From Developer to 13 Properties in 3 Years | Why Growth Beats Duplexes 📈🏡

In this episode of Moves to Momentum, Jason sits down with property investor and developer Josh to unpack a journey that most investors never see.

After years working in real estate sales, development sites, and large property transactions, Josh realised something surprising:

The biggest wealth wasn’t always in development.

It was in buying the right properties and holding them.

Since making that shift, Josh has built a 13-property investment portfolio in just a few years across Townsville, Darwin and Melbourne.

In this episode we break down:

 Why duplexes and developments aren’t always the best strategy
 How Josh turned $100k deposits into hundreds of thousands in equity
 The biggest mistake investors make: overthinking deals
Why most investors freeze from too much information
Why regional and interstate markets can outperform major cities
How becoming a dad changed Josh’s investing strategy
The simple formula for finding high-growth property markets

If you're stuck analysing deals, watching the market, or waiting for the perfect time to buy — this episode will change how you think about property investing.

Because the biggest difference between investors who build wealth and those who don’t?

They take action.

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

Is there a demand for housing in this era? Is that demand for housing getting more intense or less intense? It's getting more. Okay. Are the average incomes going up in the era? Yes, they are. Great. What's happening with supply? Low building approvals. Mate, this is a recipe for some good price action.

SPEAKER_01 0:14

You go on Instagram these days and there's like a hundred different ways to make money in property, and it's so overwhelming. And I feel like it creates that hesitation, and you're like, oh, I don't know. I'm doing the right thing. This person said this, this person said this. By not buying that first property because of the aspect, I probably missed out on two grand three grand.

SPEAKER_03 0:29

Josh, thanks, mate. Thanks for coming in today. Welcome to the Moose of Momentum Podcast. Josh is a property investor, developer, all around good guy, family man. But tell us, Josh, before we kick off, what's your background before you got into property? What were you like as a kid?

SPEAKER_01 0:44

Yeah, thanks, Jay. It's nice to be here. Um, yeah, look, my background, uh, I had a upbringing in the Sutherland Shire. So grew up in Yowie Bay and then Buraneer. Uh, went to school here locally. A lot of my friends are here locally as well. Um, as I grew up, I uh I guess through my high school years, I did study pretty hard because that was at that point what I thought I needed to do to, I guess, earn the respect of my peers. Um, and I was quite ambitious as well. Um, and look, with that ambition, I think it just probably stemmed from a few different factors. One being the the need to feel like you were accepted by your peers as well. Cause um, I think like at success and making money, like that's what I thought meant the most at that stage of my life.

SPEAKER_03 1:26

You went to an old boy school, same as me. Yeah. And it's just competition, competition, competition all the time.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

With footy or this or that, like all the time. Yeah, a lot of testosterone. Um, and and also look, I think addiction sort of runs in my family as well. So I think I get a lot of that drive from that. Um, and just that that mindset where I I guess once I focus on something, I just want to see it through and I want to try and be the best at it. And you're just full of that competition, like you mentioned.

SPEAKER_03 1:51

That type that element or you know, that um you're saying addictive personality, yeah, it leads, and you f you find that so many successful people have got that um obsession. Yeah, they want to push, they want to push. And once they find something that's ticking, yeah, they just go all in on it. Yeah, for sure. But you got into real estate and working quite young.

SPEAKER_01 2:12

Yeah. So I think my first day in real estate was about 16 years old. It was actually in the office that we're sitting in now, which is a bit weird. Um, but yeah, so almost 17 years ago, I was still at school. Um, my parents uh knew of a local real estate agent who they were friends with. So I came and done some work experience um for a day on a weekend. And I still remember going to my first open home with the boss. And you you meant to stand there at the front of the open home and take down people's names and number. And when the first lady came to the door, I handed her the piece of paper and the pen and asked if she could write her own name down, which was pretty embarrassing. Yeah, pretty much. But yeah, that was a bit embarrassing. But obviously, starting at a young age, you don't really know much, very green. So um, yeah, I learned a lot from being in the industry for a long time and have done a lot of different things. But it's um it's been good. I kind of just fell into it and I really enjoyed it and I saw the opportunity there. And um, as I studied through uni, which I did go to, um, I I just still kept working through real estate at the same time.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

But I'm keen to unpack, like we'll we'll get to it in a minute, but you know, you you've done developments around the Shire, you've done developments around this around Sydney. Yeah, you've done options on many deals around Sydney and south. You've you know invested in property. Yeah, you've got such a va, you've even sold commercial property for goodness' sake. You've got such a vast understanding around property transactions, around property. Uh, I'm keen to unpack what you've learnt along the way, right? But was it just as simple as your parents knew someone and then bang, that got you into real estate? Or was there ever a moment where you're like, nah, I want to do this? Because I think in the media or whatever, there's this image of real estate agents that is a bit flashy, a bit glamorous, or whatever. Did you ever see that, or was it just purely your parents' influence?

SPEAKER_01 3:58

Um, I remember my parents were like always obsessed with buying and selling houses, like principal place of residences. They were just like, they'd go look at properties for a year, and then I'd just be like so sick of going to them with them. And I'd just be like, You guys are never gonna make a decision. But then they would and they'd move and they they made some quite good decisions with property and got some pretty unique properties as well. Um, and just going to the open homes and meeting the real estate agents, I did think that was quite interesting. And I'd sit there and listen to the conversations and I got a lot out of it. Um how old were you when this was happening?

SPEAKER_03 4:28

Are you like teenager? Are you like a primary school?

SPEAKER_01 4:30

Pretty young, like yeah, I'd say from I can remember like memories from maybe like 12. Shit. Um, going to and just sitting listening. There was another there was an old school real estate agent who sold a lot of the waterfronts in the Slovenshire. And I can remember sitting there and my parents were were um in the room and they were just talking about and they were negotiating, and it was just really interesting to listen to. And I just thought it was really cool at that age. Um, but to be honest, I never had the vision of being in real estate. And as I got older, because a lot of my mates did the traditional trade role, I actually felt like real estate sales was almost looked down upon a little bit. Like it was yeah, it was like, oh, you're you're a bit of a wanker or it's a bit flashy or that sort of thing. So um, like long term, I had a vision of more moving into property development or something like that. Um, which yeah, I just that that was what I thought about as more of a younger age. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Is that because your mates were builders or getting into the trade?

SPEAKER_01 5:22

I think so. And then as I got to learn more about it, I just thought there was a lot of money in property development. Like you'd see, like obviously, your big scale developers, like Harry Triggerboff or this big development, and you're like, wow, look at what they've done and what they've created. Um, it just seemed like a good vehicle to create wealth.

SPEAKER_03 5:37

When was that? That seems like there was a bit of a a trigger moment to be like, oh, I'm gonna pursue this thing, I'm gonna do something here.

SPEAKER_01 5:43

Yeah, so I think I got the work experience in in sales. Um, and then I was working through that period um over university, and I was just doing your your door knocking, your cold calls, like all the the gritty stuff. And that was really good for me. I feel like it it sort of set me up for my career.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

And that was just resi stuff from the ship.

SPEAKER_01 6:01

That was just resie stuff, yeah, in the Shire. Just and and just your standard going and door knocking street after street, cold calls after cold calls, and it was good. It built a lot of character. Um, and I think during that time when I was at university, I was actually doing business and engineering. Um, and obviously getting exposed with the structural engineering side of things, you're a bit more exposed to the development and the building and that side of things. Um, it was around that time when I got a role at um Colliers, so like a larger international commercial real estate agency.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:31

And um, I as soon as I finished uni, I went there, worked there for um a bit over a year, but I was exposed to some of the larger transactions, and that's where I started seeing like some of the big development sites selling, and it was it really sparked my interest.

SPEAKER_03 6:44

So you moved to Colliers, and then you start to see these big deals getting put together, and you think, all right, yeah, like I want to be a part of that. Yeah, yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_01 6:50

And start how old were you at this time? Oh, that was like just fresh finishing uni. So it must have been like yeah, early 20s. Early 20s, just ambitious.

SPEAKER_04 7:00

Yeah, just wanting to take on developments.

SPEAKER_01 7:02

Yeah, I remember um I first, so I went worked at Colliers, and then I don't know how, but I just sort of got into this deal and I got along with this owner really well. And he um entrusted me and one of the other agents at the office for a for a um for his property. It was a place in botany, and um, we ended up selling it for like 18 mil. And that was actually my first like personal sale in real estate, which was yeah, it was pretty cool. Yeah, in early 20s, it was pretty cool. Man, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 7:26

What is the commission on something like that?

SPEAKER_01 7:28

Um, I think at the time it was like one and a half percent, but then you got to split it obviously with the other agent, and then the college structures is very different, so you gotta earn up to a certain level, and then you get percentages. Yeah, yeah. But so you don't get the whole thing yourself.

SPEAKER_04 7:42

That's what everyone thinks.

SPEAKER_03 7:43

Everyone just thinks bang one and a half percent. Oh, wow, it's incredible. For sure, for sure. And so you're you you do that deal, you're working at college for a year, and it seems like you're starting to make some decent coins.

SPEAKER_00 7:55

Yeah. Right?

SPEAKER_03 7:55

Yeah. What you know now about property developing and what you know there, like what would what's the advice that you'd give that early 20s year old just getting into it from someone who's seasoned and been doing this for what? You've been in real estate now for well over 15 years.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Yeah, well, I think like at that point, I was still very green. Um, it was probably more after I moved there back to a local agency who I'd started with previously that I got a lot of my um development experience because that's when I was specifically selling sites and I became a partner in the commercial division, and we were putting together sites and some pretty complex transactions, including options and put them calls and that sort of thing. Um, so I really started to develop relationships with developers and get some better knowledge around it all, um, especially around the feasibilities and everything like that. So I think I'm glad that's the path that I took, and I'd still give the same advice. I probably wouldn't change anything. I think at that point to try and go from where I was to trying to do a development. Like, first of all, you need to build up more capital. And second of all, like I still needed a lot more experience before I started trying to do things myself. So um, and I did that. I went and worked and I got a lot of transactions under my belt before I tried to do anything myself.

SPEAKER_03 9:02

So when you move back to the so it seems like you're you're at college, you come back to the local agency, and that's where you're solely working on putting development sites together.

SPEAKER_01 9:10

Yeah, correct. Yeah, that was my specialty. I still did a few commercial sales here and there, but I was like 70, 80% just selling sites and putting them together. Yeah. How long did you do that for? Um, I want to say, so I it must have been about five or six years after I came back. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:28

Good slog.

SPEAKER_01 9:28

Yeah, yeah. It must have been about five or six years. How many deals did you do then, Tom? Oh, I wouldn't know the number, but uh bug me. I honestly have no idea how many, but it was a fair few. Like I um I got REI New South Wales commercial average in a year one year. So I was doing some decent transaction volumes. Um, the biggest site that I sold is actually a local one across the road where we are here in Crenulla. That was for the summits, which is View now. Yep. Um so that was a big transaction and pretty cool part, like I think to be a part of. That's massive. Um and it's it's cool to just see some of those sites now being shaped and actually delivered and knowing that you sort of played a role in making them come together.

SPEAKER_03 10:03

Well, they're still building it now.

SPEAKER_01 10:07

It must have been like, yeah, probably th four years ago or something like that, three, four years ago. It takes that long. Yeah, it does. Well, you like on a site that scale, like you got at least two years of planning, and then the construction periods at least another two years as well. So yeah, it's probably more than two years of planning as well. So yeah, it's a it's a long process.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

So you you've been doing this, it seems like you you're winning some awards as a commercial real estate agent, putting deals together. Um, when do you transition into building your own personal property portfolio or doing your first development deal? What came first?

SPEAKER_01 10:38

Um what came first was I think it was the first uh property that we bought, but it was kind of a hybrid of both because um we bought a unit that was part of a development site. So, and I did that with two mates. Um and it was there was eight units in Cranulla. There's eight units in the block. It was an old rundown block. Uh, I think we bought it for$650. And I'd identified that the site, if you broke it up between all the owners on entitlement, it was worth about a million dollars a unit. So there was a bit of uplift there. Okay. And we thought, okay, great, let's let's buy it, let's jump in. Um, so we did. Um, and I actually remember two of my mates, um, I was in hospital at the time, they came in, signed the contract, and it was like a bit of a funny thing just to get that first deal signed with your mates in that setting. So it's very memorable for me. So have fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:25

Um what are you in hospital for, man?

SPEAKER_01 11:27

I was when I got diagnosed with Crohn's disease. So I lost about like 20 kilos over um about a week period, and then I was in hospital for two weeks. And now I'm on uh Remicate and Fliximab, which is like a um immune suppressant. So that keeps it pretty in check now as well.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

Man, so you're in hospital for getting diagnosed with bones, yeah, and you're still hustling trying to put some birds together.

SPEAKER_01 11:48

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it's a memorable one. But look, to be honest, it ended up being a little bit of a headache, that whole process, because you think about it, and then that's a lesson that I would have learned out of that is there's eight other owners. So you want to sell to a developer, and you've got seven other owners, because there's eight in total. We had one that you've got to convince to want to do the same thing that you want to do. So it's not easy to try and get everybody on the same same board. So we um how often do people ask you that now, right?

SPEAKER_03 12:15

Because I I've not I've never even done something like what you've done, or you try to play a part in doing, and people call me, hey, you know, um, there's a block behind us getting developed. Yeah, you know, uh there's we want to sell to them. We've spoken to her, but we got to get, you know, old mate um at number one involved. And she's been there for 50 years or something. Yeah. How do people ask you about that?

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Oh, for sure, definitely. And like I think my views changed a little bit over the years. Like, as I said, when I bought that, I was like, oh, how good? There's that$650 million uplift. It's just you see that and you're like, that's great, but there's a lot that goes into it. Like we just spoke about how long the process takes as well for planning and settlements. Like most developers will offer a two-year settlement, so you're already waiting that long, but then you've got to convince everybody to sell. And there's been so many deals I've worked on where there's just one or two or three different owners in there that just don't want to play ball. Um, and there is this 75% strata renewal um process now. So you only need 75%, um, which was brought in a while ago, a few years ago now. Um, so that does help things, but it's still hard. It just takes time. And with that one in particular, we it took us probably a year to get all the owners together. We finally sold it to a developer, and then it was a two-year settlement, and the developer went bankrupt before the two-year settlement. So we never got our money and then had to do it again for another year, and then it was another two-year settlement. And we only just got the money, it wasn't even that long ago from now. So it was just such a long process.

SPEAKER_03 13:35

And then how much you make out of it, can I ask?

SPEAKER_01 13:37

Oh, it was probably around that million. So it wasn't worth it in the end. When you when you work it out, so as we I think we ended up getting a million dollars for it, and then by the time you split it between three and you're paying tax, it's like it just wasn't worth it. Yeah, and the other thing for that amount of time. For that amount of time, for sure. Like that that was a lesson. Like, I was like, I'm not gonna do that again. Um is that your advice to people?

SPEAKER_03 13:55

Yes, I think that are trying to convince a a body corporate to multiple people to sell.

SPEAKER_01 14:00

I think it has its place, but you need to know what you're going into. Like, so you if you're gonna buy something in a block where you think it's got development potential, you need to know that it's gonna be a long process and you need to do your numbers and know how much uplift is in there, and you might be waiting five years to get your money. So you just you got you gotta know what you're getting yourself into.

SPEAKER_03 14:18

Like people don't think that. Like, you know, they think bang, you sign the contract, boom, you get the money, you run away. But you're saying there's uh at least a a year or two where there's no cash, you just like or your your whole life basically on pause.

SPEAKER_01 14:31

Almost longer because you've got to convince everyone to sell first and then the settlement's typically two years. So yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:35

So that's a first deal you've already just been paid recently for your first deal.

SPEAKER_01 14:39

That's crazy. I know. Wow.

SPEAKER_04 14:40

And then what where do you go to from there?

SPEAKER_01 14:42

Um, from there, I um I had a little bit of a career change. So that was when I um after I got diagnosed with Crohn's, I sort of decided I wanted to more work for myself. So um, as I as I spoke about, like I had those ambitions to be get into development. So, and I was working with a lot of these developers, seeing how they were making a lot of money and doing well. So Can you define what's a lot of money?

SPEAKER_03 15:03

Because sometimes people say a lot of money. And then like my mum was like, I'm not buying that, that's a lot of money. Yeah. How much is that, mum? Oh, that's 25 bucks. Yeah. Yeah. Sometimes your lot of money talking to developers might be a lot more. Just for a context for some people.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah, I mean, like obviously some of the sites that I was selling, like it it just it depends on the obviously there's a big scale. Like you've got your duplexes and then you've got your sites, which is that large transaction in crowd, that was a hundred million dollar land acquisition. So like the end value is probably over 300 mil. So but obviously that's a that's not there. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:33

That's right. Let's just like everyone loves a dupe. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. What's like just a um normal duplex deal, like or back then? What year are we talking?

SPEAKER_01 15:43

Um, so I well, my first duplex deal that I did, um, which was a principal place of residence deal. Um, I bought that with a mate. So, like one of my best mates, he's a builder. So we bought the land together. We paid about two and a half for it. Um we what years is three, four years ago. Okay. Something like that. Maybe post-COVID. Post-COVID, yeah. It was just after COVID. Yeah. Okay. Um, that was the first like personal one I did as a principal place of residence play. And then we um decided to move into one each. Um, the the land was two and a half, the build was two and a half. Um, obviously you've got your other costs like your um your planning costs, and we did it under CDC, so you didn't have to go through a DA, so it was a lot quicker. Um, I think the whole process just to get it approved took about 10 weeks.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Quickly. You're you're flying through these. Can you explain to people what that is, right? So because some people see they're like, there's a big block, it's got some frontage on it. Yeah. Um, how big to do it under CDC, like how big's a frontage got to be? How what's a site got to look like for someone to be like, I can do it within that?

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Yeah, so that was a um, I think our block was about 650 squares. Yeah. Frontage was just over your 15, like your standard. Um, and it was an R2 zoning. So that's like the cleanest pretty much site that you can have. You can do a CDC R2 zoning um with that frontage. Um, once you go to your environmental zones and stuff like that, you've got to go through a DA, which just takes a longer process. Um, but basically CDC just means compliant development certificate. So you're going through a certifier rather than uh DA through council, which is a quicker process. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:13

You wish you did dupes earlier, or you wish you did other investments?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I think I when I did the dupy, that was when I had the cash to do the dupey. Okay. So like in it's it does need a lot of equity and a lot of cash required. Um, I wouldn't have been able to do that in my early 20s. Yeah. So I where I was at that point in time, I had the capital to be able to do it. So like obviously, I because I couldn't do that in my early 20s, I would have I wish looking back now, I bought some of the more like long-term, your traditional bread and butter properties, long-term hold, built that equity up, and then I could have done more with that, obviously as well.

SPEAKER_00 17:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 17:48

But I didn't. I started late with that. And I think it was honestly a factor of being involved in the industry. It's like I overthought it a lot, and then I saw the big dollars from like the developers, what they were doing, and I was like, I just want to do that. And like I kind of just got, I guess I just had my full focus on that, and I just didn't even really think about like your your traditional long-term stuff. And now looking back on it though, like if you do that at an early age, the compounding effects, like I'd be in a lot different position as I am now.

SPEAKER_03 18:16

I speak to so many people about people either a investment stuff, but local people that don't really understand the space that we're in by investment grade properties in high growth areas and what that can do. A lot of people say to me, Oh, I what I need to do to get ahead is do a duplex site. Yeah, just yeah, I mean, yeah, average people around here are saying that to me. Yeah, yeah. So there's this still there's this uh misconception. You you've done multiple. How many have you done? How many duplexes?

SPEAKER_01 18:46

I I've done that as my personal one, and then I've done through um we had a development business called Nox, and we did another one through that, and then the rest of what we did was more sort of higher multi-res stuff with options and DAs and that.

SPEAKER_03 18:56

Okay, yeah. So you've done two dupes deals in the last five years. Yeah. And you've you've made decent money off them. Yeah. And you still wish you did the investment stuff.

SPEAKER_01 19:06

Definitely. Well, like if you're waiting around to build up the capital to be able to do a duplex, you're just missing out on so much wasted time. Like I said, like I couldn't do that at an earlier stage. So if if I was just sitting around saving the money up to be able to do a duplex, you just you just wasted five years. And also, like that was a good outcome. Like, not all duplex sites are like that. And it becomes harder and harder. Like build costs are higher. There are, there is a bit of a supply around for duplexes. So you've got to just make sure you're doing the right thing. I feel like a lot of people, especially like your mom and dad want to get into it as well, they're not doing the numbers properly. Like they're missing out on your GST, or they're not calculating your uh interest cost properly, and they're just doing it sort of back of the napkin thing, and they're being a bit too optimistic about your sales. Like, that's the thing with development. You can make a feasibility look good no matter what. Like, so you can look at something and be like, oh yeah, I'll get three mil for those, but really like it's 2.8's the market. That's you just overcooked it by 400 grand on two duplexes, or you build costs, you haven't factored in something. So it's like you gotta be diligent and really conservative with your numbers.

SPEAKER_03 20:05

I feel like that's happening so much right now.

SPEAKER_01 20:07

For sure.

SPEAKER_03 20:08

And let's say fast forward, yeah, 2026 now. Yeah. What is a normal, let's say you do that duplex deal you did with your mate. Yeah, you do it now.

SPEAKER_00 20:17

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 20:18

What's the numbers look like now? What are you buying that site for now? What are you building it for now?

SPEAKER_01 20:22

Well, to be honest, like the duplex sites, like in that pocket. So that was in Woolware. Um and the GP sites probably haven't the the actual land prices haven't moved too much. Like there was obviously that boom in COVID and they all went up really quick. And then post-COVID, like I paid two and a half for that now. There was one around the corner that sold for there was two that sold side by side, which were just over two and a half. They probably weren't as good, but still, like it hasn't grown a lot that land value. And even the end sales, the duplexes, some of them are probably selling for a little bit less than what they were even then. Yeah, yeah. It's gone, it's gone, it's smidge back. It's probably like yeah, it's just because of the supply thing. So you got you gotta you gotta you gotta have a bit of a point of difference. Like with how we did ours, we had basements, we had lifts, so we kind of tried to differentiate it a little bit. Um, but yeah, I mean, the numbers haven't changed too much. Um, if anything, I think it's the end sales are a little bit harder.

SPEAKER_03 21:13

Man, that's that's uh that's eye-opening to me because people are telling me out there they feel like they need to do a duplex to get ahead.

SPEAKER_01 21:20

Yeah. And if you look at your return on investment and you're buying in a really good growth area, like that's why I've sort of changed tax a bit and I've obviously gone very heavy into the longer-term hold plays. Um, and I just I just did the numbers and looked at it. Like you just look at your return on your investment, like say the duplex example. I think I had to put in to make that return, I think it was around a million dollars off the top of my head. Um so you're talking capital. Yeah, capital to to do my side. So obviously there's the other side too. And we probably could have gone like a second tier lender out and maybe had to put in less money, but we went with a big bank.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 21:55

Um, so there's a million dollars capital going in and you're making four fifty, that's forty five percent return on your money. So that's the The way I like to look at investing. And when you do the figures on your high growth plays, and like a lot of the times they beat development. Like if you work out, okay, I'm buying a 500 grand property, I've got to put in 100 grand plus stamps or whatever it is. So roughly around that. And then you're getting over 100 grand in growth in each consecutive year over the next two years. It might grow by 300 grand in the next two years. And you look at that as your return on your money invested.

SPEAKER_00 22:26

Like it's yeah, cash on cash return on cash return.

SPEAKER_01 22:28

This stuff is ridiculous. It is. And that's what appealed to me. And that's why I've obviously gone and tried to focus a lot on that as well.

SPEAKER_03 22:34

When I show some people, I bought my first property in Perth for um$350,000. My parents were guarantoring that loan. And then off the back of it, we ended up taking out equity once. We take out equity twice. Yeah, we bought for$350,000. We only would have paid stamps, which means you over$10,000.

unknown 22:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Now we've made over$500,000 out of that thing. What's the cash on cash return? We paid stamps, which is$10,000. And that thing's worth$850.

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Yeah, it's amazing. And then it's the cash on cash for that. And then it's also what else it's bought you. So it's like it's just compound just compound. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

You've done those two dupe deals.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:06

And then what you transition into buying like what are we talking? Investment grade growth assets. When did that happen? Well, what year was that? And what was the like, I've got to move into this? What happened to you?

SPEAKER_01 23:20

Yeah, um, I mean, there's there is still a lot in between that. Um, and I kind of went from as I said, I moved out of the traditional real estate sales role and then I got into the development side of things. What we were doing more so than even the duplexes was like uh call options. So we would go around and identify old unit blocks um where there'd be a number of owners in there, and we would basically put the site together. So we would do a feasibility, work it out, say the I don't know, the the give us a bit more detail.

SPEAKER_04 23:48

Give us a bit more skill, put the deal together, we all feas uh bang done. Um what's involved?

SPEAKER_01 23:55

Yeah. So say say you got 10 units there. Um, we would basically do a feasibility, what could you put on the site, first of all? And then what you're gonna sell that product for, what are you gonna build it for? And then what does your profit margin look at it? So if I look at a block of 10 units and I see each unit's worth a million dollars, the existing unit's worth 10 mil. If I do a feasibility and see that the site's worth 15 million based off those metrics I just mentioned, then I know there's five million dollars uplift in the land. So I know that I can pay the owners 50% more than what the unit's worth.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 24:27

And at that point, I know it's motivating enough for them. So not every block works like that. You've got to sort of look and spend a lot of time going through different accounts or mapping and so you're saying to me that each unit's worth a mil.

SPEAKER_03 24:39

Yeah. But you're paying 15. 50, yeah, correct. Well, you're you're paying that extra bill. Yeah, correct.

SPEAKER_01 24:44

As round numbers, about yeah. So very compelling. Yeah, correct. And that's what, because because as a developer, a call option, which is basically it's an it's not an unconditional contract. It's your right to buy at an agreed price over a certain time. So um basically it's like it's like stock trading. So you have a call option and you have put in call options. A call option is literally the buyer's right to exercise at that price over a given time period. So you might say, I'm gonna give you uh 5% now, and then it's a 24-month call option. And if everything goes well with planning and and all that, then I'm gonna exercise that call option. But you have to have agreed on the price at the start.

SPEAKER_00 25:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

So and that defers the stamp duty too. So you're not paying the stamp duty up front. Um, but then you have a put and call option, but that is essentially the same as an unconditional contract because the put part is the vendor's right to exercise the option deed. And at the end of the option, what you have attached to it is a is a contract of sale, your standard contract. So if the vendor exercises their put, then you must exchange on the contracts and that's a time and buy some certain time. Correct. Yeah. So standard um standard larger development sites is usually between sort of 18 and 24 months. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:52

Give it, I don't know if you'd be comfortable sharing this. Give us your best and your worst. Like best, best and worst option.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Yeah, okay. Um best one, I mean, there's probably there's two that are kind of similar. Um, but like one recently, there was a a new rezoning around Sydney, which is your low to mid-rise housing policy.

SPEAKER_03 26:13

That was wild last year.

SPEAKER_01 26:14

Yeah, massive. Like the biggest rezoning that Sydney's had in a long time. Um, so it's unlocked a lot of sites, but in only particular areas, really. Um, because still, even with that new zoning, some of them aren't feasible.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:25

Just because of the way construction costs are at the moment. Um, so we identified that that was coming out as publicly available information. Um, and we just went and looked at different pockets of where we thought we could pick up some sites, and we ended up optioning up about 13 houses. Um, and that that made up, I think it was four or five sites.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

Which where are we at? Where which where part which part of Sydney?

SPEAKER_01 26:45

Which areas? Um in the Southern Shire, we did so we had two sites in Ingadine, one was five houses and the other one was two houses. Um, the five-house lot was able to do 100 units on there. I think the the developers actually just lodged 110 units. Um, the other two house sites, roughly around 45 units once it was rezoned. Um, and then we had one in Miranda, two houses there. We had some houses in Coma, but that zoning didn't come out. So we ended up losing the money on that. Um, and then we had one in Darling Point, but we never ended up um finding a buyer for that one.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Okay. And are you when you say that's the best, the best one, the one in Ingrading sounds good.

SPEAKER_01 27:23

Yeah, yeah. So there was the two in Ingading were quite good. Um, so we ended up uh the five site, um, which was five houses in a row, the houses were worth existing probably around 1.4. We paid them a bit over$2 million. So they got a fair bit of uplift.

SPEAKER_03 27:37

Pumped.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

Um it was a it was a cool option. So we had a two-year option period on that. And then just through my relationships that I had when I was in real estate sales selling developers, I just reached out to a few and I had a um uh developer who does some larger scale stuff because it was a hundred unit site. Um, we agreed and he ended up um paying us up front. So we got it was a little under two million bucks on that. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:00

Just for doing the fees, making it start, yeah, core development.

SPEAKER_01 28:04

Doing some concepts, plans. Yeah. Yeah. And um, so yeah, I mean, it worked out well. Like the owners got a lot of uplift. We did well by passing it on. Um, and obviously it wasn't that simple. There was a lot of times that we never thought this zoning was coming out and we had invested a bit of money at that point. Um, so yeah, look, we're grateful that it came out and it did work out well. The other Ingadine one we did well on as well. Um, and now because like there's a lot of those owners that got in early, they they were able to transact, but because there's a lot of that stock coming on, because you imagine like all of the training stations have been rezoned. So there's so much opportunity there. The people that are trying to sell now, the rates have just come down because there's obviously going to be a bit of a supply issue coming as well. Um so getting in early is important, which is why we tried to sort of be there before the zoning came out.

SPEAKER_03 28:46

That's like a once-in-a-lifetime type of situation that happens.

SPEAKER_01 28:50

Yeah, correct. Like those zonings, like now, if you go try and knock on those doors and it's just too hard. Like it's yeah, you got you got to get in early. Um, and not all of them were like that. That was a recent one. What's a bad one? What's a is it already you want to tell me? Yeah, no, no, for sure. Um, I mean, there was there was there was plenty other good ones as well before the other mark, but in terms of a bad one, um there were plenty other good ones. Um the other bad one is probably one that we're um what's a bad one? Well, I guess those ones in Como, like they the the zoning just didn't come out. Like, so you you're like you're just you're dusting it straight away.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

You just lose whatever whatever time and money you put into it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Which it wasn't a heap of money. I think we the way we structured it, we only put 5,000 down on each home, but then we pay legal fees and the time involved. So that was a bit of money, but it's nothing crazy. But that's the thing with options, they're not really risky. Like you're not building. The the the risk comes when you build. So if we're like talking about um things that have worked out the worst, I guess it'd probably be the experience, the motel experience. Um, which yeah, like we so we kind of veered from what we were good at. We're doing the options, we're do we'll get it putting together those bigger sites, we're getting partners in some of them to deliver them and get like a profit share. Um, other times we're just getting the DA with a partner and then we would onsell it. Um so that worked out well, and it's low risk because you're not actually delivering the product, you're packaging it up, creating the value, and then onselling it to a developer. Um, some we did did follow through, but it's just, yeah, that construction risk is where you got to really manage through that development process. Um, and with the motel, we kind of veered off and we saw there was an opportunity there to maybe create some cash flow because development in options is very poor on your cash flow. You get big, chunky fees, um, but sometimes you don't get paid for six months, nine months, a year. So we thought uh looking at the motel, we thought there's an opportunity there. We could buy an old motel, renovate it, add value, and then operate the business for the cash flow. Um, and look, we looked at it, and obviously it was a bit of a new venture for us. The numbers on face value worked, which is like what we're talking about before feasibilities. You can kind of make anything look good on paper, but circumstances can change. So um that was at a time where build costs were escalating. Um, so the build costs went up. The rates, we bought it at 3%, the rates went to six over six. Um, so your holding costs doubled straight away. And we were, our debt levels were sort of between eight and 10 mil. So on that amount of money, it's it's a significant increase in your holding costs. Um and it's like almost a triple whammy. You got the increasing holding costs, you got cap rates, so the valuation gets worse because the the interest rates go up and it's essentially valued on a cap rate.

SPEAKER_03 31:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_01 31:34

Um, and then you've got people wanting to spend less money, so they're not traveling as much, they're not going down there as much. So it was the whole industry really hit hard as soon as we got open. Um, so look, it is what it is. It it's sort of it was a a bit of a lesson um in itself, but it was it was a good experience and like it was a great business what we created. We're very proud of the product we created.

SPEAKER_03 31:54

And I remember seeing this the stuff you guys releasing, like you you revamped this place to be fun, funky, friendly, trendy.

SPEAKER_01 32:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 32:02

And it was like, oh wow, this is like come on the scene.

SPEAKER_01 32:05

Yeah, yeah. No, it was look, it was a great place. We got Richard Stanisich, which is a big interior um architect from the city involved. So um it was cool working with them, and we did like a different theme for each building, we had different colours, and it was like a bit of a Moroccan theme. And it was it turned out great. And the business actually operated well. It's probably how we structured it. So we had 100% leverage. We had we borrowed from the bank and then we had an investor in as well. And that investor had a profit share, plus they had a coupon of their money, um, which meant we were 100% leverage. So when rates went from 3% to 6%, it's just you feel it. You feel it. Um that's right.

SPEAKER_03 32:38

Yeah, and then uh you transition after this into investment properties, yeah. Yep, yeah. Capital growth assets. What was your first deal when it comes to regional or interstate? You know, let's let's just call them growth assets.

SPEAKER_01 32:58

Yeah, so after it was probably actually during that whole because that motel business went on for a while. So um the first actual investment property buy and hold typical strategy was the one that you bought me.

SPEAKER_00 33:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:11

Yeah. Yeah. So that was the one in Townsville. Um, I can't remember how many years ago that was now, but it's performed really well. I think we paid$520 for it. It's like valued at$750 now. Um, again, we're talking about return on cash invested. It's only been, I think, two and a half, three. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 33:25

Wouldn't it be three years? It'll be two, two, something years.

SPEAKER_01 33:27

Yeah.

unknown 33:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 33:28

So look, it's um, yeah, that was my first one. That got me the taste of it.

SPEAKER_03 33:32

And um what what was it about it? Like you you bought you bought in Townsville, you bought, but you buy for 500, you've been doing, you put in options here in the Shire, you're doing all this other stuff, you're doing duplexes, and now all of a sudden you want to buy a place in Townsville. How does that shift?

SPEAKER_01 33:47

It's funny. I know it is a bit of a different um, a different strategy, and it is a big shift. Um I put it down to a few things. Like I I definitely had a bit of a change in my risk tolerance uh when I had my daughter. So I I, as I said earlier, I always wanted to just go bigger, do big developments, do all this stuff. And um, once I had my daughter, my risk tolerance changed a lot. And I and it was at a time as well when it was a lot of developers were going under. So, like through COVID, there's a lot of builders that basically went under because they had done fixed price contracts and the construction cost went through the roof. And I'd seen that happen to a few developers and the stress that it created as well. So I kind of started after my daughter was born, I just kind of started thinking a bit more long term and slow things down a bit and start building.

SPEAKER_03 34:33

Oh, okay. I find that to people getting into this place or getting into this idea or strategy of building wealth in regional or or interstate growth assets, there's a bit of fear. There's a bit of fear, they're nervous, like it's all sight on scene. You layer the contract up to protect you, you'll you're doing a deal off a walkthrough video or an old inspection report. Um, is that different or the same, or what's that like compared to doing a duplex deal or putting some option for$15 million?

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Honestly, like I had I remember buying that first property. I think you showed me another one in Perth before that, and I said no, because I was scared. I just had the fear, even though I'd had all that experience with like development and the motel and like other other things. I've been working in real estate for so much time, it's almost like it was worth it. I'm just overthinking things and I'm looking at it and I'm like, oh, it's like I just pick you just picking everything out of it instead of focusing on what's good. Just like everything. I think on the first one in Perth, we're talking about like what aspect it was and like what um how much growth the market's already had, and like just like little things, and like you you hear commentary of other BAs and other people talking about stuff on social media, and then you start questioning yourself. And look, I think that held me back from doing that for a long time. And then once I took that action since then, I've I've taken a lot more action, and I haven't been to inspect any of the investment properties I've bought since then.

SPEAKER_03 35:57

That's a huge piece, man. So, like the the space you would have dealt in, yeah, aspect would be a massive thing. Yeah, yeah. A massive thing. And now all of a sudden you're in this place where you're not even using that as a point of reference to make an investment decision where that would have led it before. So now what how many properties do you have? Like, so you've you've had this skill set of building up uh you know duplex sites and all this type of stuff. Now you've changing your skill set. How many properties do you got now?

SPEAKER_01 36:26

I got uh 13 investments, and I just put my principal place of residence, so 14.

SPEAKER_03 36:32

14 properties in your property portfolio, and you've done that in uh three, two, two, three year window.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, yeah. It has been a short time frame. Yeah, yeah, man. Yeah, yeah, about three, about that, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:44

From the first deal to your 13th deal, what has the decision making changed?

SPEAKER_01 36:51

Just do things a lot faster. Like I basically just try and make decisions faster, try not to overthink everything because that's what I did for my younger years is like I would just overthink the deals of and I just wouldn't do it. And that's what's held me back. So I just try to obviously you want to do make the right decisions, you want to know where to buy. I think location is very important and knowing where the property sits in in the cycle, because you obviously want to maximize that growth period, especially in the first few years. Um, and I think unlocking that equity is important so you can keep going. So making sure you're buying in the right structure, making sure that there's that equity there, whether it's through growth or whether it's through buying well. Um and and then just doing it.

SPEAKER_03 37:30

Doing it. It's it's so crazy. Hey, you're the area, I 100% agree with you to be buying in the right area at the right price. Okay, is towns rule at that stage the right area? Yes, it was. Great. Is the aspect or all these other things? It it matters, but it to me, they're considerations. That's a consideration. What you've got to do is is there a demand for housing in this area? Is that demand for housing getting more intense or less intense? It's getting more. Okay. Are the average incomes going up in the area? Yes, they are. Great. What's happening with supply? Low building approvals. Man, this is a recipe for some good price action. But you bought for what, five something? Five, I think it was$520. It's$7.50 now.$7.50. So what's your how much would you put in? I think a bit over$100.

SPEAKER_00 38:13

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:14

A bit over$100, and you've turned that$100 into close to$250 now. So your cash on cash return in two and a half years is what, 200 something?

SPEAKER_01 38:21

Yeah, it's amazing. And then by not buying that Perth property because of the the aspect, I probably missed out on two, three hundred grand. So it's just like that's why it's so important to like you get the fundamentals right, and those little things, like in the long run, that it's it don't matter. You're just gonna take the action.

SPEAKER_03 38:36

Man, you've gone from let's call it newbie investor to seasoned investor in a two-year window. What what is your plan? What's your strategy with your property portfolio?

SPEAKER_01 38:47

Um, look, buying the principal place of residence has been a big, big thing. Um, I got a kid coming in April, so we get the keys on the 9th of March. Um do a little bit of work, move into that. That's obviously um been a big purchase in the scheme of the whole portfolio. So I'm probably in a stage right now where I'm actually gonna, I'm setting up my SMSF, so I'm gonna buy one in my super. Um, and then I'll probably just sit back and focus on work and business for the remainder of the year and we'll see what happens, and then I'll probably keep going after that point.

SPEAKER_03 39:18

I find when I talk to clients, there's normally two strategies they want, two goals they want the most.

SPEAKER_00 39:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:24

I want a nice owner, occupy a house in the Shire or, you know, whatever, somewhere, and that's gonna cost me two and a half to three and a half. That's what I want. I might have the income, or I can see that I'm gonna have the income in the next few years, but I don't have the capital to buy it. That's one goal. And then the other goal is I want to replace my income. I make 150 grand a year. How do I make that through property so that I can just do what they want? Do you have a goal like that? Or is it a bit of both?

SPEAKER_01 39:48

Yeah, definitely. It is a bit of both. Um, my goal would be to have my PPR paid off. Like, so what we bought is a like it's a good, good sized block, north facing, 880 squares, got a good home on it, but it does need a bit of work. So my steps would be like my my my nearest goals will be to do the pool, do the landscaping at the back, renovate the house, and then sort of make that home somewhere where we could stay for a long time. Um, and then long term, I would like to have that paid off and have some um income-producing assets. So have a I have a passive income goal to um, yeah, I guess replace replace income and be able to live like a good life where you can go on holidays and not have to worry about work.

SPEAKER_03 40:26

So it's both. Yeah, both. Both. Well, you're you're still pretty young, what you're early 30s, 33. You're still you're still giving this a crack. What would you what advice would you give yourself from let's even just go back to two and a half years from when you're ripping that deal in Townsville to now? What what advice is it that you're giving yourself?

SPEAKER_01 40:44

Make decisions faster. Yeah. Just just make decisions faster, do it. And um, yeah, like you got to actually do the thing. I think like, and probably not trying to listen to all of the advice. Like find things that you agree with and find a methodology that you agree with and a strategy, and then follow that. Because like you go on Instagram these days, and there's like a hundred different ways to make money on your property, and it's so overwhelming. And I feel like it creates that hesitation and you're like, oh, I don't know if I'm doing the right thing. This person said this, this person said this, and then you're just in indecision and you're not you're not getting anywhere because you're not making moves.

SPEAKER_03 41:17

There's so many ways to skin the cat in this game in property. You know, we know mates who are developing, we know mates who are, you know, just buying and flipping. We know guys who are doing the same stuff as we're doing, building growth assets and chasing commercials later on. There's so many different ways to do it, but you're right. You've got to take action and have a clear what's your goal, what's this is my strategy, and I'm just gonna execute on that for the next three, four, five years. Like, look what you've done in two and a half years, three years. Tell us quickly, and then I'm gonna get your opinions on the property market and then just expectations around property before we wrap it up. But what is your property portfolio? Can you give us just a quick where are they? I'm happy just for you to say states. You know, you've bought uh 13 properties in a short amount of time. Where does it all sit?

SPEAKER_01 41:58

Uh, so I got the the one in Townsville, I've got two in Darwin, which I bought a couple years ago, which is good timing. Like there's seen a lot of growth there now.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 42:05

Um, and then I've got 10 in Melbourne. 10 in Melbourne. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:09

So very heavy in Vic.

SPEAKER_01 42:10

Yeah, I just I just see the value there at the moment. Yeah. Um, like, yeah, a lot of the properties that I'm buying are below replacement value. Um, the valuations that I was getting on the way in were quite strong. So I was able to recycle the equity quickly. Um, and I just, yeah, I just feel like there's a lot of value there.

SPEAKER_03 42:26

Yeah, I totally agree, man. I like the I've I've bought in all of those markets you're talking about for myself personally and for a lot of clients. And what's your view on the property market now? Like just holistically, Australian property market. And then if you want to deep dive into the investing space, happy for you to give your opinion.

SPEAKER_01 42:41

Look, I I think there's definitely markets within markets, like we were speaking about. Like you just got to time the cycles. And I feel like it moves around to state to state. I like to think of investing as a process of elimination. Like you look at what each capital city and what state has done in the last five years, and like places like say Brisbane or Adelaide or Perth, like they've already doubled. So I like to look at different areas which maybe haven't had as much growth and they're getting into that early phase of the cycle. So you're going to get that full run. Um, so I think look, Victoria and Melbourne, I think they're very early stages still in that cycle. There's still a lot of value there. Um, and that's where I'm sort of focusing on.

SPEAKER_03 43:18

As anything else? Any other things that you're you're focusing on or interested in?

SPEAKER_01 43:23

Um, look, as a market as a whole, I think it'll be interesting to see what happens with interest rates. Obviously, they just raised them this week. Um, it'll be interesting to see what they happened through the rest of the year as well. Um, obviously, I bought my principal place of residence and that's in the Southernshire. Sydney's usually a little bit more affected by rates. So um, but I kind of tried to block out the noise and I was like, if I'm just gonna wait till rates go up and then you buy after, like you just I just didn't want to sit on the fence, like we spoke about, make decisions. So I decided to buy and move on. Um, and just focus on what I can control.

SPEAKER_03 43:55

Yeah. Man, a lot of the time I try and for me personally as well, I want to look at the deal. Months make a yes or a no decision. I've got to make the best decision with the information I've got in front of me. Is this the right market? With the information I've got in front of me, yes, it is. Great. Does this still stack? When I say stack, it's have I looked at all the comparable sales? Have I done flood checks, social housing checks, all like a bunch of due diligence? I think it's worth 700. I can close it right now for 690. Bang, do the deal, keep moving. Because if I'm gonna stress about five grand, two grand, three grand, whatever, I'm now waiting another month or two to see another property that's in my hitting range. I'm probably gonna pay an extra five ticks, seven, ten grand or whatever on it. Do the deal, keep moving. It seems so crazy when it's your first deal to hear that. But over time, that's what happens, right? Tell me, man. This is something that I'm really passionate about before we wrap. I find that maybe it's a Sydney thing, maybe it's a Shire thing, I don't know. But I I find that right now, men or dads, fathers have got this pressure to buy property or to own a property in Sydney. Like, do you ever come across that? Like, what's your experience with expectations of I don't know, I don't want to say success, but it's mainly property. I go I go for a run in the morning and like you're walking past people, this guy's talking about property prices, this guy's talking about property price. It's 5 30 in the morning, guys. Like, and they're they must be talking about it to their mates because they're stressed about it and they they need to vent, so they need to talk about it. Have you do experience that?

SPEAKER_01 45:27

Oh, 100%. I mean, like I obviously only rent vested up until this point, um, which is a little bit different to, I guess, a lot of people around the Southern Chire, for instance, but I felt that pressure. And I think really I've only made the decision more recently because I felt the pressure even more because my wife was having the second kid and she was going through all that nesting, and she really wanted the security and that that home, um, which look, it's a probably more of a mental thing, really, and an emotional thing.

SPEAKER_02 45:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Um, because it's like you can rent a place and some of our rentals, we were there for five years. So like you still have that security, really. Um, but it is a big factor in I think seeing what other people are doing. So like I would go around to some of my mates' house who've got the big backyard, the pool, and then I'd like leave there, but oh, I really want that for my kids. Like, I think you're constantly comparing to other people, and it does feel a bit shit sometimes. And um, I think if you let that get to you too much, it can really mess with your headspace about whether you're making the right decisions. And I think it works in the reverse too. Like, I think there's so many people now, like we spoke about on social media, they're saying you should only rent vests. And then for me, I was like, fuck, now I'm making the wrong decision by going to buy a house. And I felt bad about that. So it's like you kind of need to just focus on your scenario, what's best for you, and what's going to get you ahead. That's what I think is the most important. That's right.

SPEAKER_03 46:48

I it's ridiculous. It's often that people say this to me at the kids' soccer or some some type of event. It's like, oh, I've just I've bought these people maybe one or two investment properties, and they're like, oh, we've just bought our principal place of residence. We know it's not the right decision, but we really just wanted to get something and you know, we loved it, and blah, blah. Man, you have got a life, you've got a family, you've got kids, like they live the life you want to live. And the reasons why I started on this whole investment journey for me and Jamie Lee is to have options in our life. Bang, we sold one of our houses in Rockhampton that funded this business today, and now we're sitting in a mad office in the Shire with eight staff. Like, that was because I made an investment decision three years ago and that I could sell and that I wasn't stressed out, but like that's what it's for. In my eyes, I'm building a property portfolio to give myself options to live the life I want. And that's me. I wanted to wrap with something like that. Just experience you've been slogging it out, you've been doing options, you've been taking big risks and big swings. Now you've gone what some people what you're saying is like um a conservative approach and more long term, but you've done multiple property transactions the last three years and then bought your principal place of residence. I'm really proud to see what you're doing and to see the journey you're going on. And I'm excited to see what you're gonna do with the house. And then when you're back in the market, what are you gonna do? What type of deals are you gonna do? But Josh, thank you so much for coming today. It was really nice hearing more about your story and just to hear about uh your property portfolio. So thanks so much for joining us.

SPEAKER_01 48:13

Thanks, Jace, mate. It's really uh good to be here and I love what you guys are doing as well.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

Thanks so much for listening to the Moves to Momentum podcast. If you got any value out of this episode, please give us a like or subscribe. Or if you think this is relevant to any one of your friends or family, please flick it to them so they can have a listen.