thefashionroundtable
Honest fashion conversations from Nigeria 🇳🇬
thefashionroundtable
I’ve been threatened by angry fans - The Style Infidel | S1 E13
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
On this episode of The Fashion Roundtable, we sit down with Style Infidel for a candid conversation about fashion, styling, weddings, Fashion Week, pricing, and the realities of working in the Nigerian fashion industry.
From styling brides and grooms to helping shape some of fashion's most memorable moments, Style Infidel shares the lessons, challenges, and hard truths that many people don't see behind the glamour.
We discuss why many people resist paying stylists, whether Nigerian fashion is truly expensive, who holds the most power in the industry, and what needs to change for Nigerian fashion to earn greater global recognition.
If you're a designer, stylist, entrepreneur, fashion lover, or simply curious about the business behind the industry, this is a conversation you don't want to miss.
___
00:00 – Intro
01:44 – How he got into fashion
03:00 – How he landed his first gig
08:10 – The story behind the name Infidel
09:04 – Brides and Grooms of Infidel
11:18 – Why every couple should have a stylist
12:50 – Matching the bride and groom's looks
15:56 – The biggest fashion mistakes couples make
16:50 – What he does during Fashion Week
24:10 – Why people resist paying stylists in Nigeria
29:57 – Is Nigerian fashion expensive?
41:02 – Credit Direct Hype
41:32 – One uncomfortable truth about Nigerian fashion
50:57 – Is the fashion industry properly structured?
54:48 – Who holds the most power in Nigerian fashion?
1:04:44 – What must change for Nigerian fashion to be taken seriously globally
1:09:36 – Ready-to-wear and fast fashion brands
1:11:54 – Giveaway 🎁
1:12:00 – Outro
#StyleInfidel #NigerianFashion #FashionBusiness #FashionStylist #AfricanFashion #FashionWeek #WeddingFashion #BridalStyle #FashionIndustry #TheFashionRoundtable
This episode is brought to you by Credit Direct. Welcome to the Fashion Roundtable. My name is Bimi Olaterio Lagbigi, and this is where we document the conversation shaping the Nigerian fashion industry. Before we go any further, please like, subscribe, comment. I need those subscriptions, please. We need you to communicate, you know, to interact with the with the with the clips you see on social media, with this episode you're watching. So please make sure you do that. Thank you. God bless you as you do so. Great. Now, my guest today is a very special person. Um, he is a stylist, he's a creative director, and I'm sure he does much more within the Nigerian fashion scene. Um, he has built a reputation for pushing boundaries and redefining what style is. In fact, if you are getting married and you don't call this man, if you are doing fashion, what do they call it? Fashion week or weekend, and you don't call this man, are you serious at all? Please put your hands together for Tosin Ogunda Digby, popularly known as the Style Infidel. I believe people have eaten today. Uh-uh. Thank you. Welcome.
SPEAKER_00Thank you so much for having me, baby.
SPEAKER_04Welcome, welcome. I usually call you Mr. Tosi from Ibadong. So, first of all, like I said, you do a lot. Yes, I do. But can you give us like a brief overview? How did you even get into this world of Nigerian fashion?
SPEAKER_00How did I get into this world? I I would always describe it as an accidental romance. Gone rights.
SPEAKER_04Eh? Accidental romance.
SPEAKER_00Gone rights. Interesting. Let's go. So I wasn't expecting it. I think it happened during my extra years in uni.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And my mate had moved on. I was the only one left from my class. And I was bored. I was very bored. And in between it, we had the ass who strike and all. So on this particular day, I left my hostel, went to visit a friend, and then when I got to the room, I saw them watching Sex and the City, and I was like, what is this? So I sat down, watched one episode.
SPEAKER_04And you were in love.
SPEAKER_00And it just changed my life. So shout out to Patricia Feld, who was a stylist on the show. And my homegirl, sir Jessica Parker, Carrie Bradshaw, who is my biggest old. I am, I am, I am. So technically, that was how it all started. Extra year pushed me into fashion or made me just have an eye for it.
SPEAKER_04What were you studying?
SPEAKER_00Philosophy.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00I studied philosophy, Obafimeolo University. Okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_04So, and then so from there, you were like, okay, fashion is interesting. Let me get into it. So, how did you get your first gig? What happened?
SPEAKER_00First gig will be shout out to Tonyo Adini Gia Dele, who introduced me to Latasha Ongube. So, on that very faithful morning, I got a call from Latasha. This day, I'm a rise fashion, a rise magazine fashion week was going to kickstart that day. And then I got a call from Latasha saying someone had recommended me, blah, blah, blah. Where was I? And I said, I was in Yubado. And she was like, Can I make it to Lagos before eight? This was around six o'clock. Can I make it to Lagos before eight?
SPEAKER_04A.m.
SPEAKER_00Before 8 a.m. The first obstacle would have been to, I mean, would be for me to convince my parents, because Asu was on strike as to what I was going to do in Lagos. So I just went to them and said, Oh, they called me for a fashion show, and I would really love to go. And it took them at least some minutes for me to say, I mean, for them to approve and everything. Hit the next bus, carried my bag, ran to Federal Palace. And also that name you call me, Mr. Tosi from Ibado, was a nickname Latasha gave me.
SPEAKER_04Oh, wow. Yes.
SPEAKER_00And it was my first day of meeting her. She was like, Mr. Tosi from Ibado.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_00Why are you late? Because of this, I got there late.
SPEAKER_04Why did they call you? What had you done prior to that?
SPEAKER_00What had I okay? So technically, um, it was my first fashion experience at the fashion week at a fashion show. And I didn't know there were certain things you needed to have. I then was Blackberry. I didn't have a Blackberry. And then you needed to have a laptop at least. And I didn't have any of both. So it's just like, so Mr. Tosi from Ibado, what exactly did you come here with? That was what I mean.
SPEAKER_04Why did they want you to even so my question is before they even your name even came up as a recommendation, which what work had they seen?
SPEAKER_00I think Tonya just saw me as a passionate person who loved fashion. Who would be resourceful? Exactly. And they were looking for interns.
SPEAKER_04Okay, to help with the thing. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I came, I went in as an intern to also learn away from the fact that um you're ranging whatever little service and helping here and there.
SPEAKER_04Arise, isn't that the one where they would bring Naomi Campbell in from time to time? I remember her working before, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Yes. But be, I mean, before then it was Arise Magazine. I mean, they had a magazine. Yes. So it was Arise Magazine Fashion Week. Okay. And then it morphed into Arise Fashion Week.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Okay. So what did you learn on that experience?
SPEAKER_00A whole lot. A whole lot. Away from I think that was the very first time I saw Tiwa Savage. Okay. And I remembered on oh my god. I remembered on the carpet, someone was like, Tiwa Savvy too. And I was like, who is that? And the person looked at me like, what year was it?
SPEAKER_04Where are you from? What year were you from?
SPEAKER_00It was 2010.
SPEAKER_04Okay, she was getting into the industry.
SPEAKER_00It was 2010. I mean, I really happy, oh, Tiwa Savi, Tiwa Sav. And I was like, who is that? Like, what point are you from?
SPEAKER_01Ibado.
SPEAKER_00But it was it was an eye-opener to meet like the big names. And then it was um Lisa Flauber. She was known as Duo by Lisa. Yes, Duo by Lisa. Yes, and then there was Larry Da Silva, there was Tiffany Amba, I think Joola Sego showed that year. And then also like the International Designers Clock, CG C D G T. It was just brilliant. Big names. Ijure Mustafiri, Odio Mimone, Vive le Resistance. I don't know if they're still there. Great projects.
SPEAKER_04So many people.
SPEAKER_00A whole lot.
SPEAKER_04And so from then on, you're like, okay, this is where I'm supposed to be.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes. It was a complete eye-opener. This um the ladies on the style um team taught us a whole lot about um documenting and um journaling.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00Because I actually started out as a fashion journalist before styling even got into the books.
SPEAKER_04So what does a fashion journalist do? For those who don't understand what that means, does it mean like, for example, when there is a an event or like or something, you write about it or you journal, or is it was it were you doing like in a blog type situation?
SPEAKER_00No, you had to report because the way Marise Magazine worked back then was if a show happened now, because it was also going on like the website, and then a magazine, there was a magazine published every day. So for the shows for today, it comes out tomorrow. Okay, you have to be able to spot out the trends. Write about it, right, write about it, write about what is what is hitting at that moment. So you're looking at 10 to 15 collections, and a good part about a Rise Magazine fashion show, away from the fact that it gave like Nigerian designers that platform and that opportunity to show what they had, it happened at different tents, like how you would have it at on the international scene. So there's a show happening here. There's a show at the same time. Okay. So you're not only just working alone, you're also working with others, with others to see what was the headlining theme here, what was the direction here, what stood the show out. And I think for me, for that first show, one of the most remarkable shows I've ever seen in my life will be Ito Embassy.
SPEAKER_04Nice. She used to do a lot, she's doing a lot.
SPEAKER_00Genius.
SPEAKER_04Okay. That's interesting. And then that's a long time ago, 2010, where 2026 now. And then I started noticing some stuff years ago. Yeah. Um, you started to style weddings. Let's go into that. Next thing it was like Brides of the Infidel. First of all, how did you even get the name style infidel? Do you want the name? Do you want the meaning of infidel outlaw? Rascal. How?
SPEAKER_00Ah okay, so it was Sex and the City 2, where Carrie Bradshaw went shopping, and then the lady was like, Oh, that's been a long time since they saw her. And she was like, Oh, she's been cheating on fashion with furniture. Okay. I'm like, cheating, that's infidelity. Like you're married, people know you to be married to fashion. And then you're cheating on fashion. I was like, okay, the style infidel. I really don't believe in being loyal to trends and what what the society wants you to do. So if everyone is going left, I'm going right. If everyone is going right, I'm going left. I'm just gonna do what works for me. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_04Okay, okay. So let's talk about brides and grooms of the fight.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, lockdown. I think lockdown taught me a lot of things. The importance of being versatile as a stylist. And it's one thing I'm forever grateful for. And I would say this that if you have an editorial background, you literally can do anything.
SPEAKER_04What does an editorial background mean? For those who don't understand.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so having an editorial background is you short fashion, you've told fashion stories in magazines.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And what that does is it puts you, it puts your mind space in a very in a very fantasy-like world.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Where you can literally think it wouldn't doesn't necessarily need to make sense to anybody, or maybe people of just like minds. What that does to you is it affords you the ability to strip things down. Okay. What I love to call edits.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00It teaches you to know how to edit. And it also teaches your work or you as a craftsman to believe in whatever it is you do and let it be. Keep the soul of whatever story you're trying to tell. So lockdown happened, and jobs were incoming. It was even so funny that I mean, everybody was at home. I was um I resorted to teaching. I started teaching. I mean, people would reach out to me to say, Oh, um, I want to learn styling and everything. Fortunately for me, I was able to gather about five students and then would do classes Saturdays and Sunday, no Fridays, Saturdays, and Sundays, and all and I think after lockdown was lifted, I thought to myself, there has to be something else. So a bride was going to get married, and I think she had a little squabble with her previous stylist, and she reached out to someone, and personal's like, you should reach out to Tosin. Tosin is a fantastic style. She's like, But Tosin only does editorials. How is he going to be able to? Or she just took the chance. Shout out to Disola and she gave me my first opportunity, and we worked pretty well. This is still one of my, she's still a very close friend till date. And I think that's how it all started.
SPEAKER_04How important is it to have, or is it important to have a stylist for your wedding? For example, you know that you're getting married, you know that you and your husband like blue. Okay, this person make blue ashoki for me or something. I'm choosing ashoke because that's you understand. Yes. Or, you know, or George or whatever it is. Oh, yeah, we're hair. Why we I know the shoe that we match. I know Lola is my makeup artist. Uncle cut your hair. Why is it important to have a stylist for your wedding?
SPEAKER_00I always like to call it a once-in-a-lifetime experience. Also, the bride or the groom, they're most times overwhelmed. They have their usual nine to five or other things they're doing, they can't attend to everything all the time. But also, too, because of the culture shift in things right now, that everyone is very particular about what they wear. You need your third eye. Your stylist is your third eye. So you might feel like, oh, I mean, I dress well on a norm and all of that. But like I said, your third eye sees more than what you are seeing. And also the essence of the stylist is to take away that burden of you having everything on your head to just sort of simplify the process for you.
SPEAKER_04So let me give you an example. Yes. Let's say the bride likes straight, you know, like clean looks, not too much going on. Yeah. And the groom is like, I want my Agbada to be orange with all sorts of bidding. How do you marry those two different styles together? No point intended, but to get my point.
SPEAKER_00So I think at the end of the day, one thing I always say is I don't superimpose personally for me, I don't like to superimpose anything on anyone. But I'll give you my professional point of view that when I let them know this and this is exactly what will work. And I always remind them that this is why you hired me in the first place. They always just give me that, okay, you know what, twisting, whatever works. But whatever it is I'm gonna do, I'm not gonna separate your personality from who you're wearing in a way that when people see, when when they see you in your garments, they still see you. They don't see another version of you. Maybe a more upgraded version in terms of taste level.
SPEAKER_04I mean, I understand that apart from people who are maybe in the creative space or in the entertainment space, if you take like a nine to fiver, most likely, they are most likely working, you know, most of their attire or whatever is office wear. Yeah. And looking, you go to a wedding here, a wedding there, but they want to look really, really good. And they're wondering, okay, I don't want to also look like my wedding was from two years ago. So they might be thinking, oh, there was one trend like I like, and then you're like, ah, that one has passed too. How do we make your look timeless? Exactly. That's the word, timeless. It got to a point where I would see a bride and a groom, and I before looking at the credits, I would already know that it was your work because there's a way that they look very well put together, very well tailored. Yes, you know, so I I could just tell, like, uh, this is this is and they also looked expensive. Ah, there was, I can't remember, there were so many weddings, but there was one wedding. I saw the bidding, I saw the I said, hmm, and then I now checked the designer. Marve, uh, how do you pronounce it? Marve?
SPEAKER_00Marvey.
SPEAKER_04Hey, that person that they're ready to wear is four million. And the couple changed like three, four times. I saw different, I was like, ah, okay, we'll talk about money. No problem. But what is the biggest mistake that couples make when it comes to their wedding looks, for example?
SPEAKER_02Hmm.
SPEAKER_00That you've seen that I have seen when it comes to their looks. So um, it would always be a case of so one thing I always try to say from the get-go is if your friends see in purple all the time, there has to be a shock factor. Because a lot of times, a lot of them will tell you, oh no, it's purple, I'm comfortable in purple. But when we're doing like your color analysis, we do the color analysis with the skin. And we are not only doing that of you, the bride, we also have to consider the groom, even if we're not styling the groom. So we do a color, a color analysis and let you know that yes, first and foremost, your friends have seen you in this purple. All the time. All the time. So the first question I'll ask is what are your favorite colours? So once you tell me your favorite colours, I know that the colors are not going to.
SPEAKER_04What but I'm sure you find a way to incorporate it somehow, somewhere.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, maybe with maybe in a little, it might not be like the main look, it could be accessories, it could be little beadwork here, or little tiny details here and there, but it won't be the core because there always has to be that surprise element at the end of the day. If I see, if if your friend's seeing popular and your wedding is seeing purple, then there's no surprise, there's no there's no shock factor. So most times it is technically listening to listening to the client. You always have to listen and you always have to keep an open mind and find a balance.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Okay. Let's let's shift gears now and go back to the fashion weeks, fashion weekends. Yes. We know as that now, there are two major um uh events, fashion events towards the end of the year. There's a fashion week, there's a fashion weekend. Yes. You are involved with both somehow, somehow. Yes. Can you tell us in a nutshell what you do for those those events?
SPEAKER_00Hmm. Okay, so for Fashion Weekend, I work as a lead stylist for the shows where we technically are coordinating running orders, seeming to be that the designers get exactly what they want. We're interpreting mood boards. Sometimes the designers don't give you exactly what they want, but from like the storyboard they give you. You as a stylist have to come up with preferred hair and makeup. We also do a lot of advisory for the models. For the models, yes, with the designer in the know, of course. We also do a lot of advisory from, say, like editing the look. So one thing I realized with a lot of Nigerian designers, and I don't blame them, because the truth is you never would know which would be your cash cow. So when a designer designs 40 pieces, they want the 40 pieces to hit the runway. But the job of the stylist is to say, maybe from this 40, you only have 30 that are really good or that are very strong, and then the remaining 10 look like add-ons. So it is the job of the stylist to edit. So even for like the shows, we always have we always have to do that with some of the designers that are willing. Like I say, I think it's just material. That are willing. Yes. Okay. Like I said, I with my own personality, I'm not one to superimpose anything on anyone because I also understand that we're adults and everyone has a right to make up their minds on whatever works for them. So technically, you're doing that, putting the running order together, ensuring the models are also of their best behavior and everyone is in check and that the show goes as planned.
SPEAKER_04Are you involved with picking up the models too?
SPEAKER_00Um, last year, GT, but it's okay. Last year, Fashion Weekend involved me in the in picking the models, in traveling, and then we also had the Lagos casting as well. I was involved in picking the models, and I would tell you that I think each year they would want new faces.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00New faces, great walk. Yeah. Things like that. Yes, things like that. And then with um Fashion Week, I have private clients who show. Some show at the tent.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Some do off-shed shows and off-site shows.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, they have like their own private shows.
SPEAKER_00They have their own private shows, but sometimes it's still under, sometimes it's not. And technically, what I do is this, I mean, with these other ones, it's from casting to fittings to um editing. And when I say editing, some even get you as a consultant. So you're not just the stylist, you're also consulting for what the show would look like, the sets.
SPEAKER_04What this what music is going to play, what the models are going to wear, how do you think how they're going to work.
SPEAKER_00You're going to choreograph the show.
SPEAKER_04There's a lot of thoughts that is put into everything. People just think it's just for the clothes to just for the models to wear the clothes and just walk. So any music, there's a story, there's there are different designers that will pick a particular type of song. They will tell the models walk this way. You can't do bridal and be matching like a soldier. Oh. For example. John, I'm giving examples. You know, if you are doing evening where you want them to be elegant, even the way the the models look sometimes. Oh, I want curvier models, or I want taller models, I want them more, you know, different basics. Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I think that has really, really helped shape the industry in a way that it is not it is not to a particular body type. There's a plethora of body types that to work with. So you'd have full figured, you have slim, you just have a range.
SPEAKER_04And then there's mid-size now the call. You are not slim, you are not uh you're not full um plus size, you're kind of in the middle. Okay.
SPEAKER_00But I think, I mean, shout out to all to um all the fashion weeks and all the private shoes that happen for giving, I mean, for giving range, or putting range. Because I remembered at some point in the fashion industry, it was mostly about the really slim size six, size fours. But now you can get a size 20 on the show.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. I have a question though. For those who don't understand the importance of like a fashion week or a fashion weekend, what does it do for a designer's career? Can showing at Fashion Week or Fashion Weekend help your bottom line in terms of profit? Is it, you know, are people gonna see it and go, Oh wow, I love that dress, I must buy it, or I must um consult this designer and say, make me something like this, but this time, I guess, um, custom or some for some designers a few years ago, they would say, it doesn't do anything, Joe. It's just noise and nothing happens. In today's world, if a designer asks and says, Do you think I should take part in these activities, what will it do for my brand?
SPEAKER_00Hmm. What will it do for your brand? Okay, so to be honest, I think one of the things I would really love to see away from the whole away from like media bars and the likes. Because let's be honest, media bars would always translate, sometimes would always translate into cash. I remember last year I was a fashion maker, I went as a guest, and there were new designers showing, and just watching, I was able to order from like four different designers.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Just seeing. I'm not a buyer, I'm a cons like I consume. At the end of the day. So I wouldn't necessarily say take away the media boss. But what I would really love to see is have actual buyers, okay. Investors at these shows to really invest in fashion, invest in these designers and all. But all in all, I would still go back to say whether you're if you're show, if you if it comes from whatever angle you're looking at it from, where if you're showing, and let's just imagine there are no buyers, just take it at the guest there. You have over 2,000 people, at least you would have at least five people interested in buying one piece from you.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So it is never a waste.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_00And when you say buyers, yes.
SPEAKER_04Um, do you mean fashion buyers? Fashion buyers. They are buying maybe for either a client or maybe like a store abroad or something like that.
SPEAKER_00A store abroad, a store within, I mean, a store within Africa. I mean, we have concept stores in Lagos now that can easily say, oh, I like this particular, I mean, I like this designer. I think their aesthetic would work for what we store or for the kind of women or men that love to shop with us. Okay, I liked um look number five, look number eight, I want it, we want it exclusively to us, meaning you can't produce it for anyone else. If people want it, they would have to come and buy from us, and we're willing to pay you for it, not just make and keep in store.
SPEAKER_04That makes sense.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04So I think people, because I for people who feel like it doesn't translate or it doesn't make any sense. I also even think for documentation. If I Google your brand, what is popping up? Is it, oh, am I seeing your beautiful pieces on the runway? Am I seeing that you've put in the work? Am I seeing that they are dragging you? True. True. We're gonna talk about that as well. So, like, what's what is your what's that word now? Wendy, what's your digital footprint, for example? Yeah, so things like that. Very important. Okay. Um let's talk about money. Hmm, there's still a resistance to paying stylists properly in Nigeria. Agree or disagree?
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_04Why do you think there is this resistance?
SPEAKER_00I think until people understand the work that goes into it. People just think, oh, it's just a case of if it's just to pull, it's just to do this, it's just to do that. And I know everyone starts from because I'll be honest with you, the things I know now things I knew back, and I had to read up and learn and make mistakes and learn from my mistakes and just sort of hold on and run with it. But the truth is, styling is it can be mentally draining. Especially for those that probably do maybe red carpet styling, and you have four or five clients that you're consistently attending to, four or five clients with different personalities, and you have to be able to interpret. It is a lot of work that I wish if people actually sat down and thought about it. That this person is not just pulling, they're curating.
SPEAKER_04So they're not just saying, Oh, you need a nice dress for red carpet for AFC. Yes. Okay, let me call so-so-and-so designer. Please, this person, she's big now, she wear your outfit now, you blow now.
SPEAKER_00It's not like that. Okay, so like I said, we all learn through, we're all learned through through the, we've all learned through the years. For me, I would research deeply. Am I doing 50s Dior? Am I doing Theory Mogler? Am I doing, am I going the route of um Yves Saint Laurent? What exactly am I? What how do I want to tell my story? I mean my story on this particular person. Knowing fully well that I'm not the one wearing it. She's the one wearing it, she's the star. It is a lot. Am I marrying all of these errors together to be able to achieve this? There's a lot of back and forth. And sometimes I wish stylists would really reveal the back and forth that happened. So I'll give you an instance.
SPEAKER_04This is why the fashion round was here.
SPEAKER_00There's a wedding. We did a wedding last week. And I would tell you, maybe one of these days, I'll probably just put up on my story. We had about 13 sketches.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Where we'd say, we have approved on this. And then I sleep at night and I wake up in the morning and I'm like, no, I'm not satisfied. I call my design team to say, nah, it's not going to work. And I tell the designer, please hold on, give me two days. I need to get it. It is a lot of mental work.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And I feel too, people realize that it is not just, I'm going to pull. I had no designer. I know. And that's why I always tell stylists, read. Read. It is not just what are they reading? Books. Okay. Know your onions. Understand exactly what you're doing. So um Zendaya released a movie, I think The Drama. And there was something blue, something borrowed, something new. Sort of.
SPEAKER_04And also because she's rumored to have gotten married in real life. Yes. Though people, you know, her client have her name? The stylist.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04Her stylist rather had hinted at oh, the wedding was weeks ago. So yeah, there's it's it's she has a movie called The Drama. I don't know what it has to do with weddings as well. So, but there's this saying called um something old, something new, something, something blue. So for her press run, she's been doing different things. I saw the blue that. Yes, I saw that. So she she incorporated everything.
SPEAKER_00Thought process.
SPEAKER_04I get it.
SPEAKER_00I think if we if we let people know that it is a lot more than I'm going to pull. You can't just pull. You can't just pull. And that's why sometimes a lot of my clients will be like, uh, Tosin likes to take his time. I love to take my time.
SPEAKER_04I understand.
SPEAKER_00I can tell you today that, oh, this is what you're going to wear, and I sleep and I'm not comfortable with it. And I'll tell you, I'm so sorry, this is not working. I mean, I thought it was going to work. But on the flip side, I think we can actually do more.
SPEAKER_04This is random, but what do you how do you deal with a client who says, Tosin, I want you to style me. This is the dress I want to wear. I think it will be wonderful. And then you look at this person, you look at their body type, their height, and you know that it's not a style that will fit them. What do you say? What are the words? So this is me.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I am 5'2. I've seen this outfit on a model that is six feet tall. And I say, this is the outfit that I want. To say make it happen. Talk to me.
SPEAKER_00I think the first thing I would always say is it is very important for a stylist to have finesse intact in relating to clients. We live in very sensitive times. And you have to be very careful of your choice of words of how you address those kinds of situations. I'll legit tell you reasons why it won't work.
SPEAKER_04Tell me.
SPEAKER_00I would let you understand that body types are very different. It wouldn't really flatter, it might be too tight, or that because this person is really tall, and I mean that there's a bit of a height difference. It might look very overwhelming, overpowering on you. The person has more height to sort of hold it on you, it might fall flat. So there are just ways by which you can just go about it and let them know, okay, even based off skin tone, the reason why this looks good is because of a skin tone. The skin tones are pretty much different. But like I said, the finesse and tact.
SPEAKER_04So how to communicate with your clients. Now, will you say Nigerian fashion is expensive, or people are just not used to paying what it actually costs?
SPEAKER_00Uh I would say it's relative. I would say it's very relative. So I'll give you an instance.
SPEAKER_04Is it expensive? Sorry.
SPEAKER_00No, I'll give you an I'll give you an instance. And I'm not going to mention brands. I know people who pay as much as $7,000, $8,000 for their Ashoke. Yes. I know people who will pay that much. And I've had a client pay as much as my ears, sorry.
SPEAKER_04I've tried not to fidget. $7,000 for Ashoke, you're going to wear one time.
SPEAKER_00But like I said, it's a memorable one. It's a once-in-a-lifetime. If you want to splurge on your no, I mean, like I said, there's a range. Some people tell you, oh, Tristan, I just want something simple. If I'm going to splurge on myself, I'd rather buy diamonds and buy this and buy that. With me, I don't superimpose.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I put my my seven thousand dollars for ashwoky. There are people who do that. What would they do to the ashokey that is making it seven thousand dollars? You pretty much are they putting diamonds on it? No. Is it not the same village that we weave it? No. Why are they weaving? Is it gold they're weaving inside?
SPEAKER_00So one thing I always try to tell people is you can't put price on creativity.
SPEAKER_04Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00And then at some point you have to leverage on your name as well.
SPEAKER_04Which name?
SPEAKER_00Ha! Which name? If this is going to be caught, let's just have this conversation off.
SPEAKER_04Which name? Okay, so just because no, no, okay, jokes apart. Okay, listen, jokes apart. So a designer is known, they've paid their dues, they've paid in full, they've been doing this thing since 19 Buguru. I love it. Wonderful for you. However, $7,000 kilon. Sorry, I had to go to my mother tongue.
SPEAKER_00What are you sewing? But some people pay as much as $10,000, $20,000 for a Hermes bag.
SPEAKER_04That's very good for them and Ms. Who asks them because Mio.
SPEAKER_00I really believe, I really believe, like I said, you can't put price on creativity. And almost like the same I was talking about stylist and the sleepless nights and all that goes into it. It's the same thing the designers go through. Okay. But taking me taking me back to your question, it is relative.
SPEAKER_04There's a bell ringing in my head. And not because it is Ashokay, but you know, I hear of these things. Well, I've been in this industry for a long time. You know, I have colleagues that are carrying 10,000, 20,000, $50,000 bags, you know, uh watches and things. That's wonderful for you. But I maybe because people will abuse me and can say, because you don't have it, because if you had it, it won't be a problem.
SPEAKER_00Priorities are different.
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_00Because in all honesty, I've seen um clients who will tell me, oh, Twiston, I'd rather put so much into my into my white, or I'd rather put so much into my jewelry or my accessories because I can use them after. Can we get a good bargain or can we get a good deal? And all of that. Like I said, it's reality. For some, that for some, even that seven eight is peanuts. Like to see, are you sure they would someone even say, Are you sure they can really deliver if they are collecting this?
SPEAKER_04So that means that your clients are the one percent of the one percent of the one percent, meaning that because my next question was gonna be have you turned down work because the budget is not budgeting.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, but I think for me also it's I think it's connection.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00So if at my first consultation I see that we're not connecting, or you probably tell me I know what I want. If you know what you want, it technically means you don't need my service, or you probably just need me as a dresser, or you need me as an errand person who would be doing what you want. Do you understand? If I see that there's we don't really connect, I would rather, and it's vice versa. You'd also have clients who just be like, mm-hmm, would you really gel? And that's very, very, it's very okay. Okay. And also to sometimes, but because I don't I don't discuss money again. My manager, my manager management handles the money part, and if they feel this is what in fact they so how does it work?
SPEAKER_04So do people reach out and say, Okay, I want uh my special event is happening on so and so dates. Yes, I would like for you to style me. Do you then do they then do you then say, Okay, come for a consultation?
SPEAKER_00This is the cost of the consultation, and then from there, you now tell them this is the budgets, or so how it starts is they tell you to send your rate card, and I think at that point, you already give them an idea if they want to come or they want to go elsewhere. Okay, and then they reach out to, I mean, send you an email, they schedule a consultation, a paid consultation, we have the consultation. If we're both, like I said, it's vice versa. If I don't, they might not connect with me, I might not connect with them, but also to for the sake of peace, because baby, like I always tell you, I don't like wala. Peace of mind over everything. If I see that we're not connecting, and then if I also now get to a point where we now share the budget with you, and you're like, oh, this is what's out. My in fact, I don't really do too much of talking. Once I let my management know it's not going to work, they pass the message across to the client to say, Oh, it's not going to work, and this is the reason why it's not going to work.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04If you have a your consultation, you've already shared some ideas with the client or something, and they decide not to work with you anymore, and they go work or they take your ideas and go elsewhere.
SPEAKER_00Has this happened before? Yes, that's I mean, happened before, maybe before I got before I had my manager. Okay. Shout out to Dalakwa Habib. Um, so what happens at consultations now is we spread we spread it into two parts. There's the first consultation where we're technically getting to know you, we're not sharing ideas. And the second part of the consultation is where we're presenting a mood board. That means you have agreed to move on with us. Then we get back to another consultation, which is consultation 1D.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_00And then at that point, we're now we now take the things that you have shared with us from the first consultation, we give it a fashion translation, we present to you. If you're very okay with the ideas, then we move to the third bit. Now, the third bit is assigning the tasks to designers based off their strength.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00So some are we know some designers are very good with clean tailoring, fine, impeccable work. And we have some that are very good with bead work. So depending on how the client comes, comes through. We're able to tell you that okay, if you want that very fine, Yves No Laurent, 60s Tailoring, Atafo, Tyre, Gabriel are the people to work with. If you want um Bedazzle and the whole 20s glamour, um, you can work with Marvi, you can work with Bukola. I mean, their names, there are people that are very, very good at that. And we move from there, get there. I mean, you'd have seen their red card as well, and then you proceed from there. You know, you pick what works for you.
SPEAKER_04Ladies and gentlemen, it's not easy. From what I'm hearing, just have money. That's all I'm gonna say. Have you ever seen your work replicated or your ideas replicated? And how did you handle it? Which I have seen, or I've seen stuff where you have this person took my work.
SPEAKER_00A whole lot. To be honest with you, peaceful mind. Maybe I'm not um because there is plenty from where it's coming from. So I'm never really bothered or disturbed.
SPEAKER_04And um, it does not pain you. One idea that maybe you saw in your dream, you sat down, you sketched it, everybody loved it, and two weeks later you see someone copying it.
SPEAKER_00Before I used to be like, ah, why would this path? But these days, I'm just I just keep it moving. I'm a very unproblematic person. I don't like, I'm very non-confrontational. That's just me.
SPEAKER_04Do you think that copying is a big problem in the Nigerian fashion?
SPEAKER_00It is a big problem. Okay, it is a big problem because you're ripping off someone else's sweats. And then what's even crazy is you now sell for cheaper. And I feel if you really call yourself a creative, you should be able to. I've been staring at that um that um decor and what is coming to my mind. I mean, you're creative, you can see anything and translate it into anything on the spot. So if I come into this place now, I'm seeing too many things that I feel like, ah, this would really look good as an embroidery. If I transfer, if I transform this into a design, that's how your mind should work.
SPEAKER_04It should not be like copy and paste.
SPEAKER_00You just copy and paste. You can reference. We all reference. Juge, we all reference. And that's why you have Pinterest and you have Tumblr and the likes. We all reference different eras and different designers, but to copy and paste.
SPEAKER_04Speaking of Pinterest, so this happened last year or two years ago. Someone, there's a particular designer who is known for the way her dresses look.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_04This applies to so many people, by the way. And someone went to her tailor, took the picture of one of her dresses, went to her tailor, sewed it, and then wore it for a wedding, and then tagged her and said, I was inspired by your design. So I had my tailor sew it. What do you think? And she was like, What do you mean? What do I think? You copied. Don't tell me.
SPEAKER_00You didn't copy it.
SPEAKER_04You know, and then it became a whole conversation on social media. People were like, you should thank her, or you should, you know, encourage her. And some people were like, What do you mean? And then people were like, Well, did you get your dress copied? Did you your dress is all over Pinterest? I'm sure you got the idea from there.
SPEAKER_00So there's something I mean, I've I said this over and over again: editing. Editing, you can edit an idea from the whole into the tiniest bit. And that is why I always say that's why you I think I learned editing from being an editorial stylist. You have to, you will strip it down. So you put a jacket on a dress, and then you step back and you're like, nah, it needs a belt, or it needs um, it needs um bigger juice. You always have to, you step back, you add, you take out editing. So if you have an idea now, rather than copy, rather than copy verbatim, okay, you know what? This person put the sleeves this way. Let me take out the sleeves, let me add this color, let me switch the silhouettes.
SPEAKER_04Makes sense. Makes sense. As businesses grow, things become a little bit more complex. Um, more transactions, more responsibilities, and more decisions. Now, credit direct business helps simplify that growth with seamless payments and business-focused credit solutions. It allows you to scale without losing clarity or control of your business. So if you are at that stage where things are expanding and you need systems that can keep up, you can explore the business tools available in the credit direct app. What is one uncomfortable truth about the Nigerian fashion industry? I'm sure you're looking at me and thinking, one. So feel free to mention more than one. You don't have to mention anybody's names uh or anybody's name. I mean, if you I mean if you're about a life. But tell us what you what you can mention more than one.
SPEAKER_00One uncomfortable truth that people don't say enough. That um I would say that creatives also get tired.
SPEAKER_04Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Creatives also get tired.
SPEAKER_04Is that uncomfortable?
SPEAKER_00People people don't want to believe that. They just believe you're in Hogwarts doing we guardium lady of and you're doing all of that. They don't want to be, they just believe you just do this and then he appears.
SPEAKER_04You think it's easy?
SPEAKER_00It's not.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00And it's also very funny that we also, because of that joy to always deliver, we don't give ourselves that grace to say, you know what, I'm tired. Can I take a day off today? I need to rest. Or you communicate with the client, say, Oh, Twisting's taking a day off today, or taking one week off, or we'll be here to support and everything. I think the earlier people understand that we're human as well, and that we can also get tired. I I think people will be more gracious in how they deal with us. But I think it's also our own responsibility as creators or as people in the fashion community to be able to speak up for ourselves to say, um, hello, bimmy, can I get a day um a day or two of? I promise I'll get back to you after a day or two. I just need some time to rest. I know Bimi is not such a nasty person that she won't understand. But I think that communication part of, oh yes, where we communication can be challenging for us. Let me put it that way. Yes, let me put it that way. And that's why, to be honest, I have a I have a large team.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00I have a large team. I'm very bad with, like I said, I'm very non-confrontational. I don't, um, I used to be very bad with communication and all of that. So I have a team that sort of handles that. Oh, Mr. Tristan is not available right now. He'll get back to you later in the evening, or he'll get back to you tomorrow, or whatever it is, they need to step on, they step on it without me being there. So I think communication and just understanding that we're also humans who get tired and request for grace.
SPEAKER_04I'm gonna say one. The uncomfortable. Truth stylists need to do better in terms of dealing with clients. Okay, if I should write a book on the shaggy that I have been dealt with by Nigerian stylists for real, female, pre- and post-pandemical, they've shown me pepe. In fact, let me give you this most recently. So I had a um for this show.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_04I had a photo shoot. Okay, yeah. Um, discussed with the client, with the with the stylist, but you know, what we're trying to do. We agreed, you know. First of all, the person gave me a bill that I kid you not can rent a nice apartment in Lecky Phase One. It was so expensive. When I screamed, Jesus, my husband ran into the room. Like, what happened? And I called the person, I said, But I told you that I'm not trying to do too much. Yes, I want. Do you understand? If you do you understand, but the person was like, okay, so he edited it and came back to me. Maybe that was where I offended this person because he now on the day of the shooting, he even picks the day of the shoot based off of his availability, and I went along with it. I got everybody together. I did not have money for creative director. So I got every, I was one that called everybody, hair person, makeup, this one, that one, that one, photographer, everything. We all agreed to show up at a certain time on the day of, in fact, so that things will not be, and I'm not a I'm not uh I'm not the kind of person that will tell you, oh, the shoot is starting at one and then I'm strolling in at three. I'm I'm I'm very prompt. Yes, thank you. Even so that this this shoot, I'm traumatized, so that these shoots will not um waste time. The makeup artist and hair person came to my house as early as 6 a.m. So hair and makeup were done. So the point is I walk into the studio, I wear the outfits, we shoot. Time was 10 a.m. 11 12. This person did not pick up, this person did not answer messages. So I now had to call Kumbi and it was a Sunday and beg her to open her store. Okay, I didn't bring anything from my except shoes, and then so she had to get her stuff. It was a Sunday to open the store, and then I had to drive all the way to her store and then pick some things in a hurry, then drive back the traffic. And then all that happened, and then do you know when this person showed up? Four o'clock. Four o'clock, call time 10 a.m. And it's not the first time it's happened to me. Another time, this one was even pre-pandemic, like two or three big names though, will plan shoots, and it's not free. I've paid money.
SPEAKER_00Oh, yes, I know you always pay.
SPEAKER_04I pay money on the day of ghost me. There was a shoot that I was supposed to do, and the stylist ghosted me. The person that was doing my makeup, Theo. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. She's like, Baby, don't worry, don't worry, let's not cancel. Let us go. And the person that was the photographer was um Tuckware Adam. Tuckware uploaded. So she went to my closet and we picked out things. It was Theo that styled me for that shoot. And that was till today, that stylist has not said, I'm sorry, this is what happened. These are revered names, though. If I don't want to measure anybody's name, so they really, and it's always the stylists, they really need to do better, like it's a mess. Like it's a no, it's happened like five times. Gelubay, I'm that I don't know what it is, but they really need to do. And I don't want it to be like I feel like we always try and pretend that everything is fantastic and wonderful. That's not. And I'm not like that. It's not like I like to fight, of course. But if you mess up, I will tell you. I'm not gonna disrespect you, but I will tell you that you messed up, you know, and yeah, that was just not cool. Like, so a lot of times, and that was the first time I was working with a stylist in years because of the shaggy they had shown me over the years.
SPEAKER_00So I I think, like I said, it's communication. I think it's what artists struggle with a lot, but it's not an excuse to misbehave. I've had my own fair share as well. And I think one thing I and I think this is a thing of um upbringing or home training, that if you err, you apologize and you look for how to make up for it and all of that. But I think it's something we all struggle with. Now, I know my communicating with me is because my mind is literally working all the time, is why I have a team that handles that. And then when maybe I'm much calmer or in a more sinner climate, then I can then respond and do whatever it is I need to do. But one thing I know artists or creators or stylists in focus, one thing I know we sort of struggle with is communication. You'll be surprised that on that very day, which I feel whoever the person is, they should still have communicated one way or the other, maybe used an assistant. So please reach out to Bammy and let her know so, so, so, and so. But I can bet with you that that particular they were probably trying to look for more options.
SPEAKER_04So imagine now, nobody had, and again, I'm not a last minute minute person.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_04They had a lot of time. Time. Like we've been talking for a month. Okay. Do you understand? This person picks the dates.
SPEAKER_00Oh, baby.
SPEAKER_04I'm telling you, I know it takes a long time. I know it takes a long time to style things and to put things.
SPEAKER_00No, you, I'm even saying you are right, but the way the mind works is you can wake up that morning and be like, you know what? I don't have enough.
SPEAKER_04His excuse was that he thought the shoot was the next day. I was like, Okay, we created a group, we put all the I overcommunicate. We checked with do you understand? The next as in the next there were a few days too. Gentle reminder, I'll use gentle reminder to finish you. I reminded you about today like four times. Do you understand? So nobody can tell me, and so I was just like, and this has happened more than once. And I'm just like, we'll do better. Is it because I appear to be calm or I try my best to not be disrespectful? Maybe if I had flipped out, it's and then they and we start fighting and the blogs carry us. Maybe people will realize that this girl don't mess with her or something. But yeah, that's one thing that people really need to work on. Let's talk about structure.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_04Do you think the fashion industry is structured, or are we still informal? We're winging it.
SPEAKER_00I think it is everything. A mix. You would know, you would always know the ones that sort of have structure.
SPEAKER_04They're organized.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, they're very organized. So I wouldn't want to use names, I wouldn't want to mention names and everything, but they're designers that's a business.
SPEAKER_04Mention it, then beat you.
SPEAKER_00They're designers that I have worked with that. I can literally tell you I can go to bed to sleep.
SPEAKER_04Because you know they will deliver.
SPEAKER_00One of them is the iconic Jola Segel. The process is phenomenal. Like the structure, it is so good. They will let you know, okay, once you make up your mind on the style you want, you have 28, I mean 24, 48 hours to seal it. Once you don't get back to them, you get an email saying we have agreed to, even down to the color, they're showing you the colors to say this and this. It's on record, you know what time you're coming for your first fitting with time in specific. So if Dola tells you 12, you don't get it before 12, you're there 12 sharp.
SPEAKER_04If your fitting is supposed to be from 12 to 12:30, and you come at 12:30 and there's another fitting happening, you would have to like I love organized people, structured people, people who are not just Higgy Haga, anyhow, because yeah, trust me.
SPEAKER_00The process is very daughter's um line clan. Yes.
SPEAKER_04As at gosh, what year was this now? 2013. A long time. I was yeah, I was their customer and I was wowed by the way they were so organized.
SPEAKER_02Yes.
SPEAKER_04You know, it was it was at her place that I think I wanted a particular outfit. I saw it on their page. Okay, I want to buy, and they were like, No, you have to come in. I was like, I went in anyway, and they were like, Oh, please go into the fitting room. I was like, I'm not trying on anything, I just want to take measurements and go. Then one little Filipino lady came and said, You have to remove all your and that was the first time I did, I took measurements with just no clothes on because they were like, Oh, we have to be very, very precise. She took the measurements like three times just to be sure that she took the correct measurements, and I was like, What? But when those clothes came out, they fit like a glove. I wore them for over 10 years. The fabric did not fit. Not I still have the clothes till today. These are clothes from 2012, 2013. The fabric is still solid. You know, I wouldn't tell that's why I wouldn't tell people how much I paid because I didn't want them to look at me as wasteful.
SPEAKER_00You know when you buy something that's expensive, I don't tell anybody. But the truth is, you're looking at it 10, 15 years down the line and it is still good.
SPEAKER_04That's what I'm saying.
SPEAKER_00Like, you know, I know I told someone that they will like they'll look at me like, eh.
SPEAKER_04So it's like you have money, but I would rather buy quality things than buy cheap things that you would wear twice, three times, and it's faded. Life is over, is losing, that sort of thing. So that's why I'm always like, no matter how much, I know I sh I shout about how expensive things are, but if your stuff is going to be expensive, let it be exceptionally good. Let it be that it is not the same 2k crep that you are now selling for 500k.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_04There has to be, there has to be a reason.
SPEAKER_01I agree.
SPEAKER_04Those clothes, I mean, I'm a little plumper now, but if I bring out the clothes, they are still, and I've worn them. So if I had to put them at the back of my closet to say, Wait me, let not be as if you don't have clothes. I've worn them for a lot of things over the years, over the years, over the years. I give away one or two, but those the fabric is still is not pulling thread, it's not nah, no, anywho, who holds the most power right now in Nigerian fashion? Is it designers? Is it stylists? Is it influencers? Is it the clients or you know, or the should I say the OGs?
SPEAKER_00Power is relative. Okay, power is relative. When it comes to referrals, I would say the stylist.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00When it comes to craftsmanship, definitely the designers.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00When it comes to um sort of helping like the consumers make up their mind, most times it's the influencers.
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00And yeah, I think every, like I said, power is relative. You can't really say, oh, this is the one person who I mean, many thanks to media, people you do that gate. I mean, that whole gatekeeping thing is gradually phasing out. You can put your work out there, more people can see you.
SPEAKER_04You don't have to know anybody per se. Yes. Okay.
SPEAKER_00So I think power is relative, and I think everyone in their own space is sort of holding. And this is not me being political, to be very honest with you.
SPEAKER_04I just remembered something. That's why I'm smiling.
SPEAKER_00Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_04I just remembered something. When I first started with me so keys, yes, uh, this was 2015. I, you know, did the little publicity I could do, your Bella Ninjas and the popular blogs, you know, talked about it. And, you know, it was it was nice. Um, people would buy and so on and so forth, um, and all that. There were no influencers per se, like then. And I remember an OG. I'm not gonna mention the OG. She's she's popular and older. And she said to me, she saw me at an event, and she said, she's very, very old school, I've realized. Okay. And she said to me, You've not come to see me about your brand that you launched. I was like, oh. It didn't occur to me that I had to take it to her and say, hello, ma, this apparent, because that's what some people want. Ah, hello, ma, this is my product. She wanted me to come, you know that, oh, come and see me. Let me approve, let me help you, that sort of thing. I was like, oh. And I I don't know, maybe I'm a little bit rebellious. My mind, I was like, and so as she drove off, I saw at an event and she was coming out. I was, I was she was leaving, I was at I was coming in, and so I walked her to her car as she as she drove off. My mind I was like, but who are you? And why do I have to and why do I have to present this thing to you? Did you give me money to start it? Are you joking? That was my thought. And I was like, I beg. And somebody was saying to me, ah, you know, you have to go to these aunties, and you have to, you know, you have to, you have to um yes, you have to, you know, um, you know, rub shoulders with them. That's like, you know, do that whole suck up to them, that do that whole auntie. And I'm not like that. So I was like, why? Are you good? Another time, it was the launch of something. I'm not gonna mention what it was. This one was not women's okay shoes, and we sent evites to everyone. This was 2020, just at the beginning of the pandemic. So we sent in evites to everybody via email, you know, this one, that one, that one. She didn't come. Then I later, then I was invited to a dinner. I was invited to a dinner and I saw her. We're all waiting to get into the dinner. And I said, Ah, we had our something, ma. We invited you. She said, Yes. She now pulled out a physical invite from her bag and said, You sent email. There are certain people you don't send email to. She now she said, This she said, I'm sure you got an email for this event, right? I said, Yes. She now pulled out a physical copy. There's some certain people you send physical copy. And I said, Ah, sorry, ma'am. As a well-brought up person, because in my mind I was like, Child.
SPEAKER_00I think it's it's people understanding that times times have changed.
SPEAKER_04I don't think, and I maybe it's a Nigerian thing or it's a cultural thing. I don't think I have to kiss your ass to succeed. If I know what I'm doing and I'm hardworking, I'm smart, yes, why should I have to come and kiss your ring?
SPEAKER_00You don't.
SPEAKER_04So I love that. I don't know if it's social media that has decentralized everything. Yes. It's like, you know what, screw you. I'm gonna make it on my own and with God. Yes. This it was the same person twice. So I was just like, ah.
SPEAKER_00I think one thing I love about the new generation is how, yes, when I talk about them, a lot of they don't do this, but let me be honest with you, they're guts. Like, if you don't give it to me, if you don't, if you don't let me on this table, I'm gonna build my own table. I love that for them. I love that. I'll be very honest with you because for my own generation, I know how hard we had to work, and like you said, support to people. Because they, and with the help of like media and all of that, one person can do something to an tomorrow, boom.
SPEAKER_04I just think it's wild. So now let's talk about the gatekeeping in the fashion industry. Um, about apart from you know the designers and stuff, I also feel like there's a bit of we're all shouting, let's collaborate, let's collaborate, let's collaborate. But there have been times that I've reached out to collaborate. And, you know, and this, and I wonder what happens to people who are not known or they're just starting out or they're not popular, quote unquote, because of my media work. I am, you know, a phone call away from a lot of people, a DM away from a lot of people. I am not, I'm learning how to not be shy to reach out to people. So last year, for example, I shot, I decided to create this fashion series where I would go to people's stores and this and that. And at first I didn't know what it would be, but when I saw the demand for it, I did a few videos and people really liked it. And I was like, okay, let me just continue. So I would reach out to brands. Many of them were like, Oh, yeah, sure. Some were like, Oh, we don't have some stuff right now, let's get back to you. And then there were some that will actually read it and ignore. You know, Instagram will show you if they've read it, unless that sort of thing. Or they'll say, Oh, yeah, wonderful, wonderful. Yeah, okay, my team will contact you, and then say, Oh, please email my team and copy me. And then I will do so, and then the team is doing me random. And I'm just like, are you serious? You know, it's if if you are not available to do the something, it's like some people who are like, ah, oh my, there's a lot going on right now. It's made to order, so give me some time and we'll talk about it. Or some people will be like, oh, um, honestly, I'm taking a break. People are like, oh, I'm taking a break, or some people will be like, oh, um, we don't have new stuff right now. I'm waiting for my fabric, that's that sort of thing. Yeah. But to one, ignore, or two, say, you can always say, This is not a good time. I know how it is. I respect that so much. If this is not a good time, it's fine, that's fine. But to dribble the person or to leave me on red, and it's not just with you know, shooting content, it's even with because I have a shoeline, I understand how it works, it's expensive. So maybe I reach out to a few influencers and say, yo, please, oh, I know that you charge for this, but if you like it, can I send it to you? Feel free. There's no, even if it's on your stories, just help me tag. And some will say, Yeah, okay. And I'm like, okay, please send me your address so I can send it to you. Maybe they will answer me next year. So I'm just like, what is this gate? Like, I feel like it's a form of gatekeeping, it's a form of this is our industry. Why are you here? Sort of, you know, you know.
SPEAKER_00There's there's a brand I particularly love, and I'll tell you what he does. I think it's also because he has an eye for like photography and how he presents his work. It's um his um ZAR studios.
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_00How he would present his work, whether you hardly have I even ever seen his garments on any influenza, but how he just shoots it and presents it, there is no way you would not like it. And I think one thing I love about the particular brand is how it's been able to stand on its own. I think it's one thing I feel that when you let people know, yes, I came to you, I mean, I came to collaborate with you and you didn't find it decent to tell me, oh, we're so sorry, it's not a good time, or really busy at the moment, or I can't take this collaboration. You go ahead and do it by yourself.
SPEAKER_04Oh no, uh before. Is that not why we're here today? Do you understand? Because I was just like, it's okay.
SPEAKER_00And it's what we talked about communication with fashion people in general. Yeah, sometimes it's not a place, it's sometimes it's how they want to tell. Maybe they respect you, they like you so much, it's so hard for them to tell you no.
SPEAKER_04Even if you don't like me, it's fine. Obviously, you might not say, Yes, I don't like, but just say, Oh, this is not a good time. But you tell me, oh, talk, talk to Lola, my assistant. She's she's gonna make sure everything happens. Everything happens. And Lola is saying, uh, please may I call you back. You they are giving you the runaround, and I think it's indecent. Yes, I think it's cowardly, and people really need to do better when it comes to communicating. You know, I just feel like you want if you are if you want your industry to be bigger, be open to collaboration. You can't collaborate with everybody, of course. Like um, Kiki said of Defens, it's not everyone that you aligned with. Yes, that's fine, you know, but at least give uh you know, give some sort of yes, um, uh response. It communicates, oh, this is not right now, it's not working, or we don't have the stock, or something like that. But okay, let's bring this to a close because there's so much to talk about. What needs to change for the Nigerian fashion industry to be taking more seriously globally? Globally, there's a lot of focus and attention now. I don't know if you know, especially in 2025. Yes, give you an example, AMVCA. The number of people that were not Nigerian talking about the fashion, it was talking about the looks, it was wild, breaking down events now. It's not just AMC, it started with AMVCA last year, and then now it's so many different. I know it's happening again. So, what do you think? Apart from oh wow, beautiful um, as as was her name said, Aretha Franklin, beautiful beautiful girls, wonderful girls. How are we supposed to be taking or what would you say we should do to be taken seriously globally?
SPEAKER_00To be taken seriously globally, um on the part of the designers, it would be to build a very unique DNA that is synonymous to your brand. So, say for instance, if I saw a schiaparelli on the red carpet, you would know, I would know that's a schaparelli. If I see a scaparelli copy, I know that's a schipperelli copy. If I see a com de garçon on the red carpet, I know that's a com de graçon. If I see Marquesa on the red carpet, I know that's a Marquesa. I feel a lot of Nigerian designers, because Pinterest is like the fastest route to sort of use in building things. We've sort of moved away from looking at abstract images. Like I've been looking at this as well to see what can happen with this. We need to find a way to build a designer's DNA in such a way that we know you're creating an original, even if you're grabbing the inspo from the most abstract, mundane thing in the world. Which is why on the red carpet can say, That's kept early. That is this, that is a Marni. That is, yes. But in a case where I've seen people do Gura of Gupta, that the whole graph, the whole spike, I've seen tons of people do it. And it's because it's a very interesting technique. But we all know gura sort of popular, right? The design itself has moved away from that aesthetic. You want people to be able to know you. You want, even globally, you don't want them referencing you to say, well, this particular person copied this particular person. It's important for the designers to build a DNA that would be synonymous to them for a lifetime. So if I saw Idiola today, I knew Idiola. I knew. I would know Idiola today.
SPEAKER_04Like how she's created that Kumale thing. Yes. When you see it, she she inspired when you see it, you know this is this is, you know, Kumale by, you know, Diola safe.
SPEAKER_00Very different.
SPEAKER_04Only God knows how much it is now. Because I remember when I was getting married, it was like three million naira.
SPEAKER_00Very different. Eight years ago. Very different. If I saw a Vicky, if I see a tubo, like I know she has sort of mastered the whole cossetry thing. If I see a tubo dress, I know this is Tubbo. And that's why I said it is very, very important. Or if I say wisdom, frankly, I know this is a wisdom.
SPEAKER_04It is very important for the designers to build their DNA into their brands, into their aesthetic in such a way that if we want that global attention, not them saying, Oh, um, this Nigerian designer copied, or I'm looking, or I'm doing my reviews, and I'm like, what in the you do these reviews of their stories during AMVCAs where you see that someone has copied, so you take a picture, you're wicked. You take a picture of where they copied and be like, hmm. So for example, if they copied from like a uh I don't know, give you an ex somebody, so you'll be like, hmm, uh scared really. You do stuff like that, and I'm just like, yikes. You you call them out steady every year. Yes, and I'm sure people have come at you like oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so for instance, if I call out a celebrity, you find out that their fans are after they come into my DM, some will curse me out, some will tell me, Did I see? I will beat you up.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, like real dragging and all of that.
SPEAKER_00But the truth is, it's not from a place of even like just entertaining people, but one, letting people, if you're a stylist, you should know all these things. I'm not saying know everything, but you should be very familiar with well, I've seen this somewhere. This silhouette, I've seen this, I've seen this design somewhere. Thank you very much. It is very, very important, but also to also let designers know that we're watching you. It puts you on your toes to say, okay, you know what? This is who I am as a designer, this is where I stand as a designer, and I'm sticking to it. If I say I need to embassy, I know this is easy to embassy. I don't need anyone to tell me. If I say Marzel Studio, I know this is Mazel Studio.
SPEAKER_04How does this work for ready-to-wear or fast fashion brands, though, for instance? I know that it's difficult because a lot of fast fashion brands are very what is trendy. For example, now mesh no boobs, mesh dresses, you know, with the floral prints.
SPEAKER_00So how they need to find a way to you have to find a very interesting way to tell your stories. So if you look at Phoebe Philo when she was a Celine, and you look at the new Celine, there are two different things. But if you look at Phoebe Philo when she was at Celine, and you're looking at the likes of Ferregamo, you're looking at the likes of Botega, the aesthetic is pretty similar, but they are different. Okay. And even if you look at Phoebe Philo when she was at Celine, and Phoebe Philo as a brand herself, you can see the references, but they're not the same. So it is very important that even if you're doing ready-to-wear, you find your voice.
SPEAKER_04Bringing it home. Adrian Emo Stafiri used to work at or design for Tiffany Amber. Exactly. And then when she eventually started to do her own thing, she also you can see an Adrian Emo Stafiri garment, and you know, if you know fashion or if you're familiar with, you know, you would know, okay, that's agero. Yes. Because there's a way her stuff just flows. Yes, it's very fluid, very feminine. Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_00It's yes, it's almost even the same thing with this guy, too. So, um, what's his name? He's my favorite designer, Galeano. Okay. When Galeano was at Dior and when he moved to Magella, you would literally see those references, but they're not the same thing. And that's what I also feel that we're ready to wear. The references are everywhere. Everyone is doing a mess dress. But what makes your mess dress stand out? How is yours different? How is yours different?
SPEAKER_03Okay.
SPEAKER_00How is yours cut? What is the texture? I mean, what's the quality of the texture of your fabric? All of those little little things here and there are things that would really help you. It's important to be original. Be original. Find your voice, own it. You would always find people who would consume what you put out there.
SPEAKER_04I think this is a perfect place to end. Thank you so much, Mr. Tosi from Ibrahim. Yeah, I had to say it. Thank you very much. It's been fantastic uh talking to you. Thank you for being honest.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me. Thank you.
SPEAKER_04Uh I didn't put you in any trouble now, did I?
SPEAKER_00No, no, no.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, you ask you. I'm sure you were like, this baby. As usual, we're giving away a gift voucher for you to shop at a particular Nigerian designer. Not gonna mention who, but all you have to do is basically download the Credit Direct app, follow them, follow us, showproof via DMs. Just send us a DM at the fashion roundtable on Instagram, and you could be the lucky winner this week. I think it's important that we have these conversations to tell the truth. Yes. Um, we're not just playing here when it comes to Nigerian fashion. There are people who are building empires, yes, who are doing well, and not everybody has to be a designer, there's stylists, there's creative directors, there's so many curators. Thank you, illustrators. Thank you. There's so many different, you know, aspects that you can find to work, you know. And I I just love it that you know you've been able to open our eyes to so many, and this is the reason why I I was chasing you that you must come here. Thank you because there's so many things that you do. Yes, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_04This episode was brought to you by Credit Direct.