98 - Roughcut to Real Change with Steve Capps

In this episode of The Good Gift Podcast, we sit down with Steve “Snoop” Capps, a man whose life once revolved around addiction, crime, and chaos, and who now walks in freedom through Jesus Christ.

Raised in a broken home surrounded by drugs, violence, and instability, Steve’s story includes years of incarceration, deep addiction, and a life he never thought he’d escape. But through God’s grace, everything began to change. From getting sober in 2018 to rebuilding his family, leading in recovery ministry, and going on mission trips around the world, Steve’s life is a powerful testimony of transformation.

This conversation dives into:

•  The weight of his past and the identity he carried 
•  A moment of reconciliation that changed everything 
•  The difference between believing in Jesus and truly following Him 
•  How God restores relationships, even ones that started with bitterness 
•  Life in recovery, ministry, and walking in daily surrender 

From former enemies to brothers in Christ, this episode is a raw and honest look at what happens when God takes a life that seemed too far gone and makes it new.

If you’ve ever wondered whether real change is possible, this story is for you.

 Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved.  

Transcript

Welcome And Nicknames

SPEAKER_01 0:01

Alright, hello everybody. We're back for another episode of the Good Gift Podcast. We had some good feedback from the last one, and we're gonna try to continue these with just regular old brothers and sisters and their stories and how we met and of course talk about Jesus because we're trying to give him all the glory here. So today I have Steve Caps in the house, and we have known each other for several years. Some years we didn't like each other, and now we're doing mission trips and traveling together and working together and doing all that good stuff. So I'm excited to have him. We are very different people, and that's what's cool about the gospel and bringing people together. So I'm gonna just kind of let him tell a little bit about his story, and then we'll talk about how we met and some of our mission trips, and I don't know, who knows what we'll what we'll get into. We actually I'm not even sure. I'm gonna ask him this because I was thinking about this today. When we call each other, we call each other buttercup. He calls me buttercup and I call him buttercup. And I don't know where that came from.

SPEAKER_03 1:12

Do you know where that came from? I say what's up, buttercup.

SPEAKER_01 1:15

I know, but where Dick man, I don't know. I picked up on that. And uh I said, two grown men call each other buttercups. I mean, some people might think that's a little odd, but I don't even know where it came from.

SPEAKER_04 1:24

Yeah, I say what's up, buttercup. I say it a lot, actually. So you say that to multiple? I'll say that to multiple. Okay, so it's I'm not special. I was thinking I was special there for a second. That's not your gang name. That's not your gang name. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:37

Speaking of that, okay, so he had a name, Little Snoop was right. Snoop. Snoop. Snoop. He he when he was not living for Jesus and on the streets, and and I've talked to lots of guys about this. I know a a friend of ours goes by BJ, and now he goes by Billy, and I've asked him that question, what he wants to be called. Yeah. And he doesn't want to be called BJ anymore. He wants to be called Billy. And I think that's partly because of who he was and who he is now. Does that bother you? What's your preference on that? I know people st I heard somebody just recently call you Snoop when I was talking about it.

SPEAKER_04 2:11

Man, that that it it don't bother me. I've been called that. That that is my that is my gang name. It's a nickname I picked up. I think I was 12 or 13 years old, and it has stuck to me. It's actually uh my first tattoo I was get I had given to me at the age of 13 years old. It was put on the t on my back. And it's a name that it's been with me ever since. There's still a lot of people that call me that. It don't bother me. I think it bothers my wife more than anything. You know what I mean? But it it don't it don't bother me. It is what it is. I know who I am today. That name ain't gonna, you know, define me regardless. So But your preference here, how about that? Preference, Stephen. I'll I'll go by Stephen, you know. But uh I think I like to use it a little uh in in the streets more because uh, you know, I do I d I'm I'm pretty I like to do I'm big in the recovery scene as far as uh uh do trying to do min ministry and help people that struggle in that area because I feel like that's what where God's uh put me, you know, from from my background and my struggles. I think it it kind of tears down uh maybe some walls with some brothers to try to, you know, to meet and uh get get talked to. It makes them feel feel more comfortable meeting them where they're at. You know, hey, there's Snoop, you know, I could talk to him or something in that area. So but it's whatever it's whatever you want to call me. So all right, everybody hear that? You can call him whatever you want. Buttercup or Snoop or Steven or my our our world names are crazy. We got you know, there's so many nicknames and and they stick, you know.

SPEAKER_01 3:37

So tell us about your your story. I mean, like how you got to where you are now, and and I know there's a lot and it's still going, so we'll keep it brief, but just where you came from. You wanna you wanna start off prayer real quick, Pete? You want to pray us? He's already checking me because we didn't start with prayer. Yeah, and he heard did you listen to the first one?

Prayer And The Habit Of Praying

SPEAKER_01 3:55

I've heard a lot of things. So see, I'm getting better because we're starting quicker with prayer. Yeah. I'm gonna let him leave this one since he asks.

SPEAKER_04 4:01

Dear Heavenly Father, just thank you so much. You know, thank you for this day. And uh, you know, thank you for the the people you put beside us and even the problems you put in front of us, dear Heavenly Father, because that's where we learn to seek your face and grow and lean on you more. Dear Heavenly Father, just uh be with the sick, the sad, and the lonely in Jesus' name we pray. Amen. Amen.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

What's funny is I actually confessed this week in groups that I'm the prayer thing is still struggling with doing it enough. And I mean, I'm married, I'm doing it every day. It's not that I'm not doing it, it's just I'm not doing it. I mean I mean the Bible says pray without ceasing, and that's pretty clear that we should be doing it all day, every day.

SPEAKER_04 4:39

So you you know that's funny you bring that up too because on the job, like I stopped praying for a little bit before we started working, and that's important. Definitely with guys I'm bringing in and working, you know, like it's important. I caught myself today and I'm like, man, we gotta start doing y'all hold me accountable on this, you know. That's something that uh we need to do to start to just start it before we even start working, we need to do that. And uh I fall short in that area too, trying to stay on task. So but anyway, brief, brief uh start how I got started. I say uh I come from a a a real uh real rough family. I was born in Ada, raised on the west side of town. My uh my grandmother raised me, my mom's mom. I'm the oldest of a brother and sister, which I always felt like the weight of uh, you know, uh the them depending on me and me falling falling short because the life we lived. My my family was very, very uh

Steve’s Story Of Addiction

SPEAKER_04 5:40

I'd say tore up by drugs and alcohol. When I say drugs and alcohol, I don't mean just, you know, I mean red cap vodka, beer, pills, and Ivy use of methamphetamine. So there was complete chaos in my life at all times. My my dad went to went to prison when I I think I was two or three. I don't know. He did he did 11 years, come home when I was 13. And his mom, she was a good woman. My grandma, my grandma Carrie and my grandma Lily were great women. But she took me to see him all over prisons in Oklahoma, and most of it being at the the walls of Nate Unit in McAllister. And now that I look back, I see seeds were planted as I grew up going to seeing him in these prisons. You know, he was gang affiliated and he was respected, and and and I think seeds of that was planted to me. And then, you know, sh by the time he came home when I was 13, I started getting in trouble. I started getting locked up at the age of say 98. So I was 13 years old. He came home when I think right right before I turned 13, somewhere in that area, and and I started getting in serious trouble. When I say getting in trouble, I mean arson, you know, assault. So by the time I was 18 years old, I've done been locked up all over Oklahoma. So I I I've been in trouble all my life. I've I I uh I have been in some kind of program, facility, or some kind of trouble all the way up in Tennessee until I was 33 or 34 years old. So and you know, I I just I started drinking and using drugs at a very young age. By the time I was 15, I was selling drugs, you know, and then by the time I was 18, I was uh one of probably I was one of the biggest drug dealers in ADA. And not glorifying none of that, it's just part of my story. So uh by the time I was 20, I was strung out on IV use of methamphetamines, which, you know, took a which I always said I'd never do, you know, because I I uh I seen what it done to me and my family, and you know, I was the like I said, I was the oldest of uh brother and sister, and uh I think that that felt uh felt on my shoulders a lot because I felt like I could never protect them and I could never save my mom. You know, no matter what I did, I could never save my mom and uh and uh you know it's hard to deal with. But anyway, you know, I I I'm great, and this thing I I'm grateful to say, you know, I met my wife when I was we were 15 years old. She ran away, she moved here from California, she was a military brat, and she uh moved here when she was 15 or 14. We met, she ran away from home, and uh I mean I fell head over heels when I seen her, you know, and we uh we've we've we've been together ever since, actually. We through addiction. Through addiction. And uh, you know, uh me getting in trouble as a kid. I mean, it was at the point where they come, they would come, the police would come with her mom, and they was like, we're gonna pull your bond, because I was in on bond one time. If uh you don't you don't turn herself in and she done hit the back and was hiding in the woods, you know. We we've when we got married when we was 20, so we've been married 20 years, been together 25 years. So we've been together since we was 15. That's over half our lives, you know, and I'm grateful to say that, and you know, and I love her, and we've we've come overcome a lot of things together.

SPEAKER_01 9:08

So we we met way back when let's see, you were renting a place, right? Yeah. That's where we first met. And that was I I had a I was managing rental property of my own at Twin Lakes RV, actually, and Steve rented a place for me.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

That was when was I see I was eight, Nina was born. Yeah, I was 18 or 19. That was just the missed when I was I was selling a lot of drugs. I actually moved out of that trailer and was trying to move in with my in-laws to try to quit and go legit and uh try something different because we had a there was a lot of things going on.

SPEAKER_01 9:44

So he was living, you know, in drugs. I was not I was the guy at that point would have been, you know, like, yeah, I follow Jesus, but I wasn't following Jesus. I wasn't really doing anything, I wasn't doing anything that he said. It was just all lip service that we know. Jesus talks about that. So but I don't I didn't, you know, when we met fast forward several years, I I didn't remember him at all. Didn't remember that experience, and I think he even left owing some money and trash in the house or something. And I I didn't really remember any of that. And and we ran into each other. We were both volunteering at a widow's dinner, wasn't it? And he was with another brother and and they were just volunteering, and he walked up and um introduced himself, and the first thing he said, I'll never forget is I'm gonna pay you back for everything, everything I owe you. And I'm like, I didn't even know who he was. I'm like, I I I don't know what you're talking about, brother, but like I it's washed, it's gone, you know, I'm not worried about it. And I just thought that was kind of kind of a cool encounter. Is that kind of what you remember that when you're gonna be?

SPEAKER_04 10:45

Yeah, yeah. And you know what's funny is about it is you don't even remember the situation, and I carried it with me for 20 years, you know. I I and I remember, and this is troubles am I making it. I mean, I've done you wrong, but that's far as addicts and how we live in that world, you know, we're we're mad at the world and we blame everybody. But I remember you drove that little cube car. Scion. Scion. And it had a it had a portrait of your face on it. And I think Mike was on it. And every time I seen it, yeah, well, Mike, yeah, Mike was on there. I didn't mind Mike's so bad, I didn't know him, but every time I seen your face, I just wanted to punch it. You know, and then look, it did, it did, did, and then I'm setting up, okay, I'm at Cross Point, I'm on the balcony, and God's done this to me, you know, a few times. Uh you're the one of the most, the first and the rememberable one. So I I'm looking down and I see your shiny little bold head down there. And I'm thinking, okay, God, okay. So I'm kind of, you know, and I've in that part, and that's the parking lot at the church. I mean, I I've gone up to police officers that, you know, you know, become Michael O'Connor, he became a good friend of mine. We used to be, man, well, I was such a horrible person, and we was just, you know, pre-Jes. I think he was going through some things in his life before it was kind of maybe pre-Jesus for him, you know. And he took me to jail multiple times, and I just hated him, man. I'm not gonna say he felt the same way about me, because I don't want to speak for him, but but but I love Michael. He we become friends. I I come to the parking lot with him, made some ends with him, and I was waiting for the time with you to come up to you, and then, you know, a mutual brother of ours, he had me come out there to do the the uh widow's deal, and it happened to be you that he was talking about, and then bam, you know.

SPEAKER_03 12:28

So God threw us together. Yeah, he threw us together.

SPEAKER_01 12:31

So and after that, let's see, I guess probably next step in our relationship would be uh we started going down to a little cabin. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 12:40

You invited you invited me to go to the cabin, and I said, Can I bring my boy? And you said, Yeah. So I was in, you know, bring Steven Jr. And man, it's been a it's been a ride ever since. Ever since that first ride down there, you know. Well, we had great conversation. I really that's when I became well that's when I was taught by you the difference between believing and following. You know, because I didn't even I didn't I didn't even know a difference, you know. I figured and uh that's when I think it hit me like, hey, I don't I don't I don't want to just be a believer, you know, I want to be a follower. I mean anybody could believe, you know. Man, it's been on we've been on a ride ever since. Then really multiple times to the cabin, you know, where I end up eventually bringing all my boys.

Making Amends And Becoming Friends

unknown 13:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:26

And I got I got a little crew, so but Yeah, we had some good times for sure, and still still are, still planning on going again. So what about the cabin trips? I mean, I know we've we've taken a lot of guys down there, and Steve helps me when we go down there. You know, we'll we'll find guys that are that are in addiction or trying to get out of addiction and and we'll grab them and say, Yeah, let's go down to the cabin and work right beside them and be able to talk to them about Jesus and just try to witness and just just love on them and try to figure out how we can help. And what uh what kind of things do you remember about that as far as the guys or or even just stuff you've learned from different guys or going down there or that kind of thing?

SPEAKER_04 14:10

Well, you know, I I think we've for one, we built some great relationships. Uh, you know, uh whether they're still, you know, active or not, you know what I mean, what whatever their struggle or our struggles may be, like we've built some great relationships. Uh and it's been nothing like I've ever experienced before in my life, uh, having that. You know, I've even uh we've even had family trips down there with my own personal family. And uh, you know, last year we started a a trip down there. We ride our Harleys down there, me and some of the guys, and we was able to take uh, you know, a couple of the rough cuts. I call rough cuts because that's what we are, you know, rough cuts down there and and kind of show them a little bit uh of what what we do and try to speak speak the word a little bit and uh and always pray together, you know. I think it's uh I think it's amazing. And uh definitely knowing the background of that place of uh what was, you know, who who it belonged to before.

SPEAKER_01 15:04

So we got a close mutual friends that that built the cabin down there, and they they were heathens by their own story, and had a bar, drunks, and they lived there, never really even finished it, and then left, came to Christ, and it was just sitting empty, and we kind of redeemed, redeemed it for them, and that now they go down there and spend time there, and it it's it's a whole different place full of full of Jesus, and it's been been awesome for me too, just to kind of get away. I work my mind a lot, and there I get to work my body and not have to think as much and just let somebody tell me what to do and how to do it, because Steve knows how to do all that, and I don't know how to do any of it, so that's that's been been good for me as well. What about let's talk about mission trips? So we went from not liking each other to going on mission trips. We've been to South Dakota more than once and Pine Ridge

Cabin Trips And Believing Vs Following

SPEAKER_01 15:55

Reservation, and then we've been to Africa together. Tell everybody about a little bit about some of those memories that you have.

SPEAKER_04 16:01

Oh man, that's you know, I went on my fit first first mission trip with you to South Dakota and man I loved it. It's it's it's I can't even describe how I feel and what goes on, you know. When I go there and when I come back. I've actually been on uh multiple mission trips since and we've been down, I think we've been down there. We go every year in November. I think we've been our fourth year, I think. And yeah, and uh and I love it. I I like to get down there and because then there's a lot of there's there's that they're struggling bad, you know, definitely with alcoholism, addiction. I feel like I've said earlier I can relate in that area. You know, I remember I think not last year, but the year before that we went and me and Pete got up there in front of a a crowd and and kind of did our testimony a little bit and uh and and and cut some jokes that we thought were hilarious. But man, I tell you what, it was real it was a tough crowd. You know, I mean we didn't get nobody to laugh. And uh I won't never forget that. But I kinda I remember I kind of I kind of cracked the joke that we've we traveled all over the world together and we hadn't at that time, and then the next the following coming up, we get we I get I get blessed to go to Africa together, and that was an experience, you know. Uh it was it was awesome. Uh, you know, I'm here I am a a multi felon, you know, never never left the United States. I didn't even think I could get a passport, you know, and that was one of the hurdles we had to cross to get there. I even had I even had to take a separate plane. Yeah, he didn't even fly with them. I couldn't fly with them because uh, you know, getting over the hurdle of getting a passport and it it's something changed some things up. They even tried to swap tickets with me so that I wouldn't fly by myself. You know, you can imagine the trouble I've gotten into just in Ada, you know. But but you know, and it was great, man. We got over there and man, I th I I took a lot from that mission trip. I I got to get over there and you know, I really got to meet get to know Chad and Ashley. You know, it's one thing seeing them at church and coming and going, but to actually get to spend time with them and and get to know them on a personal level and and experience something like that was it was phenomenal. I I won't never forget it, you know, and it's such a slower time over there. Everything's in waiters as well. Like they come out with the water. Yeah, it's like time slowed way down. And uh I I brought some of that back with me, and I tried to keep it with me, and it lasted, I think, for about a month. You know? You know, I was like, I'm gonna slow my world down. Yeah you know, and also brought me a wilder beast rogue back.

SPEAKER_01 18:33

Uh yeah, he's yeah, we were worried about him getting back back through customs with the wilderbeast skin or whatever he had. He he made it through. Um I remember Pine Ridge. Now he wear, if y'all don't know Steve, he's got gold chains. How many can't how many got on right now? Like three, three gold chains on or something like that. Yeah. And we go up to Pine Ridge, you know, it's the poorest county in the nation per capita, and you know, we're really helping a lot of the Native Americans there and and the poor. And I forget, we're going to get some stuff for somebody or something, and he's on the phone with his daughter, video chatting, and I just kind of I'm coming back up to the car if I remember right. And and she's like, Dad, you're wearing those gold chains and you're helping poor people, and and you're gonna see his face, and I just about lost it. I think he started tucking his, didn't you just talk about it? Okay, you started tucking his chains in after that so that he wouldn't make somebody stumble or something. It was pretty funny, but we've had some good trips for for sure, for sure. What about music? I remember you kind of telling me a little bit. I don't know if that was a cabin trip or a mission trip or like some some music stuff that that you really helped you in your walk.

SPEAKER_04 19:41

Oh man, I tell you what, I I struggled with my music when I first got see I got sober in see 2018 and then started, you know, going to church and uh life recovery meetings, and uh I struggled with my music and you know, because I I grew up in the 90s, man. I like to I like to bump, you know, I like like to uh l listen to music and I struggled with that. And then I tell you what though, when I changed my music, it changed my life. Seriously. Like I ain't I ain't kidding you, man. It it it was uh really a big uh eye-opener and game changer for me. You know, I got I got two, I got we got we got a big family. We got uh quite a few kids, but my two girls, you know, they're 23 now and 19, and they grew up totally different than our younger ones did. You know, they they they they grew up, but we was pretty hardcore. And I can only imagine

Mission Trips And Culture Shock

SPEAKER_04 20:30

now with the stuff that they grew up listening to, you know, and it started weighing heavy on me. And you know, the first time I come from a Bible study in Asher, brother Eric Crandall was holding a Bible study down there on Friday nights in Asher. And, you know, he spoke a little bit on where what you know Satan's job was in heaven, and you know, that he was over the the the the you know gospel the media. Some people believe that yeah, he was the worship leader. Yeah, worship leader, and and and then that night I'd come home and we'd always load up. I'd pick up a bunch of people and get as many as we could from Mama T's, wherever, and we'd go down there every Friday night. You know, small trailer, all of us would cram in, eating, get in the word, you know what I mean? And uh anyway, so that night I come back home and I'm I go in the living room and uh Brian T, which is a you know a Christian rapper, he I w I listened to one of his freestyles, and man, it just done something to me. And I started digging more and more into you know Christian music, and then you've helped me a lot with that, and I've had some other brothers help me with a lot with that to start because man, there's all I don't care what your pre preference is, country rock or what, there's some great positive Christian music out there that's that's really sprit uh that's spitting or singing good good good uh good verses, you know, good stuff. So because I did the the the K Love deal, you know, I did that and I was thinking, yeah, the challenge. I was like, man, and uh for me to even do that was kind of crazy, you know, but I was like, God. There's gotta be something better than just I love Caleb. Don't get me wrong. Now I got a saying that says uh bump bump Caleb, not meth. You know what I mean? I love Caleb. You know, so but but for sure, yeah, it was a game changer for me. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 22:14

I think of Matthew 6, 22, and 23 on this, your eye is like the lamp, a lamp that provides light for your body. When your eye is healthy, your whole body is filled with light. But when your eye is unhealthy, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep the darkness is. I think that's a great scripture for it's you better trash in, trash out. I mean, that that's whatever you're putting in your ears and your eyes is gonna come out one way or the other. And so do you want it to be light, do you want it to be darkness? And one thing we have in common is we're both rap fans, and you know, God called me back through a rap song called Joyful Noise that preached the gospel. And so I'm a huge rap fan as well. I get rashed a lot in some of the Bible studies with some of the older guys, but I constantly remind them that I've memorized some scripture from those songs, and so nobody's gonna come against that, I don't think. But I even think of a phrase I just used with a brother trying to get into treatment just the other day that I got from a rap song. And I, you know, I literally learned this little phrase from a rap song. He was struggling with his past and trying to not look forward like he needed to. And I said, you know, Satan wants to remind us of our past, but you remind him of his future. And I told the brother, you know, we win. We win. So still trying to get that guy, probably not gonna name a name, but let's just pray for an unnamed brother that needs to get some treatment to help, and we're trying to get him in. The Hope Center is uh is a program here in Ada that we volunteer with and Steve's help with guys get guys in there, and that's a Christ-based place that really helps guys get back on their feet. So tell us a little bit about that, like as as far as working with those guys in drug and alcohol and what you're doing there right now.

SPEAKER_04 23:54

You know, I've I've kind of I've kind of for the Hope Center in general. Yeah, the Hope Center. I've kind of stepped back from the Hope Center a lot quite a bit. I love that program. I love them brothers. Anyway, I could support them, I do my best. But you know, we we help lead the life recovery team. Me and my wife do. I'm I'm glad to be able to say that, you know, definitely far of how far me and her have come, you know, from I mean, honestly, just go, I mean, riding in the backseat of cop cars together, going to jail together to leading life recovery meetings, just a big change, you know. Uh but man, we we we do our best to try to we we got cards. We it's important to reach out and connect with people. Like you gotta tear the walls down. That's like that's the deal, like with me and you. No, the glory don't go to you, the glory don't go to me, the glory goes to God. But but we was willing to to forgive and and try to love somebody that's the complete opposite of one another. You know, like that we, you know, like Peter says it all the time, he's he's a square I'm an addict, but that's the name of the that's that's the goal is to try to to try to to tear down the walls and build bridges, you know, and it's important. And by being willing to do that, man, I have some great relationships.

SPEAKER_01 25:08

Like, you know, I And we've learned so much from each other just because our our paths are so much different, our perspective is is just so much different.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

And uh and it's taught me a lot on that by doing that with uh you know, with people that uh that I mean for for people I got people names tattooed on me that are in tombstones that are still alive that you know that that we had beef or it was wronged in the street, whatever the case may be, that I've been able to, you know, one time in the church, for one, walk up and and put that beside and and shake hands with that brother and and and forgive him, you know, and he'd forgive me as well, you know, and that's that's that's what it takes, you know. You but you gotta be able, you gotta be willing to surrender and uh try it, try it God's way. I I know where it gets me when I you know when I work for myself. Don't want to try to work for him, you know what I mean? It doesn't work out.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

And it don't work out. So and speaking of tats, we've talked about this too, you know, judging. We do I do a whole Bible study on judging. The Bible teaches to judge. Let's just get that real clear. It does teach to judge, it just to teach us to judge correctly. I mean, we often judge incorrectly. If we're using the Bible in the in the correct interpretation of the Bible, we will judge correctly, and that will help our brother not hurt him. But we've talked about how his side of the world and the addicts always talk about tats, tattoos, and stuff like that, and they're judged by people by how they look, and that does absolutely happen on my side of the of the fence and on people that that you know we we judge incorrectly there. But then on their side of the fence, what we don't often hear that they that Steve's acknowledged this, and I've even talked to other brothers about this, they judge us just the same way, incorrectly, by the way we dress. Maybe I come in in a nice clothes or whatever, or a square haircut, or whatever it you know it is, they they do the same type of incorrect judging that we do for the way they look. Right off the bat. Yeah, and right off the bat, and that immediately starts a relationship down the wrong path. And so we've got to be really careful on both sides of that how we how we handle that for sure. One other thing I haven't talked about, he's got another name that I gave him. You remember your other name?

unknown 27:10

Probably.

SPEAKER_01 27:11

I don't I only have a couple brothers that I I've have called this. Um I'm sure I've got others, but I call him Barnabas. I call him Barnabas. And because in the Bible in Acts we see that Barnabas' name means son of encouragement. Steve will light up a room, you know, when he comes in. He's always he's a big time hugger. He wants to hug, he wants to love, he wants to brighten your day. It's really hard to be to not be around him. I mean, to be around him and not smile. And I just kind of when I read about Barnabas in the Bible, what what I get from that, I just feel like that's that's who Steve is. I mean, that's that's that's who God's put where he put him and he is just full of joy. Full of joy.

SPEAKER_04 27:51

Thank you, brother. I appreciate that. And and you know, it used to be the complete opposite for me because you know, I say I've never I've never been sober because I never lived a sober life as a kid growing up. Everything was so chaotic, and I was so angry and mad all the time that like I don't feel like I was truly ever who I I really am today. And then I get sober and start start doing my best to to live lined up and uh and you know, and I I look myself in the mirror and I and I like who I am today. You know, I still struggle with a lot of things. I still got a lot of work to do. I got a I got I got a ways to go, but uh, but I'm still gonna keep reaching and you know it's the complete opposite of who I used to be now. You know, I I didn't the la last thing I was gonna do is come up to you and hug you or that before, you know. I mean, there's a lot of things. Yeah, it didn't, you know, and and I think that's what when I first got sober, that's uh my attitude changed and uh I stay I try to stay positive through all that I do. It's either attitude's gonna make you or break you, you know. And it was a game changer for me. You know, I started trying to focus more on the good than the bad, you know, because in all reality, no matter where I come from or how I was brought up or what was done, most of it was troublesome on making. You know, to put me in the positions I put myself in and my family and my wife and kids, you know, I have drugged them through the mud. Right.

SPEAKER_03 29:11

You know.

SPEAKER_01 29:11

And talk about I had one, I had one, I had feedback from the podcast last week. I mentioned AA and that Satan was a part of of that program. I uh uh it's more than that. I mentioned his he's part of politics, he's part of every system of man according to what I see in the Bible. Um, he's the ruler of the world. But AA was a a stepping stone for you, I think, that that helps you get a step closer to Jesus.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

Yeah, yeah. AA and NA. I I leaned more on AA when I got sober. See, because I felt like I had to get to the root of my problem as far as in the alcohol. I think I kind of really done some analyzing, and I think it all really started with alcohol for me. Because before I got sober, my sobriety was as long as I wasn't doing meth. I was sober, but I'm still drinking, eating pills, fighting.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

I've learned that. I've learned when somebody says sober in this world, you gotta ask them what that means. Everybody's definition of sober is different. And in this case, Steve's was

Changing Music Changed My Life

SPEAKER_01 30:05

just not doing meth. And then some it's like everything is sober, but but marijuana's not. I mean, that's that doesn't count. And so I I now I ask them, what does that mean? Because they have to tell me.

SPEAKER_04 30:15

Yeah, and and I for me that was sober, and I I realized, but every time I drink, I would it was a vicious soccer for me. I'd end up, you know, back, I'd end right back up with a needle anymore. Went back in the same boat. So I focused on the root of drinking because I was I'm an alcoholic. And so I started in an AA, three legacy, uh love the group, love the meeting. There's some really some old timers there. I know what they're doing, you know, and I was required, so I hit all the meetings, but I I've I found one that works for me, you know, and and that's the deal, you know. What works for me might not work for somebody else, but the meetings do work. Meetings make or make it. Only and I love AA, but I think it's AA is to get you to God, it's to get you back, you know, or if you need not even back, but if you've been there. But I think people lose uh lose grasp there and end up making AA their church. Or A. You know, that's my my personal opinion. Yeah, you know, and that's it and and and but uh AA is a great program. NAAA, I love them all, I support 'em all. You know, it just it takes different different ways to get our our our attentions. We're hard-headed, man.

SPEAKER_01 31:22

I don't know if they still do it, but do they still say like you announce your name and I am an alcoholic or something like that? See, I I got a real problem with that. I I just I really Steve is not a drug addict anymore. He's a former drug addict that's now been changed by Christ. And so to me, it's like you're you're saying something that you're not. And that's I don't know. I just can't find that part in the Bible. I guess that's one of the problems. But I but I know it's a great program. I know it's helped a lot of people. I just and meetings like Steve said are great. Uh we encourage people to get in in in if they're in drug and alcohol meetings, but also Bible studies. I mean, the word of God is what changes you. And a lot of times meetings are are fellowship and helping each other and sharing stories, but the word of God is what you need to add to that to get you where you need to be in Christ. Because if you're only focusing on your sobriety, you're you're gonna fail like the story with Jared we talked about. If that's your focus, you might make it for a while, but it's not gonna work because Jesus is the only one that's gonna take care of that. If someone listening doesn't believe in Christ, what would you want them to understand about your journey that might help them believe?

SPEAKER_04 32:28

Ask me that one more time.

SPEAKER_01 32:30

Okay, if someone listening doesn't believe, we're gonna have all kinds of people listening to this. Or maybe, maybe they doubt. I mean, we've had a lot of doubt right now. I've been asking a lot of people if they died today, how likely are they to make it to heaven between one and ten? And to be honest, in most of the rooms, I'm not getting very many tens, and then I'm asking, what's it gonna take to get there? And then I'm hearing I, I, I, I. And those people, unfortunately, like me, when I was growing up, don't understand the gospel if they're saying I have to do something to get to heaven. Um, it's all about him and what he did on the cross. So anybody listening that has any doubt about whether they're a Christian or not, because we see that all over the Bible, or they don't believe, what would you want them to understand about your story? What in your story do you think would help them overcome that doubt, or say Jesus is the only way?

SPEAKER_04 33:27

Man, I I think it would be that there's no other explanation for me or my testimony that that it wasn't Jesus that brought me through. From knowing me now to knowing me then, you know, is just night and day. Like I think I've changed so much in my life that I've had you know, I had I've had people, I've had Chad tell me when we was in Africa, he looked over at me and told me, he said, I cannot picture you being other than who you are now. And that was a great feeling

Recovery Ministry And Judging Well

SPEAKER_04 33:55

to me. You know, that that felt great. And you know, just seeing what he's done for me in my life and the things he's pulled me through, there's no other explanation. You can't convince me otherwise. Now it's a process and it's a journey, but you gotta, you gotta, you gotta start surrendering on a daily basis. I, you know, I started doing this when I first got sober, and I still do it till this day. The only thing that's changed from me starting into now is that I get up every morning, I wash my face off, and I look in the mirror, and I'd make myself look myself in the eyes in the mirror and tell myself I was gonna be great. I still do that till this day. The only thing difference is I tell myself I'm gonna be great through Jesus Christ. Amen. And uh and there's a big difference in those two things.

SPEAKER_01 34:39

A lot of self-help books out there that say just tell yourself you're great.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

And it's it's important, you know. We we we beat up on ourselves, you know, and I tell people all the time that come that's in the streets or whatever, and that's like uh that's why I love life recovery, because life recovery, you don't have to be an alcoholic or an addict, you know, because that's barely scratching the surface of what's yeah, we're that's barely scratching the surface of what's really going on. We got to get to the root of the problem. If you don't get to the root of the problem, I say this all the time, and I don't know if people like it or not, but there's a good chance that you might end up an alcoholic or a drug addict if you don't get to the root of the problem. We gotta get we gotta get to the root of what's going on. Absolutely. Like we compare, you know, we're real bad about comparing each other's, like, you know, and comparing sin and all that. Sin, sin, you know, and I I that's I just feel like uh, you know, that's that's that's important. We gotta we gotta get to the root of what's going on. And if and if we're it's it's it's what we it's what it's it's what we put in and and when we take it out. What are we gonna try to what are we gonna try to fill it with? You know, I mean I went through all the phases when I got sober, you know, as far as things, material things, this and that. You're constantly trying to fill that void. You're never gonna be happy, you're gonna be left empty if you don't fill it with the love of the Lord.

SPEAKER_01 36:01

I think Ecclesiastes is a book I I recommend to a lot of guys, especially in addiction or any kind of any kind of struggles about wealth and health and just all the stuff that that we tend to want to put. There some of the stuff is good, good things that we make the best. And once we put things above God, even our kids or our wife, it's not gonna work out very well. But Solomon goes through that whole process in Ecclesiastes, and he I always tell people when you read Ecclesiastes, if you want to understand it, it's about a 30-minute read, first of all. It's really easy to get through, but start at the end. And at the end, what he says is, But my child, let me give you some further advice. Be careful, for writing books is endless, and much study wears you out. That's the whole story. Here's now my final conclusion. Fear God and obey his commands, for this is everyone's duty. God will judge us for everything we do, including every secret thing, whether good or bad. So this is the richest and the smartest man ever to live, and that's his conclusion after trying everything. Everything he tried it all, and that's what a lot of guys have to unfortunately they have to try it all and get to the very, very, very, very, very bottom before they can see the light and who Christ is and what he's offering. He's offering this unbelievable freedom. It's it's it's a paradox, but you have to surrender to be free. And once you do that, it it changes you forever, like it has Steve, I think. Alright, so we normally will end on prayer, praise, and confession. This is something we do in our groups, and we start off with just an open floor in a group, and it's not not everybody has to go around and confess or pray or anything like that, but it's just an open floor for them to do that. So I'm gonna start with Steve and just uh I'd like him to give us a prayer, a praise, and a confession of of sin.

SPEAKER_04 37:47

So uh prayer, you know, I I just asked for prayer and uh, you know, balance in my life with uh, you know, the ministry and just just uh the the work life, the family life, you know. We got see, we got we got five children, two teenagers, and my wife and th three adults in our household right now, two of them adults being elders, and you know, it it all amounts to is I'm the uh and I'm the leader of the family. I'm I'm the leader of the home. And uh I just I just ask for prayer and that to to to lead right and for patience and and you know to love. We just got a lot going on and and it and it and it's and it's tough. It gets tough sometimes, but I'm grateful to be where I'm at in the position I'm in. And you know, I love I love my wife and kids and uh my family, my whole household uh dearly. They're the ones that that that keep me going. And you know, I I talk about that, I find myself talking about that a lot sometimes because I think that's my way of decomposing with it sometimes because it gets because it's you know it's so chaotic sometimes, you know. But yeah, I just prayer for that and then uh and what was the next one? Praise. Praise praise for God. You know, I'm gonna give glory to God. Like I said earlier, you know, it's not glory to you or me or anybody good. The glory goes to him, but we gotta be willing as vessels to to surrender in his will and and uh and to try to and I encourage you to try to love somebody that you just have a hard time loving. You know, love your enemies, like pray for them, you know, be willing to have a different mindset of going at them uh so hardly, you know. I come from a world where we uh things can get bad real quick and you know, people get hurt and stuff like that. And you gotta, man, reverse that. Like just try something different, because I promise you, your way probably ain't working. If it was your way, it was any way like my way, it didn't work, you know. So I encourage you to to try to love on somebody that you're having a

Surrender, Freedom, And The Gospel

SPEAKER_04 39:55

hard time loving or even liking, you know. But I do encourage healthy boundaries too. So don't, you know, people people get that mixed up too. I come from a very uh unfit family. I call a sick family, as far as you know, with uh just because drugs and alcohol are not healthy. But you gotta have boundaries, you know. Your mom and dad. Yeah, it's not an able, like you know, like like you, you know, you love your mom and dad. You you still honor them, but you gotta have healthy boundaries. If they're not good for you, they're not good for you. You know, I've seen a lot of people fall over it. I fell over it many a times. Not saying I was nowhere near ready necessarily, but I still fell pretty hard over it.

SPEAKER_01 40:31

And then confession, just a recent sin that you wanna want to confess or have confessed that you think you don't like I like doing 100 miles an hour on my Harley.

SPEAKER_04 40:41

No, you know, let's dig a little deeper. I I say uh recent confession, you know, I had a had an incident with the brother two, you know, Tuesday. I think it was Tuesday, yeah. We had I had some pride involved, and and I want to even say a little bit of judgment on my end, you know, and uh for me to even say that's kind of hard for me to say because I've been on that side of the tracks, I know what that's like. And uh, you know, things got things, you know, with with us rough cuts, you know, with guys like like us, addicts and you know, alcoholics and stuff can get out of hand really quick. You know, we handle things a little different. We work, we work real hard to do things better, but things can get out of hand real quick, and it almost and it could have. And you know, it almost did, and I could have lost a I could have lost a brother over it, you know, and I want to confess that that pride, a little bit of judgment, anger, you know, you take all that and mix it up, and it did, it it ended differently than I thought it was, thank God, you know, and we was able to we reconciled. We was and uh he's a rough cut like me, you know, and he we reconciled, we we talked later on that night, conversation went a little better, but it still wasn't in wasn't that great. But the next morning we was able to pray and talk and and and move forward.

SPEAKER_01 41:56

We see even in the Bible, this kind of healthy conflict that when handled correctly, it actually strengthens the relationship many times. We see that you know Paul and Barnabas got into it over John Mark. We don't even know what happened there, we don't even know who was wrong or right there. I I kind of tend to think both of them are wrong. I kind of I see John, I see Paul and and Barnabas kind of like me and Steve with our with our roles in the kingdom as far as the truth and the grace, and we talked about that. And I could easily see how me and Steve could get off on, you know, he wants to give another guy a chance. I'm like that guy's already already missed with us and we we can't trust him. And we see that happening in the Bible, and but yet we also see them coming back together in the Bible, just like he just explained. I think that's beautiful and appreciate that.

SPEAKER_04 42:39

Yeah, yeah, and and it hurts when we went through it, it didn't feel good, but I needed it because it it brought some uh brought brought some things to my attention that I was doing that wasn't right, you know. And and even on in the situation of the relationship where I'm the leader.

unknown 42:54

Right.

SPEAKER_04 42:54

You know what I mean? And and and I feel like in that relationship I'm the leader, and there's some things that I should have done different that was brought to my attention and uh Okay. Cool.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Okay, so it's my turn now, I guess. Prayer. Just I guess the ministry, just ministry and the people and the groups. I mean, we had one of our Bible studies this 5 30 in the morning this week, we had 26 guys show up. Praise God for that. But I also know the heart of small groups, been doing them since 2015. The heart of small groups is the fewer the people, the better. It's not about numbers. And when I say fewer the people, I mean seven to twelve. That's the number that you actually grow the most together, learn the most together, confess the most together. And so just just prayers for how to handle that, how to what to do with that, and then just my family. People ask me how my kids are, and and um I've got six. I'll say which one because I can't say good. I can't give you just the stock answer that everybody because they're not all good, and none of us are all good, to be honest. I mean when you really break it down. So I think those two things on that. Praise just

Prayer Praise Confession Closing

SPEAKER_01 44:05

what I'm seeing God doing. He is bringing people like never before, people that are the outcast. He's bringing them up and calling them out, and they are going hard for Jesus. I mean, almost immediately, it seems like. And there's there's this movement in a lot of churches and a lot of teaching towards this all grace and no truth, but in the streets I'm seeing both, and and that seems to have so much more power. So I'm just excited about that and praising God for all the new brothers that I'm gaining and all the new believers that I'm seeing. So confession. Well, of course, prayer. I've been continuing on that. I'm still working on that, and I confess that in a group this week. But also just the busyness. I've I've actually got on pastors before the friends that I've had in the past about putting their Jesus job ahead of Jesus. And people would never even think that's possible, but there's just so much to organization and doing things that sometimes you aren't in the room when someone's telling you a story because you're thinking about where you're going to take them next or put them next or hand them off to somebody or get you know get them help. And I'm not hearing their actual story. I still catch myself doing that. It's embarrassing. So I need to get better at that. And I think part of that is just me slowing down, like Steve said at the beginning, you know, it's like we're running 90 miles an hour. And yeah, we can get a lot of stuff done, but we can also miss a lot of things and miss a lot of people. So I think that's that's probably one another thing I really need to work on right now. So man, I've enjoyed it, Steve. We've probably left out a whole bunch of stories, and we're gonna get done with this and say, God, we didn't talk about that. We've got just too much to talk about in just a few minutes. But you run into this brother on the street, give him a hug.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

And you'll see you'll notice him by the gold chains for sure. Because he's got those things going around.

SPEAKER_01 46:11

Um but no, love him to death and just look forward to continuing to go on trips. And we're even planning a trip to maybe Tennessee sometime to meet some brothers. We met in Pine Ridge on a on a mission trip. So we're looking for who's next. Uh, we got lots of people on the lots of people we're talking, I'm talking to about coming on next. And I hope you guys enjoyed and God bless. I'm gonna close this in prayer. I didn't forget. Thank you, thank you, Lord. So Father God, just thank you for Steve. Thank you for his walk. Thank you for this this time just to sit here and talk. We're we're just trying to bring glory to you. We're trying to do things different and just share what we've been given and share the gifts that you've blessed us with, and share the stories that hopefully help others. In Jesus' name. Amen. Amen. Luckily. All right.