I threw away the first set of women's shoes I made FT Eze David

What does it really take to build a successful shoe brand from scratch? 

From starting to navigating challenges, funding, trends, and even the emotional side of the journey, this conversation gets real.

On this episode, we sit down with Eze David to talk about his journey into shoemaking, what inspired his designs, the business side of things, and what the future looks like for his brand.

If you're a creative, entrepreneur, or just curious about the fashion industry — this is one you don’t want to miss.

--
 0:00 – Intro
 1:43 – How he got started
 3:05 – First designs
 3:42 – What size he started with
 5:25 – Why he hasn’t designed for women
 6:31 – Are all his shoes made here?
 7:43 – How heels differ in men’s shoes
 8:28 – What inspires his designs
 9:18 – What works in marketing
 10:20 – How he knew it would be lucrative
 14:20 – Credit Direct hype
 15:10 – Challenges he has faced
 16:51 – Has he ever cried? 👀
 18:40 – Keeping up with trends
 21:19 – Funding: How much it costs to start
 29:12 – Did he learn shoemaking formally?
 31:25 – Thoughts on business owners using AI
 33:45 – The future of King David’s brand
 40:30 – Advice for upcoming designers
 42:53 – Giveaway 🎁

What part of his journey stood out to you the most? Drop your thoughts in the comments 👇
 Don’t forget to like, share, and subscribe for more real conversations 

#FashionBusiness #Entrepreneurship #ShoeMaking #AfricanCreatives #BusinessJourney #Designers #StartupLife #CreativeIndustry #PodcastClips

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Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

This episode is brought to you by Credit Direct. My guest today is someone who has been designing men's footwear for years. This is someone who has been creating modern, bold designs that men actually like to wear. Please put your hands together for my guest. He's a David Butts. Calm down now. He's not going to give you free shoes. But the name of his brand is King David. Welcome. I'm so excited to have you here from one shoemaker to another. In case you didn't know, for those watching, I have um been the creative director of a women's footwear brand, Bemisuke Shoes, for years. It's going to be 11 years or thereabouts. Yeah. Welcome. Oh, that's amazing. Thank you so very much. Welcome. So I think I was just saying before we came on that I found out about you through Tosin, who is style infidel. Also, I think Ebuka has worn your shoes. Who hasn't worn your shoes, really? And then also a fashion commentator, and he was talking about your shoes. I think Aki Famino has also worn your shoes a couple of times. And so I was like, okay, let me go search out, let's search out this guy. And then I was blown away by what I saw on your page. You do everything from mules for men to loafers to boots to all sorts. How did you start?

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Uh thank you so very much for having me today. And um it's a pleasure to be here, you know. So basically, King David started with a desire to deliver more.

SPEAKER_03 1:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

And um we got it to a space where at the time not much was going on. It was just the conventional loafers and you know palm sleepers. Palm sleepers, yeah. You know, and uh we had we knew that there was a niche in this space because so many prospects would go online, order these things from ASOS, Zara, and we're like, why not fit into this gap and just expand from there? You know, so yeah, we we started in 2013.

SPEAKER_03 2:08

You know, and my seniors in the cave.

SPEAKER_00 2:11

Yeah, you know, 2013, that was when the idea and the whole concept of everything we needed to do came into play. And um, yeah, from from the streets of Unilag. Oh wow. You know, yeah. So yeah, from there, a couple of guys, our first collaborations was um Tokyo James, you know, then Orange Culture, Emmy Casbit, then all the fashion men, man. Yeah, we started branching out into full into the industry.

SPEAKER_03 2:40

Okay, okay. So, what design was your first design, or what's or what was your first drop? What were the designs you created first?

SPEAKER_00 2:48

My very first pair, which I actually bought back. You know, because you loved it so much. No, because it's that was the first pair. Okay, it was just interesting seeing what kick started this whole thing. And you know, just you just want to have that piece back in your archive, you know, and that it was a very irregular broke. Irregular broke shoe. You know, at the at the time, we're new in the industry, so we're also finding balance and fit, you know. So yeah, the very first part was a broke shoe.

SPEAKER_03 3:24

What size run did you decide to? Was it like, because I I know that men's uh sizes go up to you know 46, 47, and so was it like a regular size run or you go into extended sizes?

SPEAKER_00 3:36

So we're going to extend it sizes. I mean, we've had to make I've I've made one shoe a size 55.

SPEAKER_03 3:43

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 3:44

Yeah, to today. Nothing beats that record. 55. 55.

SPEAKER_03 3:48

How tall is this person?

SPEAKER_00 3:50

This is huge.

SPEAKER_03 3:51

Oh, because you're a tall guy. So yeah, wow, wow, wow. Okay, okay. I think the biggest so far that we've done is 47. Yeah, so and that's for women's wear. So I mean footwear. So I'm thinking 55?

SPEAKER_00 4:05

Yeah, 55. Literally do 49, 50 regularly, week in, week out.

SPEAKER_03 4:10

Because okay, because I make shoes for women, lots of guys always like, when are you gonna make for men? And I'm just like, I don't know if I am the same thing that interested in making for for me or in for men's shoes. I feel like women's shoes are more dynamic. Though I was saying, like, I went on your website previously, I went on your page, and I saw that you had like so many unique designs. You play with textures, you play with studs, you play with you know, heels, like heights, you do very unconventional. Like there's a pair of shoes now that are like offer, they're so interesting. I almost like, I'm just like, I I think I should wear this. Because I'm sure you have women who actually order from you not for their partners or whatever, but also for themselves. So, one, why haven't you decided as in design for women? And if you have, tell us. And two, what inspires your designs? Because they're different.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Uh, okay. I truly have a bad history with female shoes. Because it's hard. It's hard. So it's as bad as we've had to dispose 20 pairs of shoes in the dustbin.

SPEAKER_03 5:23

Only. I mean, only.

SPEAKER_00 5:26

Wow. No, no, don't worry. You know, so that was that was that was that was like a scar for us.

SPEAKER_03 5:33

Were they made here?

SPEAKER_00 5:34

They were made here. You know, were they heels or flats? They were hills, they were actually for a runway. Bagam. You know, thank you. They were actually for a runway, and on the day of the, we did everything possible to make sure everything came out right. But apparently on the day of the event, the heels were going one side, the shoes were going one side, and I mean, in the nutshell, the models had to like, I think they had to work barefooted or something, or use that they used something else.

SPEAKER_03 6:01

Oh, so sorry.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

You know, so ever since then, I'm like anything female, old. You know.

SPEAKER_03 6:07

But uh are your shoes made here? Yes. All your shoes are made here. Everything in Nigeria, in Lagos. Okay. Do you not try to get into your business? Do you own your equipment or just okay? Okay, we're gonna get into that. But women's footwear is so complex. As someone who has made them since 2015, okay, it's 10 years. But anyway, long story. But I find that it's easier for I mean, there are people who make their shoes here in Nigeria, but when it comes to heels, there's a problem. There's a and even when they say, Oh, handmade this, there's a way they look.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

Look at it, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:46

There's a way they look that it looks like a carpenter made them. I don't know if you understand what I mean.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

There's a weird way, like you just be like just how it looks generally.

SPEAKER_03 6:55

Did you be like, no matter how neat, did your local cobbler make this shoe? And not to say that they can't make nice shoes, but there's just a way about it. So, how is it but you make shoes for men that have heels, obviously not still lettoes, but they are thicker, you know, they are probably like a platform type situation in some cases. So, how is it different?

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Uh so for us, I mean, I would say we've been, we've seen every stages of those challenges, and there's always room for improvement. There's always room to get better, there's always room to see how we can, you know, improve what we're doing. So I'd say over time we've been able to master that. And you know where your health your strength is. So even at this point, we are venturing into females full-time in collaboration with um Ashle Okoli. You understand? So, yeah, that's like the King David women's. But we're looking at launching next year.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

Oh, nice, nice, nice. So we're looking forward to that. Um, what inspires your designs? Like I said, you don't just, it's not just your regular, as Nigerians call it, call shoe. You have fur, you have studs, you have denim shoes, you have all sorts of in you know, different intricate designs. So what inspires them?

SPEAKER_00 8:21

Okay, I would say for me, uh shoemaking is also a form of art. Uh it requires expression, it requires emotion, it requires feeling, how you feel at a particular time. And um I would say I draw my inspiration from everything. You know, I can literally see how this place looks, and I'm like, okay, yeah, it's going to be bad to make a shoe that has all boxes. And the next question is, how do you how do you achieve that? And before we try doing one or two prototypes, we've been able to see what works, and we're like, yeah, this is a banger, let's go.

SPEAKER_03 8:53

Okay. What worked for you in terms of marketing?

SPEAKER_00 8:56

Collaboration.

SPEAKER_03 8:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

Everyone collaboration.

SPEAKER_03 8:59

Collaborating with fashion houses, you know, like you mentioned, your Emmy Kasbit, your Orange Night. Exactly. Okay. Okay. So when you say collaboration, is it like, oh, I have you have a collection coming out, let your models wear these shoes, or how?

SPEAKER_00 9:14

Uh it works in uh different forms. We have the ones with um fashion houses, we have the ones with influencers, you know, we have like different, you know, it just depends on what is available at the time. You know, because we tend to we tend to look at who fits into our target audience, who has our target audience, and how do we appeal to them? So we say that most of the time these fashion houses, they have our target audience. Yes. A certain type of influencers have our target audience.

SPEAKER_03 9:45

So we believe by the time we work together, basically a stylish man or a man who is really think outside the box, you know, who is a fashion guy, basically.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 9:56

Okay. How did you discover that it will be lucrative? Because, you know, a lot of businesses start from, I have a passion, I'd love to create this. So it's one thing to create something, it's another thing for it to make money, and it's not just a hobby. Yeah. So at what point did you realize, oh, this thing can actually make money? Because I think I saw your car outside, and I think I saw your car. I a driver outside.

SPEAKER_00 10:16

So I know it's lucrative. By the grace of God. Okay, so uh, I mean, it's it's it's fashion, it's clothing. People always wear clothes, people would always wear shoes. And um, considering the niche at which we cater for, we are very few to none in that space. So, I mean, if if you're if you have that strategic positioning, it can literally influence anything and make you work for you.

SPEAKER_03 10:44

It makes sense because there's lots of um men's footwear designers, but a lot of them make, you know, the open to what we call the palm slippers, different variations. Um, some make obviously uh wedding shoes or outing shoes, some even put some razo dazzle and put some spikes on it for you or douche and shine. No, we've seen it all. So I'm just like, okay. But and I'm always so jealous, I have to say, of menswear, um, men's footwear designers because you see some nice, neat designs for men. I'm just like, but why can't we get it right in Nigeria for women? Because I've had to, I have experimented several times within with making shoes here in Nigeria, and I find that at the end of the day, regretfully, we still have the best results when I create when I make the shoes outside Nigeria. It's just, it's just neater, it's just just you know, there's less complaints.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

I mean, I mean, at the end of the day, I would give um credit to Nigerian um craftsmen, craftsmanship, because the truth is that it's not easy. You get you're working against so many factors. Yeah, you're working against um right equipment. Sometimes you might actually have the equipment and it might be the fabric or the leather that is not just cutting it. You know, so but when you look at how um the industry is structured here in Nigeria and abroad, you see that the government is actually heavily invested over there. Yes, heavily, yes, heavily invested.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

Yes. Do you know that even down to food? I found out that governments abroad for in functioning you know, developed countries actually spend time and money to make sure that their culture is exported to other countries even through food. So it is no surprise that Chinese food is known around the world. They actually um uh there's a way that they have go on. Yes, yes, they basically funded and trained chefs around the world to, and they actually funded them in a way whereby, you know, you can create, you can, you can open like an Italian restaurant, for example, in somewhere like New York. And this is not modern day, this happened years ago, decades ago, where they are exporting their own culture through food, but they also invested in them. So it's not that, oh, one Italian man traveled to New York one day and decided to open a restaurant by himself. I'm sure there were people that were like that, but their governments were also involved. Things like um food from Thailand or food from China or food from they knew what they were doing. They strategically placed them in certain countries around the world, and it wasn't just ordinary. So imagine if this happens in other sectors like fashion, for example. You know, and and again, this is the reason why I created this show, because I feel like we need to tell our stories. It's not just glamour, it's not just, oh, I just started to create something one day and boom, I made money. Running a business seems glamorous, right? From the outside, you think, oh my goodness, this person is making a lot of money. They must be doing so well. But anyone doing it knows how not glamorous it is. There are many moving parts involved from your payments to your suppliers, your staff, expenses, growth, everything happening at the same time. Now, Credit Direct Business is designed to bring structure to that reality. It gives businesses access to credit, automated payments, and many tools that make managing finances less overwhelming. The goal isn't to rush growth, right? It's to support it in a way that feels sustainable and organized. If you're building a business and you want that sort of structure, you can get started through the credit direct app. Make sure you download it today. What are your challenges? Or what were your challenges or what are your challenges today?

SPEAKER_00 14:53

Quite a handful, but um I think for now I would say it is accessibility to an accessibility and consistency of certain fabrics.

SPEAKER_03 15:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 15:09

And the fact that if I if I see this thing today, I'm not guaranteed I will see it tomorrow, next tomorrow. Or if I see it today, for me to see it tomorrow, I'm not seeing exactly what I saw. So I have to go for something else. You know, it's not consistent. I understand. And it's it's not just in um the the foot west side, it's also in fashion, it's also in clothing. You know, you see a particular fabric that you like and you reach out and like I want this exact, but when it comes, it's a different you get.

SPEAKER_03 15:40

Or you buy X, Y, Z number of yards of this material or this fabric, or this leather, or whatever it is, and then people love it so much. No, I want this particular one, but you can't get it anymore, exactly. I once thought of and looked into maybe partnering with or finding factories abroad to buy the leather from for or the material for for my footwear, and but I thought of the costs. The costs. So I'm just like, okay, so what it's a gamble because you can think to yourself, well, has that have you ever had a design where you're like, oh my, this thing is going to be mad, they're gonna love it, and they don't love it as much. Yeah, hey, god damn it. Have you ever cried on this business? Has it caused you to cry and be like, send me this thing?

SPEAKER_00 16:32

Yeah, um, so that there are times when you just get to your breaking point, and um I think for me it it was I got to the point where I'll tell myself what's the worst that can happen. So whenever I face, I don't want to know how bad it happens. It's why I just tell myself is what's the worst that can happen. And that's like a way for me to like pick myself up and just continue. So there are times when you're meant to deliver a shoe and the show is leaving the country, and 12 a.m. is the shoe is not ready. You understand? And maybe it's for a fashion, you know. You know, by the time this piece gets into that space, it's going to cause problems, but you will just see that factors beyond your control, you know, beyond the control cannot happen.

SPEAKER_03 17:18

Is it the Nigerian factor of maybe one worker not doing what they're supposed to do at the time they're supposed to do it? It is the anyhowness.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

The anyhow ness. The fact that you have to manage people, the fact that the materials can come in and it's not what you expected, you know, or it's what you expected, but the quality is not there. It starts peeling, it starts peeling, you know. So you are dealing with so so that that that's the reason I always try to like plead with you know our audience. It's not easy. We'll get there. Yes, it takes time, but understand that is also a process. And the truth is, the way the industry is now, it's not the way it was like years ago, they've been upgrades, you understand? And trust me, the next generation comes in, they move it forward, it goes on and on.

SPEAKER_03 18:15

How do you like how do you keep up with the world? So, back just a few years ago, you could you know create your design, do your shoot, post it and go and sit down. Now, you have to, like you said, you collaborate, you would partner with this stylist, this person, this fashion person. Do you do like Instagram ads, things like that too? Like it's so much. Now, have you started dancing yet? Have you started dancing? Because no, it's true. Like, I saw a meme yesterday night before I went to bed and I had a good laugh. And it said, Shout out to you if you are an entrepreneur and you haven't one, cried, set camera to cry, two, posted, um, I'm taking a break, please, and disabled your account. Or three, started dancing. Like, for God's sake.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

I'm telling you.

SPEAKER_03 19:10

Yeah, because that's I have woken up before and I was just like, I'm gonna disable this account because I just can't.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:17

I just cannot, cannot, can't. Because people don't understand that behind the you know, the glitz and the glam and the fine, fine designs and the wonderful, beautiful pictures, yeah, it's a lot of work. It's expensive.

SPEAKER_00 19:32

It's LG have a friend that is she's shutting down and relocating because she can't do this anymore. So she reached out, she was like, Oh my god, she wants to sell all her things, her machines. Because uh, I remember I got her some of those machines at the time. Does she make footwear too? She makes footwear. Okay, you know, so well, I mean, at the end of the day, you just have to understand that look, it's not easy. You understand? It's not easy, and just know your know your how strategically positioned you are and continue feeding that audience what they want. You know, because the truth is the competition out there, aside from all these things we are saying, the competition is out there. There are people that just come up, take your designs. Now that AI is in the picture, you know, they just use AI to change the color, post it up. Like and they are creating the same design, they're not even creating, they're literally taking your exact image, yeah, just change it from black out to white, post it up, do sponsored ad. You know, I've I've had a couple of times where my staff will be like, ah, they keep sending me stuff, and they're like, Well, this is your shoe, this is your stuff. Then there's some that will just go and remake the design. You know, and what do you do? You can't reach out, you can't just let everybody enjoy.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

What about funding? Can you recall um how much it costs to start? Now, this is a loaded question because how much it costs to start being that I don't know if you started with one pair, five pairs, twenty pairs, hundred pairs, whatever, that's one. Then how much it costs to to run, because you also have running costs. You also have so do you have, uh do you do, do you have the did you apply for grants? Did you, was it friends and family? Was it strip club? We went to shake bombs. I'm just joking. But like, we have to talk about it because it's it's not all fun and games, is my point. Like, this is a real business. I think people forget because maybe you don't wear like a suit and tie, and you don't go sit down in one office at a desk, people forget that. People, and it happens to everybody in the creative space. Whether you're a fashion designer or you're a video director, people automatically just think vibes, but they don't they forget that it's actually a business. So, for had how much did you start with? Again, noting that it was in 2013. And if somebody were to try to start this business today in 2025, how much did you say they should have, bare minimum?

SPEAKER_00 22:10

So the way I started is very different. And um I started with one pair. I bought that first pair for 1,500. I sold that same pair that evening for 6.5. I'm literally telling it was first buying and selling. Yes, yes before I went into production. You know, so you took you take the 6.5, you go back to the market, you buy multiple pairs, you sell, you keep repeating the process, repeating the process.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Start small.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 22:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:40

You know, but uh now in 2025, I I wish I had an answer to that.

SPEAKER_03 22:47

How I started was I when I because I of because of radio and media, I would get to apart from and also travel for personal um reasons, summer, whatever it is. And so I started to buy because my what's your shoe size?

SPEAKER_00 23:03

46 wide.

SPEAKER_03 23:04

My shoe size is 43. And it's not easy for women who wear over size 41 to find shoes. You know, if you are a woman who wears size 42 and up in this country or anywhere in the world, you will suffer small before you find shoes that you want. Oh, it's even better now. Then think 2006, 7, 8. You have a wedding, you want to wear red shoes, and you're a woman who wears size 44. Where are you going to find your size? Where? They used to call us end of discussion in the market. You will go to Balogun, you will go to Yaband, they'll say, Are your size no day markets?

SPEAKER_00 23:44

Yeah, that's that's that's equivalent to men's size 47, 48. Like what we call them in size finish. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 23:51

So yeah. And so when I started making shoes for women who were, I had brides who were praying for me because they had never worn heels as adult women, because this woman wears size 46, and all her life she has worn men's shoes or sneakers, or they will make her palm slippers to wear on a normal day. So she's getting married and she's able to buy her first pair of heels because of Bumisoka shoes. Come and see prayer. Or women who their kids, she's your child is size 13, she's a 13-year-old, and she's already wearing size 45. So she you where do you go? Do you understand? So that was the reason why I started. So I would buy shoes when I would see shoes that were bigger than size 42, 43, I would just buy in like a separate suitcase and bring, and I will post on Facebook. The posts are still there today. Or I will post on uh BBM was there, Blackberry Messenger post on my profile, and people would buy, and people would buy, and people would buy and stuff. Um, and that was how I was like, okay, one day, and then I ended up now going to I was told to go and report the the World Cup that was happening in Brazil. Um, it was a media thing, and so I ended up visiting some factories there, and I was like, eh, okay. So I started doing research here and there, and that's how I started. But even when I got my first set of shoes, I left them for months. I was like, okay, what was I thinking? I left them. I used to just walk past the shoes for days. I kid you not, the shoes arrived in February. I did not take action until May because of fear of what was I thinking? And then the the brand is baby so key. It means you know, lift me up. People yabbed me when we eventually released the shoes because they were flats. That's what I could afford. They I started with ballet flats. How can your name be brand name be baby so? And yeah, where you are shoe, you are showing us flats, and why is it only one design and only two colors? Yeah, the comments are still there on Bella Niger to today, I will never forget. And I was just like, yeah, but guess what? People are gonna talk about you regardless. If you like release 15 pairs, if you like, they will find something to talk about, and and we're saying this because for people who are out there struggling and worrying and wondering how they will make it, if they will make it. So things, so that's why I asked how much you would start. So now funding now. Do you do like how do you do it? Do you have a day job? What yeah?

SPEAKER_00 26:25

Uh I mean, I have many King Davids.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

You understand? So I I would say with funding, it's just all about reinvest reinvestment. I mean, if you can have potential investors coming, that's fine. But to be honest with you, I think if you know what you're doing, you don't really need potential investors. If if if the if the opportunity presents itself, that's fine. Just make sure you read the read it well. Just make sure you and your lawyers, you know, and your team goes through all of that so you know what you're getting yourself into. But um, from my perspective, I think if you know what you're doing, you can get it done. You understand? So it it all depends on um, like I said, your your positioning. You know. Uh in if I was going to start this in 2025, I would create an identity.

SPEAKER_03 27:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 27:19

That I start building that clientele. Because the truth is this, over time, what keeps you to, what makes you loyal is the service I'm offering to you that nobody out there is offering. Is offering.

SPEAKER_03 27:34

Or what is special about your brand that they will keep patronizing you? Yeah, they will keep patronizing you. Is it your customer service? Is it your designs? Is it your pricing? The craft. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Question, how did you decide on pricing? Because that's a topic that people I think don't talk about. If you're starting a brand, if you're starting a service, you're starting, there's different kinds of pricing and tiers. How did you decide this is going to be my price point?

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Okay, so uh it's it also goes back to why what I told myself on what I was going to offer. For me, I like to say King David's is an affordable luxury. You understand? We want to give you something that is not too high, is not too low, it's something you can afford and look good in and it's also scarce because the definition of luxury is also scarcity.

SPEAKER_03 28:26

So you're not doing like a thousand pairs.

SPEAKER_00 28:27

I'm not doing like a thousand pairs, exactly. So if I if I'm bringing this design in just 50 pairs, I know that this, the people I'm catering to, this is what they can, you know, this is where they work, this is what they do. You know, with that I can gauge, you know, revenue and income and say, okay, this is how I'm going to place it.

SPEAKER_03 28:47

Did you go to school for this at any point? Did you take any course for this?

SPEAKER_00 28:51

I studied business in Unilag.

SPEAKER_03 28:52

Okay. But I'm saying in terms of the footwear, like footwear design, did you attend any courses?

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Yeah, I did. I actually learned how to craft. Okay. But I didn't focus on that. Okay. Because that was not my area of specialization. I'm very good at marketing, and I'm good at photography. So I can tell you that the majority of the pictures.

SPEAKER_03 29:10

It shows.

SPEAKER_00 29:11

I take them.

SPEAKER_03 29:12

It shows because when you when you look on your page, the even the angles, the way you know, like I'm like, okay, okay, this is different. This is very artistic. This is true. No, it shows because I think people don't also don't understand that you're not gonna have everybody on deck at the same time. Yeah, unless maybe your surname is in Forbes, one of the Forbes people. I don't want to mention any names. But a lot of times you are, especially when you're starting, you are the designer, you are the person, you know, creative designer, you are the bookkeeper, you are the person packing it, you are the person taking the pictures. Yeah, the person is good.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Yeah. It's good. Like it's good you have those skills so that when it's time to outsource it, you know what you expect. You understand? I learned photography. So anybody that is going to, anybody I'm going to outsource that to, I know what I'm expecting from you. I know what I'm expecting you to give me because I have done it. You understand? And this is literally the same thing I tell brands out there that when you're starting off, you're literally everything. And the truth is this what gives you an edge is not just what you're doing. What gives you an edge is other skills around that thing you're doing. So, as little as photography can be, it gives you an edge in terms of your content is better than what is out there. As little as that accounting knowledge can be, it helps you make better financial decisions. So you can see that aside from just making shoes, there are other angles around this thing that helps you get to where you should be.

SPEAKER_03 30:56

You mentioned AI. What do you think about um fashion businesses using AI? Not necessarily to design, but to create, for example, photography. So instead of getting the model, getting the space, getting the photographer, getting the everything, are you open to okay, let me take a picture of this, my design, putting it into AI and say, generate this guy wearing this, doing this, doing that. What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_00 31:21

So the truth is, I like to be realistic. It's time for AI and it has come to stay. The same way there was, I mean, to take a cylinder, like say a drone shot, you had to be a helicopter and a man, you understand. So the truth is it has come to stay. How do you make it to your own advantage? It can be it can also be a form of disadvantage whereby what I show you and what you get is not the same thing. You get so, but aside that it can also be a form of advantage whereby I know that okay, I can design better using this tool.

SPEAKER_03 32:07

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:08

I can do this better using this tool. I can literally say, okay, I just wanted the background to be pure white, and just take this exact shoe and just place it there. And you will see that the only thing that is being altered is the background, the the surrounding. Yeah. But the product itself is still what it is.

SPEAKER_03 32:29

So I know that photographers might not like AI right now, and but guess what? Um, I think they should also take advantage of it and think of creating photos for clients. So if you don't want to do, you can also sell prompts to people, you know. Exactly. I'm in a WhatsApp group now where there's a person teaching how to prompt, how to create your own images and stuff. And trust me, I've been using it because it's true, because by the time you calculate model, location, photographer, this one, that one. Everything, logistics. Yeah. So it's it's just a lot. And so I look, I say, you know what, don't hate on it, embrace it, but don't use it to deceive people in that. Don't let it be like what I ordered versus what I received, in terms of so yeah. What's what's what's the future looking like for King David?

SPEAKER_00 33:24

Uh I mean, we're branching out into other things. You know, the future for us is um we're going into female, we're going into furniture, we're going into I love that furniture. Oh, yeah, yeah. Okay. Okay. Furniture going into chairs, baths. Lifestyle, basically. Lifestyle, b exactly. So that's uh the future for us.

SPEAKER_03 33:44

But for the women's footwear, is it uh is gonna be made here?

SPEAKER_00 33:49

Yes. So this is very interesting.

SPEAKER_03 33:51

You say yes, because you know, you and I know the struggle.

SPEAKER_00 33:56

Yeah, I know. So, so I would love to make these things here, you know, honesty. But if I if I'm being pushed against the wall, well, I don't have all that option or choice, I will know I tried.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

Designed in Nigeria, manufactured somewhere else. I don't see anything wrong with that because, and I'll give you an example. One time, this was pre-pan-pandemic, by the way. One time I spoke to a factory, they sent me the sample, I liked it, they made the shoes, the shoes arrived, and I nearly ran mad. I sat on the floor and cried for hours and hours. My friends were comforting me, but it was nonsense. What they delivered was not do you know what it is to open a box of shoes and the soul is already separated from the leather? And that's what you delivered to me in the hundreds. And I said, they said, Oh, um, there's not there's no excuse they did not give. That's the problem. And they tried to say, okay, sorry. They said I should send them back. I said, Are you nuts? How am I gonna send this back? Because this is to send it back is going to cost thousands of dollars. Who is gonna pay for that? Will you pay for the shipping? They said no. And they tried to, I said, you know what's gonna happen? I'm gonna report you to the chamber of commerce in your country. I'm going to write a formal letter to the the your the there was nothing, by the time I wrote out all the things I was going to do, then I said, okay, okay, okay, let's talk about, let's have a meeting, okay, let's do this. And then they now said, okay, we'll give you your money back. They didn't give me everything back, but they gave me most of it back. And I was like, okay, I'm good with that. Because, and I thought about it that if it were Nigeria, most likely we would hear, temper justice with mercy. I'm a family man. What will I do? They will sit on the floor. I take God beg you. I da da da da. You would chase the person. All I had to say is hello. I and I met these people at a a trade show. It's called Magic. Happens in different parts of the US. I met them and I saw their samples and I liked what they did. We exchanged contacts with the so you already showed me subs. So it's not like I just ordered nonsense. And I was like, I will report, and I said, I will report you to those people. You will never exhibit in that place again. Me. If I want to, if I want to never offend me. I know. I was talking to the camera, never offend me. Because they were like, okay, okay, okay, okay. And and this is again where, you know, a place where if you, if you, there are consequences. If you do good business, there are consequences for doing good business. If you do bad business and they report to you, your comp your your government can sanction you. They can prevent you because they know that if they prevent them from showing at that trade show, they will never meet other people from around the world again. It was like a trade fair for factories, and then you, who is a designer or whatever, you can go there and say, I want you to make this for me, I want you to make this for me. You negotiate on the spots and blah, blah, blah, blah. And I was just like, ah, I will report to you. And until you report it to those people, I report it to your government. And if you were Nigeria, where who are you going to report to there? And will you get swift answers like that? Most likely not. So, and this is why one of the reasons why some of us who make women's shoes still venture outside.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

So, I mean, yes, I would. I mean, I won't I wish you good luck with that. I won't discredit that because I can, like, like I said, I can relate. I've had experiences with the feminine side. You know, but on the other hand, I still feel, unless I'm so patriotic. Are you gonna buy the machines to make them? I don't mind. Okay, because it's expensive. Yeah, you know, okay. I actually don't mind. I don't mind. I don't mind um being the reason because of us people are able to put in, yeah, people can get jobs, people you know, put on the goal. Let's talk.

SPEAKER_03 38:02

You know, no, no, let's talk. No, if if you can create for me, I mean, if I bring my designer, say, make for me, be my factory, you know. Because no, because a lot of times also, especially if you are shipping, it a lot of people don't know this. If you are shipping something in from outside Nigeria, you have two options. You can do C, which is two to three months. Some people say six weeks, if you are lucky. And then you can do air, which is seven to ten days, or you can even do express. However, that seven to ten days is about ten dollars per kg. So calculate it. So, but sometimes the shipping cost is more than the cost you use to create the item. The item. If you do see, prepare to wait two to three months. Do you understand? And then the things can arrive and it will tell you that there's one customs officer, slap one custom officer, and they are protesting.

SPEAKER_00 38:53

And you know, you're fine, your decorator damage.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Or in between, before your stuff gets here, the exchange rates can go. I'll never forget 2015. Okay, early 2015, released my first collection. Those were the flats. And then when we sold the flats, we're now able to create just classic shoes for women. And those ones came in, and between when I it was ordered and when they came in, the exchange rate doubled. So when I started, the exchange rate was 180 naira, 180, 185. By the time the shoes arrived, the exchange rate was 300 and something. I was like, I was in panic mode. Like, what am I gonna do? And again, because the the vision for the brand was never luxury in that I wasn't being real, because how many people can afford luxury? I wanted, you know, affordable, high street type, good quality, but high street type, you know. So I was like, what, you know, there was a so these are things you need to think about as a business owner. So hugs to all business owners in Nigeria. I'm telling you, especially putwear designers. I wish you all the best. Any last words for um up-and-coming designers?

SPEAKER_00 40:09

Uh yeah, I would say passion is not enough. You can actually start with passion, but also look at how you can monetize that passion, you know, and um understand that this is a game of patience, it's a game of tolerance, it's a game of discipline, you know, and um with time, especially patience, because I remember myself, I had depressing nights when I'm like, God, I think I should be done with this. Nobody sees this. Nobody sees that. You know, there are times when you literally are confiding in your fellow colleague, like, what is going on, what is all this? You know, and another thing is always have a mentor, have someone you can talk to, someone that can relate and give you good advice. You know, because most times the mistake young designers make is they want to do it on their own. They forget that there are people who have been there, who have had these experiences, and who can be in a position to give you advice. So I can assure you, if you have a good mentor, at least 50% of your troubles will be avoided.

SPEAKER_03 41:20

But was your mentor a fashion entrepreneur as well?

SPEAKER_00 41:22

Yes. Tosin was one of my mentors. Okay. You know, Orange Barrio was one of my mentors.

SPEAKER_03 41:28

Oh, nice. Okay. You know, those are good people.

SPEAKER_00 41:30

Yes. So they would literally tell you how it is.

SPEAKER_03 41:34

The real real.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

The real real.

SPEAKER_03 41:36

Forget all the glitz and the famous.

SPEAKER_00 41:38

Yeah, I forgot who told me that the problem the footwear industry, in the footwear industry in Nigeria is having is everybody is producing the same things. Oh. And the and the moment that word came, it's You were like, okay, this is the problem I'm gonna solve. Yeah, it switched. I'm like, okay, maybe I'm not looking towards the right angle. Let me change my focus. At the moment I drifted my focus, I saw what I needed to see, and I'm like, okay, I need to capitalize from this place and start building from here.

SPEAKER_03 42:06

And the rest is history. And the rest is history. Congratulations. Thank you so much. And I wish you all the best. Looking forward to seeing more from you. And let's talk about that women's footwear. Yeah. Because it's not easy, trust me, it's not easy. I can't wait. I'm I can't wait to get uh women's footwear designers here so we can carry together because it's well. Do you love shopping? Do you love fashion? Would you love to get a gift voucher to shop at a Nigerian fashion brand, for example? All you need to do is download the Credit Direct app, follow Credit Direct, follow us at the Fashion Roundtable, show some proof in our DMs at the Fashion Roundtable on Instagram, and you could be.