The Mal Show

Bootstrapped to 10 Markets | The Mal Show (Podcast) with Mustafa Koita

• Mal.ai

Share episode

Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.

0:00 | 1:04:12

Health has become one of the biggest industries in the world. Every day we're sold a new diet, supplement, longevity hack, or wellness trend—but how much of it is real science, and how much is just great marketing?

In this episode of The MAL Show, we sit down with Mustafa Koita, Founder & CEO of Koita, to explore what it really takes to build one of the Middle East's most trusted food brands.

We discuss:

Why he left corporate to build Koita
Bootstrapping vs. raising venture capital
How to build a brand people genuinely trust
Why customer listening beats traditional marketing
The business behind the health and wellness industry
Organic, lactose-free, and plant-based products—what actually matters?
How social media is changing the way we think about nutrition
The biggest mistakes entrepreneurs make when scaling a business
Why Koita shut down its U.S. expansion
Building a long-term company instead of chasing hype
Leadership, resilience, and navigating crises
The legacy every entrepreneur should aim to leave

Whether you're an entrepreneur, marketer, business owner, or simply someone trying to make better health decisions, this conversation is packed with practical insights on business, branding, and consumer trust.

Subscribe for more conversations with founders, investors, and business leaders shaping the future of the Middle East.

Chapters:
0:00 Intro
3:08 Tough Father & Humble Origins
5:17 Career in Defense & Startup Failure
6:44 Anti-Corporate Mindset
8:59 Leaving Corporate
12:20 Baby Steps vs. Go Big
15:08 Why Food & Why Milk
20:13 The GCC Health Crisis
24:33 Health Trends — Vegan, Keto, Ozempic
26:32 Building the Koita Brand
33:30 Shutting Down the US
36:01 Navigating Wars & Supply Chain Crises
40:05 Resilience Through Setbacks
42:33 Naming the Brand After Himself
44:41 Scaling Health Across the Region
48:21 Responsibility & Win-Win Philosophy
53:39 Being Tough on Yourself
55:21 Indian-American-Middle Eastern Identity
58:18 Advice for Aspiring Entrepreneurs
1:01:25 From Corporate to Startup
1:02:41 Advice to Policymakers & Local Suppliers

To get in touch with us: 
podcast@mal.ai

Follow us on Social Media:
https://www.instagram.com/themal.show/
https://www.tiktok.com/@themalshow.podcast
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=61566478614883

To get in touch with Yousef Salem
https://www.linkedin.com/in/youssefsamysalem/?skipRedirect=true
https://www.instagram.com/youssefsamysalem?hl=en

To get in touch with Mustafa Koita
https://www.linkedin.com/in/mustafakoita/

#TheMALShow #MustafaKoita #Koita #Entrepreneurship #Business #Branding #Marketing #HealthyFood #Wellness #Startup #Founder #consumertrust

SPEAKER_00

And I literally started doing a lot of coffee mornings with moms. So I'd ask 10 of my friends to get 10 of their friends. I'll buy everyone coffee. Let me meet them for an hour. Let me talk to mothers and ask them, what are they looking for right now in the market? So to your question, I wasn't trying to convert people. I was trying to listen to people and find out what they want and identifying a gap in the market.

SPEAKER_03

Today's guest is Mustafa Koita, founder and CEO of Koita, the brand that has grown from the UE into one of the region's most recognized names in healthy food and beverage.

SPEAKER_00

You know, there's a lot of health issues in the GCC. I don't know if you know, but like almost more than 60 to 70% of people have lactose intolerance issues, 30 to 40% have cardiovascular issues, 35% have obesity issues, 75% of people have vitamin D issues. So first, I wanted to have impact on health. So I don't feel like Kita is selling milk. I feel like we're selling health. How did you build this brand, Story?

SPEAKER_03

Because I say the first day you launched, you had your Kita milk in the store. Someone walked in, they didn't know what this is, so they picked another box from another company. When is the first time there was like an ability for someone to say, I know, I want to pick up this and what drove that behavior?

SPEAKER_00

You can only focus on making it in one market. And then once you really fully penetrate the market, only then should you go to the second market. Here, I hadn't already fully penetrated the UE, and this is like five, six years ago, and I'm going halfway across the planet. So it divided our management focus, it divided our working capital focus, it divided everything.

SPEAKER_03

So, how do you think about it? Even when it comes to very basic necessity like food, now, depending on your salary and your purchasing power, you're being left with very different options, have very different things. So even health, which should be the most basic thing available for all, is now being segmented and segregated.

SPEAKER_00

You gotta think win-win. Win-lose does not work. It's not a it's not a profitable or sustainable business if you're win-lose. And that short-sightedness, I think, is what happens with a lot of people when they're starting companies, and you can't do it that way. Everyone's got to win, including the retailer, the distributor, us, and the supplier. And you gotta figure it out.

SPEAKER_03

Assalamu alaikum, and welcome to the Mal Show. Health has become one of the biggest industries in the world. Every day, we're surrounded by new diets, supplements, longevity hacks, and wellness trends. But how do you separate real science from marketing? And what does it take to build a brand that people genuinely trust? Today's guest is Mustafa Koita, founder and CEO of Koita, the brand that has grown from the UE into one of the region's most recognized names in healthy food and beverages. His journey spans the corporate world, entrepreneurship, and building a company through disciplined calculated growth rather than chasing hype or easy money. In this episode, we talk about leaving corporate to build something of your own: bootstrapping versus raising capital, earning consumer trust, the rise of health-conscious consumers, the impact of social media on the way we think about nutrition, and why success isn't just measured by revenue, but by the legacy you leave for your children. Don't forget to subscribe to the channel to get the latest episodes of the Mal Show. Let's begin. So I want to start with you from the beginning. You've mentioned before being raised by a tough father. Yeah. How did this shape you?

SPEAKER_00

Look, my father uh grew up in Bombay, India. And when I say tough father, he came from very humble background. You know, he was living in a one-bedroom studio with like nine family members, um, migrated to the U.S., I think, when he was very young with not a lot of money in his pocket, uh, paid for himself to get through school. Uh, and I think he just had a lot of, he had a tough life, didn't have a lot of money. And so when he raised us, even though at that time he had more money, I would say he was probably upper middle class, middle class. He made us live the life of, you know, not having a lot of money. And so that's how he was tough. Uh, I will admit I got a slap here and there, you know, when I was misbehaving. I probably deserved it, most of all, but that's kind of how I'd say he was a he was a tough father.

SPEAKER_03

How do you reflect on that today with your kids? Do you let them live in the same lifestyle that you can afford today, or do you also purposefully try to have them live a little bit beyond what you can otherwise can?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So I obviously I'm making more money than my father. Um, and we live in Dubai, you know, which has a lot of abundance of everything. I think I try to have them live lower than what they can't afford, but I don't do a great job of it. And I have to say, I have to say, I have two daughters and a son. I think the daughters get away with a little bit more, you know, leniency for me. I like to spoil them, especially the youngest gets a little spoiled. My son, I'm a little tougher on him, and I don't think that's the right way of doing it, but I just got to keep it real and say that's sort of how I've been doing it. But I do try and, you know, make sure they understand the value of money. Uh, I try and make them earn things. I remember when they were growing up, I'd have them sign contracts at a very young age for certain things they wanted. So that's how I'm trying to do it in bits and pieces. I'm not doing it great, but I could probably do a better job.

SPEAKER_03

Think being tougher on the on the sun is just an emotional thing, or is it still some Eastern heritage that we all have?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, Danielle, he gets a bad deal. You know, Serena and Sophia's sisters get it easy, but I think you're right. It's a little bit of that Eastern heritage, but you know, that's how it is.

SPEAKER_03

Uh you then took on a career in defense. Why defense and how do you see that career?

SPEAKER_00

So, look, I got into the defense business kind of by luck. You know, at the time I was in some startups, I'd just gotten married, and I needed a stable career. And I think one of the startups that I was at failed. And so I literally was just applying, and I just happened to apply for a sales position at a defense company, and I got the job. I was hustling and I got the job. And that's I didn't I didn't want to be in defense. I wasn't looking for it. I just needed a job, and that was at a very young age, I got that job.

SPEAKER_03

What did you learn from that startup failure?

SPEAKER_00

So a couple things. Um, at that second startup, I remember the founder at the time, it was during the dot-com bubble. So people were raising money at the time. And I felt like they were more interested in how it was like an investor-driven business plan. It wasn't a consumer-driven business plan. And at that time, people were just raising money to raise money. They'd raise money, throw a huge party, blow through it, and then raise the next round. Because that back then in the dot-com bubble, valuation just kept going up the more you lost money, right? And um, so I think what I learned from that is that you need a consumer-driven business plan, not an investor-driven business plan.

SPEAKER_03

So even though after this failure you did go into the fence in a corporate in a in a way, you stayed what you labeled as anti-corporate. Why?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think I was in corporate for a lot of my career, like in large, you know, $100 million plus companies. I think when you say the word anti-corporate, I don't know if if I'm answering your question, I think because I I was always an entrepreneur inside, I didn't like some of the confines of corporate America, the political correctness, the processes were long processes. I was maybe it's a bad uh trait, but I was very impatient. Uh, I wanted to get from point A to B. I didn't want to have to go through, let's call it the corporate ass kissing or the community, the committee decision making. And so I think those are the aspects of anti-corporate that that I think I've always had inside me. And that's probably why I became an entrepreneur.

SPEAKER_03

Political correctness in the US, that's always a highly debated area on whether that's what allows immigrants to come in, what allows the whole society to kind of to mix together, what allows everyone to stay away from their differences and focus on building together, or is that something that limits freedom of speech, limits the ability of people to be themselves and creates this artificial kind of construct that we all have to stick in not to offend each other?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean, I think when I think of political correctness, I think of two areas of it when you ask that question. It's a good question. One is being able to say what you want to say, regardless of who your boss is, who controls your salary and your position at the company, like telling them if they think they're wrong and stuff like that. And two is how you say it, saying it in a respectful way, challenging your boss in a way to say, hey, instead of, hey, I think you're wrong, hey, you know, have you thought of it from this point of view? And if you do it this way, this is how it benefits the company. You know, so the delivery is the second part. And I I bel I believe that um you should always be able to, you know, I think some business cultures don't allow people to disagree with the boss. And that part I think is not very healthy at times, but how you communicate it, I think is an area that you can you you can do things differently, and it and I think is very healthy. And I think I I dissect it in those two parts. I don't know if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_03

Makes perfect sense. Yeah. You did end up leaving corporate uh to start your own business. How much of that is a calculated decision that more freedom can allow you to generate more returns and do more things that you want to do versus kind of a midlife crisis rebellion type moment where you just want freedom?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I think it was a combination of both. Uh, and also when I left corporate and jumped into the world of entrepreneurship, uh part of it is I also didn't have a choice. I was being let go of. I was at Boeing on the defense side, they had some restructuring, you guy came in, we didn't really see eye to eye. And he he, you know, I I wasn't what he wanted. He had like his management team. So that was part of it. Um the second part of it was I think deep down inside, I think one of the reasons they want to let me go is I wasn't really made for corporate, especially Boeing, which is a very a wonderful company, but it's a it's like a process-driven company, you know, and I'm not very process-driven. Now I've become more process-driven as I've matured as an individual and a manager and a CEO. But I think that um, you know, some of it, it was a combination of both. I didn't have a choice, and I I had that rebellious entrepreneur inside me. I think that when you put those two together in the timing of where I was in my life, that's why I left.

SPEAKER_03

Do you see it as a like as a cycle? You like you you go from within the system, then you kind of rebel against it. But then ultimately, as you build your own thing and you scale it, you reach a moment where you realize these processes are needed to kind of be able to operate at that scale. And then you kind of become a version of what you've kind of rebelled against.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, to a certain extent, yes. However, there's a balancing act. Like, you know, there's things on the spectrum. You can have like Fortune 500 corporate process, and then you can have, you know, as the startup, which is like four or five people, right? Those are two uh opposite ends of the spectrum. And I think where we are, you know, I think your process has to grow with what size you are in the company. Because as I've learned, sometimes it's good to have process. If you just have one person, me, making the decision and there's no checks and balances, when you make bad decisions, it can go really horribly wrong, right? And I've learned that the hard way. If you have some processes where you're checking with your people, so I think you can't overprocess, but you can't underprocess. And you and it changes as you evolve as a company. So, COITA, when we are one year old, the processes were different than when we were five and now 10 years old.

SPEAKER_03

A lot of people are not made for corporates. You can argue that in an average, a human doesn't necessarily made up to sit in one place from from nine to five. However, we do have bills, we do have responsibilities. You've had a family, three kids. So, how do you balance that kind of desire against practical realities on the ground when making such a decision to leave a corporate to starting your own business?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, it's a balancing act and it's it's two conflicting emotions, right? One, you're excited about the opportunity of starting a new company, and then you're also scared, like, am I gonna give up the paycheck? Right. And then you've got a family, you got to put food on the table. And so I think that it's very natural for anyone to feel a little scared. But I think that's where you what I did is I took baby steps. And so I took a baby step, I started investigating the opportunity. Then I, you know, set up the company. I didn't spend, I didn't go big or go home. I did it in baby steps and started building my confidence up so that I could slowly kind of like jump into that space with like baby steps. And I think that's what helped me versus thinking of a transition from black to white. I kind of went from black to gray to white. And that's kind of what helped me, I think, transition into the world of entrepreneurship and the risks associated with that.

SPEAKER_03

On that baby step, some people sometimes worry that if I start small, it will always be very small from here because I will start, my numbers will be low. So if I start to raise funds, it will be small, or if I try to attract people, it will be small. So, in order for me to really do something, I have to go big out of the gate, go get, raise a lot of money, hire the best of the best. So when I launch, I can make a splash and I can really make an make an impact. How do you see that versus the approach you took?

SPEAKER_00

So I think I have to take a step back and say that I think it depends what business you're in. I think if you're in a time-sensitive business where at the time during the dot-com business or even in AI, it was like the first to market kind of wins and grabs the share because it's a very fast trend that's that's that's happening, or Uber versus Lyft. You know, like you have a short time period and the first one to grab onto this trend wins. And in that case, I think going big is is really important because you want to try and grab share before the first guy does. And and and sometimes the investment community is supporting that. However, in my situation, I I don't believe in go big or go home because I had a different set of requirements and what I wanted to do. I wanted to build something long-term in the food business, which doesn't cycle as fast as maybe the tech business, right? And I truly believe that taking baby steps for me was smarter because one, I didn't want to have to be dependent on raising lots of money, right? And taking on the responsibility of that. That was one. I wanted something that I could self-finance. And if you self-finance, growing slow allows you to self-finance. The second thing is that I felt like taking baby steps allows you to make less expensive mistakes in the beginning. So let's say I launch two products and I want to be in 10 markets. I'd rather launch two products and be in one market, learn what works or what doesn't work, is the marketing working, is the packaging working, is the recipe working, and then kind of clean it up and then scale into nine other markets. And I think that's a I think that actually helps you get from point A to B faster versus launching into 10 markets and making a lot of mistakes across 10 markets, which can be very expensive. I don't know if that analogy makes sense. Makes perfect sense. But that's that's how I I think it depends on what market you're going after and what your personal goals are. But for me, taking baby steps has always worked.

SPEAKER_03

And why was it the food business for you?

SPEAKER_00

Well, a couple of reasons. I was in defense earlier and I wanted something that I didn't have to raise a lot of money in the beginning. If I was going to start a defense company or a tech company, I think you'd have to raise some money. So I wanted something I could self-fund. Uh, and that comes back to freedom. I wanted some freedom in the beginning. I think two is I wanted a business that wasn't very cyclical. And the defense business, you know, if you had a you know, if you had a war, you had something happening geopolitically in the US versus the Middle East, you know, it really didn't matter what you did. It was very up and down, you know, up and down. So and so what I liked about food, it's not very cyclical. Whether you're going through an up upturn or a downturn, food is just slowly growing like this. So it's not fast money, but I just like the fact that food, and I also like the fact that food is something that's tangible. So, like if I was going to give it to my kids, they would understand it. If it was something very technical and unique, they might not understand. So those are some of the things that were going through my mind. And the last thing about food is I was also myself going through a midlife crisis and becoming more healthy. I was unhealthy. And I realized that part of being healthy isn't just the exercise. It starts with what you eat and your sleep. And so food was really important to me and something I was passionate about back then.

SPEAKER_03

That's a very constructive midlife crisis to be going from unhealthy to healthy. Usually midlife crisis is doing something crazy.

SPEAKER_00

There were some crazy unconstructive parts of it. I'm telling you what the constructive parts were of it, you know, which is was come coming up with the business idea.

SPEAKER_03

And why milk specifically? There's so many different unhealthy foods that we eat.

SPEAKER_00

Uh while a couple of reasons. One is I've always wanted to have impact on health in the region. As you know, you know, there's a lot of health issues in the GCC. I don't know if you know, but like almost more than 60 to 70% of people have lactose intolerance issues. Um, you know, 30 to 40% have cardiovascular issues, 35% have obesity issues, 75% of people have vitamin D issues. So first, I wanted to have impact on health. So I don't feel like COIDA is selling milk. I feel like we're selling health. Now, if I want to have impact on the population in the GCC or the Middle East, I want to take food products that have high volume intake. So, like tea, for example, you buy a box of tea once every two weeks and you have a tea here and there. But the the areas that people are consuming on a kids are consuming on a daily basis are milks and meats. And so when I pick between milk and meat, I said, okay, let me pick milk because my kids and I love milk, lactose-free milk, regular milk, uh, plant-based milks. And so that's what made me choose. Well, it's one of the reasons that made me choose milk because I felt like if I make a healthy milk, I can have more impact on people.

SPEAKER_03

On these intolerances uh point, now, obviously, on one hand, you have a lot of the scientific evidence and studies backing all of these intolerances. On the other hand, people look at the statistics now and say all of a sudden you have this massive spike in people who are who are intolerant. Is that an actual result of the type of things we consume? Is that just it wasn't known before and it became known now? And if and if it wasn't known before, then just how do people survive all of this without these new products?

SPEAKER_00

Well, look, I think a couple of things have happened in the food business. I think food is becoming, because it needs to scale and bring the cost down, it's becoming more and more processed, right? And so uh the more processed food that people are consuming, and people are also exposed to a different environment. People are driving, they're not walking, people are on their phones, they're not, you know, outside playing, you know, active physical activity. So I think I think part of it is your lifestyle has changed, and two, the food quality has changed. And so at Koita, what I saw in the milk business is I realized that, for example, in milk, my my daughter Serena had this issue. She was drinking milk and it was full of hormones and antibiotics and pesticides. Now you put hormones in a cow because you want a cow to create more milk, right? Instead of five liters for milk example, it does 10 liters. I'm just giving for an idea. And so, but the other problem is if that hormone's in the milk, it goes into your body and it could cause problems, right? So I was like, I need to create clean milk. So I want to buy milk that it might be more expensive because my cows aren't producing double the milk that a hormone cow is drinking, but it needs to be free from hormones. And so that's to get to the kind of the point that you're making, I wanted to make sure that people were consuming a healthier, free-from products, free from hormones, free from cholesterol, you know, less cholesterol, free from lactose and those kinds. And I think I guess I'm telling you that's how I see the environment, and that's how we kind of responded to it with our milks.

SPEAKER_03

But when we say the people, ultimately this is a very small, specific group of people who can afford that type of kind of price points of these alternative products, right? So, how do you think about that even when it comes to very basic necessity like food, now, depending on your salary and your purchasing power, you're being left with very different options, have very different. So even health, which should be the most basic thing available for all, is now being segmented and segregated.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, absolutely. Look, I feel that health food, whether it's organic, lactose-free, when it came onto the market, because the volume of consumption was less, the price points were also high. And so what's now happening in the trend that I'm seeing is as volume increases and the supply chain starts adapting around, hey, we need to make more lactose-free milk, hey, we need to make more plant milks, hey, we need to make more organic milk, the price points are starting to come down. Uh, you know, for example, and I and I think our milks are within range of affordability because we we're not just selling in super premium stores, we're also in some of the mass market stores. But, you know, a carton of organic milk, uh, uh, a liter of milk can be anywhere between 12 and 15 dirhams. You know, a red bull is around 12 to 15 dirhams. So we're we're kind of getting close. We're trying to make it more and more accessible to everybody.

SPEAKER_03

And how much of this kind of, let's say, awareness that you're seeing with people is kind of social media playing a role in driving that?

SPEAKER_00

Social media is uh almost becoming a new source for the younger generation, you know. So social media has a lot to do with it. Um, you know, education, you know, when I was in school, we had, you know, a healthy eating class. I felt lucky. That was very unique back then, you know, where a nutritionist came in. Uh, but that doesn't happen often. But I think social I think to your question, social media is a big source of where people are consuming information on their health. And uh yeah, it's very important nowadays.

SPEAKER_03

Do you you you mentioned before? Kind of cardiovascular diseases as one of the key things uh that you're solving for is there kind of research and evidence around alternative types of milk and food helping bring that down?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I mean it depends like for example, when I look at the big four, there's big uh uh like at COITA, we're always brainstorming how do we solve the big four? And the big four is lactose intolerance, cardiovascular, obesity, uh, vitamin D. Those are kind of like really, really big ones, right? And so when it comes to obesity, it depends. Every person has different health requirements. And based on your health requirements, is the milk that you should have. So if you're lactose intolerant, we've created a lactose-free line, which is made from dairy milk, but is it your stomach can digest well. Um, if you're trying to avoid hormones and antibiotics and you want a clean milk, you can also have organic milk. So kids are usually product and moms are buying our organic milk. If you're trying to lower your cholesterol and fat, we have plant milks, right, that have low cholesterol, low fat. You need a milk substitute. And then we have almond, oat, and coconut milk, for example, depending on your taste profile. So we're kind of what we've done is every range is kind of targeting one of the big four health issues in the region.

SPEAKER_03

And how much of that, let's say, almond, et cetera, are you seeing is again back to the health point. And how much is it becoming a trend that you're more fancy, you're more premium, you're more kind of upper class if you are consuming alternative types of products?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, I define trend as something that's short-term. And maybe when you say trend, people aren't buying it for long-term health stability issues, just buying because it's like the cool thing to do, right? Um, and then uh consistency, like a like a non-trend, is something that people keep buying year after year after year. And so the plant milks, for example, came onto the market. I think they were really popular six, seven years ago. I found that plant milks and you know, people going vegan was like a really big thing for a while. Maybe you heard about it too. And then I I I've seen it kind of come down a little bit, but it's still a very sustainable business. Like plant milks are almost 25% of our of our revenues right now, and it's consistent. So people are, I think people got excited about it, but people still do continue to have almond milk in their coffee, for example, or oat milk, or but I feel like dairy is still a very huge the the cow dairy still is a huge element that's very sustainable and still is there. But the plant milks have come in and they've they've taken a share, and I think they're gonna be here for a while.

SPEAKER_03

On the vegan point, because obviously we've had times around okay, you know, vegan is the most fancy, now it's uh kind of carnivorous, now it's the key to and some things got mixed up between like losing weight, between being more more healthy, between like ethical uh reasons, and then now with Ozempik and Manjaro, also the kind of the health point kind of went away a little bit because sorry, the weight loss because they can do weight loss in alternative ways. So, kind of where do you see the settling?

SPEAKER_00

The settling. You know, I think a couple trends that I've noticed, and I'm not no one has a crystal ball, but I've noticed that people are looking at the number of ingredients, right? That's a big thing. When people buy a pack of milk, they usually just pick it up. Now, when people buy a pack of milk, they pick it up and they turn it to the side and they want to see what ingredients are in there. So I think when you say where are people settling, I think people are concerned. Like, for example, our plant milks have less than five or six ingredients and no added sugar. Whereas plant milks can have a lot, 10. Our competition has almost double and they add a lot of fructose and sugar. So we've noticed that our consumers like looked looking at the ingredients. Um, I think that, you know, the quality standards, you know, people want to know that when they're sourcing from you, that you've got stringent quality standards. What are the certifications that you have? So those are kind of the trends that I'm starting to see where things are settling. And that's been a shift because honestly, like 10 years ago, people weren't buying the milk and looking to, they would just buy it, you know. And so now people are becoming more conscious of how it's sourced, what are the ingredients, what are the quality standards. People are looking at the story behind the brand. And those are trends for that, and that's part of the reason that Koida is here today, because we've been a benefactor of that awareness.

SPEAKER_03

And how did you build this brand story? Because I say the first day you launched, you had your Koita milk in the store. Someone walked in, they didn't know what this is, so they picked another bottle from another company. When is the first time there was like an ability for someone to say, I know, I want to pick up this? And what drove that behavior?

SPEAKER_00

So I don't think we drove a behavior. I think Koita was responding to a behavior. And so I don't know if a lot of people know about the origins of our company, but when I started the business over a decade ago, before I even launched and sourced and came up with the packaging, I spent a lot of time talking to people. And so I did a lot of proprietary primary research. I didn't have a lot of money at the time to hire big research companies or anything. And I literally started doing a lot of coffee mornings with moms. So I'd asked 10 of my friends to get 10 of their friends. I'll buy everyone coffee, let me meet them for an hour, and let me talk to mothers and ask them, what are they looking for right now in the market? Right. So to your question, I wasn't trying to convert people. I was trying to listen to people and find out what they want and identifying a gap in the market, right? And so when I talked to mothers, they were like, listen, uh, we want organic milk because there's not a lot of clean alternatives. Um, we want, you know, the fresh organic milk costs 25 derums and it's air freighted, not good for the environment. We wish that there was something that was UHT. Okay, fine, but UHT doesn't usually taste good. Uh, and we don't know if there's a lot of preservatives in it, or we want something that's high fat content, right? Or we want vitamin D in our milk. So I started listening and learning, and I realized that from mothers, there was a massive gap in the in the in Dubai and the UAE. And so then I listened and I saw, okay, people want organic milk. They want UHT, but they want it to taste good, they want vitamin D. They want high fat content. And then I went out and started sourcing and qualifying and finding the good, the good milk. I learned that it was for kids. So the packaging should speak to children. Like our Koida milks have a cool cartoon count in it. And then I created the product based on listening. And I had very I had very little marketing money, zero, man. I had nothing, man, compared to the big guys. So to get to your first question, when I put it on the shelf, I didn't have to convince people. There was already a crowd of people that were dying and wanting that product. And so that's what made it move, is because I just listened.

SPEAKER_03

And on listening, because you came from a sales background where you were used to having a product and then kind of pushing it on people almost. How did you make this kind of mind shift to going from talking to people to listening to people?

SPEAKER_00

As a salesperson, I think one of the reasons I was successful is I think salesmanship is not convincing people to do stuff. Good salesmanship is listening to people, right, from the get-go. And this is something I've been doing for 30, 40 years before I started COIDA. And then being honest about what the service or the product that you're providing, does it fit the person or not? And you build a lot of credibility when you talk to consumers and say, hey, you know, for example, your supermarket is at a certain price point. No one's gonna pay 12 derms for a liter of milk. I'm not your right fit. And so I think listening, being honest, being authentic, and I reflected those values in the brand and who and what the product was. It was honest, authentic, and simple, right? And so to answer your question, I was always a salesperson that listened, and that's what we've we've done at Koida.

SPEAKER_03

On the authenticity point, because one of the things you mentioned is you can ultimately say whatever you want to people, but people need to trust that there are that what you're saying is true and there aren't extra uh preservatives, etc. And obviously that the regulatory front helps if you're in a market where also the consumer trusts the regulator. Yeah, yeah. But how do you go to this point where, okay, not only am I telling you it's only a few ingredients, but you're really trusting that what I'm telling you is true.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think it's that trust was built over, you know, we've been around for a decade and we've been delivering milk consistently at a high quality standard. Everything that we put on the label is what's in the product. Um, our service is very honest and transparent. If we make a mistake with logistics or something, we admit it. Um, so it's not just the product, it's also the service and that, and I think it's just that consistency of building trust. And so when people buy a pack of koida, they just don't have to worry, right? That's a lot of research that we learned. Is mothers are like, when I buy koida, I just don't have to worry like what's in it, and it's clean. And so that's a byproduct of just lots of time and effort. There isn't a silver bullet where you just snap your fingers and you get trust. It's it's how you've been for consistently for a deck for a decade. And that's what we've done.

SPEAKER_03

You said the bottle has to speak to the customer, has to speak to the to the kids. It's having three kids yourself kind of help in trying to understand what really kind of yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And the kids, I mean, from so many different angles. Look, the kids inspired me. I don't know if you know, but Serena, my eldest daughter, couldn't drink regular milk. And so I created organic milk for her, and she could then consume milk. My son Danielle had lactose intolerance. So I create, I ended up creating the lactose freeline because Danielle just couldn't produce, couldn't digest regular milk. And then Sophia just couldn't drink regular milk, and I created plant plant milks for if I had a fourth child, I'd have a fourth range of milks, you know, right now. So one, they inspired me, but two, kids are beautiful because they're just brutally honest. There's no formality, especially my kids. They're like, Baba, you know, this packaging, it sucks. We don't want it, doesn't, you know. So I think also as I was creating the packaging, when I created the cow, Serena, I was like, Serena, this is this milk is for you. What do you think of it? And so she was giving me feedback on the designs. And so that's another area where the kids influenced, you know, what we're doing. Or like we go to schools, we spent a lot of time going to American School, Dubai, or gem school and working with them. And so the kids had a big part of how we developed the product and how we rolled it out.

SPEAKER_03

On that point, in terms of schools in the UE and more generally, just being able to start out of the out of the UE. Now you're kind of in 10 markets. How was how important was that to start here? And how does this kind of facilitate the growth after that?

SPEAKER_00

Well, the UE is one of the toughest markets to succeed in because everyone wants to be here. Everyone knows that this is a showcase market, and if you can make it here, you can make it in a lot of places. The other thing is it's a real it's the geographics are are are so close to you're close to so many people. You're close to the Saudi market, Kuwait market, the the the Levant, India is close by. So, you know, so you're like you're geographically in the center, I think, of all the emerging markets. So those are two reasons why if you make it work here, you can make it work in a lot of places, you know, and so um and also I think the UAE is kind of a very entrepreneurial uh country in its own. I mean, it's a young country. I think the leadership like like uh breeds and lives entrepreneurship in the way they think. And so that also helped while I was developing the company, uh deploying it, but it's a good springboard to the rest of the world.

SPEAKER_03

And you've obviously made it work here, made it work in nine other countries as well, but you did shut down the US. Yeah. What happened there?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So I launched in the I'm American, right? And I learned a big lesson, right? And and so I think when I when when I was very successful in the UA and other markets, all my friends are like, hey, why don't you launch it in America? And I was like, wow, that would be great. I'd love to have my pack in stores where all my ex-girlfriends shop, you know? Uh, but jokes aside, you know, my family, my family's still there. So I wanted to be in in the States. And there's a, there's if you're in America, it's just like such a big ego point, you know? And that's when I quickly learned that you can't make decisions based on your ego. You got to make decisions on what's best for your company. And what I realized is that one, we're a growing SME at the time. And when you're in Dubai and you want to launch a product halfway across the world in the largest FMCG market in the world, you need to be close to your market, right? So that's one thing that I learned the hard way. We launched, I think we were in like 300 locations. We got all the distribution, but you know, you need to be in the market because things come up. People want to communicate with you. You need to talk to the consumer base. Two was focus, right? And I think focus is the biggest thing. You're you can only focus on making it in one market. And then once you really fully penetrate the market, only then should you go to the second market. Here, I hadn't already fully penetrated the UE, and this is like five, six years ago, and I'm going halfway across the planet. So it divided our management focus, it divided our working capital focus, it divided everything, you know, our marketing spent, all that stuff. And so it wasn't like we everything was like going down the drain, but it just wasn't growing at the rate that I wanted it. And we made a tough decision. My board member and I and our management team had a talk, and we're like, the return here is not worth all the sweat and tears that's going into it. And so we shut it down. And although it was never great for your ego to say we failed in this market, but as soon as we shut it down, we had more focus, more working capital, more marketing dollars going to the UA. And we just instantly saw our bottom line improve.

SPEAKER_03

And what do you do differently now in the nine other markets you launch after that to make sure do?

SPEAKER_00

So even now we really focus on our core markets. And I'd say we're a little bit more reactive in our non-core markets. So we're in nine markets, but we're really focused on the on the ones that we've really fully penetrated. And and there's a lot of growth actually in the UAE, tons of it. You know, we're not fully penetrated here. Um, and so that's I think the learning.

SPEAKER_03

On one hand, you have the incredible growth, but obviously on the other hand, you had the recent events, which must have been a challenge for the business. So, how did you navigate that?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, look, I mean, the geopolitical issues have been it's a tough neighborhood, you know, to do business in. I think. And we'd been through COVID, then there was uh the Russia-Ukraine war, which created a lot of spikes in inflation, then the Red Sea shut down, and then most recently the Straits of Hormuz shut down. And we're a seafreight company. A lot of our milk is moved by seafreight. So it was honestly very difficult, but I think there were some amazing silver linings and learnings. I think it made us more resilient as a company. So I'll tell you what we did. Number one is instantly we ran out of milk because it was stuck. It wasn't getting through, right? And so what we noticed is that there was demand for our milk throughout the this period. People wanted to buy our milk, but we couldn't get the supply, right? So our revenue numbers came down. So what do you that impacts cash flow, right? So we had to do a couple things. One is we had to um, you know, go to the banks and the government and leverage a little bit and make sure that we had a little bit of cash cushion to get us through sort of the rainy days right now on the cashless side. Number two is we had to reduce our GNA. So we had to make a lot of tough decisions. So as you know, in the region, we did that through, unfortunately, we had to uh let go of some people. We had to reduce salaries a little bit, not too much. And that was like part two, right? So we brought our our break-even point down because our revenues were coming down. We had, you know, leverage up to give us cash cushion. The other thing that we started doing is we started looking at a lot of our suppliers, could we procure things more locally? You know, so we started accelerating some of that local exploration, which is a really interesting project. The other thing that we started doing is, you know, when you tighten your belt, you get creative. So we started AI has really had a big impact on the region and everywhere around the world. So there were a lot of things that we were spending money on a certain aspect or capability. And we we found that by leveraging AI, we were able to reduce GNA independency further. And so we had we so we I would say the silver lining is that it was a real it's still a tough uh period, but we learned to do more with less, basically. And that and and and what's great is some of those savings, we will keep them permanent. And as we, you know, as now we're coming out of this period, we'll we'll have a lower break-even point that's healthier for the company.

SPEAKER_03

On this point round, when you kind of needed to reduce the payroll that you are you are paying because of the lower revenues, it's kind of two schools of thought here, right? The school of thought that says kind of just let go of people, but the people that you are keeping, keep them on full salary or as high a salary as possible to keep them motivated. There's another school of thought that says we need to be a bit more communal. This is a time of crisis, let's avoid letting people go. We all take a bit of a haircut and then we grow back in uh together. Sounds like you were trying to do a bit of a combination of both.

SPEAKER_00

We ended up doing a hybrid model. So we didn't want to lower salaries to a point where it was unlivable. So our salary cuts, I would say, relative to what I've heard from my friends that own companies, was very small. Uh, and then we didn't let go of so many people. We let go of like the bare necessities, right? So I I ended up, you know, I never think it's either one or the other. I think there's sometimes a middle ground. And I feel like we we created a healthy balance. We've also got something that we're implementing in our company. We're very transparent with our employees. And honestly, I'm blessed. I have an amazing, amazing team. We're also giving our team a path transparently on how payrolls will come up. So as soon as we get out of this and we have like a few consistent quarters, you know, we want to be transparent that we want to bring salaries back up again and maybe give them some upside, you know, and so that's what we're looking at right now.

SPEAKER_03

Now, you've been through a few of these challenging times with COVID and the wars. You've also kind of been through a couple of uh failures before that current business as well. How has all of this like shaped your approach to potential setbacks to how you continue through them? How do how do you approach it?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, so look, I think because I've been through a lot of as an entrepreneur, you know, like every every year or two, there's uh there's all there's this stuff happening. And I was joking uh earlier, but like I just wish we had a boring year. Like a boring year of business would be amazing. But there, you know, that's the what's that's what you sign up for when you're an entrepreneur. And when you're an entrepreneur, the the analogy that comes to mind is entrepreneurship is like jumping off a cliff and building your plane on the way down. You know, that's that I feel like that's my life. But to answer your question, which is a great question, is that every single setback, um, I've gotten through it, you know, and when you get through it, I've realized that you have to be composed. And in the earlier years, I wasn't as composed, right? I would freak out a little bit. And you know, you learn who to lean on, you learn to be curious, and you learn to be very pragmatic. And, you know, you just got to take it one day at a time, right? And you have to believe in yourself. And so every one of those setbacks, COVID, Russia-Ukraine war, the hormuz streets, now this one, um, I think the emotional playbook is like you'll get through this. So I've built a lot of self-confidence. And so even when this thing happened, I was able to use a lot of the playbook that we went through COVID in the region for for now. It kind of there were a lot of elements that were similar to COVID, not totally similar, but some. And so to answer your question, the more past struggles help help us with the future struggles, basically. And I'm like, okay, I'll get through it.

SPEAKER_03

But this time there is kind of an added pressure because previously it was different startups, but now you've decided to put the family name on the business, which makes it a bit more personal, moves it from being just a startup into being a family business. So why did kind of you decide to add this additional layer of pressure? Oh, you mean naming it after the last one? Naming it, naming it after the same.

SPEAKER_00

So so that's an so that has a double-edged sword. You're right. And when I name Koida, a lot of people in the FMCG business are like, never name it after your last name because it becomes personal and all this kind of stuff. And then I asked my um, you know, someone in my family who's a very successful food entrepreneur, and he said, Hey, Mustafa, what do you want to do with this business? He's like, Do you want to like, you know, turn it on and raise a little bit of money and sell it to a private equity or something? And I was like, No, I want to, I want to build something meaningful and I want to like have impact on health. Um, and whether that's with the partner or not, I want to, it's like a it was a long-term thing. And he's like, Listen, put your name on it. And I'm like, why? He's like, because then you'll treat it, you won't cut corners, you'll treat it like it's one of your fourth child, you know. And what's funny is when I named it Koida, I actually did that. Like it's funny, I went to Singapore and where our products are in Singapore, you know, in Vietnam. And I'll walk into the aisles and I'll see and I'll start merchandising the packs, you know. And I don't know if I'd do that if it had didn't have my last name on it, or the way I treated my employees, or the way we're honest with communications. Like it's my family name. So it actually holds the double-edged sword is it's personal, but the double-edged sword is that you hold yourself to a very high standard. And if it wasn't my name, I don't know if people would would treat it differently or not, you know.

SPEAKER_03

Is that also part of the reason why you don't want to raise so much funds? One one reason you mentioned is to have more freedom, but are you also trying to reduce dilution and preserve more equity for the family in that business?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, of course you want you want freedom to a certain extent, you know. And I think that, especially in the first 10 years, I wanted to preserve that freedom. And I love what I do. Honestly, it's so fun to have like a mother call you up and say, My son never drank milk uh until your lactose free milk, and now he's got a smile on his face and he doesn't cry as much. You know, I get those. So I love that part of the business. Um, and I think, you know, uh, yeah, it does make you want to have your freedom. But then at a certain point, I think as I've Matured as a person. Now I want to scale health, right? And I think now going forward, we may partner with someone, you know, in the future. I'm not sure what we're going to do, but we want to do what's best for the business.

SPEAKER_03

Do you want your kids to run that business at some point?

SPEAKER_00

You know, I don't know. I, you know, from all my friends that have generational businesses, there's so many here in the UAE, right? I think it's never a good idea to force your kid into something they have to, like, you know, Serena has her path, Danielle has his path, Sophia has her path. So I don't think I'll ever force the kids into the business. If they want to join, they're more than welcome. But I don't think I'll force it on them. From what I've learned from other family business friends that I've spoken to.

SPEAKER_03

You said you want to scale health. What does the success of scaling health look like for you?

SPEAKER_00

Oh look, to me, what's exciting is I look at the GCC health statistics and I look at, you know, I think it's 70-something percent of people have lactose intolerance. 35% of people or around that amount either die or have cardiovascular issues. Uh, 30, almost a third have obesity issues. The vitamin D deficient, to me, my big, you know, why, our north store is could I bring those, could I go to the health ministers in the UAE and say, hey, your percentage of obesity and lactose intolerance has come down because I've been able to scale health. So to me, that's exciting. And I think you can do there's so much opportunity to do that in the food business through functional health, you know, and I see massive opportunities through functional milks, protein, all these things. So that would, that's exciting to me.

SPEAKER_03

So do you see it more as I've kind of created this milk product, I'm gonna take it and scale it geographically so more people can benefit from it? Or is it kind of I'm really health first if I'm here in the UE or other core markets, I want to keep going to adjacent other food products and create more of a full healthy FM.

SPEAKER_00

So there's there's two ways to scale, right? And I look at COITA as a platform, right? We've built 10 years of trust with this brand, right? People pay for this brand because they pay for not having to worry, right? So we have that uh we have that value. The brand is there. So that's one platform, right? Two, we've got very strong distribution and penetration, obviously here in the UAE. And you you can, you can, you can you I think applying that playbook to other adjacent product categories is one. So, like we're in, we're in, you know, lactose-free plant-based milks and organic milk, you know, protein, functional milks, all these other things are one you can scale. And the other thing is adjacent geographies. So obviously, you know, everyone in the GCC is like, what's your Saudi, you know, thing? What's your Kuwait thing? You know, and so I think those are two ways of doing it. I don't think it has to be one or the other. I think it could be a combination of the two. And but I really am focused on right now this region and my North Star is how do I bring the health percentages down, the health problem percentages down.

SPEAKER_03

And now that all the kind of giant FMCG companies are waking up to see how independent players like yourselves have become more agile, moved in, et cetera, and they're trying to revamp their portfolios to look more healthy, to acquire healthy brands. How do you see the competition?

SPEAKER_00

I think it's great for the business. You know, actually, when more people start supporting this thing, it grows the market. So it's very, you know, people are like, oh, I got this guy's coming in, he's gonna take my share. Actually, I remember in Saudi in one of the stores, uh, one of our competitors came into the market and their spending power was so big on a certain range of product, and our sales were like the highest ever because they were growing the category, right? And there's a lot of penant, you know, the addressable market size for milk is $2.5 billion in the GCC alone. Okay. And of that, shelf stable milk is about a billion, and the Kagger growth rate is quite high. So, man, there's a lot of room to maneuver. And what what the trend that we're seeing is that people, that healthy, living, functional component within that $2.5 billion is growing, and there's enough for everybody. And and you know, it helps us grow.

SPEAKER_03

You mentioned kind of the story of the of the mom with the kid finally drinking milk, and this is the the the side of it that's very satisfying. There must also be a very worrying side because of the responsibility, because you have all of these kids who are drinking this milk. If anything is to go wrong in the supply chain where the responsibility is immense. So, how do you take on such responsibilities?

SPEAKER_00

So, you know, we do about, you know, uh we do hundreds of thousands of pack consumptions per month in the UAE, for example. That's just one country. We've been doing it for 10 years. And our supply chain, you know, we're working with some of the best ISO-certified, you know, uh uh partners uh around the world to produce this milk. We've had very little issues. We we, you know, our milk gets quality checked like hundreds of times between when it comes from the cow all the way to when it hits the shelf and you open it up in the fridge. And so quality assurance is is everything, you know, and we've done a really good job. And I think that's why people know when they pick up a quarter product, you know, they can trust that it's gonna be fine. There won't be a problem with it.

SPEAKER_03

And you mentioned also that reflect on how you treat employees, et cetera. How do you make sure that that culture and ethics is through the entire supply chain, not only at the end of your company? How are you making sure that across the world your suppliers are abiding by these?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So look, our my my my theory uh or thesis with how I treat employees is I feel like I work for them. You know, and if you ask yourself, you know, I ask my employees on a regular basis, I meet them all for lunches, we do catch-ins, check-ins. They don't have a fear that they can disagree with the boss. It's actually frowned upon in the organization. If if a management, uh one of my management, if some person disagrees with them, it's good, you know, and and my managers disagree with me too a lot. You know, they're like, Mustafa, what are you thinking, man? Like, this doesn't make sense. So I encourage that from the top down. And so I'm always asking them, hey, what can I do to help you be more productive? Is anything getting in your way? And those are kind of like very common questions. And so we do the same with our partners. Usually the traditional partner relationship is you're trying, it's a win-lose situation. And so I've asked my like supply chain manager, my salespeople when they're dealing with the distributors, that you have to put yourself in the seat of the distributor. You have to put yourself in the seat of the farmer. You have to think about how they're thinking about it. Because if it's a win-win, then it's scalable. If it's a win-lose, your supplier is gonna feel like he's getting the short end of the stick and he's not gonna give you great service. And if your distributor is not making his margin, this is a tough, this is a tough time for all of our distributors. Like their freight rates went up. They also had supply chain issues. You have to put yourself in their shoes and you got to think win-win. Win-lose does not work. It's not a it's not a profitable or sustainable business if you're win-lose. And that short-sightedness, I think, is what happens with a lot of people when they're starting companies, and you can't do it that way. Everyone's got to win, including the retailer, the distributor, us, and the supplier. And you got to figure it out.

SPEAKER_03

And the farmers have been also under pressure with the latest events in terms of fertilizer prices increases, all of all of that. So uh so how and how how do you see farming in general and that kind of average person was pretty under a lot of pressure?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah. So look, they've prices have to go up, you know, if fertilizer is you know not as abundant right now. Because that's one of the issues, geopolitical um uh negatives that came out as fertilizer was was held up. So that does impact what we call cogs, cost of goods sold. And so, you know, it's just unfortunately it's it's it's it's a it's a truth of the current market. Everybody has to do it, not just me, my also my competition. So I think you'll start seeing some unf food inflation, hopefully temporary for a period of time, and hopefully it comes down as soon as possible.

SPEAKER_03

Where does the kind of responsibility of companies sit? You ultimately have your employees, your shareholders who still need to be compensated, uh, but you also have the consumer who's basically the kid has got used to a certain type of milk, the parents could afford it. Now all of a sudden the price may go up, the parent may or may not be able to afford it again, but they want to maintain a certain lifestyle for the kids. So, where does your responsibility sit in this equation?

SPEAKER_00

I mean, look, I think when you say responsibility, it's responsibility on the things you have control over, right? So if we have increases in cost, we have to be honest with the market, both sides. Like, hey, we had to increase our costs. Here's why the freight rates, by the way, freight in the recent times have gone up. Containers coming into the GCC, let's say we're around $4,500 a container. They've gone up to $17,000 or $18,000 a container. Like, no one can just absorb that cost, big company or small company for a sustained period of time. So I also have a responsibility to my employees. I don't have really shareholders right now because I still own 100% of the company, but you know, I have a responsibility to the organizational unit to at least break even or, you know, make a profit, right? Um responsibility uh is not uh is uh is also being honest with your consumer base. So uh, you know, prices have gone up. So if we when anytime we do relay a price increase, we're honest about why why it's there. And some of the reasons I just spoke about are some of the honest reasons that me and everyone else have had to are possibly gonna have to increase some prices.

SPEAKER_03

Do you feel you've been kind of tough on yourself throughout these 10 years to be able to get there? Has has this kind of helped? How healthy, unhealthy has it been?

SPEAKER_00

I've been unhealthy and how tough I have been on myself. And um, it's good and bad. Like as the founder of the company, the buck stops with me on anything, right? So even if I hire someone and they mess up, I'm the one who hired them, right? I'm the one who managed them. Um so I uh it's a double-edged sword again, but taking ownership of everything that happens with and without your control forces you to really do as much as you can. I think what I've learned over the years is you want to take ownership for everything, but you don't want to stress out to a certain amount where you're not as productive anymore. And there have been times in my earlier years and even in the last couple of years where something bad happens in the company, I take it very personally. And it's um it's almost destructive to your motivation, your clarity of thinking and stuff. So I've had to learn as a business leader to be like, listen, you got to go easy on yourself sometimes. And so I've started being like, and I also have to celebrate my wins. I gotta be like most of a, hey, you got through this situation, good job, you know. But I'm I'm probably a lot tougher on myself. Maybe I can blame my father for that because he's a big worrier, you know. Uh old Indian dad, you know, a Gujarati dad mentality. So it's a double edge sort of, but I think it has been unhealthy at times for me. And I've really stressed out, lost all my hair, you know. And um, I would say if I could speak to myself five years ago, I would say I would tell myself to go easy on myself sometimes because it it's not productive.

SPEAKER_03

On that, as an American Eastern heritage built out of the Middle East, what's your kind of reflection on the three cultures?

SPEAKER_00

Look, it's funny, I'm a real mix. I my I was, you know, my parents are Gujarati Indians from Bombay, and my dad migrated to the US in the 60s. So he he calls me a coconut. He says I'm brown on the outside and white on the inside. And so I'm, you know, I've got this Indian heritage. I was born in America, grew up in American business culture, American education, all that stuff. I'm Muslim, you know, so when I came to the region, I had a lot of kind of I could I could really relate to the region in many different ways. And hopefully my thesis is I've taken the best of the cultures and forgotten the worst of some of those cultures. And so I think my heritage has actually been a big advantage because I've been able to take some of the positives from American business culture. I understand the region culturally because I'm a Muslim. Uh, there's a lot of Indians here, so I understand the Indian, you know, sort of mentality. Um, and I've I think it's helped me in adapting to this region and kind of having the right sense of humor you need sometimes and dealing with funny things that happen. Um, but I really love where I live. Um, I really love the the the UAE a lot. I think it's been such a blessing. And I feel like my background has really lent itself well to the culture.

SPEAKER_03

What would you say is the absolute best thing about each of the three cultures?

SPEAKER_00

Okay. American business culture is kind of no BS, straight to the point, let's get the job done. It's very optimistic, right? I think the Indian culture is, you know, very like do less with more, you know. There's like two billion people in India. They all gotta like, they have like nothing and they gotta make something of it, you know, and really teach yourself. And like I like that hustle. Uh and I think I just love the communal family culture of the Middle East. You know, it's very family-oriented. Even the business partners, you know, whether I'm dealing with uh someone in Abu Dhabi or Riyadh or Doha, you know, you come in and you get to know them and you talk, you break bread with them, you get to know them as a person, and then business comes later. And I think the best business, and what I love about this region is that you build meaningful relationships first, and then the business will come next. And even when you're having problems. So I'll give you an example. There's a distributor where we've got some problems, you know. But I've been able to build a meaningful relationship with the owner, the CEO, and and the folks in that organization that through the problems, they we trust each other. They're my friends. I care about them. And so we get through. And I think that's something that's in the relationship business culture is is really beautiful here.

SPEAKER_03

So I guess the American culture gave you the risk taking to go and start your own business and believe in it. Yeah, yeah. The Middle East give you kind of the recipe of doing something communal, sitting with the all these morning coffees, and then the Indian heritage allowed you to keep going and have the resilience.

SPEAKER_00

That might be a good way of putting it. Yeah, I got a mix of everything.

SPEAKER_03

If someone is in your place today who listened to us, is 10 years ago in your place looking to start their business from scratch, yeah. What's the blueprint you would give them?

SPEAKER_00

I would say, I mean, I think because I had a tough childhood, the thing that I learned as I got through my personal childhood struggles was persistence. Like you gotta never give up. Like I never, ever, ever give up. If I really want something, if you say no to me a hundred times, I keep knocking on that door. So I think the the game of entrepreneurship is a really tough business. It is not for the faint-hearted. And so my persistence is is number one. Like never give up on yourself is the first thing, you know. Um, I think two, I would say just continue to be curious. You know, Sadhguru said something that I think always stuck with me. He said, never look up to anyone and never look down at anyone. Just look at someone, whether they're the CEO or multi-billionaire or the janitor, you're all you're learning from everyone, you know, and treat everyone the same. Don't be starry-eyed about this, you know, guy. And the guy who's you know, cleaning your dishes, you can you can learn from him too. Treat him also or her like an equal. So I think curiosity is kind of related to what Sadhguru said. And uh, I think just go easy on yourself. You know, don't don't put everyone puts so much pressure on themselves, and that kind of screws them up from the beginning. Like, it's okay to make mistakes, you know, you have to. Um, and you have to learn that failure is not failure, failure is learnings. And so those are kind of the couple things that I think I've I've learned that have helped me get through it all.

SPEAKER_03

Someone today who listened to us who wants to take a practical step in making their lifestyle more healthy in the way they go about their life, they consume, they provide for their family. What's one thing they can start with?

SPEAKER_00

They need to first start buying coit of milk. You know, uh no, I I think look, I I I've learned that there's kind of three big elements. You know, what you consume is is so important, the food. There's a lot of processed food out there. Even my kids, man, I'm trying to like get them off the unhealthy food. It's hard, man, especially with my kids, but um, you know, staying away from processed, you know, um, or staying away from unhealthy foods is is is is and staying clean is really important. Sleep is something that I've learned. I've got this aura ring, you know, to track my sleep, and I'm really big into my sleep. And then, and then exercise, you know, those are kind of things. I think those are physical things, but also your mind has to stay healthy too. And, you know, surrounding yourself with good people, you know, they say you're an average of your five friends. I'm so lucky. I have really my five closest friends are all kind of crazy entrepreneurs like me, but they're good people. And so I think the people you roll with, you know, if you want to aspire to be something, start befriending people like that and they will hold you to a certain level. And I think that's another element that's important to me. So that's so when I think of that question, that's how I that's how I'd answer it.

SPEAKER_03

Someone who's in a corporate who would love to do their own thing, but is currently kind of burdened by certain financial commitments they have to do, how can they navigate such a situation?

SPEAKER_00

So they can kind of do what I did. You know, I again I said things aren't black or white. You don't go from corporate to starting your own company. Uh, you know what I did is when I went from corporate, I joined startups. So I was employee number four at a startup, I was employee number eight at a startup, and I was with the founder who'd raised the money, and I kind of learned. So I was still getting a salary, but I was learning a little bit about what the startup environment is. So I would suggest to someone if you want to get a taste of it without risking your paycheck, join a startup, you know, that's been around for maybe six months or a year and has some stability. Um that's kind of a nice step into it to see is this for you or not. Uh, I wouldn't jump, or it's up to anyone. I'm not saying it hasn't worked for everyone, but jumping into it is it's a big jump. It's a big commitment.

SPEAKER_03

And someone who's a kind of a policymaker looking at some of the statistics you mentioned around obesity, around cardiovascular in our region or kind of or elsewhere, what are some of the practical things that can be done to kind of improve the health situation?

SPEAKER_00

Well, I think engaging with industry, uh engaging with consumer groups are important. I'm part of the UA Food and Beverages Association, uh, and they're a really amazing association that allows private and government to kind of interact. So, and they've taken a big interest in healthy living. And so we're kind of saying, hey, you know, um here, this healthy trend is really important. The the regulation, if you can make it easier, it would help promote, like, you know, the sugar tax is kind of a version of how the government started getting involved in uh lowering, you know, sugar, right, in certain beverages. So I think if I if the government was listening to this, I would say, you know, start engaging those companies that are trying to promote healthy living and listen to them. And and we need to listen to the government also to kind of understand what are their issues, what are they, how are they looking at and just cooperating and communicating.

SPEAKER_03

And finally, you mentioned uh you're starting to work more and more with local suppliers, also accelerating it because of the recent issues. If I'm today a local supplier, I have a business, I'm going to start a business. What type of things that would be interesting for me to kind of try to do to supply to you to other FMB companies in the UE, I mean which is looking to move local?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, just making sure that you're set up to supply healthier products. You know, there's a lot of certification standards. Uh, some of the ingredients that go into the the supply need to be at a certain quality. And a lot of that stuff is just going to industry events and learning and stuff like that. But I think that's the biggest thing.

SPEAKER_03

Thank you so much for being with us. It's been super exciting. It's a real pleasure. Thank you so much. Thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you.