From Yale to Harvard Medical School as an International Student | Alex Dong

In Episode 10, we meet Alex Dong, an MD/MBA Candidate at Harvard Medical School (HMS) and Harvard Business School (HBS). Originally from Canada, Alex attended a high school with few resources to support students applying to universities in the United States. Alex shares his journey from his hometown to Yale College and now Harvard University. He discusses his upbringing, liberal arts education, work in science journalism, and vision for a career that combines healthcare and business. From charting his own course to making the most of opportunities along the way, Alex reflects on the lessons that shaped his path.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

I met with my admissions officer, the person who believed in me enough to change my life. If these people can dare to aspire, why can't I? The only failures that I would see in my life are regrets. Cure sometimes, treat often, but comfort always.

SPEAKER_01 0:25

Welcome to the Beyond Harvard Podcast. I'm your host, Rashana Wearsinger, a graduate student at Harvard University. On this week's episode, we meet Alex Stong, a student at Harvard Medical School and Harvard Business School. Alex shares with us his journey navigating the worlds of medicine, business, and everything he's learned in between. Take a listen as we learn more about who Alex is here at Harvard and beyond. Enjoy. Alex Dong, welcome to Beyond Harvard.

SPEAKER_00 1:12

Thank you so much for having me.

SPEAKER_01 1:14

Alex, I'm so excited to have you. And this feels like a full circle moment because when we first met, you and I talked about the podcast, and now you're here.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

Exactly. Yeah. That was like a month ago.

SPEAKER_01 1:23

I know, I know. Um, Alex, I want to give our audience a bit of a vignette into who you are and to set the stage for a conversation a little bit.

SPEAKER_02 1:32

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 1:33

You're from Canada. You grew up in Calgary.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 1:36

And then you came to the States. You pursued a liberal arts education at Yale University, where you graduated Magna Cum Laud in Biomedical Engineering and the Humanities. And you continued your education, and now you're here at Harvard Medical School and Harvard Business School. There's so much for us to get into, Alex, and I'm really excited for a conversation. But to start, maybe let's go, let's go back up north a little bit, and maybe you can take us to your time in Canada. What was it like growing up there and what parts of your childhood inform who you are today?

SPEAKER_00 2:09

Absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. Um I met you kind of randomly at HPS and playing the piano, and I think those sorts of spontaneous connections are just wonderful. So thank you. Um I think going back to Calgary, Alberta, um, it feels very, it feels like home to me because that's where I grew up. My parents were very supportive, and they wanted my brother and I to participate in all these outdoor activities and take advantage of Banff National Park in the Rocky Mountains that was right beside.

SPEAKER_02 2:38

Oh.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

So every winter we would go, every weekend during the winter, my parents would drive me to the Rockies where we would ski race every weekend. And that's why I didn't do um the classic like Chinese school, because that typically happens on Sundays. I was out there skiing.

SPEAKER_02 2:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Um, and then in the in the summers, I would be in like swim club and climbing and volleyball and all these sorts of activities and gymnastics at one point. I am very unflexible, let me be clear. But I think that that sort of kind of upbringing um really has also informed like the type of adventurousness and that like desire for balance that I've really held ever since then.

SPEAKER_01 3:22

So it was growing up, sort of playing all these different sports, or doing, as you mentioned, sort of very adventurous activities on the weekends and that that has informed kind of your perspective and wanting to have both an adventure and kind of balance at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I mean, my parents also, like big credits to them.

SPEAKER_01 3:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 3:41

They they immigrated from China um in 1999, and they had never really, I mean, they learned English, they they did all these things, but they had also never, you know, skied before or been a part of these activities. So just from driving my brother and I there and being our biggest supporters, our biggest cheerleaders, they learned to ski, they learned to do all these things at the age of like 40 years old. So it was incredible. And my dad can ski double blacks, my mom can ski black diamonds. Like it's it's um, I'm very proud of them as well.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

Wow, that's amazing. That's flex, Alex. That's huge, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:22

Yeah. So it's interesting. So I'm curious to know then. So it seems like you had a very, I mean, a very positive upbringing in in in Calgary. Talk us a little bit to what made you come to the States here to pursue.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

I think that that was also something that my parents didn't push me towards, but took they they took us, my brother and I, to the US on some like college trips um early on, just to kind of give us a taste of what was life outside of Calgary, Alberta. I mean, a lot of people in in Calgary stay there or stay in Canada, really, um, for most of their lives. And um I think that the infrastructure at my high school, at my middle school, that's that's what was set up. Nobody so even the admit like the uh high school admissions counselors or post-secondary education counselors, we called them, they didn't really have these resources or this knowledge available. So my parents took us to some of these trips so that we could see what was outside of what we had seen our whole lives. And I think that really opened my eyes to what was possible. And that these college tours inspired me, and I started applying to these summer programs in high school in the US. Um, some of them were one was at Purdue University where I did some like high school biochemistry research. Oh, wow, okay. Um, called the Summer Science Program. It was a fantastic experience because I was surrounded by 35 other really talented students from around the US and a couple abroad. And I think that that experience opened my eyes to if these people can dare to aspire, why can't I?

SPEAKER_01 6:06

Dare to aspire, why can't I? That's I love that Alex. I I want to get into then, you know, kind of your your time. I mean, here at the States, you you went to Yale and talk us a little bit. I know when you know you and I were were chatting, Alex, you mentioned that you at first you were anti-pre-med and anti-pre-law. And so talk me through a little bit of like why why a liberal arts education and and what were you looking to gain out of your experience?

SPEAKER_00 6:35

Yeah. I think the liberal arts education is why I came to the US in the first place. I mean, coming from Canada, most of the universities there, if you choose a program or a major, that is going to be like 95% of the classes that you'll take. Because the programs are very specific. And at least me, when I was 16 years old applying to college, I had no idea what I wanted to do. Exactly. But I found that the liberal arts model, where you could delve into the humanities while also going deep into the science or the engineering side of things, really intrigued me. And there was no better place for that than at Yale, where my college tour, my college tour guide in particular, was excellent. And really just drove sense this feeling of a second home in these residential colleges, in addition to that liberal arts pursuit that is possible at Yale. So I think that to sum it up, it really allowed me to grow as a person in addition to just as a student.

unknown 7:47

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 7:48

And I I mean you did a really great job during your time there, Alex, leaning into both the sciences and the humanities. I'm curious to know, and uh, if you can maybe speak a little bit to, you know, the humanities aspect. Um you were the editor-in-chief of the Yale Scientific Magazine, spent a summer interning in journalism. Talk as to how you even, you know, sort of stumbled upon the realm of science journalism.

SPEAKER_02 8:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

And also what did you learn? What did science teach you about journalism? And then what did journalism teach you about science?

SPEAKER_00 8:18

Wow, it's a lot to unpack here. Yeah. I'll start with my first year actually at Yale.

SPEAKER_02 8:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:23

There was a program called Directed Studies.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:26

Um, very humanities-oriented. We took six classes total, two in literature, two in philosophy, and two in historical and political thought. And it spanned, quote, the entirety of the Western canon from um the early uh like in in history, like Herodotus, Thucydides, and philosophy. Um, you'd have, you know, Plato and Socrates and Aristotle, and in literature around that same period with Homer, all the way up to the early 20th century. And I've never read more books in my entire life throughout that year. I stacked the books after that year um altogether and it was it got up to my shoulder.

SPEAKER_01 9:06

What?

SPEAKER_00 9:07

Yeah. And I didn't read every page, I have to say, those were so trying times.

SPEAKER_01 9:13

Yeah, that's tough.

SPEAKER_00 9:14

That was the deep immersion, I think, in the humanities that broadened my worldview so much. I mean, going to a place like Yale and being able to not just read these texts and have this set of curated um, you know, works that speak not just between each other, but through the different strands of history and literature and philosophy as well. But being able to talk with 12 equally as interested people from different backgrounds, different geographies about some of these works. I mean, that was that seminar model of the direct studies program was exactly what I came to you looking for. So that was that consumed about three quarters of my first year kind of academic curricula. Um, and it was really worth it. But that was kind of the start of my deep interest in the humanities into philosophy, which I took further classes later on, but on the academic side of things, kind of that that spark, that beginning. Kind of moving from there, um, or simultaneously, I guess. I started college during COVID in 2020. Yeah, that makes it and I think that you know, starting during a time like that means that there's not that many social or extracurricular opportunities like usual. But one type of club that can run virtually is a publication. And the I I guess you know, you can you can you can do interviews over Zoom, you can write on your Word document anyways, you can meet with your editors, everything can happen um online. And so these were the clubs that were most prominent, I would say, during that COVID time. And I kind of fell into it by accident because I was looking into all these clubs and I was like, you know, the Yale Scientific Magazine, that sounds like something I'd be interested in. Like that's super liberal artsy, right?

SPEAKER_02 11:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Um and it was probably the single most formative um extracurricular that I had at Yale. Oh I I mean, it overall, that organization, it's a storied organization. It's the most it's the nation's oldest college science publication since 1894. And there is a about a 200-person staff team that includes writers, photographers, editors, um, layout designers, business people, outreach managers. And these are all students. And these are all students. It's entirely student run. And I learned so much across these different branches about what it means to be a journalist, what it means to interview people, to gather stories, to make science and these really complex topics, especially in the age of misinformation and mistrust, accessible to the broader public and being able to reach out to communities in New Haven and across the country. I mean, we had readers and subscribers in the US and beyond internationally as well. But I think the biggest thing I took from that was just how much I enjoyed telling stories. So I continued, I was a writer initially, and then I eventually became one of the features editors, and then finally, as editor-in-chief, I led the whole organization. But seeing all of the different ways that came together from that initial interview or that initial pitch to putting together a story on a page that's visually appealing, that has incredible art, that you pick up like a like the magazine and the cover just looks like stunning. That's the type of excitement that we wanted to engage people in. It doesn't matter if they were a high school student or you know somebody who was in a completely different field their whole career. That was the type of excitement we wanted to bring about science. Because too often is incredible scientific innovation buried in these journals that have paywalls that you can't get through unless you have an.edu email address, yeah, or just inaccessible in terms of the language they use.

SPEAKER_01 13:14

So making storytelling and you know, science journalism in particular more accessible and sensorial.

SPEAKER_00 13:20

Exactly. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:22

That's that's awesome, Alex. Um, I'm curious to know, kind of where do you see, because you're a med student now, where do you see journalism and medicine intersect?

SPEAKER_00 13:34

That's a great question. I think that science journalism was actually part of what made me want to go to medical school in the first place and become a physician. Because even though it doesn't necessarily seem like it on the surface, I think medicine and journalism have a lot of similarities. One, as a journalist, like being as a like being a doctor, you are constantly meeting people for the first time and establishing a sense of rapport and trust very quickly. I mean, as also the host of Beyond Harvard, that's what you're doing today as well. But that sense of connection and trust, I think is something that both professions really share in common. Another one is saying, I don't know. You know, as a as a as a journalist, you you're not an expert in any specific thing, but you pull together all these different strands of incredible researchers and scientists and business people and policymakers, and then you are the one telling the story. And everyone looks at you as if you are the expert, right? Similarly in medicine, I mean, you've done so much training. You work with these incredible colleagues in their own specialties as well. But at the end of the day, we are still learning so much about disease and the human body and how different organ systems come together that oftentimes there are things that we still don't know about medicine. And being able to stay humble in addition to all the training and all the years of experience that you that you go through, I think is really important. So I'd say that's another kind of element that tied directly, that tied together journalism and medicine.

SPEAKER_01 15:17

Yeah, thank you for drawing those parallels for us, Alex, because I think in what I'm hearing is, you know, there's a couple pieces. There's the empathy piece of like building rapport, there's the humility piece, and there's also the ambiguity piece. Like there's a lot that you don't know, but you're expected to be a subject matter expert.

SPEAKER_00 15:33

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 15:34

Um, I want to, you know, pivot a little bit into learning a little bit more about your your time and and what made you choose to pursue medicine, um, especially right out of undergrad. Because you you were like ready to do your, I mean, you're doing it straight through. And so I'm curious to know what was, is there a moment there, Alex, that you would want to bring us into? Or what was kind of the the thought process there on wanting to go to med school and then to do so coming right out of Yale?

SPEAKER_00 16:02

Yeah. I don't think there was a single moment. Yeah. But one of the most, I think, pivotal classes I took at Yale was called Medicine and the Humanities by Professor Matthew Morrison. Massive shout out to him. Um I think that when the biomedical engineering side of things really got me interested in the human physiology and pathophysiology, like the science behind the human body, his class, Dr. Morrison's class, um, gave me a taste of the human side of medicine. And that side of medicine is one that isn't really required in like pre-medical curricula or some of those requirements that people um have to take. But it's something that really opened my eyes to what medicine really is. A lot of the texts, just for some context, that we read in this class were like literature. Like we read like Tolstoy, for example. We read Henry Marsh's Do No Harm. And the subject matter of these books were physicians and the work that they did, sometimes the mistakes that they made, sometimes the uncertainties they navigated, but always about the patients they cared for and the human connections that they fostered. And that kind of empathy, like you mentioned, was something that I hadn't, I think, fully appreciated when you're just in the granular details studying the um, I don't know, Frank Starling curve of um, you know, contractility. So I think that that was one of the moments where I saw medicine as this really interesting intertwining of both the technical expertise as well as humanistic sensitivity. And that to me was reason enough to apply to medical school and and say I'm sold.

unknown 17:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

That's fascinating. I love what you mentioned there, Alex. And you said the humanistic sensitivity of medicine.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:04

Could you unpack that for us a little bit more? I know you mentioned kind of through the text and what you learned, but maybe even now, kind of based on your couple years that you've been here in med school and kind of being in different rotations, what does that mean to you now?

SPEAKER_00 18:20

Yeah, that's a great question. There's this old proverb in medicine that goes cure sometimes, treat often, but comfort always. And that really stuck with me because these are patients' most vulnerable moments and often memorable and not necessarily in the good way, but what can physicians do to not just treat the disease, but treat the patient? We as physicians are in this incredibly privileged position to be able to not just be with someone during these vulnerable moments, but hopefully provide a little bit more comfort even amidst all this uncertainty, even when we don't know the answers ourselves. And so as a medical student, when I have a couple extra minutes, when you know the whole hospital is hectic and nurses are in and out, and and it's hard to really keep track of even who's a part of your care team anymore. When you sit down with a patient and you talk to them about your day, about their day, sorry. Yeah. And you, you know, bring them some food or or share some of their memories. And it just kind of creates that connection that they're like, wow, like people care about me, not just my disease, not just what I'm going through, but me. And I think it's easy to lose sight of that as a patient, especially as a patient that has maybe been in the hospital for a while now. And I think that some of those deeply human connections were something I made when I was volunteering at the Connecticut Hospice back in undergrad.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

Working at a hospice, I mean, I think those were some of the most just both heart-wrenching and also deeply uh serene moments I've I've spent with patients. There was there was one lady in particular, um, and and she was wonderful, and she had this amazing family who was able to visit her, which is not always the case. But we would talk and we would chat, and I played the piano for her a little bit actually. Um and and I think that during her last few days, she really felt a sense of of peace with me, with her family, with this new environment that was the Connecticut Hospice, right? And at the end, her son, um, who was himself like 68 or something like that, um, talked to me after she passed, and he said something I'll never forget, which is your presence helped her get to where she needed it to go. And that that stuck with me because at that point, I'm not even in medical school, I'm an undergrad. But that doesn't matter. At the end of the day, it's a human and another human connecting across generations, across geographies, and just really being able to share something that you can't describe. But that is the type of thing I'm talking about in terms of that humanistic sensitivity.

SPEAKER_01 21:35

That's such a beautiful story, Alex, and thank you for sharing that with us. And I think you know what you're really touching on there is almost kind of the intangible piece of it, right? Like the humanistic sensitivity, but it's almost it's sort of something that you can't really put a finger on, but it's kind of this this connection that exists.

SPEAKER_00 21:53

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 21:54

Yeah, I I think that's a beautiful story, and I think um you know that is this like I'd love to learn a little bit more about your experiences here in med school. And I know there's several different rotations that you have to do as well. So any anyone that you want to uh I know you're coming out of your pediatrics and you're so anything you want to speak to in terms of what's your experience been like here at Harvard Medical School and any of the rotations that you want to speak to as well.

SPEAKER_00 22:21

Yeah, I have to say being a clerkship student and doing all these rotations is the best part of being in medical school. We um well I mean we have like a week and a half of uh pre-clerkship classes, which are essentially the different organ systems, and we we were in the classroom, but being in the hospital, being with patients is what we came to medical school for. So this year has been incredible. Um I've already rotated through neurology, radiology, psychiatry, pediatrics, and I'm currently in OB Gyne. Um, and then I have medicine and surgery to go, internal medicine.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:54

And I think that it's it's something that keeps you on your toes. Because right when you start to get used to how a service works, what the residents do, what you're what you can help out with, how the attendings like to be presented to, what types of patients you're working with, then it's like, oh, on to the next one. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 23:13

Can't get too comfortable.

SPEAKER_00 23:14

Exactly, exactly. But I I think it's I think it's a tremendous privilege because at the end of the day, medicine is a very hyper-specialized field, especially in Boston. So when when else am I going to be able to spend a month at McLean Hospital, which is a purely psychiatric hospital, on their inpatient floor, working with patients going through um schizophrenia, schizophreniform, like that type of experience? Um, I'm I'm not sure I'll go into psychiatry, maybe I will, but when else would I get that opportunity? And then the next month in pediatrics at Boston Children's Hospital, working with kids, which are who are so sweet, and and being a part of their care team just feels so gratifying.

SPEAKER_02 24:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:01

I mean, going from these different blocks, and now hopefully in a couple weeks I'll get to deliver a baby. Um we'll we'll see. Hopefully.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Just casually delivering a baby, you know. No big deal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:13

Well, I think that's the beauty of now actually being in a space where you are with patients and you're still learning. Because you think about medical school, residency, fellowship, being an attending, like that's a long path, right? People are like, oh, you're gonna be in school for so long. You're technically only in school, in the classroom for that first year and a half of medical school, at least here.

SPEAKER_01 24:37

Okay, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:38

At every next stage of our kind of training, it's all in the hospital. We're all, we're, we're, we're already providers, right? Even as medical students, we're helping out in whatever way we can. As residents, you you you own parts of the service. You you are the primary point of contact for a lot of patients. As a fellow, you are sharpening your skills to be the best attending you can be. And then, you know, it goes from there. So that that that training is really almost more like an apprenticeship. And so this general year where you get to rotate through all these different specialties is just this explosion of experiences that I've enjoyed so much.

SPEAKER_01 25:21

That's great here, and it's I mean, it's fascinating to think about the the ownership and the level of responsibility that you have as a student when you're in in the hospital. As you mentioned, an apprenticeship is almost the better way to kind of capture that. I'm curious to know, you said the first year and a half or so is mainly in the classroom, and then it seems like after that the hospital becomes the classroom.

SPEAKER_00 25:41

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

What have what are some of the learnings that you've picked up kind of being in the hospital?

SPEAKER_00 25:47

Yeah, that's a great question. I think that there's two things I'll share. The first is that even though what we learn in the classroom might be a little more, might have some more definitive answers in the hospital, everything's a little more messy. I mean, I've realized that medicine is a bit more of an art, and different people still have different ways of doing things, even to um, you know, do the same procedure or even when when treating the same illness, people have slightly different ways of doing things, and that's based on preference, where they trained, and also the unique um profiles of each patient.

SPEAKER_02 26:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:24

And that that's a big learning curve because you think that you might know a couple things, but you know, you go in and you're like, how did you get this dosing for this patient in this particular area? Um and the second thing I would say is that the small things really do help. Whether that's the team with helping with a team or helping with a patient, that includes, you know, sometimes like helping residents write their notes. That includes um making sure that you have, you know, your your pockets with all the right things, the tape and the, you know, whatever that someone might need. And being able to, like, once your once your doctor, once the surgeon or the resident, you know, ties the knot, being ready with the scissors, like these small things really make it into their workflow. And once you make it into the workflow, then that's when you as a medical student can start, you know, assuming some of the responsibilities and learning some of the responsibilities of a sub-intern, which is like an uh like an advanced medical student. Okay. And then as a sub-eye, then as a resident, as a resident, a senior resident, fellow, etc.

SPEAKER_02 27:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 27:33

So I would say that, you know, starting with these small things has been eye-opening because we don't do a lot of this hands-on stuff in the classroom, but taking and translating some of that into the hospital um has really been helpful.

SPEAKER_01 27:46

And it's almost like translating the theory into the practice. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 27:49

That's right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 27:51

Um Alex, you have so you're in med school, which is four years.

SPEAKER_00 27:56

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 27:56

And then you were recently accepted into the business school program, which is incredible.

SPEAKER_00 28:02

Thank you so much.

SPEAKER_01 28:03

And I I want to get into a little bit of what made you choose to you want to apply for the program and where did your interests in the world of business and how did that come into play?

SPEAKER_00 28:13

Yeah, absolutely. So I'll be part of the MD MBA program. Um thank you. Um, and I initially got into the business side of things when I realized that even though a lot of the decisions that are made at the clinical, at the individual patient level in the clinic, impact patient care, there's so much out there that also impacts patient care that as a physician, um, as an individual practitioner, I might not be able to change. And that's when I realized that a lot of these systemic factors, whether that's related to insurance or patient access or excess healthcare spending, or shortening appointment times, or um anything that you know is talked about in the news these days, those things I want to have a hand in changing in the future. I see myself, you know, practicing and helping these patients one at a time, but also hopefully being able to innovate on different things at a systems level so that in the future our healthcare system can be a little less broken than it is today. And I think the best way that I've seen myself exploring that space, learning about that space, and learning about the business of healthcare is through business school. So it's it's it's an established program. There's there's uh about um, I think like six to twelve MD students each year in the MD MBA program.

SPEAKER_01 29:41

It's quite a small co-hop, right?

SPEAKER_00 29:43

It's a pretty small co-core. Um, but I think that we need more doctors who understand finance and who understand um corporate structures and and marketing, because if if if these decisions are being made in rooms in a language that that doctors don't understand, then we won't be a part of these conversations and these reforms moving forward. That's why there's also these incredible other combinations like MDJD, who are able to sit in these, in these you know, contract negotiating rooms, and and some of my mentors um have pursued that path as well. So being able to bridge medicine and law or bridge medicine and business is something that I really aspire to.

SPEAKER_01 30:26

It's almost like learning how to straddle these two worlds becomes a superpower.

SPEAKER_00 30:30

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 30:31

And and it what I'm hearing too, Alex, is you know, there's so much, I'm sure that you're sort of passively learning about the different problems and that you see business as sort of a way to kind of actively be part of the solution.

SPEAKER_00 30:42

Yeah. I mean, so many physicians and surgeons see so many different problems and and complain about it, rightfully so.

SPEAKER_01 30:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:50

But very it's very rare, I would say, for someone to actually have both the time and the skills to do something about it. And that's also the fundamentals of research, too. Research, a lot of the research that we see in clinical research, but more in I'm talking about the health policy research at the health systems level, is about identifying, oh, this is what could be improved. This is what is wrong with our current system. And here might be some potential recommendations that could be considered in the next in the next 10 years that theoretically might make an impact. I'm I'm more of a bias for action.

SPEAKER_01 31:33

You're like, let's get this, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like, why project on this, right?

SPEAKER_00 31:37

When you can really I I feel like I would be honestly burnt out by only pinpointing problems without actually being the one to potentially provide some solutions. So I'm a very kind of like action-driven person, hands-on. I've always, I think, tried to be.

SPEAKER_02 31:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:56

And I think this is kind of the best way for me to do that, at least how I'm envisioning it going forward. We'll see how a business school is and what I'll learn and the people I'll meet, um, maybe the things that'll start. But that's that's the vision that I have right now.

SPEAKER_01 32:09

I love it, Alex. I'm really excited to see see where that takes you.

SPEAKER_00 32:12

Thank you.

SPEAKER_01 32:13

Um, Alex, you know, as we're talking through, we're, you know, you spoke a bit to your experience at Yale and now your time here at Harvard, and you make it look very easy uh to get into all these fancy schools and fancy programs. Um, you know, and I but I certainly don't want to discredit you and the work that you've put in and also, you know, all that you've and considering the fact that, you know, you mentioned you're an international student. And so I'm really if you could provide us with a bit of color, particularly because a good portion of our audience is, you know, are prospective students or might be considering pathways to higher education. Could you give us a little bit of insight, Alex, into kind of what what tips you might have or how you think folks should approach applications to such programs?

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Absolutely. Well, I'll I'll just share a little bit more about my story as well. Because like I mentioned, um, my high school didn't have any infrastructure for applying to post-secondary institutions in the US at all. I mean, nobody, the last person that came um to any Ivy League school for my um high school was in 2003. That's the year I was born. So um in many ways, that was a path that I had to kind of carve by myself with my parents, obviously, and and to really advocate for myself. I'd say that's the first big lesson I learned because when you when you're in high school or when you're looking at these different programs, um, you know, you you have to set yourself apart. And and in a certain way, being international and being from these places that typically don't go to places like these, you are you unique already. But how do you make yourself stand out? And I think that for me, a lot of that in undergrad was different from what was what made me stand out in college, and it's different now from what's making me stand out in terms of the business side and policy side of healthcare. In in undergrad or sorry, in high school, I started like a therapy dogs um like initiative at my high school to help alleviate some like mental health and anxiety at my at my high school. And it was a huge success. We we grew that program, it's still going. And just being able to excel in whatever environment that you're in and take advantage of the resources that that that you're that you're given, I think is the most important thing. I actually, you know, we were just talking about this when I went to my younger brother's graduation at Yale um a week ago. I met with my um admissions officer, the person who believed in me enough to change my life. And I think it just takes one champion, one person who believes in you, believe in your story and your potential. And sometimes I think we need to ask ourselves, why not me? You know, why not you? Because everyone starts from somewhere. And I didn't have a lot of these resources available to me. But after me, my my brother um ended up coming to Yale. Like our parents really like they were they were amazed. Like, how did this happen? They never went to um any, you know, American school, much less like an Ivy League school. Um, the year after my brother, someone else got into another another, you know, fantastic um Ivy League school, and then more people have come to the US since. I I think that seeing other people and seeing role models who've done it before you has a big impact. So seek out those people. Seek out the people that you aspire to and email them, right? Email them because the worst they'll do is not reply, and you can follow up once or twice and reply eventually. Exactly. Exactly. Um, and I'd say the second thing is really the importance of storytelling as well. I think everything comes back to that because you at the end of the day are, and I know it's like hard as a high school student, but you are packaging your whole life into an application. So, how do you best use that space to tell your story? And that's very difficult because you only have a certain amount of space, and the admissions peoples are going to do a thorough job reading it, but they only know what's on the page, right? So, how do you tell your story? And I think that that's that takes a bit of strategy and it takes a lot of introspection and a lot of reflection. Um, writing my medical school like personal statement and secondary essays. Um, I applied to a lot of medical schools because I was, again, I'm an international student, um, didn't know where I'd get in. Um, I applied to 32. And each one has a lot of essays. Oh my goodness, this was your senior year in this is my senior year of college. I think the personal statement was the biggest piece in telling my story and telling how I found medicine through the humanity side of things, the technical biomedical engineering side of things, and how that converged, like we just talked about. But all these other essays at these 32 other schools also took so much time. So I would say how did you do that? Just even hearing you talk about it, I'm like, oh my goodness. No, I I mean it's it is a it is a it is a struggle. Yeah, let's be honest.

SPEAKER_02 37:26

It's a journey.

SPEAKER_00 37:27

Um but through it, yeah, I think I learned a lot about myself too. You know, I I I thought a lot about what types of challenges I've been through, how I've been a leader in different contexts, how I've decided on this path of bed. Like it's hard to sometimes, you know, it's sorry, it's easy to sometimes describe, oh, I want to help people. But what is like if we dig deeper, if we dig a layer even deeper than that, like where does that come from? And so I think that especially since medicine is a long path, yeah, and and you don't want to just go into it because your parents told you or, you know, you took one cool class once, I think that that process actually gives you a little bit of um gives you a little back, even if it doesn't seem like it in the moment.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Wow, I mean, you know, I'm hearing a lot of pieces, Alex. And I wanted to start by, you know, what you alluded to initially of like you can't be what you can't see, yeah. In the sense that kind of, you know, it seems like with with your story and kind of your brother seeing you, and then you know, another high school student, you were almost this trailblazer, and then you yourself kind of had a champion who who believed in you maybe before you believe in yourself. And so that's one piece of that I'm hearing, but then the other piece is sort of the self-discovery and introspection part of this. Um, I'd love as we kind of round out here, I'd love to learn a little bit more about we've talked a lot who you are in the classroom, Alex. And so I'd love to learn a little bit more about who you are outside of the classroom. You travel twice a week, Alex, from medical school here in Longwood to Cambridge to play volleyball, which might be a bit uncommon for a typical med student who's in rotations. And so can you, you know, when you shared that with me and you shared why, I thought it was, you know, really powerful. So can you share a little bit of why you're committed to kind of making time for yourself and and for your hobbies, you despite your busy schedule as a med student?

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:29

Um so that's the so I'm part of the Harvard Club volleyball team. That's mostly undergrads, but there's a couple grad students.

SPEAKER_02 39:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:36

And I think it's been a really nice way for me to branch out. I mean, medical school is such a silo sometimes. Being in the Longwood campus around all these uh hospitals. Yeah, it it kind of kind of limits your work. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But going to the business school, going to play volleyball on Harvard College, like it really I have different communities, I have different friends, and I have people that I can talk about non-medicine things with. And that's refreshing sometimes. Yeah. And I think that that really goes to my principle of being intentional with finding balance. Because I think that it's really easy to get burnt out or to get tired of something when that's all that you're doing. And that's and and you know, during certain times of your life, that's gonna be the case if you're you know studying for the MCAT or step one or step two. But at other times, what is going to sustain you? Right? Like, what is going to be those things that bring you that little bit of joy, that little bit of human connection at the end of a long shift or at the end of a long day? I look forward to volleyball because I get to play with these incredible group of guys, yeah, and I get to escape this bubble. And my my whole family plays volleyball. My dad got us into it, my brother played, and I played against, I played with my brother for two years while we were at Yale, and then now against him, and it's been our own version of Harvard Yale. Um, but those are the stories that I'm gonna remember. Those are the moments that my brother and I, my dad and I, really hold dear, and that I don't think I'd be a full person without. Even even outside of volleyball, I I try to, you know, do things that I enjoy when I can and carve out intentional time for that. One of those is just like simple as simple as getting meals with friends um at different like restaurants across Boston. Um, another one might be going again in the outdoors and doing some like hiking and camping trips or or skiing trips once in a while, too. Nothing like the Rockies, but um you know, I'll take what I can get. And I think that's been a theme for me, even growing up, being in high school, and then throughout college. I don't think that I could have been here today if it weren't for my parents kind of instilling that sense of balance in me. And also taking so much time out of their own schedules to take me to volleyball practice, to take me to swim practice, to take me ski racing every single weekend of those harsh Canadian winters. Like that made me who I am, yeah, just as much, if not more, than you know, being in the classroom and and and I guess being where I am today. Because I'd say that is what makes me who I am, and what my friends also appreciate me for bringing to the friend group and for bringing to the community as well.

SPEAKER_01 42:30

But I mean it's incredible to hear, Alex, kind of as we learn about the arc of your journey, of how so many of the values that you picked up during your time, you know, in in Canada and in your childhood, you very much carried into the rest of you know your how you sort of actively curate your your own life. Yeah. Um and another thing I'm hearing too is one is sort of rest from the other, right? It seems like volleyball is rest from from your work as a med student. And, you know, it's it's sort of these different ways of not only exercising your brain, but exercising your your body as well, right? And so um, you know, before we close out, Alex, I'd love to learn a little bit more about how you're thinking about the future. Um I, you know, there's I I mean, and you in particular different options from doctor to journalist to entrepreneur in the making, right? So I'm curious to know, Alex, what how are you thinking about it? What types of problems do you want to solve? What spaces do you want to be in? Um, what's sort of the story you want to write for yourself?

SPEAKER_00 43:30

You know, I I want to live a life of impact on the medicine side of things, taking care of patients. And I think that impacting one life and impacting one patient changes their whole world. So that sense of personal impact is something I want to continue to make and to expand upon as a full doctor in the future. And I think that on the health systems level, I do want to. Start my own company or organization that helps address some of these pressing healthcare issues at a broader scale. And I'm not sure exactly which healthcare problem that's going to be or when really I'm going to start that, maybe in business school. But being a problem solver is some is something I've really always aspired to be. And I think that being able to make an impact both in the clinic and on a broader scale is something that I would look back on my life on and be like, wow, I I did something. And maybe I'll kind of also just add that for me, especially with companies and entrepreneurship, it's very common to fail, right? But for me, I've I've I've thought about the only failures that I would see in my life are regrets. And I don't want to not regret having started something or to have addressed the problem that I've continuously seen. Because at the end of the day, that's the type of impact eventually that I want to have.

SPEAKER_01 45:09

And I love that reframe, Alex, right? Because it almost makes it, I think it's important to not think of failure sort of, you know, it's it's not trying, right? I think that's like sort of the the reframe here.

SPEAKER_02 45:21

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Um all right, Alex. Are you ready for a little rapid fire with Rashana segment? This is fun, lighthearted section to close us out here.

SPEAKER_00 45:30

Let's do it.

SPEAKER_01 45:31

Um all right, Alex. So you're from Canada.

SPEAKER_00 45:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:34

Duncan or Tim Hortons?

SPEAKER_00 45:36

Tim Hortons.

SPEAKER_01 45:37

That was too easy for you. You're like. Okay. We, Alex, we both share love for the piano.

SPEAKER_00 45:44

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 45:45

Favorite piece to play on the piano. Do you have one or a composer you want to go with?

SPEAKER_00 45:51

I'm going to go with Ballade pour Adeline.

SPEAKER_01 45:54

Oh, I love how you said it too with that. Well, I I'm like the lad or Adeline.

SPEAKER_00 46:00

I did I did a French immersion program in high school too. Um, I haven't used it that much.

SPEAKER_01 46:04

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:05

But um, but I still got it.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah. It's a good one. I love that one. That's really good. Um, you've mentioned sports a little bit, Alex, and and adventure. Volleyball tournament or ski trip? Just wondering if you use that.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Okay. I think at this stage of my life, ski trip.

SPEAKER_02 46:26

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 46:26

Um because typically it'll be somewhere new and it'll be with like friends and you know, the cabin, being in the cabin and skiing, like it's a whole the whole experience. But I'm only saying that after I've gotten to play with my brother for a couple of years and against him, because I would have like especially in college or sorry, in high school, we played together for one year. Um, when I was in grade 12, and he was in grade 10.

SPEAKER_02 46:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:49

And if you asked me then, then I would 100% pick volleyball tournament with him, like in college and stuff. So I was super lucky to be able to have all those games with and against him.

SPEAKER_01 46:57

So you sort of checked it off the case. Exactly. Yeah, I see.

SPEAKER_00 47:00

But great question.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

All right, Alex. You are a student here at the medical school and a student at the business school. Scrubs or suit? Which one are you going with?

SPEAKER_00 47:10

Ask myself that a lot. Um at this point, I'm at this point, I'm still gonna say suit.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

Really? Yeah. Oh, I like it. Okay. You're like, you prefer to keep it just clean.

SPEAKER_00 47:24

I think it's I think it's clean. It's simple. Yeah. Yeah. And I so even though a suit is like simple and clean though, maybe the scrubs will grow on me because I haven't spent as much time in the operating room yet.

SPEAKER_01 47:34

You've got a couple more years. Exactly. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:35

The scrub cap, it does it, it does look nice.

SPEAKER_01 47:38

Comfortable too, right? It's probably, yeah. Yeah, yeah. All right.

SPEAKER_00 47:40

So we'll see.

unknown 47:41

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:43

All right, Alex. So you went to Yale for undergrad.

SPEAKER_00 47:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

At Harvard for grad spot, and you know where I'm going with this.

SPEAKER_00 47:49

I do, I do, I do.

SPEAKER_01 47:51

Every fall, there's the infamous Harvard Yale game.

SPEAKER_00 47:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:55

Who are you rooting for?

SPEAKER_00 47:57

Who do you think?

SPEAKER_01 47:58

So if we did the math here, Alex, you were at Yale for four years.

SPEAKER_00 48:03

Correct.

SPEAKER_01 48:04

You're at Harvard for six years.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

Yes. Right. You'll be, exactly. I will be.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

So if I'm just, you know, doing the math.

SPEAKER_00 48:14

Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_01 48:15

Again, though, I don't want to answer for you. I'll leave it at that.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

No, I I I will always be a Yaley at heart. And especially after this last game.

SPEAKER_01 48:26

Well, yes.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

Um, and at the Harvard Yale game, it's more of a reunion for me and all my friends. Exactly. Um the one thing I will say is that I won't be upset if Harvard wins. In fact, either way, I will rush the field. It'll be fun. And and um, I think at the end of the day, either way, I'm okay. But deep down I can tell you. Exactly. Exactly. I will always, I will, I will never give you up either. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 48:53

You're loyal. Exactly. Exactly. Exactly. All right, Alex. So you're you're on the Beyond Harvard podcast. You spent the past two years at Harvard, another four more years or so here. My final question to you, Alex, is who are you beyond Harvard?

SPEAKER_00 49:10

Well, I I think I'm a lot beyond Harvard. I mean, in addition to, you know, being a Yaley.

SPEAKER_02 49:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 49:17

Um I I'd say I'm I'm a volleyball player. I'm a brother. I'm a son. I am a close friend. I'm a skateboarder or longboarder. Um, sorry. Uh I am a mentor. I I'm like a serial hobbyist. I I one of my favorite fun facts that my college roommate had is that I did these welding camps, and so like I've learned to weld and to like build like tables, like some carpentry type of thing. Um I'm a skier. I I don't know. I just I just think I I just hope to be a well-rounded person who is really passionate about the things that I'm working on, but also have a really fulfilling and full life outside of whatever career I have. Um and also a really nice family as well.

SPEAKER_01 50:21

And I certainly think you are you are just that, Alex, right? You're you're well-rounded and you're also multi-layered. And so thank you for you know giving us a glimpse in into your story and and bringing us in it. It's been such a treat to have you on the podcast. Thank you very much.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Thank you so much for having me. What a serendipitous moment it was to bump into you and you were playing piano at HBS as well. Um, it's been such a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 50:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Thank you.