97 - A Story of Conviction and Growth with Ke'von Curry

What happens when faith gets tested through pain, doubt, injury, temptation, and isolation?

In this powerful testimony-driven episode of The Good Gift Podcast, we sit down with Ke'von to talk about football, torn ACLs, fasting, conviction, discipleship, spiritual growth, and what it truly means to trust God when life falls apart.

This conversation dives into:

•  The difference between saying you believe and actually living it 
•  Wrestling with doubt, sin, and spiritual conviction 
•  Fasting, prayer, and hearing God through Scripture 
•  Why discipleship and godly mentorship matter 
•  The danger of cultural Christianity 
•  Faith, obedience, repentance, and spiritual maturity 
•  Learning to lead as a man of God 
•  Identity beyond sports, performance, and success 

From painful injuries and dark seasons to deep spiritual growth, this episode is an honest look at how God can use suffering to shape a person’s faith and character.

Whether you’re struggling with doubt, trying to overcome sin, questioning your purpose, or simply wanting to grow deeper in your walk with Christ, this conversation is meant to encourage you to stay grounded in Scripture and pursue genuine faith over empty religion.

“Faith without works is dead.” — James 2:17

Scripture quotations are taken from the Holy Bible, New Living Translation, copyright © 1996, 2004, 2015 by Tyndale House Foundation. Used by permission of Tyndale House Publishers, Carol Stream, Illinois 60188. All rights reserved. 

 Scripture quotations taken from The Holy Bible, New International Version® (NIV®). Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984, 2011 by Biblica, Inc.® Used by permission. All rights reserved worldwide.

Transcript

Opening Prayer And Big Question

Pete 0:00

Father God, just thank you for thank you Ke'von. Thank you for our friendship. Just asking for a conversation that brings glory to you. Shares our stories. And just allow the Holy Spirit to be here and speak to both of us. In Jesus' name. Amen. All right. So Ke'von, tell me about your story with Jesus, football, and kind of a little bit about how you got to where you are today.

Ke'von 0:31

Okay. Well, like most people, grew up in church, you know, but it's more so, you know, when your parents make you go, you don't have that relationship on your own necessarily, kind of just listening out of obedience. You know, once I got to college is when I started my own walk and actually beginning to gain some understanding. So I started a mentorship with our campus pastor, and uh he was a big help. We met once a week with uh accountability, is how it started. So he'd had

From Church Attendance To Ownership

Ke'von 1:05

me write a list of five things, you know, what are some things you can improve or what are some things you want me to keep you accountable for? So I gave him the list. And then as we're meeting week to week, we have things that we read, we come and talk about, and then on those accountability things, you know, it really makes you start thinking about your behavior when this is the second or third week you've been in his office. It's like, so how do we do on this? I didn't accomplish that, you know. So he's like, well, what are we doing here if you're not going in, you're just like, okay, just uh actually having that other piece of accountability, you know, makes me think about because I talk talk to you a lot, talk to my dad about you a lot when it comes to the church. And I say, uh, I really think you view the church as the people more than the building. Well, having the people allows for that accountability. Right. Versus if you're just going to a building, you don't necessarily have the relationship you would with, you know, small groups. And so that was my first introduction to small group things.

Pete 2:01

And I think accountability too, I always think about there's accountability for sin, which is obviously very, very important, but there's also accountability for righteousness. And I had a brother recently just confess in groups that he wasn't reading the word enough. And I knew I wanted to try to help with that, but I also didn't want to press too hard. So I just told him, hey, you know, you you mentioned that. You probably need to find someone or something to to help you stay accountable to reading the word more. And it was a few days later and he came to me and he said, Hey, I want you to I want you to do that. I was like, okay, cool. So we just picked a book, a short book. I think we started with Second Peter, and we just agree we're going to try to read it every day for a week. And I would text him or he would text me and just, how you doing, you know, and and now we're moving to another book. And I mean, so I think a lot of times we think it's only about sin, but I think for you know, for righteousness and for things that we want to do. I've even used that for for different things. If you don't tell another man a lot of times, it's real easy to not hold yourself accountable. I mean, that's what we I mean, that's what we do that for, I guess.

Ke'von 3:08

I agree with you on that. Yeah, we uh so I met that campus pastor through football, and through him was actually the first time I gave a a sermon to a group. It's the first time I actually talked. A group it was our football team before our games. We usually have like a I won't call it a Bible study because it's more of just being talked to. Right.

Pete 3:30

Kind of like a devotional kind of Right, just about.

Ke'von 3:33

And so 2023 I was playing football and I tore my ACL probably like game four. And it wasn't it wasn't too hot. Crazy thing about it, so I was in the game, I went to take on the block, felt my knee kind of do something weird that I knew it wasn't supposed to. And I remember on the field, I said, Lord, if that was my knee that just gave out, just let me get back to Ada. I said, because if I go down this field, these 350-pound linemen, they're gonna jump on me. They don't care if these guys are nasty. They see you go down,

First ACL Tear And New Leadership

Ke'von 4:05

they're gonna double it. So I was like, Lord, just let me get back to campus. So I actually end up finishing out the game. Then uh we get on the bus, we get home, and then we get to our first practice. And so something that our coach always preached was that, you know, if you want to be a starter, you gotta be on scout team. And I'm sure everyone's heard that. To an extent, it's true that, you know, as the season goes on, that falls off. But I was one of the guys who always wanted to be out there. So I go out there on a scout kickoff, first practice after that game, sprinting down the field, take on the guy, take on another guy. I go to make a tackle, and my knee just bows out real bad. And uh I go to hobbling off the field. I was like, You good? I said, No, no, I'm I'm not okay. And uh it was the most excruciating pain I've ever felt. I told people it was like a white pain, like just your whole body is just signaling, you know.

Pete 4:54

I tore my ACL in basketball, so I know how that feels.

Ke'von 4:57

Yeah, yeah. So it wasn't fun. I told the team, like what did the the trainer? Like we were sitting there standing, I said, You mind if I uh just lay down on the turf real quick? And it's like, yeah. So, you know, I do that. And then so once I got removed from football that first time, that's when I really got to get more into the 101s. And so we're going to some stuff. And, you know, he's just really mentoring me more now, more intentional, because I have a lot more free time than most guys do. And then I had to take more of a hands-off leadership role with the team. And so that came from well, that resulted in instead of being able to lead by example through play, not to do it in my actions. Because regardless of me playing or not, I still had a voice on the team. And with me having taken on the mentorship, football and faith now comes together. And so I was using faith to guide that leadership, which also transforms your relationships and aspect. Now you can't just hang out with the guys the way you used to. You know, you can't be trying to teach them, but then you're doing the same stuff right there in front of them. You lose your credibility. Right. You know, you have to have that actual change. So, but I go through that first one, and I remember I had said, like as we're going through it, I remember I was waking up in the middle of the night, throwing my knee brace at the wall. I'm getting upset. One morning I woke up, got a little motivated. I said, I'm gonna go for a run today. I go to stand up and my leg's locked out. I forgot I had tore it. So I'm just sitting in the house. So it was a lot, man. But so that goes through. Now I remember, like I said, I told him, I remember I said, if I ever tore my ACL again, I would go into a very dark place. And those are the exact words I use. I said, a very dark place. And so I get through that first one. Well, second season comes around. This is now 24, and I go through the summer workouts, everything's going good. A week out from the season, I tear with the same ACL again. Now, backstory to why that one was so wild. I had been wearing my knee brace from the 2023 fall that I tore in my ACL. So we're not even at a full year from when it happened again, but I was wearing my knee brace, and during that time, I started doing a lot more Bible study, had got a concordance. So I was really trying to understand what I was reading beyond, you know, just

Healing, Braces, And Testing Faith

Ke'von 7:13

surface level, you know looking at the word selection and whatnot. And one of the things that, you know, you'd fall into in that situation is healing. So that's what I started reading about. And I believe when you and I talked about the guy, I think it's Kenneth E. Higgins. Some people think he's like a prophet. Yeah, I seem like a kind of guy. But one of the lessons that he was teaching was that he was emphasizing the when you pray for it, you have to believe you have it. You have to conduct yourself as a person who has what they're praying for. You have your healing, you have your blessings. And I had took that to another level, which I'll get into later. But so one of the examples he had used was a lady who had some back problems, and you know, she took it to God, took it to the church, prayed about it. When she got home, she took her back brace off, threw it across the room, and said, Thank God I'm healed. And, you know, most people hear that and be like, okay, that's a bunch of craziness, you know. But he also had used his own example with himself where he grew up in Georgia, I think on like a peach farm or whatever. And he was one of the smaller guys out there, and it would get so hot every day somebody was passing out in the group, every day somebody's passing out. And they used to always pick on him and say that he'd be the guy to pass out. But he got through the summer, he never was the guy because he also was real sickly. But he had told them every morning before he went out there that he prayed that the Lord protected him out there through that, so that would not happen to him. They laughed at him when he told him that. By the end of that summer, he's the only guy who didn't pass out. So I'm seeing the application of what he's trying to teach. And so for myself, I had got to the point where I was like, well, if I'm going to tell people that I'm relying on the Lord for my healing, and also for myself, if I'm going to tell people I'm relying on the Lord for my healing, but I'm wearing this knee brace every day, am I mentally fully committed to what I'm saying? You get what I'm saying? And that's just for me personally. You know, I think there's different ways to go about it for different people, but for me, I did not feel like I could confidently completely say, okay, I put my trust in the Lord for this, knowing that every day I put this knee brace on, I'm making sure it's as tight as possible. Every loop goes where it needs to go. Right. And so we're at the beginning of spring practicing, because it kind of went on for a little bit. And so I told the coaches, I said, hey, you know, I've been doing some reading, studying my word, and this is something that I want to do. And I had talked about it with my mentor at the time, and he was all for it. You know, you got to take that step out on your faith. That's where your faith is leading you to. And so I went to went to my coaches with it, and they weren't having it. They were not, no, we don't feel comfortable with that. And I was like, well, because like, are you sure, you know, are you sure that's because they didn't know how to go about it. Someone was like, Are you sure that's God or is it you? And I'm like, you know, that's a good question. So how about this? Give me a week, I'm gonna go on a fast, and then I'll come back, you know. And they were not going for that either. They weren't going for that either. Surprise. Hey coach, let me miss a week of workouts and meetings to go on this full committed fast, because I do believe that this is something very serious. And uh they just they just weren't doing it. And to also add context to that is that because I remember I believe I had told you about this part when we first met. If I were to have been, I learned the lesson I learned from this ultimately was to be bold in my faith. But if I would have had the confidence to go on that fast while still participating in everything, that could have done something also. But in that moment, my lack of faith in myself to be able to handle the physicality of the weight room and then just the meetings and everything, because I wasn't playing at the time, but just being able to go in there and lift all the weight, the weights that I were able to do, I didn't think my body could sustain that with no food and just water for a week.

Pete 11:09

Right. And when you say faith in myself, you immediately have removed God from the equation.

Ke'von 11:14

Right. It was just, yeah. So I was like, just give me the week to fully remove myself and actually go about this fast the correct way. And they were not for that. So, you know, we go back and forth for about a week, and then, you know, I'm still at home studying on it and whatnot. And so I just decide, okay, I'm gonna tell them again. So I go to tell them again. They're still not enthused about the idea. So my coach says, Well, how about this? I'm gonna let the team trainer know, and then we'll tell them, they'll tell who they need to tell because of the responsibility side of it. Like basically they're saying, we're gonna tell who we need to so that we're covered and this is all on you.

Pete 11:52

And these coaches were Christians or c or claim to be, right?

Ke'von 11:55

They call themselves Christians, yes. Okay. I don't mean when I say they call themselves, I don't mean that it sounds like a snark, but they identified as Christians. Right, right, okay.

Pete 12:02

So it's not like they're you're talking about another faith or anything like that. It's something that they say they believe in.

Ke'von 12:08

Right. I would say I was talking about five coaches, four of them professed that they had faith in Christ, and one of them was a guy who's on the fence, kind of he's learning as he goes, kind of thing. Yeah. And so uh that yeah. So we I go to talk to them, they say that. I'm like, okay, so I'm actually excited, but I'm also a little nervous, you know, because my knee still swings when I walk sometimes. It'll bow out a little bit. But a part of that lesson that was being taught from Hagen's, one of the this isn't the verse, this is how you summarize it. Was he was talking about it? Abraham and his wife told us about to have a child, Sarah. Sarah. And I was like, Oh, you're too old. And then so essentially, consider not your own body, but your father in heaven that's gonna take care of that. Your body may tell you, you know, you're X amount of years old, you can't have a child, but the Lord has, you know, priority over all of that. And so that was what I was applying to myself. Now, granted, that may be out of context, but that's just where I was at the time, you know. So I'm like, okay, yeah, my knee may still be a little unstable, X, Y, and Z, but I'm not gonna consider myself. I'm just gonna put my faith in the Lord about this whole thing. And so, you know, they told me, hey, just give us two, you know, a day or two to let everybody know, and then you can do what you want to do. I said, All right. So I'm kind of getting excited, but I'm also nervous. And then uh that day comes. And so we had a scrimmage that day. And then I go to the coaches, I say, hey coach, I'm gonna take off the brace. You know, I'm just letting y'all know. They're like, no, we're not gonna do that. I said, well, coach, what do you mean? You told me to give you a couple days and I'd be good to go. It's on me. It's like, no, we're not gonna do that. I said, Coach, I'm not gonna wear this brace today. Like, I done already prayed about it, I done put it on the Lord, like I'm not, I'm not going back on that, you know. And so they all kind of came up and everybody's talking. It was like, well, why do you want to do it? I said, because I'm I am leaping out on my faith that the Lord is gonna cover me on this, because I really don't trust this knee brace the way that I trust God. And I said, I I have faith that the Lord's gonna heal me, or He has healed me. And then I remember one of the coaches said, I will have more faith if you wear your knee brace. I was like, like, what? And then uh he was like, Where where are you coming from with this? And so the verse that I used at the time was, I was like, well, you know, faith without works is dead. I can believe this, but I'm not working towards it or living in it. Do I really have the faith, or am I just saying it? Because remember, I was saying I'm wearing this knee brace and I'm claiming that I'm putting it on the Lord, but psychologically I can see and I'm aware that I'm wearing this knee brace.

Pete 14:55

Funny you say faith without works is dead. I think we're seeing a lot of teaching right now that's that's basically saying faith without works is not dead. And just a subtle, subtle teaching that's saying, just believe and do whatever you want, and it doesn't matter if you, you know, do anything for him or obey obey him or do anything that he says or read the Bible or pray or it just just matters if you believe, and I think that's unfortunately it's I think it's what's taking the church away in a lot of areas. We've talked about that a little bit, I think.

Ke'von 15:26

So he said he'd have more faith if I wore the knee brace, and so I'm like, are you saying you got more faith in the knee brace than God? Like that kind of caught me off guard. So that's when he asked me where's I was coming from, so I gave him the faith I work, so he said that. And they're like, I'm I'm tempted not to suit you up today, because I feel like you're gonna come out there without the knee brace. I know where this is going. And that's where the being bold in your faith verse comes into play. Because at that moment, when he said that, that's where I was not bold. That's where I was like, Alright, coach. Like, you know, they're getting them like, all right, I'll wear it. But just today. And I'm like, I'm just gonna wear it today, but I'm not gonna wear it after today. And they're like, all right, so after that, like I said, I wasn't bold, and I had gone back on the very thing I'd been praying about and wanting to fast about. So I I go walking, I walk around the whole campus and I'm just crying because and I'm asking the Lord, like, Lord, please forgive me for that. Like, I know I shouldn't have backpedaled on that. That's that was the wrong thing to do. And I felt really convicted about it. It was very heavy on me. And so I end up walking to the locker room before we started scrimmage, and I remember I was sitting in my locker and I'm holding the knee brace, and I'm looking at the knee brace and I'm talking to it. And I said, I know you're not what protects me. I know you're not what heals me. Like, this is this is made by man. That's all it is. You are doing nothing for me. And I had a running back, one of the running backs was sitting beside me. He was just kind of just staring at me, you know, but I didn't care about it. Right as I'm talking to my knee brace. Like, I get it. You're looking at me, but I'm like, this, I don't even care how it looks right now, because this is this is going real deep for me. And so, boom, I put the knee brace on. I go out there within the first drive. It was about a it was a sweep to the left. So running towards, you know, the curdome if we're on the football field. Hold the edge, rip off the block, I go to pursue. And one of the cornerbacks somehow got turned around and got blocked into me. Boom, I flipped right over my knee. As soon as he made contact, I knew exactly what I felt. I had toward my ACL again. And so I hit the turf, I pop up, and I'm heated. I am heated, I'm upset. And I was like, You guys, no, no, stop talking to me, and I'm just walking. And I'm like, Lord, why? Like, why? Why did that just happen? Why did that just happen? And I'm I'm just burning up angry. And I remember I was sitting there and I'm like, you know, that ain't nothing but the devil. I said, You're not gonna get me to go back to where I was. I'm like, you're not gonna make me lose faith in the Lord. I don't know why this happened, but I'm upset about it, but I'm not gonna let you turn me, you know. So I uh I just beeline to the locker room. I don't see a train or anything. I go to the locker room. I had my Bible stayed in my locker. So I'm so upset, I grabbed my Bible and I immediately go to the book of Job, start reading Job. Now, Job lost a lot more than the ACL and the meniscus.

Pete 18:29

Disclosure here, yeah.

Ke'von 18:30

Right. But because of how I felt, that's just that's just how frustrated I was. I'm like, I gotta understand this. I feel like I'm suffering right now. And so I sat in the stands for the rest of practice, nobody bothered me, and I was just reading through Job. And then now, so now I'm back at square one. I go through the surgery, I'm doing my mentorship with my campus pastor, and uh I was given some messages, and one thing that I never did was teach a vague or a broad lesson. I like to be specific so we actually can get a message across. And a lot of guys came up to me after a few of them. It's like, hey, dude, I needed that, you know. And I'm like, it wasn't me, it's still it's the Lord. This was already written. I just gave it to you, you know, because I was really just trying to stay away from that pumping your own head up thing and staying in the space that I was at as far as how my relationship was and just building on that. And so I didn't want to derail myself when I already was dealing with the ACL tear. And so after I toured the second time, I said, Well, now they gotta let me go on that fast. And so once I got home and I got over myself, I'm sitting at the house and I uh was sitting in my living room, and I've told you this before. I said, you know, I don't know if it was you could see it as a prayer of doubt. You could see it as just a prayer for an answer. But what I said was, I said, Lord, I'm going on this fast. I don't know how long it's gonna be, and I don't know what I'm looking for. But I pray that you make me vigilant when you show me what it

Fasting And The Lighthouse Sign

Ke'von 20:09

is that I'm wanting. I say, Lord, I just need to know you're there. And that's where I left it. And so I'm gonna say it came about day three. I was sitting on my couch, and the way I learned the fast is on real isolating, you know. I'm staying at the house. Now I'll go do stuff where I need to, but if I'm watching TV, it's only Bible related or a Bible study or a sermon. If I'm on my phone, I'm not on really on my phone. If I'm in the Bible app and you're reading your Bible, it's no, you know, secular music or anything like that. It's just very intentional. Well, at this moment, I was laying on my couch and I think I was like scrolling on Instagram and I'm like, dude, I'm getting off point. You know, I'm like, I'm getting off point, I need to get out the house. So I grabbed my Bible and I said, I'm gonna go sit on my front porch and read my Bible. And I have a chair out there. I'm like, okay, that's what I'm gonna do. Grab my Bible, I walk up my front door, didn't break strident. I kept walking around the house. And as I was walking around the house, I said to myself, I said, No, I just said I was gonna read on the front porch. What am I heading to the backyard for? I'm like, whatever. I'll just go read in the backyard. I sit down, you know, I'm looking at the trees and stuff. When it starts blowing, I'm just like, this is the Lord's creation, this is nice. And then I'm looking, and I have a it was a an ant hill. I have a dish satellite kind of thing in my backyard. Now I've sat back there a lot, doing a lot of nonsense, you know, and I never once ever seen that back there. Well, this day I go back there, and as I'm looking at the trees and stuff, I see this anthill that then grew about a foot up that pole. And I see a little piece of porcelain, I'll call it, sticking out of it. And when I looked, and I'm telling I can only see about a centimeter. I've showed you. The uh placard, I believe. Only about a centimeter of it. I say, now Lord, it'd be crazy if that's the very thing that I've been praying for. I'm looking at an anthill right now. You know, I'm looking at an anthill. And so I look at it, I just go down there and I knock some dirt off of it, and I see the lighthouse. I see a lighthouse and it's on some rocks over the water. And then first verse, I'm like, okay, the man who built this house on the sand versus the man who built this house with a solid foundation. That's the first thing that comes to mind. So I'm like, okay, maybe that's the message. Just keep building my foundation on the Lord. Well, then I'm seeing that there's also more to what's covered. So then I wipe the rest of that off. And I forgot what the the verse itself is as far as the reference, but it was for I'm the Lord thy God, and whoever walks with me shall not walk in darkness. And I was like, This is crazy. Because you reference back to our torment so the first time, what did I say verbatim? If I tear my ACL again, I'm going into a very dark place. And what gave that so much validity for me was that a few years prior I had watched a sermon in my dorm, and the guy was talking about the different ways that the Lord talks to us. The number one way being the Bible. You know. Then he led into what some of us would call a coincidence through other people, you know, some the angels like we see in the Bible. And he had a few, I think he had about five or more total. Dreams and visions. Dreams and visions, right. And so but the Bible was number one, his word, scripture. Amen. And so what gave that so much validity for me was the fact that it wasn't that I prayed this prayer and I'm watching a TV and the characters on the TV is like, oh, you're gonna be good. And I'm like, oh, that's my sign. It's the fact that I prayed this prayer and I found scripture addressing exactly what I had said and gave me the guidance that I needed to get through that time. And so from there it took off. Like I was rejuvenating, you know. And so that day, I'll say that day is when I ended the fast because I knew that was the answer that I needed. You know, I hadn't committed two X amount of days that's when I ended it in so let me read about fasting real quick.

Pete 24:18

Matthew six, sixteen, when you fast, do not look somber as the hypocrites do, for they disfigure their faces to show others they are fasting. Truly I tell you, they have received their reward in full. But when you fast, put oil on your head and wash your face, so that it will not be obvious to others that you are fasting, but only to your father who is unseen, and your father who sees what is done in secret will reward you. It says when you fast here. I think fasting is probably the most forgotten spiritual discipline,

What Jesus Means By Secret Fasting

Pete 24:50

you know, and you've talked about it a lot. I mean, it's something that I do. I think I probably need to do more. Just had some awesome experiences with God through through fasting. And I think people just throw it out the window. There's some even congregations that say it's not for today, although it's everywhere. And Jesus saying pretty clearly, when you fast. I mean, this is not if you fast, it's when you fast. And then it's misused, I think. Also, I remember this was years ago, a pastor was fasting and had to go to a conference or something with his kids. He was a youth pastor, had to go to a conference where they were going to be eating. And he broke his fast in the middle of his fast because of this passage talking about doing it in secret. And he said if he would have done it in front of his kids, then he would have been, you know, not obeying the word of God. And I just like about lost it because this was a pastor, and this is clearly about the heart. It would have actually been a blessing to his kids to tell them that that's what he was doing and why he wasn't eating. It wouldn't be to bring glory to himself, it would have been to bring glory to God. And I just think it's funny in Matthew 5, right before what we just read, it talks about giving, praying, and fasting in Matthew 6 and doing it, you know, privately. But it's about the heart. It's not about not telling anyone. Because just look back in Matthew 5, and it says, You are the salt of the earth, but if the salt loses its saltiness, how can it be made salty again? It's no longer good for anything except be thrown out and trampled underfoot. You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead, they put it on it, standing it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven. So the difference is who is getting the glory here? Right. And I mean, you're telling these stories not to take credit for you know for what you're doing with fasting, but to give God the glory for what he did and how he put that in your path. And I think that's lost a lot in our culture.

Ke'von 26:57

I do I gotta put myself out there now because that part of what you're saying was something that I was doing where when I would fast, I wouldn't tell anybody. You know, I go out to because I guess I didn't want to make it obvious or seclude myself from my friends too high degree. Like I said, at first I started off that way, then as I kind of got a better understanding, so they're like, hey, we're going out to eat for so-and-so's birthday. I'm like, all right, I'll go, and then I'll order a water. You know, and they're like, Oh, are you hungry? No, man, why don't you want to eat? It's like I'm just not feeling it, you know. Because the way I had interpreted that originally was that when it says, for they have already received the reward, I always took it as that reward was the attention you got from deciding to tell everybody that you're fasting. Right. You know, and I'm like, that's not the reward that I want from this. So, hey guys, I just want some water. Right.

Pete 27:48

Well, and there's a time to not tell, and there's a time to tell, and like that's between that individual person and God. I mean, it's like it's not I don't know, it's just not cut and dry. It's not, it's something the Holy Spirit has to guide us in those conversations. Because I I mean I remember, you know, the same thing. It's like I wouldn't eat and then they'd ask me, and sometimes I would say, well, I'm fasting, and sometimes I wouldn't, but it's like anonymous giving too. I mean, uh, people use anonymous giving because if they can do it anonymously, nobody will ever ask them. Like, especially people who have a lot of money. They like to do anonymous giving so that nobody will ever ask them to give. So it's like the motive behind anonymous giving is not clean, it's not good. It's like you just don't want anybody to know that you're a giver, you know, and that's not good. So it just depends on the heart here, and and God knows our motives in our heart, but it's definitely not saying that you're not to tell anybody ever. I mean, we're supposed to share our stories with our brothers like we're doing now, and that's bringing glory to God here and not not anyone else, and that's what we're trying to do on this podcast, honestly. So when did we like we met not long after this, I think. Let's let's get into that story because that's a pretty cool story, I think. I know you kind of got invited and then didn't come and then just kind of randomly showed up to a Bible study that I was leading, and just kind of tell us about how that how that came to be.

Ke'von 29:09

Okay, yeah. So uh we probably met around September or October, somewhere around there, maybe later. But yeah, so I had a friend that I was working with, and uh he

How Two Invitations Led To Mentorship

Ke'von 29:21

was dating a girl and then introduced me to her friend, and then uh who was that?

Pete 29:26

He's saying friend here. I know who the friend was. I think that friend was my daughter, wasn't it?

Ke'von 29:34

Okay, so so you met my daughter, okay. And so like we all hung out and stuff, like went to what is it, Talakwa? They got like a little river floating and all that stuff. So it was pretty cool. And uh, as we were getting to know each other, like one of the things she asked me was like, okay, I see you have a faith. Like, what are your goals with your walk? And I was like, you know, I really basically ensure I want to leave my house like a man of God is supposed to, right? And uh I remember leading up to that conversation, she'd tell me a lot about you and how you ran a house. And I remember saying to myself, this didn't flatter you. Probably it's not please, please don't. I remember actually like the different stuff she'd tell me, you know, some stuff you'd be like, yeah, and so I was like, I just wish you didn't. I'm like, in my head, I said, it sounds like he runs his house like a man of God. And as I said it to myself, she said it herself. I said, Oh wow. And then so then that's when she had asked me, like, well, so how do you envision yourself basically in the home? Where do you go with just having that walk? What do you plan to do with it, you know? And so, you know, I told her basically exactly what I just said. I'm gonna leave my house like a man of God. I'm really big about having a son, you know, and that's my family. And so she told me that she's like, Well, I think you should go to my dad's Bible studies. I said, Well, you know, when is it? Where is it? She goes, it's five in the morning. That loses most people. You know, it's five in the morning and it's at Aldridge. I said, and it's all thought real quick. I said, five in the morning, and it's at a coffee shop. I said, that sounds pretty personal. I don't want to just jump in on that and let alone jump in on it off of your invitation to something that's, you know, private. And I was already going to Bible study at a at a church, and I had to stop going because of there are times in the Bible studies where we were getting so far removed from the word, and we were just talking strict politics. And I mean, the JFK files came up one time. I don't know what that got to do with my salvation. You know. But we were getting some rabbit trails, huh? Right, right. We were getting far off. And I just I just didn't like that. You know, I have no problem with when I go to church and a real pressing issue that is on a political level that does affect the church and things we can pray about. I completely understand that.

Pete 31:56

And this was a you say the Bible said, well, this was a bigger group, right? This wasn't a small group.

Ke'von 32:01

Yeah, no, this is this was a bigger group. This is a bigger group.

Pete 32:03

I think what one people don't understand is there's a group is not a group. I mean, Bible studies groups, recovery groups, there's just so many variants, variables, I guess you could say. And big groups are great, events are great, but they're not really where you get down to relationship, discipleship, confession, and and strangely enough, I think this was a bigger group where where one of our guys, my I believe it was Mike, saw K-Bon and invited him to how that happened? Yeah. Yep. Invited him to our small group. And so I think big groups are great for catching fish, so to speak, but you're never really going to get down to the meat or relationship or even confession of sin, really, in the bigger groups. And sometimes they turn into more social things than they do actually, that kind of or even just random rabbit trails. Although I have to confess, we in our groups get on rabbit trails. That's one of the hardest things about facilitating groups for me, and is when to cut someone off or just just try to divert the story back to scripture because guys just sometimes don't have a lot of friends or just want to tell the story, and the story turns into a long story about nothing. Right. You know, pretty much.

Ke'von 33:16

So And just to add to when uh Michael invited me, this is another instance where you see how the Lord moves. So the initial invitation from your daughter I had declined to go to the Bible study. And that was like fast forward a year. Yeah, this was this is down the road. Okay, this isn't several months after. Yes, several months after the fact. So that was the first invitation. I declined that. Then I'm at Brahms, I'm at Brahms, and I was wearing a tank top, and I have a verse on my shoulder. It says, For God is faithful, he'll not allow you to be tempted beyond what you can bear. And I had got that around the time I had my son doing a lot of nonsense, but he always provided a way out. But so I was sitting there and I had the tattoo could be seen, and the guy goes, comes up to me, he says, Hey man, I like your tattoo. And I got like three or four, not a lot. So I'm kind of like looking. He's like the Bible verse. I was like, Oh man, thanks. And he goes, Hey, I actually go to Bible study over here. I want to invite you. You should come, you know. Like, okay. So I'm like, all right, cool. At that point, I hadn't been going to Bible study. And so the fact that I'm now at Brom's and somebody invites me, I'm like, you know, I need to go. This is the Lord now using people to get to me. Yeah, yeah. And so I go to that Bible study. Now I get to that Bible study, and the guy who invited me isn't even there. And so to me, I'm like, who invites somebody to Bible study and doesn't even show up to the Bible study. And that's Mike, right? Well, no, that's where I met Mike. It wasn't Mike who invited me.

Pete 34:48

So the guy at okay, okay, okay, yeah, I'm getting on. The guy at Brahms.

Ke'von 34:52

Yeah, I don't even know his name. Yeah. I don't think I've seen him say.

Pete 34:55

He invited you and then wasn't there. Right. But I think when you came to the other one, Mike invited you, and Mike wasn't there that week.

Ke'von 35:01

He wasn't. Right. And so I'll get into what I believe that was too. That's why I said the Lord is He's so in control of the whole thing. So the guy at Brahms invites me, I go, he's not there. So now I'm just at Bible study, right? They're teaching, I'm listening, I'm asking some questions. I ask a lot of questions. You know, some people only want to ask one or two. If it don't make sense or if I don't understand, I'm going, hey, you know, explain. Yeah, that's true, you do. So uh I like it. I was doing that, and then uh we got to the end, and then Michael came up to me. He was like, hey man, you know, it seemed like you're on the right path. You got a good head on your shoulders. And I think I can see you might want to be in the group where some guys can really pour into you. Like you say, on a more personal level. I was like, okay, he was like, I want to invite you to a Bible study. And then he tells me it's 5 a.m. at Aldrich. Now, as we discussed, this is months apart from the first time this was brought up. So I'm just like, all right. I'm like, it sounds a little familiar, but I'm like, okay, I'll go. Well, I get up, I go to that Bible study. Once again, the guy who invited me isn't there.

Pete 36:07

That's you, Mike. You're listening, Mike. That's you.

Ke'von 36:10

I'm like, man, wait, what is with this? What are people up to out here, man? So um I'm sitting there, and then I'm just looking around. I'm like, man, something about this just feels like like familiar or odd, you know. And then Peter's sitting at the front of the table, and as I had said, your daughter had told me a little bit about you in just regular conversation. And so it comes to a point where you're like, you know, I was really into sports at a time, love softball, coached my daughter's softball team. I said, that's that's her dad. I'm like, I still ended up at his Bible study.

Pete 36:47

So you came out knowing and you figured it out by I I mentioned something about softball. Okay, yeah.

Ke'von 36:52

And so that was just a full circle thing. So now I'm like, I'm I'm clearly supposed to be here because I very much tried not to be here, you know. And this is where I said the Lord played a part in all of that. One from the initial tour, I still ended up, no matter how I tried to get off path. And then it was the fact that the way I look at the people who invited me, not being there when I got there, was because the Lord wanted to ensure my intention attention was on him, not on the relation. Okay, this guy invited me, so I sit beside him, and now I just got a new buddy. You know, like you said, social hour. Oh, this is where I go meet my friend from Brahms. Right. I'm at a Bible study with no social connection, so now I'm just listening to the word. Now I'm able to be engaged. Now, through that engagement, another person is able to, you know, get a feel for my character and then invite me to another Bible study. Now, at that Bible study, okay, he's not there. I'm thinking it's the same thing. I'm not there sitting by him, thinking about him. Now I'm just listening to the word. I'm having to pay attention. I have no social ties here.

Pete 37:52

Right.

Ke'von 37:53

And then that's where I meet you. And I'm going back, like I said, from hearing how you ran your home and how that was going. I was like, you know, that's when I asked him, I'm like, hey, could you mentor me?

Pete 38:06

Yeah, you came. Is that was that the first time you came or the second time?

Ke'von 38:09

It may have been the second time.

Pete 38:10

I want to say it was the second time you came.

Ke'von 38:12

It was it was about the second time. Now, I had put it together, I believe, either in that Bible study that morning or a little bit after. But that had happened before the first meeting that we had when I actually came up after after the study and said, Hey, would you mind working with me or mentoring?

Pete 38:32

I don't forget the words you use, which and of course I'm in when somebody asked me that. So and then we set up a time to meet. I think we met at Roasters, and I remember that pretty vividly. The first thing you said is like, before we even start, I want to make sure you understand that I know your daughter. This is not about your daughter. I'm not trying to, you know, you went into all of that. And I was super impressed by that, to be honest. I mean, it's like it's kind of like even our story with Jared, how he came in and said, you know, hey, I can't do this yard next to me, I'm a drug addict. I can't do this yard you you hired me to do, I'm a drug addict. And those type of I'm just kind of putting this together as we're talking, honestly, but those kind of encounters with men are rare for me. And I think just that transparency and that truth, I'm in for that, you know. So that was that was cool.

Ke'von 39:20

Yeah. And I appreciate obviously how well you t handled it, the situation without any awkwardness or anything, because obviously you don't know how that's gonna go when you be a guy's like, hey, you know. So it was like, I kind of I had talked to my dad. I'm like, dad, I mean, the guy teaches good stuff. I hear good things about him through the example of how he's leading his home. I'd hate to go in here and that be with derails, what I think could actually be a good found, like foundation. You know. But then also my dad was like, but if he doesn't, that's the foundation a relationship was built on, you know. And so it's one of those things where you can't try to control everything, you gotta put it in God's hand once again. He could have, in my opinion, he could have reacted however he reacted, and I would have viewed either way as justified or at least understandable, you know. But he didn't take it the latter. And so I think from there, you know, that's where we end up on the uh mission trips and whatnot, the one-on-one meetings and everything. I think we met probably about five years.

Pete 40:24

Started meeting weekly there quite a bit. Yeah. Then you just can't continue coming to Bible study, and then you started coming to some recovery groups with me and teaching, help helping me with that. And just kind of grew from there. Tell me, I know when we first met, I remember your struggle with with marijuana and and that. Tell me tell them everybody about that, because I know that's a big thing anymore. I hear a lot of times that people are sober, but the but weed doesn't count, or you know, or whatever, whether you have your card or you don't have your card or you know, that kind of thing. Right.

Ke'von 40:54

So I started smoking about my junior year of high school, I would say. It's like my junior year. It was an excuse. We got our butt whooped by a team, got 60 points put on us.

Marijuana, Conviction, And Willful Sin

Ke'von 41:09

And it was a very physical 60 points. So uh I get back to campus and the guy's like, man, what are we finna do? You know, I'm saying with my friends, they're like, finna go smoke, and I'm like, all right, I'll tag along. And uh, went with them, I smoked with him that time, then again, and then basically that led from I'll probably say 2020 to maybe about 2023. I was smoking every day. Like, when I say every day, I legitimately mean every day. And it was to the point of I would wake up, I had class at 8 a.m. Let's say I woke up at 7. I would see how high I could get before class at 8 o'clock. Wow. That was that was and this is this is every day I this is every day. I would see how high I could get before class at 8 o'clock. Then I go to class, and this is where you get to, you know, reasoning it or trying to downplay it. I was the most interactive guy in the class with the professor. You know, and just to even add to it, I was studying criminal justice at the time. So yeah, I'm I'm in class, booted, talking to the professor about laws and drug control and whatnot. But and then, you know, like you said, some people don't view it as this X, Y, and Z. I knew it was wrong, but I was doing it. And so that was that was a daily thing up until like I said, about 2023. And then when I started, so I had started my mentorship, but as I got that was leads into the ACL tears, right? Yep. So going up into 2023, that's the first time I toured my ACL. That's where I really started taking my mentorship a lot more seriously to the next level when I had all that time now. So at around that same time I was wanting to be baptized because as far as my parents had told me, to my understanding, I had never been baptized, but I think my grandma may have baptized me when I was in preschool. You know, you can kind of uh formulate memories that aren't real.

Pete 43:11

Yeah.

Ke'von 43:12

Think that you did it enough. And so, as far as my parents were concerned, I had never been baptized before. And I had been reading my Bible around that time, one of the books we were reading, and it was it was basically you do it out of obedience. It's not baptism isn't what saves you.

unknown 43:27

Right.

Ke'von 43:27

It's just a step out of obedience. It's just like you get married and you put on the wedding ring. Well, the wedding ring isn't what makes you married. It's that symbol.

Pete 43:36

Yeah, I think baptism is so misunderstood and mistought so often. It's like we go to two extremes. One is one of those extremes is it's required, you you have to do it or you can't go to heaven. And the other extreme is uh just do it whenever you want. You know, like immediate act of obedience is the the way I like to put it. I mean, if you just read the book of Acts, it's just clear. I mean, it's just so clear. And ran into that quite a bit. a bit honestly in in groups and talks and and we have you know even guys come into groups that had this belief of it being required for salvation and over the years of just straight study of scripture they've they've changed that position to to see that that was an error on on the on the part of the place they went.

Ke'von 44:16

Right. And I'm gonna go back real quick because I don't want to downplay the extent of that I was smoking just to say every day in that thing before 8 a.m I would smoke as much as I could before eight o'clock go to class I get done with all my classes that are back to back at 11. I go back to my room smoke again before team meetings get done meetings are about at 2. So then I go to meetings at 2 get out of practice round 6 we have meetings at like 637. As soon as I got out of practice I go to my room shower smoke before meetings go to meetings? Yeah get out of meetings and once I got out of meetings I'm doing homework and I'm smoking while I do my homework once I'm done with that I'm now smoking until I go to sleep. Like I was and that was norm normalized. Like no one would have seen me doing that and be like you're a trippin' that was that's kind of the norm. Right. You know so that's that's how that was going. Now I'm doing this and I'm also in that mentorship as I was telling you right that wasn't one of your accountability things I'm assuming it wasn't because I didn't want to stop if you can't you gave the stuff that you thought you might be able to work on but not that. But that was something that I knew you know we can't can't lighter ourselves. I think sometimes people get uncomfortable with voicing I know this is a problem but I don't want to stop doing it. I don't think people like to say or acknowledge that so instead they err on the side of the not telling anybody. Right. Or hiding this is what I should stop but have no intention.

Pete 45:50

You're just wasting yours and the other person's time it's a difference between willful sin and and unwillful sin. For me it's like you know Psalm 19 I'm gonna look this up real quick keep your servant also from willful sins may they not rule over me. Then I will be blameless and cleansed of great transgression. I just think that's so interesting. Blameless here if you're keeping yourself from willful sins I don't understand a person who claims Christ and just continues in willful sin. Like it it doesn't make sense I think they really need to examine themselves to whether or not they really have been changed.

Ke'von 46:28

And so I'm glad you brought that point up because that's where this goes into with the uh smoking so 23 first ACL tear really step up my uh discipleship my mentor is very adamant once I told him I wasn't sure if I've been baptized he was very adamant about getting me baptized as soon as possible all right and he was a Baptist too right yes yes so right so I will say I will say this I don't know how other people out there may feel about it. So I grew up in a Baptist church but a different demographic right and so the way I seen my Baptist church run versus how I've seen it run out here totally different. A lot of differences in the quote Baptist name that's for sure yeah he uh he was like when you get baptized and I'm like mm-mm I don't I was I don't think that's how that works I'm not gonna do that and like every time I go to this guy or I go to the church that he was at they're baptizing somebody so like I remember like I'm like dad like they'll baptize anybody out here like they just as soon as they're on a bit they take them right to that water and that was crazy to me to me it was right because I was to me I had a misunderstanding essentially everywhere I'm thinking you're gonna be baptized I think there should be some type of formal process almost in a sense like let's make sure you know what you're doing.

Pete 47:46

The early church actually gosh I'd have to look back here but I think it started fairly early they they took people through like a catechism I believe it was and were they disciple before baptism. And at first when I studied that I'm like that makes sense you know like I really it resonated with me but then I go back and I read Acts and I go, you don't see that in Acts when you see baptism. I believe baptism. Now I also have heard guys that have been baptized like baptized like double digit times. And I'm like I don't understand that either you know like I know me, I was baptized twice, but the first time when I was a teenager I it was just clearly revealed to me when I was in my thirties that that was I wasn't following I wasn't a believer at that point. And so to me it that didn't mean anything. It was just getting wet. And so you know I it was with my daughter when I was in my thirties when I got baptized. And but there's nothing in my walk that would make me need to get baptized again. Whether I fall off on something or you know walk away I don't I don't see a reason or even in scripture to to get baptized again now that I have when I was following.

Ke'von 48:55

So but anyway so you got did you get baptized or was I I ended up getting baptized but I had some stipulations that I placed on it. As crazy as that may sound okay so I definitely time framed it in a sense it wasn't like 30 days I'll do it it was more so I would get baptized when I trust my own commitment kind of thing. Like I had put it on myself it was more so how I said I was still smoking and I didn't want to that's the type of stuff I did not want to continue doing and then holler hey baptize me next week and the following week I'm gonna be doing the willful sin thing kind of stuff. Yeah. So it was kind of on that side of stuff and then I also was like and if I'm gonna be baptized I want to be baptized at my church back home. I don't want to be baptized out here. Right. That was just once again a personal thing. So you know we're going through it we're going through it and then I even had talked to another pastor about it or campus minister and he taught me the other side he was like well I understand you want to be baptized but I don't let you know it's not necessary. You know you don't have to do that to be a follower and so he had taught me that side as well. Now while I did uh that blows my mind that somebody would say that yeah and it's right you know but I respected the fact that he even went out to teach like hey this is not necessary. Right. But for me it was from my level of understanding and my conviction I need to do it out of obedience. Not that I think it saves me. I think he was saying that from the aspect of me believing that it's it's what saves me. And so I was like right I want to do this out of obedience and I feel that conviction so whether you're telling me it's okay if I don't or not I can't do that with a clear conscience. And so my baptism date ends up getting you know plotted or whatever and I'm like okay so now we got the time leading up to the baptism well time leading up to the baptism guess what I start doing smoking. Back to it smoking right and but there was there was a huge difference now right so it started did you feel conviction when you were doing this tonight? Yeah that's what I might go and so I had a friend that I was smoking with and uh usually like I said I just told you what the daily schedule was like and so I had an extremely high tolerance because I wasn't just using like the you know the rolling papers I was using a bong. Anybody who's ever smoked understands that if you were to smoke a joint and you put that same amount in a bong is going to be two totally different levels smaller than that amount that you put in a joint it's ridiculous. And so I said that because I've had people try to say no man that that was just strong no I promise you that wasn't the case I'm at this friend's house and I think my baptism's like two weeks away right I go over there and then I'm smoking. Well as I'm smoking I just start like feeling this internal like panic that I've never felt before and I was just like man what's going on and so I'm sitting there and then all of a sudden I just start like completely doubting my following of my faith like I was just like dude you're you're not you're not actually doing this you're not fully committed to it you know and I'm going I'm going. And so uh it starts that's what made me start panicking. And so I run out of his house like everybody's here and I say hey bro I gotta go I gotta get home because I'm thinking I'm finna lose my mind and I get in my house and as I get in my house I have uh all my Bible study notes and all this stuff I ever did I keep it in my little armrest on my couch I had and so I lift it up and I take all these notes out and I'm just reading all these different Bible studies in the sermon.

Pete 52:40

I'm reading I'm like I know I believe all this stuff but why don't I feel like it you know like I was like I know like I'm reading I'm like yes that's yes that's the word yes that's it right there yes yes but why don't I feel like it well it was because my actions weren't following what I was saying that I believed so that's that's where that conflict that internal conflict had came you know so you had you physically had sickness or feeling it was physical sweating or you know yeah definitely it was just sweating it was and I just multiple times this is like a three time thing that's happened to me too I mean it's happened to me one time when I was kind of lying or deceiving or not even lying but deceiving or I felt like I was deceiving. I just got physically ill even my stomach and and I had a brother recently ask me this question exactly about this that he had something like this where he just got physically ill although he wasn't ill and and he wasn't sure whether it was something he was supposed to do or not supposed to do and we talked about how the only times I've experienced that was because of sin. Now he was thinking and and maybe me too was maybe that it was his flesh trying to get him not to do something. So making him sick like he was making himself sick because he was supposed to do what was uncomfortable right and so we had that conversation about which one it wasn't I'm like I'm not answering that for you brother you got to take that one to God you know right so I was sitting there I believe this stuff or at least I'm agreeing with it because you know if you believe it you're walking as you believe it but I'm like I'm agreeing with this stuff why don't I feel like I believe this stuff as I was saying and I'm like it's my actions and so that uh that led to me to stop right it was real bad.

Ke'von 54:29

And so because of how much I smoked I have friends who come oh man I'm like no bro I'm good. Well that's like red flags I'm like why don't you want to do this? I'm like man I'm cool on it like the Lord dealing with me you know once you bring up the Lord and people got drugs in their hands. Man you all right bro you got it right you want to leave my listen I hate I'm not trying to be that guy but I can't lie to you. That's what's happening with me you know and so that might have been a little bit further back because like I said there was another instance in there. It may have been after the baptism I'm not like I said I'm not gonna lie to you guys it may have been after the baptism because like I said there were three total instances that one was for a fact before the baptism. Right. Well then the second time comes around so now we're talking so it had to have been after so now we're talking probably I get baptized and we're talking about a three month gap or so right maybe longer. And I have a friend come into town I had uh pack some stuff up and there was weed in the stuff I packed up and my buddy was going to grab some of his stuff that was packed up with mine and because I wasn't trying to smoke anymore I said hey when you go get that the stuff there is a baggie in there you can have it he's like are you sure? I'm like dude you can have I don't need none of that like take it he's like alright so he takes it well of course he brings some back to my house and he's like bro woo woo he's rolling up and I'm like he smokes and I'm like all right bro we can do it just not in the house. So I go in the shed we're in there I hit that thing one time. You know how a target looks has the red, white red then the bullseye. Well imagine you're looking in front of you right no lines but then everything you're looking at begins to circle on a different level of that target but opposite direction. So the first tier let's say that's like this much of your peripheral rotating to the right second tier to the left and I'm like what is this? And so I'm sitting there then that same feeling that I had where like just that con that conviction is all it was a conviction that I had on that couch. I felt it right there. Well here was the thing like I said like I've smoked a lot where I've been high and you can usually talk yourself off that just sit down. I was scared because one before I started smoking I was like I hope this doesn't happen again because it was a that was the kind of fear I was locked into it. There was nothing I could do to get out of how I felt no matter what it was like I want to say it was a very uncomfortable feeling that I could not escape until essentially like I addressed it or whatever. So then it happened again and this time I only had hit the thing one time. So I'm like I know it's not that and I have this friend of mine her name's Kennedy I've known her since like sixth grade and I I might have told you about her but as far as like the friends that I have my age group she's one of the most consistent people I've seen walk her faith out you know and just quick backtrack when I had toured my ACO the second time when I was in about to read the book of Job she happened to call me we don't talk on a daily basis we don't talk on a monthly basis extremely sporadic maybe three times a year if that right she happened to call me right at that moment where I was going to grab my Bible and she was like hey what are you doing? I said man this just happened and I'm about to read she said you know it's crazy I was gonna go into 15 minutes of prayer and the Lord put on my heart to call you so we're gonna pray about this and I'll let you go on. So that happens man so this same person after I was out there smoking like a one post so I sit on the couch and I'm just like Lord like I get it's like okay I get it I I don't need to be doing this you know that I'm not adjoining it blah ze blah and then after I like pray or whatever I get a text and it's it's from her and once again she's like hey I'm just checking on you how's life going what's going on with you so then I tell her I'm like this is what I have going on. So she prayed for me. And like I said we've had multiple instances where like I said when I say there's no consistent conversation there I don't want to get off track but just another example there's a point where I was reading this is with the I'm gonna say the danger but when you go into Bible study without a mentor and somebody to give you real understanding you can kind of get off on some stuff on your own right and one of the things I saw that fascinated me was the Nazareth vow you know don't cut your hair you don't drink alcohol you don't come across dead bodies because then you're unclean you don't cut your data all that I'm like oh that sounds cool. And I'm like Samson the story of Samson who doesn't like a guy slaying a whole bunch of men with the jawbone of a donkey you know it's like yeah I want to be like that guy. And so I was pretty much about to commit myself to it. You know I talked to my dad about it and he was like son I think you need to read some more my dad's never just shoved me in the direction. He's always just you need to keep looking into that which is I think why I've had the the transition that I've had throughout my faith in the development is because he never tried to push me in a direction for me to fight it. He's just kind of been the guardrail so to speak right and that's why you ask a lot of questions You seemed very spiritually grounded even at times when you feel like you might not have believed you you were like why? Like I gotta go read my Bible. I gotta pray what said that I think it's upbringing you know I don't know the verse off the top of my head but essentially it says you bring a child up in the way and they won't stray from it. Right. Now it's the way you go about doing it obviously because some people are brought up in a way that causes them to stray. Well my father never Bible thumped us as people say and like I said I had to do those kids he's always kept it very honest with us this is what you're supposed to do but I know you're gonna go do this instead you know but we always knew what was right. And also seeing my father exemplify it you know he was a person who taught me how to fast and it wasn't even in person. He taught me over the phone. And so because I had the understanding of where base was when I got away from it I knew where I needed to go back to you know you always had like that compass in a sense to lead you back to it. And that honestly I wanna Peter come in that's one of the that's what had me so fascinated in Demons that actually myself that actually is what led to Demons being a huge topic for me and once saved always saved being a huge topic for me because as you observed I had my times where I did not behave like I believed but then I'm also still spiritually practicing you know and because of my own experiences people can still boil it down to what they choose to I believe a person can always come back to the Lord. Oh yeah yeah yeah she had so probably about the day where I was about to basically make the prayer Lord this is what I'm gonna promise my life off to she calls me and like I said there's no talking before these there's no talking I'm talking six plus months between these it's always right before something crazy I'm about to do and she's like hey what are you up to I said man you know I've been reading my Bible da da da She's like what you been reading I said about the Nazareth vow and I think I'm gonna do it and she was like what I was like nah I think I'm gonna do it she's like you don't have to do that that's not she's like you don't know and you know so she enlightened me on that and I'm like thank you because I was about to put myself in a very peculiar situation with that one you know but so anyway coming back forward so that second time happens I get that conviction again and then uh at that I stopped now we're probably going into the new year so probably like 2024 now and uh so that was like June that second instance was still like the summertime or no Thanksgiving it's about Thanksgiving so then 2024 comes around so it's been a couple months I had went to Wintersmith Park right I'm sitting in my car and I'm smoking. So now I've gone from smoking every day to I've smoked three times in like an eight month span or something like that right still doing it but it was progress. You know it's like you're getting there. I'm sitting in Wintersmith Park I'm in my car and I'm about to smoke again and it was something that I had always done I've always been over there never been bothered or nothing like that. So I'm sitting in my car and there's this guy jogging by right and so like I see the guy and I have very dark tint on my windows if you ever just looked at it. Yeah it was about 12% I get pulled over for it.

The Stranger Who Stopped The Smoke

Ke'von 1:03:14

But he's looking my back window is 5% that's fact my back window is 5% tint he's staring through my car and looking at me through my rear view. Like as I turn and saw him then I look up he's looking at me through my windshield or through my back windshield dead in my eyes as I'm looking the review and I'm like and he's like he's jogging and he's just running past my car and he never breaks eye contact with me right and here it is I'm about to smoke or I had just started smoking but it's very early into it and he's just staring at me. So I'm like who is this guy? Why is he staring at me like this? Like this guy think he is so I started getting upset. But I knew I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you what I assume it was but I've I felt conviction again in that from this person who was running by but they're staring directly into my eyes and they can't see my eyes you get what I'm saying and so the guy runs by but even after he's he left I'm still like real messed up about it. So I get out of my car I said I'm gonna go find him I you're gonna stare in my car you think you are man I get out of my car and we're talking about Wintersmith right it's a loop you aren't gonna get very far on that loop when you just ran past somebody's vehicles when I get out of my car and kind of run over the hill I don't see him so now I get back to my car I get in my car I drive that thing three times and I don't see him again now this isn't like I waited 20 minutes right this is I'm looking at him stare at me okay he just went over the hill I'm getting out of my car no I didn't like that he's not there where did he run to that fast I get in my car I drive around the whole thing I don't see him and what I think it was personally because I had talked about how the different way the Lord talks to us either and you feel free to interject on this you have that was an individual who was being used by the Lord or very well an angel where you know they present themselves in different ways I'll say or people are used in different ways. My point being is that that person knew I was doing something in that car I had no business and when I went to look for them shortly after they were nowhere to be found I'm not finna say that guy ran a three minute mile you know and so after that instance I was kind of like all right I'm I I get it I need to stop this. And so from that point what is it 2026 almost two years or it just past two years actually so uh yeah I just I have not had a taste for it I haven't don't like being around it it's uh it's awesome It's pretty bad. Not bad, like bad to that filter, but I'm saying the amount that I don't want anything to do with it is pretty extreme.

Pete 1:06:08

On the angel thing, I always think of Hebrews, this really motivates me to even talk to people sometimes when I just kind of meditate on it. It's it's Hebrews 13, 2. Let's see. Don't forget to show hospitality to strangers. For some who have done this have entertained angels without realizing it. And you know, I think I do very possible that's what that was. I mean, we don't know, but definitely I think God sent somebody one way or the other to to convict you and like continue to convict you as you, you know, try to do that. And now you've cut it. So praise God for that.

Alex 1:06:43

What's funny is it got you out of the car. Yeah. It got you out of the situation you wanted to be in, even if it got you mad.

Pete 1:06:49

And that thing went in the trash when I got like as I got out of the car, I like threw it and I'm even the giving you a way out, the tat the tat you have, you know, it's that was a way out of by inserting there. Let's let's talk about tattoos. That that's a good segue, I think. So I've run into some tattoo stuff with in recovery, teaching in recovery, and a lot of my friends, I mean, even like Steve, talked about some of his tattoos that he had. And some of these tattoos are wicked. I mean, when I say wicked, I mean I'm talking like Inkiller and swastikas and demonic. There's no question they're evil. Had a had a brother that was wanting to get them covered up, and I've offered several brothers that have came to Christ that that I will pay for that, and we've

Tattoos, Testimony, And Covering Evil

Pete 1:07:33

even talked to local tattoo places. And what is like what is your opinion on on just tattoos in general? And I mean, is that something you'll continue to get? Or I know you've got a Bible verse, but what's your opinion on that?

Ke'von 1:07:46

So initially growing up, I was taught tattoos were bad, you're not supposed to mark up your body, all that stuff, and like the piercings and stuff are bad. And then when I started reading a little bit, adding a little more context to where we get that from, I had went, I came to interpret it as when those people were being told not to do those things, is because they were doing those things with the intention of basically pleasing spirits or demons. Like they'd get this tattooed on them for their spirit. Or as we may end up covering, we learned in South Dakota, who was it? The reservation? Yeah, Pine Ridge. Pine Ridge. Yeah. Where we're in Pine Ridge, we learned it's the pain, the blood sacrifice through what you're doing. Like the technology today and then are totally different as far as how these things are done. Intention can still be there. But I'm saying is back then when they were carving themselves, they were legitimately cutting themselves up with these symbols as blood sacrifice, right? So for me, it came down to intention and purpose. Like, okay, I think that's telling us not to do that in the sense of connecting yourself to idols and whatnot. And so I was when I seen that, I'm like, I'm definitely not getting a tattoo in honor of Moleque Ball or trying to make a blood sacrifice. I just think this warrior riding an elephant looks cool. So, you know, I I feel like it's kind of like a mentality I want to have.

Pete 1:09:17

So that's Leviticus uh 1928 is where the first the first kind of I guess debate comes in our faith. It says, Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the Lord. I've looked at that quite a bit, and I actually read through Leviticus 19, and there's all kinds of stuff. Right before that, it says, Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard. That's the verse preceding this. Now, it's it's difficult to separate moral and civil and ceremonial as the law's broken up to a lot of times. But just from my research and even my personal personal opinion on this is that tattoos in general are not a sin. I think that's where most people land in our faith as I was looking through this. That being said, anything that's wicked or evil, like we've been talking about, in my opinion, is clearly sin. I mean, I don't even know how you could, right? I mean, I don't know how you could even try to justify, and I mean there's so much scripture on this, but I've got first Thessalonians 5.22, 1 Thessalonians 5.22, abstain from any appearance of evil. And that's really all I need for this topic. I ran into a couple other things too that so you know, these these guys get these tattoos um before Christ, and you know, gangs, all kinds of I mean, I've seen all kinds of tattoos. And then they come to Christ and they're a new person, they're a new creation, they want to step away from that. And I ran into one particular that that wanted to get him covered, and he's in a treatment program. I offered to pay for it, and he wasn't allowed to. And it really, really bothered me. And and and so I was talking to the leaders, and one of the leaders said it was his testimony and that he didn't need to cover that up. And this you know, and boy, that confused me. What what would your opinion be on that? I mean, what's your thoughts on that? So many. Because I mean you got you actually got someone coming to inviting you to a Bible study because you had a Bible verse. Right. But if you would have had like white killer or something on you, do you think that guy would have walked up to you and invited you to a Bible verse? No. I mean, like, I mean, you know, no way you would have.

Ke'von 1:11:35

Hey, I see your tattoo man, I was just gonna let you know. No, I don't think that would have been the case. I think there are several, I think there could be many levels to that as far as whatever the tattoo the guy was getting covered up, maybe that leader, because we don't know everybody's inside, everybody's heart, everybody's intention, right? So maybe the leader, because like I don't know what you're talking about here. So maybe the leader could have himself been affiliated with that at one point and he hadn't completely renounced it. So now to see someone who obviously is also a part about to cover it up, that didn't sit right with him. Right. So you could have set that boundary, like, hey, nah, he doesn't need his testimony. Just kind of throwing some type of thing out there to keep that on him. But then you also have where that could be his legit legitimate stance, and some people are like, you know, I'm not ashamed of who I used to be. I'll tell you, you know, like with the smoking thing that I told you guys, I went to a a uh vacation Bible school, it was about two weeks or a week up in Washington. And I told that story in detail to a bunch of what 14 to 18 year olds. And why did I tell them? Because this is real. You know, your parents are gonna tell you, hey, don't do it, don't do it, don't do it. And I told him, I said, but I'm pretty confident a good bit of y'all out there are doing this. You know, it's just you have to be real with them. And so I can't run from the fact that I used to do that. I could sit up and pretend I didn't do it all day, but I did. And so I think maybe that guy could also be possibly coming from that's was his life, he's no longer that. And if a person chooses not to talk to him, that's on them kind of thing. But then this also goes back to that appearance of evil. It's like what makes you think that's welcoming to make a person want to come talk to him.

Pete 1:13:22

And I mean, we're talking about our testimonies. I totally get sharing who you used to be and talking and when you get an opportunity, but your testimony starts with what you advertise. And if you're advertising sin or advertising evil, you're not gonna get to talk to everybody that sees that tattoo. I mean, you literally don't get to walk around and say, My testimony, this is what I used to be, and not anymore. I mean, the majority of people are gonna see that tattoo walking in church or whatever it is that says, you know, whatever, like I said, demonic, racist, they're not gonna know that's who you were, and and all you're doing is advertising for evil. And I I was just thinking of all these different questions, trying to figure out how to how to navigate this, but like ultimately I came the the best question I have is who would this bring glory to? And and if I is Satan happy with you leaving it or happy with you covering it up? Satan wants it. He wants it to be shown, right? I mean, it's just so clear to me. And then also I go back to a personal conviction from this brother who who wants this, and you know, James 4.17 says, if you know the good you ought to do and you don't do it, that is a sin. So I mean, you could I don't think it's a leap to say if I'm keeping someone because of a a rule, not a God rule, a man rule, I'm keeping someone from falling a conviction, then I'm causing them to stumble, right? I mean, that that's kind of where I and I just I just can't of course I didn't get any scripture for this opinion. And that's that always concerns me when I say, okay, I'm I'm willing to have this discussion about this that you think it's okay, but let's talk about scripture. And of course didn't get any because there really isn't any, I think. It's like a to me, uh I've tried to think of some analogies that would help with people, but one of them is a t-shirt. Like I'm I'm gonna wear a t-shirt that says F U because I used to cuss. And and I'm just gonna walk around with F U on on my shirt and oh, but oh, but I used to cuss. It's my testimony. I don't cuss anymore. And I think I got one answer to that was, oh, it's a lot harder to cover up a tattoo than take off a t yeah it is, but who who caused that? Who did that? I mean, there there's a you know, so that is that doesn't make any sense to me either.

Ke'von 1:15:38

And I'll even just speak to the point of just seeing it on somebody. I was leaving church, this is probably about a year or more ago. I was leaving church, I was walking across the parking lot, and I happen to look at people crossing the parking lot, and uh I catch a glimpse of a guy's forearm, and it says Peckerwood on his forearm.

Pete 1:16:02

Yep. And then for y'all that don't know, that's a white supremacist type, very racist prison gangs kind of thing referring to the city. Yeah, in fact, in fact, that was one in one of the treatment centers we went to. A guy had that, and there was black guys in the house, and it was causing problems. Like it was really and I I I can understand why.

Ke'von 1:16:23

I mean, you know. Yeah, and that's kind of where as I'm leaving church and I see that on the guy who was just sitting in the congregation with me, you know. I I wanna I was like, what is what's going on here? You know, I how can I like I didn't want to go up here and go to him and talk to him about that tattoo, even though we just left church together? Because as far as I'm concerned, you just told me how you feel about me. It is what it is. Yeah, you was in his church, but what do you like you say, you're you're advertising. You could say you advertise a church, but thank God you don't have a cross beside it. You know, for me to be like, well, yeah. What was advertised is that affiliation. So I moved off of that. You can call that, you know, judging or whatever the case may be, but that's what I did, you know. So it is what it is.

Pete 1:17:08

And so we have a lot of mixed guys coming to our groups. I mean, we've got 20 somethings all the way up to 80s and all in between bankers, lawyers, drug dealers, biker gang leaders, I mean, just all of this. Black guys, white guys, Native Americans, I mean, you know, all of that. And we had a guy that had a pretty offensive tattoo that was, I think it was NKL on his. And tell me, I remember I remember he he got it covered up, or he he or he keeps it covered. I can't remember if he covered it or keeps it covered, but I think he covered it up with something else. But you had this, let's see, I'm trying to remember this story. Remember we talked about this the other day? You had talked to a friend about those type of tattoos that were racist.

Ke'von 1:17:54

And so, and it kind of is basically the opposite of what I just said. So I just left church seeing that on the guy, and I'm like, I will I have no reason to want to deal with him. I kind of don't like that we go to church together. Like I, you know. And then on the other side, I was playing a game with one of my buddies from college, and the topic of just racism had came up. And he was asking me, he's like, Well, do you think a person could, you know, hold that view and then pull a 360? Because we're talking about some influencers who were very pro here and then all of a sudden they're very against it, and they don't acknowledge that they were ever on one side. And so I said, you know, man, I I can't lie to you. A person who once didn't like me simply because of my skin color, I don't think there's any coming back from that. I said, I don't I don't think there's any reverting that. I could not deal with that person. If you were once like that, I'm gonna leave you where you're at. Because there's no way you get away from that. That's what I said. Well, I want to say about a not even a day, I want to say a day later. I'm gonna say this was it was at another Bible study. One of the guys that I have a good relationship with, like, I mean, he gifted me an arrowhead, just the arrowhead. I appreciated it so much. I went to Hobby Lobby and got some wire and some string and I made a necklace out of it, like an adjustable necklace from it. You know, and then I wear it, and people's like, oh, it's a arrowhead. I tell them about my buddy from Bible study who made it for me. Like, I love I love wearing it just because I get to talk about him and I really appreciate it, right? So I I'm leaving Bible study. This is like the next day. I'm leaving Bible study after having that conversation with my friend the day before I'm leaving Bible study. As I'm leaving, he gets up, he's like, Hey, I want to talk to you in the hallway. I said, Okay. Like, I know what he's talking about. All right. He goes, I'm gonna let you know that I was once a member of the clan. I said, Yeah. I remember me talking, you're talking about he was like, I was a member of the clan. I was like, What? Like, I didn't say anything, I'm just listening. I'm like, like, you know, and now he said, I'm not that way, but I was. I lived that. And he was like, but now I don't see color. If somebody would ask me who was I talking about, I'd say the young man in the gray sweater. I would not say and he didn't even say what he wouldn't say, you know. He was like, but I want to he's like the Lord convicted him to tell me that. Now, it's also the fact that I don't think that's a necessary detail. Go ahead. We live. We live in Ada. It's not very diverse here, right? Right. So out of our whole Bible study, I think there are probably, now that I've seen a guy, so I can't, there's probably like three black people there. It's not a lot of us, right? And I'm not saying that to say, oh, that matters, I'm just saying that like that really catches you off guard. You know, it's kind of like real, like, oh, you know, like you have the visual of, hey, you're whatever, but now to hear someone say something like that, you're like, ah. But now the thing was so crazy about it, if you guys haven't gathered yet, is the fact that I had just said the day before, a person who was racist, I don't think they could be changed. I don't think that's something I could forgive a person for, essentially. I'm like, I wouldn't deal with you. And then the next day I go to Bible study, one of the guys that like talking about the most from Bible study was exactly what I said was irredeemable. So praise God. Right. Going back to how the Lord puts his hands on things, yeah. It was, now hold on, Mr. Bible study. How dare you say somebody's not redeemable? You know, I dare you say this quality can't be changed.

Pete 1:21:34

So that's really cool. Yeah, really cool. Speaking of your questions, you know, you talk you did you do ask really good questions, and you always have asked me a ton just driving over to places and in groups and that kind of thing. But we had one the other day in Bible study that I thought was really interesting. We had a guy that had came, he he wasn't a regular person, hadn't actually didn't come at all, and but had came in the past and and was kind of a potster, and he made a comment about alcoholism being a gift. He he said that alcoholism was a gift, and he kind of just period. He left it there. He left it there.

Recovery Groups And Hard Questions

Pete 1:22:10

Well, it causes mass confusion in the study, and and and but Ke'von jumped in and and asked a question, and instead of an angry tone, or he's really good at at keeping his tone, you know, level and and and ask a question. I can't remember exactly how you asked the question, but it was clear that you disagreed with it by the way you phrased the question. But I mean, I know more than one person in that group really appreciated the way he asked that question and and made that man kind of unpack that a little bit. Yeah. Do you remember that?

Ke'von 1:22:42

I do. And uh yeah, he like you said, he said, I believe my alcoholism was a gift from God, and he kind of just like you said, he left it there and he made a little face like, yep. And so for me, I thought I've never heard that a day in my life. A person to say, hey, me cheating on my wife was a gift from God. My sexual immorality is a gift. I was like, I've never heard that. And so basically I asked him, what led him to feel that what most people would think was a hindrance and what kept them separated from God, what made you think that that's something he gave to you as a gift? Never read of that fruit of the spirit, you know. Never read of that as one of the gifts. And so, like I said, then he unpacked it as an okay, basically, I learned life lessons from it. I got some experiences from it that I'm able to now pass on to other people. I now have the validity to talking to people who dealt with these things. Now I'm talking from a place of experience, not just some guy who could possibly be looking down on them. Okay, that makes a lot of sense when you, like you said, unpack it.

Pete 1:23:46

Yeah.

Ke'von 1:23:47

But to just leave that there, yeah. No, that was good.

Pete 1:23:51

Absolutely. What about we've you've gone with me a lot to drug and alcohol treatment places and recovery, and we go a couple different ones. What about that have you learned or has helped you being around guys struggling with that, or just the maybe the classes that we do, or talk about that a little bit?

Ke'von 1:24:12

I like that question a lot because I think earlier I wanted to kind of elude to it. And this is something I wish I could say and leave out a period, but we're no different than them. Their average person is no different than your person who's currently battling an addiction. And what I would say is in my experience, having been in those groups, like those are my favorite groups to go to. Because those guys are real, they're aware there's a problem, and they choose to address the problem, right? But it's also the fact that they can't hide what they're struggling with. Right. You know, right. You have your person who doesn't have an addiction, but let's say, you know, a pornography addiction, anger, anger, gambling, just whatever, they can hide those things and pretend that they don't exist and they will never address them, right? Versus this addict over here, he's gonna tell you it's a problem, he's gonna tell you how long it's a problem, he's gonna tell you which stems from that problem, as we've experienced one of them. You know, and I respect that so much because follow me here, don't hear what I'm not saying, kind of thing. Being in those Bible studies with them reveal myself to me as in, hey, like I said, we're no different and I have to struggle the same way as when you're reading the Bible and you're seeing the Israelites do all this crazy like, dude, they're so dumb. How don't they get it? And it's like, it's you.

Alex 1:25:38

You experience-we are them.

Ke'von 1:25:40

Right. You experience the goodness of God, monofall from the sky, now you're crying about, oh, we should have just stayed slaves. What? You know, what are we what are we talking about right now? You know, you experience, you have, you pray for these things, you receive them, the Lord moves in these different ways in your life. You know, you pray for a miraculous healing or whatever, all these things that you accredited to the Lord, and then you will still the next day go out and just tell an unnecessary lie or something. Basically, this it's the same thing, you know. And so being in those recovery Bible studies, I just like I said, I appreciate them so much because of how real those guys are, how open they are, and it allowed me to be that open in reviewing of myself and be comfortable. Now, when we go to other Bible study settings, I'll give a confession. Yeah, hey guys, this is what I did, I shouldn't have done that, or this is how this went, X, Y, and Z. Because why why can't we all be that open? Right. Why can't we all acknowledge that we have our addictions, you know? So I think those are those are really good Bible studies.

Pete 1:26:45

So you are you got your degree in criminal justice and had some pretty big jobs that you thought you were gonna get. It didn't work out on those, and basically you were kind of getting told you didn't have an experience, and like you have a degree, but like I branded this a lot with other people too, and in college degrees, no experience, it really doesn't do you any good, you know, and which is what you kind of ran into, it seems like. And so you you went the military path. It looks like you're you're ship shipping off or going off next week for the military.

Career Doors Closing And Military Choice

Pete 1:27:17

I've expressed my concern about that, and even just to be honest, praying against it and still praying against it. I'm just gonna be be clear about this. I I don't think it's where I mean, selfishly, it's not where I want you because I want you with us, and I think it's a better environment for you. But of course, I prayed for God's will here as well. And and if you go, I'm I'm fully into support in prayer there. But tell me about that decision and where you are right now with going and that kind of thing.

Ke'von 1:27:45

So the jobs that I applied for were OBN, DEA, Border Patrol. Then I applied for Ardmore PD, Ada PD, Pontiac County Sheriff's Office, Shawnee Police Department. Probably Oklahoma City Police Department. Pretty much any jurisdiction around here, I applied for.

Pete 1:28:07

And you got even far in the interviews and something like that.

Ke'von 1:28:10

I got very far. The uh Federal Transfer Center, I applied there as well. And as far as Border Patrol, Federal Transfer Center, I got an interview on the spot with the sheriff's department office, but that led to not having experience at Federal Transfer Center. The day I went in to sign papers, there was a uh federal hiring freeze. Which was crazy. Was it OBN, my uh drug history? And then even with me having reported that, they were I had because you had to put it on there, then he asked you about it, so then I told him, well, then even with that, it was like, okay, well, we still want you to have a little bit more experience for what we're looking for right now. And then with some of the police departments, some of them just never got back to me. And so it was just a bunch of no's or I didn't have enough experience. Now, one thing that was common throughout all of these applications was if you didn't have experience in law enforcement, they took military experience, right? And so that was something, and that already was something I had always been wanting to do with my life because my whole family's military with my dad, grandfather, his father, far back. But anyway, so um, but I knew I didn't want to just I didn't want to just, okay, I'm joining the military to say, okay, I'm joining the military. I still, in a sense, wanted to, you know, aim high. I wasn't trying to give myself a guaranteed yes. So when it came to me joining the military, I chose to go the officer route. Now, the officer route, there is no automatic joining. You have to go through a board. So you got to put an application in, then it has to be passed at your battalion level, then it goes up and up a level all the way to national. And then you're going against national applicants in the class. So for my class, the OCS, there were oh man, I can't even I think 274 just for this quarter. Also, it's not year long, just for like that quarter. There were 274 applicants. And out of the 94 of us selected, I want to say there are five of them from my region, which is Texas, Oklahoma, Kansas. There are only I think I was the only one active duty selected, and then we had two reserves. So for me, after getting all of these no's and going through all these processes, this process by no means was any easier, right? The average GPA of a selectee was a 375. The average ASVAB score, I want to say it was a 76, he needed 64, I scored an 82. The average level of education was a bachelor's degree, because that's the minimum that's required. But I was one of the 15 accepted that had a master's degree, and then one person had a doctorate. But so I still had put myself in a really good spot to be competitive, you know, and then from there, it was just like everything else. I just had to pray about it. And I have I can go into those, a lot of those no's when it comes to prayer. But I just had to accept once I put out there's nothing that I can do. I'm like, it's in the Lord's hand. If it's for me, it's for me. If it's not, it's not. And I really choose to live by, I think probably for my own mental comfort. I don't like getting too high or low on emotions. So I live by it's already written, which is what it the Lord has written, He's the author of our life from beginning to end. And what's in between it, it's already decided. So it's I try my best not to stress about it, knowing if it's for me, I'm gonna get it. If it's not, then I'm not.

Pete 1:32:01

So what does that change what you're gonna be doing since you're gonna be an officer versus if you were just going?

Ke'von 1:32:06

So they simplifying it, you look at the enlisted side as the guys doing the job, the officers are the one managing the job, right? But now that's just like making it black and white. It does come to a point where some of the different jobs, the officers are working hand in hand with the enlisted. Like if you're an infantry officer, you're finna be out there beating the sticks along with them. Same thing with field artillery and whatnot. But now let's say you go, you know, intelligence. Well, instead of you being the guy gathering the data to give for a briefing, you tell them this is what we need to get. And you may be the one doing the briefing, but you didn't necessarily yourself gather the information that's needed. So you're basically like a manager in a sense. Okay. And you go through different stages as an officer the first four years or so, or first two, three years, you are getting to do the job hands-on a little bit more, and then you end up taking an admin role into an office, but still related to it. So instead of beating sticks with infantry, you're now planning out what the workout essentially is going to be for the day. And then once you get to the rank of captain, then you get back to the hands-on strategic side of things. You're still not the one necessarily out there doing it, but now you're back more closely involved with how things are going.

Pete 1:33:26

Cool. Okay.

Ke'von 1:33:27

And you leave next week, right? I leave Sunday. Well, I leave Monday morning. But Sunday I report to the hotel. All right. Well, okay.

Pete 1:33:40

Last thing is we talked about my daughter at the beginning and we get to talk about her at the end. And she she asked if I was gonna bring her up, and I said, well, you never know. I said, nothing nothing's off the table. So what is going on with my daughter? That's a pretty good question, isn't it?

Ke'von 1:34:02

Uh I mean, you know, I'm finna leave. So I know this. You weren't telling me this.

Pete 1:34:09

Yeah, just Ke'von's very talkative,

Relationships, Fatherhood, And Leaving Town

Pete 1:34:12

asks lots of questions, and all of a sudden he he doesn't have a lot of words here. For some reason, I'm trying to figure out what's going on. But uh I've heard marriage, I've heard you know, I mean, you're kind of dating. Not I don't even know, to be honest. She hasn't told me a whole lot, and you haven't either, and I understand I'm probably not the guy that gets the first bit of information, but well, uh, like I said, with me about to leave, you know, for how long I'm gonna be gone, I'm looking at nine months minimum throughout the different schools and stuff.

Ke'von 1:34:41

So it kind of was understood that a relationship probably wouldn't be the most productive under that type of strain of not being remotely close to one another. And also, I guess on my side, it's more so like I'm gonna be in schoolhouse after schoolhouse after schoolhouse in the woods, in the woods, in the woods, right? It's easy for me to be one-tracked, like I can't wait to get back home. But I'm like, I don't think it's fair to try to hold a person outside of a title, right? And then be like, I want you to respect this and not live your own life. You get what I mean? You understand what I'm saying? Like, I just I think that'd be very selfish. And so, in understanding that it's you know cordial as it is for now, and then by the time I'm done with school, that whole thing maintains, and then I'm out of school, we're actually able to converse with one another, interact and whatnot, then something can actually be done. But within that time being, it I don't think it would be productive, right, considerate, all those things.

Pete 1:35:48

Okay, cool.

Ke'von 1:35:50

Cool, cool.

Pete 1:35:51

All right. I got no other questions. Prayer, praise, confession. So we always end these with a prayer, just a personal prayer from you that you would like to throw out, whether it's for yourself, for others, or both. A praise. You're in groups, you know how this works. I don't have to tell you all this, but prayer, praise, and confession.

Ke'von 1:36:09

Oh, a prayer is uh for my my son, just his well-being and spiritual development while I'm gone. His mom is also a bit new in her faith, or new to like getting into it herself, you know. And

Prayer, Praise, And Confession

Ke'von 1:36:24

so as time goes, like I've been doing a lot of small stuff with her as far as trying to teach her a little bit, but I'm gonna put a large amount of that weight on my dad. I'm gonna, we're gonna have a conversation. I'm like, this is I need you to do this while I'm going to my son, and that's for his spiritual development. So a prayer for his spiritual development, because like I was saying earlier about being big on family. I want to be a man of God, yes, for myself and for the Lord, but I want to be that to exemplify what that looks like for my son. Because one thing my dad had instilled in me and taught me was that it's hard to have a person emulate something they've never seen. Right? I can tell you to go run a post corner, and you've never seen a post-corner in your life. You're just gonna you're gonna get you may give the best effort you have to run whatever you make up, but it ain't gonna be what it needs to be because you've never seen it, you know? And so that's what I want to be for my son. That's what I want for him, and so just prayer that those kind of people come into his life to develop him while I'm going. Concern. Prayer, praise. Oh, prayer, praise. Sorry. Praise. I have a praise for uh my time in Ada, honestly. You know, I think a lot of guys who come from either out of state or from the city and get to ADA, the first thing they want to do is get out of here. You know, the first opportunity they get, they get out. But especially spiritually, I've had a lot of development here. Um I've had many different pastors and youth groups pour into me. I've grown so much in my spiritual maturity here more than I believe I would have anywhere else. You know, anywhere else. The opportunity that I've had from the reservation to go into Washington with the school, to go into Falls Creek for the college week, being able to talk to guys from different seminary schools and everything, just I've got a lot of well-rounded insight and education down here, unofficial education, spiritually speaking, down here that I will forever hold on to. Good relationships with the right people, you know, not just, oh, I got a friend that are the people that I can talk to. Hey, can you pray for me on this? A bunch of mature men that can give me life guidance on just about anything, because they've all outlived me, you know. So that's a praise is for the community that I've built down here. And then confession, the third one.

Pete 1:38:54

Yep.

Ke'von 1:38:55

I got two. They're about the same, really, though. I told, I did tell some unnecessary lies earlier this week, but one of them was about reading my Bible. I had a guy was like, you know, oh, what you what you been reading? And I hadn't read that day or the day before. Like I hadn't, I hadn't read. And I was like, uh, you know, I'd been meaning to. I was like, oh, you know, I've been in Romans. And he's like, oh, why Romans? And I was like, you know, I've just never, I've never read it for myself. I was like, I never read it from, I've always had it taught to me. I've read little scriptures, but I've never read through Romans. That's why I told him, right? It's like, all right, da da la. And then obviously now I'm sitting here looking at my Bible and I just thought about reading it, right? And so I'm like, let me go read it. This is just a kind of let me go actually read it tonight. And man, the first five chapters were like, I think it was you or somebody who uh explained it as a Bible within the Bible. Yeah. Like I said, I'm I don't want to give the impression anybody that I got it figured out. Because I don't definitely, as Peter has brought to my attention, it's that accountability. I'm inconsistent. You know, I will be good and I'll fall off, I'll be good and I'll fall off. But he's also kept me aware of that inconsistency to where it it doesn't just, you know, build and spiral out of control, right? But when I read those first five, that was it was I don't know how to explain it, man. You know, it's almost like you feel it tugging on you in the sense of this is why you follow, this is why you do it. You know, yeah. You are, you do have these problems, but you have grace. But this is what Grace should move you to do, it shouldn't be to do this. Is I just when you worded as a Bible within the Bible, that was the best way to put it because it's so plainly spoken, but it's so impactful. And I did not need to lie about reading that, but I just did in hold time, it wasn't but three of us on the call, and this is like a 20-man group, so usually it's like 15, 20 of us, or there's three of us. What are you trying to save face for in front of two people, you know? And then the other one was with my uh my background investigator. I had to talk to him, and then uh what was it? He uh was like, hey, have you ever done any of this crazy stuff? And it was about the drug use that I just sat here and told you guys about. And then I was like, no, he said, So, you know, he gets so you've never done this, this, and this, and this. And I'm like, okay, yeah, I've done that. Now, this is the thing, I know how background investigations work at this point, right? With all the ones that I've been through. And the thing about it was, which this part is true. I knew it wasn't true when I was told it, but that's what I chose to hold on to for myself. And it was so when I was meeting with my recruiter, he's like, hey, uh, you don't if it wasn't when it asked about drug use, he's like, if it wasn't medically recorded, it did not happen. And I'm like, okay. He's like, how can they say you did it's not recorded? So I'm like, all right. So I said I hadn't when I filled out the form. So now he comes to me with the form, right? First thing that comes to my mind, which was the same thing that happened with a couple of his other jobs, as I'm sitting there, right? I'm like, now how can I say that the Lord gave this to me and this is for me? Amen. And I'm lying on the right. So I was like, I'm not, I'm not gonna do that. So he asked, I kept that initial definition, right? Knowing that, no, but this is what you told me, so I can go off of it. And then when he cleared it up, I was like, man, yeah, I've I've done that. And it wasn't even a problem considering the fact that this we're talking about two, two and a half years ago almost now, right? So it's like one, what do you what are you lying about that for for starters? Two, like I said, if I'm gonna say the Lord gave it to me, I gotta leave it. And it's already written. Whether I lie on it, tell the truth. Yep. If it's for me, it's for me, you know. And that was the big thing. It wasn't the fact that this guy's asking me repeatedly, no, because I mean, if you want something bad enough, I was you can sit there and lie in the guy's face. My problem was I'm not finna sit up and attach the Lord's name to it, knowing I manipulated the situation to the best of my control, kind of thing, you know. So that's uh those are those are good.

Pete 1:43:34

Yeah. Okay. So I've got I guess my prayer is gonna be just for Ke'von and moving forward with him and hit his journey wherever that leads him. I'm sure we'll cross paths again and when he comes back or and plan is trying to stay in touch with him with letters. So just that he find I know we've talked about this, if he winds up going and everything works out that he finds a brother there at the military that that he can walk with and have that accountability with that he's talked about so much. So just prayers for that. Praise just I guess just that God's still moving. I mean, through these stories and through these this podcast and these people that we're bringing on, and you you've heard how much he he's grown, and I'm continuing to grow, I'm continuing to try to kill the sin in my life as well, and just praising God for him to continue to show me that and show us that through physical illness like we talked about, or a person in front of us, or rebuke from a brother, or most importantly, the word of God does it. So confession. I actually this week I had a couple of days this week that I just felt didn't feel that I was lazy. And I I talked to a close brother about it. Just it's like the reputation, I guess the respect that I have in what I do and my friends, and that it it's like I'm this guy that does all this work and never stops, and and I I I do work hard and uh God has blessed me with that kind of work ethic, but I just feel like sometimes I'm I'm a little laxadaisical and and don't get as much done as I could. Just prayers for me to continue to stay motivated, keep my eyes on Jesus, and push through those days that maybe I should be doing something and I'm not. But also just to understand that I have a hard time being silent and being still, and I know that's scriptural, and so I need to be able to understand the differences between a day like that that's good for me, and a day like that that I'm not doing what I'm supposed to be doing. So