99 - The Philemon Story | From Addiction to Redemption with Jared Pace

In this episode of The Good Gift Podcast, Jared Pace — Director of True Rock Property Management, devoted father, and brother in Christ — shares a story that mirrors the heart of the book of Philemon.

Before following Christ, Jared was trapped in drug addiction and theft, living a life marked by broken trust and damaged relationships. For years, he tried to change himself. He couldn’t.

What ultimately changed everything wasn’t self-discipline or self-improvement — it was coming face to face with the patience, truth, and grace of Christ.

Over five years sober today, Jared opens up about the moment he realized he could not make himself better — and the powerful reconciliation with the person he stole from that God used to lead him to genuine repentance and faith.

This is a conversation about addiction, humility, fatherhood, reconciliation, and the kind of grace that restores what seemed permanently broken.

If you’ve ever believed you were too far gone, this story says otherwise.

Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved. 

Transcript

Pete 0:00

What's up everybody? This is Peter Benes here with Jared Pace, and we're going to be doing a little talk about the book of Philemon today, and our story of how we use that in practical application. It's a great story between Jared and I, and we just wanted to share. So we're going to start with a little bit of information about the book. It's one of the shortest books of the Bible, only 25 verses that the Apostle Paul wrote. He's writing this from prison. Most scholars believe this

Setting Up Philemon’s Context

Pete 0:32

was from house arrest. We see in Acts that he was at in house arrest for a couple years, so this wasn't the dungeon prison, most likely, but it still was under house arrest. The problem in this book was that Onisimus, Philemon's slave, had ran away and wronged him in some way. We're not really sure exactly what happened there. Some believe Onisimus stole from Philemon, but we're just not quite sure. Paul is appealing to Philemon on the basis of love, you know, to try to get Philemon to receive him back as a brother, not a slave. The hardest you hear is that the gospel transforms relationships, not just personal beliefs. His goal is voluntary obedience that flows from true faith, not lip service. And the big takeaway here is that true Christianity is proven by forgiveness, reconciliation, and change relationships. True grace changes desires and will produce fruit, also known as action. Cheap grace is something that removes guilt without producing repentance. I think we're seeing a lot of that now in our society. So we're going to read this short book. I'm going to turn it over to Jared Paste, our guest. Jared Pace, our guest, and he's going to read this short book, and then we're going to tell a little story about how we met, a short little intro of our testimonies, and just hope you guys enjoy. Take it away, Jared.

Jared 2:01

Okay, so here's the book of Philemon. This is going to be the NLT version. Starting in verse 1. This letter is from Paul, a prisoner for preaching the good news about Christ Jesus, and from our brother Timothy. I'm writing to Philemon, our b our beloved co-worker, and to our sister Apipha.

Pete 2:25

We may or may not get these pronunciations right, but we're normal. There we go. Average judges, not scholars.

Jared 2:33

And to our fellow

Reading Philemon Aloud

Jared 2:34

soldier Archpus and to the church that meets in your house, may God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ give you grace and peace. I always thank my God when I pray for you, Philemon, because I keep hearing about your faith in the Lord Jesus and your love for all of God's people, and I am praying that you will put into action the generosity that comes from your faith as you understand and experience all the good things we have in Christ. Your love has given me much joy and comfort, my brother, for your kindness has often refreshed the hearts of God's people. That is why I am boldly asking a favor of you. I could demand it in the name of Christ because it is the right thing for you to do, but because of our love, I prefer simply to ask you. Consider this a request from me, Paul, an old man now, also a prisoner for the sake of Christ Jesus. I appeal to you to show kindness to my child Onisimus. I became his father in the faith while here in prison. Onisimus hasn't been of much use to you in the past, but now he is very useful to both of us. I am sending him back to you, and with him comes my own heart. I wanted to keep him here with me while while I am in these chains for preaching the good news, and he would have helped me on your behalf. But I didn't want to do anything without your consent. I wanted you to help because you were willing, not because you were forced. It seems you lost Omnisimus for a little while, so that you could have him back forever. He is no longer like a slave to you, he is more than a slave, for he is a beloved brother, especially to me. Now he will mean much more to you, both as a man and as a brother in the Lord. So if you consider me your partner, welcome him as you would welcome me. If he has wronged you in any way or owes you anything, charge it to me. I Paul, write this with my own hand, I will repay it, and I won't mention that you owe me for your very soul. Yes, my brother, please do this, or please do me this favor for the Lord's sake. Give me this encouragement in Christ. I am confident as I write this letter to you, or that you will do what I ask and even more. One more thing, please prepare a guest room for me, for I am hoping that God will answer your prayers and let me return to you soon. Epiph Epaphrus, my fellow prisoner in Christ Jesus, sends you his greetings. So do Mark, Aristarchus, Demas, and Luke, my co-workers. May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit.

Pete 5:24

Alright, so that's the book of Philemon. I want to point out here what Paul was doing was pretty controversial and even to this day makes people wonder. He's sending back a runaway slave to this slave owner. The penalty during that time would have could have been very severe beatings. I mean, it was a very risky thing to do, but it was the right thing to do, and that's kind of what you're going to see in our story today. It's hard to talk about this book and not mention it's impossible, I guess you could say, to not mention slavery. And what we have in our head

Slavery Context And Gospel Lens

Pete 6:00

today in in America about slavery is is, of course, from the MLK days. That's unfortunate that we have only that because slavery back then was much different, although it had some similarities in certain cases. I just want to point out that there was different types of slaves during that time. Some were kidnapped, some were born a slave, there were prisoners of war, some were in prison, even for doing wrong things, were that was a slave. And then some were volunteer slaves, more like a job or something like that we see today. So it was much different, and there's much to talk about there. We have done a deep dive on this. We may even do an episode on this at some point, but anybody out there that would like to get some more information on that, be happy to share some some pretty detailed notes on slavery in the Bible and and how that looks and what what God says about that. I think one of the key verses to remember here is that Paul wrote the book of Philemon, he also wrote the book of Galatians, and here's what the same man said in Galatians 3, 27 through 29. For as many of you have been baptized into Christ, have put on Christ like a garment. There is no Jew or Greek, slave or free, male or female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. And if you belong to Christ, then you're Abraham's seed, heirs according to the promise. So we see Paul and where he was with slavery, and we see that God's not okay with poor treatment of other men or women born and made in his image. So that's just something to point out here with slavery, and and we really want to pound in the gospel message from Paul here. It's his only book that he doesn't actually mention the death, burial, and resurrection, but he actually shows us what that looks like in action. A few treasures we found in this short little book. Verse 2, it says that the church meets in your home. Of course, we know in the early church for the first couple hundred years, that's how Christians met. It was in personal homes. We didn't have big buildings, we didn't have overhead staff, none of that was there. It was much more relational, like we see in Acts, and just easier to understand each other and take care of each other. In verse 4, we see make mention of you in my prayers. This has

Practical Treasures In Philemon

Pete 8:23

really helped me out, and I think would help you out in your prayer life. Prayer can be intimidating sometimes, even to this day. It's it's one of my things I struggle in a little bit, and I feel like I need to do more. But just mentioning names, oftentimes when I wake up or throughout the day, names are just cycling through my head of my brothers and sisters or people that we're trying to share the gospel with, and it appears that that's what the apostle Paul did as well. He makes this comment in other books too, but making mention of you in my prayers, I think that's a really cool practical application that you can use in your prayer life. And then verse 15, perhaps this was why he was separated you for a while. Paul doesn't know exactly how God's working here, and he acknowledges that in this book. It's oftentimes that we don't know how God works, but that's okay. His ways are higher, his thoughts are higher. We have to trust in his promises and trust that he knows what's best for us and for others. And if we simply obey, I believe he blesses that. We're gonna jump into the book now and how Jared and I used it. So we're gonna start with a little bit of my testimony. In the book of Acts, Paul tells his testimony three times. First of all, testimony, that's a word that I think gets thrown around all the time, and people don't know what that is. Basically, it's our story. It's our story in in in Christ, in Jesus. And it's still going, so I'm gonna tell you just a short little part of mine and and Jared's gonna get into his, but I heard just recently you don't have a testimony without a

Pete’s Testimony

Pete 9:59

test, and I thought that was a great way to put it. We've had lots of tests, and we continue to have tests from from God, the world, and and others, and we've got to continue to keep our eyes on Christ to pass those tests. So mine starts growing up as a quote Christian. I would have called myself a Christian, I would have occasionally went to church, maybe prayed before a meal every now and then, rarely read my Bible, maybe opened it when I I didn't even have a Bible that I can remember, but I would pick one up or have one when I went to church on Sundays. Attended multiple churches with family, my dad, my mom, my grandpa, just multiple denominations and non-denominations growing up, and didn't really live it. Actually didn't live it at all. Just said it. Just used my mouth and not my feet. And I really resonated when I started studying scripture with this passage in Luke. It's Luke 13, 23 through 28. Someone asked him, Lord, are only a few people going to be saved? He said to them, Make every effort to enter through the narrow gate, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to. Once the owner of the house gets up and closes the door, you will stand outside knocking and pleading, Sir, open the door for us. But he will answer, I don't know you or where you come from. Then you will say, We ate and drank with you, you taught in our streets. But he will reply, I don't know you or where you come from. Away from me, you evildoers. There will be weeping there and gnashing of teeth when you see Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, but you yourselves thrown out. This is the Lord Jesus speaking here, and on that last day many will say this, I believe fully, up until I was thirty three years old, I was part of this many that would have said, We ate and drank with you, and you taught in our streets. That sounds a lot like going to church on Sunday, maybe going to a Bible study, going to church on Wednesday, saying your prayer before your meal, reading your Bible occasionally. These are people who were convinced that they were Christians, but they weren't. Very scary language. We also see this in Matthew 7 as well. Many will say to me on the last day, This was me, this is part of my story, and God revealed this to me. Second Corinthians 13 5 says, Examine yourselves to see whether you're in the faith, test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you unless, of course, you fail the test. When I joined a Bible study back in twenty fifteen, I was fearful as I got into the book. Philippians says, Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed, not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence, continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling, for it is God who works in you to will and to act in order to fulfill his good purpose. The more I got into the Bible, the more I feared my salvation. I'm not saying that's right, that's just where I was. I remember verbalizing that to my group because I saw the difference between someone who's saying they are and someone who actually is, the way the Bible describes. So as I sought God for this answer, and as I examined myself, I prayed and I asked, Am I saved? And God revealed this, I'm not gonna I don't know how long this was, but it was it was several months before I I just I just kept getting this answer that and he showed me when I was and where I was when this happened. It was back at a Christian camp that I had taken my family, and that's when I came to true faith in Christ. That's when I started following. Was it fast? No, not at all. But I changed. Uh my desires changed. I I began to read the Bible, I began to open it and looking at it every day. It started speaking to me, started changing me up, and as I got into it, I started doing more for him and less for the enemy. I started moving from sin to righteousness, still having sin, still cutting sin, but still reaching for what he says, because what he says is best. The memory verse that week at that camp was James 4 10. Humble yourselves before the Lord and He will lift you up. I was full of pride. Pride and arrogance were were my drug, and that's what he began to work on first. So that's a little bit of my story. Now I'm gonna let Jared kind of kind of start you off, and we're gonna jump over back into how we use the book of Philemon and how we met.

Jared 14:45

Okay, so my s my testimony and story are similar in ways to what Pete described, but different in ways too. So I didn't really grow up in church. My mom would take me and my brother occasionally that I remember, you know, we we did have a church that we went to, and I remember being baptized as a kid. I went to Falls Creek a couple times, I think. But I'd I really if you'd asked me, you know, are are you a Christian? The answer was always

Jared’s Early Faith And Drift

Jared 15:17

a default yes. And as I grew older, you know, and even even as a kid, I mean, I just I really didn't even know what it truly meant. I I didn't grasp what that truly was or what it looked like to follow. I didn't really have anybody completely teach me really anything about the Bible. You know, I had no knowledge of scripture or anything like that, but I believed, or I thought I believed that there was a God. I just didn't understand who he was or what that really meant. It's just a guy in the clouds, honestly, to just put it bluntly. As I grew up and and kind of went my own way, I I didn't really have anything in my life that reflected what I know now to be true faith or anything like that. So I'm gonna share some verses that kind of match up with a little bit of my testimony. Mark 7, 6, he replied, Isaiah was right when he prophesied about you, hypocrites, as it is written, these people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. That just kind of describes me to a T. I would always honor God with my lips, but there wasn't anything about my heart that reflected Christ or a love for him or a desire for him. So next verse is John 8 34. Jesus replied, Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin. You'll hear through this story how that is very applicable to my life growing up and all the way until I truly met Jesus. We're gonna jump up to Ephesians 4 28 first. Anyone who's been stealing must steal no longer, but must work doing something useful with their with their own hands that they may have something to share with those in need. That's very applicable to this story as well. I was a thief, among many other flaws and sins that I pursued and had. So then Acts three nineteen, repent then and turn to God so that your sins may be wiped out, the times of refreshing may come from the Lord. Matthew five twenty-three and twenty-four. Therefore, if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother or sister has something against you, leave your gift there in front of the altar, first go and be reconciled to them, then come and offer your gift. So here's the start of our story, and we'll we'll progress through it as we go. So growing up, I I had a good childhood, I would say. My mom and dad did split when I was fairly young. I think I was around eight or nine years old when that happened. But, you know, all through school and stuff, I always excelled. I was even in advanced classes and things like that, and you know, God bless me with being what I would consider smart, good head on my shoulders, and had loving parents. But, you know, I had some things happen through my childhood that kind of put the trajectory of my life on a on a little bit of an off path. And whenever I got into high school, I was playing baseball and doing all the things that, you know, seemed right. And like I said, you know, it I wasn't ever doing really bad at school or anything, but I just I started using drugs and alcohol to cope with some things and and deal with deal with life. And I really didn't understand at that time what it what it would turn into, but you know, it started out with just smoking weed and and drinking and you know and doing things like that, and and it just slowly progressed, you know, as as life went on, and I became dependent on basically any and all substances that I could get my hands on that would change the way that I felt or help me get out of myself. You know, I just I didn't ever feel comfortable with myself. I didn't ever feel okay. You know, I would I would just basically medicate or self-medicate to where to the point where I would I would just feel different, you know. I always wanted to feel different. Wasn't ever okay with just being myself or feeling like myself. So as I got through all of that, you know, and and in high school, I I ended up trying to go to college for a little while. And it, you know, my drug addiction just kind of progressed through the normal avenues that you see people, you know, go from one thing to the next, to the next, to the next. And I always had lines, I would say, drawn in the sand, like, well, yeah, I'm doing this, but I'll never cross that line. And as tiptoed up to those lines and crossed each one of them, it just became this thing that, you know, it didn't really matter to me anymore what the line was, what the drug was, what the choice

Addiction Deepens

Jared 19:56

was. They just they just started trending in a in a negative direction, and and my life just kind of went down that path. So the story really starts where I I was working for a uh small business in Ada, uh, Oklahoma, and there there came a point in time at that at that place where you know I was on I was on meth and pills and some different things and what started out as as such a you know good endeavor at one point in time, but then I do I even talk about the stealing at this point in time? Like that's it, this is throwing me off, man. Okay, so now I'm gonna share some of my testimony and some applicable verses that kind of go with that. Dude, this is this is throwing me off, man. I think it's trying to think of my testimony rather than just say it, you know? Okay, so yeah. Much of my testimony is kind of the same, or a little bit of it anyways, where I grew up thinking I was a Christian, went to church every now and then with my with my mom and my brother. Didn't necessarily grow up in church, but was baptized when I was younger and under, I mean, understood to a limited, limited perspective who God was or who I thought he was. Dude, I can't, man. Something's off. It's like my brain is and I'm not gonna blame it on fatigue because I drank an energy drink and I feel fine. I'm tired, but I'm not like that tired. I just got it.

Pete 22:04

That's right. We're just asking for some wisdom here. We just want this is for you. We want this to bring glory to you. We want this to bring people to you. Encourage people. Confront people. Just share your word with as many as we can. And disciple evangelize. Just we're asking for words. We should have prayed before this started. And I don't know why we didn't. But we're asking for words. We're clarity, just a conversation, just the message that we've told this story so many times to give us those words and put the words that you want in our mouths and let them come out in a way that will be clear and easy to understand. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen.

Jared 22:58

Alright, so it really kind of culminates or or comes together and and hypothetically kind of starts at a small business that I was working at in Ada, Oklahoma. What started out as a good thing, I would say, kind of turned into something that I never expected, but it it ties into God's greater plan and the and the story that unfolds behind it. So as I was working at this place and and my drug addiction had reached kind of a pinnacle at that point, or what I thought was the pinnacle at that point. And, you know, I was in good graces with the owner of this company. He trusted me a lot, was very gracious to me and and always very helpful to me. Even talked about scripture with me a few different times. But as as I got in there and and worked for the company, I ended up just starting to take a few things, steal them here and there, you know, just a couple little things to begin with. And by the time it all all came to a head and and got to the end of the road with that company, I was ended up stealing, you know, entire truckloads of of merchandise from this this company. And so really at at that point went south and ended up leaving that place, quitting and and going out to work on my own, work for myself, doing outdoor services stuff, and that's kind of where Pete and I met initially.

Pete 24:26

So I had a close sister that I was worked with in real estate, and she introduced me to Jared and started using him just as a a kind of a lawn of maintenance in property management. Never

First Meeting Through Work

Pete 24:38

had actually even seen his face, just I'd called, talked on the phone a little bit. And we just kind of had that kind of relationship. Basically, he was just doing some yards for us and billing us and we were We were paying him until one day he came into the office and had we had signed him to a job, a house that he we needed him to mow, and he came in to talk to me about that. And wasn't it your mom, I guess, that his mom? Okay. Tell that.

Jared 25:06

Yeah, so at this point in time I had already I had gotten back from my first treatment program that I went to down in Texas. And whenever I got back and and ended up getting this job through this property management company, you know, they were sending me to different places in town just to mow different yards and stuff, and it just so happened that one of the yards they sent me one day was right next door to the one of the houses that I used to get meth from. And in doing that, when I pulled up, I ended up leaving. I called my mom and and said, you know, this is what came up, and she's like, Well, you need to go talk to Pete and tell him, you know, you can't accept that job, but just be honest with him. And I basically said, No way. You know, at that point in time I'd never really been honest with anybody in my life. And so my mom wanted me to be honest with a complete stranger and go basically tell him that I was a drug addict and that I didn't want to take this job because it was next door to the trap house. And so I told her she was crazy, but she ended up talking me into it.

Pete 26:08

Hey, tell everybody what a trap house is, because I don't know that they would want to know.

Jared 26:12

Yeah, so trap house is basically where drugs come in and out of, people consistently come in and out of all the time. It's like a 24, I don't know, it's like a 7-Eleven, I guess, or a love for uh for drugs or illicit that not even drugs, it could be anything. Basically illegal activity in and out consistently. So I ended up taking my mom's advice. I was trying to do things different at this point in time. I wanted to do things different at this point in time, just didn't really know how. So it so I was really just taking

Honesty About A Triggering Job

Jared 26:46

advice from anybody that I trusted and trying to do the right thing. So I ended up going into at that time it was Gray Real Estate's office, told Pete exactly why I couldn't do it, what the circumstances were behind it, and he ended up telling me, sounds great, man. You know, I'm happy you told me. Don't take that job, we'll send you more. And I'm like, what the heck? Okay, you know, it was it was awesome because I I had never experienced anything like that. I kind of figured the stigma around drug addiction and and even me going in and confessing something to somebody I didn't know, I kind of expected to be shunned, let go, not called back. You know, that's just kind of the the MO with most I I don't know. I mean, some people, most people, whatever you want to call it, with how drug addiction is treated and how people are treated that admit to that.

Pete 27:40

So Yeah, and I think in in in my business, I I respect the the no's a lot more than I do the yeses that don't do what they say they're gonna do. And so that was just looking back at this, that was one of the things that really saw something different in him that he was able to come in and look, like he said, a complete stranger in the face and and say no. No's not a bad word. People pleasing is talked about in the Bible, and it's if you're gonna peop please people, you're not pleasing Christ. And so that was a big moment, I think, and it led us down this path of there's something different about this man, and I want to go after him. Shortly after that, I hired him for a personal property in in Asher, and I didn't know at that point he was in active addiction. Now, Jared, tell me like what happened on that job? Did you ever finish that job or what what I'm saying?

Jared 28:30

No. So actually I had unbeknownst to anyone, you know, no one knew except for me at that time that I had I had fallen off shortly after that conversation in Gray's office with Pete that where I actually didn't take the job and I was going over there and you know back and forth, but wasn't really getting anything done. And the problem was is is whenever I fell off, I want to elaborate on that a little bit. So it was I think it was like around the 40 day mark or something like that, that I had been clean

Relapse, Loss, And Rock Bottom

Jared 29:04

and and came back home from my first treatment program, like I said, and and whenever I whenever I picked up for the first time and and got drugs and and was on the right track, you know, I sought them out. I don't I don't want to sugarcoat that and say, oh, it just happened or whatever. I sought them out. I wanted to relapse. I didn't want to relapse, but it was one of those things where I made the act the active decision to pursue that, knowing that there would probably be some consequences, but so when I when I got when I got the drugs and I went home and I was about to do them, there was a very clear, clear thought that went through my head. At that time, my wife was pregnant with what was supposed to be our first child, and I really wanted to do the right thing, but I just didn't really know how. And so as I went to do drugs again for the very first time, I had this, like I said, clear thought just went through my head that like if you choose to do this, you're gonna lose your baby. And as quickly as that thought came, I suppressed that thought, I dismissed that thought, and I did the drugs that were in front of me, which was which was a line of meth. And really, I I feel like that kind of ties into similar similarities with the story of David in the Bible where he he had some consequences because it it wasn't very shortly after that, I think it was within a couple weeks, that we go for our next checkup, and my wife Lindsay were sitting there in the room, and and as they start doing the ultrasound, things just kind of change and the room changes, and and we find out right then that that we lost our baby. So through that experience, I spun off probably the hardest that I ever had, and everything in my head just kept ringing over and over. You did this, you did this. I told you if you chose this that this is what was gonna happen. And so I really took the weight of uh my child, losing my child on my shoulders, and there again, still still no one knew. No one knew that I had fallen off, no one knew that I had relapsed, obviously, no one knew you know the story that I just told about that. But shortly thereafter, though, I ended up confessing to my wife, my family, that I had fallen off and that some something serious needed to change because I was suicidal. I got to the point where I just couldn't, I couldn't do it anymore, and I was psychotic, just just really in a dark, dark place and had gotten worse than I had ever been, you know, due to the circumstances and everything. And so at that point in time, I made the decision to go to Rob's Ranch in Purcell, a place that would, you know, therefore, or after that, end up changing my life, and that decision changed my life. But I I called actually Pete, and I had told him at that point in time, like, hey, I just want to let you know I'm leaving, you won't be able to send me jobs anymore, but I'm gonna come back stronger than ever, I'm gonna be better than ever, I'm gonna get off these drugs, I'm gonna do the right thing. And if you'll notice how many times I say I right there, just I, I, I, I over and over and over, me, me, me, you know. And to be honest, Pete and I's relationships was very superficial at this point. I barely knew him, he barely knew me. We just had a little bit of interaction, like we've talked about. And he on the phone that day, he says, You're gonna fail. And it the phone might as well have cut out because I was like, What? I I don't think I heard you correctly of what I was just telling you I was doing. What what what did you say? He's like, You're gonna fail because you didn't mention Jesus and you think you're gonna do it on your own and you're not. He said, You you're gonna fail, you won't, you won't succeed because you didn't mention Jesus and you're gonna try to do it on your own, and you're gonna have the same, the same basically, circumstances that happened this time are gonna happen again. And that really ticked me off. I I thought, who is this guy?

“You’ll Fail Without Jesus”

Jared 33:21

You know, who who is he to tell me that I'm gonna fail and that I'm not gonna succeed? And I just kind of blew it off and and you know, thought, well, thanks. I appreciate it. You know, I'll maybe I'll see you when I get back. And so I ended up leaving. I went to Rob's ranch, and then it kind of picks back up with Pete.

Pete 33:39

So Yeah, I just want to say to that too. I mean, teach a couple classes at recovery, drug and alcohol recovery centers, and I always try to let the guys know there that, you know, if if sobriety is your number one goal and that's what you're keeping your eyes on, just like I told Jared, I think you're gonna fail. That's not the number one goal, that's a symptom of a bigger problem. And if you can't keep your eyes on Jesus, then none of this is gonna work, whether it's anger or it's greed, or it's drugs and alcohol, whatever your sin or sin struggle is, we've got to keep our eyes on the perfecter of our faith. And that's what I was trying to get across to Jared there. And yeah, it was an uncomfortable conversation, but I think we're gonna see some fruit later. So after he went up to treatment, I just just I guess just felt prompted to to I got his wife's number and went ahead and sent her a payment for the job uh that he didn't complete over in Asher that we talked about and started kind of just checking up on him and seeing how things were going. I think uh that was another little odd thing in in in his story that he didn't quite understand. I think weren't you kind of suspicious a little bit of why I was calling or what was going on?

Jared 34:50

Yeah, so I had actually been checking in with my wife, you know, obviously every chance that I could get

Checking In And Unmerited Kindness

Jared 34:56

and and I left on bad terms with some not so good people. A couple different things had happened before I left, and so I'm I'm consistently asking her, like, has anybody came by the house? You know, you check on the cameras, she's like, Yeah, nobody's here, you know, or nobody's came by. And that kind of stumped me. Even the fact that, you know, that you know, she she had my phone and you know, nobody, nobody was calling me or you know, checking in or anything like that. But I just remember thinking, you know, every time I would talk to her, just about every other time, she'd say, Hey, you know, that that Pete guy texted and asked how you were doing, and like, what the heck, man? I don't, you know, like, okay. Well then she one time we talked and she's like, hey, he sent $500 for that job that you did. And I'm like, don't accept that money. Like, send that money back. He like I did not do that job. I butchered that job. Like, of course, I went over there a couple times, but I I in no way completed that job. So I'm like, don't take that money from him. You know, what does this guy want? Why, you know, why is he doing this? And I just could not wrap my head around, you know, and it was multiple times when I was in treatment that she would say, you know, always he checked up on you again and just, you know, praying for you and asking how you're doing. And I did not understand at that point in time, like grace or love or anything like that. So it it really threw me for a loop and I was very cautious, very cautious and very standoffish against that. But I ended up getting through treatment. Lindsay and I decided, you know, I really wasn't ready to come home after that yet. It was a hard decision for us, but I ended up moving into sober living in Purcell. And through that, I was given a job at a car dealership in Paul's Valley and started selling cars. So everything that I was taught through treatment was basically do the opposite of everything that you've ever done, be honest, be transparent, do the right thing, even even when it doesn't, you know, feel good and and all

Sober Living And Car Sales Dilemma

Jared 36:59

these things. And as I start selling cars, man, I'm good at it. You know, I'm making a lot of money. It it kind of came easy to me. I've always been able to talk, and and sales is not something that you know I struggled with, and I really I really was doing great. So through that, I remember just many times over just thinking like this isn't right, I don't feel good about it, I'm having to lie, deceive, you know, it just it just feels like exactly all the things that I don't want to be anymore, and then I've been told that I shouldn't be anymore. So one night I ended up talking to my wife, Lindsay, and I said, you know, at this point, I really don't care what I have to do. I'm ready to come home. This is not good for my sobriety, this is not good for my walk to try to keep doing this. And and of course, she was a little bit taken back. She's like, you know, you haven't made good money in a long time. And and I was finally bringing home some money, but she agreed, and you know, it was one of those things that it was just time for me to change and and make a change and and stay on the right path, and that was not through the car dealership. So that's what I did. I ended up quitting that place. Didn't really know what I was gonna do, but had a plan. That plan ended up dissolving, which was God's will, I believe.

Pete 38:24

And once he gets back, I invite him to our little Bible study that we have. And Thursday morning Bible study, this is is one of the key moments in my life when I got into study with a group of men back in 2015, and he started coming to that. I think when he stepped in, he had some initial thoughts that were kind of interesting. I'm gonna let you share those.

Jared 38:46

But my first morning in there, I I had never really attended a Bible study, didn't know what to expect. It was a little weird for me. But I walk in and there was a small group of guys in the back of JD's, and you know, they're

Joining A Men’s Bible Study

Jared 39:00

they're talking about the Bible and stuff, and when we get into the study, I'll never forget it because initially, like when we read through the chapter, you know, and and then it kind of takes off into the guys talking and stuff. There was two guys sitting across from me, two close brothers that now, and they just start going off, man, just flipping back and forth. Oh, that reminds me of this, and they're just flipping pages, going from front to back, oh well, this, this, you know, and and in my head I'm thinking, these are those people, man. I've always heard about Bible thumpers, you know, or these weirdos that just you know, and and it's like, these are those guys, uh, you know, and it it was so funny to me because I had never experienced anything like that. And to see these guys just off the cuff, man, like quoting scripture and you know, flipping back and forth, it was just it was wild to me. But it was also intriguing because I thought, holy cow, these guys know this stuff, man. And and you know, obviously I had no idea what they were talking about. It was completely confusing to me, but it was actually one of those things that I look back on fondly now, and I think, man, it's it it was a cool deal walking into that and getting to experience that. And still to this day, I'm part of that group and you know, actually many other ones as well. So it was that was my starting point on Bible studies.

Pete 40:20

So shortly after that, I I had an opening in property management that I needed some help, and he was looking at another job. I didn't have much to offer because it was kind of an entry-level position, and so I called him and it was $13 an hour. I think he was making what several thousand dollars at the dealership that he had left and and had another opportunity at a job that was making quite a bit more than that, too, I think also. And but I just thought I felt led to to offer that out, and he didn't take it immediately, but I think something didn't something fall through that.

Jared 40:53

Yeah, I was actually supposed to get a company truck, it was supposed to be a shoe-in deal. All I had to do was drive to Oklahoma City, and I was gonna get hired on with a heating

Humble Job Offer

Jared 41:02

and air company, which I had done previously in high school with with a previous acquaintance, and I was good at it, and I didn't I didn't mind doing it. Um, but I ended up going up there. The guy that I was supposed to meet with that was supposed to set me up had the family emergency like 15 minutes before I got there. And so when I showed up, I wasn't even supposed to fill out an application or anything, but the little the little young lady at the front was like, Well, just here, put all your information down on this, and so and so will give you a call back. And I'm like, Well, dang, that's that's weird, you know. I was supposed to meet him here, and and so I ended up leaving on my way back. That's when Pete actually called me and he offered me this job, and I'm like, Oh, you know, he asked me if I was moving. I'm like, no, man, I'm gonna get a company truck, I'll just have to drive back and forth to the city every day, but it's gonna be a great deal. Well, when that fell through, or actually it just didn't come to fruition, because what I was praying at that time was like, God, will you just open and close the right doors for me? I'm I'm gonna try my best to listen. Sometimes doors got to be slammed in my face, like break my nose, type of thing, because I try to walk through them. But I just started praying about that a while before that. And so when Pete called and he's like, Well, I've you know, I've got a position, and like he said, $13 an hour, and I'm, you know, I kind of was like, ah no. And especially being an office job, I've never been an indoors type of person. So when he said a computer, I I literally didn't know how to send an email. I had never really typed before, very limited knowledge on even how to operate anything to do with computers or technology. But so ended up coming home, it was about a week later, and again, you know, me and Lindsay are talking, and she's like, Why don't you why don't you do that? You know, just see if it see if it works out because this other deal isn't working out. So I ended up calling Pete back. I accepted that job, and man, it was probably the first month at least that every single day had a pounding, just raging headache when I left, going home, telling Lindsay, I hate this job, I don't want to do this. And she's like, Well, you you need to keep making money, so you're gonna keep doing that job, and we're gonna, you know, we're gonna figure this out. And so I kind of I kind of pushed through it, but it was not my cup of tea. It was not what I definitely had envisioned. And and to be honest, Pete was a little off-putting to me because I had never been around, for one, anybody that was bold in their faith, and and and still ringing in the back of my head was that conversation that we had when we really didn't know each other, that he's like, You're gonna fail, you know. So it was a learning curve, even just to get in relationship with Pete, and and but after I did, you know, I started seeing the love and the you know the the patience that he had with me, and even the even just the checking up on me, man, it just kind of started falling into place. So that was, you know, when I was working there though, I started seeing Christ like behavior, not only In Pete, but in a couple other people in our office. And what I started doing was I would just kind of divulge a little bit of information about my story or you know, different things. And as I did that, I would say, hypothetically, what would you say to somebody if they did this or if they had done

Hinting At A Past Theft

Jared 44:17

this in their past? Or what if this was somebody's story? How would you counsel them to do this or that? And you know, he he would give me, you know, biblical advice, and and so would another brother named Matt that we worked with at that time. And so through that, we just kind of segue into the next part of the story.

Pete 44:35

And so I want to jump back over to Philemon real quick. There's eleven names mentioned in the 25 verses that we know we read the book earlier. Eleven different names. Paul drops uh some as many as 150 names in all his writings as far as showing the relationship. But I think what what really stands out, what you'll see in this story, is how many names of brothers and sisters were part of this story, so that none of us can take credit. God just works that way so often where he puts multiple people in someone's lives to bring them to him so that in our prideful self that we have

Philemon Applied To Confession

Pete 45:10

still that we can't take credit. And and you're gonna see that. And so right around this time, I I was actually discipling another brother, and he had confessed a sin similar to what Jerry was talking about here with with stealing, but it it had came to him, it it came back to him, and this was when he was in active addiction, he'd been out of that for several years at this point, I think, and he just got real convicted that he needed to to do something about this this past sin with a person. And of course, I I didn't really know exactly what to do. That was it was one of those first times I've ever had that come up, and you know, the consequences from confessing this, kind of like the consequences we see in in Philemon, would could have been very severe, prison, you know, that kind of thing. And so I was kind of seeking some counsel on that myself. I called a brother, a close brother from out of town, who I really trusted a lot and I knew might have some wise counsel, and he, as I tell him the story, he said that sounds like Philemon. And I we had looked at Philemon, I I'd read the book and studied the book a little bit, and I just never really put the two and two together. But he pointed me back to Philemon for this other brother. Strangely enough, that never happened, nothing nothing ever that I know of ever happened with that situation. But when that brother confessed that to me and we talked about it, I suggested Philemon. We talked about that book and and even told the the brother that I would go with him or help him confess this to this person. He gets back home. We were on a little working trip, he gets back home and he runs into this person that I I believe God had laid on his heart. And it's just you can't make that stuff up. When when God puts something on your heart and then he throws you in the middle of it right after that, it's like something needs to happen there. It's it's it's really interesting how that works. I think I'm stubborn. There's so many times he's got to tell me something more than once, and it's it's not a good thing. I mean, because delayed obedience is disobedience, and we've got to really strive to listen the first time and and do what he says when when he's pointing us in a certain direction. But so many times is he put in two situations in my path that lead me to truth. And in this case, I think Philemon came from someone else's story, but wound up being for Jared. And so, like you said, he started dropping the hints. I figure out who it is that he's talking about because I've I've been around town since I was two. I mean, I've I've graduated high school and college here, and just have a lot of a lot of relationships and friendships, and I figured out who it was and and basically just kind of said, listen, you've got to go do this, you've got to go confess this. This is a brother in Christ that that you wronged, and you need to lay this out to him and and tell him what you did.

Jared 48:04

And to me, it

The Decision To Make It Right

Jared 48:05

was just one of those things, man, that I never could get that out of my head. I ended up when when Pete figured it out, he he basically said one day, he's like, Hey, what if I told you I knew who you were talking about and I knew what you did, and he just says it, and I'm like, Oh shoot, I said too much. You know, I sh can I take that back, please? But at that point, there wasn't any taking it back. So I can fet or I I commit to I'm gonna do this. You know, I'm I'm a really bad procrastinator, though. I used to be. So he kind of starts pushing me, asking me, you know, well, okay, when when do you think you're gonna do it? You you know, and I and I commit to it, but he finally just says, Listen, man, if you're not gonna do it, I'm going to, because this is still happening and this needs to stop. And so I go home again, talk to my wife, I tell her, you know, what I think, and and she's like, hey, you know, if this is what it's gonna take for us to, you know, stay on the right track, for you to stay on the right track and for us to to move on in our lives and and try to grow from here, then you know, do what you gotta do. And and so that's what we committed to. So at that point in time, when when I was in treatment, I started working out basically every day. It was just something for mental clarity, you know, exercise and things like that. And whenever I came back to Ada, I had had this gym membership that I had, you know, every day it was just like clockwork. That's what I did. I listened to sermons during that time, I listened to worship music, I read my Bible, I would listen to the Bible through through working out, and it was just the my time in the morning to get started on the right track. And so after I committed to this, it was only, I don't know, it might have only been a couple days later, that I'm in the gym by myself, zero other people in there early in the morning, and the person just that business owner just walked right through the doors. And it and it was one of those things where I had been praying for willingness up until that point, like, Lord, just make me willing to do this, help me take this next step. And when I saw him initially, it's like, oh God, no, not right now. You know, this isn't the right

The Gym Encounter

Jared 50:16

time. This, you know, and it's like he said, no, no, no, no, no. You know, you've been praying for willingness, here's your opportunity now, obey. I was like, oh shoot. So I just walk right up to him, you know, I he had no idea of anything that I had ever done. And so when I walk up to him, I'm like, hey, you know, would you would you want to go to lunch with me? He's like, Of course, man. He he greeted me happily before I said anything. He's like, Man, it's good to see you. You know, you look good, you you doing good. I'm like, Yeah, yeah, everything, you know, and you know, like I said, meanwhile, he has no idea the bomb that I'm about to drop on him. But I did, I did at that time just say, you know, would you mind going to lunch with me? He agreed to it. I think we said it for like two or three days later, which that ended up being like the longest two or three days of my life leading up to that meeting. And, you know, it Pete kind of kicks back in at this point.

Pete 51:07

Yeah, so you know, again, looking at Philemon, I I was like, I want to help. I I knew this brother he was going to not super well, but you know, had grown up knowing him and he knew me, and so I thought, you know, I'm gonna take Paul's approach and just try to reach out in advance to let him know what's going on and and hopefully help with whatever happens. So I I wrote the business owner a letter, and I'm gonna read the letter here. I write this with a heavy heart as I advise Jared that biblically he needs to confess his sins to you and make good on the wrong. In saying this, I want you to read the short book of Philemon

Peter’s Letter

Pete 51:43

because this seems to apply very much in this situation. Jared, by his own admission, was very useless to you and me, but now because of Christ, it's just the opposite. Philemon one eleven. Some believe that Onisimus stole from Philemon, but regardless of what happened, he wronged him. Paul and many other believers could see no other way but to send him back and plead for mercy on his behalf. This is what I'm doing for Jared. In a short time I've seen a man being changed by Jesus with his confessions and zeal for accountability and his desire to obey. He has also begun helping in our ministry to reach the homeless and addicts of the street. I knew Jared before he left for Robb's Ranch recovery home. While the zeal was present, it was a very selfish and prideful zeal that thought he could do this on his own. We know this is a pride that God opposes, James four six. While the twelve step program of AA has some great goals, it's not the Bible. The more I've dug into it with Jared and others, the more I see the influence of man. We like every other system of man have tainted what God commands. Of course the Bible tells us that Satan is the ruler of the world from politics to business to AA programs, and I see how true this really is. One of these flaws is how some counsel about confession. They seem to only advise confession of wrongs to others if there are no severe consequences. This leaves a person with poison inside them and does not help them or others. All this to say I am simply asking as a brother to forgive this man and treat him as a brother in Christ. I understand that forgiveness does not mean there will not be no consequences, but I'm asking here that you allow him to pay you back without pressing legal

The Lunch Confession

Pete 53:21

charges. I am willing to personally guarantee the payment of debt owed and will even help if funds are needed. Of course, this is your decision, and he recognized what he deserves here, so he is fully willing to accept what you decide in love. So I sent that and it was right before I didn't really even know if he got it, but it was right before they met, and it turns out he did get it. And so then after that, I guess you guys meet pretty quick, huh?

Jared 53:49

Yeah, yeah. So we ended up sitting down for lunch and and meeting, and I I just sat across from him and confessed everything that I had done, you know, and and basically laid it out for him. On I I'll say this, it was probably not probably, it was one of the hardest conversations I've ever had in my life. You talk about being honest with somebody, it's different whenever you had done what I had done, and you got to sit across from somebody and look them in the eyes and just blindside them basically. And so through that conversation, you know, we both cried, we both shared, and this man is not a is not an easy man to read, I will say. So the whole time, you know, I I'm not sure if he wants to stand up and punch me in the face. I'm not sure, you know, and but but I say this as the as the conversation progressed, I saw him wrestling with what I was saying and and the gravity of what I had done. But also he shared some with me, you know, about his upbringing and about his childhood and some of the things that he had gone through in life. And so as I laid all this out and I ended up telling him about it, you know, I Lindsay and I had also talked about what this looked like for the repercussions of confessing this. She was at that time, at this time, pregnant, you know, which would with who is now our four-year-old daughter, Mailee. And, you know, it's like we both decided she just she just basically said, Hey, you need to go get this done, and and we need to move past this. And and if it means you gotta go away for a little while, that's okay. If it means we gotta, you know, do something and and make some sacrifices here or there, or whatever the financial side of it is, that's okay too. Let's just let's just do this and let's let's honor God and and just be obedient and see what happens. And so through that meeting, I had taken $1,000 cash with me to make a down payment towards what I what I believed that I owed. And and, you know, at the end of it, we ended up walking outside of the restaurant. I tried to give him the money, and he refused it at that time. He said, you know, don't do anything with it, but I'm not gonna accept it right now. I need time to think about this, absorb all this information, pray about this, and then I'm gonna follow up with you and let's let's talk about this again. He said, I do, at the end of that meeting, though, he said, I do want to tell you one thing, and that is I'm not gonna press charges on you. So even just that in and of itself kind of broke me a little bit because it was like a major weight lifted off my shoulders. Like I just had a little bit of peace through that, you know. It was just a a chink in the armor or a crack that you know just helped me tremendously and

Mercy Considered And Follow-Up

Jared 56:40

and lifted that burden a little bit. And also the confession of what I did walking out of that meeting, I don't really know how to describe it other than like an out-of-body experience almost. Like I to do something like that and and to face not only fear but judgment and you know, the unknown, and and to to obey God whenever it was like I have no idea what's about to happen with this. It was super scary for me, but it was one of those things that you know, as I walked out of it, I felt good about it. I I say that, I didn't really know how to feel about it. I wasn't sure if I should feel good about it, if I shouldn't feel good about it. Obviously, there was still guilt and shame that I was carrying from that, but a little bit of that lifted too just by the confession. And so after that, you know, like Pete was saying, we didn't know if if the letter was received, there wasn't a response to it or anything, but then it ended up there was a response, and I'm gonna read through that because he he did end up sending a letter in response to Pete's letter, and that letter is as follows So, hi Pete, hope you're well today. I had lunch with Jared and I think it went well. I was overwhelmed, and since your letter, I've been doing some soul searching myself. I'm not quite sure how to respond other than I'm not gonna press charges. I've been here before. I had a young man approach me years ago offering to pay for what he had stolen, and I felt without a doubt that mercy was the best route, and today he is a godly man with a serving heart. He, however, was not an addict, and I'm not quite sure if that makes a difference in Jared's recovery. He he offered to pay me a thousand dollars today, but I refused. I don't have any idea how much he thinks he owes, but the dollar amount i is not the important part to me.

Total Forgiveness Announced

Jared 58:34

I too want to get this right. What do you think? And so that was the response.

Pete 58:42

And yeah, that that was kind of interesting for me. Uh I you know, I didn't I didn't know if he even got it, but obviously he did, and now he's throwing back to me what I sh what he thinks I should do, and it made me super uncomfortable there because it's not my business and not, you know, really wasn't my decision. But I decided, you know, well, I better answer that question. So I wrote him back and and what I replied back with was he spoke with me a little after your meeting and that you didn't accept the money which bothered him, however, that you wanted to pray and think about it first. I tried to put myself in your shoes and I told him I think that's what I would have done. I am big on forgiveness does not necessarily mean there will be there won't be consequences. In this case, consequences could be legal and or repaying the debt owed. I know his desire is to pay you back, but this is your decision. I can see it both ways. But as far as his recovery, that is not on you. You've already shown Jared a picture of grace, and whatever you decide, I'm with you. If I leaned a certain way, it would be total grace because he will be rocked by that and his pride will not like it. Does that make sense? I think it would also be important for me to know what I could do in my business to safeguard this type of activity. Maybe dig in there a bit and see what happens. Love ya. So that was my response to him, and I think Jared wound up talking to him after that.

Jared 1:00:08

Yeah, so again, it was about the two or three day mark. Oddly enough, there's that kind of coincides with a couple different times in this story, but uh in the gym again, early, early a couple days later, same routine, same everything. And and I don't know if I said this earlier, but like I said, I I had had this routine for a long time, and I had never seen him in the gym before I started praying for willingness and committed initially to confessing this, and then just randomly he starts showing up, right? So there again, in the gym, my daily routine, and he walks in again, and again, there's zero people in there, nobody. I see him about faint, you know. I I feel like just lightheaded, like I'm gonna pass out. He walks right up to me, looks me in my eyes, and says, Hey, I I just want you to know you're completely forgiven, harbor no ill will, no bitterness, no resentment towards you. You owe me nothing, and I want you to move on with your life, and I want you to do the right thing moving forward, and and this is over, so you can you can let this go. And I broke, man. I just became a welled-up ball of tears, just basically fell into his arms. We hugged each other. Both of us cried, but I just could not control my emotions, man. I didn't understand at all, you know, the gravity of what I felt like was just you talk about melting off, like it all fell off at that point, right? Whatever I had still carried with me was gone. And you know, it's it's odd because always tried to figure out, but I could never understand God's grace and Jesus' grace and forgiveness. I just could not wrap my head around it because if you knew who I was and if you knew everything that I had done, there's no way that you could forgive me, right? There's no way Jesus could say, oh no, you know, and so I just never could accept it, I never could understand it. But I'll say this through a couple different people, and really it's more than this, but this is the the major ones for me, was that man and my wife were a

Understanding Grace Through People

Jared 1:02:29

human form embodiment of Jesus' grace and forgiveness. And through both of them, I finally understood because my wife never left me, man, through it all. I mean, and it you just you just can't fathom, you know, the the destruction and and just the pain that's inflicted through addiction on spouses and and families. I mean, even to say, you know, my mom, my dad, my brother, all of them, countless other people too, but and then for for him to forgive me the way he did too, it just it finally clicked. I finally got it. It's like, okay, I had to be shown by a human what full washed grace and forgiveness was, and it was like, this is what it's talking about. This is Jesus, right? And so through that, it really blew the doors open on my faith, on my walk. Really, everything changed after that for me. And I felt, you know, I I I left, I couldn't even finish working out. I think I had just gotten there too. But after that, you know, I just said thank you. I said, I don't know how to accept this right now. It doesn't make sense to me. But what he did say at that time too, he said, I want you to take that money and I want you to donate it. I want you to give it to the homeless shelter and go give it to the the Abbas Table Food Bank down there, you know, that that helps. And and I said, Yes, sir, that's exactly what I'll do. And I said, I I'll also make a commitment, you know, that that for the next two years I'm gonna make monthly payments and and I'm gonna I'm gonna make sure that I that I uphold, and that's the accountability side of it too. I told multiple people what I was gonna do.

Pete 1:04:17

Donation, you made donations to those two places, donations.

Jared 1:04:20

Yeah, yeah, monthly donations to those two places. And and not even that that would come close to paying back what I had taken. That was just something that was on my heart that it's like, man, this isn't, you know, I I'm gonna I'm gonna put this out there to make sure that I get held accountable and to do the right thing here. And so even through that, it it taught me it taught me accountability. And you know, I I don't I no longer do, you know, uh what would be called as like requ it's not it wasn't required, but it was like I set that up. So, but you know, my giving today has just it's it's a blessing to get to give and do those things for for just an open heart, not not out of feeling like I owe it because of a debt that I have to repay or anything like that. I just do it because that's what the Bible instructs us to do, man. And and so it's it's a blessing to get to do that still. So yeah, that that's the that's the forgiveness, the grace, and the and the Jesus part of it that really,

Cautions On Confession And Counsel

Jared 1:05:24

really, really affected my walk and and how I understood Jesus.

Pete 1:05:28

And this is the part of the story where we we want to throw out a little disclaimer here. We've told this story a lot of places, and a lot of times this will generate convictions in other people's lives or stories about certain things that they've done or need to make right. Don't don't just go do this without seeking God in the Bible and prayer and godly counsel. You can see throughout this story that that those three were used, and they're in that order for a reason. I mean, God's Word directs us in in all things. If we're in God's word, we'll know what to pray and how to pray. And then Godly Counsel is third on the list speaking to other brothers. In both of in this Jared's story and also in the first brother story that led me to Philemon, they both got counsel on both sides of this. The first brother we found out actually just recently got counsel to not go talk to that person, and then I told him to. In Jared's story, I told him to, and he got a close brother's counsel to not.

Jared 1:06:26

Yeah, yeah. So that that was basically like Pete said, I I did get counsel first before I got counsel from Pete, and it was from one of my best friends and and you know, a brother in Christ. And but he had he had been to prison multiple times. So his response to me was listen, man, the prisons don't need anybody else in there, and I don't want you to go there. So, you know, I would just keep that to yourself. I wouldn't I wouldn't say anything about that. Looking back on that, you know, that brother loves me, and and seeing what he's been through, he didn't, he he was basically, it was a fear thing because he didn't want me to have to do and experience anything that he had experienced, like going going to jail or prison or doing anything like that. But I'll say this because this is one of the biggest things for me is you can get counsel as many times as you want to from as many people as you want to, but if Jesus and the Bible don't have the final say, it is wrong. And that's just point blank. So Jesus in the Bible and and scripture has the final say regardless of what counsel you get. And if it doesn't align with that, and it doesn't align with scripture, you you need to follow scripture.

Pete 1:07:37

That's yeah, we even see in Acts where Paul was told not to go by a group of Holy Spirit full Christians, and and God had clearly told Paul to go into a dangerous situation. And it's there's a conflict there. It's like, is the Holy Spirit disagreeing with himself? But that's not what's going on there. It doesn't look like to me it basically is the the people were seeing and seeing truth that Paul was going to a dangerous situation to even eventually die. And so they were in the flesh trying to keep him from being hurt physically while God knew that was part of his story and how he was supposed to bring glory to God in his life and his death. And so that's what we really just want to caution you. We're we're happy to talk to anybody out there who who has something similar going on to pray with you about this. You know, we'll be happy to talk to you. You can feel free to reach out. But that's just real important Bible prayer and godly counsel before you go do anything. What happened to Onisimus? So let's go back to Philemon. You know, Paul sent Onisimus back to Philemon, just like Jared went back, and we don't know for sure, but biblically we do know later on in Colossians 4 9, Paul writes this, and with him Onisimus, our faithful and beloved brother, who is one of you. They will tell you everything that has taken place. So it sure looks like Onesimus stayed in the faith, was in the faith, and most likely from

Onesimus’ Likely Restoration

Pete 1:09:03

what I can tell here, Philemon must have welcomed him back, and Onisimus just started going after Jesus, just like Jared has. So that's pretty much our story. Jared, you got anything else that you want to throw in here? I mean, maybe fast forward to today and what's going on in your life.

Jared 1:09:22

Yeah, so today, you know, life looks a lot different. It's been I I've been clean and sober, 100%, zero substances by the grace of God for over five and a half years now. When this story took place, it was about a year into my recovery, and and it was at a crucial point, I feel like, because a lot of times, you know, we're told, well, even even the programs that you go through, the man-made ones, will tell you don't say anything. You know, if it's gonna hurt you or others or anything like that, it's best to just not do that. And and the truth of the matter is, man, I I I don't believe that. I think that I think that that's one of the things that directly changed and and altered the trajectory of my life and my walk with Christ. So I'm super thankful for confession today. I still confess wrongdoings. I believe that that time has gotten shorter and shorter through my walk

Life Today And Lasting Change

Jared 1:10:24

and and through just close brotherhood and things like that. I'm blessed to be surrounded by just a bunch of brothers that, you know, love Jesus, going after Jesus, and aren't afraid to say something and hold each other accountable, confess sin together, pray together, you know, do life together. So through everything that that this story says and through my life, man, I used to think like I would change my life if I could, if I could go back, that I would write it differently, or that you know, I didn't want certain parts of my story to be parts of my story. But the truth of the matter is I was actually talking with my with my brother, my blood brother recently, and I was sharing some of my testimony with him just because of some struggles that he was having and and with his extended family. And I said, you know, man, the the truth of the matter is as hard as it was to make it through some of the stuff that I went through and deal with some of the life that I've dealt with, I wouldn't change a single thing. And I believe that wholeheartedly now because it is my testimony, and God has been so good and so faithful through it all, even though I couldn't see it in some of the storms. So I'm thankful for the trials, I'm thankful for the mistakes, I'm thankful for you know all the things that that God has brought me through and that that even that I went through to get me to God. So just blessed and thankful. I now have a beautiful daughter who's four. I have a 11-month-old son. I think he's actually 11 months today, if I'm not mistaken, could be off on that, but it's close. And so, not to say that there hadn't been trials and things that I've gone through since then. This this life and this walk is full of those. But through through walking with Jesus, it's it's shown me peace through the hardest of circumstances. My wife and I actually lost another baby before we had our son. And to look back and be able to see the goodness in what happened the first time and what happened, you know, the second time is just amazing because although it was a very difficult, challenging time, I had so much peace through it all. And and just having Jesus in my life has been the greatest blessing in my life. So that's all I've got.

Pete 1:12:47

Yeah, I want to point out the guy that couldn't write an email when I first hired him now, still still with my company in property management, and he's now the director of the company, so he's he's we came pretty far. I'm super proud of that. And we always want to point out that you know we're far from where we need to be, and these stories uh it seems like a lot of the stories just you go from bad to good, and then it's all good, but that's not the case. And we both still struggle with sin. We we both have accountability apps on our phone for porn or for

Ongoing Struggle And Accountability

Pete 1:13:19

for anything that that will go to other brothers if we if we slip or s have any any slips there to to help us with that. We want to end this episode with what we do in our groups and is it's called prayer, praise, and confession. And we s we try to just open the floor to prayer, praise, and confession. And so I'm gonna do that with Jared, and I'm gonna do that as well, and we'll we'll close out with that and just hope you guys have enjoyed this so far. I think my prayer, to be honest, we we just are doing these podcasts, we've never done one of these podcasts before, and we started this podcast recording this podcast with out praying, and it didn't go very well, to be honest. But we caught ourselves, we stopped, we prayed, and I think it's since then it's been it's been completely different. I think God has honored that prayer, and so I guess my prayer would be that we pray more, and if we do another one of these and bring another person on, or however that looks, that we be sure to pray and ask God for the words and what he wants because we're doing this for him. My praise is just Jared's story, the continued stories, the church is growing. It may not be growing in certain places that you think it would, but it's definitely growing in the streets and growing in an organic way. I know that

Prayer, Praise, And Confession

Pete 1:14:40

in these last days we we've been in the last days for since Acts, I guess, but that we will see people turning away, we will see people being misled misled, but uh we also will see the true believers coming to Christ. And I'll just praise God for for his movement and the true believers that are repenting and turning to Jesus through this time. Uh my confession, I guess, well I already kind of confessed one with the lack of prayer before this, but also I just think I think recently I was in a group when a young man came in that I didn't know, kind of came in late, sat there for a little bit, and listened, and then kind of left, and I didn't know who he was. I don't think anybody else knew who he was at that point. Kind of felt led to go after him and see, you know, what was going on. I didn't. He came back in, asked like what we were going to be studying next week, and I told him he left again. I still didn't go after him. Very convicted at this point now that I should have. But praise God, I had another brother that jumped up, ran out there, had a great conversation with the young man. There were some tears, just confessing, just really struggling with some things. We've of course got his information, and I think Jerry was even working with him before that. But I guess my confession is I I go we're called to go after the lost, and I was clearly given an opportunity to, and I didn't, and so that was very much a slip. But what's so cool about it is the other brother did, and I think he was even more equipped for the conversation that that happened that day than me, although it was still disobedience on my part, and I just want to want to confess that sin and I have already in groups and and to others, but still struggling with with pride and and what to do and how to do it and what to say and when to say it, and just continue to seek God and stay in his word and prayer and counsel to make sure I try to stay in that center of his will, not just hitting the dartboard, but staying in the bullseye of his will. So, Jared, what do you got on the prayer, praise, and confession?

Jared 1:16:50

Yeah, so prayers I would say right now I feel like in a season of life that I just feel weighed down. And it and it's multifaceted, it's really just all aspects of life. So with my kids, you know, and work and trying to keep up with ministry stuff as well, and then also trying to help carry burdens for other people too, because I've always been the type that kind of seems to take things on from other people and and bear that with them, which I think is good and and biblical, but but it can it can get heavy at times. So I would just ask for prayer for that and and that God would just show me the right way to handle things and keep things in perspective and the right balance of life to keep things moving towards him, and that in these times that I don't move away from him, that I move towards him. Because I've been guilty of that at times too, is like, man, when things get hard, when life hits, when when everything feels out of whack, it's like I don't know why the tendency is go away instead of go to, but I want to run to my father, man. I want to I want to jump up in his lap and find comfort the way that my kids do. The way that my kids do with me. I know that's how it should be, but it doesn't always feel that way. I tend to try to carry it by myself in it, and it just doesn't go well. So thankful for God's grace and and God's help in all these situations, but yeah, so that's that's prayer. Praise would be that, man, even through the hardest times, goodness gracious, it's it God is just so good, even through what I just described. Like I was explaining to somebody just the other day that, like, man, the the weight gets heavy, but the only way that I still stand and the only way that I make it through and keep carrying all this stuff is just because God helps me. God strengthens me, God keeps my knees from buckling, man. We hear a lot and we've heard a lot. The old saying, like, God will never give you more than you can handle. We kind of debunk that and we kind of come against that a lot because we do believe that God will give you more than you can handle. We think that he will do that, and that's actually a blessing because what it does is it shows you that he'll give you more than you can handle, so you have to depend on him to get through it.

Pete 1:19:27

Amen.

Jared 1:19:27

And that's that's a blessing in and of itself. So I pray, I pray that that just continues to grow in me, and the praise would just be that, you know, again, that my life is what it is today by the grace of God, through God and through Jesus. Can't thank him enough for that. So just praise for Jesus. My confession today is I have struggled a lot with anger lately and not controlling my tongue the way that I should. I've got a few, so but that's something that I've worked on some in the past and I've felt like had gotten better, and I've I've seen seasons of growth and seasons of change in that, and I've got to where I'll just close my mouth sometimes whenever I'm angry, and but I haven't been very good at closing my mouth lately, and I just need to be quiet in those times and seek God through those times. So and I'll say this like a longstanding struggle that I have had is lustfulness and everything that comes with that, including pornography. You know, it's it's been so frustrating for me at times to feel like, again, like man, I'm this is going good, this is this is getting better, and the ups and downs of that and and feeling like, man, I'm not sure what the end game looks like, you know. God, I mean, God has completely removed the obsession for drugs and alcohol and substances in my life, and I've seen what can be done through that, and and I've questioned him, like, you know, when is this gonna be that way? When is this gonna feel that way? You know, when are you gonna take this from me, God? And that's a confession in and of itself. But the truth of the matter is, and I want to speak this over that today. Even if he doesn't, and even if it never goes away, God is still good, and God is the only thing that I need to continue trying to push through that. So that's what I've got today. And super thank you. Thanks, Jared.

Pete 1:21:26

I think I'm gonna read with I'm gonna close with a short scripture reading here that just reminded me. Jared mentioned that he wouldn't he wouldn't change his past, although how horrible it was, and and all the struggles and all the problems and the abuse and the things that he had to go through to get where he is today, he wouldn't change it. And and I I just think of Second Corinthians one, starting in verse three, praise be to God the Father, God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that when we can comfort those in trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. For just as we share abundantly in the sufferings of Christ, so also our comfort abounds through Christ. If we are distressed, it is for your comfort and salvation. If we are comforted, it is for your comfort, which produces in you patient endurance of the same sufferings we suffer, and our hope for you is firm, because we know that just as you share in our sufferings, so also you share in our comfort. If you notice how many times the word comfort is used in that verse, we have a God of comfort, and he is there for us, and when we go through these things, just like Jared's doing, he we use them for others to comfort them as well. I'm gonna close us in prayer, and you guys have a great day. God is good. Father God, thank you for this podcast. Just thank you for all you've done in my life and Jared's life, and we just pray that those listening are encouraged by this, but more importantly, that they're brought to a true knowledge of God, that they are growing closer to you if they don't know you, that they surrender their life to you. And we just give you all the praise and glory for everything you've done for humanity, for us and for our families. We want to lift everybody up listening here. We want to lift our families up and just continue to seek you through Bible prayer and counsel in Jesus' name. Amen.