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Hello, hello. This is Jordan. It's Daniel here. Some of you may listen and still think, oh, that's that Jordy Delight. Well, hiya, it's Geordie here. How are ya? I am here to do a very interesting episode, but before I start my topic for this week, I just wanted to check in how everyone's doing. I hope you're all well. Last week's episode was very political, but very tough to listen to, I think, for some people. Pride, as you know, such an important topic right now politically, and I even after the episode had to deal with people saying to me that they don't agree with pride and they authorise pride because corporate sponsors, etc. And I completely echo that. Like corporate sponsors to me are not an ideal situation, but unfortunately, we live in a corporate capitalist fucking world. So I'm the kind of person that thinks what is better having no pride or having a pride that has one or two corporate sponsors that, yeah, we can kind of have a bit of a shrug our shoulders, cross our eyes, and shake our heads at. But actually, really, what can we say? You know, there is only so much we can all do to be sustainable in this world. But believe me, in my ideal utopia, we wouldn't have to have pride because everyone would be gorgeous except down, and no one would be judged for who they are. But unfortunately, we are not at that point in life, and I think that pride is needed now more than ever as an act of protest. You're lay to show that, and if you're somebody who goes to March, but it's like I go to the march and I don't agree with the corporateness of this, totally valid, I hear ya. But anyway, we've talked enough about pride last week, and I hope you're all having a lovely pride wherever you are. If you're listening to this in another month, in another time, I hope pride is wonderful for you. But today I'm not talking about that, I'm talking about something that has really upset me personally, so I want to get my frustrations out and actually educate audiences who may listen to us and be themselves recovering from narcissistic abuse, and also may listen to us and want to understand more because they've had someone do this to uh this week. I am talking more in-depth about gaslighting. There was obviously an episode where I did pop psychology where it was talking about how people will accuse people of gaslighting or love bombing or gatekeeping or scapegoating, etc. Which can be under the narcissistic abuse umbrella. But for me, I really wanted to do an in-depth episode that actually talks about gaslighting, what it is, what it is not, and share my own experiences of experiencing that when I was younger, and also knowing what it's like dealing with people that may be perhaps less emotionally mature than some, therefore will use things like love bombing, gaslighting, all these psychological terms as a weapon to weaponize and manipulate. So quickly I can say gaslighting I think is used right now in pop psychology and social media, like it's the fucking, oh you're annoying me, you're being rude to me, you're being cruel, it's oh you're gaslighting me, oh you're like love bombing me, blah blah. Like it's but it's become this like weaponized thing, and it's ridiculous because I work in mental health and I know a lot of people that do also work in mental health or have experiences in mental health who uh this thing around weaponizing these languages in terms when you have no qualifications, no understanding of it, and using it out of context is a really dangerous mechanism and sometimes actually used as a way to silence people. I think some people do this because they think it's like makes them sound intelligent or they think they know what they're talking about. So I'm gonna just really get into what gaslighting is. Gaslighting is the denial of somebody intentionally, the denial of someone's experience, existence, and making them feel a bit crazy. It came from a movie that was called Gaslight, although it was originally a stage play, and it was about an abusive husband who manipulates the gaslights in the home and convinces the wife that she is imagining the dimming and she is going crazy when she sees this. So, case in point, there is an action happening, and somebody is denying that it's happening, and that looks like this someone says they're upset with something, and someone says that never happened, you're crazy, you're overreacting, you're being silly, I never said that, I don't know what you're talking about. Now, this is where it gets like a great area when people argue and have conflict, relationships, family, friends, people's memories can be fucking shit. Let's face it, people's memories can be fucking shit. And post-COVID, a lot of people have brain fog, malaise, and forget things. Now, saying that you would meet somebody at 12 o'clock for lunch in town, and that person rocks up at um half 12, and the person goes, Oh, we were meant to be meet at 12, and that person goes, No, you said half 12, and the person goes, No, I said 12, and the person goes, No, you said half twelve. That is not gaslighting, that is a miscommunication, that is a conflict, and what usually in these situations happens is someone says something like, Oh, do you know what? Next time we'll we text, we'll not just say the plan, we'll text it, and the person goes, Yeah, that makes sense. Because conflict is inevitable, conflict happens. What really is a mature way of handling conflict is how you solve it, problem solving. So I've been in relationships, friendships, and dealt with family where a conflict arises, someone forgets something, someone's like, I don't recall that happening, this is what I remember happening, and emotions take over, people get upset, they say, No, this is what happened. I've been guilty myself, by the way, where I put my hand up and say, I've been like, No, I'm sure this is what happened. Because in my brain, I'm like, No, I remember this, this is what happened. But at the end of the fucking day, even if I'm right, someone else might have forgotten, and it doesn't mean they're a bad person. And that is what therapy has taught me, and you know, just the personal work I've done through self-help books, etc., is people are complicated nuance and make mistakes. Now, gaslighting is literally when someone does something and says that didn't happen, and it is intentional. When I say intentional, what I mean is this man in this plain film is doing this to his wife to manipulate her and control her and make her think that she is losing her fucking mind. Whereas if she had turned the lights off and then he turned them on, but he forgot he turned them on to go get like a cup of coffee, and then she said, Oh, you turned the lights on, and he goes, Did I? Or did you not leave them on? That is not intentional, and that is very different to purposely putting them on and off and making her think that she's imagining things and saying that's not happening. So that's the example. Now, I am somebody who a long, long, long time ago now, which is hilarious because it feels like yesterday, but it wasn't. I am somebody who was in two relationships with two people that lied all the time and gaslit me, and it was horrible. And what that looked like was somebody sending me text messages, deleting them, and then saying, I never text you that, you're going crazy, that never happened. Or I had a guy that would be like, Let's go on a night out tonight at the last minute, and he was having like an episode, and I was like, Oh, I'm really ill, I don't want to go on a night out, I've got like a chest infection. No, no, we have to go out, we have to go out. So we'd go out, and then the next day he'd be like, Can't believe you made me go out last night. I wanted to stay at home, I wanted to like you know have a quiet closing in, but what are you like? You're such a party animal, and I was like, That didn't happen, and he's like, Yes, it did, yes it did. You made me go out, you pushed me into doing it. That is gaslighting. Somebody having a disagreement with a partner, with a friend, with a family member is not gaslighting. Conflict is not abuse, conflict happens and it is inevitable, and people make mistakes. I also knew somebody, I work in theater, and I knew somebody who used to regularly gaslight me and a lot of people that we worked with, and that individual was absolutely awful and used to lie constantly and then say to us that never happened, don't know what you're talking about. I never did that, and again, that person was calculated and intentional, and we lost our goddamn minds. So, this is what gaslighting is, and the reason I bring this up is there were two situations one years ago in 2020, and one recently, where somebody accused me of gaslighting, and in both situations, I was like, Oh my god, I'm like, I can't believe I've done that to someone. Now just take note of this. If someone is accused of gaslighting, they go, Oh my god, I can't believe they did that, I'm a horrible person, they probably didn't do it. I mean, there might be people that are very manipulative and they live in their lala land and will just use any excuse under the bus. But trust me, a lot of people that are narcissists or gaslight, they will not have that self-awareness to go, Oh my god, if I gaslit somebody, they will just be like, I never did that. Why are you saying that? But I was sitting and was like, years ago in 2020, I fell out with this girl, she was toxic as fuck, by the way, right? Always blaming other people. And with me, we had an argument once I caught her lying on a podcast. So on a podcast, she was lying and saying that she had like spent her birthday on her own during lockdown because it was so hard. And I messaged her, like, why did you say that on the podcast? You were at mine, and we'd bubbled at a time, so legally it was allowed because of COVID like rules and regulations. But she and I both lived on our own, so we were allowed to bubble, and she lied on this podcast and said she spent her birthday in Midgebot home. And she said to me, 'Oh, my audience just have to relate to me.' If I told them that I came around to yours and had wine, then they wouldn't understand me. And I was like, So you're lying, and she instantly started an argument with me, and I was so upset. So then I affirmed how she felt, and I said to her, Look, I'm really sorry for making you feel upset, blah blah blah. I want to talk to you about this, I want to get a coffee and go for a walk, but like I won't tolerate being spoken to like this, like for basically calling you out for lying. And she said to me, This is really gaslighty. I'll stick to my own therapist thanks, and I was like reading it, like, excuse me. So I said to her, No, I'm sorry, I will not tolerate being accused of gaslighting. I affirmed how you felt, did not deny your reality, and want to talk with you about it in person. That's not gaslighting. So that is the kind of people that you will deal with in life that I followed years ago as a psychologist who said, and it was a head fuck by the way, but some sociopath, narcissists, people BBD, etc., all these personality conditions will say things like you're gaslighting me, but they are actually gaslighting you, and that is a head fuck to get to terms with like someone's gaslighting you by accusing you of gaslighting. I know, you probably hear this and going, Oh my god. If you're somebody who's listening to this and you're going, I was being gaslit, I'm not crazy, honey, you weren't crazy. People will say these things to weaponize and manipulate when they want to paint their own narrative. So she was honestly awful, and I cut ties. And then recently, without going into too much details, because I have to be respectful of other people in the situation. I had someone accuse me of gaslighting someone with no context, with no not hearing my side of the events, and it was ridiculous, and it really hurt my feelings. Because see, when you build a relationship with somebody that you think is really nice, you know, you meet people, I do, and I often have a gut feeling and go, I'm not really sure about that person, I don't know what I think about them, but I'll get to know them because I could be wrong, and not gonna lie to you, 99% of the time, I'm not wrong, but he ho, hey-ho. But to get to know someone and spend time with them and feel like you've really built a relationship with that person and you've gotten close with someone else, and think, and this is maybe I've got this person wrong for them to accuse you of gaslighting when you're going through something personally with somebody, and that person has no evidence to back that up, and that person ironically is gaslighting the person who's telling them that information. So, you know, someone says, Oh, this is why this is going on, and you know, um we've made this decision together, and someone goes, Nah, you're being gaslit, and stop making excuses for that person. You do know, listeners, if you're hearing this, that if someone tells you what's going on and you say that's not what's happening, you're being gaslit, ironically enough, that is gaslighting that person because that person is saying this is what's going on, and that person goes, nah, that's not what's happening, you're being gaslit. Stop making excuses for the person. Like, what nonsense? I actually had to sit in really the last two weeks process this and actually be like, That is so emotionally immature, and what a lot of nonsense. And that sounds like really dismissive to that person. I can hear it, and I don't want that to sound gaslight-y, but if you don't have proof and two people make a decision together that is mature, that is amicable, and someone's like accusing the other person of gaslighting with no proof, evidence, and clearly just their own intention and agenda, I'm not here for it. People that gaslight, I have experience of it, people gaslighting me, it's horrible. People that gaslight, they don't affirm how other people feel, they don't tell our people, look, you're a great person, this is not working, and this is why. They would tell someone, you're horrible, it's all your problem, and they would scapegoat that person, but they would not take any accountability. People that gaslight don't take accountability and go, Do you know what? I'm not perfect, I've made mistakes, this is not working, etc. So yeah, I was just like dealing with this conflict, and then I had a moment where I was like, Do I reach out to this person and say to them, Why have you accused me of this? This is really serious. Because also, just so you know, like there might be people that listen to us and they're like, Oh yeah, gaslighting is like awful, and people throw this phrase around, willy-nilly, this is psychological abuse. If you don't know this, you need to know this. Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse. It's really serious. I went through it where I literally was in an emotional abusive relationship with this guy for two years, another guy for a year and a half. That guy, you know, cheated on me constantly and then told me he didn't, but people were telling me he did, and he lied. That's gaslighting. Because he said to me, Oh, why are you being crazy? You're so insecure, you're so defensive. Because I was like, People will tell me you're cheating on me. Like, that's gaslighting. But two adults having disagreements and trying to find a solution, that's not gaslighting. But people will just do this, and I did think to myself, do I text that person and say, How dare you accuse me of gaslighting? I'm really hurt by that. And I thought, no, because if someone's gonna accuse you of things like this, you need to know this if your boss, if your so-called friends, if your partner, partners, if your poly or your family accuse you of gaslighting, and there's no reason for them to accuse you of this, and it's emotionally immature as fuck. You are going to literally sit and deal with that person then being emotionally volatile and not mature enough to actually apologize. And that's the other thing. An apology needs to be accountable. People need to say, I'm really sorry, I said that you did this, you did not clearly do this, I got it wrong there. I can only apologize. I think I was fuelled by upset, I was fuelled by this, but it doesn't excuse my behaviour. Do you know who apologizes like that? Guess I fucking apologize like that to people. Do you know how many? I mean, I've got a Minotaurus, so I when I'm wrong, I say I'm wrong. Like I'm into astrology, my minentaurus is like when you're wrong, you say you're wrong, and you move on. That's it. I'm not the type that's like, well, I apologize, but you're the problem. You did this. Like, I'm not a child, I'm 31. That's the kind of behavior I expect from like children in primary school. I don't expect adults above a certain age to be like, Well, I'm sorry, but you're a dick. Like, no, grow up. So, yes, I was like, sometimes you have to preserve your energy. I used to be friends with someone years ago that used to use this beautiful analogy that said something along the lines of like, you know, who's in your garden and who's an invited to like the barbecue and who's like you know, watching across the hedge, and something like that. And I remember thinking that was a beautiful analogy because it was so true. It's like you've got to be very careful who you invite into your life, and you need to make your safe space feel sacred and safe, and when people are negative like that, they're gonna contaminate your space. So I thought to myself, there is no fucking point in texting someone that you're upset with these things, because if you text someone you're upset with these things, and that's their approach when you've done nothing wrong. Can you imagine what their approach is gonna be when actually that they have done something wrong, and you're actually hurt by that? I don't think so. So, yeah, please, when you're listening to us, know from experience, personally and professionally, and from other people I speak to, gaslighting is awful, you should not do it. We all, by the way, in a society context, like have done gaslighting, it's very prevalent, and it's unfortunately it's not okay, but it does actually happen, and people actually sometimes do it and they don't even realise. Like, I know that through systemic generational trauma, there are people that will be like, Oh, why are you crying? Don't be such a wuss, you know, and they minimize people's feelings because that's what society has told them to do, especially if you're assigned male. I know a lot of people that were assigned male that were told, pull your pants up and get over it. That's dismissing someone's feelings, and that then verges on the gaslighting, you know, of oh that never happened, why are you crying about that? Okay, you start to cry about. So, yeah, it's awful, and we and people do do it unconsciously and they don't don't realise, but we have to stop using these phrases out of context and accusing people of things just because we don't like them, we don't like what they said. Like, it's it's not appropriate behaviour and it's gonna cause a lot of problems for people. So, yes, I hope you enjoyed this. That is gaslighting. Conflict is not abuse is a great book you should consider reading. Um, gaslighting is awful and intentional, and people do it that are really, really troubled human beings. But having a disagreement is not the same, and you all needed to hear that because see when your friends start saying, Oh, that's so gaslighty, I think we have a duty of care to say to people, you do know that gaslighting is this and that's not what that is. So, yeah, I hope you enjoy the podcast. Join us, Daniel, on social media. I'll speak with you soon. And just remember, it's okay to moan about gaslighting.