Why Are Celebrities Like Terry Crews and Billie Eilish Quitting Porn?

You've probably heard that quitting porn is a "Christian morality thing." But what if Terry Crews, Billie Eilish, Steve-O, and Pamela Anderson—people who don't all share a religious worldview—are all saying porn wrecked their relationships, escalated into something they didn't recognize, and left them more isolated than ever? In this episode, Michael and Nick unpack three things celebrities keep naming: porn turns people into objects, it escalates endlessly, and it cuts you off from real connection. If you thought you were alone in this, you're not. And if you've been trying to white-knuckle your way out, there's a deeper issue underneath. **Take the Pressure Assessor:** https://rscky.com/pressure-lp **Learn more:** https://rscky.com

Quit Porn | Restoration Soul Care helps men get past willpower and behavior management to the root — the pain, pressure, and disconnection underneath the pattern. Hosted by Michael Kamber and Nick Buda.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Hey, welcome to the Restoration Soul Care podcast, where we have honest conversations about faith, neuroscience, and hope. I'm Michael Camber, a relationship and recovery coach.

SPEAKER_00 0:12

And I'm Nick Buda, a mental health and relationship coach. If you feel stuck in shame, addiction, or pain, you don't have to face it alone. Join us for some real stories, real tools, and a real path forward. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Hey, welcome back to the Restoration Soul Care Podcast. My name is Michael Cambra. This is Nicholas Abuda, my dear friend and colleague. And what we have for you today is something pretty interesting. Something telling. And uh it's sort of this uh twofold thing that I think we get into where I'm deeply horrified or terrified of these of these true realities, but also deeply encouraged at the same time.

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yeah. Yeah. I think what we want to start by saying is I am sure actually here's the proof of it. We have received comments on our podcast that, you know, this whole focus of warning people about pornography and helping them escape from it is a very uh religion-focused, morality-focused thing. And what we want to suggest today is actually there are people, there is a movement outside of even what is considered Christian or the church or religious in general that are saying, you know what? Porn's a giant problem. Yeah. And I'm getting out of it. Yeah. And what we want to focus on today is actually some pretty notable figures in our culture. We call them celebrities, saying, Not only has porn been a part of my life, but I am going to be forthright in saying I am actively either taking steps to remove it from my life, or I have done that and I'm conscientiously avoiding it altogether. Right. I think it's so noteworthy. Most of the people that we're gonna even mention in today's episode, you'll definitely be familiar with them. Uh, but most I don't think even necessarily come from a religious worldview, whether that be Christian or not. Right. I think most would be considered just yeah, a non-religious figure.

SPEAKER_01 2:22

A spiritual. Yeah.

unknown 2:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:24

So if you've ever thought, I don't really know anybody that struggles with porn, we're gonna ruin your day.

SPEAKER_00 2:30

And also we're gonna confirm you're not alone. Yeah. Uh here's how we'd like to structure this episode, too. Michael and I did some research of a lot of celebrities who have spoken about this and just kind of compiled some uh bottom line complaints. Maybe another way of saying it is a lot of people have been speaking about this, and there are some common denominators of why they view porn as a problem and how it took a toll or how it caused damage in their life. And we just want to kind of focus on three common denominators that are repeated in all these different interviews and articles and statements that these celebrities have made. And so here's the first idea is this point that people become objects when you are frequently using porn. Yeah. We use the term objectification. Uh here's an interesting thing. So Terry Cruz, my kids love America's Got Talent, he hosts that. How do you know Terry Cruz?

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Uh probably from Adam Sandler movies.

SPEAKER_00 3:40

Really? Yeah. So he's super buff guy. Uh I think he was in the expendable movies, right? He was in the expendable movies. Uh action character, funny guy. He said this. He's come um into the kind of the interview scene lately, and I do actually think I would preface it and say he has mentioned faith is a factor for him personally, but uh he's been really forthright with saying his marriage struggled for a long time. Uh, I don't know in all the ins and outs of that. But one of the dynamics he said that were that was impactful to that and other things was pornography. Yep. And so uh in a men's health actually magazine article, they interviewed him. Uh, and one specific thing that he said is the he could see porn being a problem because he started to see people only for their body parts. Is exactly how he said it. Yeah. I was like, wow, okay, this is significant. And then here's another thing that surprised me Pamela Anderson. For those of us who are familiar with the porn industry. So, Pamela Anderson, actress who uh was a model uh for much of her life, significant with Playboy movies, uh, interesting. She has come full circle in her later years of life and has reflected on pornography, especially where it has come since she first started in the sex industry, uh, and said basically in her interview that she sees pornography as replacing uh sex as a matter of intimacy between people and more just a matter of consumption, which is so huge. So just with even those two perspectives and voices, what comes to mind for you, Michael, when you think about like objectification or what are you hearing from other celebrities that are saying, hey, part of the problem is like this changes the way I see people.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

Yeah, well, it's so funny that we bring the the the celebrity idea into this conversation because I think in some ways celebrity culture, if you will, um I think in some ways already objectifies people. Yeah. Um and I think some of the outworking or the evidence of that is like the level of plastic surgery or like fillers and stuff you see on people's faces. Um but and the idea is that my value is in my appearance, it's in how I look, it's in my body parts, and whether the plastic surgery stays in the face or it goes below the neck. Yeah. Either way, the idea is that um there's a modification to the body so that I find value in somebody else's eyes. Right. Yeah. And I know not in all circumstances, I realize there's medical conditions and things of that nature that plastic surgery can uh help restore and things of that nature. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the thing that you stated first, which is I think what Terry Cruz was getting at, is it the objectification of people. I don't see people for people created in God's image. I see uh I see body parts. Yeah. And if I'm approaching another human being and all I can see from ten feet away is, you know, various body parts, and I'm already assessing my level of engagement that I'm gonna give to you because I think you are attractive or I think you are elevated socially because of the way that your body parts uh present or you present your body parts rather to the world. Um it throws off the whole dynamic of how we even relate because it's not about you anymore. It's in a lot of ways, it's still sort of in this I'm gonna use the term masturbatory because it's it's for me. Like the way that you the way that I consume your body parts as I'm uh approaching you or looking at you is for me. Does that make sense? Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

And I would say if if that's your well if you're trained to uh increasingly see people that way, then really uh relationships uh in general I would see uh being very transactional. Yeah. Like your value is only what you uh how you present.

SPEAKER_01 7:44

Yeah. And if that value uh gets called into question, then I might leave the relationship.

unknown 7:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 7:51

I'm gonna take us down a rabbit hole. I'm actually not gonna take it, I just want to say I wonder if there is some uh th uh unintentional thought process behind why divorce has gotten so prevalent. Or maybe even why people just don't even get married as much as they used to, because it's like, well, you might age and sag in some places, and I might have to trade you in for a new model, and I'd really like to not be committed financially, relationally, socially to you.

SPEAKER_00 8:14

Yeah. It's such a fascinating thing to zoom out and think about the implications. And again, uh I don't know where Terry or Pamela are spiritually or worldview-wise, but it's very interesting that they both have concluded very strongly that that sucks. When you start to do life that way, when you interact with people that way, it sucks. Because the the other part of it is if you relate that way, you probably also see yourself that way. And so and here's what's interesting uh, both of those individuals are very have a lot of what we would call outward beauty. Like Terry Cruz is incredibly jacked, handsome guy, uh, very fit. Uh Pam Anderson's been celebrated for her outward beauty, and it's like even that wasn't enough. So it was like, but there's also something more I could have that would make me more beautiful, and it's this endless pursuit of it's something physical, it's something outward, and how unsatisfying and actually I don't even know what the word taxing that is to live that way.

SPEAKER_01 9:20

Um, always coming up short. Yeah, you said something I want to make sure that we don't skip over because this is like an aha moment for a lot of guys that I work with. It's easy, easy. It's more familiar when we talk about how objectification is so prevalent and like how we objectify other people. The thing that flies under the radar quite a bit for us is that there's also a self-objectification that occurs. Especially when we go to pornography over time, habitually, repeatedly. Um, what we start to do is we start to notice is um I'm not built like the actors in pornography. And so if I'm not, then I'm less than or I'm only good to other people, I'm only good to women if I am, you know, 6'3 and stacked like Terry Cruz. Not that nothing's wrong with that. But it's when you define yourself by that and then you start to say, Well, I'm only good in the world, I only matter to people, I'm only good to myself, I only matter to me if I am you know this picture of physique or whatever you want to call it. Um it's it's really hard to believe that you matter, and it's really hard to trust that people will show up for you just because you're you, not because you look a certain way or act a certain way or bring something to the table.

SPEAKER_00 10:35

And let me give you a little sneak peek of what we do behind the scenes in the one-on-one work that we do with individuals, is we try to show them that that the desire that like that felt longing for value and acceptance and uh even admiration, that's God given. Yeah, it's not wrong, uh, but it's so misdirected. So, like when I think of those two individuals, Terry Cruz or or Pamela Anderson, man, they're speaking for all of us that are saying, Man, I just long to be desired. Uh, we've mentioned the quote before by Kurt Thompson, you know, that we're born into the world looking for someone who's looking for us. Yeah. Uh we will go to any length to make ourselves feel that we're desired, that we're significant. And so we want to affirm that, but also say there's we were created for it, and there's an intentional way of how that need is met. Um, and when we settle for a this model of relating, it only leads to a lot of destruction and brokenness. Um, it kind of leads into the second theme that comes up frequently, and that is it actually builds on this first point. Once people become objects, when we start to relate in a transactional way, uh there's never enough. And so then you fall into this, you just mentioned it. There's this cycle, endless cycle, of needing more and more to be satisfied. And so that's actually what the second theme that we've seen from a lot of these celebrity quotes is is like uh there's no end. There's always this escalating uh pursuit of I need more to get the same return. And so this actually gets into addiction language of tolerance, right? Where you're um the thing that once bought you brought you pleasure uh ceases to do so. And so you need either a higher intensity, uh a more extreme version of it, and often those higher intensities and more extreme versions come with greater damage over time. So, interesting enough, uh Billy Eilish, right, who's been hugely successful, very young lady, um, has come forward actually at an in a Howard Stern interview a couple years ago. And she was saying, not only did she use pornography, but one of the first things that she knew she could kind of step back outside of herself and see what was happening is uh, you know, the porn that she started with uh quickly became centered around the dynamic of more violence or abuse or like just aggression. And she's like, wait, what is this? Like, and I find myself almost naturally drawn into that. What's going on? Um man, that that in and of itself, I have so much admiration for her being transparent about that because a lot of people are not talking about uh even that dynamic in the porn industry. I I don't know, we just said it before we were recording, you said like how much percentage of statistics are made up.

SPEAKER_01 13:42

Uh do you need to make up some statistics?

SPEAKER_00 13:45

I don't I don't know the source, uh, but there has been multiple um enterprises, there's been multiple people that have kind of taken a swab of what's offered on the internet today. And the vast majority, I won't even put a percentage, the vast majority of content involves aggression, involves some sort of interaction that if it happened, even in a non-sexual way, if that kind of dyn relational dynamic happened, you'd be like, that's abusive. Yeah. Like that's not okay. Yeah. But yet that's the l the majority dynamic within pornography that's being consumed on the internet. So gosh.

SPEAKER_01 14:25

I'm trying to remember. I was listening to uh I I think it was a podcast the other day. Oh, I remember now. If yeah I remember what podcast it was. But it w there was a woman who was uh a sexologist or a uh expert in sexuality or something, and she was talking about the violent nature of pornography, and she was ta I think she showed a chart, I'm misremembering uh it now, but she was talking about like how how much pornography uh uh choking was the thing she was talking about. Like how how much choking has escalated in uh pornographic videos over the last like 15 or 20 years, and it's like a staggering amount of of uh staggering increase. So like the violence is there, it's growing. It's just like, man, that's the question that uh I like that Billy Eilish asked that. What are we even doing? Yeah. What is this?

SPEAKER_00 15:16

Yeah, I like what what happened? Like I'm I'm realizing what has gone by, and I'm pretty sure most of this happened within her teenage years. Uh she was one of many to admit that you know her first exposure to pornography was uh what we would call pre-adolescence, you know. Um here's another thing I was interested in. I got into a rabbit hole of looking at some of this, and um Steve O. Steve O. Do you remember from the Jackass movies? I remember. Uh man, has he been on a journey and I admire what he what's what is happening in his life. You know, uh he's talked frequently that he feels like he has an addictive personality and he's struggled with substances. But on this uh one interview he had recently, within the last couple years, he was talking about um he made an offside comment and the interviewer was thrown off. He's like, Oh yeah, and I went to uh an inpatient program for sex addiction. And the guy's like, wait, what? Like, you don't just throw that out. And he slowed down and he said, Yeah, you know, what started with pornography quickly turned into just kind of compulsively, compulsively sleeping with people when they were on the road and promoting movies. And he's like, I don't even know these people's names. And these these kind of just uh again, that transactional way of just treating people was one thing, but then he said, I found this dependency on it. Like when I go to a city or when I have even a relationship, that's just something I have to have. Um, and when I don't have it, it just leaves me feeling awful. Yeah. And so he wrestled with this this compulsion that he he said it it felt just like cocaine. It felt like uh alcoholism, but it was with people. And um so he actually he was forthright with going into, I think it was like a 30 or 60 day inpatient program, and then made a uh goodness, he said he made a personal commitment based off some of his therapist's recommendation to abstain from all forms of sexual or sexual interaction for over a year. Wow. Just because he felt like it had such a stronghold in his life. So man.

SPEAKER_01 17:23

That takes a lot of courage.

SPEAKER_00 17:24

Yeah, yeah, and uh, but it also speaks to something that happens with a lot of guys too, which is what I started with in my teens, maybe was some curiosity, and I'm looking at uh magazines or or photos or whatever in in high school, and now it's turned into massage parlors and I'm considering prostitutes, and it's like, hey, that that doesn't always happen to every guy. Um but at the same time it is an there's a natural inclination towards it to say I need more to keep up the same feeling. Um scary progression. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 18:03

And the line the thing that's also I think scary for me that I'm noticing with clients now is the like the lines between those things get blurrier and blurrier. And it doesn't feel like there's like a extra hurdle or barrier that it takes to get to the next step. Because it's like I mean, even if you just briefly as an example, talk about like just going on the internet and accessing pornography. Well, there used to be this hard barrier between that and like paying for pornography because you used to have to go to a store and buy physical media, and now you don't. Like you can also just use your credit card and pay for stuff online, and now the barrier between that and interacting with a real person again used to be a barrier. Now it's less of a barrier because you can pay for content from a real person just as easy as you just pay for content that's just you know mass produced. That's a good point. And then the next obvious step from there is like, well, I've already interacted with a real person, so why not just drive to a massage parlor? Yeah. Why not just go you know actually find like a uh prostitute somewhere? Yeah. Why not just go get on a dating app when that my spouse doesn't know about and just start hooking up with people left and right? You know? It's like it's all the barriers that used to exist between the levels aren't the hurdles aren't as high anymore, I think is what I'm trying to say. Yeah. So it's easy to wake up one morning and go, oh gosh, what have I done? I'm on step ten of how did I get here? How did I end up in massage parlors? Yeah. When it's like, oh, I I was just using porn last week. I didn't think I was this far along.

SPEAKER_03 19:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:27

Which leads to this kind of final dynamic that we love really highlighting, and so we'll kind of end here. And that is, you know, when this struggle becomes a compulsive thing and it begins to train us, it we're conditioned by it. We we've used that term before. The biggest thing that is damaged is how we show up relationally. Yep. And so I man, I want to spend our last few minutes here. Uh I I compiled a list of quotes. Again, going back to Terry Cruz in the interview in the Men's Health magazine, he said, quote, my wife literally said, I don't know you anymore. And man, how telling was that that they lived a ton of life? I believe they've been married over 20 years, and she saw in real time how her husband was changing significantly from this dynamic and others. Uh Theo Vaughn, right? He's got the incredible podcast right now, um, started in reality TV. Uh man, he's been forthright in some of his um his podcast, like his solo podcasts. What was the name of it again? Oh, it's the the past weekend podcast. And he said with tears how he's making an intentional effort to step away from pornography because he saw uh this deeper and deeper cycle of loneliness. Uh and what was the other word he mentioned? Oh, and just like depression. As a hey, I act out and then I I find myself deeper falling into this dip. And I feel the big here's the big thing I wanted to point out. He said, I've never felt so isolated relationally, and really no one none of my other relational dynamics have changed. I just feel more cut off from them. Yeah. Um man, and I can bring others. Another one that was surprising to me, Chris Rock, the comedian, incredibly successful. Um he said the biggest warning sign for him is he saw that his use of porn and other things had downloaded a preset um list of expectations and desires immediately as he showed up into a relationship, which were unrealistic and destructive to the woman. Yeah. And I was like, wow. Okay, so much to say here. Um What do you want to say first? Before I give a just a quick thought. I think you go ahead and you can go ahead and give your thought. The big thing I want to encourage people with if when they're listening to this is this idea that again the struggle with pornography or any other sexual dynamic is not a biological issue or a moral issue alone, but at its very core, this is a relational issue. It's a relational breakdown. We've said that before, but the reason why I say that this is so important is because for those who are seeing the damage in their life, uh if the answer to this issue is uh self-effort or um, you know, just filters, just abstinence, um, and not a deeper look into the core of a person of who they are relationally and who isn't around them relationally, um, then goodness, there there's never going to be an answer to that deep pain that that they're carrying around. Yep. So uh I'm just I'm so uh thankful that even people, again, who are not uh coming from a Christian worldview are saying, man, there's just like this this hole, there's this uh pain that not only has been been the the reason why I've continually gone to gone to pornography, but pornography has just made it worse. Is I guess what I want to point out. You go for it.

SPEAKER_01 23:44

What I try to communicate to people, or maybe I don't say this to people directly because I don't want to give them uh inappropriate expectations, I can show you the steps to quit porn, and you can do it in a few weeks. But what I have learned and what I have observed this hundreds of times in people that I've coached and that we've coached, is that if we don't deal with the wounding or the pain underneath it, you'll it'll come back. It just will. Or you'll find something else that's as destructive, but maybe more culturally or relationally palatable, that we wouldn't go, oh, this is a problem. This is like, oh, he just has a really strong hobby. He's just really into sports. Yeah. Um like those things are masking something. So if we we have to do the deeper work of getting into like where's the pain? That's what I I love that question. Where where's the pain? What hurts? Because if we can figure that out and start working there, like this is the thing I don't I don't say out loud because people usually look at me where they don't believe it. Like, porn will eventually like you'll eventually just quit. Like it'll go away if we deal with the root issues. Does that make sense? Yes.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

And that's what we love doing is saying, actually, let's focus on the real uh cancer that's that's eating away. And and by uh a complete correlation, the desire for porn will naturally go away. Here's kind of the quote I wanted to say, wrote it down. You know, our souls are sustained by communion, not consumption. So goodness. Uh that's it. Yeah. What what we want to say to all people is you are created for or you operate, whether you view you have a creator or not, you operate with a need for um connection. Uh and if you live by the idea of consumption, what new experience, what new thing can try to satisfy me, not only will it come up empty, but it will take way more than it gives. And if you stumble on this beautiful way, which we believe uh is part of God's design and what Jesus has secured is uh this beautiful thing called relationship on his terms, it is so, so what our soul needs. Yeah. Yeah. Amen. Uh as we wrap up, you know, we we want to encourage anybody who's listening to say, like, you know, if there's an aspect of what we talked about today that resonates with you, maybe has put a little light bulb bulb on and say, Oh, that's it. That describes where I'm at. Please reach out. Uh, you can go to rfcky.com. Uh, you can follow us on our socials, which is at Nick W Buddha.

SPEAKER_01 26:18

At Mike Camber with K.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yep, Instagram. Um shoot us a message. We will always reply. Yes. And uh let us know how we can help. Again, whether that translates into a coaching counseling relationship, whether that is just a conversation, whether it's pointing you to some good resources, we just want to help. Yeah. Uh free. Free. The quick quit. Oh, I can't. And there's a tongue twister. It's a tongue twister. The quit porn quick start guide. That's available for free. For free. On the website.

SPEAKER_01 26:49

Rsc K Y.com backslash quick start. Or you can shoot me a text and I'll send you a physical copy, 502-858-5859. Or the final way, if you're feeling frisky and you're thinking there's a group of us we want to go through this together, you can order multiple copies off Amazon.

SPEAKER_00 27:05

That's a great idea. Awesome. Hey, as we always say every week, don't do this alone, and we'll catch you guys next time.

SPEAKER_01 27:15

Hey, thanks for joining us today. If you found this helpful, do us a huge favor and subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Or better yet, send this to someone who needs encouragement.

SPEAKER_00 27:25

For more tools, resources, and information about our coaching, check out rscy.com. Keep showing up. Yeah, we'll catch you next time.