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Why Most People Never Start a Business?! | The Mal Show (Podcast) with Jad Antoun

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In this episode of The MAL Show, we sit down with Jad Antoun, Founder and CEO of Huspy, one of the fastest-growing proptech companies in the Middle East and Europe.

We discuss entrepreneurship, risk-taking, fear of failure, building global companies from the Middle East, and the future of real estate in an increasingly uncertain world.

How do you know when it's time to leave a stable job and start a business? Why do so many people spend years thinking about entrepreneurship but never take action? What does it take to scale a company across multiple countries, raise capital, and build a high-performance team?

Jad shares the lessons he learned building Huspy from a startup launched during COVID into a company operating across international markets. We also explore leadership, company culture, AI, real estate, and the psychology behind life-changing financial decisions.

Topics discussed:

Entrepreneurship and risk-taking
Fear of failure and decision-making
Building a global company from the Middle East
Scaling teams and company culture
AI and the future of real estate
Dubai's property market
Fundraising and startup growth
Leadership and high-performance teams

Chapters:
00:00 Intro
01:24 Starting a Business During COVID
03:14 The Real Risk of Quitting Your Job
05:43 Lebanon's Entrepreneurial DNA
08:20 How SF Changed His Thinking
12:16 Middle East Needs Bigger Ambition
13:58 Why Huspy Went to Europe
16:01 Raise First or Expand First?
19:45 AI Won't Replace Brokers
22:03 Psychology of Buying a Home
25:41 Is Dubai Real Estate a Bubble?
26:58 Dubai's Value Prop in 5 Seconds
30:48 Launching 5 Cities in 60 Days
36:46 Who Huspy Hires & Why
47:17 Employee Secondaries Explained
51:21 Managing Cash & Runway
54:02 Risk vs. Paranoia as a Founder
56:49 How to Become a Broker
1:01:59 Where to Invest in Real Estate

Subscribe for more conversations at the intersection of business, technology, investing, and human behavior.

To get in touch with us: 
podcast@mal.ai

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To get in touch with Yousef Salem
https://www.linkedin.com/in/youssefsamysalem/?skipRedirect=true
https://www.instagram.com/youssefsamysalem?hl=en

To get in touch with Jad Antoun
https://www.linkedin.com/in/jad-antoun-204/

#TheMALShow #JadAntoun #Huspy #Entrepreneurship #Startups #Business #RealEstate #Dubai #Technology

SPEAKER_00

People say these sentences a lot, like I'm thinking about setting company, I'm thinking about setting company. And then you go a year from the initial sentence, and then still the same thing. I'm thinking, thinking, thinking, and then nothing happens. I think people have much less to lose than they think. And worst case scenario, they go out and they go back to another job. But worst case scenario, you're losing a few months of your life. I I don't think it's a big fuss like people make.

SPEAKER_01

Our guest today is Jad Anton, founder and CEO of Huspy, one of the fastest growing prop tech companies in the region, focused on simplifying the entire home buying journey. Haspi is modernizing an industry that has traditionally been slow, fragmented, and difficult to navigate.

SPEAKER_00

I personally don't think that getting $200 million in revenue is like big enough anymore. I don't think building a unicorn is big enough anymore. It was a big achievement five years ago. I don't feel it's an achievement anymore as a business.

SPEAKER_01

How do you balance having enough conviction to take a risk while also the humility that I may be wrong and I need to doubt and I need to rethink about things? How do you create this combination?

SPEAKER_00

In my opinion, if momentum dies in a company you're out, like it's so hard to bring momentum back. I feel money will come. If you have a good business, like just money will come, especially with good momentum.

SPEAKER_01

How much do you believe that we have a lot of decisioning and ability to make decisions and drive our own destiny versus we're really impacted by the experience and the environments we have and we're just products of these?

SPEAKER_00

When the AI topic starts to become very hot, man, I was speaking with like 20 companies a week. I was so scared that something will pop that can disrupt us. Like I was I was parent, like that was my obsession.

SPEAKER_01

Assalamu alaikum and welcome to the Mal Show. In this episode, we explore the future of real estate, why buying a home has become more complicated than ever, how technology is changing financial decisions, and what it actually takes to build and scale a high growth startup in today's market. Our guest today is Jad Anton, founder and CEO of Huspi, one of the fastest growing prop tech companies in the region, focused on simplifying the entire home buying journey, from mortgages and financing to connecting buyers with agents and properties, Haspi is modernizing an industry that has traditionally been slow, fragmented, and difficult to navigate. In this conversation, we talk about how people make life-changing financial decisions, why trust matters so much in real estate, and how startups can use technology to remove friction from massive industries. We also discuss ambition, pressure, leadership, fundraising, scaling across markets, and whether the Middle East is finally becoming a place where globally influential tech companies can truly be built. Please don't forget to subscribe to get the latest episodes of the MAL Show. And now let's begin. Jacques, thank you so much for coming. Thank you, Yusuf. Great to have you. I know your travel schedule is crazy, so thank you for the connection.

SPEAKER_00

We made that happen.

SPEAKER_01

Thank you. Jacques, obviously, we live in a time where things are turbulent, people have a lot of uncertainties about their lives, about their work, etc. Now, you started your business in the middle of COVID. So kind of in a way relatively not necessarily fully comparable, but comparable in certain ways. How was the uncertainty back then? How did you navigate it? How can someone living through this uncertainty today navigate that?

SPEAKER_00

This uncertainty and then inshallah it's done. I think we we launched uh we incorporated the company I think a week before the lockdown. It stole the launch. It took us a few weeks to get a license. Everything land appointment was closed for initially, people were going online. So this took us a while. Um But fundamentally, I believe in my core, it's uh if you have a if you have a really fun good business, like strong the value props good, good margins, it's uh it will come back. Like it will uh so so you have to be a bit patient. And and then it becomes uh for a company a balance sheet play. How much can you can you wait, how much can you not wait? For uh initially in the first phase in COVID, like we we could wait a lot because we had no cost. So basically it was it was me and another person on the table, and uh and now alhamdulillah like we we uh we uh we managed to go through a couple of months that were a bit difficult, but uh now we're we're in a very different place.

SPEAKER_01

But psychologically, because let's say someone in the middle of an uncertainty, their natural reaction usually will be try to stick to something that is safe, that is stable. Um someone's thinking today, maybe they were going to start a business, they think should I should I wait then given the uncertainty? Should I stay on a on a on a salary and not risk it too much when I don't know where the world is is going? How how do you think about it back then?

SPEAKER_00

I'm the wrong person to ask. I'm a risk taker. Since I'm a kid and that comes from the family. If I I take risk in general, with time, your your tolerance to risk it plays differently. And let's say when you when you have a good core, then you take less risk on the core, and you have a lot to lose. When let's say you are uh, in my opinion, you're moving from a job to starting a new company. I think people have much less to lose than they think. In worst case scenario, they go out, they go back to another job, assuming you had a good uh good career and it and etc. For worst case scenario, you're losing a few months of your life. I I don't think it's a big fuss like people make it. You know, I'm thinking, I'm thinking, I'm thinking. The problem that you have is that people say these sentences a lot, like I'm thinking about starting a company, I'm thinking about starting a company, and then you go a year a year uh from the the initial uh sentence, and then still the same thing. I'm thinking, thinking, thinking, and nothing happens. Then maybe the train goes up, competition goes up. So I uh but in general, I I think this risk of moving from a stable job to launching a company, I don't think the risk is as high as uh as people make it sound.

SPEAKER_01

So this is on the financial side, right? Where I can go a few months and then I can hopefully go back and get a job. What about the perception and the psychological side? I'm worried about being a failure. I have a good job, people see me in a good space. Now, if I go, I try on my own, it doesn't work. People feel okay, he was just successful because he was part of something, but he couldn't cut it on his own. So how do I manage that?

SPEAKER_00

It's hard. It's hard. This is this is why, like, in my opinion, when when someone launches something, um fundamentals has to be good and the value pro for the customer has to be good, and you have to operate with good margins. So if if you feel that these these two are are good, then I think there's something worth exploring. So I I think the risk reward is is is worth it. If you're going with the Hail Mary, like, hey, I don't know if uh I don't know how competition is, if my margins will work or or not, I personally don't have the stomach for that. Like that's that's not uh uh but but people know that I I usually like uh high margin businesses, but that's my uh my uh that's me.

SPEAKER_01

This risk-taking uh approach, uh being Lebanese, uh brought up in Lebanon until you were 18, is that part of it? Is that just part of the DNA part of the kind of the country and the population that has a higher risk, risk tolerance because of the is it the history of the country? Is it uh the kind of just the DNA of the people?

SPEAKER_00

I think so. Yeah, and I'll I'll uh in Lebanon it's very common for someone to go and launch a business. And in even the people that don't don't launch, uh don't have a business, their dream is to do something always on your own. And uh um and I look a bit and at everyone around me, like most people that I know around me have a business. Like my my my dad has a business, my brother has a business, and my dad and my brother has a business is is not an exception, it's a norm. Like it's it's not not nothing special. So the entrepreneurial is uh is from day zero. That's the first thing. The second thing is like we we are in in my opinion, Lebanon, we come from very good education system. The education system is very, very strong. Uh, but but the the the country is uh has a lot of economical problems, so it forces you to go abroad. So most people that have a business have a business somewhere in a random location, emerging market, could be in the US, could be anywhere. So you're used to the moving around, okay, let me build. And uh so I think it gives you an unconscious edge. But for us, like the what people say about the Lebanese, it it's a normal thing. Like we don't feel that uh there's something different.

SPEAKER_01

Very interesting that on one hand, a very strong education system can give you a lot of the skills that you need to become entrepreneurial, but then actually the economic problems and maybe lack of an employment uh system then actually forces you to utilize these skills. But I'm very interested, how did the country get to this place where one because you can think of both of these as like basic infrastructure, right? One is the education infrastructure, one is the economic and work infrastructure. How did you get to a place where the first one is being done very well, but the second one is so lacking?

SPEAKER_00

Uh I don't know, man. I think this is a political problem. I don't think it's a problem. I'll tell you how I see it as a as a as someone who grew up there. Uh like the education system in Lebanon is is is good for generations. Like it's not the like my my generation is not the first one. Like I remember my my there's a big gap between me and my brother. It's a 15-year gap. So my brother had a good one, like my my my my parents is like it's everyone has a good a good education system, so it's not nothing recent. Economically, uh for the past, let's say, 30, 40 years, there's always something that that that pops, either uh a couple of wars, multiple revolutions, like the the big bomb that happens. So you feel that economically there's there's always something that takes uh that takes the country back. Uh but for as long as I remember, let's say for 2030, it's a very common thing for someone to go abroad, like in Lebanon. It's not uh any people coming to Dubai, people going to the West. It's uh it's nothing new, like it's uh it's ingrained in the DNA of uh of uh the Lebanese paper.

SPEAKER_01

And you went abroad, you left to San Francisco when you when you were 18. What drove that that decision?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so I I uh I'll tell you, I'll tell you just to link it a bit, and that's that's me, my opinion. Lebanon, we're we're very entrepreneurial, but we think very much on a local regional uh scale. Like, oh, okay, I have a business, like an accountant, maybe I'm gonna go on a two-trick. Man, when when I when I landed in SF, I was I couldn't believe it. Couldn't believe it. Like it's like people I thought people were crazy. People telling you, like, and that this was at the time um where it was the launch of Uber, Airbnb, the the wave of marketplaces or the gig economy. And people telling you like they're they're in their 20s, I'm gonna go and take over the world. Like I was like, man, these skies are are insane. Like I could I could not believe it. But then after like living there for like a few months, it becomes normal because everyone's saying the same thing. So your environment impacts you. So and I think a part of what we're doing today in hospice is reflection what what happened, uh, what happened back in in the US, and and especially that that this city is a very optimistic city. They they see the good in what you do. And when when someone tells you like I'm building uh something, uh automatically, oh, if this works, how how big can this be? Like that's the that's the the the reflection. So uh this was my uh my uh the impact of the city on my on my thinking.

SPEAKER_01

You said you get impacted by the environment you're in. Some people go as far as say everyone is just a product of the environment uh that that they were that they were raised in or that they existed in. How much do you believe in that? How much do you believe that we have a lot of decisioning and ability to make decisions and drive our own destiny versus we're really impacted by the experience and the environments we've had and we're just products of these?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know. I think it's a good question. Um I'm gonna speak on like on on my side, I I think I I don't want to reflect the general answer. For me, definitely the the you know if if regardless how people perceive the the city and the and the country for seven days, it it changes your mind. Like the the scale, the their um it it definitely put puts a fingerprint. Out of out of on a personality level, I I don't feel I've changed. Like I I I feel I'm uh v very like by very Middle Eastern, very Arab and and white and uh in terms of values, friendship, family, like I I don't think this has changed me. Um I I think I uh something changed in my brain, but I don't think something changed in my personality. And even for example, in the US, like most of my friends came from similar culture that I have just easier than you're um to communicate with. But I I when when you say your your reflection of the problem, I get it. Like it's uh um it definitely puts a stamp in.

SPEAKER_01

Now on this point around values, right? Because in the Middle East and as Arabs, we pride ourselves on what we call our values, right? Which a lot of them are around family and society and community. But herefore, here you are, for example, talking about a very important value in SF and in the West, which is optimism, right? Being saying how far can this go? While realistically in the Middle East, we tend to be more on the pessimistic side, right? And tend to think how things can go wrong and and and why this doesn't work. So do you see that one as as a different as a different value that you've seen in the West versus the East? And how can we like not just look at the at the West and say, okay, we have we yes, we have some values which are great on family, but there are also some great values there from a kind of an optimism and other things that we can also bring here.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. Uh Lick, I don't know if you agree with me on this. We've been in the in the ecosystem of I've been in the ecosystem since 2018. I think you probably are similar in in tech giveaway. So I think change a lot. Like the the the past two, three years specifically. I I I think when I when I arrived, I agree with you a lot. Um now you feel that no the the the it it's changing a lot, more people are going, like making bigger bets. Uh I think the problem of funding is solved at least for the first few stages and on the mid-growth, I'm I'm not I'm not sure. Um but but you you feel that people need more the courage to go abroad. That that's what I feel. And people when when they come in and tell me, hey, I'm building a company since you're speaking a bit about the optimism, and bear in mind the company, like I'm saying venture back, you want to go on scale, and etc. It's like I I personally don't think that getting to $100 million in revenue is like big enough anymore. I don't think building unicorn is big enough anymore. Like I I feel and um when you see what's happening in this and there's still people going aiming to become an I I just don't feel it's uh optimistic enough since you asked me about uh optimism. It it was a big achievement five years ago. I I don't feel it's an achievement anymore as as a business. Going a bit in the Middle East and it becomes for you to get to that scale, it's a market size problem. Um few industries, in my opinion, can get to these sizes and uh and uh in the Middle East. If not, you you have to go abroad, assuming the competitive landscape is uh allows you to do that. Uh in in our and what we do, uh it's so nascent that we have the opportunity to go abroad. This problem is not plus the market size that we play with, is usually one of the biggest market sizes that we play with. So getting to scale is not a problem for for uh for us as a company. But this is for me, if you tell me about the optimism to get to big numbers, big uh global mindset, and and all of that.

SPEAKER_01

Now, on this point on going abroad, right? Because a lot of times when we in the Middle East think about expansion, as you said, we think about I'm gonna go from Egypt to Saudi, I'm gonna go from the UE to the rest of the GCC. And this has always been kind of the common convention for the last 10-15 years. Now, you started from a completely different playbook, right? Going to Spain, going to Italy, etc. So, one, what made you decide? You mentioned one factor, which is the market is still nascent, so you have an opening, but what else made you make the decision and why do you think not more people are making that decision and people are kind of staying within the region, maybe going to Africa, that decision to say, you know, I can go to Europe, what drives it and how can other people make it?

SPEAKER_00

So just to wake up a bit where we stand, so now we've been in Europe for more than three years now. Um when we went to Spain initially, it was a completely objective decision. Yeah, completely. So we looked at uh okay, our sector, still nascent, no competition. Let's look at market structure and market sizes. So literally pen and paper. And uh we felt Spain was uh was a good start. The good thing is Europe has a similar structure everywhere that you go in what we do, but we felt that Madrid specifically was uh not too big and not too small compared to the balance sheet that we had back then. So we we we can prove that this can work in a European city, not uh London size, but not uh a small small city. So we can validate the model that we are we're doing. And and when we went initially, we learned a lot the first year. Like we we made a lot of mistakes. Building in Europe is uh is a different different beast b beast. Um but when you learn it, you get it, it's like it gives you like it's the same, uh it builds you a lot of replicability. So now just to to speak a bit about the position of Fosby. We're uh uh we operate in Spain. Uh we're we're the largest in Spain. Uh we are launching two more countries in the next uh three months. Uh Italy is the next one. Um and uh yeah, this is uh this is the summary and naturally.

SPEAKER_01

Now, uh a lot of people think also about the expansion as a chicken and egg between money and expansion. Now, you raised one of the largest Series Around in the Middle East and you've expanded uh internationally. Which comes first? Do you raise the money and then use it for the expansion? Do you take the risk of expanding knowing that you don't have enough money? And if you don't manage to raise, you'll have to unwind the expansion, but at least you show some proof points. Which comes first?

SPEAKER_00

As if the series A was a long time ago. I think this is like three, four years ago. I think I think the the main expansion that we're doing right now is the last round that we've done with Boulderton, like the the series B that we've done in Hospice. So we felt that we we're at a stage where we have a playbook. So technology is coming into like a really good place. Uh operationally we know how to launch. Um the way you launch City to another, very much similar. Marketing is very different. So marketing is very, very much local. So we said, okay, we operate with like uh a great value proposition to the real estate brokers and the mortgage brokers who are our customers. Uh, but okay, the margins work really well. Let's go. Let's let's go fast. And and then it becomes like, okay, if you want to go fast, then it becomes, in, in my opinion, a talent problem. Can you scale and get a lot of people in multiple cities and etc. without losing the talent quality because it's very easy to do a shortcut. Uh so we focused a lot on solving that problem. Today, like the recruitment team in hospital, uh, I call them my best friends. So I I work I I they I work hand in hand with them. We have a like we have a recruitment team of more than 10 people, which which is a big team compared to to the size of uh of uh of the company, and uh um they they will be core to for us to be able to launch multiple series at the same time.

SPEAKER_01

On this point about the brokers being your customers and being at the heart of your business to offer an operating system or tools for a mortgage and real estate brokers, a lot of people, when they launch businesses, they think of the existing brokers as intermediaries, third parties, and they come in and they look to disrupt them and disintermediate them, and they say, I'm gonna provide an excellent offering to the end customer in a digital way, in a native way, and I don't need these brokers. Now you have come in with a different philosophy. You said, How can I enable and equip the existing brokers or new brokers to enter the market and how can I work with them? What made you do that decision? And again, compared to what some people would say, why don't you just disintermediate them and serve the end customer directly?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so uh so first of all, most marketplaces have an intermediary in between food, uh right. I don't know why only in real estate they want to disrupt the the person with like we the the other other it's always a topic that comes up. So uh that's the first thing. Second thing, we build a thesis around around agents and broker. Like the we work for them. Like and and and um everything that we do, we put a lot of care, a lot of minds if if it's gonna serve the agent and uh the reset agent, the mortgage worker better. That's something very important. Um to my knowledge, maybe I missed something. I don't feel I don't think that anyone who played direct uh managed to to make it work. And there's uh 10-15 companies at least that raise a lot of money and and and do that simply simp simply for multiple reasons. Uh most importantly, I think people underestimate how difficult it is to be a real estate broker and mortgage broker, and this is why we have a lot of respect to to our persona, like a lot. And uh we try to to make the the work much easier and and uh alhamdulillah we manage to to do that over over the past few years. But uh going in, managing sourcing listings, multiple visits, multiple financing, playing with a ticket of that that's a few hundred thousand dollars at each, all alone, just I just don't see it what whatsoever. Uh people come and say about disruption and and speak about AI. Like we we're probably uh the company that has the most data in the country. I have thousands of agents working with us, multiple touch points on the app every single day. Like we're uh you know people speak a lot about uh the disruption of AI that made in the legal space, like the Harveys, and like we can we have a similar like data knowledge that we have that we want to spend something out. But when we spend something out, it's gonna be on the for the benefit of the real estate broker and the mortgage broker, similar to to how these companies are are are being built. So we're gonna remain uh um right for our thesis of empowering the the the real estate broker and the mortgage broker.

SPEAKER_01

And on the AI, are all of these brokers still humans or they will remain humans, or some of these brokers are AI brokers?

SPEAKER_00

No, all of them are humans. Okay, so there's a lot of repetitive tasks that can be auto automatic like very easily automatically. automated um and and we've done that so all the back and forth on communication on pulling a listing out on uh putting something good on a pdf like this is done right that that that's really good where it becomes an offense function like really really important other than the saving time that we mentioned is the matching because the the market's so fragmented like you when you want to go and buy a house or you want to go and finance a house it's a speed game but also it's uh it's a quality with a bit of subjectivity because people have different tastes so you can tell me me and you have the same budget same uh square meter but there's an eye at the end that we learn a lot from the clicks of the customer that does so whenever there's an induction that's going from real estate broker to the mortgage broker you want a high hit rate and even if we don't have the inventor or the broker doesn't have the inventor you want them to match someone else very very quickly so what we look a lot and Hospital and we look at a couple of things the productivity of the agent and the mortgage worker that's that's something really really cool for us and uh the the way they're saving the customer that's second thing and three we want our network to make a lot of money like that's that's at the end of the day what uh what we're trying to aim for uh talk to us about this taste about the psychology of the of the of the buyer etc so as you said we both have the same budget uh we have the same requirements we look at the house we see it differently have so much data what's really behind the psychology and taste don't know man human beings are different it's like why why people buy different cars like i i'm like i'm i'm personally obsessed about design i love loveline and when i have nothing to do i go and i look at the portal like i start looking at houses um i don't know like every person has a taste uh some people like the new stuff some people like the old stuff some people like uh something in between where you have a mix of uh of both and you have to serve for different different aspects so whenever you you click you need to feel it that that directly and this I think is a is a massive uh IP that we we've been building around around the past few years so when we started with mortgages like I'll I'll give you something very simple when you have a market that was that's super hot and you wanna you want to buy through a mortgage okay the interest rate is incredibly important but speed is very important you need to close fast if you don't close fast someone else takes it and so we have to learn okay this is liquid optimized for speed go go go go go so you go into another let's say city where it's let's say the market's less liquid okay you have time you have to go and play so at the end of the day you have to put the yourself in the shoes of the customer this is what we do and we know how to put ourselves in the shoes of the case because we control a lot of the data and that that's uh that's going around so this is what uh I can tell you a lot going directly on the test I I I don't know what to say now the value prop for the uh your customer which is the broker is is very clear and the impact you're having on their lives by allowing them to sell more and make more money as you said make a lot of money is clear.

SPEAKER_01

Now when you put on the hat of the end customer who's buying from that from the broker how do you also make sure that you're holding their interest at heart because there's an ethical responsibility of effectively equipping people to push out mortgages to people you don't want also your brokers to use these tools to overburden the end consumer with very high mortgages and interest etc that burden their lives with with more debt and obligations. So how do you think about that?

SPEAKER_00

100% and uh internally we have a lot of control. So think think a bit about any marketplace how do you control a marketplace right the the the more ethical or good behavior someone does the more you reward that's the that's the general basic that that they uh which we have the same system in OSP but but most importantly we have a system where if you incentivize the broker with the right tools they will incentivize the right customer with the right tools. So that that's a bit how how we speak about and if you go a bit on the Google reviews that we have that we put a lot of effort in and have we're doing and Hamdala incredibly incredibly well. So that's the that's the first thing. The second thing is that when you put a a lot of control in the back you can know what to limit and what not to limit. For I'll I'll give you uh I'll give you small example uh we're constantly negotiating with banks on getting exclusive rates so we can pass them to customer like that's uh that's a very clear one pricing uh when we take pricing we want to be fair to the seller but we also want to be fair to the to the so we bring a lot of objectivity on data okay either recent transaction but also current because if you go and you compare against three six months from today in a market that's stable then the data is accurate if the market split is let's say super hot or not then the the data is obsolete it doesn't even matter. And and this is our job. So when we feel we're providing these tools to the agent and the broker and there at the end of the day they pass this information to the end customer then I feel we've done our job as a as a company. On this point of market volatility some criticism for people towards the real estate uh market is that it has gone away from fundamentals into a lot of speculation and that's what's driving a lot of success and it moved away from the dream of people owning a home to just people flipping houses how how do you see that in general or and in the UE obviously a big part of it yes um look I I can tell you I can tell you a bit what uh the data prime location there's no supply it's no supply like it's even even and if you if you speak today where like in in uh in may uh may 20 it's barely any supply that you can go and find and uh and even for example right now like to to make people visualize a company like us when when you have let's say in the past four years a market that's that's uh that's doing really well when people want to go buy on let's say on primary of we're fighting to pull inventory fighting like fighting to get inventory out and we're a company that can pull inventory out right and and some people we cannot even serve them. So we look bad and let's say when you have a lunch you have a good bulk of the inventory coming to you but the demand's so high that there's a gap that you still feel on the secondary side where you have a like a well priced uh property in a good location it moves like liquid like it's it's incredible so so and I I feel this is beyond real estate I I feel people want to be here like just you know people speak about value proposition we we've mentioned the this this word multiple times I think the value proposition of the city is insane and and the way it describes value proposition in my in in my mind is like you have to explain in 10 seconds zero tax safety beach is five minutes away like that like it's it's it's so it's so straightforward and and I think this is what people are paying for which is still less than what other cities are are being priced at so um this is what what we've been seeing a bit in uh in uh in in dubai and and even even the the past couple of months post post the the march conflict and the way the market rebounded is insane like it's we we like I'll we we re like six six weeks post the war uh uh started we're at more than 90 per 90 percent of the normal vote like it it's insane like it's insane like this is not uh like this is a very strong fundamental of uh of a country where people want to go go and be in in my opinion at least and I think you took even five seconds not ten to describe the value prop.

SPEAKER_01

And and that's something by the way you've always said that if you don't if you cannot describe the value prop in five seconds a value prop. Why are you so focused on that point?

SPEAKER_00

There's something that I call it's a lot of English like you know when when when someone describes it to you like oh we do uh X like it's it's uh then it's confusing right so so for example for for for us with for the agent is like when when you describe the value props like come make more money like how do you make more money is like highest commission in the market best technology but it's it's so easy to explain like it's so easy. In my opinion when someone pitches something long and then it's uh either it's an articulation problem or the value prop is uh forced like it's not um um it's not elegant that's how we call it and and it's not an elegant solution we say this this a lot in uh in in the company you talk a lot about the company internally and how you talk together etc uh and one of the things you talked about before a lot is having a flat organization uh why is that important how how have you done that i'll i'll tell you i'll tell you i'm gonna speak on on hospit specifically maybe other companies operate differently um i'm very involved in the business like i'm very involved in the business uh operationally on the product on launches i still launch cities uh to to today and etc when when i'm i'm like when you have let's say um a ceo who operates a bit differently who's like a bit more on a on a vision level or something maybe it uh you need a different organizationally uh sorry different structure in internally um with us i feel is like when you have a good value proposition or good strategy it's 50% of the battle then the rest is tactical details so is the launch done with the the but the the best way possible is the product well designed boost your i and your ex your marketing the right way when you launch a new future feature does it uh does it uh articulate to the customer in the right way i i have in the company think like 15 16 reports and most of them manage PNLs and if you do manage a PNLs it's a heavy role and it's like a CFO or a head of product or uh or and these are the people who moved in and even the layer below them which had say the top 40-50 people in the company I work with them directly as as as a business. The good thing with that layer there they're I would say most of them the vast majority maybe 90% have been in the company for a while. So they know the DNA of the the the the business both culturally and and business uh b business wise so we can move fast. So for example uh now we're launching uh uh five cities in in 60 days which is which is a lot and we feel that we can launch them in uh in a clean way in an elegant way this is it's purely execution that that you're operating with and I feel if you're heavy and internally with multiple layers and you just can't can't go this fast. Like I I don't believe that a company that has I don't know seven eight layers can launch uh uh a couple of countries and five cities in in in two months my that that's my my opinion and you don't worry that having let's say 15 16 different uh lines rolling up independently can create fragmentation or or silos or kind of dilution of responsibility or accountability no uh no in our case I'll tell you why we have a lot of things that are centralized so operations are centralized uh marketing centralized uh the way the products centralized the way we build we build with in a with a global mindset so any gem can turn on and turn off a feature for example but the feature is built once for example uh in two clicks you can take the feature and localize it with language so for us it gives you a lot of speed but you also control your your opex line because like if you want to go and replicate the same process in every single country it's uh it's useless like what you're building right it's uh you're not benefiting from the economies of scale so your cost structure goes up so you're you cannot serve the customer the way you want to and and and all of that. On another side our our GMs are uh they're very calm but very aggressive so but but very tactical as well it's not like the only the the and in my opinion like a really good jam has to to be really good oper operation but has to have the ability to sell as well especially if you want to play with a high growth rate you need more accounts to come and and and all of that. So with the people that we have today um I feel comfortable in structure if you tell me two years from today you're gonna have I don't know 10 countries is it is it sustainable I don't know probably not as as but I think that's a problem for for later on.

SPEAKER_01

You're very focused on PNL ownership the fact that these GMs or these lines own their their their kind of their PNL uh what kind of drives that and how how do you structure uh that vis-a-vis let's say having them more operationally focused?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah so so the the operations and the PL they overlap uh if you have good operations it will show in the in the PNL like it's uh in that's my opinion at least and uh for sure like in in my if I want to put the the the way we think internally is like one are we doing good by the customer and two are we running good business like that's the that's the way the the we are we're operating and the GM controls the PNL fully right like in in in hospice so if you have a good GM then you have a big headache that's out in and uh on that forefront. Saying all of that like I'm very much involved like I speak with with every jam that we have in the business probably once or twice every day. We have reviews weekly so we it it's and and most importantly the GMs speak a lot with together. So the the learning the learning learning learning at some point in time because learning is a big world at some point now you learn learn learn then you cop like you cannot be learning for 10 years then every single time something goes wrong tell you I'm learning I'm learning I'm learning like it's like it feels like an escape at the end at the end of the day. So we feel in the business lines that we we operate in which the real estate industry the real estate business and the mortgage business we learned a lot we we paid for the learnings for the past two years and we feel we're we're in very good shape right now.

SPEAKER_01

On this global mindset you have part of this global mindset is driven by heavy MA right you've been kind of acquiring multiple multiple companies and now people sometimes worry about you know how how fast can you integrate these companies can you really uh create synergies does it become like a holding of fragmented different companies different cultures especially these MAs in different countries how do you handle such a significant MA playbook very good question so just to wake up a bit what we've done so we've done four acquisitions two that are small two that are big um we're looking at potentially something as well right now and um the small ones I'm gonna put aside because I think it's irrelevant um in those integrations before you come into into an acquisition for the way we look at it is like do we feel that this is an asset with good people that we can grow?

SPEAKER_00

If you you put money on that business then you can 10X a business that for that for us the the magic question. If we feel that's yes and the transaction goes through and and all of that then integration it it's one of the few things that we do in Husby very slowly because you cannot get value you cannot lose value out of the asset. So data migration slowly the taking them from their system to our own slowly um sometimes the brand has value the companies have been building let's say for the past 20 years so you don't want to remove the brand instantly for example so you can transition at X by hospit or or something like that because as well we want to centralize the value of the brand in uh in in the company and um and we take it from there. For the past five years if let's say you're removing the two small ones we've done two now maybe we'll we'll do something new we feel comfortable with with that rate with us in general if you look a bit at at our at uh in at our size all the acquisitions that we've done were are probably less than five percent of our top line. Nothing like we we like to run organic that's that's the that's the general role that we're we we play under unless we feel that there's something that we uh that that we can grow tremendously and with good people. You mentioned good people uh twice and you've mentioned previously a lot of focus on on recruiting uh what do you hire for what are the key qualities you look for like personality that's one like we want uh the the thing I'll this is something I I spoke a lot with my recruitment team we have to reflect the company as is like it's the the reality when when a candidate comes and enters hospia what we pitched and what they see has has to be has to overlap. Because a lot of a lot of companies they go and they pitch something like really good and then when they come in reality is different and it's a loss loss for everyone it's frustration for the for the person frustration for the company and then striction all all the time so from when we start recruitment we say hey we work a lot and I promise you we work a lot because I want to I want to make people visualize it so so that's one we're aggressive so in my opinion if you want to play with a high growth rate you need to be able to do that and some people yeah that are ready for that some people are not maybe some people personally on the in in their life right now they have different priorities but most importantly like they know that hey they're committing to like a high intensity job but also work top players in the market. So so you come in and if you want to give a good time give a good portion of your time to to uh to your um uh to your career then I feel that that this place is uh is is a good one um apart from the personality in most of the roles that we're recruiting for today either being in tech or in market launching we look for a lot of technicalities so um and and it's hard to find technical people that are are you know wanna go like I you call them tigers or whatever you want to call it uh and when we feel that we so when we when you look a bit at our recruitment for us to find people it takes us a while like it takes us a while like and and even if you look a bit at like the we we I look at it like even as a data like we look at the the the amount of people that we speak with to get a kind of it's it's insane. But when you get a person like you you know that you have a gem and this for me was clear that when you're scaling at this quick if you don't get it right the company can fall. So you get a lot of people that are not the right fit then your quality will go down and a player don't only want to work with a player like it's you can lose it very quickly. So this is why we said okay let's invest in a big recruitment team and the recruitment team hires for the roles that we have but also build pipelines from one or two quarters from today that we're going after. So we always have a like okay like we're as ready as us but and even with all the work that we're doing uh we're fighting for everyone we're competing with the best companies out there so you actually build a pipeline of candidates for roles you're not even actively to to kind of keep tap to be ready when you have the roles live to hire to hire people one to two quarters not not to be not not to not to be unfair to people also as well and we we mentioned in very briefly like we're thinking we're gonna launch in the city in like two quarters for example and um so we try to be a bit uh a bit ahead of the curve.

SPEAKER_01

What's the city launch playbook that has kind of worked well for you especially as people go not necessarily obviously getting into like industry specifics and competitive advantages but more of just generally I'm I'm an operator maybe even something else as in real estate I'm entering a new country a new city what are the key things I should really be very mindful of to make a successful launch?

SPEAKER_00

Like I'm I'm not gonna go into the details on purpose uh but in general real estate works the same everywhere um people go on a portal and then they move on WhatsApp like that's the in general and it's the same questions like in Dubai people ask you if the there's a German pool in the building in Spain they're gonna ask you if there's an elevator in the building same same exact thing right so it's not people when they tell you oh it's very different in reality it's not so when we feel comfortable in understanding the person what is incredibly local is marketing. Incredibly local you you have to integrate with the city that for us is like incredibly clear it was clear four years ago and with time it's becoming even more clear. So for example when you go from uh one city to another in Spain the culture of the city changes so you have to position the product and the company differently so this is why for example when we when we launched a city we spent a lot a lot of time with with agents but not only with agents and with the relevant people in in uh in in the city so something or on a very global way so the the way people buy houses the product it's marketing is incredibly local and this is uh this is what we what we believe in the company.

SPEAKER_01

So one of the things which is changing obviously is location as you move but also another change that's happening is generational right and I guess that also impacts marketing massively because as you as I assume also the the the age group of your brokers is probably also dropping over over time you have let's say Gen Z brokers coming in with an alpha brokers coming in at some point I assume marketing to them is also a very different proposition and the platforms are different.

SPEAKER_00

100% look I'll I'll I'll give you an example in Europe we pay three times more commission. So in theory if someone works three times less they make the same amount of money. So some people and depending on some of the personas that you mentioned they say you know what I'm gonna work three times less some people say I'm gonna work the same but make three times more and some people say you know what I'm hungry I want to I want to work even more and the beautiful thing is that to each their own and that's a system that we we operate with. And even for example just for you to know a bit in in every city that we operate in in uh in uh in in the company let's say in Europe in this case we have the best agents because we're giving the best conditions in every single city and we have uh part-time moms and part-time students and everything in between right and uh and again every single person has uh has set up like for example with the with the students you see them in the exam season they all drop then they come back right so you start seeing the behavior a bit on the on the on the business this is why when we look a bit at retention court uh it's so important to segment it like it's depending on the persona and and all of that you said also you're obsessed by uh by design and UIUX etc what for you forms a good design when you look at something and say

SPEAKER_01

This has the right thing, this is visually appealing. This is the right thing.

SPEAKER_00

I'll tell you something. On the UI side, I feel when people open an app, or forget the app, when you when you see anything, you go to a restaurant, you go to a lobby of the hotel, you have five seconds, either you feel good or you feel bad. If you feel bad, good luck changing your mind. Like you're you're you're out. This is why I believe a lot in the in the UI, especially in the first impact. When you go a bit on the UX, we count the clicks, like to make an option, like one, two, three, four. Like, okay. If it's more than four, you say it's not elegant. Like it's too many clicks. You lose the customer on on uh on the top. But this is a bit the UI is an art. You have a taste also. Like you, I you can go into uh I don't know at the lobby of an hotel, I can tell you it's it's an incredible lobby, you can tell me it's a bad lobby. So that this is where the taste elements come in and uh and uh all of that, which is not uh not a zero-to-one. You know, it's uh you have to build it to the best of ability. But on the X we we count clicks. That's the that's how we operate.

SPEAKER_01

And on the UI side, do you believe in this vision of like a hyper-customized world where in the future everyone of us is gonna see something completely different and hence we're all satisfied?

SPEAKER_00

I feel you will always have the same core with some personalization. Like I I feel like like for example in Hosp, we empower people to work under the the under the brand of Hospia. So for us, we put a lot of uh a lot of effort in the elegance of the brand and the quality and etc. But you have the personalization that you you have to do for you to uh to shine your personality and uh the humanity. I feel the whole world will go in that direction uh with time.

SPEAKER_01

Now, going back to the the kind of the culture uh in internally, obviously also you you kind of you describe some of the team members as your best friends, let's say on the recruitment side, how do you create this culture? Because obviously, again, a lot of people want to let's say separate their personal lives from from from work. How how is the culture internally how how intertwined is personal and work?

SPEAKER_00

How is the culture internally? Um culture internally is a bit how how uh how I described it a bit with the with the recruitment. So it science environment. Um that's for sure. Two you have a high alignment internally that that we we put a lot of effort to build and to maintain it. So okay, we're gonna work a lot, but it's gonna be a teamwork. Uh operating. And I think teamwork is great because we're human beings at the end of the day. But two, you learn, you learn, you learn, you learn, you operate, you operate. Uh the third thing is like the the good the what I love, I love, love, love, love promoting internally. Love, love, love, love. And I'll tell you why. I think a lot of companies think that the grass is always greener outside. Oh, I have a role, I'm gonna go outside. Okay. Which I don't believe in. Two is that when you go and you promote internally, it's really good for it's the right thing to do for for people. But two, these are people who know DNA of the company. So, so you the the risk also that you're taking is small. So we em I emphasize a lot on uh on uh uh promoting with internally. If you look a bit at let's say the team that reports to me or even team that be below them, most of the people grew up with us and internally and uh and the company and I love that. So if we really manage that, hey, there's nothing here, then then okay, fine, we'll go outside if if that's the case. But I feel it it brings a lot of clarity to the company that hey, if I do this in my role, I can get to X within the first, the next whatever years that says so it builds you a lot of clarity, but also okay, what do I need to unlock to get more equity and increase my so okay, you know that you're gonna progress professionally, you're gonna make more money here, and okay, you have a crew that's very much aligned. That for me is a proper teamwork that you do, bearing in mind that the opposite side, like in husband, it's not 9 to 6 at all, like it's at all, like it's it's high intensity. But what I have a lot of peace with is that we say it upfront to people. So we're we're not coming and saying that's it's butterfly and roses, and then you come in and you have something, something else. And I emphasize a lot with the recruitment team to um uh to deliver the message for for people coming in.

SPEAKER_01

Now you mentioned creating alignment internally, and part, as you said, of that is financial alignment, people seeing a road, a roadmap to make money. Part of this is being kind of a top payer or paying in line with the market or benchmark. But another part you've done a lot now is these concepts of secondaries where people can basically sell some of the stock options they have in the company and get cash for it. One, if you can test about the structure, because not a lot of companies uh have have that. And then, second is how do you balance between people having enough skin in the game to continue building and between people being able to take some liquidity off the table to support and kind of renew their financial runway and meet their commitments.

SPEAKER_00

I'll tell you a bit how we thought about it. So when we're giving stocks actually to people, I feel that they were not valuing, or they were not feeling yet the value of the stock, and rightfully so. Rightfully so. Why? Because the stock wasn't liquid and there's not enough uh precedence in the Middle East. Um so we put a lot of effort in in explaining it, but even if you put a lot of in explaining it, and then at the end of the day you see, I don't know, like you see it on an Excel sheet or on carta, whatever it is, like okay, it is what it is. Um so people used to to think mostly a bit about their uh their their salary, and then stocks like cherry on top until secondary were done. When secondary we're done, everything changed. Because like, okay, I felt oh this is liquid and and all of that. The secondary that we've done, we've done the first time roughly I think four years after starting the business and uh um I I want to do more uh every single year if the company is doing and it continues doing the the way we're doing right now for a couple of reasons. One, I think it's right thing to do. If someone wants to exit, they can exit. If they don't want to exit, then they don't exit. So it's an option. And two, uh if you manage to create liquidity for your stock outside of the public market for a bit longer, and I think there's a lot of companies who are going a bit in that direction, you can breathe more. Because okay, you can you can you can get that liquidity without uh but you can also build with much more freedom. Versus you you've been to an IPO, you you you understand about how uh how the process works much more than me. Um so this is a bit in a nutshell. We've done secondaries in different types, we've done we've done it from uh um enormous secondaries, so an external buyer and sellers, uh either internal or external. Uh internal meaning people in the work in the company or shareholders, and we've bought back from balance sheet as well. So we've uh we've done uh we've done both.

SPEAKER_01

Now, how do you think about that? Because companies say, okay, you're still early, there's still so much growth uh ahead of you, you can deploy money in launching new markets and acquiring other companies. Is buying back shares a good use of money of the company versus when you're at very high growth, the return should always be higher on launching new cities and products.

SPEAKER_00

Heck, I'll tell you, I'll tell you something. We we we were not comfortable doing that in the first four, four or five years, from balance shit, for the reasons that you mentioned. Now the the cost structure that we have in Hospice is very much fixed whenever we want to deploy a new city, like it it's marginal expenses that you put in. So we have a lot of clarity on planning, a lot. So so we feel very comfortable with with that. With us, the way we see the the balance sheet investment and etc. If we feel that we have a strong balance sheet and then you have a very high ROI on a city where let's say you break it break even a city in six or nine months, then okay, you can predict a lot on that part, and then you have a delta, the delta, okay. What can you do? Do you want to buy back shares? Do you want to keep it cash on balance sheet? Uh, and and and and so forth. Now I feel good in planning. Like before, uh being very open, it was too many variables. Uh okay, we're launching it. Like, are we gonna launch it any now? No, we're gonna launch in a bit, like okay, Spain working, yeah, no, yeah, okay, work. Like it's way too many variables. Now I think we can do better planning, and uh it all depends at the end of the day on how much cash you have on balance sheet.

SPEAKER_01

And you're always very focused on the cash point. You mentioned before your biggest fear is always running out of running out of cash now. You're in a much more comfortable uh space, I guess, than before. But how have you navigated this journey? Because again, especially in these times, obviously fundraising has slowed down a bit, especially for earlier stage uh stage companies because of the event. So a lot of founders are worried about running out of cash. Uh again, they don't want to slow down because the problem is if you slow down, you lose momentum, it makes raising even more cash more difficult. So, how do you think about it? And specifically, if I'm in a situation where I have a limited runway, do I slow down to preserve, but then I run the risk that I lose momentum and then I can't raise, or do I just risk it and go all the way to show momentum, but then if I don't raise, I crash? How do I manage it?

SPEAKER_00

I speak about about about this topic a little because we're gonna run out of cash multiple times. So um the last round that we've done, uh me and myself, we had a discussion. It was like, okay, let's raise with uh with a good bulk of cash that that will just sit. So this is why we're okay, we can bring it, but also we have the other things that we mentioned, the same fixed structure and all of that. In my opinion, if momentum dies in a company, you're you're you're out. Like it's so hard to bring momentum back. And this is going back on the first question that you told me. My restoration is high. Like for and especially if the fundamentals are good. And if you tell me you're operating with a business that the margins are good, and etc., and you want to go and take the risk, I I feel money will come. If you have a good good business, like just money will come, especially with good momentum. If you come and say, hey, like, okay, my uh I I raised a seed round, but now I'm at CDZ, and uh the growth rate is not good because it's what I call a lot of English. So so uh then okay, maybe maybe someone will buy it, maybe someone will not buy it. But at the end of the day, like the curve talks to an extent. Maybe in the early stages, okay, you need uh you need the story and the vibus at when you when you cross the I don't know what stage, but when you uh when you cross the series A, series B, um I I I think it's it's number, numbers plus market size, how big can can like it's it's much more objective. I know you you've not sure how much you raised mine, but I know much more than me on that. Like when Hasbro raised roughly around a couple of hundred million and until now, I think you guys did that much more than that. And I feel how how much change with time. And when we've done the last couple of rounds, which what much more on the okay, the PNL, the cohorts, the blood, like the market size, how like this was the the discussion versus initially. Uh tell me a bit what you're building and and all of that.

SPEAKER_01

Now, on one hand, you're you have a very high risk tolerance, but on the other hand, also you mentioned before, it's very important for you to like keep doubting yourself and keep basically questioning yourself all the time because that's also how you improve, etc. How do you balance these two? How do you balance having enough conviction to take a risk while also the humility that I may be wrong and I need to doubt and I need to rethink about things? How do you create this combination?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just on risk, man, it's um I'll tell you a bit just on risk and then I'll I'll speak about the other topic. On risk, if you have something big to lose, like I'll give you an example. Uh in mortgages in the UAE, we have 30% of the market. Um, my opportunity cost on disrupting that is high. So my risk already on that business unit itself is not very high. Like being if tell me I'm launching a new city, like my risk is incredibly high. So so um this is the the first thing. The the what was the second part of the question?

SPEAKER_01

The second part is how do you balance this with still being humble enough to say I'll doubt myself, maybe I'm wrong, I'll keep that doubt element of the of the equation.

SPEAKER_00

So on the on the doubt element, the there's actually someone shareholder in the company that told me that that uh uh I have a reputation of always being paranoid. I am always paranoid. Um and I'll tell you, we we I promise you, and I know every single company says, you don't understand how much how many mistakes we've done. Like I I cannot even explain to you. Like we we've uh like we've we've launched Spain without understanding the labor regulations and initially and the importance of them. We learned that a bit on the fly. We learned the importance of marketing also on the ground. We launch a business unit, the real estate business unit, and two cities at the same time versus so the learning is double versus you launching at at uh and and I always feel that, hey, are we missing something? Like, hey, is is there something in the industry that we operate in that's gonna pop like? I remember two years ago when uh when the AI topic started to become very hot. Uh man, I was speaking with like 20 companies a week. I was so scared that something will pop that that would that can disrupt us. Like I was I was parent, like that was my obsession. Uh now I feel that okay, whenever you especially when you when you're launching something in new a new country, like now we're also planning to launch uh a new business line. And and like, okay, is there something I'm missing? Is there something I'm missing? Is it like okay, there there's no one big in this country, there's no one big in this business line. Why? Why, why, why, why, why, why, why like it's like we're always like like very, very we spend a lot of time there. Once we feel that okay, we have we have come, we launch, but I'm always spending like until the hockey stick is like that, I'm I'm always you feel I'm always scared. And uh so that's a bit too to answer your question.

SPEAKER_01

Jad, someone who listened to our episode today heard you talk about how even a university student, uh part-time working mom can effectively become a real estate broker and effectively make money and can actually make a lot of a lot of money. How can they start? If they want to start from scratch, know about the market, become a broker, work with Huspi, how can they do that?

SPEAKER_00

Uh so I'll tell you so in the in the UAE, uh, because of the structure of the country, because of the residency, uh, you need to go in the residency process. So there's a bit of friction a bit in the process. In Spain and the two countries that that we operate in, the only thing that you need is you need the local phone number and you download the app. Like it's as simple as as download the app, you put your ID, you put your bank account so we can pay you with OKYC online, you start the process. I guess as as uh it's as simple as.

SPEAKER_01

And can you tell us about the residency program here and how can you be uh approved broker in Dubai to also be on the husband? But I know it's more complicated, but what are the steps?

SPEAKER_00

In in Dubai, it's uh so just for for uh for for me to explain. So in Dubai, most people are are expats. So you need to go for you to be able to live here, you need to get a residency process, which husband can do that uh for people, like any other company that that does that. So the the the best way is that you reach out to to us, um we start that process with you, and then you get the same system that you operate in on uh in on other cities, the same technology, uh the same commission structure and and all of that. And if I if if you see the amount of and money people are doing with Hunspit, it's insane. Like it's like I'm I was I was looking a bit at I I look a lot at the data. There's people that that make millions of dollars with us. Wow. Like literally millions of dollars. And I'm really not exaggerating with with uh per year. Um it's normal for someone to make a couple of hundred grand. Like if what when you see the numbers, it's it's an incredible, incredible industry to play in because there's a lot of money in the industry. But I really genuinely believe that we we support people in in the right way possible. And even in a when we feel that, hey, we're not perfect in an element, we say hey, like, hey, we're not ready. Like we say, like when we say like we're ready, we know that we can provide the the best experience possible.

SPEAKER_01

And what are your criteria to accept? So let's say today um I want to come to the UE, or I already I'm in the UE, I want to change my residency, make it on Husky, and start becoming real estate broker. What's the criteria you have? How can I become attractive for the platform?

SPEAKER_00

I'll tell I'll tell you what we what we've seen because that this uh this is in our mind. This industry, and being a real estate broker or mortgage broker, you you you need energy. You know, you go on a visit, you come, you speak, you call. So anyone who is willing to to put that energy out, I think, I think has a chance to to to to be able to do that. So I think that's a personality thing. If you have the personality to be able to do that, we'll we'll give you a shot.

SPEAKER_01

And what differentiates brokers? Like if a broker is listening to us, the ones who got to a few million dollars or a couple of million dollars a year, how did they do it? What's the what what makes uh obviously in addition to the energy? Because I assume that to get to this, you need to get into high size, like villas, etc. Right, to be able to make really that that money. So, how do you get into this like premium segment of the market?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, everyone, you know, you know the beautiful thing, Yusuf, is that everyone has their own niche. They build their own business style. So some people tell you, you know what, my dream is to go to the luxury, what you were mentioning. Some people tell you, like, you know what, I'm gonna own the two these two buildings in downtown. I'm gonna be the specialist in these two buildings. Uh, other people tell you, you know what, and I have a great network in my home country. I'm gonna help people and uh whenever they move, come to to Dubai. So that to each their own. And that's a beautiful thing. Like, you can build your own system on on top of that. In Dubai specifically, in our opinion, there's a couple of things that are incredibly important for someone whenever you look at a company. On the new development, you need a company that helps you to pull inventory out. That's the magic thing. So whenever there's a new launch by one of the big developers, usually demand's so high. You need to be able to pull the inventory out, especially the good inventory, the one that has a good view. And if if a company manages to do that, then I think you will look incredibly well in front of the customer. Because at the end of the day, this is what the customer care cares about. On the secondary side, and what we've seen, you need to specialize in something like either uh a couple of buildings, segment, or if if you're too broad, then I I think it's the market's so big you can get a bit lost in the in the system. But whatever you decide to specialize in will give you a structure for you to be able to do that. Under a structure will give you a lot of data, a lot of automation to be able to do that, and a lot of collaboration with the other agents specializing in the in the in the segment that you decide to do that.

SPEAKER_01

Now, if I'm an end buyer, let's say buying in an off plan in a good project. Now I want to know who are the Huspy uh agents because I assume that you've given them good access, they have, etc. How do I know that as I'm not a broker, so I'm not on your app, I'm just an end user. How do I know who are the good Husby agents?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so there's a couple of ways of doing that. So one, either you go on the portals, you can search on uh per company, you can say Hospia, uh that's one. And two, you can go on the website uh of hospiacangoonhospia.com and you can also direct uh contact us directly there.

SPEAKER_01

And now, based on the data you have, you have data in the UE, in Europe, in different places. If someone today is going through kind of looking at buying the first house or the first apartment, let's say they're buying it for investment. So they're not necessarily buying it where they where they're living, they can buy it anywhere. Uh what are some of the things you're seeing? What are the hottest places today? What are some of the places people should look at because it's really attractive to buy real estate or you're seeing from the data other people are taking that decision?

SPEAKER_00

This is where the value prop comes. No tax. So this is a big part of the value prop. So here when you buy in the year, it's tax-free. So that that because at the end of the day, you're the way you look at investment is what comes out of your pocket at the end of the day, and then when you exit, the the so when what comes to your pocket per month and and when you exit in any country other than here, you're taxed on that perspective. So that's one, too. I think rental yields are high here. People know about that already. So I think you can get uh uh six to eight percent in uh in January, I think in Europe is is uh is less than that. Uh but also if you look here a bit about the fundamental of the country is like you're so risked, and in my opinion, that it's worth the risk. Like, okay, you have a good rental income, the appreciation is good, and uh, etc. In general, my my if I want if I want to say other than the than the UAE, my my I'm a big believer in buying in good locations. Like I'm always a good like it if something happens, like you're good. Like you're always protected. And when someone told me like in good locations, like let's say you buy next to something that that it's very difficult to die, like Dubai Mall, D IFC, like uh like uh Retiro Park in Madrid, like something something that is instrumental in the city where you feel your downside is protected, right? Especially if the land around it is uh is is limited, then your upside becomes a bit clearer. This is a bit how uh high level we we uh we think about. So two taxes and uh I would say location next to something that that's very difficult to die.

SPEAKER_01

Uh and if I'm uh let's say candid, I'm very interested in the husband story you mentioned, you're hiring for some positions on the technology, on the market launch, etc. Uh, how can I apply for these positions? How can I become part of this story?

SPEAKER_00

Of LinkedIn, I think we have like 40-50 roles open at any point in time. That's the uh this is what where we have, and I I have I'm hiring a couple of people in my team as well. And uh so yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And lots of people now are worried about like the first eye screening that most companies are are doing, etc. How can I become like before I get to a place where I can demonstrate my personality with the human, etc., how can I pass through some of these and how can I become attractive?

SPEAKER_00

I don't know, we're not doing that. Okay, so with the opposite that you know, you you'll have uh you have a normal process.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, uh and then uh and then kind of uh maybe the last thing is obviously companies are of course seeing Huspy grow a lot in the prop tech space, etc. If I'm in that prop tech, maybe I'm in something, maybe I'm in fractionalization, I'm in uh tokenization, I'm in any part of that prop tech, etc. What are the opportunities? What are the kind of the business development partnerships, what are the channel partnerships, how can I benefit from that Huspi growth?

SPEAKER_00

So so we we uh very good question. So so I'll I'll I'll tell you what we've done. So in Husby, we we are this is how we look at it. So we uh other than the acquisition that we've done, uh we we look to invest in businesses as well. We're actually looking at one as well right now. And usually if if uh uh the the business that we look to take equity in is things that are complementary to the core. So meaning non-mortgage, not real estate. This is the where we want to play in and and in general. And and mainly what we can provide for these companies is the distribution, which is the the most important thing in real estate and prop tech, etc. So, for example, in the UAE you get the distribution on 30% of the market overnight, for example. That that's great. If you have a global solution, we deploy in all the cities that we uh we up operate under. So this is a bit how we uh uh we uh we think about it.

SPEAKER_01

Interesting. Thank you so so much for the time and all the insights, really appreciate it. Thank you, Yosef. Thanks a lot.

unknown

Thank you.