Pastors Struggling With Porn—You Don't Have to Do This Alone

You're a pastor. You know the verses. You've preached them. And you still can't stop going to porn. It's not because you're weak or disqualified. What you're carrying is a trust problem downstream of relational pain—and shame is keeping you from the connection that could actually set you free. In this episode, Michael and Nick speak directly to pastors and men in ministry who've carried a secret sexual struggle. They talk about the unique shame pastors face, why the isolation compounds the cycle, and what it actually looks like to step out of hiding and into healing—without your entire life falling apart. **Take the Pressure Assessor:** https://rscky.com/pressure-lp **Learn more:** https://rscky.com

Quit Porn | Restoration Soul Care helps men get past willpower and behavior management to the root — the pain, pressure, and disconnection underneath the pattern. Hosted by Michael Kamber and Nick Buda.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:02

Hey, welcome to the Restoration Skull Care podcast, where we have honest conversations about faith, neuroscience, and hope. I'm Michael Camper, a relationship and recovery coach. And I'm Nick Buda, a mental health and relationship coach.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

If you feel stuck in shame, addiction, or pain, you don't have to face it alone. Join us for some real stories, real tools, and a real path forward. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_00 0:33

Hey, welcome to the Restoration of Soul Care podcast. Today I want to drop you right into a quick story. In 2012, uh it was actually early summer, early, I think to mid-June, I sat in my living room across from uh one of the pastors at my church, and I told him everything. I had just confessed to uh almost decade-long pornography addiction. I'd already told my wife earlier that morning, and I was just in, you know, uh out of it, if you will. And my wife was crushed, and I, for the first time in my life, was coming clean to somebody that uh could do something about it, or at least that's I that's what I believed. And I know that that carried real consequences. I was in the middle of a year-long elder training process. At the end of this, I was going to be ordained and come on as an elder at this church and eventually become the pastor of care and counseling. Um, and man, uh just in that moment, what broke open and what I found and what I was looking for is exactly the whole reason that restoration soul care exists today. Is that I was a pastor in the weeds of this thing that I had no idea how to get out of because the traditional stuff that I tried, accountability apps, uh filters, um praying harder, reading more scripture, memorizing scripture, all of those things I had faithfully spent my energy and effort and life on, and none of it had worked. And now I was in this position of I gotta do something different. And so that's what you're gonna get here today. That's what unfolded. Um, if you landed here and you're a pastor or a person in ministry, uh, you probably found us from the common good article that came out uh this week, sometime this week. And we're glad you're here. And today, this episode is for you because if you are a pastor or someone in ministry who's carried a secret struggle for any length of time, Nick and I both know acutely what that's like. And we have spent um our our careers, our ministry, and our lives, and we're in the middle, in the weeds of that right now, actively caring for people in your place. So today we want to spend some time talking to you.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I want to double down on the fact, again, this is why Restoration Soul Care exists, and we really want to highlight this on this episode, which is Michael and I are both uh men who have served as pastors and have been pastors who have struggled with pornography. And our story and the way that God has worked in it is the reason why we do what we do in restoration soul care. But if you're a pastor and you're listening and something is just being gripped inside your chest, or maybe your stomach just dropped, uh, we want you to listen to this episode. Or uh if you have a friend who's a pastor in your life and you're listening to this, who uh you may have been confided in to say, my pastor struggles and you need to pass this episode on to them, please do so. This is why we're having this open conversation. Michael, let's dive in. Uh, I love your quote that you say over and over again. Pastors are people too. Okay?

SPEAKER_00 3:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 3:26

I want to start there because what do you mean by that?

SPEAKER_00 3:29

Yeah. Well, it's I'm getting at the idea that uh pastors are no different than the average person who's not a pastor and that they struggle with the exact same things that many of the people in their congregations do. So whether that be insecurity, self-doubt, imposter syndrome, or a secret sin struggle like pornography, they're not immune to that just because they're the guy or person standing in front of you every week preaching and teaching the Bible. And so when I say pastors are people too, it's an attempt at sort of uh carving out a little more grace and mercy for these people whose man, oftentimes their public persona is uh they we can start to believe that that's just who we are. And when we do that, we sort of leave behind this idea that, like, oh no, I'm I'm human, right?

unknown 4:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:17

That's what I'm getting at when I say that.

SPEAKER_01 4:20

I had a mentor uh who discipled me in college, and then when I made a decision to move towards ministry, he said, Hey Nick, get ready for a huge target to be put on your back. Uh and of course he's referring to spiritual warfare, but also just a simple principle of you're still a man. Uh, you know, the the truth of 1 Corinthians 10, which is no temptation that is uh among men is uncommon. So uh just because you're in ministry doesn't mean you're gonna be just shielded. In fact, in some ways, you're gonna face more vulnerability to struggles, to loneliness, to temptation simply because of the demand of ministry. Uh, there's a very real thing called spiritual warfare. So I think it kind of just sucks that we don't talk enough about uh the unique struggles and vulnerabilities of pastors. And I'm so glad we're doing that today. We we want to focus in on specifically sexual struggles, right? And, you know, we always mention statistics, or we we have sometimes mentioned statistics on our podcast here. And if this helps at least get the conversation rolling, uh, two organizations that we think do some incredible research is Purity Desire uh out west. Actually, I think they're they're now in Nashville, closer to us. Oh it's kind of cool. And also Barner Research, which is kind of the age-old research for the church. Uh, if you compile a lot of their data together, they say that uh about 66%, so two-thirds of pastors have admitted to pornography being a struggle at some point in their story. Two-thirds of pastors. Okay, so this is a significant conversation. And here's where I double down at least one in five pastors are saying it's a struggle now. And I don't know what what you would think, Michael, but I would say those are that 20% are probably the brave ones who are being honest when in reality the struggle is probably even a little bit higher than that. What do you think?

SPEAKER_00 6:19

What do you think? Yeah, well, I think the it's it's in how that thing is worded, right? Pastors who have admitted to the thing. So um speaking specifically for myself, but I know this is true of a lot of other people, and especially pastors, is that um I'm not gonna admit it. Like this thing stays hidden for a reason because there's a lot of shame around it. There's a lot of I mean uniquely for pastors, uh uh what I sort of touched on a second ago is who you are as a pastor is tied up to your paycheck, which is tied up to your in some ways, your own uh your own perception of your standing with Christ in eternity and your identity as a husband, your identity as a father, your identity as a good man who who's a Christian who follows God's word. And so when we have this secret thing like pornography that we keep inside, it makes it really tricky to admit that. It makes it really tricky to trust somebody with that because literally all of life could fall apart if the wrong person found out about this thing about us. So oftentimes the only logical conclusion that we come to, albeit not a good one, is to keep it hidden, is to keep it secret. So when we encounter surveys like that, it's like, I don't even want to even hint that this might be an issue for me. So I'm not gonna admit it, not gonna cop to it.

SPEAKER_01 7:39

Yeah, I think across the board, anybody who has a sexual struggle within the church, you and I have uh experiences firsthand, but also in working with men and couples, uh shame is just an inevitable factor, right, in this struggle. But what's interesting is you're right. Uh, when you uh carry the responsibility of being a spiritual leader, say a past pastor, and this is part of your struggle, I feel like that already overwhelm, overwhelming shame factor just gets compounded exponentially. Um and one thing that we've noticed, we can kind of talk about this right now, is like uh any person who struggles with, say, a compulsive addiction or a behavior, uh, it's really tempting to start compartmentalizing and just kind of like saying, Well, I'm just not gonna give mindfulness to that part of my life. I'm just gonna kind of work around it, manage it, keep it hidden, uh, and I'm gonna keep doing what I'm doing. Um, and I think pastors can do that same very same thing too. Like they have this super shameful struggle that they're finding incredible difficulty um bringing to towards others and also finding victory. And so they kind of compartmentalize it. And then what happens is just a lot of those dynamics compound and compound and compound until it just kind of blows up. Um in terms of your story, Michael, my story, what we've talked about, uh, how did that management of our behavior look like?

SPEAKER_00 9:15

Yeah, it it felt like this thing, like the secret that I had to protect. And so it affected how I showed up in relationship with my wife, with my kids, with my friends, my community, uh the other pastors at at the church. And I was I had to be like extra cautious and hyper-vigilant about how I spoke, what I said, about the things I joked about and laughed at, because there I was always afraid or paranoid, even you might say, that I was gonna drop some hint or clue that I was actually struggling with this or dealing with this, and that nobody knew about it. And if somebody did find out about it, like that was the panic moment. That was the the day that I believed that my entire life was over. And in fact, that's what I rolled into that morning, expecting that to happen when I confessed everything to my pastor. But I mean, for me, like it looked like I was super irritable all the time around my wife, around my kids, around um church, like people that expected and asked things of me. I just did not want to engage in a lot of ways, and I would spend a lot of time and energy like distracting myself. So, you know, at the time when all this came out, it was a totally different season of life now that I look back on it. But it was a lot of video games, it was a lot of uh social media, doom scrolling, a lot of distracting myself from this dark secret that I carried. And it uh distance is the word I would use to describe it. Like it made me distant from from the people that got it put in my life to care well and love me, care for me well and love me.

SPEAKER_01 10:49

That's a really good point. There's actually a common uh we actually use a tool, a scale, to help guys grow in self-awareness. And I think about I'm I'm speaking of the faster scale. Uh developed by Michael Dye and his addiction models. And uh it's interesting, he says when we forget priorities and we kind of live within any sort of unhealth, we naturally kind of move into this state of anxiety. We're trying to avoid, we're trying to self-manage. And so what that leads to is just an inability to sit in the quiet. Like I don't want to sit with my thoughts, I don't want to just be because I don't like what I'm gonna find there. And so, like you said, I can I can totally relate with that in my own story too, just kind of running, running, running, go, go, go, go, trying to outrun that noise. Um, you know, it's interesting for me when I when this struggle was in my life, uh, I was so disconnected from it, or I tried so hard to be disconnected from it because it was so shameful that eventually, you know, it was it was coming out and affecting the way I also showed up relationally, uh, specifically in my marriage. And so my wife and I at the time were going to marriage counseling. And in in my thoughts or in my honest reflection, I was like, oh, this just boils down to me working too much, uh, or uh goodness, us not having enough communication skills or just learning our personalities. And I was so out of tune with the impact of going to pornography, what that was doing. And I remember even uh sitting in the counselor's office, and the counselor asked basically about that, like head on. Like, do you struggle with pornography? And I was like, uh, you know, it's been part of my story, but like I wouldn't say it's a struggle. But in reality, here's how out of touch I was. I was probably going to it at least once a month. And it's it and it's not even about the frequency of it, but it was the fact that it had a regular place in my life, and I had compartmentalized it so much that I was out of tune with it, the impact it was having on all of me. My mental health, the way I showed up relationally, uh, and of course, the way I could lead spiritually. Um, I tried to just self-manage through all of it.

SPEAKER_00 13:06

Yeah. Yeah, you bring up a good point. Um it holds this place in our lives, and we end up in compartmentalizing it, we end up telling half-truths about it. And so because we recognize that like honesty isn't is an important part of being a Christian and uh you know a pastor, um we'll be sort of honest about it. And so we might say things like, Yeah, it's a part of my story, or it's something I used to deal with. I know I've said those words over the years. Um, but we rarely come out with the whole truth because of that fear. And what we're afraid of, I think a lot of times is being labeled as an addict or being labeled as you know, somebody who's gross or uh a pervert or or whatever other words come to mind that we don't want to be associated with. And um one of the things that you know that we talk about all the time that we've had to grapple with is this is this idea that typically when we go to pornography, it's not a lust problem. It's not um it's not a willpower problem, it's not something that's just like, oh, why can't you just quit? Don't you know, don't you know that this is a problem? Just stop. Um it's something a lot deeper than that. And oftentimes people approach quitting pornography the same way that we got into it. And if you're in pornography right now, it sort of just feels way too easy to go to and it's really hard to stop. And so oftentimes we go, well, the only way that I know that this might look like to quit is to for it to just be easy and I just stop going to it one day, right? And oftentimes we tell ourselves lies like, Oh, it'll I'll I'll stop using porn when I'm when I'm in ministry and when a church actually calls me to be a pastor, or I'll quit using porn when I get married, or I'll quit using porn when you know whatever fill-in-the-blank thing is coming later in life that I think is going to be a big enough milestone that's gonna shock me into reality and go, okay, I actually have to stop now. But none of it ever works. It never, it never stops because we've never stopped to slow down and pay attention and ask really hard questions about ourselves, really curious questions about our own stories. What is the real, what is the real problem?

unknown 15:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 15:13

What's actually under the surface?

SPEAKER_01 15:16

No, that's great. I uh the way I'd word it too is I well, maybe even speaking for myself. I was so used to being a quote-unquote leader and an expert in speaking to spiritual things that I couldn't help but see this struggle as purely a spiritual thing, right? And so what that means practically is well, then I gotta handle it with spiritual things. I gotta pray more, uh, I gotta uh be closer to the Lord. Um, I'm I'm just not repenting enough. Uh maybe there's more scripture or books I need to read about renewing my mind and my heart. And, you know, we've said this over and over again. We are definitely in favor of this being a spiritual struggle and a moral issue, but to just put it in that category is to forget that this affects our whole person. Um, we won't go into it here because we've spent a lot of other episodes on this as well. But I always love just to point out the text of 1 Corinthians 6 when Paul's talking about uh sexual sin within the church in Corinth, and he comes to this conclusion. I don't know exactly what verse, go read the chapter yourself and reflect on it. But I love the translation that says um what Paul's talking about, the seriousness of sexual sin, he says no other sin so clearly affects the body, or uh the way you can translate it is this sin is a sin against your own body, aka it is affecting uh your brain, it is affecting biological structures, which then rewrites your emotions and the way that you just show up relationally. And if you're not uh also engaging those spaces, uh I would go as so far as to say you're you're not really ever gonna find victory in this area. When I sit down with a guy and try to wrap their mind around this principle, I use the illustration of a noose, right? So like hanging from the gallows type newts. Uh, and I know that's morbid, uh, but at the same time, guys really resonate it with it because they feel the effects of that. They're saying, I got this struggle that it feels like I got a rope around my neck, and uh, the more I've tried to wrestle with it, I feel like the tighter it chokes me and the more I struggle. And so I say, well, think about the three components of ONUS, right? And this this helps guys uh grasp that it's more than, or it's yes, it's a moral issue, but it's also more than that. Or I'll say, Hey, what you're in tune with is the actual loop that's hanging around your neck, which sometimes we relate to the addiction cycle, right? There's a trigger, you get aroused, there's certain things you go back to, eventually it leads to, if you want to use the term relapse or falling to sin again, and then it repeats that cycle over. We're familiar with that loop, and a lot of that loop is actually uh reinforced by your biological structure, your body, right? Your uh libido, your sex drive, uh, and like what turns you on. Let's just be graphic here, and all these different things. So, in terms of the body, that's what's really happening in this addiction cycle is how you show up, how your body's triggered and aroused. And so uh we always tell guys, too, some of the healing work that can happen is bringing healing to your body and just understanding that uh repeated use of pornography has conditioned certain natural mechanisms in your uh in your body to be uniquely set in this rut, right? Of feeling like it needs to have this sexual release, it can only be aroused by these things. And guess what? That's healable, right? Through interrupting that cycle, uh, these biological things can naturally heal and transform on their own with health. But that's that's the body element we try to be sensitive to. But let me jump to the top of the news. There's actually the rope that laid it, and in that rope uh is the summary of our story. Summary of our story, which is all the wounds, struggles, the pain. And here's the the biggest thing. They're all the messages and beliefs we've downloaded over the course of our life. Sure, some of that is some really good theology and some good things that we've learned about how to think through the sin. But I think what we don't often evaluate in our stories, honestly, through the life I've lived, what are there, what are the true deep down things I've come to believe and also come to wrestle with? Uh and I feel like it's an eye-opening moment for guys when they're like, yeah, there's actually a lot of unresolved pain. There's some fear that I deal with, there's some some deep-rooted pain and hurt from my childhood. Um, I've always wrestled with this vulnerability, like you said earlier, of being an imposter or not enough. And I'm like, dude, that's the thing. That's the area that's the core part of this struggle. And that loop is just uh, let me use your words, Michael. You're not addicted to pornography, you're addicted to escaping. So when your your heart shows up and it's got these wounds, it's got these unresolved things, the loop is just a reinforcement of unresolved, unhealed junk, right? Hurt. And what you're what you're doing through pornography or any form of sexual acting out is trying to find a way to just escape and bypass that pain. And it just reinforces over and over. Last thing, real quick, that that ties these things two together is the knot itself. And I always explain the knot as shame. So the the thing that keeps you from engaging with that core part where the rope meets the loop, and to actually heal that pain and to uh address these things from your story and bring Jesus into these deeper parts of yourself is just shame. And shame looks like basically a whole different way of viewing life. Like I'm the worst, I'm never gonna get over this. Uh, God's constantly mad and disappointed. I gotta work my way back to Him. All these false ways of thinking and feeling. And it just robs us of our ability to step forward in honesty and in safety and say, I'm hurting, I need help. Uh, please come with me on this journey. Um just to reinforce what we said earlier, I think the number one thing we see from guys, and especially pastors, is they want to do it alone. They want to figure out a solution in isolation, and it never works. Never works. So, just in summary, too, I think of the loop as a body thing. I think of the rope that laid it as a mind, a lot of beliefs that need to be addressed. And I think of that knot as a heart thing. And it body, mind, and heart, I think, or emotions, your physicality, and your cognition all need to be addressed in the healing process.

SPEAKER_00 22:12

Yeah, well said. I love that. Um Yeah, we we've we've done a lot of work with that uh that news concept, and it's so helpful for guys to see that all of those pieces line up, and it's like light bulbs go off and they go, oh, okay, now I get it. So um to carry that forward, how do we get out of the loop? How do we get what's the solution? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Step one, if we work with guys, um is what I well let me speak for myself. I know we have some uh slightly different, nuanced variations. I try to give guys tools and ways that they can actually find some space from that constant falling in the loop. So we use a what's called a recovery action plan, uh, which actually is a few different tools wrapped up into one. Uh, but guys can find some space from that, that they don't constantly have to be this animal that's just driven by their desires, but we can find some some space, right? Uh from the struggle, kind of make a barrier a little bit. And once guys are feeling that space again, and and actually I use that word feeling intentionally, once they can kind of re-engage with their emotions, that's where the real work can be done.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

Uh, and what we're trying to do is say your body and your mind and your heart has been so used to living in a numbed out state that let's try to get you to a spot where you can feel again because your heart needs to speak. And we want to explore that with right in in a time sensitive and a safe way, we want to explore some of those deep things. So that's why after I kind of give guys some practical tools to build space, then we say, hey, let's explore your story on deeper levels. Let's kind of talk through some of this. What how do you uh kind of navigate through those initial parts of the healing work?

SPEAKER_00 24:16

Yeah, you said you said safe place, and I think that I don't think that can be overstated. And the reason that that's true is for all the things we said at the beginning of our when we started talking, is that for pastors, a lot of times there doesn't, they don't feel like there is a safe place near them. There's nobody in their community and their network that they feel like they can truly trust with all of those parts of themselves. So one of the things that we love doing for pastors and people in ministry is showing up and being that safe place, this confidential place where you can come, show up, be with us, and really just sort of drop the guard, relax your shoulders and just let it all out. And what you're gonna get from us is grace and mercy, but we're also gonna give you some like, well, now what? Because we we understand that like there is a uh a pathway, if you will, like a map, like a trajectory that we move through as we're working with your work, we're figuring out where the pain is, how that pressurizes life, and then what's the pattern, then how do we establish a path forward? And all of this happens uh in a relational context. Like, you know, if if what uh porn and shame do is drive us toward isolation and being alone and dealing with it alone, the way out is really the way that God intended for us in our life in Christ, which is through relationships, right? When we come to faith in Christ, God doesn't hand you a Bible or somebody doesn't hand you a Bible and send you up into the mountains in a cabin and go, okay, enjoy a life of solitude, see you in 80 years. You get the church, you get the body of Christ. It's a people group, it's a set of relationships where you can show up and tell the truth about yourself. Now, I know that every relationship, just because somebody shows up to your church and says they're a Christian, doesn't immediately make them a safe person for you to confide in. So we we get that, which is why we've done a lot of work in our own stories and in a lot of training and how we can show up and love pastors well wherever they're at, um, so that they can get the help that they actually need. Because if at any point there's a lot of um there's too much fear, there's too much shame, it's a really, really, really hard mountain to overcome. And you, I mean, we say it all the time if you've ever listened to any of our podcasts, you can't do this alone. So that's what we try to um let people in on. Like we're here to do this work with you. You're not alone, and uh there is hope, there's a path forward, and we're gonna we're gonna walk you through there. So um for those of you guys who have I'm sorry. No, go ahead. I was just gonna say, as one of my mentors always says, uh, we're wounded in relationship, but we're also healed in relationship.

SPEAKER_01 26:44

Yeah, yeah, we're both getting excited because this is a part of this that we're so passionate about. I was just gonna reference what you said actually in the Common Good article, Michael, your analogy of that beautiful story of Peter coming on the water, walking on water to to meet Jesus where he was, or or really to answer and respond to his invitation, right? Uh that's what we're saying here is Jesus isn't calling, Jesus is calling you to get out of the boat. And man, that's a scary thing. Like you talk about it demanding absolute trust. Like, Jesus, is this gonna be okay? Like, are you gonna meet me here if I fall? Are the waves and the storm can totally overwhelm me? Am I gonna, and let's be real for pastors, am I gonna be disqualified? Am I gonna be shamed? Am I gonna be rejected? Am I gonna go through you name it? And sometimes it's just more comfortable, as miserable as it is, it's just more comfortable to stay in the boat. Like, I'll manage the storm, like I'll just hold on tighter, I'll go to a different part, and I'll I promise I'll get through this. And that's not the way, you know. Uh the truth is often guys who stay in the boat, they go down with the storm. And so when Jesus calls you to come and face it, right? To step into it, what we're really talking about, like Michael said, is having the taking the risk to be absolutely honest in relationship. Uh Michael, what I actually wanted to tie in, we didn't necessarily plan to do this, but um, I believe actually we are launching a check-in group.

SPEAKER_00 28:25

Yeah. And those are gonna be those are gonna be opening up in August. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:30

Yeah. Can you give us a elevator pitch of a kind of what that might look like and how it might be a good tool for maybe pastors who are like, you know what? I just don't feel like I can just like pull some people here and start being absolutely uh raw and open.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Yeah. Yeah, that's it. I mean, that's the point. It's putting you in a space with other pastors or leaders who are like you that are also dealing with this, that want to quit porn. And so one of the ways that we see that as we heal relationally is putting you in relationship with other people who are also wanting to heal in that capacity, too. So it's a check-in group, it's guided by you and I, you or I. Uh we'll be it will keep them small, five people, I think, at the most. But it's just a safe place for you to show up and just tell the truth about yourself. And really, it's answering the question over and over again that God asks Adam in the garden in chapter three, um, not what did you do, but where are you? We're showing up and we're telling the truth about ourselves. We're saying, here I am. It's a posture of surrendering to um to God and to um you know who who we're trying to become in Christ.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

So huge. Uh that initial step of honesty and connecting with others for vulnerability. Um you and I have been so benefited by a couple key individuals in our story that provided that safe place for us. But it wasn't just a like, hey, you can just dump it here, but it's also the I'm gonna walk with you, like I'm gonna give you some direction, encouragement, there is a path forward. It's not just dumping every time or like confession and repeat. So that's that's what we're passionate about, too, is actually helping pastors leaders say we we the deepest thing we want is your vulnerability and your honesty here, and let us encourage you on what some next steps might be. Um as we're just wrapping wrapping up this this episode too. Uh I guess maybe Michael talk to the the pastor listening who sure you're saying, okay, I know honesty is a step too, but uh can you speak to the one who just feels kind of like hopeless, who feels just stuck, uh that shame is actually taking its toll and saying, Man, I'm I don't know if I'll ever get over this.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

Yeah, uh a lot of what we experience in that place is we feel really unseen, which is one of the reasons we believe that we're the only one struggling with this. Because there's nobody else, frankly, because nobody else is talking about it. And when nobody else talks about it, we believe that nobody else is struggling and dealing with it. So here's the beautiful thing that I want to say is that God knows. Not like a shameful God knows what you're doing, but in a in a in a hopeful, encouraging, hey, God knows He knows you deeply and He loves you deeply, and He has not left you, right? The guarantee of that is that the Spirit of Christ dwells in you richly. And the same Spirit of Christ that's at work in me is the same one that's at work in you, and that God is always inviting you to come out of hiding, just like in Genesis 3. Like, that's God's posture toward us. Where are you? At once, once my children would come running to me when they heard me walking in the garden, and now they're hiding. Where are you?

SPEAKER_01 31:48

What you're reminding me, Michael, is the good news of the incarnation. And what I mean by that is that Jesus' very heart is meeting the sinner in their mess. Um and and I think that that's obviously most declared in the fact that he became a human being and lived among us, among our stuff, and was not ashamed of or uh repelled to the extent of saying, I well, I need you to clean up first. And so what we see over and over again uh and also also declared through the his parable of the prodigal son is Jesus runs towards us in our mess and our mixed motives and our not or lack of fully formed repentance, he he runs to us to meet us, to embrace us, to say, let's walk in this together. And that's why we always say too, what what Jesus is after here is connection, not perfection. So I as you think through what is my next step, I think the first primary step, like what you're saying, Michael, is uh let's stand in the truth of grace, which yes, this struggle is sinful, yes, it's serious, and we're serious about sin. And uh I believe in a God that declares his grace, his grace is greater than our sin. Yeah, and that yeah, he has embodied himself in such a way that he meets us in our mess, uh, so that we can walk with him on the journey of healing and restoration.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, yeah, that's beautiful. So if that's you and you're like, okay, what do I do? Where do I start? This is where this is where you start. Um go to rscy.com backslash common good, and that page we we built for you. So you can go there, you can look at see what um getting help looks like, um, reaching out to us. We we offer ourselves to anybody that just wants to chat just for a short, quick phone call, just to sort of hear where you're at, what you got going on, and and how we can help. And we we say all the time, even if we're not the right fit to help, we'll happily point you in the direction of somebody that that can. And again, that's a free call. We don't want anything from that. Like that's just a way that we can show up and love you and care for you well. So um, again, that's rscy.com backslash common good. And if you are curious about you know your own story and your own habit and what's going on day in and day out, and what some of the struggles that you might be facing are in more detail, we built a free assessment called the Pressure Assessor, and it just gives you a clear picture of what's going on day to day in terms of how you handle the stress and pressure across four different categories, uh, especially as it pertains to um pornography and sexual unwanted sexual behavior, um, resilience, stability, adaptability, and tolerance in how you're doing those four categories. Um, and again, you can find that at rscky.com backslash pressure. And beyond that, yeah, like I said, we'd we'd love to chat. You can hit us up on the website, you can hit us up on Instagram at MikeCamber with a K or at Nick W Buddha. Nick or I would be delighted to hear from you and talk to you. And uh, man, if nothing else, just pray for you and love you during this season.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

Michael, I feel prompted to do something actually I don't think we've ever done an episode before, uh, but just to stop in the episode and pray over the listeners. Do you mind if I just do a quick prayer uh as we close out? Close out, yeah. Um, pray for those. Yeah. Uh Lord Jesus, thank you for your grace uh that is freely offered to us. Uh, thank you for the redemption that Michael and I have experienced because of your pursuit and your power working within us. Thank you for the people that you've brought into our life to uh walk with in the midst of the storm as we connect with you, as we trust you, as we receive from you. Lord, I pray for those who are listening. Uh I pray for the pastors, the leaders who are listening who just feel the weight of the boat and are feeling this prompting, this invitation from you to step out, to speak in honesty and to maybe just get connected. Uh, Lord, I pray for others who are listening who are being prompted uh in other ways to to finally maybe just come into the light uh and talk about this struggle. Lord, I pray that you would meet them in that space in a way that they could feel and that they would be energized, uh, they would have some confidence, knowing that you are for them and that you will be with them. Lord, we thank you again for this conversation. We pray this in your name. Amen.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Hey, thanks for joining us today. If you found this helpful, do us a huge favor and subscribe on YouTube or your favorite podcast app. Or better yet, send this to someone who needs encouragement.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

For more tools, resources, and information about our coaching, check out rsdky.com. Keep showing up. Yeah, we'll catch you next time.