Leadership from Amazon to Harvard Business School | Abhi Gunasekar

In Episode 8, we meet Abhi Gunasekar, an MS/MBA Candidate at Harvard Business School (HBS) and  School of Engineering and Applied Sciences (SEAS). Abhi shares his journey studying computer science at Purdue University, to working as a Software Engineer at Amazon, and now pursuing a dual degree graduate program at Harvard University. 

Transcript

SPEAKER_03 0:00

When I thought about my career, at least a starting point, there's only one thing that I thought about. One was impact. And so leadership, in my opinion, is fundamentally about stewarding trust. And trust is ultimately about understanding and empathy. I believe empathy is often an underrated skill and trait for successful leaders. If there was a biography about me, the title of it would be The Leader Who Cared.

SPEAKER_02 0:31

Welcome to the Beyond Harvard podcast. I'm your host, Roshana Wearsinka, a graduate student at Harvard University. And on this week's episode, we meet Abby Ginneshaker, a dual degree candidate studying at Harvard Business School and School of Engineering. Take a listen as we learn more about Avi's refreshing perspective on leadership and his journey to Harvard and beyond. Enjoy Avi Guneshaker. Welcome to Beyond Harvard.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

It's my pleasure. Thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:16

I'm pumped to have you, Abby. You and I, we see each other on campus at different conferences, and you always have incredibly thoughtful questions to ask. And this time I get to ask you some questions. And so I'm excited for us to switch it up a little bit today.

SPEAKER_03 1:32

The pleasure is totally mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

To set the stage for our audience, Evi, you're from India. You grew up there. You spent your early childhood years there. You moved over to the States in seventh grade, and you lived across Oregon, Pennsylvania, Illinois. You found your footing in Purdue, where you studied computer science, and then you went on to join Amazon as a software development engineer. Now you're here and you're a dual degree candidate studying at Harvard Business School and the School of Engineering. That's quite, quite, quite a resume, Abby. I'd love to maybe learn a little bit more about your your origin story, Abby, and maybe how your roots have informed your career pursuits. Of course.

SPEAKER_03 2:25

I mean, when I have to think about my roots, um I think culture is an important facet of leadership, in my opinion. Because every leader is defined by not what they do, but who they are, and who they are is determined heavily by their identity. To me, being from India, Indian culture is something that I hold very deeply at my heart, uh, not only because it's helped shape the person that I am, but also has defined how I view humanity as a whole. Um, and so leadership, in my opinion, is fundamentally about stewarding trust. And trust is ultimately about understanding and empathy, which doesn't come if you're isolated within one culture. So I've had the privilege and honor of being part of different cultures, uh having friends from different backgrounds, uh which has helped me shape myself uh so far, and I'm glad to be in this conversation.

SPEAKER_02 3:26

Yeah, that's great to hear. I'd love maybe to sort of zoom into to your time in India just for a little bit, and maybe you can sketch us throughout little Abhi Tuck in terms of growing up there and maybe how that shows up and culture and and embodying that shows up shows up today for you.

SPEAKER_03 3:44

Yeah. So uh just to set context for the audience and to yourself, I was born in Chennai, India, which is the southern part of India. And um I used to play cricket growing up.

unknown 3:56

Oh wow.

SPEAKER_03 3:57

And I've always wanted to play for the Indian cricket team. Oh, really? Yeah, that's a childhood passion of mine. And um ended up playing competitively um almost the state level in Tamil Nadu uh in India. Um before we decided to move to the States. Um so cricket has been a huge influence, uh, like other leaders uh in my life as well. And it's helped teach me the skill set of teamwork, of the importance of uh putting one's uh mission above oneself, and also understanding the intricacies of uh psychological safety when it comes about um delivering results and pushing one each other in a team sport to achieve your maximum potential. And so that's one facet that growing up in India has affected me. Another facet is um I grew up uh very deeply spiritual. And so I've had the privilege of visiting different temples uh in India, and how uh I haven't talked to several saints growing up. It's helped shape uh a different worldview and kind of viewing uh reality as I know it uh from almost like uh from a safe a spaceship, if you will. Like the feeling that astronauts typically feel when they're in space is something similar to what I feel when I meditate or when I deeply engage myself in spiritual pursuits.

SPEAKER_02 5:25

That's fascinating. Um it seems like it's something and it's a practice that you carry carried with you.

SPEAKER_04 5:32

Definitely.

SPEAKER_02 5:33

Um I want to get into a little bit, Abby, what the transition was like for you moving from India and this um in this world where you're you're playing cricket and you're visiting temples and now you're moving over to the states and not only coming over and crossing the pond, but you're also shuffling across different states here. Uh curious to know a little bit more about that transition for you.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Great question. I would say ideologically, even though spiritually I was deeply Indian, ideologically I've always been an American, uh, even though when I was What do you mean by that? What I mean by that, to me, it's a great question you ask. To me, who is an American? An American is somebody who values individualism, uh values uh pioneering spirit and is undaunting the face of obstacles. That is America to me.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:22

And I grew up reading Emerson Thoreau and um loved reading about you know the Wild West and how great entrepreneurs forged America. And you know, growing up reading these ideals, I've always been fascinated uh about America and wanting to live in America and got the privilege. And so, you know, culturally it was a little bit difficult, but ideologically, I felt right at home when I visited the States and uh got a chance to live in the US.

SPEAKER_02 6:53

Wow, that's powerful. Um you spent most of you know your childhood there, but then most of sort of your pursuit in a higher education has has been has been here. Um you study computer science uh at Purdue. And Abby, I've heard of folks who graduate from a four-year institution in three and a half years. I've heard of from folks who've graduated from a four-year institution in three years. You graduated from Purdue in two and a half years. I one want to learn a little bit more about your journey there. Um that is so, so impressive. So maybe you can speak to us a little bit about what that was like.

SPEAKER_03 7:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Um I don't know if it's impressive, but two and a half years is impressive to me, especially if it's a four-year institution.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Yeah. Um, I would say I just loved my time at Purdue.

SPEAKER_00 7:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 7:47

Um Purdue's a great institution like Harvard. And um, you know, John Wooden, whom I very much admire, attended Purdue, Neil Armstrong attended Purdue, and it's got a very strong engineering curriculum. And so that was a muscle that I wanted to build uh as the first stage in building my career and having an engineering mindset is something that I think is very valuable for a leader. And so I just threw myself um in projects in labs that I found interesting. And back then, cloud computing, like how AI is today, was all their age. And I was kind of dabbling myself in cloud computing, understanding how different cloud providers like AWS, JCP, and Azure were really creating value for organizations. And so having deep interest in cloud computing made me take more classes. And then I realized that uh I could graduate early, and so I said, why not?

SPEAKER_01 8:44

So it was almost on accident? Almost an accident.

SPEAKER_03 8:47

Great things in life happen due to accidents.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Serendipitously, right?

SPEAKER_03 8:50

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 8:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:51

So you got to increase your surface area of serendipity.

SPEAKER_02 8:54

Yeah. And can you just define for us what you mean when you say engineering mindset? Um, and and what exactly you're talking about.

SPEAKER_03 9:01

Yeah, great question. So when we think about leadership, uh, what exactly is leadership? And a leadership where at Harvard Business School, which I think is the altar of leadership. Um I've thought a little bit about what exactly is the role of a leader, regardless of the institution that they lead. A leader is fundamentally about solving problems that are of scale and of meaning. And so when it comes to solving problems, I think there's no better way to frame a problem than an engineer would. To give you a concrete example, I think the idea of a backup system is a very fundamental concept in engineering that a lot of leaders, especially leaders in financial services, have to think about. Is there a margin of safety? Like, for example, when you design a bridge, let's say that you want to hold um 100 people, you're probably not going to design the bridge just to hold 100 people. Yeah. You're probably going to design the bridge to hold 200 people. And the reasoning being, if something happens, you at least have some kind of margin of safety. And when it comes to engineering, reliability is an important characteristic when you design any feature. And scalability is important. Modularity is important. And so these are all principles that you learn at a theoretical level at an engineering school like Purdue, and then which I've been fortunate uh to apply at a great company like Amazon. Yeah. Um, so I think that's my main takeaway from my time at Purdue and uh learning engineering.

SPEAKER_02 10:26

Yeah, that's awesome. And you mentioned Amazon, Abby. So I want to segue into that section um as a former Amazonian myself, and between you, myself, and and Yao Ming, who's behind the camera. We have we have three Amazonians. Um and I want to get into, you know, one, learning a little bit more about your time there and also what the decision or what the impetus was to work in technology, what what drew you to the field?

SPEAKER_03 10:57

Honestly, when I thought about my career, at least at a starting point, there's only one thing that I thought about. One was impact. Impact, okay. And what I mean by impact is skill. I wanted to know that I was serving a greater purpose than myself. There's a story of uh the three uh Masons. I don't know if you're familiar with that.

SPEAKER_02 11:19

Uh tell me more.

SPEAKER_03 11:20

Yeah. So there's like basically, let's say there was a person walking down the street.

SPEAKER_02 11:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 11:25

There were basically three Masons that he met on the street. The first Mason, he asked him what he was doing. The first Mason said, Hey, I'm just, you know, chopping up some rocks. The second Mason uh asked, was like uh the person asked the second Mason, what are you doing? The second Mason said, Oh, I'm building a wall. And the third Mason was, I'm building a cathedral, right? Yeah, they're all essentially doing the same thing. But when you think about it from a big picture angle and the scale and the impact, your work becomes more meaningful.

SPEAKER_01 11:53

Yeah. I feel like I heard this at Amazon, actually. I don't know if that's where you first found out about it. I think one of my team, that's funny. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:00

So yeah, so precisely, right? So being part of an organization, I've always admired the leaders who lead Amazon, Jeff Wilkie, Andy Jassy, yeah, uh, Jeff Bezos. They're people I look up to. And so being surrounded um by wonderful leaders whom I can learn was a deep privilege uh to be able to join Amazon and deeply fortunate. I learned not only how to be a great engineer, but also how to be a great leader at Amazon.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

So that's awesome. I you were a software development engineer there, Abby. Yes on the Amazon ads team working out of Austin. Um, could you bring us a little bit, zoom us a little bit into what it was like working on the ads team and speak a little bit more to the role, if you will, of being a software engineer.

SPEAKER_03 12:45

Yeah. Um, the role in the age of AI has shifted quite a bit. Um, as folks watching it might be uh thinking about their career as well. Uh, but fundamentally, what a software engineer at Amazon would do is build products uh that actually enable a business to grow. And so what that meant uh concretely in the advertising team, for instance, was Amazon was launching Live Sports on Prime Video. And uh, you know, anytime you watch Thursday Night Football on Prime Video, we wanted to find a way to monetize uh the payment paying system for the content and things like that. And so what my team and I did was we basically built an ad solution for Thursday Night Football, which basically streamed ads close to, if I'm not wrong, 52 million users uh in under a second. And so uh, you know, scaling 51 brands internationally.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Incredible.

SPEAKER_03 13:43

So that's the kind of scale. It was very day one uh to use an Amazon terminology, uh, if you will. And so uh I really enjoyed the scrappy nature team, scrappy nature of the mission, and so really loved my time and ads.

SPEAKER_02 13:57

Yeah, that's awesome. And to maybe bring us back to Amazon terminology for for the listeners, Amazon has a set of leadership principles. We we call them LPs. And you and I, Abby, share a level of enthusiasm about LPs and uh their sort of etched in their DNA. And um, since we're talking about leadership and and we're here at the business school, and um you've touched on what leadership means to you. I'm curious to know um a little bit more about which leadership principles are do you excite you the most and maybe if you have a favorite, which one, which one it is?

SPEAKER_03 14:35

I don't have a favorite. You don't? Okay. I think I think all leadership principles are quite important.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 14:40

They're trade-offs to be made, but I would say that out of all of that, all the leadership principles that I've implemented so far, um, I would say customer obsession is probably my favorite leadership principle. Um and the reason I say that is a lot of businesses focus on competitors, focus on external dynamics like regulators and things like that, but they forget the key stakeholder in all of the uh reason, the reasons behind why a business exists in the first place, which is a customer. Yeah. So if you constantly listen to your customer, give them the first voice, always innovate and invent on behalf of your customers, and then continuously improve your products to serve the customer, your business will succeed. And what's in the interest of the customer is ultimately in the interest of the investor. And so that's how you create value, uh the capitalist system that we have.

SPEAKER_02 15:36

Absolutely. Working backwards from our customers, right?

SPEAKER_03 15:39

That's the way to do it.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

Um wonderful. I'd uh I'd I'd love to maybe now transition, Ebbie, into your time here at Harvard Business School and the School of Engineering. Um you're pursuing an MBA, which is a two-year program. Um, and in the fall of 2025, do you you started here, which means you swapped out of the the the comfy tech job at Amazon, as you say, to come be a student again. What what was that like for you? And and tell us a little bit about where you are today.

SPEAKER_03 16:10

Great question. Um, I've always been driven by curiosity. Okay. And that's what led me to pursue higher education further. And having joined Harvard um fall of 2025, I found the experience to be incredibly rewarding, not just in terms of the pedagogy and the content we learn in class and the vibrant discussions we have in class, but ultimately meeting uh wonderful people like yourself and uh Yao Ming and a few others in my section. And so ultimately I've learned that perspectives is all that matters. So being uh open-minded and seeking disconfirming evidence are two skill sets that HBS has taught me about leadership, and which is something that I intend to continue long after HBS.

SPEAKER_02 17:00

That's awesome. I'd love to maybe backtrack a little bit, Abby, into if there was a specific moment or what the thought process was like for you as you were thinking about I want to apply to business school and actually take this, take this jump and and sort of step out of working for a little bit.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Yeah. Um, it again goes back to my um initial question of impact. Okay. When I thought about how am I going to create impact and derive meaningful value for not just myself, my family, or even my close uh friends, but society at large and civilization as we know it. And I thought the best way to do so is leading great businesses that produce wonderful products uh at scale. And there are different skill sets required to lead, and there are different skill sets required to build. So I'd acquired a builder mindset at Amazon. But what I lacked was the leadership mindset and being able to articulate my vision, being able to rally my troops around a common mission, and being ultimately able to deliver value for investors and customers. And so those were the specific skill sets that I intended to build uh during my time here at HBS. And so that was what motivated me to pursue an MBA.

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Got it. So you had the engineering mindset, as you said, but you wanted more of the leadership. Yep. That's that's great to hear. Um, I'd love to maybe also learn a little bit more about how you approach the application process. Yeah. A lot of our or a good portion of our audience is interested in thinking and learning more about pathways to higher education. So maybe if you can speak to what the application process was like for you and anything you want to share with us in terms of how you you navigated it.

SPEAKER_03 18:45

I would say first and foremost, purpose has to be core part of your strategy. What is it, what is it that you want to do? Why is it that you want to do that? And where is it that you want to pursue that? So those three questions are, I think, frameworks that I would think about when you think about higher education as a whole. And when it comes to the application process itself, I always believed that being authentic is a key skill set. And so when I was writing my application essays, interviewing, I was very clear about not trying to tell the story of what, let's say, the other party, in this case admissions officers, want to hear, but rather portray um a landscape of who I am as a person, uh and you know, being vulnerable. I believe being vulnerable is the greatest asset that one can do to build trust and ultimately uh gain the acceptance of anybody. Yeah. And so how did she do that?

unknown 19:43

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:44

Or tactically. Great question. Um I'm deeply spiritual, like I said uh previously, and you know, meditating is a great way for me to uh connect with my deeper inner self. And also uh I love going on long hikes, and so and I'm also a tea connoisseur, I'd like to believe. And so uh, you know, anything, uh any any tea, I have a specific uh mock tail, I'd say, of a of a tea combination. Just you know, brew hot tea, meditate for 30 minutes, and you can start writing. That's that's pretty much it.

SPEAKER_02 20:22

That's how we enter Abby level Zen.

SPEAKER_03 20:24

One could say that.

SPEAKER_02 20:26

Yeah. That's that's that's great to hear. Okay, so you sort of apply these different techniques, be it drinking tea or meditating or or going on a walk that help maybe you sort of reach reach the place that helps maybe best show your most authentic self on an application and help that shine through.

SPEAKER_03 20:47

Yeah, I think it's ultimately unlocking your higher form of consciousness.

SPEAKER_00 20:52

Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 20:53

And so um, yeah, and being able to connect with your inner self and articulating it uh either through a voice or through letters uh is the best way.

SPEAKER_02 21:03

Yeah. So you've unlocked your higher self-consciousness, Abby, and now you're here, right?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

I wouldn't say I wouldn't say you've unlocked it quite yet. It's a lifelong journey, but I'm getting there.

SPEAKER_02 21:12

You're getting there. Um But you're you're here now. We talked a little bit about application and and your journey here, but you're here. I'm curious to know how you're you're in your first year out of out of two.

SPEAKER_04 21:25

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 21:26

How how how is it going so far? And what were your expectations coming into the program and how is that mapped to to reality thus far?

SPEAKER_03 21:34

Yeah, great question. Um it's been a great experience. I feel towards if I have to use to classify my HBS experience so far, one would be blessed, and second would be grateful. I'm deeply grateful to have this privilege to be able to attend this wonderful institution and meet wonderful people. And in terms of my experience so far, one of the key aspects or expectations I had was coming in and felt that you know. I would have to, you know, drill down pedagogy down my head, not really think about issues, but the case method changes everything, in my opinion. And the case method really unlocks what it is, uh, the problem that the protagonist is trying to solve. And you're almost taught uh to think like a protagonist in the case. And being able to articulate a tough and a complex situation with 90 other brilliant minds uh on earth is one of the best ways to exercise your managerial judgment and grow as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

Totally. And the case method and for our audience is a is a key component of the HTTP experience. And as you touched on, Evi, it's it's a situation where there's a protagonist, there's a challenge, and then the team or you all as students think thoroughly through through different frameworks and and and models that can be applied. Um, could you just explain the case method a little bit more? And then what is your reaction to it, given that you've been able to experience it firsthand now in the classroom? Do you find it effective in in learning different concepts? And and what's been your take on the case method so far?

SPEAKER_03 23:14

Yeah. Um, as somebody who's aspiring to lead an organization in the future, I think one of the things that the case method teaches you how to do is how to change your mind. A lot of people think about leaders as people who always know the right answer, but the case method kind of disillusioned me from that belief.

SPEAKER_02 23:34

Really?

SPEAKER_03 23:35

It teaches me how fallible uh often great leaders are. And it's okay not to know all the answers. All that matters is you're willing to change your mind and be willing to be fungible enough to be able to let others whom I know a deeper um content knowledge than you knew to take over, but ultimately owning the end-to-end execution of the outcome as a leader. And so, to give you a concrete example, we had a case on how Microsoft is trying to drive AI adoption uh through Copilot. And so in the age of AI, seeing how a large organization grapples with its transformation efforts is something that I think deeply about. And so what that really means when it comes to driving organizations and building organizations at last in the age of AI.

unknown 24:25

Wow.

SPEAKER_02 24:25

Um I want to get into a little bit more, just in terms of how you think more broadly about the MBA experience. Um I think we're in an interesting inflection point where because of AI, the landscape, especially in higher education, is changing a lot. Last year, Forbes released a report on um how perhaps the value of an MBA is just looked at differently in today's world. So I'm curious to know what are your thoughts there and how do you think about the value of an MBA as someone who's sort of in it and carrying through it?

SPEAKER_03 25:01

Great question. I think when you think about an MBA, you don't do an MBA to build technical knowledge, in my opinion. That's what technical degrees are for. An MBA, it's almost as if you do an MBA to groom yourself to become a leader. And so to groom yourself. Yeah, uh it's almost as if you know uh the castle is already built. You're just trying to figure out how to build a moat around the castle. Uh how do you uh, you know, unlock um new value. And so depending on the industry that you want to go in, it's almost as if how do you learn to think differently? How do you learn from others? It's all these soft skills that is going to be really valuable in the age of AI that the NBA teaches you. It's not the hard skills, which most likely are gonna get replaced. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:55

Totally. It's almost like a self-discovery in a sense, too, right? In many ways.

SPEAKER_03 26:00

So the admissions process does not end when you submit the application. It continues for the next two years while you're here in the Broadgo program.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Um, we touched on hard skills a bit, and I want to get into the MS part of your MS MBA experience. I mean, so you're pursuing both a Master of Science and uh a Masters of Business Administration, um, which means that you sort of get to sip between the worlds that we're speaking to, right? Of the technical and the business and strategy. Um how do you one, I'm curious to know what means you choose to pursue a dual degree program? Um, and then two, how do you see those experiences either complementing each other? Um, what are the differences of of a dual degree program versus just just the MBA? Speak if you could speak to that.

SPEAKER_03 26:51

Yeah, of course. Um I was thinking about my higher education goals, I was very clear that while I did not want to be technical uh right after graduating from HBS, yeah, I still wanted to have a technical foothold. Um, you know. So I believe that great leaders are often of substance. And the best way to build substance is to do the hard uh things, right? And I think having an engineering mindset is very important, like I mentioned a couple of minutes ago. And so I decided that I wanted to do an MSNBA because I stayed grounded the details of, especially in the age of AI, understand what the technology behind AI is.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 27:33

And then uh also understand how an organization creates value on the business side of things. Uh, how do you create shareholder value, enterprise value, and then kind of merge both uh to lead effectively in the age of AI.

SPEAKER_02 27:47

Right. So you want to gain the business acumen, but you want to maintain the technical aptitude that you have. Um and it's interesting to note, right? Especially as we're talking about the the age of AI, but you and how things are the commoditization of things is changing, but it seems like you still want to maintain, maintain that. And then that's really interesting to hear. Um I'd be curious to know a little bit more on that piece, Abby, in terms of how do you think about when I think about, like you mentioned, you know, good leaders do the hard, hard things. And when you think about technical challenges, right? It's getting very much into the nitty-gritty. And then with business and strategy, sometimes it's approaching things from a very high-level sort of um, or you're thinking about problems on a much larger scale. So I'm curious to know how do you straddle both of those worlds and what are maybe some of the frameworks and techniques you use?

SPEAKER_03 28:40

I'd say I think starting with curiosity.

unknown 28:43

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 28:44

Understanding, I always say, you know, uh, as Simon Sinek says, you know, leaders always start with why. And so understanding why you're doing what you're doing is a very important question to answer. And that's where a business uh person comes in and answer this, answer that question. Why are we pursuing a certain strategy? Why is it that an organization is making this giant leap? Once you answer that question, the next question becomes, how are we gonna do it? And how are we gonna do it not just get the job done, but how are we gonna build a system, an architect system that is gonna do it in a much more effective manner, a much more scalable fashion, a much more modular fashion. That's where the engineering uh mindset or persona kicks in.

SPEAKER_02 29:29

Yeah. And so you really do need both, right? I think so. Yeah. Yeah. Um I'd love maybe, Abby, to transition into sort of our last segment here, which is the rapid fire with Rashada. Of course. Um so a little fun, light-hearted, lighthearted section. Um Abby, we both love to go to our fair share of conferences. Yes. An ideal Saturday for you. Is it at a conference or on the couch?

SPEAKER_03 29:58

At a conference.

SPEAKER_02 29:59

At a conference. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:00

What any highlights from from the conferences that you've been so far that you would want to share?

SPEAKER_03 30:05

Yeah. Um I recently met Damola Adamolkin, who's the CEO of Red Lobster.

SPEAKER_04 30:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:13

And we actually had a case about him uh at HBS, and he's a leader who's tremendously uh not only successful, but also inspiring.

SPEAKER_04 30:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:22

And seeing how he thinks about excellence and thinks about building a team oriented around excellence is something that I, you know, I've taken away from meeting him and having gotten a chance to speak with him directly as well. So that was my highlight, I'd say, of all the conferences that we've attended.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

I was at, I was at that, that one as well. And he Damola kept emphasizing excellence. That was like the one that he kept coming back to. But I think it speaks so much about great leaders, right? And and what what they pride themselves on and what they focus on. Um so I love that. Uh Abby, I'm curious to know what's scarier for you. Amazon code freeze or Harvard cold cult?

SPEAKER_03 31:04

I would definitely say Amazon code freeze.

SPEAKER_01 31:07

Code freeze. Okay.

SPEAKER_03 31:09

I mean, I think cold cults can be handled. Uh yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Right. If you do the preparation, it's not too, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

Right. Okay. Um we talked about leadership principles, Abby. And um we talked about Amazon LPs. I'm curious to know if we if you had to create an L leadership principle, Abby, if you had an Abby LP, what what would you want it to be on? What what what would you want it to be?

SPEAKER_03 31:35

It's a great question.

SPEAKER_02 31:36

I would say it's a tough one, I know, because there's so many.

SPEAKER_03 31:43

I would say optimism.

SPEAKER_02 31:45

Optimism. Oh, I like that.

SPEAKER_03 31:46

So people always say there's one trait that differentiates me from everybody else.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 31:50

It's that I'm always smiling, always optimistic. I think optimism is going to be the key differentiator between leaders who thrive in the age of AI and people who don't thrive. Um, no matter the situation, the entire, if you're the captain of the ship, if the entire crew is bummed out, you have to step up the pedal and say, We've got this. No storm is great enough that you cannot weather. So always showing up with optimism, with a smiling face, with a cheery attitude is the best way you can show yourself up as a leader.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

I love it, Evi. So maybe it'd be smile more, right? Or something. Yeah. Okay. I'm going to add that. I'm going to add that to my LV. Definitely. Um, so you you've shared with me, Evie, that you've garnered a couple of titles um on campus and we sort of jokingly talk about it. Um, LinkedIn leader and and archduke of of Amazon. Do you have a preference for one?

SPEAKER_03 32:42

I'd say that uh I recently got another title.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Oh, okay. I want to hear it.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

The conquistador.

SPEAKER_00 32:48

Oh.

SPEAKER_03 32:50

I'd say that's my favorite one.

SPEAKER_00 32:52

Yeah, that trumps both of them, right?

SPEAKER_02 32:53

I feel like that's a really good one. Okay. Um question about MBAs. Uh true or false, Abby. MBA two-year vacation.

SPEAKER_03 33:06

False. Definitely two years vacation.

SPEAKER_01 33:09

Definitely false. I've seen how hard you work, and I feel like so you find it to be it's not a two-year.

SPEAKER_03 33:17

It's a two-year meditation, let me put it that way.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Oh, wow. Two-year med wait, what break that down for us?

SPEAKER_03 33:24

Yeah. Um I think two years at HBS is a two-year period of introspection. And I think going back to the Hindu philosophy of Tapas, where basically saints would often, you know, go to the Himalayan ranges and meditate for long periods of hours, where you know, it's not just Hindu. Hinduism, Jainism, Sikhism, and a lot of Eastern traditions have this philosophy where in order for you to be enlightened, you have to go spend uh time in isolation and often thinking about the bigger questions of life. And so I think that's what an NBA experience, an ideal MBA experience would be is kind of taking, because you're taking pedal off the gas from your professional career.

SPEAKER_04 34:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:06

Going to a new place, new location, meeting new people. And so, and when you talk to new people, engage with new ideas, it's about discovering yourself. And so it's not a vacation, uh, it's a meditation.

SPEAKER_02 34:19

Wow, I like that reframe. Um you mentioned taking your foot off the gas when it comes to, you know, coming back to to grad school. I'm curious to know if there's anything you missed from from pre-grad school.

SPEAKER_04 34:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:35

I'd say I definitely miss debates around Amazon leadership principles. Oh, really? Which means to have on a day-to-day basis.

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:46

And on a funnier note, I think I definitely miss family. Um I'm deeply oriented around my family.

SPEAKER_00 34:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

And so I have a wonderful sister who's in high school. Um, so they live in Austin as well. And so having the chance to um get to spend time with her, get to know her a little bit more, and see how she's blossoming um in her coming of the age and being there as a brother for her is something that I miss.

SPEAKER_02 35:14

Yeah. Oh, um I've I've got one more question for you, Abby. Um, HBS is all about the case methods we talked about, and we hear cases about different leaders. See yourself as one, Abby. I'm curious to know if you had to write a case about your own life, or if there was a case about you, Abby, what what would you want it to be on, or what would you want it to highlight?

SPEAKER_03 35:37

It's a great question. As as you're as I'm thinking about it, all the leaders have admired are coming through my head, and I'm like thinking about what it is that's Yeah, it's tough too, right? Because it's sort of like you get one case and I would say if there was a biography about me, the title of it would be The Leader Who Cared. Wow. I believe empathy is often an underrated skill and trait for successful leaders. And it's not just about excellence, but harmonizing excellence with empathy. And so, whether it's about caring about your mission, but also all the people that you interact with in that mission. I'm a big believer in lifting others as you climb. And so, how do you lift other people around you, especially people from uh marginalized backgrounds as you climb is an important um mission of mine that I hope to keep near and dear as I make the summit.

SPEAKER_02 36:39

Yeah, I I love that, Abby. And I think so much of it is you know, getting getting a seat at the table, but then how do you hold the door open for others, right? Um if there's one takeaway that you would want the audience to leave with from our conversation or one piece of advice you would want to give them, what would it be?

SPEAKER_03 36:57

I'd say be bold. Uh don't let anyone or your past circumstances define who you are and who you ought to be. Dream big. Everybody has something to offer. And I'm I'm deeply optimistic about humanity as a whole. Even when robots come over, I think humans cannot be replaced. There's a place for humanity, and we will still be one of the most thriving species um in the entire history of mankind.

SPEAKER_02 37:24

Abby, you have such a refreshing perspective on on leadership. Thank you so much for for your time today. It's a pleasure having you. Of course of course thank you, Abby.

SPEAKER_03 37:38

Pleasure.