How a 29-Year-Old Built $750K in Property Growth in Just 18 Months 👀📈

This week on the Moves to Momentum podcast, Jason Titus sits down with one of Buyers Edge's very first clients, Tom Hardwick.

At just 29 years old, Tom has built an impressive property portfolio while growing a successful Range Rover specialist business from the ground up.

But property wasn't his first investment.

He tried shares, crypto, e-commerce and startup investing before discovering the strategy that completely changed his financial future.

In this episode, we cover:

• 📈 How Tom achieved over $750,000 in capital growth in just 18 months
• 🏡 Why he treats his property portfolio like a business
• 💰 The power of using equity to keep building wealth
• 🚀 The mindset and hustle behind growing both a business and a property portfolio before turning 30
• 🎯 Why taking action early can completely change your future

If you're serious about building long-term wealth through property, this is an episode you won't want to miss.

🎧 Listen now

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Always want to have a really big life, wanted a good life. And I realized the way to do that, I guess, is through experiences. And to have those experiences, you kind of need money.

SPEAKER_01 0:07

You've been doing this stuff since you're what like 27. It's inspiring to see you go so hard after it and do it.

SPEAKER_00 0:13

If you want to go places, you can't worry about someone else's feelings, unfortunately. You're gonna run your portfolio like a business when you're trying to scale it.

SPEAKER_01 0:21

750k in capital growth in 18 months, man, some people can't even earn that in a year, let alone save that in a year. Was that the goal from the whole time? Tom Hardwick, welcome to the Moves to Momentum podcast. Mate, you're one of my first ever clients at Buys Edge. So it's so nice to have you on the podcast. You're one of the day ones. We want to unpack your personal story, you got the business, you got your property portfolio going, the lessons you've learned along the way, and why you're all doing this. But man, thanks so much for coming in.

SPEAKER_00 0:50

Uh thanks for having me on, Jace. It is it is nice to be here. I think, yeah, I was one of your first original clients. And yeah, it's it's exciting to downpack it because before I came on here, I didn't really know too much about my own portfolio. So I've done a bit of research into it and learnt a lot more. So it's exciting to unpack.

SPEAKER_01 1:06

It happens like that, eh? Like you're building the property portfolio and you're just like, that's a good deal. It's an opportunity. All right, I'll take it. And then opportunities come up, and what have I got? What am I doing? It seems funny to say that, huh?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Yes, yeah, it does though. And it is good to look back and it's just been really fast paced, right? It hasn't been a long time and it's just been picking up deals here, there. So it is good to see where I'm at and then take a bit of a step back and to look at what's forward as well.

SPEAKER_01 1:31

Do you mind if I poke your proje a little bit, like peel back some layers? Because you're like the most common client that we work with here at Buyer's Edge, business owner, either um aspiring to be family man, settle down or something like that in the next few years, or they are that already. Like that's the kind of person that we seem to attract to. Normally business owners or people who are high up in some type of career. Um when you first got into all this stuff, what like got you into it? Why why did you start to do it?

SPEAKER_00 2:07

I think I kind of, you know, I've always had a bit of a thing about getting getting ahead. Always want to have a really big life, wanted a good life. And I realized the way to do that, I guess, is through experiences. And to have those experiences, you kind of need money, you know. Yeah. A lot of you know, there's a lot of people out there that are struggling, I guess, you know, to to make ends meet and and to do things, right? And I never wanted to be that kind of person. So I think the way to get there was to have money. How do you get money? Uh investing. And I've tried uh a lot of different ways investing, shares, crypto, and an e-commerce store, seed company investments. Uh so I've tried it all and uh never really found anything that stuck until I landed myself, you know, buying a deal and properties.

SPEAKER_01 2:51

Shit, how good that man?

SPEAKER_00 2:52

It is good.

SPEAKER_01 2:53

And you're like you're how old are you? Late 20s? 29 next month. Man, you've I know guys that are in their 40s, man, that haven't even had a swing of the bat, and you're having a swing of the bat at crypto, stocks, seed bike, uh angel investing, like you know, investing in startups. That is um but where did it before we go into that a bit deeper? Your personal story, you know, you're you're still a young dude. Um, how'd you go to school? Like, what was it like growing up?

SPEAKER_00 3:23

Yeah, so I grew up in Southernshire, like had a pretty good family, pretty good family life, you know. Uh high school, I think um, you know, I was bullied early on in high school. So I think that kind of broke me down a little bit and I always wanted to kind of prove something, you know, maybe to other people and myself. So I feel like that really kind of got things going. And then once I left school early to become a mechanic, I wanted to race cars, um, but I couldn't afford it. You know, I had a go-kart. Like a piastri. Yeah. You're a piastri? Yes. No way! So I had a go-kart, but I couldn't afford to get it to the races, right? I would go out of the practices and I it would break down and I got an engine rebuild. So I sunk all of my money into that, right? So and then I moved into being a mechanic because it was the next best thing. Wanted to be a mechanic for like a pit crew for like via supercars or F1 or something, but uh never quite made it that far. But uh yeah, then I guess you know, along the way I kind of got a little bit comfortable doing some things. Then with um, I think there was a few times where I think one of my ex's moms was like, Hey, how are you gonna support a family on this mechanics wage income and stuff like that? So I think that was a bit of a turning point for me where I was like, I need to start making some money, you know, how am I gonna make money? And that's where I started, I guess, looking at you know different ways and investing.

SPEAKER_01 4:42

So you're just like a mechanic locally?

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Yes. So just down in Kiraway. Okay. So we got Range Rover. So my business is Land Rover Range Rover Specialist. That's been running now for about seven years, I think.

SPEAKER_01 4:52

Wow, man.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

Yeah, so it's it's been a good But you're 29.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So you started that business when you were 22 years old.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

Yeah, so I was doing a lot of like stuff, you know, before work, after work, weekends, cashies, all that. And then it got to a point where you know I was earning probably six or seven times my income after work.

SPEAKER_01 5:11

Cashies.

SPEAKER_00 5:12

Yeah. So I had a contract with a uh prestige car dealership. Yeah. Right. Through, you know, the start of COVID, I was doing a lot. So I was doing a lot of Range Rovers like every day. And then I, you know, left my full-time job and thought, okay, here we go. This is sweet. And then I ended up losing a contract with this prestige dealership, and I kind of went back and had nothing. So I had to kind of work, build my business from there, you know. So it's been a ride.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Let's take a couple of steps back. So you you're I want to go back to the go-karting man. I'm a big Formula One lover. And when did when did you pack that in? Was that like in your teens? You're like, no, I'm not doing this anymore.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

Yeah, I was about 16. Um, I had the go-kart, I was running for about a year, you know, in and out of practice and stuff. I got down quick enough to be on the track because there's certain times you need to be to a delay to race with, you know, the the races. So I was hitting that in practice, but I just couldn't consistently keep the the go-kart running.

SPEAKER_01 6:14

So it's expensive, eh?

SPEAKER_00 6:15

Yeah. So that I finished that up about, you know, 17. And that was when I pretty much got my left school and then got got a full-time job.

SPEAKER_01 6:22

So you were like on the brink of competing quite seriously.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

Yeah, yeah. Well, that's what I really wanted to do. I mean, I don't know. I was up there probably with, you know, the go-kart guys, like the races. I don't know how I would have gone doing it. I would have liked to think I would have done well, but yeah.

SPEAKER_01 6:39

Unreal, man. And so it's getting too expensive to run the go-karts. No, sweet. We're just gonna go all in on the mechanic trade. Yep.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

And you did you finish school? Like what did you do? I left school in the end of year 11. So yeah, left school end of year 11, went full time, yeah. And then I finished my apprenticeship in I got signed off in three years. So that time I was about 20. Yeah. And then I ended up leaving that. I went to the airport working on heavy diesel and doing a bit of like fitting tracking systems to the ground support equipment. And then did about three months of that and didn't like it. And I realized I'm gonna go back to Range Rover and then pretty much start my business on the side, you know, and then it kind of went from there.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

Love it, man. Heaps of people have asked me to ask you, when did you get the starch?

SPEAKER_00 7:26

Oh, this has been going probably only the last six months or so.

SPEAKER_01 7:30

Last six months, okay. So because I thought maybe that was also from back then too, you know? Early days, maybe late teens, early twenties.

SPEAKER_00 7:37

Yeah, I wish. I couldn't grow this until about six months ago. So that's why I've got it. Um but no, now my my mistress says she likes it. So not this long, I don't think, but um, but now I can grow it. I like it.

SPEAKER_01 7:50

Okay, awesome, man. And then you you finally get the the nerve, I don't know, like you you get the courage to start up your business. Or maybe it's just the cash. You're making so much cash from the side hustle that it's got to become the main thing. And then you get the real kick in the ball straight away. Boom, lose the contract. What happened? Like, explain that to us because that would rattle anyone, man.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah, I guess I was probably pretty lucky because I think I was about 23 at the time when this was, and I was living at home still, so my expenses were pretty low. So I was doing maybe like one car a day, trying, I was doing letterbox drops to like try and get customers. I tried Facebook ads, had no idea what I was doing. I was losing a lot of money on Facebook ads. Um, so I put it all through, and then I kind of, you know, did that for about six months and I wasn't really going anywhere. And then I kind of was getting smashed with tax bills because I was like, I was doing my own bookkeeping, but I was double counting everything. So I was double paying tax and GST on everything. So then I kind of sat down and said, look, I I really need to, you know, I'm 23 now, I need to work out what I'm gonna do. You know, it felt like a midlife crisis when I was 23. You know, I uh broke up with my partner at the time and kind of just said, I need to really give this a good good go and kind of went pretty much all in from there. Wow. And then yeah, I guess 12 months after that, I hired my first employee. And you've at this stage, did you have the lease it curwee at that stage? No. So there's a bit of a story to that as well. So I was in a mobile van. So I was because it was COVID, I was I was servicing people's cars in their driveways. So that was that was, I guess, what I was going for. And then I yeah, put another guy on 12 months later with another van. We were running around in vans, and then I got a uh ended up getting a workshop in Rockdale or Arncliffe, sorry. And uh I was there for about six months until won't go into too much detail, but one day I came in and the guy was subleasing off food, actually taking his life inside like our workshop. Oh shit, like with the car. So, and it turns out we weren't supposed to be subleasing. So the owner came in pretty much the next day and just came in, changed all locks, locked all of our stuff in there, with customers' cars in there, pretty much everything. So it that Bro, you've been through some stuff already. So that took uh yeah, that was yes, I had to restart again pretty much. Found a workshop that I bought. I was working in a mate's workshop for about four weeks. We transported all the cars over there, finished them off, and then I secured where I am now, but I had to pay a very large sum to take over someone else's leave, uh lease, yeah, um, to get in there. But since then it's been yeah, a bit smooth as sailing. So it's just been good.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

Bro, you within the first year of your business, you're just taking shots.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

Yeah, I think I was pretty naive, to be honest. Like I didn't really know what I was doing, what I was getting myself into. So, and I've always been pretty positive. Like I've always been known that I can make things work if something go sideways. So it didn't really affect me too much at the time, which is strange. You know, looking back now, I just don't know. You know, what's this guy doing? Yeah, it just keeps going. So it's been, yeah, it's been a bit of a ride, but where I am now, it's it's definitely been worth it. Now we've got a team of like seven guys, revenue like profits are doubling every year, and like revenue's just growing. So it's yeah. That's unreal. So it's it's been good. Is that is that because Range Rovers are um not very reliable. Everyone says that on the internet. That's that's part of the reason. I mean, they're not as bad as people say, half the reason is getting someone good to look after them, and then the other half is I think the customer service from when things do go wrong. Oh, because they things do go wrong, but you know, you know, if you look after people the right way and and you know how to fix them, which is what we do, we we don't have too many complaints.

SPEAKER_01 11:40

Beespay.

SPEAKER_00 11:41

And you just in Kiwi. Yeah, we're just in Kiwi.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Oh, unreal. What's your business name? It's Rover X. Rover X. Rover X. Rover X. And when did the property investing start? Because I think I met you in 2024.

SPEAKER_00 11:53

Yes. I think, yeah, or early 25. But yeah, we I think we might have spoken. Was it 24? Yeah. But um, so that started. Really, one of my friends had a unit in Miranda, probably he used the first homeowner's grant to get in. And he bought that place, had it for like two, three years, and then he, I guess, made no money on it. And then he bought a place in Perth. And then that kind of got the conversation going to me. Hey, when are you gonna, you know, because we're very similar-minded. Hey, when are you gonna get a place, you know? Um, and I brought it up to my parents. My mum's like, no way. Perth, no way. Why'd you do that? Yeah, exactly. So I kind of that kind of shut me down for a little bit. I mean, I didn't really have a lot of money going through at that time. And then I guess my friend then pulled all his equity out of his Perth one, then bought in Melbourne about the end of 2024.

SPEAKER_01 12:43

Let's go.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

And was like, he kind of told, told me about how it worked, how to get into it, and then we were just searching realestate.com, ended up finding a place on there, you know, it was like a three-bedroom house with a granny flat out the back. Remember a place in Deep Park, wasn't it? Yeah, yes, for like 650 grand, right? And I was like, how does that make sense? Like, you you can't get that anywhere around here for something like that.

SPEAKER_01 13:06

Well, Deep Park's not far from uh Melbourne City, like 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Yeah, it's not so that made a lot of sense to me. And uh looking at, I guess the rental yield isn't great, it's still like it's close to five percent, which is still pretty good compared to here, right? So that was you know, I guess the start of the journey. And then I think I came and spoke to you not long after that because I got smashed with some I didn't look read the reports properly, had a lot of troubles with the with the property.

SPEAKER_01 13:35

You it's it I I I find this happens a bit, you know. I I get the the Tom Hardwick phone call. Hey, I've got some information and I acted on it, which is good, you know. You want people to do that. And then to paraphrase you, you bought the place and it had a granny flat out the back, but from memory it wasn't council approved, and you couldn't uh officially sublet it. Like you couldn't lease it out on a separate lease to the main dwelling. And the numbers look good on paper if you're renting them out separately, but it's hard to do that. And then all of a sudden you're now renting it to a real small portion of the market that wants to put Nana out the back or the kids at the back and pay a higher rent. Um, which agents do that type of stuff. And what was there a lesson in that?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Or yeah, definitely. I think yeah, looking into that, when I was buying it, the agent was like, Yeah, yeah, all good. Like you can, you know, rent it out separately, this had the other. And then, like, the same property manager that I used for the company was like, No, you can't do that. And then so definitely a lesson here. Yeah, definitely listen, be here, be careful. Um, you know, listening to selling agents because they just want to sell the property, you know.

SPEAKER_01 14:50

So your brother's selling agent.

SPEAKER_00 14:52

Yes, he is. Uh in a highland.

SPEAKER_01 14:54

So he's selling up for store out here.

SPEAKER_00 14:56

He's one of the good ones, I think.

SPEAKER_01 14:58

He's pretty good. But but um Will, Will what Will works with Brightley, and those boys are just like every time I see him, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen, listen.

SPEAKER_00 15:07

I know they're they're real busy. I mean, we'll probably get into it, but they just sold one of my other properties last week, um, down in Crenella. The apartment. Yes. So I saw that. So, which I mean, I that was, you know, when I bought it compared to the now the market's changed a bit, and you know, they still got me a really great result, you know. Boys.

SPEAKER_01 15:26

So you I think when I met you as well, I think you had just done the deal in Deer Park and then you had a contract on that place, and you're waiting for it to be built or something.

SPEAKER_00 15:37

So that's the different that's a different one. But yes, that is still being built. That's still being built. I know I jumped probably past that one, but I try not to count it. Um because it hasn't been built yet? It hasn't been built yet. Um, and I'm still not sure what I'm gonna do with it. You know, like can we rip through your portfolio quickly? For sure. You you've got Deer Park, number one. Deer Park number one. And you paid $650 for that. $655 for that one.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

$655. 55 Deer Park.

SPEAKER_00 16:01

What else you got? So next one was the deal that we put together in Mount Clear.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Yep, in Ballarat.

SPEAKER_00 16:07

Yes. That was that. And what we have that, I think we have $4.95. Paid for that one. Yep. And then next one would be the what unit I've got in Cronulla, which is yeah, in Marlowe Road. Cranalla? That was uh a mill and thirty. And then I've got uh a place up in Eleonora in uh the Gold Coast, GC. And that was 1.43. Yeah, then we got uh a unit up in Driver in Cramer.

SPEAKER_01 16:42

Um Driver, yeah, in Darwin?

SPEAKER_00 16:45

Yes, in Darwin. And that was 382 500. Nice. And then was the last one? Tralgan. Tralgan. Tralgan, yeah, going down there. That was that was 670.

SPEAKER_01 17:00

670 4v2?

SPEAKER_00 17:02

Yes. And last one, we've got another one up in Darwin, which uh which is a house, this one. And that was 710.

unknown 17:12

Yeah, no.

SPEAKER_01 17:13

That's a big place, that one. And then what the the Cornella apartment still to be built has got an asterisk next to it.

SPEAKER_00 17:19

That's got an asterisk next to it. Yeah, just don't know exactly what I'm gonna do with that yet. You know, my strategy has changed since like that was the obviously the first one I got. And then since then, you know, I I like the strategy of, you know, rent vesting and you know buying into state.

SPEAKER_01 17:34

Uh let me just quickly do the math of the original purchase prices. Do you have on you the um market value of like what they're all worth now?

SPEAKER_00 17:42

Yeah, portfolio value is 6.1.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

All right. So your property portfolio would be worth just a bit over 5.3 million on purchases that you've done. How long did it like from when you did Deer Park, what that was end of 24, start of 25? End of 24. So that's about 18 months. 18 months. You've built a seven property portfolio in 18 months, man. That's wild. That's like that's the same type of risk taking that someone in their early 20s is starting up a brand new business, you know, in a couple of vans. Yeah, that's unreal, man. That's worth let's uh let's call it 5.3 million purchases, and now what's your property portfolio worth now? So it's sitting around 6.1. 6.1 million. So you've made in 18 months. What are we talking? What are we talking? I'm just gonna specifically do the mass. 750, I think, somewhere around that. 750k in capital growth in 18 months. I mean, some people can't even earn that in a year, let alone save that in a year, you know. Was that the goal from the whole time?

SPEAKER_00 18:47

Yeah, I guess it comes back to, you know, I've always wanted yeah, money in some way or the other, and I've just found the right vehicle now. You know, this is just makes so much sense to me. And and I've always had a real appetite for risk, you know. Yes. This um, you know, at times, you know, I've drained the bank accounts, I've overleveraged myself to get to this point, but now I'm coming, you know, a bit out of the other side of it, and I don't think I'll probably do that again. You know, probably be a bit smarter in the way I do it.

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:14

Um, but yeah, it's been a it's been a ride. It's been a ride.

SPEAKER_01 19:18

But and they they're all very different. I mean, you you're talking Melbourne Metro, you're you're in Ballarat, you're in Crenala, you're in the Gold Coast, you're in Regal Vic again, you're in Darwin, you know, you're you're you're across a lot of areas. Can you tell us what are the say, like the the five biggest lessons you've got from building your puppy portfolio?

SPEAKER_00 19:39

I guess um, look, definitely I've had some big lessons with that first deer park property that I bought, you know, listening to the selling agent, you know, listening to whatever they say. Um, I guess I would have liked to, you know, done my own research a bit further or you know, had a bit more of an idea. Get get some more knowledge, I guess, would definitely be up there. More knowledge.

SPEAKER_01 20:03

And then doing a bit more research.

SPEAKER_00 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:06

Definitely. When you're when you're playing with that kind of money, I think, yeah, listening to the right kind of knowledge and a bit more research.

SPEAKER_01 20:12

Yeah. What else?

SPEAKER_00 20:14

Then I guess getting the right team around you, you know, um, definitely big when it comes to, you know, structuring, you know, debt correctly through, you know, the right broker and the and a good accountant too.

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:27

And and I guess as well, like buyers agent comes into that as well, you know, like people, you know, talk about, you know, oh, the fees are expensive to do so. But I think it, you know, it pays for itself in more ways, you know, than anything, right? Like you get it generally most of the time on the way into the deal, and then everything is just so simplified, you know, it's like it makes the process much easier.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

But you've done the process seven times last 18 months.

SPEAKER_00 20:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 20:54

So getting the right team around you, how many times have you changed accountant or broker?

SPEAKER_00 21:00

So I've been with the same broker from day one, and he has dealt with um clients who are building portfolios, which definitely, definitely helped. Um, and he knew how to structure things and which way and what's possible and what's not possible. Nice. Um, accountant, look, I've changed three, I've had three different accountants in the last 18 months. Yeah. Because yeah, just haven't found someone, I guess, that you know understands what I'm trying to do, you know. So now I I think you know, I've got definitely got the right team around me now.

SPEAKER_01 21:31

And it's funny that you I I when I talk to people at the start, they're like, I've got this accountant, I want to use them. Oh, there's some trust. And the idea of like getting all of that context that you've given that uh accountant, having to rebuild that context with someone else is sometimes like a bit of a barrier for people to change. But then it's like the just the frustration of dealing with that and moving things over and meeting someone, even finding someone. It's difficult. But I find that when people are doing what you're doing, going hard, building a property portfolio, trying to build their wealth, you quickly start leveling up. And it's like, how do I build the people around me that understand what I'm trying to do as opposed to like keeping this friendship or relationship? Do you ever deal with that?

SPEAKER_00 22:20

Yeah, look, I try not to now. Like my broker with me, like I call him once a week. We're on the phone talking. Are you I probably annoy him too much? I'm saying, what can we do? Can we reval these properties now? Like what can we get doing and that kind of stuff? But yeah, it was, I guess, originally a little bit tricky to swap, you know, leave my accountants, but I guess it's probably the best decision that I've made, you know, just to take that jump. And it's definitely worth it. Did you feel weird? Like, did you feel like bad about it? Yeah, oh, a little bit. Feeling the second one, because I'd come to him and said, look, I've just, you know, he wasn't performing and all this. And then he was kind of like, oh, look, I'll take care of you. I can do all this. And unfortunately, he couldn't. So I I did feel a little bad. But you gotta do it at the end of the day, you know, if you want to go places, you can't, you know, worry about someone else's feelings, unfortunately. You gotta do what you gotta do. It's business. Like at the end of the day, like kind of run, you know, you've got to run your portfolio like a business when you're trying to, you know, when you're trying to scale it.

SPEAKER_01 23:19

I feel like sometimes people say that, and that's their reason to act like a dickhead. What I admire about you is that you you push and you're pushing and you're pushing, but you are very relationship driven. Like I think when a relationship is strong, you understand it, but you don't burn anyone.

SPEAKER_00 23:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:38

Which I really like, you know. Um, and some people are like, you gotta do what you gotta do, oh, that's business. And then they just treat people like absolute dogs. And you're like, what are you treating me so bad for?

SPEAKER_00 23:48

Yeah, no, that's not fair, for sure. Um, what other lessons you got? Look, I think touching on that from a business side of things, is always put yourself on, I guess, the other side of the desk, you know, like would um would you be happy with you know what you're telling me or you know, with that outcome? Which probably something I learned from my dad, because my dad works with me and he's been customer service probably you know 20 years or so. Yeah, he's always said, look, put yourself on the other side of the desk. Are you happy with that? And if you are, then you know you've done everything you can. And you know, if they're still not happy with that, then look, uh unfortunately there's nothing else you can do, right? But at least you've tried.

SPEAKER_01 24:24

Yeah. And that's I think a bit of a business lesson.

SPEAKER_00 24:26

Yeah, yeah, definitely.

SPEAKER_01 24:28

Um can you give me the um maybe not the lesson, but the yeah, maybe the lesson of what you've learned from buying metro markets, regional markets, small dollar po small dollar, you know, you're talking a 382 here, you're talking a 495 here, to like a 1.4 million. Or is is there difference in assets? Sometimes people say to me, Oh, I've got a $1.5 million pre-approval. Can I just buy one? It's it's fit, it feels easier, it feels more simple to do that. What's your maybe advice or or guidance or experience?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah, well, I guess it like it depends. It comes with different things like that that Gold Coast one, which is definitely my biggest one. It's got you know, that costs, you know, the most it's the most I'm negative on per month, I would say, you know, costs me the most, you know, and the maintenance on that is definitely, you know, a lot more than all of the other ones.

SPEAKER_01 25:26

How much is how much does it cost you over can ask? And then how much does your total portfolio cost you per month?

SPEAKER_00 25:32

So because I signed the contract to the Gold Coast one with no finance approval and with no cooling off period, I had to Bowl move. Go to Well, it was kind of up for grabs, and there were so many people that wanted it. And I knew I could get the finance approval. It was just a matter of if I could do it in time. So to get it, we had to go to a second-tier lender, low dock. So it was in the nines, that interest rate, you know, and I did 10% deposit. So at the moment, it's about 10 grand a month in repayments, and the rentals close to five, so negative about five grand a month on that. But I just got I've got a refinance and a settling soon, which will bring it back down to about 6.5%, you know, which which should, you know, keep about three or four grand in my pocket each month. So yeah. Overall, currently the portfolio is negative. It's pretty negative. It's about 150 grand negative at the moment per year. Yeah. Because I've done a lot of 10% loans with other lenders to basically, you know, 10% no LMI loans, right? Um, for the last few. So they're pretty up there.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah. And I look at that, right? And that sounds hefty, right? Uh 150K negative per annum. But in uh I'm not going to do the maths, but it it we could do it in the 18 months that you've held this property portfolio, you've made 750k with the capital growth. You're spending 150 to make 750, or it'll actually be a bit less because we've if you annualize it. Let's just freaking cut it and just say 500. Are you spending 150 to make 500? You still put in your pocket 350. That's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 27:13

Well, yeah, that's a thing. Like a few of my friends, I guess, you know, have laughed at the interest rates that I've gotten, right? And laughed at how negative it is. But again, think of it that way, right? Like, yeah, okay, I spent 50, you know, 150, make 350. You know, it's a no-brainer for me. And that's why I'll pretty much continue to pretty much buy as much as I can and until I can't afford the negative cash flow.

SPEAKER_01 27:38

You know, and you're like the whole way along this, you you've had an investor mindset. What am I putting into? What am I getting out? What am I putting into whatever I get now? And what's the goal now for your portfolio? Like, what are you looking at doing now? Because you said you were you've changed your perspective on things. You wouldn't do it the same as what you've done it.

SPEAKER_00 27:57

Yeah, so I'm just looking now recently, yeah, sold um my unit in Cranola that I was living in. So I will look at, and now I'm trying to work out what to do with yeah, the the big development, the new developments happening. Um, looking at maybe possibly trying to move that on as well. And then looking at to kind of ask why. Why are you freeing up those two? I want to use that to redeploy into other markets, growth markets. Okay. Right. So that's that's the plan to use that capital, go buy a few more, as many as I can.

SPEAKER_01 28:28

It might seem like a silly question, but why? I'm trying to like pull it out for the listeners so they could it it could it makes so absolute sense because like this guy's got two apartments in Crenola, good area, like in Sydney. Why is he getting rid of them to deploy the money somewhere else?

unknown 28:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:44

I guess it just makes so much sense to me in those markets. You can just make so much more growth, you know. Like in Crenola, yes, they're nice areas, nice apartments, but the growth that you'll get on that asset, you know, is not really anything you can get in these other markets. And it really ties you up.

SPEAKER_01 28:59

Give us some numbers, but give us some numbers. Like, give us some numbers on what you made in Ballarat. Like, what's Ballarat grown in the last 12 months?

SPEAKER_00 29:04

Ballarat in the last 12 months grown probably close to 20%, 100 grand, you know. You know, 20%? Yeah. So with that, like, you know, the all-in costs, you know, for that property, we think it would be about 20% was 120 grand. And then, you know, you don't if you go and park that into a place in Crenella, you know, it's not gonna move, you know, maybe three, four, five percent, not even, right? Can we can we peel back the layer of crinella?

SPEAKER_01 29:28

It it might be a bit you you bought it for one mil thirty. What did you sell it for?

SPEAKER_00 29:33

Sold it for one thirty, which is very rare, I think. Yeah. Um good result from the lats. Very so look, my brother pushed really hard to get that result, and I think we got it off market originally for a good buy. That's what the only reason I bought it to to live in, renovate it, then flip it, you know, use that money, you know, to redeploy.

SPEAKER_01 29:54

You've bought that at a similar time frame as you bought Ballaran, and you made 100k off both of them basically. But your total funds required to buy the unit, how much would you have put in the stamps and deposit?

SPEAKER_00 30:07

Well, I think look, that cost me probably close to 150 for about 10%, you know, and and it's negative, you know, five and a half grand a month to hold that unit, right? Whereas the Ballarat place, you know, I'm out a couple hundred dollars, you know, per month and has grown, you know.

SPEAKER_01 30:23

So you made a hundred c on both of them and you've put in less money. Your cash on cash return on Ballarat is almost a hundred percent. You put in a hundred grand or you put in 120 and you got out a hundred. Uh that's pretty good.

SPEAKER_00 30:34

100%. And like makes a lot of sense doing that to me. And that's why I will probably not buy my own primary residence yet. Like eventually that is the goal, right? Where you can buy and your dream home, I think. Because there's a lot of costs going into you know, buying a place now to live in. Stamps, if your interest is through the roof, and then selling costs or that, you know, it just doesn't really make sense to me.

SPEAKER_01 30:57

Yeah. The I we spoke we spoke about that quickly and I just want to draw down on it, which is cash on cash return. I think that is the best measurement of a investment. How much money did I put in? Because we did speak about okay, you bought this place for 495, whatever blah blah. But you didn't pay like 495 didn't come out of your pocket to pay it. You only put a deposit down and you've got a loan for the rest, and then you've got some servicing to to manage that loan. But I believe that's the best measurement. And the you're getting rid of the Cornella apartment and the other Cornella apartment to deploy money. You made 20% off Ballarat. What are the people that you do talk to that aren't property investors? What do they say about that? You made 20% on a property. And I know all these other locations too. You probably would have made high teens, if not 20% as well, on all the others.

SPEAKER_00 31:51

Yeah, I think look, people struggle to, I guess, understand uh things that they can't see as well, you know. They they like to want to see it, touch it, feel it. And uh a lot of them hear things advice from their parents and stuff too, and it's a very different time, you know, and like back back, gosh, I sound old, but back in the day, like you know, back in my day of previous generation, you know, like our parents were buying places and they've they've what tripled, quadrupled around here, right? Which it is not likely to happen for us, you know, and the interest rates have gone through the roof and you know, the costs of going into it, it just yeah, it really doesn't make sense. So I've tried to I've tried to educate a lot of my friends and I've sent a few of them over your way. I hope you can. Yeah. But um, I think they they're sort of starting to see, but there's something pulling them back into, you know, buy something to live in, you know. But when you really zoom out and look, okay, if you buy a place now and live in it for 30 years, what are you gonna have? You know, you're gonna have that one place maybe paid off, or if that money you use now and deployed into investments, like the return would be, you know, 10, 20, you know, 30x, possibly.

SPEAKER_01 32:57

Yeah, yeah. In that amount of time frame.

SPEAKER_00 32:59

Yeah. So really, you know, I try, yeah. I'd be trying to tell as many people as I can because you know, people don't really understand it. So I would say, look, listen to donate. Listen to people like yourself, people that come on here, like they know and they've they've done it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 33:14

So it's um I I I've put that down to like a worldview, you know, and the boomers have got their worldview and they kind of in try and impart it on to the next generation. The market's very different, man. The economy is extremely different to what it was like when they were getting established and getting set up. And I I do think this is the new way uh of getting ahead, you know. The you know, super only became a thing, I think, in the 80s or 90s, you know. Like before that, the Australian stock market wasn't doing that much. And then bang, you add in compulsory super and then poof the Australian stock market goes. And you add in the amount of uh migrants into this country that the government is adding in now without adding the supply of housing, poof, the property market goes. Like that's kind of like the this is the opportunity of our generation to get ahead. Like they a lot of boomers love the stock market because they were buying stuff before super kind of became mandatory in this country, and then bang, all of a sudden it does, and then all this institutional money comes in and it goes. But um, I mean, I I I could talk to you for ages. Every time we do chatter, I feel like we chat for ages. Is there anything else you want to mention to us? Or can you just tell us what are your goals with your property portfolio and and why did you get into this all in the first place?

SPEAKER_00 34:30

Yeah, so I guess the goals now are like immediate goals are to move on the the you know, the ones I can touch and feel, the ones in Cranulla, move them into other markets and eventually, you know, continue to buy, I guess, continue to accumulate over the next few years. And then I guess the right move would be then to move into some commercial assets, keep some growth assets and that kind of thing. But yeah, eventually it is to, you know, be able to be work optional, you know. I I will, I think I'll always work. I love working. I'm a hustler. Um, I like to say I'll retire young, but uh, I'm working towards that. But we if I don't think I will, but that's that's the kind of the goal, you know, just to do what I want to do, you know, work from wherever I want to work from. I love traveling. I want to go work in somewhere else and be able to work from my laptop, you know, and not be not be strapped somewhere and worried about, you know, money.

SPEAKER_01 35:22

Yeah. Man, you you inspire me when I talk to you and hang out with you. Like I I only got into this stuff when I was 29. Um, what I'm 36 now, I've been doing this for for seven or so years. And you've been doing this stuff since you're what like 27. And it's it's it's inspiring to see you go so hard after it and do it. And um what else? Anything else you want to you want to leave us with? Any any nuggets of gold in that starch of yours?

SPEAKER_00 35:50

Oh I'm just trying to think what what there might be other nuggets. Maybe depends for day. Um look, I mean, I would love to see, you know, people around here and people that listen to your podcast start, you know, take you know a bit of something from this to, you know, do it themselves, right? And like I'm sure you probably speak to a lot of people, but they need to really, you know, take the leap, you know, trust, trust the process. And and this is, you know, what I find is is the process now, you know, it's it's the way to go.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Tommy, you're a you're a hustler, you're an action taker. Thank you so much for coming on, man. I'm looking forward to a dinner and some later tonight. Thank you. Thanks for having me. Thanks so much for listening to the Moves to Momentum podcast. If you got any value out of this episode, please give us a like or subscribe. Or if you think this is relevant to anyone of your friends or family, please flick it to them so they can have a listen.