Human Connection in a Remote World (With Katmai)

Feeling strangely drained after a “productive” day? We dig into efficiency burnout—the modern fatigue that creeps in when work is optimized but human presence is missing—and follow Brian Curee of Killer Bee Marketing as he rethinks remote culture from the ground up. The turning point comes with a deceptively simple question from Katmai’s team: do we start together or start apart? That single shift reframes remote work from a string of calendar invites to a shared place where people exist before they interact.

We walk through Brian’s three-year detour into VR—immersive but impractical for daily work—and the chance meeting that introduced him to Katmai’s browser-based 3D office. No headsets. Live video bubbles. Spatial audio. A lobby doorbell that signals presence without demanding attention. Instead of a grid of faces, you get a workplace with hallways, desks, and rooms that invite natural collisions. When KBM hosted a virtual open house, they traded slide decks for a scavenger hunt and a tongue-in-cheek “controlled chaos” tutorial featuring the electric slide—an instant icebreaker that turned strangers into collaborators.

The data seals the case. Typical calls on legacy platforms stretch to 45–54 minutes; Katmai interactions average 14.2 minutes. Zoom-era meetings are only 37% spontaneous; Katmai clocks 90%, shifting problem-solving from next Tuesday to right now. Perhaps most striking: users report spending just 5.8% of their week in meetings while remaining present in the shared space, reclaiming time and energy without sacrificing connection. KBM has since expanded its virtual office into a multi-company hub with a welcoming lobby, eight dedicated offices, a Buzz Room for brainstorms, a theater for shared learning, and a podcast studio—architecture that choreographs collaboration.

Our takeaway is clear: stop arguing location and start designing connection. If your tools only create meetings, you may be building an efficient, lonely company. Seek platforms that engineer collisions, lower the social cost of asking for help, and let teams start together. If this resonated, follow the show, share it with a teammate who’s feeling the grind, and leave a quick review to help more people find conversations that put presence back at the heart of remote work.

Transcript

Efficiency Burnout & Friction

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Uh, you know, there is a very specific kind of exhaustion that I feel like just didn't exist a decade ago.

SPEAKER_00 0:39

Oh, I know exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_01 0:40

It's not physical tiredness. I mean, you haven't been digging ditches all day.

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Right.

SPEAKER_01 0:44

It's not even mental fatigue from solving incredibly complex math problems. It's well, it's what I call efficiency burnout.

SPEAKER_00 0:52

Efficiency burnout. Yeah, that is a perfect way to describe it. It's that feeling of five o'clock where you've been, you know, incredibly productive on paper.

SPEAKER_01 0:59

But you feel completely empty.

SPEAKER_00 1:01

Exactly. Completely drained.

SPEAKER_01 1:03

We've optimized the logistics of work so perfectly for remote teams. We send files instantly. We hop on a video call with anyone on the planet in three seconds. Slack is pinging us constantly.

The Presence Gap

SPEAKER_00 1:15

We stripped away all the friction.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Right. We took away the friction. But let's be honest, doesn't it feel like we lost something vital when we did that?

SPEAKER_00 1:22

We absolutely did. Because friction is actually where the humanity hides. It's the messy, inefficient parts of a workday that make us feel genuinely connected to other people.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Aaron Powell We solved the work part of remote work, but we broke the people part. And honestly, that is the core mission of today's deep dive.

SPEAKER_00 1:42

It's such a great topic.

SPEAKER_01 1:43

We are gonna look at a fascinating case study that really challenges how we think about this trade-off. We have some incredible source material today, including some eye-opening data, and we're gonna lean heavily into the story of Brian Curie.

SPEAKER_00 1:56

Brian is the CEO of Killer B Marketing or KBM.

VR Trials And Hardware Friction

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Right. And his story is so relatable because his team has always been remote.

SPEAKER_00 2:05

Always remote.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Always. And they were good at it. Productivity was great, but Brian was struggling with this nagging feeling that something was missing by not having a physical office.

SPEAKER_00 2:15

He realized it was presence. That's what was missing.

SPEAKER_01 2:17

Yes, presence. He missed those water cooler conversations, those totally natural, hey, how are you moments that just happen organically when you share a physical space.

SPEAKER_00 2:26

You can't schedule those. You can't put a calendar invite for a spontaneous hello.

SPEAKER_01 2:31

Exactly. So Brian, in his search to create this type of work environment remotely, he ended up doing three solid years of research and hands-on experience in the VR space.

SPEAKER_00 2:43

Three years is a long time in tech.

SPEAKER_01 2:44

It is. He was using platforms like MetaHorizon Worlds and Horizon Workrooms.

Meeting Katmai: Do We Start Together or Apart

SPEAKER_00 2:49

And he actually found some success there, right? The immersive connection was apparently like nothing Brian had experienced before.

SPEAKER_01 2:56

He said it really felt like they were present together in the room.

SPEAKER_00 3:00

But and there's always but with early tech, the equipment was the barrier.

SPEAKER_01 3:04

Right. You just can't expect a team of marketers to sit with a heavy plastic brick strapped to their faces for eight hours a day. It's hot, it's heavy, it's isolating from your actual physical room.

SPEAKER_00 3:14

You can't even drink your coffee easily.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Exactly. So the feeling of presence was there, but the hardware made it impossible for daily work.

SPEAKER_00 3:20

Aaron Ross Powell Which brings us to the chance encounter that kind of changed everything.

SPEAKER_01 3:24

I love this part of the story. So picture this. Brian is having a drink with his wife Shauna at a local distillery.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Just a normal night out.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Totally normal. And he ends up meeting this guy, Daniel Koch. Now, Daniel's actually about to catch a flight to New York.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

He's on his way out.

SPEAKER_01 3:38

Yeah. But Brian says hi and asks the classic networking question: what do you do?

SPEAKER_00 3:43

As you do.

SPEAKER_01 3:43

Right. And Daniel mentions he is the CPO at a tech company called Katmai. And Daniel describes their service as an immersive video 3D experience.

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Now, if I hear immersive video 3D experience, you reel your eyes. A little bit, yeah. Yeah. I think great, another tool I have to learn.

SPEAKER_01 4:00

But Brian wasn't skeptical. He wasn't hesitant. He was just genuinely curious. He did ask himself a couple of critical questions though.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

Which were?

SPEAKER_01 4:09

He wondered, do we really need another video meeting platform?

SPEAKER_00 4:13

A fair question. We are drowning in platforms.

SPEAKER_01 4:16

And the second question, is it actually possible to have an immersive experience without having to wear a VR headset?

SPEAKER_00 4:23

Because that was his big roadblock before.

SPEAKER_01 4:25

Exactly. So he decides to look into Katmai. And this conversation with Daniel Kosh led to a specific philosophical question that's going to be the focus for this entire deep dive.

SPEAKER_00 4:34

Oh, this is the crux of it all.

Inside Katmai 3D Office

SPEAKER_01 4:36

It really is. Daniel asked, do we start together or do we start apart?

SPEAKER_00 4:41

Let's unpack that. Do we start together or do we start apart?

SPEAKER_01 4:44

Because it changes the entire paradigm of remote work. Think about how you and I normally do a video call.

SPEAKER_00 4:49

Well, I'm sitting alone in my office, I click a link in my calendar.

SPEAKER_01 4:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 4:53

And then I stare at my own face in a waiting room until you let me in.

SPEAKER_01 4:57

You start apart. You are in isolation, and then suddenly, bam, you are thrust into a grid of faces, and the meeting has officially begun. It's jarring.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

It's zero to sixty in a second.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

But if you start together like in a physical office or in Catmai, you enter a shared space first. You exist in an environment before any interaction actually takes place.

SPEAKER_00 5:19

You share a context.

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Exactly. You might see someone working at their desk, you might wave, or you might just keep walking to your own desk. But you are sharing a reality.

SPEAKER_00 5:27

So what does Katmai actually look like for the user? Because I know you've looked into Brian's first experiences with the platform.

SPEAKER_01 5:34

Yeah. It's essentially a 3D environment right in your browser, no headsets, you see desks, hallways, a lobby. But instead of a cartoon avatar.

SPEAKER_00 5:43

You always feel a bit silly to me.

SPEAKER_01 5:45

Totally. Instead of that, your avatar is just your live video feed inside a little frame.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Oh, interesting. So it's you, your actual face m navigating this 3D office.

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Yeah. And it uses spatial audio. So if you walk your little video frame over to my desk, we can hear each other. If you walk away, my voice fades out.

KBM’s Virtual Open House & Electric Slide

SPEAKER_00 6:02

That mimics reality so well.

SPEAKER_01 6:04

It really does. And there's this one specific feature Brian fell in love with that perfectly illustrates starting together, the doorbell feature.

SPEAKER_00 6:10

The ding-dong.

SPEAKER_01 6:12

The ding-dong. When someone enters the virtual lobby, a doorbell rings for everyone in the space.

SPEAKER_00 6:17

Aaron Powell It's such a small detail, but psychologically it's huge. Because on Slack, if you want to chat, you have to type, hey, got a sec. It demands an answer.

SPEAKER_01 6:25

It's an interruption. But a doorbell just announces, hey, someone has arrived. You don't have to stop what you're doing. It allows for natural, spontaneous drop-ins.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

So Brian tests this out. He loves it. But how does he roll it out to the rest of the world?

SPEAKER_01 6:39

He goes big. In December 2025, KBM hosted a virtual open office debut.

SPEAKER_00 6:45

An open house.

SPEAKER_01 6:45

Yeah. And it wasn't just his team, they had multiple business owners, clients, and even the founder of Catmai showed up.

SPEAKER_00 6:51

Eric Bront.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yes, Eric was there. And they all gathered together in the theater hall space inside Catmai.

SPEAKER_00 6:57

Okay, a virtual theater hall.

SPEAKER_01 6:59

Where Brian shared his vision for how KBM plans to use the platform. But he didn't just give a boring lecture. He wanted them to feel the space. So he organized a virtual scavenger hunt.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

A scavenger hunt in a browser-based 3D office? That's pretty clever. It forces you to learn the controls.

SPEAKER_01 7:16

Exactly. And the best part was this interactive tutorial that Brian called controlled chaos.

SPEAKER_00 7:22

Controlled chaos. I like that.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

It was a funny pun for learning how to navigate this new immersive 3D space. Do you want to know what they did?

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Tell me.

SPEAKER_01 7:31

He had everyone do the electric slide.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

Wait, the line dance.

The Killer Bee Business Hub

SPEAKER_01 7:34

Yes. The electric slide. He had all these serious business professionals, clients, tech founders moving their little video bubbles to the left, to the right, sliding backwards.

SPEAKER_00 7:45

It is hilarious.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

It was brilliant. Because you can't be stiff and formal when you're trying to line dance as a floating video screen. It broke the ice completely.

SPEAKER_00 7:54

It builds that shared context we were just talking about.

SPEAKER_01 7:56

Exactly. And the feedback was unanimous. Everyone agreed that they had never experienced anything remotely like this on a Zoom call.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Because on a Zoom call, you were just waiting your turn to speak. In this space, you were actually participating in an event.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

It felt like a destination. And after that virtual open house, Brian quickly realized there's something way more significant here than just a virtual office for his own internal team.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

He saw a bigger opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Right. So he reached back out to Eric and Daniel about completely transforming KBM's space from just a private office into a virtual business hub.

SPEAKER_00 8:33

A hub, so inviting other companies in.

SPEAKER_01 8:35

Exactly. And this transformation to the business hub just launched recently in mid-February 2026.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

Wow. So this is brand new.

SPEAKER_01 8:44

Very new. So let's talk about what the KBM space has actually become today.

SPEAKER_00 8:49

Okay, paint a picture for me. If I log in right now, what am I seeing?

The Data (Katmai vs Zoom)

SPEAKER_01 8:53

You walk into a welcoming lobby, and there is a couch area specifically for those relaxed, unstructured conversations.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

The water cooler moments.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Exactly. Then you have eight dedicated office spaces. And these feature different businesses. It's essentially a digital co-working space.

SPEAKER_00 9:11

That's incredible. So you could literally walk down the virtual hall and ask a totally different company a question.

SPEAKER_01 9:16

Yes. They also have the Buzz Room, which is their space for brainstorms and workshops.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Good name for a killer bee marketing room.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

They stayed on brand, they kept the theater hall for shared learning events, and of course they added a podcast studio.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

Naturally.

SPEAKER_01 9:29

But the architecture isn't even the most impressive part. The really mind-blowing part of this deep dive is the data.

SPEAKER_00 9:36

Let's get into the numbers because I know the source material provided some really stark comparisons between Catmai and the old way of doing things.

SPEAKER_01 9:45

The stats are incredible. And just for our listeners, any Zoom versus Catmai stats we mentioned here come directly from Catmai's research.

SPEAKER_00 9:53

Right. So let's start with meeting length. If you look at the average scheduled video call on traditional platforms, it usually runs about 45 to 54 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 10:02

Which makes sense. Outlook and Google Calendar default to 30 or 60 minute blocks.

SPEAKER_00 10:06

And work expands to fill the time you give it.

SPEAKER_01 10:09

But what is the average on Catmai?

SPEAKER_00 10:11

It's 14.2 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 10:12

14 minutes? That's basically a coffee break.

SPEAKER_00 10:15

It's a massive difference. And it happens because the conversations flow faster. When you don't have to schedule a meeting, it becomes a walk-in chat. You don't have to spend the first 10 minutes doing the awkward, hey, can you hear me? How was your weekend routine?

SPEAKER_01 10:28

Right, because you already share the context. You start together.

SPEAKER_00 10:31

Exactly. You just walk up, ask your question, get the answer, and walk away. 14.2 minutes.

SPEAKER_01 10:36

That directly ties into the next stat about spontaneity.

SPEAKER_00 10:39

This one is huge. Zoom meetings, according to the data, are only 37% spontaneous.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Which honestly feels a little high to me. Most of my rate that's locked into calendar invites days in advance.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

Same here. But on KatMai, meetings are 90% spontaneous.

SPEAKER_01 10:57

90%.

SPEAKER_00 10:58

90%. Almost all of their interactions happen naturally just by walking up to someone.

SPEAKER_01 11:02

That represents a complete shift in company culture. It means you aren't waiting until next Tuesday at 3 p.m. to solve a problem. You just walk over and solve it right now.

SPEAKER_00 11:12

It eliminates so much bottlenecking.

SPEAKER_01 11:14

And it also eliminates the fatigue. Because let's talk about the exhaustion we mentioned at the start of the show.

SPEAKER_00 11:20

The efficiency burnout.

SPEAKER_01 11:21

Right. On Zoom, the data shows that people spend about 42.3% of a 40-hour work week just sitting in video meetings.

SPEAKER_00 11:29

Nearly half your week just staring at a camera.

Reclaiming Your Time & Human Connection

SPEAKER_01 11:32

It's performative. You have to look engaged, nod at the right times, make sure your lighting is okay. It drains you.

SPEAKER_00 11:39

But on Catmai, users only spend 5.8% of their week in meetings.

SPEAKER_01 11:43

Wait, hold on. Only 5.8%, but they are logged into the 3D office all day, right?

SPEAKER_00 11:48

They're in the space all day.

SPEAKER_01 11:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 11:50

But they aren't in a meeting all day.

SPEAKER_01 11:51

Oh, I see.

SPEAKER_00 11:52

That's the crucial difference. The key stat here is that a Catmai workweek is 94.2% free from video meetings.

SPEAKER_01 12:00

Compare that to 57.7% for Zoom users. That is a staggering amount of time given back to the employee.

SPEAKER_00 12:07

It supports Brian's whole claim. This isn't about adding yet another tool to micromanage people. It's about reclaiming your time and reclaiming human connection.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

You are working independently, but you are not alone. You have presence without the performance of a meeting.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

It's brilliant. It really proves the power of Daniel Cosh's concept. Starting together completely changes how you interact.

Designing Collisions

SPEAKER_01 12:28

So as we look at where Brian is taking Killer Bee Marketing now with this business hub, what do you think the big takeaway is for our listener?

SPEAKER_00 12:35

I think the philosophy Brian arrived at is the key. The future isn't about arguing over fully remote versus fully in-person.

SPEAKER_01 12:42

Right. Those are just geographical labels.

SPEAKER_00 12:44

Exactly. The future is about being intentional. It's about choosing connection over location.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Choosing connection over location. I really like that. It reframes the whole remote work debate. It doesn't matter where you are sitting in the physical world, it matters how you are existing in the digital world with your team.

SPEAKER_00 13:00

Yeah. And I think that leaves us with a really provocative thought to end on today. Something for you listening to mull over when you go back to work tomorrow.

SPEAKER_01 13:08

Oh, I love a good takeaway. What is it?

SPEAKER_00 13:09

Think about the software your company uses every day. Are those tools designing meetings or are they designing collisions?

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Designing collisions.

Try Katmai for FREE

SPEAKER_00 13:18

Right. Because efficiency tools are great for scheduling blocks of time. But real innovation, real culture that happens in the collisions. The accidental bump-ins, the electric slide moments.

SPEAKER_01 13:30

If your tech stack is only designing meetings, you might be building a highly efficient, incredibly lonely company.

SPEAKER_00 13:36

Exactly. Are we building efficiency at the cost of the spark that happens when you just walk past someone and say hello?

SPEAKER_01 13:42

That is a fascinating way to look at it. You really can't schedule a breakthrough idea. You have to create the environment where it can spontaneously happen.

SPEAKER_00 13:50

And it seems like CatMai is building that environment.

SPEAKER_01 13:53

Well, the good news is you don't have to just take our word for it. You can actually try the platform yourself.

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Yeah, you can try Katmai for free.

SPEAKER_01 13:59

Just visit catmitech.com.

SPEAKER_00 14:02

And if you do check it out, let them know you heard about CatMai from Killer Bee Marketing.

SPEAKER_01 14:06

For sure. Brian and his team are doing some really groundbreaking stuff over there with the Business Hub, and it's awesome to see a company so dedicated to fixing the human side of remote work.

SPEAKER_00 14:16

It really is.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

Well, thank you so much for joining me on this one. This was a fantastic deep dive.

SPEAKER_00 14:21

Always a pleasure.

SPEAKER_01 14:22

And to everyone listening, thank you for hanging out with us. Remember to focus on the connection, not just the location. We will catch you on the next deep dive.