Why Most People Stay Broke? | The Mal Show (Podcast) with Sherine Kabesh

What does financial freedom actually look like — and how do you get there?

In this episode of The Mal Show, Youssef sits down with Sherine Kabesh, founder of Flash, Egypt's leading financial wellness platform and Ex - Uber. Shireen brings rare honesty to the conversation — from the social challenges of being a woman in fintech, to how she walked away from a Dubai salary to build a startup, to her take on investing, data privacy, credit culture, and what it really means to be financially free.

If you've ever spent money to impress people, avoided saving because of what others might think, or wondered how to start building real financial wellness — this episode is for you.

Don't forget to subscribe to our channel to get the latest episode of The Mal Show

CHAPTERS:
0:00 Introduction
1:06 Women in Fintech: The Real Challenges
4:23 Where Do Women in Finance Disappear To?
5:34 From Finance to Marketing — Numbers Are Everywhere
6:53 What Is Financial Wellness?
10:45 How Shireen De-Risked Before Starting Flash
13:23 Breaking Free From Social Pressure 
14:10 Confidence Comes From Within
15:52 What Is Financial Freedom?
18:37 Ethics & Investing — Is the S&P 500 Halal?
22:00 How Flash Uses Your Financial Data
25:04 The Culture of Credit
29:54 Why You Should Trust QR Code Payments
32:26 Digitization Is Like Electricity
34:35 Uber, Safety & Moral Responsibility
36:46 One Step Towards Financial Freedom

To get in touch with us: 
podcast@mal.ai

Follow us on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/themal.show/
https://www.tiktok.com/@themalshow.podcast
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566478614883

To get in touch with Yousef Salem
https://www.linkedin.com/in/youssefsamysalem/?skipRedirect=true
https://www.instagram.com/youssefsamysalem?hl=en

To get in touch with Sherine Kabesh
https://eg.linkedin.com/in/sherine-kabesh-9b385860

#TheMALShow #financialfreedom #Startup #Fintech #IslamicFinance #UAE #entrepreneurship #business

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:01

There's finance in everything that you do, in your personal life, in every single function. I don't find finance as a standalone vertical. I feel this is something that is very horizontal, that needs to be embedded in everything that you do in life, and you don't need to study finance to have a financial awareness.

SPEAKER_00 0:19

Our founder and guest today is Shirine Kabish, the founder of Flash. She has built a financial technology company centered around, bringing you that level of financial freedom and wealth.

SPEAKER_02 0:32

Honestly, this whole social pressure thing is something that I really try to disassociate with across all pillars in my life. You need to have a bigger goal than to impress a friend.

SPEAKER_00 0:42

What is financial freedom for you?

SPEAKER_02 0:43

Definitely is do nothing and make money.

SPEAKER_00 0:46

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 0:47

If I want to have that type of career and if I want to have a startup, then I need to wave goodbye to this specific lifestyle.

SPEAKER_00 1:00

What's financial wellness?

SPEAKER_02 1:02

It depends on what gives you that confidence boost. It all comes from within and it's all in your head, and it depends on how do you define yourself to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

Welcome back to the Mal Show. Financial freedom and financial wellness is something we all aspire to. We all aspire to a time where we're not necessarily have to work to be able to sustain ourselves, have sufficient assets to be able to continue to afford our lifestyle regardless of daily work. Our founder and guest today is exactly in that business. She has built a financial technology company centered around bringing you that level of financial freedom and wellness. Shereen Kabish, the founder of Flash, shares with us very practical tips of how you can save, invest, manage your lifestyle in order to be able to achieve this financial freedom and wellness. Don't forget to subscribe to the channel to get all the latest episodes of the Mal Show. Let's begin. Shereen, thank you so much for coming.

SPEAKER_01 2:14

It's definitely a pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

It's super great to have you.

SPEAKER_01 2:16

Yeah, it's super nice having you in Egypt as a site.

SPEAKER_00 2:19

Thank you. Thank you. Shereen, you often talk about the women in business. Obviously, you've reached as a woman leader, you've reached, inshallah, the highest of places, founding your company. Oftentimes you say, okay, as a girl, you have everything. He has a hand, you have a hand, he has a leg, you have a leg. But obviously, there are challenges that women and girls face, whether potentially discrimination, whether it's other maybe social duties, etc. So, how do you reconcile, okay, you have everything, but at the end there are also practical realities that do hold girls and women back. So, how do you approach it?

SPEAKER_02 2:55

Definitely a great question. And I think my opinion at a specific point is completely different than my opinion today. So definitely he has a hand, I have a hand. I'm still on that same spectrum of uh thinking process. But as you say, there's uh the social part is a very challenging part. So entering a room with um a room full of just men is very challenging. Like even if you think of it, it's in everything in the society. Even if you look at at the production today, I'm literally the only woman. I'm literally the only woman. But uh I I'm not opposed to that as an idea, but I actually take it as something that is, I hope it inspires a lot of other women to be in that place where they don't fear being in that space, but it definitely causes tru it causes social trouble because it's not easy for any woman who is um in in any type of committed relationship to just and and and to have that kind of social life, to just go and say, hi, I have a meeting with uh 20 men. It's definitely something that um it it it impacts every girl's life. And uh and I I really hope I find more women in in all industries, but I would say specifically in fintech, because uh banking industries, these are industries that are known from back in the days to not have a lot of women uh specifically in like uh medium and higher uh positions. And you also find that issue in um I I have less issues in the job itself. I would say if he thinks I think I'm I'm not really convinced with um women are more sensitive, so they're more emotional, more emotional intelligence. I don't really believe in that. I would say, practically speaking, as you mentioned, it's more on the um social impact and the kind of life that you would want to live outside your work and the life that you lead in your work. It it uh it requires to have someone who um it's not about trust uh and lack of trust in me or in the people surrounding me or any of that sort, but it's just very challenging, I would say, and not comforting. Um not comforting, and you don't find that very common in other countries, but in in I would hope really Egypt has more females um representing uh how do you think this happens?

SPEAKER_00 5:22

How do we get to have more?

SPEAKER_02 5:25

Back in university, um I remember and I majored in finance. So in finance, uh I never thought of in finance class uh there is more men more than women. And it's that industry, right? Uh where do they go? I I I I really don't know where do they go? You have that balance in school, in university. And a lot of women usually take first, Genya. I I um and I'm uh I love education. So um obviously I excelled a lot in that in that part, but there was a lot of women who I remember very well that it was always between me and another woman who were always competing on that first uh first. I don't know where she is. I don't hear about her. I don't I don't know where she is now. So um I I I don't I really don't know where they uh they they just uh decide to you find them in corporates though, but I don't know if they have that uh in them to start a company or be in that uh uh position. I don't know either.

SPEAKER_00 6:30

You excelled in finance, but then you spent all of your career in marketing.

SPEAKER_02 6:33

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

How did that happen? And if someone today is starting their career or is in finance, where do they go? How how do you look back at it now?

SPEAKER_02 6:43

I love numbers, and I think you can find numbers in anything you do. So um uh just having that analytical side, even in marketing. So, marketing, some people think it's just uh colors and uh whose celebrity is joining this advertisement and so on, but it's not that. It's even when you think about the celebrity, you still think about the budget that you're going to pay for this person and how that is going to impact your PL and once you get out of that advertisement and does it increase your numbers or not? So there's still finance in everything that you do uh in your personal life, in in every single function. I don't find finance as a standalone uh vertical. I feel this is something that is very horizontal, that needs to be embedded in everything that you do in life. Like in Flash, for example, we really promote the idea of financial wellness. And you don't need to study finance to have a financial awareness. Uh, studying it is definitely at a different layer, but even if you don't study that, just having that awareness and embedding finance in your thought process is something that's very important.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

What is financial wellness, Yanni? We know physical wellness, that's eating well, going to the gym, sleeping well. What's financial wellness?

SPEAKER_02 7:54

Um many different things. So if I would talk about it from like a very personal perspective, to me, it's it starts by knowing how much I have in my bank and in my pockets. Like just less surprises of how much money do you have and uh what do you really need to spend money on and having a bit of a uh plan. It doesn't need to be like a very long-term plan, but even like a short to medium, and then you're gonna get there a little bit time over time, you're gonna get to that place. But just having the financial awareness of how much money do I need to save? How much money do I need to invest? What is the amount of money that I need to um spend on consumption of these specific goods? Do I really need to eat at a place that's going to cost me XXX, or can I cook at home so I can have it's it's better, it's healthier. So back to physical wellness. Wellness, it's all tied together if you think about it from that different angle. Um so just having that, even buy now, pay later. Do you really need to buy everything now and pay it late and pay it later? Why are you doing that? I'm not against it at all because some things are necessities and it's nicer to get it now before it gets more expensive or any of that sort. But it's having the awareness and um the thinking process, not less of impulsive buying, I would say. And even if you want to have a space for impulsive buying, you put a bit of a budget to that. So this is my saving for if I need whatever I want randomly, then this is the amount of money that I can spend in that way. This is the amount of money that I need to spend on groceries. This I need this for my future, so my kids can have this and that. I need this today, I need this tomorrow. So having awareness, I would start by awareness, and then having a bit of um um better behavior.

SPEAKER_00 9:47

Uh I know it's difficult to say because it will depend on everyone's salaries very different than each other. But if I if you take a couple of like, I don't know, just examples of someone maybe early in their career, someone maybe mid in their career, what typical kind of percentage salary split, let's say at a very high level, what percentage of my salary I should be saving for the future? How much should I be spending on things I have to like fix up, things like rent, uh, etc.? How much can I spend on like discretionary things for fun while being financially well?

SPEAKER_02 10:17

Very good question. Very good question. I would say for specifically for people that are early, early in their careers, um, this is when you still have that fire in you where you want to grow. So I would say fire of growth and building yourself is less of uh now I've been working all my life, I need to spend and I need to do that. And if you're early on your career, there's a blessing in our culture, which is you still live with your parents at a very young age. So you really need to start thinking of what are the necessities and what kind of persons you need to build yourself into. So usually you would eat with your family uh less in uh in ordering, uh, you need to maybe buy a car for yourself. So you maybe you need to save to buy a car, you need to put fuel. So it's just understanding from a financial wellness perspective what is a necessity, what is a nice to have, and what do I need to um it doesn't have a specific percentage, so it just depends on the very personal lifestyle of the person and their circumstances and uh where do they see themselves. I don't like the whole cliche of where do you see yourself in five years and this whole thing, but really it's where do you see yourself in five years? So it's just need you need to have this not as a question that I'm asked in an interview, but something that comes from within. Um, like I'll give you a very personal example for me. Um so when I decided to to venture into a startup and to build something and and and so on. Uh before that, I was based in Dubai. Um, I was getting a good salary and so on, but I needed to de-risk, uh, de-risk a little. So as I started thinking of that startup, I had that one year uh where I'm thinking of the startup, but I still have my corporate uh life. So what did I do? I invested in in real estate, for example. Um you can invest in golds, you can invest in what you like, every person would have their own choice. But I wanted something that would be more on the solid perspective. So, because I know that the failure rates of startups is also quite high. I'm not saying that I don't have the passion that I know what I'm building is going to succeed and grow, but you always need to have that shift and that safety net. So my thought process was more about safety net. I need to, so I I change from this bubbly girl that's buying the ridiculous things and uh to just completely changing my lifestyle. From traveling a lot and like I have this lifestyle, if I want to have that type of career and if I want to have a startup, then I need to wave goodbye to this specific lifestyle. So that shift in mentality depends on which stage in life are you, and are you really ready to take the hit in different things? Um my friends would go out at night and and and spend money in restaurants. I now don't have the uh shyness of saying, no, sorry, guys, I can't spend money on this. I can eat at home and still go need them and and and just sit with them. So it's just having that shift in your mentality, I would say, is very important across every stage in your life.

SPEAKER_00 13:38

Now, the part of the problem is obviously with a lot of the social norms and social class and how we worry about how we look in front of people, etc. Sometimes people live beyond their means or understand, not necessarily because they want to or because they don't have the awareness, etc. Just because the social pressure and the worry about what people say and how you look. And another day we live in a culture and society where this can take a toll. So, how do you reach that point where you say, no, like I'm confident enough that I don't care if people say I'm saving money? Yes, sure, I'm saving money. What's the issue? Because currently there's still this bit of negative stigma or connotation where it's likewise, they're not spending.

SPEAKER_02 14:22

Yeah, honestly, this whole social pressure thing is something that I really try to disassociate with uh across all pillars in my life. All pillars, it will not take you anywhere in life. So you really need to have that confidence of yes, I'm saving today because in a few years I maybe I want to have financial freedom, maybe I want to have um, I don't know, I want to do more charity. Like it depends on you need to have a bigger goal than to impress a friend. So it's definitely what is your goal? So um, if your goal is to keep impressing your friends, then this is definitely, I'm not putting that to shame, but it's definitely a lifestyle that does not uh resonate with me as as a person. And um you don't know what others are thinking, I would say. Someone would say, Oh wow, you have your own business and blah blah, but they don't know that having your own business is an early stage startup, you don't make money. So you can get confidence out of that. So if you're getting confidence out of uh you don't need to wear designer names as you like you you don't need that. You can still have style without it, still. So it's just it really depends on what gives you that confidence boost. It it all comes from within and it's all in your head, and it depends on how do you define yourself to yourself. And when you know that this, these are my values and this is where I want to reach in life, this is the kind of lifestyle that I want to lead, you start having a much bigger goal and uh and a and a bird's view perspective that is different than what is she gonna say about me if I go and I say sorry, I don't want to eat because I can't afford this right now. It's just you're building something that's much bigger than just one outing.

SPEAKER_00 16:11

You mentioned financial freedom. Now, financial freedom is the aim and the dream for a lot of of youth, yet people define it very differently. We had Talal on the show who said for him, financial freedom is not having to exchange your time for money, i.e., building enough assets, in his case, Bitcoin, etc., to be able to generate passive income for you. Then we had Gawish on the on the show. He said the way he defines it is that with a very limited amount of time, you can get a substantial amount of income because he was worried that passive assets may still be seized or taken away or decline in value. So it still needs to be linked to your own ability, but it's linked to you having a very high, effectively almost implied hourly rate for the type of work you do. What is financial freedom for you?

SPEAKER_02 16:54

To me, definitely is do nothing and make money.

SPEAKER_00 16:58

How do you do that?

SPEAKER_02 17:00

Like when you reach that financial freedom, you have your money in different assets. And uh assets, it depends on it depends on the asset, right? Because you now have so many different options to invest in. Like you can invest in uh gold, you can invest in crypto, as you're saying, you can invest in real estate, you can invest in uh another startup that you have someone who you trust and you get you get some equity out of it. You can even do like some fractional buying into uh a truck or uh uh something that is an asset or even uh um something in agriculture. Like you have many different sorts where you can invest your money. And um, to me, I find this a like a very inspiring way that you work and you have money, and you invest this money in things that would get you money without having to work. So it's uh it's a very twisted uh equation, but it's definitely um to me, this is financial freedom. If I uh and if if if something happens and I need to work again, then my brain still stays in its active state where then I can go to that second piece of advice where then lit a very little of my time can get me money. So having that as an option uh is always on the table. But would I want it? No. But I I I want to have that, um I never want my brain to stop. So to me, uh financial freedom is just not having to work. But it doesn't mean that my brain stops working. Because even if I'm investing in different assets, it's not like I'm I'm sleeping on the money. No, I'm actively uh I'm actively looking at the appreciation of the value, like uh which is the new industry. Now, this money makes me more money that makes me want to invest in like a different uh industry. So you just have a wider scope and you de-risk because you're not just in one specific and you're not like in one specific vertical, you're in so many different verticals. So if one fails, maybe one goes up and they like you have. And you can also go and not just in Egypt. You can think of investments in different countries, so you de-risk from a country perspective.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

So um now you mentioned not sleeping on the money and letting that money circulate through through industries. I think it takes us to the point around as you're deciding where to put this money, there is a moral responsibility that comes with this because you're actively deciding which industries, which countries, which founders of Saturn said are getting more capital and which are not. So, how do you make that determination of who's worthy of or what type of assets or industries are worthy of you putting your money into them?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Ethics. Yeah, you definitely an ethical way that I believe is an ethical way, because then if you keep on digging, digging, digging, you'll find that life is a bad place to be. So you just need to define the what is ethical to you. So what is ethical to you and uh what level of information are you uh the you don't just put money in something because it's gonna make you money. Like you need to be able to decide because I need to put money in a place where I personally and religiously believe that this is a good source of money and my money is going to grow accordingly. But if it's not, then it doesn't suit me.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

You said personally and religiously. Does this imply they're two different things? There's a personal ethics code, there's a religion ethics code. Uh how does it work?

SPEAKER_02 20:32

No, both are very intertwined, but I mean religion is always uh it's always the horizontal that guides every single person in the way, uh, or at least this is how I view religion to me. It it guides every every single thought, uh, every single thought and all of your personal um all of your personal decisions. So let's say my brain takes me in a way, and then I talk to someone, and then they tell me, yeah, if you put your money in this, then you're going to get a return off, but you just don't know where this money is going to be invested at a later stage. So then I I don't know how to bring this with a with a with a good example, but let's say S ⁇ P 500, for example. Would you say this is an ethical uh or would you say it's it's it's ethical to invest in in um in something like this?

SPEAKER_00 21:22

I think that's that's a good that's a good point. Let's discuss this because effectively just and I think for just for people to be with us, the SP 500 is a basket of the largest 500 stocks in the in the US, right? Uh to what level of you usually are you responsible for the activities of these underlying companies? Because someone can say it's a basket of stocks. I'm a passive investor. These companies they change every certain frequency. Someone else may say, no, some of these companies, their products, may be used in certain activities, which your ethical code, regardless of the source of that, may not agree with. So, what do you think is the level of detail and responsibility people should go into in reviewing that? Activities of compass they invest in before making that decision.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

This is exactly what I was trying to get to. So from a personal perspective, I would say yes, it's completely completely fine because this is something it's global, it's widely acceptable, and so on. But then if you take that level of religion into it, no, there are certain activities that I would not be okay with. So yeah, I'm not telling people to invest or not invest, but then it becomes a personal view of what I would, I need to take that personal. You might find someone that would tell you, no, this is religiously okay. And you might, it's just very like I wouldn't be able to uh you need to have a brain on your own and you need to research, and not everything in religion is clearly black and white, and it's even mentioned in the Quran, like there's uh there's this and there's that, and you need to think, is this the right thing religiously or not? And you need to ask the right people and you need to ask people of knowledge to get to that decision on your own.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

Do you also apply that same framework? Because obviously, as you said, you're in you're in fintech, and in in fintech and in financing businesses, there also also have a lot of considerations around the same thing. So we talked about the investing side. How do you approach the same question in your day-to-day work? Do you do you believe that the financing activities are you operating in fit that personal moral codes you you have? And if so, why why so?

SPEAKER_02 23:22

It's like I would take that same question and even apply it to even Egypt, even beyond investors. Would you work with a normal bank where you put the money and get certificates, or would you work with another bank that's an Islamic bank? So it's it's still it's it's there's a fine line between what is is um what is is um is accepted and religiously okay. And it it just comes in different uh it comes in different uh like I'm sure every person has a different view uh on this, and this is why some things are a bit personal and some things are strictly uh religious.

SPEAKER_00 24:03

Uh some things are clear, some things are you need to think widely before you take that uh and what are the sort of products you have or you're working on that you believe, yes, these are the products which I think delivers real value for people that I'm very comfortable with, and I really think I'm adding value and creating the right outcomes.

SPEAKER_02 24:23

Financial wellness. Yeah, so this is a product that uh because of uh so financial data is something that's very important and that's taken very strictly. Um so you can see um uh a person with that same behavior of uh, let's say Yusuf, this is how you spend on food, this is how much you spend on food, this is how much you spend on electricity, and so on. So I can compare your behavior with the behavior of someone that has a similar lifestyle. So I can tell you, okay, so you're eating too much outside. You can actually eat less and eat at home, and that would bring you a better, um, that would bring you like more financial uh and instead of putting that money into that burger, actually put it in fractional gold, and that's something that can help you grow in your future and go more towards that financial freedom road. Um, if you're spending too much money on electricity, then we can dig into why are you spending that much. Sometimes it's as simple as when you go out, close the lights. The sentence that every mother says in every Egyptian household. So it just depends on. So to me, this is a very important thing of uh financial um uh uh financial wellness and uh tracking your expenses and giving you that information on how much money you're spending, where is too much and where is too little, and also on the merchant side. So I I know we're talking too much about consumers, but also the merchants, because with the merchants giving them that financial record when when their payments are digitized, and when you can see and you can see the financial flow that they get, you can then lend them money, you can help them expand their business, and so you can give them that more towards, I would say that's also on their financial wellness.

SPEAKER_00 26:09

So that's one side of it is I'll take your data. Based on this data, I'll give you insights, which are incredibly helpful, more personalization, more customization, etc. The other side of it is now you on the company side have built this massive wealth of data where you have all of this data on this on these people, and you're using this data either to, in some people's perspective, to push products, or you're using this data to design uh products, or maybe this data is being made accessible to organizations or institutions that may even some people say is a form of kind of maybe impeding on people's privacy to some extent. So, how do you see this other side of the equation?

SPEAKER_02 26:46

Data is definitely extremely private, specifically when it comes to uh financial, any financial institute. So uh uh without hitting hard on different industries, but it's not real estate, where the where the data is just easily uh given from uh uh from like a department to another. But uh in in a fintech, um data for us to get regulated and to get licenses to be able to work, it means that we pass through a lot, a lot, a lot, a lot with the central bank to give us that level of trust to handle people's money. So data, yes, as you said, it is very, very, very important. But what's more important is what do we do with the data? Do we use it to push things down their throat and just try to push them more towards that consumerism perspective? No, it's not. That's why having financial wellness as the main goal of the company, it's to help people become better with their financials because um uh that's the main goal. So any data that is there, it's definitely used to help you become a better version of yourself with your finances and to save more and to be able to get that fridge to get married. And so it's definitely for your own perspective, rather than pushing products and um and making money off of that or using it, and and and that's definitely so far away from the DNA of our company and our uh value system. And uh it's we take that very, very strictly. Everything is encrypted. Uh, we just at many points we don't even know. We just have generic data, like a behavior on consumers, but we don't give that access of who is this customer? What is his data? Like it's this customer, his name is X. This is Y, this is Z. So we do it's it's it's not as people would think, because we take that with a grain of salt to make sure we protect that data.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Um, you mentioned also the data on the merchants uh side. Now, one of the typical pictures around data is once I have your data profile, then you can create a credit profile. Finance institutions can know how much you're making, you can build a credit history, a credit score, and then effectively you can borrow, whether you're a person or a business, and you can expand the business uh with it, which again on one hand it's great, creates that expansion, but on the other hand, creates what some people say is that culture of credit that's been created, which has been enabled by that access to the data. What do you think of that culture of credit is actually a positive thing? People use credit and grow. Is there a risk that people get trapped in this credit cycle?

SPEAKER_02 29:23

There's always a risk in everything you do in life, even when you cross the street. So if you're really going to think of it with uh with them, there's always a risk. But giving people access to money at um at good rates, and that's where the data comes handy because you want money to be able to grow, and when you grow, you make more money, and when you make more money, you you this pays off this. So it's it's quite. Do you have a credit card?

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 29:49

Do you use your credit card? Yeah, I use my credit card. So I just think of it in the same way from a very simplified way of thinking, but in a broader perspective. So why do you need the credits? Why? It's just uh I even merchants need to think, why do I need the do I really need the credit or not? And it's on the five the financial institute to actually understand is this the right person who needs the do they need 50,000 pounds? Do they need one million pounds? Like, do I give them money just because why why do you need the money? What what's the return on that? Because there's also a risk on the company that's giving out that money. So the risk is mutual on the merchant that they can fall in debt, and on the company that they might not get the money back. So it needs to have purpose, and the purpose is growth. So as much as the purpose is growth and it's not uh buying ridiculous uh things and uh and growing in that perspective, uh to me, I would always uh support uh I would always support uh now another thing you're facilitating beside data and credit is payments, making payments seamless, payments with QR codes, etc.

SPEAKER_00 31:01

How do I trust the QR code? Like if I'm receiving money, how do I trust that this money will really come to my account? And if I'm paying money, how do I trust that this money is not just gonna get taken? I'm gonna be asked to pay again if I'm just like it's a QR code.

SPEAKER_02 31:13

Very valid. And it's um it it it's uh it's a global uh issue, by the way. So trust in any fintech is um very important. So and it takes time to change a perspective from a way of methods to another. So um uh in the beginning, we used to, it's it's it's a piece of paper, right? So we put it on the receipts uh to give that financial understanding. We put it um in in even a banner, but it you need the country needs to not just us as a company, like there are other payment methods that are like instapay when it launches. How is it gonna launch? It's going to launch with an insta with a QR code as well. You have digital wallets, it works with a digit with a QR code as well. So this becoming a payment method that is um that is um um uh uh authenticated by different payment methods helps in moving it towards something that is actually an official payment. And and on the other hand, you also get an instant uh notification from our side of the specific, you get an instant notification. The merchant gets an instant notification, you get a receipt, you you just have the full cycle. So there is nothing to worry about with a QR code, it's just like a payment link. And to a QR code is a payment link. So it it um you have the order ID, you have all of the details that are required to make sure that you pay the it's just like cash. So even in cash, the machine can say, I didn't take anything. You have that same thought process, it just takes a bit of time for people to make peace with the idea that it's at the beginning, machines were scared when we first started. Now it's not the case at all. At all. And people want QR codes because they want every waiter, they want every delivery person to have a cheap way of um accepting money in a digital way. So the way things start, it's like Uber. Would you have thought of riding with the stranger? No. Uh you just get used to it by time and you understand the the measures of it, when to take it, when not, is it safe, is it not? You just it it becomes common sense as you um as you grow. Um uh we're launching a new product, by the way, which is the sound, it's the soundbox. Okay. So a soundbox, it's because it's like a POS that's optimized for QR code to also make this, to help this become more of a trusted and a safe way of accepting payments. So it's it's just like a POS, exactly like a POS. It works the same instead of just um uh with the QR codes in specific, instead of paying with a card with a card, you can scan a QR code and pay online. The soundbox, to our luck, it also has an insert card if you want to pay by card. But all of these efforts, it it will help um uh the mentality around QR codes to be uh more accepted by time.

SPEAKER_00 34:06

Now, another kind of critique of that is okay, maybe I can trust it, but I don't want to become dependent on it because obviously we live in a world where we've seen so many outages caused by so many things. And at least with the cash, I know it's in my pocket, I'm always gonna be able to pay. Now you're telling me a card and a QR code and a machine, it may work, may not work, internet, AWS is down, etc. How do I deal with this dependency issue?

SPEAKER_02 34:29

I I wouldn't really call it dependency because then if you start thinking of uh digitization in general, I would think of it just like electricity, just like water. It's something if if there's an outage across uh Egypt, there is an outage. So it even if you're paying in cash, yes, you have it in your pocket. But if the cashier system is down and the electricity is down, what are you gonna do with that? Is he going to give you a free sandwich? So it just if you think of it from uh technological uh development and technological uh improvement, then actually it's less riskier because there's always um um a safety, uh a safety towards that, like your data doesn't get lost in the middle. Unlike other uh source of payments, there's always something that would uh once the system is back on, it's it's just like if the computer is not working, you already started in it's just let me take you back to Uber.

SPEAKER_00 35:25

So, as you said, it's surprising that I made the decision as a passenger to get in a car with a stranger, but I guess the convenience overturned the fear. Now, you inside Uber running marketing campaigns for people to get into cars with strangers, while potentially you do have incidents happening around the world, uh, a lot of them for girls in these cars. How do you think about the responsibility you're taking promoting people to get into these cars while you know that there's a probability that these types of incidents happen?

SPEAKER_02 35:59

So it's very unfortunate that these incidents happen. That's the uh it's it's very, very unfortunate, but uh taking responsibility in having uh a lot of people ride uh in a better way that's safer than taxis is definitely something that I would love to take responsibility for because uh the the trip is tracked. There's the technology part, it helps a person versus being with a taxi, which people also used to take with a complete stranger, that less likely they would even take a picture of the plate number of a car. So if you think of it from that perspective, it's actually and just like digitized payments versus cash, as you were saying. So it's actually something that helps more towards safety, less rather than help less towards safety. Um is it um can something happen in the street in any country in the world, not just Egypt? Unfortunately, yes, unfortunately, there are people that need to not be living with us in the normal streets, people who would do things that are against safety, their place is not uh here, definitely. But um uh taking uh having like being part of a technology technology company that helps more with uh more safety measures than others, other uh transportation methods in the country is definitely something that I uh really am proud of.

SPEAKER_00 37:25

Uh Sharine, someone who's listened to our podcast today wants to take one tangible step today towards financial freedom and financial wellness. Where do they start?

SPEAKER_02 37:36

Um a very simple Excel sheet. Very simple. Put down all of your expenses, very simple, even pen and paper if you would want. Put down all of your expenses, put uh budgets towards things that are a necessity, because when you start thinking of necessities, you'll find that a lot of things that you spend money on just completely drop off from that equation and uh think of what is the future that you want, and save even if it's with even if it's even if you save a hundred pounds, and you just need to have that mentality in your brain to start calculating things a bit more in your life rather than just living. So I would my my one main piece of advice is write things down, calculate, even if there's one month that you go out of budget, sit back, think again, recalculate, and rectify and keep on uh going on.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

She's been incredible having you. Thank you so so much. That wasn't the point, it wasn't a trap. You just have so many uh interesting insights that I couldn't help but uh follow up on it. I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

It's um it's one of the nicest, I would say, uh podcasts. It's a true pleasure having that with you.

SPEAKER_00 38:50

I think you've done quite a few of this. I think you've uh highly sought-after guests for these ones for me.

SPEAKER_02 38:56

Um thank you for having me and um thank you for all the crew and uh for setting this up. Um really appreciate it, and I really hope it helps anyone.

SPEAKER_00 39:04

Definitely, I think everyone listening to us. I think as you said, financial freedom and wellness is the ultimate thing. We all wanna we all wanna retire. So we all wanna retire.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

Hopefully, we have a retirement city somewhere.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Thank you so much, thank you so so much.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

Thank you.