she turned up and I I said, Are you sure you want to sing bass? I put her with all the the basses, down here, you know. And she's trying to sing down there, and I said, What on earth are you doing? Not only could I does it sound a little bit abnormal, but it it it's completely it's completely damaging your voice because you can barely get a sound out and you're just croaking down the bottom. I moved her straight to the altos, she sang in falsetto and sounded fantastic. Uh that was the uh change. But I but I do come across many female females in this country that that do sing in in all female choirs who will sing a ten apart and they'll sing very low in their chest voice. Interesting. Um yeah. Not so much in the US?

SPEAKER_00 38:54

Yeah, no, well, not so much. Um, I am remembering uh a church choir I was a part of back in Colorado before I moved here to Oregon, uh, there was uh a lady who sang tenor. She just happened to have like a real naturally really low voice, and that was the more comfortable place for her. Um but that you know, in terms of that being the reason for for singing in the in the tenor section, that that's about the only instance I can think of. Most of it, you know, when we're dealing with uh younger people, it's it's finding a spot where they're they're most comfortable with their gender expression.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And you've got to, and also you've obviously you you've got to separate the voices for the piece of music that you're that you're singing and splitting it up accordingly, but obviously you'll always choose something that's appropriate uh for the voices that that you're that you're using. Yeah, 100%. It's interesting you talk about being comfortable because when um certainly when somebody joins a choir, uh sometimes they join a choir with with you know not huge amounts of choral experience. They don't know what voice they are. Am I a soprano? Am I an alto, tenor bass, what am I? So you know, often I'm I'm sure lots of choir directors experience this. They have people turning up and saying, I'm unsure what voice part I am. Um my way of of figuring that out, and I always say to them is it should be what's comfortable to sing, that you can get the biggest range you can you can without straining at the bottom, without straining at the top. And it's about finding your place and being comfortable because you have to be able to sing out, you have to be able to project a sound well, but you've also must not strain. And straining can be very, very damaging. Do you find do you find there's a lot of strain in uh in younger voices? Do they tend to strain, particularly as their voice is changing? How do you cope with that?

SPEAKER_00 40:47

I mean, that that's always something we're dealing with. However, when I'm doing a vocal range assessment, you know, sometimes somebody might think, based on whatever their previous experience was, that they're an alto. But I'll I'll get them up, you know, above the staff, and I'll hear this beautiful kind of lyrical tone come out, and I'll I'll see it on their face, like, oh, that sounded weird. Like, okay, I don't think it sounded weird. I think maybe it felt weird because you haven't been given the opportunity to explore that part of your range before. And then I'll ask them more specifically, like, do you feel tension? Well, no, no, but it it feels kind of weird, you know. And like, okay, well, probably what you're feeling is you're you're accessing the most full version of head voice you've had the chance to do. Um, but then there's always the the issue of everybody likes to be in their speaking voice, male, female, everybody. So when we go up, people want to carry that weight up. So we're we're constantly you know fighting against those natural tendencies.

Career Highlights And Closing Requests

SPEAKER_01 42:02

Do you have some career highlights in terms of your choral performances that you've done over the years with uh with youth choirs particularly?

SPEAKER_00 42:12

Yes. Um I mean, many, uh too many to count, but one fairly recently, about a year ago, I had the opportunity to conduct the junior and senior honor choir at the National ACDA conference in Dallas, Texas, the American Choral Directors Association. Um, there were something like 2,700 juniors and seniors that auditioned for that choir alone, and they they whittled it down to 300. Um, so it was such an incredibly talented, dedicated, passionate group of kids. And I remember when I so I had four days to work with them, and then we presented a concert. And I remember when I got up in front of them and just started making some initial sounds. It was it was some of the most beautiful sound I had ever heard. And that was such a uh an enjoyable challenge for me to say, okay, these kids sound amazing. Where are we going to take them from an artistic perspective? And going on that journey, you know, I I still have some of those kids who are still in touch with me. You know, the they'll reach out on Instagram and uh let them know what they're what they've decided to like, Mr. Mounty. Do you remember that we talked about like I wasn't sure if I wanted I've decided to go and and study music in college, this is where I'm going to school. And um, it was just through the music I I developed such a strong connection with that group of kids, and that that will always be uh a highlight for me.

SPEAKER_01 43:54

There's there's never a better moment, is there, of when you when you're working with people that you've never worked before. And then suddenly this amazing sound comes out that you had no idea that that that could be possibly made. And I it happened to me recently as well. I was conducting a a Christmas concert um at the Berlin Philharmonic, which was just insanely exciting, as you can imagine. And um a bit of a about like you, we had I had about 300 singers. Uh we had some youth choirs and and adult choirs together, and uh we were working on a Christmas piece, and we'd done the rehearsal, and the rehearsal sounded great. But then the concert came and you stand on the platform, you raise your baton, and they start singing, and you just go, whoa, that's a moment I'm never gonna forget that sound. And it sounded like a very similar experience.

SPEAKER_00 44:41

It was, and the the concert in particular, I I feel like time stood still. You know, it's like you want to call it flow state or or whatever it might be, but I you don't want those moments to end. They're they're peak life experiences, and you know, when there's thousands of people behind you that are you know experiencing the a a certain level of connection with the music and the the human beings on stage as well. I mean it's it's indescribable. It's really special.

SPEAKER_01 45:16

I'm sure there's gonna be many, many more in your career. I mean, you know, the work you're doing is is just fantastic. And it it's been such such a privilege and such a joy talking with you today. Thank you so much for your time, for spending your time talking with us. Uh, I mean, no doubt at all that the choir directors that are listening are just gonna find this so useful and so invaluable. Chris, thank you so much for all you're doing out there, and uh, I I really hope we get to meet at some point.

SPEAKER_00 45:40

Looking forward to that, Russell. Thank you so much for the opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

The amazing Chris Malneu. What a great guy, and such a pleasure chatting with him today. Well, before we finish this episode, I just wanted to share with you an idea I have to feature a segment of your questions in the podcast. So if you face any challenges or you'd like some questions answered, or you've got some ideas, please do drop us a line and get in touch with us. Thank you so much for listening to the choir director podcast. If you've found today's episode valuable, I'd be incredibly grateful if you could leave us a rating and a review. It truly helps us reach more choir directors and share the advice, tips, and knowledge we're learning together. And if it's something resonated with you, just please share the episode with a fellow choir director or music educator, and make sure you click that button and subscribe and follow us so you don't miss any future conversations. If you want to stay connected, join our newsletter. Don't forget the link is in the show notes below, and it's a great way of keeping in touch between episodes. And if you have any questions about today's show, or as I mentioned, there's a topic you'd like us to cover, feel free to reach out. You can find links in the show notes to email us or even leave a voicemail. We'd love to hear from you. And thanks again for being part of this great community. Until next time, keep making great music.