ARROW'S ECHO KELLUM TALKS HOLLYWOOD, ACTING, AND A CREATIVE LIFE

We trace Echo Kellum’s path from Chicago theater kid to network TV mainstay and Groundlings main company member, unpacking the reps, routines, and recalibrations that made the career possible. We talk tests, pilots, improv breakthroughs, and why making your own work is the new default.

Echo opens up about bullying, a life‑shifting hip‑hop summer, and stepping into (and out of) organized religion when a beard became a line in the sand. That tension—between identity and approval—shaped the grit he’d need later.

Transcript

Meet Echo Kellum

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hey everyone, how's it going? My name is Nate Kaywood. I'm a Los Angeles-based cinematographer, and this is Film Shit, the podcast where I sit down with a working professional in the TV and film industry. I asked them how they got to where they are, what exactly they do, and what the future of the biz looks like. Today I am incredibly excited to have our first guest of all time. A very dear friend of mine, a writer, a director, an actor, a musician, a groundling. Ladies and gentlemen, Echo Kellum. That's me. It's you. Hello, sir. Hey. Thank you so much for joining us today.

SPEAKER_04 0:38

Thank you so much for having me. It is my absolute pleasure to be here. Oh man. Um very excited that people get to get a little slice into the brain of Nate Kwood and the brilliance that exudes from within. You are so lucky to get to uh pick this person's brain and get to have this insight. So buckle up.

SPEAKER_02 0:56

Oh, you're very kind, but we're excited to have we're talking to you today. Yeah, I don't really have much to offer people.

SPEAKER_04 1:01

I don't have much, but we'll see what happens. No, we're gonna have a lot.

SPEAKER_02 1:05

Hopefully, we'll have some fun today. Yeah. Okay, so you are you let's introduce how the people would know you. So you were first on a network TV show called Ben and Kate.

SPEAKER_04 1:15

Did you say I was forced? No, no, no. You were first. Yeah, I was first, yes, and forced. You were forced to forced to take that job. Yeah. Because I signed a contract. No, yeah. My uh first foray into TV was actually an episode of Hot in Cleveland.

SPEAKER_02 1:29

Oh, I remember that.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Who was cast by the same people who cast Ben and Kate? So basically, like I was already like, they were already gonna test me for Ben and Kate. I think they already knew I was like their favorite. Right. So then they were like, hey, there's also this role on Hot in Cleveland, and that was so fun. Because that was like my first actual TV gig. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:44

Okay, hot in Cleveland, and then you were on Ben and Kate, and then you were on a TV show called Sean Saves the World for a little while. And then you were on how many seasons of Era? Four. You were on four seasons of Era.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

I was in five, but like I think four is more like a regular, very like much a regular. Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Okay, and then after that you were on a TV show called Grand Crew. Yes, that is correct. And during that time you had also done a bunch of animation stuff, yeah. Sketch animated sort of stuff.

SPEAKER_04 2:10

Some features and all that stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 2:11

But these, yeah, yeah, exactly. Are you there, God? It's me, Margaret. It was a film that you were in as an actor. Of course. Um, yeah, yeah. Yeah, so you like so this this is this is how you will know this man. Yes. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_04 2:24

But before we get too far, and also you might know me from um a little McDonald's commercial I did about 14 years ago. Yeah, yeah. It was Chicken McBites.

SPEAKER_02 2:33

Chicken McBites, which is a product that no longer exists.

SPEAKER_04 2:36

It doesn't exist because they said I tank the product with my acting in the commercials. Is that what they said?

SPEAKER_02 2:41

So the agency called you up and they said you were so bad we're gonna tank this

Early TV Breaks And Commercials

SPEAKER_02 2:45

entire product.

SPEAKER_04 2:45

That's not what they said, but as an actor, I take responsibility if anything doesn't go right. So I put that burden on myself, never got a call. I called, I called that agency multiple.

SPEAKER_03 2:55

Did they answer?

SPEAKER_04 2:56

I did not know if it was the correct answer, yeah. Or the correct phone number, but so they didn't answer. Right. But I just dialed a number at random, was like, this might be them. Right. Who knows?

SPEAKER_02 3:06

So, well, it sounds like that's a really healthy approach to life as an actor. So I'm very excited for you. Sounds like it's probably super stable. Thank you, thank you. Um, but before we actually get to uh I just wanted to introduce people so that they could kind of understand what it was they were talking about, who the person is. But I think most importantly, like I do want to create an environment in the podcast where people can like look at trajectories and understand that nobody's path is the same and that no matter where you're from or what your um upbringing is or whether or not your mom or dad are in this business or not, like you it is possible to make dreams come true.

SPEAKER_04 3:39

Yeah, absolutely. It does help if your mom and dad are in the business. If you're a Neppo baby, oh man, it it really helps. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:46

And you're speaking from personal experience.

SPEAKER_04 3:48

No, no, I I had no help. I would say, yeah, I I'll basically say, like, yeah, Sam Jackson's my my uncle. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it got me nowhere. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

So you have to be honest. Well, the problem is that you gotta go by uh Echo Jackson. No, and I thought of that.

SPEAKER_04 4:04

I thought of that, but that was taken. That was actually already taken at the SAG after. SAG already had I was forced, yeah. To go by your birthday. Oh, it's so annoying. I'm so sorry.

SPEAKER_02 4:14

Uh you're originally from you hailed from Chicago.

SPEAKER_04 4:16

I hailed from Chicago, and hail does come to Chicago sometimes. But yes, I'm from Chicago, Illinois, born and raised, lived there for the first 25, 26 years of my life, and I love Chicago, it's such a great city. And then I moved out to LA when I was 27, 26. Uh-huh. And I've been here ever since.

SPEAKER_02 4:36

And when you were in Chicago, okay, so when you uh are you from a family of artists? Like people like where did you like look at your family and be like, oh, arts is a way of life. I can do that.

SPEAKER_04 4:47

I don't know if it was like art is life vibes, but definitely artists. My sister was a singer, my brother was a rapper. Uh everyone like had talent in my family. Um, my father was actually, I mean, now that you say it, I guess my family was artists. My father was literally a painter.

SPEAKER_03 5:03

Uh so art was life for us.

SPEAKER_04 5:07

Yes, art was life. Uh uh, what an epiphany to find out in this moment in my life that art was life growing up. Uh, but so yeah, I did have a family of artists and creatives who, you know, like to create and write and do different things. I actually got into acting watching my siblings when I was like three, watching them do um plays at the Soft Shore Culture Center in Chicago. They got like government funding, and Craig Robinson's mom was like the piano instructor. And so watching them when I was super early, I was like, ooh, this is what I want to do.

SPEAKER_02 5:37

Wow, that's incredible. Okay, so so you knew from an early age that you wanted to be an actor.

SPEAKER_04 5:41

Oh, since I was like three or four, I knew I was like that. This is what I want my path to be. I would do church plays, I would do all the plays in school. I looked up so much to Jim Carrey and Will Smith. Like, once I saw On Living Color, I was like, oh my God, I want to be a comedian, I want to be like a funny actor.

SPEAKER_02 5:56

And so yeah, I always did you do Jim Carrey a lot to other people?

SPEAKER_04 6:00

Oh my god, I did so many Jim Carrey. What was the Jim Carrey go to? Oh man, I would do like farmers. I don't even know if I remember exactly. And then I'm not telling you that something I can't that I can't do that. But when I was a little kid, I was locked in on impressions. So I would kill my Jim Carrey impressions, but then like, you know, I went to all black school, so they were like, Why are you doing the white, the white man's impressions? And I was like, I could do, I could do Wanda too. Like, so I would switch it up. But Jim Carrey, for some reason, I just thought he was so silly

Chicago Roots And Finding Acting Young

SPEAKER_04 6:30

and goofy and just so playful. So that that was really where um that really drew me in.

SPEAKER_02 6:35

I think he's silly. Yeah, I think he was certainly silly on the city. I don't know if you get it.

SPEAKER_04 6:38

It's a kind of a black thing, you know. Oh, okay. Yeah, yeah. Coffee.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Jim Carry is kind of a yeah, that would be a hilarious take. Jim Carrey's like kind of a piece for black people. Yeah, start on the living color. Yeah. No, okay. I did watch a lot of Jim Carrey impressions. He's universally just hilarious. Yeah, he's beloved. Yeah. Uh okay, so you started doing Jim Carrey impressions, and and then what happened?

SPEAKER_04 6:59

And then I just started like uh, like I said, doing a lot of school plays, a lot of like elementary or like middle. Okay. Well, see, and from where I'm from, we didn't have a middle school. So it was like elementary was K through A and then high school.

SPEAKER_02 7:11

Oh wow, dang. So there's kindergartners in the hallway within the school.

SPEAKER_04 7:15

With eighth graders, yes. That's feels funny. And let me tell you, they would, those eighth graders would catch the kindergartners. And whoop up on them? They would they wouldn't that be funny if they did?

SPEAKER_02 7:26

You little five-year-old punk. I mean, I just I was like, man, dude, I just feel like sixth graders are like terrorists.

SPEAKER_04 7:32

They're like I think the eighth grader, like the sixth graders and the eighth graders were at war constantly, right? So that was a lot of turmoil going on between the upperclassmen. But I think the the K, the K's through twos, we have to deal with our own issues. Uh why does it sound like a gang? Like, so it was the K twos, we had to deal with this. Uh, but yeah, so we, you know, it so it was like sections. Eighth graders were rarely ever like what was the school called? Windle E. Green.

SPEAKER_02 7:56

Windle E. Green Windle E. Green.

SPEAKER_04 7:58

Shout out, shout out Wendell E.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

Green. Who was your South Side, Chicago, huh? What was your mascot?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

I don't know. Really? We didn't really have. I think we I don't know if we even had sports teams. I don't know. We were very poor.

SPEAKER_02 8:13

We didn't have sports elementary school either, but we were the Howling Timberwolves who just at least have t-shirts and stuff.

SPEAKER_04 8:18

I don't even remember what like the mountains that were green. I don't know what we were. Wow, welcome to eat green? What's green? Let us know. That was my boo. Best guess is something that was green. The mountains.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

What?

SPEAKER_04 8:31

Yeah. I don't know. I don't know if we have a team. Yeah. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 8:35

So you're doing plays.

SPEAKER_04 8:36

Um K through eight. You're doing plays. Yeah, and then when I was 13, my mom took me to this random audition. It was like a flyer at my school. And I joined this theater troupe called KRP2, which is still for kids or people too. This woman ran it.

SPEAKER_02 8:52

I'm sorry, kids are people. Kids are people too was the name of the agency. It sounds to me like it's also like, I'm telling you, like, hey, you better listen. Kids are people too.

SPEAKER_04 9:01

Yeah. Because I think a lot of people are have a lot of misconception about kids. Uh-huh. They think they're young. Well, they're not. Which I guess is accurate. Quantifiably they would they think they're selfish, which is also, I guess, probably pretty true. Uh, but they are people. Yeah. And some people are selfish and young. Yeah. And so are kids. And they're kids. And so fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 9:19

So you're working with so you're acting professionally?

SPEAKER_04 9:22

Yes. We would put on plays for thousands of kids. Like, so when I was in high school, I had to get like work permits to take time off to go do these plays and like have tutors and all that stuff like that. And you know, it was just incredible. She, you know, this person who ran the place was like an entrepreneur and was just like, you know, had these original plays that she would create that might might have been inspired by different things. And so she would put them on and we perform in front of thousands of kids. Like, and I did that basically from like 14 to about 17. Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 9:57

Okay, so yeah, so you're like a working actor getting paid in your teens. And so, like, you're like, hey, this is a way of life. This is the way of life.

SPEAKER_04 10:04

Unless you were naughty, unless you had to be talked to, then she would deduct pay based on your behavior. Of course, you were always making trouble. And of course, I was a silly, I was a silly goofball.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Wait, so were you like the uh were you like the class clown of the theater troupe?

SPEAKER_04 10:21

No, I wouldn't say I was the class clown, but I was definitely one of the sillier people in the theater troupe. I would say me and this guy, Jonathan Bonowski, were probably a tag team of silliness.

SPEAKER_02 10:32

What was your guys' like tag team go-to bit? Do you remember?

SPEAKER_04 10:36

I have no idea what our go-to bit was. I I really cannot even think of what our go-to bit would have been. It might have been like making fun of her or something like that. We might do like a bread and fruit was like low hanging fruit. And so she would deduct us if we were like bad kids, money, which I was like, I don't think that's fully legal. But we were also like, hey, we're getting paid to act, like what a dream.

SPEAKER_02 10:56

Yeah, as a teenager, you're like, you can't complain too much.

SPEAKER_04 10:58

I couldn't complain too much, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 10:59

Uh man, that's incredible. Okay, so you're doing pro plays, like you're you're you're a teenager, you're like the coolest kid in your high school. Is that what's at all? Oh man, not at all.

SPEAKER_04 11:11

Uh I was not the coolest kid.

SPEAKER_02 11:13

Wait, really? An actor?

SPEAKER_04 11:14

You know what's funny is like I became cooler as school progressed, but my first couple years were very tough. Very tough. A lot of bullying, a lot of just I was just going through it. Um, like they even in like what way?

SPEAKER_02 11:27

Like when you say you're going through it. Like, you know, like they were people physically hurting.

SPEAKER_04 11:31

Oh, yeah. I I physically got like punched or like beat up or stuff like that on occasion. But my my older brother was like kind of well known, and people were very scared of them. So that kind of kept some bullying at bay. Like if he had to come up to the school or something like that.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

Um your brother was really well known and was people were scared of him, is a sentence that requires investigation.

SPEAKER_04 11:52

It might. I mean, he was just well known, like in the neighborhood. They were just like, hey, you don't mess with, you know, his little brother, you know, like

Teen Theater, Bullying, And Hip‑Hop Identity

SPEAKER_04 12:00

that. Um, so but that didn't always work. That didn't always work, right? You know, because he wasn't like that much around. He was like living his own life and figuring out his own stuff. Um, he's like four years older than me. So, you know.

SPEAKER_02 12:13

Oh, okay. So it's like it's not like he was old.

SPEAKER_04 12:16

It was like, oh, it was like you imagine like my like 45-year-old brother. Hey, who mess with my little brother down here?

SPEAKER_02 12:22

I don't know why. I guess everyone lined up, you little hula guns. I like this older brother. Yeah, he's funny. Uh I don't know why. I guess I thought that he would have just been older, but yeah, like four that that's actually a reasonable age to be like, hey, don't mess with his brother. Because it's he's like enough out of the school that it's soon and soon enough that he's like, oh, he just left. But you gotta be careful because I remember him. Yeah. Yeah, that kind of yeah, that's interesting. Okay, so you were not the coolest kid in high school. Was it because you were doing acting stuff that you weren't that cool, or was it you were just a lame person?

SPEAKER_04 12:53

I was just a very lame person. Okay, I would say like I was like more into like anime and video games and things like that.

SPEAKER_02 13:00

So and these things retain truth to you to this day.

SPEAKER_04 13:03

To this day. Okay, wow. Still, still into these things, the hobbies.

SPEAKER_02 13:07

Yes, and so high school bullies are still all over your social media.

SPEAKER_04 13:10

Oh, oh, if I had a social media, they'd be all over it. They'd be and they were, and they were when I did have they were like, I found you. I was like, oh god. Oh, good heavens. You think you solved it now? Um and then they would call they call me Fabio. Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Hold on.

SPEAKER_04 13:25

Why why would they call it?

SPEAKER_02 13:27

Wasn't Fabio, isn't he like German?

SPEAKER_04 13:29

He was like, German attractive, you know, swole getting all the women, but at my school, this was a diss. Because he also, because he's a romance novel man, he was like kind of soft, you know. So it's like hilarious. Hey, what's up, Fabs? And then I think like my heart broke when like when girls start calling me Fabio was like, no, this can't be catching. Oh no, caught him on, especially like in my US history class, like, oh boy.

SPEAKER_02 13:53

Oh the teacher started calling you Fabio?

SPEAKER_04 13:56

No, wouldn't that be funny, though? Yeah, that'd be fun. He was like, hey, you little teachers, my my older brother, hey, you little rap scallion Fabio. Um that would have been fun, but no, the teacher didn't, but all the all the all the students started calling you. All the girls you wanted to make it with were calling you Fabio. Not necessarily, but like cute girls. And I was like, oh man, like dang, like why Sharita called me that. Um, but yeah, it was just, you know, I was but the thing, the thing was is like I wasn't scared to like scrap or fight, you know. Like I still have to stand up for myself. And you know, there was even like moments when I was a kid where like a bully would be messing with me, and then my brother kind of was like, oh man, there's this big brother, and then Ronnie would be like, fight, like go. Like, I'm go fight. I'm not about to fight or like I'm gonna put you into the fire. So like I still have to like fight my own battles a lot of times. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Which argumentatively is probably like a really good life lesson. Not that scrapping is ever the answer, teens. Yeah, but like, but the idea is that it's like that's probably a good learning lesson that your older brother was able to bestow on you. Which is like, I'm not gonna come save you.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

Yeah, you gotta fight your own battles.

SPEAKER_02 14:57

Yeah. Okay, so you're fighting battles in high school, people are whooping up on you, girls are calling you Fabio, um, but you are making money. I am making money as an actor.

SPEAKER_04 15:07

And then like, one of I think one of the things that saved me, that like changed my trajectory a little bit in high school, was that like I really had a summer where I had to go to my older older brother's house, not my younger brother. Yeah, the 40 year old brother. The 45 no, he was he was the 40-year-old now. Actually, I did have a brother who's older than my mom. We'll get into that later. Um I had to go to my older brother who's 10 years older than me, to his pla his apartment complex. Why am I saying it like this? But he lived in an apartment complex and I had to go stay with him for a summer. And I kind of like fell madly in love with hip-hop, and I kind of became like a hip-hop head after this summer, like after 15. I mean, he just had like so many like dope old CDs, like you know, uh a whole bunch of Tribe Call Quest and Mob Deep and like EPMD and Red Man and Method Man and like Wu Tang Clan, and like I just was the summer, I just was listening to every single album and just became obsessed with hip-hop. And like I started doing like graffiti and started trying to learn a break dance. Like, and so when I came back to school, I kind of like drifted to the group of like hip-hop heads. Right.

SPEAKER_02 16:13

So this was like a summer of change. It's like a summer of change, yeah. Like which which year?

SPEAKER_04 16:18

Uh this was like summer after sophomore year. Yeah, I feel like that's the software year of transition. Yeah, so I was like 15 going on 16.

SPEAKER_02 16:24

Yeah, okay, great. So you come back, you're not as lame as you were before you were as lame.

SPEAKER_04 16:28

I'm a hip-hop head.

SPEAKER_02 16:29

Are you still acting while you're doing this?

SPEAKER_04 16:31

I'm still acting, yeah. Yeah, at this point, I started doing more school acting. I started doing more acting at the high school. So like I joined like drama club and like started doing plays there. Uh, and and then I was just like very much into hip-hop. And so that really I think the bullying kind of like shifted because I just found like a similar crew. Yeah. We just talk about albums coming out or do like kick ciphers and freestyles around the school. And like I was actually like not bad at freestyling, turned out, and so that was like fun just to go off the cuff and rap and you know, graffiti and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

Yeah. Okay, that's cool. So then after so after high you're still acting, and like you get to an opportunity, like you're gonna about to graduate high school, probably, right? Like you're you find your community, and it's an artistic community. Um, and then you are about to graduate high school, and then then what happened? What do you did? You know that you were like, Oh, I have to go seek acting, or how did that work?

SPEAKER_04 17:27

What after oh well after high school, I kind of got so I grew up very religious also as well. Like I talked about church plays earlier. So after high school, I kind of decided that I wanted to go more toward the church and more toward God. And so I became really engulfed in uh trying to be a Jehovah's Witness. Essentially, I kind of like shifted my life a little bit. So I like I stopped acting after high school. Um and I'm so curious about that.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Why why like okay, so you stopped acting. I think I can understand why you would stop one why one would stop acting because you're prioritizing this um not the faith itself, but like the idea that you are going to go out and proselytize for this. Yeah, absolutely. So that that sort of makes sense, but w how did you come to this decision?

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Well, you know, again, like the church was such a big imprint on my life growing up. You know, I probably spent like uh at least four or five services a week growing up as a kid. Right, my grandma was a pastor, my mom was evangelical, my grand, my other grandmother was like a full Baptist, my dad's side of family were Jehovah's Witnesses, so it's like religion was just such a common theme. Uh, so I I felt like I needed to get back to that. Okay, I felt like I had kind of strayed over the last two years in my high school. Because of hip-hop, yeah, hip-hop is a gateway uh from religion. I was getting out. Uh but I still listen to this. I still listen to what's great was I still listened to hip-hop when I was uh a Christian or be trying to be a Christian, and my my friends who were also like studying and stuff like that to be more Christians were uh we were all into hip-hop. So that was like cool that we just sound like uh yeah, we weren't like it's like whatever. I mean, like Eminem, probably not, you know. I remember my pops like broke my Eminem CD when he heard all the stuff that he was white. Because he was white, yeah, yeah. No, because he was very provocative and very about killing his mom.

SPEAKER_02 19:21

Uh I remember that first album very well.

SPEAKER_04 19:23

Yeah, yeah. Um, so you know, with its limits, but uh we were still I was still like a hip-hop

Faith, Stepping Away, And A Crisis Over Beards

SPEAKER_04 19:30

head, and then for like two years I kind of was just focusing on that. And then I was like, what am I doing?

SPEAKER_02 19:36

Well, this I But when did you get to the what am I doing stage?

SPEAKER_04 19:39

Like what you know, I had a f you know what's so funny is that um my beard was kind of my falling out with organized religion because the religion I was aspiring to be in, Jehovah's Witness at the time, they just looked at beards, they kind of looked down on it like it wasn't like you know uh appropriate in a sense to go out and proselytize. Is that right? Yeah. I mean that's what I said. I don't know. I I'm just repeating what you said. Uh and then so I was just like, wait, so my beard is gonna cause an issue. Like, who cares if I'm coming with the word of God?

SPEAKER_02 20:15

Is it because you're dirty or like that it looks unhygienic?

SPEAKER_04 20:18

Um I think it because it I think for them, for the people who put the structures in place for this organized religion, they wanted a kind of Americanized business look for all the people going out.

SPEAKER_02 20:33

Okay, so that's why you guys there suits or is it white shirts and skinny tires?

SPEAKER_04 20:38

Well that's that's Mormon or church a lot of the saints. And we were just like suits, you know, you always dress up suits and clean shaven, and you know, if you wanted to have a mustache, you got a mustache. But then I was like, oh, but what if I want to get my hair braided? No, like what if I want to dress? No. So I was like, okay, so you're basing our look kind of off Americans' viewpoint.

SPEAKER_02 20:59

And when you say American, what you mean is white people?

SPEAKER_04 21:01

White people, yeah. Uh so it was like, I was like, I don't know if I love that my religion's kind of adopting that, especially in the sense that the religion was very much like stay away from the secular world, like white people are worldly, we don't, we, we, we're trying to live in God's light. We don't vote, we do all these things, and we're not paying attention, we're not not paying attention, but we're not adapting the aspects of the world. And so I was like, but you're adopting the aspects of the world with this thing, right?

SPEAKER_02 21:29

And so that was like kind of like a direct contradiction of what they're saying. I thought so.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

And then I also felt like, oh, but then it's like kind of tanged toward the aspect of racist points of view in America, like not having braids and stuff like that. I was like, I just don't know if I agree with that, you know. And so that kind of put a crack in it for me, and then I kind of stayed stepped away from the organized aspect of religion while like still trying to maintain like spirituality and still like believing in God and like praying and stuff like that.

SPEAKER_02 21:58

Right. And so then after this fissure. No.

SPEAKER_04 22:04

So after this fissure, I had to have like a couple years of just like living life. And I had like two children. And like I had to figure out like how I was going to raise my son. And like the world kind of got very real.

SPEAKER_02 22:18

In what way?

SPEAKER_04 22:19

In the sense that I had to get a job and get a place and like be a breadwinner for a family.

SPEAKER_02 22:25

And how did that go?

SPEAKER_04 22:26

So I I it, I mean, look at me now. No. Back then it was very tough. I got a job at Blockbuster Video and they were paying $7.50 an hour. I moved my son. What year was this? This was like 2000 and like four, 2005-ish. 2005, actually. 2005, 2006. And so got a job at Blockbuster Video. My son and his mom, we moved into an eight-bedroom house with eight other people. So we just had a room because that was the only thing I can afford at the time. It was rough, you know. But, you know, I was able to, you know, pay the rent and put food on the table and provide and you know, all that, all that stuff. And then, you know, from that job, I, oh, a woman, a woman actually came to me. I was working at Bloodbuster Video, this woman, Katherine Glenn, incredible woman, was just like, I your personality, like, are you an actor? And I was like, Well, oh yeah, I am, but I haven't done it in so long. And then she was like, You gotta get back into it. Like your look, your your vibe, like, you gotta, you, you gotta do it. And so she like was really helping me like figure it out and like work on my resume and all this like that, and like trying to get me back into the field. So I started doing a little bit of like theater again, you know, and so that was like really fun doing like storefront theater and like callbacks at Steppenwolf, and you know, all this that was kind of like the the entry point to that. And so she was incredible, Catherine Glenn. Shout out, Catherine Glenn. Uh, and from that point, I got a job bartending. Uh like two doors down from where I worked at Blockbuster, the owner of this bar would always come in. Right. And I remember I would ask him, like, you guys hiring? He's like, No, we're not. And then one day I'm walking down the street with my groceries. It's like a rough day, and I'm walking on the street and I see him walking down the street. He's like, Hey, you still looking for that job? And I was like, Yeah. And he's like, Come in Thursday. And I was like, Bet, you know, this is like probably eight months, nine months after I first talked to him about like, hey, you guys hiring?

Blockbuster Job To Bartender To Commercial Actor

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Uh, because I actually went to bartending school in Chicago, if you can believe it.

SPEAKER_02 24:34

Of course I can. I mean, if you're like trying to be an actor or like also, like, you can make good money as a bartender.

SPEAKER_04 24:41

Why are you having a bartending school is like so like what? Like, you're not placing it in. But I will say, like, they have you like use the like little little cards. Uh, what do you call those? Note cards. Note cards. I was gonna post it. They have you use note cards and like write down the drinks and stuff like that. So I was like memorizing a lot of drinks and was like, they have you like I've all like my four count pores have always been on point. So I was like, I did actually learn some stuff at this bartending school, but it's just so funny to think like I went to bartending school.

SPEAKER_02 25:12

It does feel like a scam because it's sort of like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_04 25:16

Yeah, literally, I mean, literally that. Uh, but they do talk about like cordials and like so they did like have history. Like someone was like, I think there's a need for this to teach this thing. And so, you know, I can't I can't be mad at them because once I dig the bartending job, like I was pretty good at it, you know.

SPEAKER_01 25:31

But just pop in.

SPEAKER_04 25:33

So hard to get a bartending school. No one's gonna be like, well, let me see your resume. Oh, bartending school at ABC Bartending. Wow, well, come like you know, so he like this owner didn't know to bartending school. He just thought, I seems cool. You can teach anybody how to bartend, like whatever. It's like um, which you you can, you know, it's not it's not that hard if you just know how to stop, count, and pour. Like it's not, I mean, now some bartenders are very skilled, like in in bartending is those are mixologists, those are different echoes, and it was a school of mixology that's the code. Of course there was.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

It's like they're trying to get tuition out of you school for it.

SPEAKER_04 26:05

Yeah, you gotta have an ology there. Yeah. Um, but at this job, you know, I worked there for uh for a while, and then another woman who I met there was like, oh my god, you have a great personality. And then I was like, Oh, thank you. And she's like, I'm working at this uh, you know, uh commercial agency. You should come down and like, you know, come do it. And I was like, what? And then so I actually did it. I joined this commercial agency and like started booking work in Chicago as like a commercial actor. And so I was like bartending and going out for commercials, and then like I started working at Best Buy at Geek Squad. So I was like Geek Squad, seven or three, five days a week, bartending two nights a week, you know, and then like commercials whenever I could. So, but but but it did really help. I like started like making way better money, you know, than 725 an hour, able to like help afford things and stuff like that, you know, dealing with like family stuff and health stuff, you know, obviously, because just that's just life. But uh, I was able to like make something work from that enough to like save up money so that I can like you know try to take a stab in California and see what when did that become a plan? That's always been the plan.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

So you had always wanted to move to California, always wanted to move to Hollywood. You heard Tupac's California Love, and you were like, I can't wait to go.

SPEAKER_04 27:21

No, I heard Randy Newman's uh I Love LA. No, um, I just knew it was like always like Hollywood is the dream. Like that's just what it was always like, you know, okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:33

When you when you were saying Hollywood was the dream, like what would what do you want to do? What kind of roles did you want? What what was the dream look like for you?

SPEAKER_04 27:40

Oh, I mean, like anything like Will Smith was doing, like Independence Day. Independent. Oh, independent day would have been so fun. Men and Black would have been so fun.

SPEAKER_03 27:48

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:48

Uh yeah, it was just really like I just wanted, I mean, honest got truth was like, I just wanted to work in industry. So I knew I wanted to be an actor, but I would always say, like, hey, even if I can be like a camera op or just be on set, I know this is like the field I wanted to be in. So I I I was just like, I'm gonna just be out where it's happening. Right.

SPEAKER_02 28:05

So you were bartending, you were uh you were um geek squatting, you were acting, you were saving up money, and you got yourself so then you were able to move to LA. You got to Los Angeles, you're like, I'm gonna, I'm gonna be an actor. Yeah, I'm gonna be an actor.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

Okay, then what happened? Then I started taking improv classes, which I never did in Chicago.

SPEAKER_02 28:21

Makes perfect sense. Why would you take improv classes in the city who's most famous for improv comedy?

SPEAKER_04 28:27

Yes, I attempted to take improv classes in Chicago,

Moving To LA And Diving Into Improv

SPEAKER_04 28:30

but I don't think my money was right at the time where I wanted to do it. I auditioned for like a diversity scholarship at uh Second City, and they were like, nope. Um, so it just kind of it was something I knew I was going to do, but kept passing me by. So when I moved to LA, I knew the first thing I was gonna do, they had a uh, you know, Improv Olympic was in Chicago, IO. And I knew they had an LA chapter. So I was like, oh, second I get to LA, I'm signing up to take improv classes because so much commercial work I was doing in Chicago was like all improv based, and I was like a natural at it. I never like trained in improv and I was like, oh, I should, I should actually learn what this like art form is, so I can be even sharper and maybe I'll meet people or anything like that.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Right. Um so you immediately go to the improv Olympic West.

SPEAKER_04 29:14

Yep, improv Olympic West. I signed up. Like I moved to LA October, you know, it's technically October 3rd, but really it was October 13th, because right before I moved to LA, I booked a commercial in Chicago. So I had to move to LA October 3rd, then fly back to Chicago to shoot the commercial, and then I finally came back October 13th.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

What was the commercial?

SPEAKER_04 29:33

It was like, what was it? It was kind of, it wasn't anything crazy. Uh it was like some type of like insurance, like some off-brand regional insurance commercial in Chicago. Um and then so I got back October 13th, and then I think I started class like October 18th at IO.

SPEAKER_02 29:51

Wow. West. Incredible. And then what happened after that?

SPEAKER_04 29:55

Uh, and so I did a whole year of I.O. I met I met this guy level two at IO, which was very fun. Uh, but I did a whole year at Improv Olympic West, and then I went to UCB Upright Citizen Brigade, did a whole year there, then I started studying at the Groundlings after I did a year there. And then from there, you know, I got on Herald teams at I.O. and sketch teams and herald teams and mod teams at UCB. So just was very fortunate to have something in this realm.

SPEAKER_02 30:25

Okay, so because I know you very well, um, it's actually it's like just to be clear, it's like it's not super common for people to audition for Herald at the Upright Citizens Brigade and get on the first year. It's like kind of uh it's not it's not impossible, but it's not very common. Yeah, and so it was kind of like a big deal that it's the first time that you ever auditioned for Herald at UCB, which is an incredibly competitive um thing. Like seven, eight hundred people are auditioning for these very limited roles. Yeah, 16.

SPEAKER_04 30:57

800 people auditioned for 16 slots.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

And you got one of them. And I got one on right. And I remember it there's tail around the community that there that you I feel like you've told me, and tell me, correct me if the if this is not correct. But during your callback for Harold, you felt like your initiation of one of the group games was possibly one of the things that really helped solidify the position.

SPEAKER_04 31:18

Oh, yeah. Like that's so funny, is like my original audition, I was like, oh, this was this was fun, this was good. Yeah, but I obliterated my callback.

SPEAKER_02 31:27

Okay, can you just give us the initiation for okay?

SPEAKER_04 31:30

Yeah, so so that so you know, you have all these organic things happening and it kind of gives you ideas. And for some reason, there was something brought up in I think our opening, and I initiated a game hosted by Steve Harvey called Can You Handle That Smell? Uh, which is so silly. And I basically would just like go down the road and was like, all right, all right, y'all, let's make Steve Harvey, whatever, you know, whatever my Steve Harvey represented. I was like, can you handle that smell? All right, and I go down and was like, and this is uh a funky foot, you know, like fucking say they were like smelling like then like somebody threw up and I was like, okay, yo, you got funky foot with a little bit of throw-up, you know. So like I was like just adapting to it, and it was like killing, it was so fun. But I remember that group game, I was like, holy crap, and then when I left the audition, I got so nervous. Because I was like, holy fuck, I think I just got on a Herald team. And I was thinking, because you know, I I hadn't watched a ton of UCB shows, but I was like, I am not good like them. I was like, I don't do the game thing like they did. So I was like, holy fuck, I'm gonna get on a herald team and I'm gonna suck. Like, I'm gonna be up on stage and I'm like, fraud, you know, whatever, you know. So I felt so good, and like I remember I called like a girl I was kind of seeing, not

UCB Herald Breakthrough And Industry Attention

SPEAKER_04 32:45

really seeing at the time. Uh was like, oh my God, I just got on a herald team. And they're like, what? I was like, yeah, I really just like they tell you, I was like, no, I just, I just know I crushed it. Like, I and and I'm very like, I'm very hard on myself sometimes. So I was being just like objection. I was just like, that was probably one of the best improv sets I ever had. I was like, crap, you know, but I was like, shit. And then they called me, you're on a herald team. I was like, thank you. And I was like, no. And then I started doing hero, and I was fine. And I I was I remember my first show, I had so many fun choices, and then it it was nerve-wracking every week, though. I was so nervous every week going because it's just so packed, you know. To us, yeah, you know, starting I.O. UCB was always like the ooh, that's where all the super famous people are. Like it was like the hot kid on the block, you know.

SPEAKER_02 33:30

So we were like kind of like the red-headed stepchild. Yeah, we were like the I I. It's like, oh, okay, well, oh, you guys are on herald at IO, like, okay, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 33:38

Even though there's nothing wrong with being redheaded.

SPEAKER_02 33:39

Hey, thank you so much.

SPEAKER_04 33:41

Um, but yeah, so you know, it was a big deal uh in the comedy scene.

SPEAKER_02 33:45

And well, right, in fairness for the audience, just to like kind of explain the time, right? We're talking about early 2010, probably, or 2010. So it's like this is a time when on network TV, which was the thing that still existed and paid well and was very important and lucrative for people, the advancement of people's careers, is that there was like Parks and Recreation, of which Amy Poehler was the lead and like creative force behind and executive producer, was one of the original UCB create founders. And so it essentially, not really, but in a small way, was a funnel to talent to this TV show. Absolutely, right?

SPEAKER_04 34:22

So so many people from UCB were working on so many TV shows. Aubrey Plows, like you said on there, Donald Glover on community. Like, there was just like there seemed like this incredible pipeline, right?

SPEAKER_02 34:33

And that's just actors, like that doesn't even include the people who are like on stage that are like staff writers on community, like staff writers on uh on uh Parks and Rec and the office, like all that sort of stuff. It's like so it was like very um, it was a big deal that that happened.

SPEAKER_04 34:47

Yeah, absolutely. Uh and I remember after my first night of Herald calls from WME, ICM, CAA, like literally agents. I had just signed with somebody two weeks prior, though. Jason Hyman at Talentworks. Uh what up? Uh and so it was crazy. Like, I literally after my first night, like agencies were like, hey, are are you is he with somebody? Like, what's going on? So I was like, holy crap, you know.

SPEAKER_02 35:12

Um that's a great so well this I I've never asked you this. Do you feel like that like that callback audition that got you on Harold is the thing that had was able to give you the opportunity to basically get the acting jobs that ended up following that? Or do you feel like it was like this is an inevitability and that Harold was just like a cool stop along the way?

SPEAKER_04 35:37

Uh yeah, I think it was more so of an inevitability in a sense that I had been doing so much of the work. Like, you know, when I started doing improv when I came out here, that's all I did. Like I didn't watch movies, I didn't watch TV shows. I was at iOS every night. I was doing practice squads, I was doing drop-in classes, I was taking class, like improv really just consumed me. So I literally just did like two years consistently of just master class comedy. Like, you know, just like in the like lab, like, you know, uh it was incredible, like to go to class, and then you know, as you know, like we got put on a team very early on in I.O. where we got to perform every Friday night with Bobby Hot Stuff. Shout out, Bobby Hot Stuff. Um, and so I think it was inevitability in the sense that I had just been working so hard and working on the craft so much. And I don't think UCB would have necessarily gotten me um to where I was, or Harold itself would have got me to where I was, but it definitely helped for sure in in the sense of like sharpening my comedic talent and being around so many incredibly gifted people and having the fortunate aspect of having a lot of cool people come in the audience to watch that stuff.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah, right. Okay, and so after you did like like you said, you were like steeped in the improv community. How did Ben and Kate come to be?

SPEAKER_04 37:01

So again, I just got this agent. You know what's so funny is like this was the times where you could go to the the agencies would have like agents would have like little things where you get to come up with workshops, right? And now that I guess those don't happen anymore, right? Or maybe they happen in some different capacity. But I got my agent from Workshop, and I know some people are like, these are a scam, but I came in there and did this like super serious Katrina scene, and like Katrina the hurricane, yeah, okay. So uh I did like this super serious Katrina scene monologue, and then Jason was like, Okay, yeah, oh, what's this about UCB? And I was like, Oh, yeah, I just got on a Herald team. Like, and this is before I had ever like I just got on a Herald team, but then I didn't have my first performance yet. You know, it was like a little window, and he was like, Really? Like, and that was like where he really lit up. And I think he was like, Oh, you do comedy, even though it's super serious, yeah. You know, Katrina's screen. Do you remember any of the Katrina scene monologue? I do not at all. I don't know. It was like, you know, the house swept away. It was, you know, it was serious, but it wasn't great. I don't

Booking Ben And Kate And Pilot Realities

SPEAKER_04 38:00

think I did a great job, but it did an okay job. Like, yeah, at least he was like, Oh, I guess he can act a little bit. Um, but it was really like the comedic thing. It was like, oh, so then he came to see the show. He had already like hip-pocketed me a little bit after that.

SPEAKER_02 38:10

He was like, Oh, send you out.

SPEAKER_04 38:11

He was like, Oh, yeah, we'll see what happens. And like, I went out for like this like ABC family thing and whatnot. And then right after this, I got my manager, right? And this is like the end of the year, so there was like nothing really coming in. And in January, my first network pilot audition was for Ben and Kate. And so I was like, okay, oh, go in for this, and I auditioned for it. Had so much fun in the room. And then they're like, they want to test you. And I was like, what? I didn't know what that was at the time. It's like, but that's when you get you get pretty far along in the process. You're one of the people that were actually thinking about they want to do a studio test and a network test to just make sure that everyone on the business side, the creatives, the people in charge of the companies are all on board. They can sell your face. They can sell you and they and they and they see something in it. Uh, so you know, they had said they want to test me, but they were like, but the problem is it's like no one else's cast, and like this character isn't like, you know, one of the leads. So we kind of we're gonna test you, but it's gonna probably be like a month before we actually test you because we just gotta actually figure out what the cast is gonna be. But they just were like, we just love what you did or whatnot. And so that's when they like had me come in to do hot in Cleveland and stuff like that, that the same cast and agencies and whatnot. And then I I came in for the test and had so much fun with the test, and then they were and I remember, I remember uh I had a UCB show the night, because you know, you do the test and you just don't know what's gonna happen, right? Because the test has to go to a studio, they they record it, or sometimes they have you perform in front of the whole, all the executives, and they didn't have me do that, thank God. So they put me on tape and then they sent to the studio, studio approved, and it's like it's up to the network now, and I didn't know what's gonna happen. I had like a Harold Knight show the night before. Came back home because Nate and I were living with each other. I woke up at 5 a.m. Congrats, buddy, blah, blah, blah. Like a text, and I was like, What? And then I opened up the the deadline and it was like Echo Kellum books. But so I found out in that moment, and because you were sleeping, I was like, oh shit, I sh I can't be loud.

SPEAKER_01 40:06

Like, I need to like just take it in.

SPEAKER_04 40:09

I was like, holy shit, whoa, whoa, you know, but like I want to scream like, oh my god, you know, but I was like, oh Nate's sleep, never mind. Like that's but uh uh yeah, so then I found out I got that, and that was like just such a dream come true, get to work on that job.

SPEAKER_02 40:22

Yeah, that's incredible. Yeah, okay, so man, how how you you keep saying, like, oh, it had so much fun. How do you have so much fun when you're testing for like a thing that can change your life? Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 40:33

Um it's never fun when it's in front of the executives. That feels a little bit more like serious, serious, and you're like, oh, I'm being so judged. But when you were with producers who are like rooting for you and want you to do a good job, it just creates an environment where it's like, oh, this is fun. I don't feel all that pressure. I'm just gonna come in here, do my thing, kind of do something similar to what I did, and and then see what happens. So that was just kind of the approach I took with it. But I felt like they they they were very much like you kind of get a vibe when you know you're the favorite, though. Right. You know, you can kind of tell. Oh, at that point, it's just like just don't fuck it up, you know, just be you and do the thing and just don't blow it, you know. So I was just like, oh, I'm not gonna blow it. Like, I know the lines, I've been studying it, and I'm in um this environment. You know, it's great. You know, if you mess up, like, can I come and take that over? It's like, of course, let's start. And like, it's so easy when it's like that kind of test, right? Not easy. I mean, I've I've I also tested for, I would say I've tested for about 15 shows, if I'm right. Like something like that. Yeah. I remember one year I tested for six shows one year. Um I was like, whoa. Uh, and I didn't get any of them. But then I got an offer to do a CW show based on I auditioned for the rush hour thing and test it for rush hour. Right. When they create that. Yes. But they didn't like me for rush hour, but they was like, you could be great in this CW show we're doing. And so they offered me the role in the CW show, and that's kind of how like I got into CW's, you know. Um, I got on their on their um in their radar. Yeah, and that's how I got arrow and stuff like that. Um, but yeah, wow testing can be fun if it's like you just got the support behind you.

SPEAKER_02 42:09

Yeah, yeah. You test, you book uh a national. Well, actually, you book a pilot. Book a pilot. Okay, great. Yes. So you're celebrating silently while I sleep.

SPEAKER_04 42:21

While you sleep, yeah. Um and and then And then you woke up and I'm probably sure I was like, Nate, holy crap, I booked the show. There definitely screams. I remember that. Like, ah, this is so cool. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:31

Okay, so then uh, so then you go and shoot the pilot. How's that work?

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Oh my god, it was so fun. So, you know, uh, we were shooting on different locations and whatnot.

SPEAKER_02 42:41

And because it's a single camera comedy.

SPEAKER_04 42:43

Single camera comedy, right? Jake Kasten's directing, who's an incredible director, Lawrence Kasten's son. Shout out Lawrence Kasten and Jake Kasten. Uh, and Dana Fox was a showrunner. She was just like the warmest, like funniest, kindest human being you could ever work with. And we just had the most fun shooting it. Like, I didn't really, I was like, is there gonna I was like, is there like a pamphlet on like how to be an actor on set? Like, I didn't know like anything, but it's just like you just kind of do it and you figure it out, you know? Yeah. Um, and so we should shoot the pilot for five days or six days or seven days or something like that in LA, different locations. You get your call time, they send you the full script. You oh wait, first you have a table read before you even shoot, before you do the pilot. Right. After everyone's booked, they have everyone come and do a table read for the whole network in the studio, right? And so we have That sounds nerve wracking. That is nerve-wracking because because there's a lot of rumors like, hey, the table reads the real, the real audition, and a lot of people get fired and stuff like that. And sadly they did like fire our lead. It was booked originally in in the in the show. So we were like, there was a lot of word, like we they're not gonna be able to find a new lead, so this show's probably gonna be done. Sorry, you know. So it's like, oh crap. And then the next morning was like, Hey, Dakota Johnson is gonna probably do. The pilot, or something like that. She tested and they loved her, and you know, so then the show is back on. So it's like, oh great, thank God. You know, because that really threw a monkey wrench. They they they got rid of one of the leads after the pilot, um, who's an incredible actor. And I'm so happy to see her absolutely crushing it now on the bear and other stuff. Abby Elliott, she's so incredible, so I'm glad she got that. Um and then we table read after that, everything goes well, and then we get like the dates, like, okay, so this is the date. You get the schedule, you know, all the scenes

Multi‑Cam Vs Single‑Cam Life

SPEAKER_04 44:30

you're getting in. They give you like this whole like one-liner that has like all the dates, all the scenes, all that stuff. So you're like, oh crap, I was like, I gotta start rehearsing and practicing. And right. Then we shot it, and it was so great, so supportive, so fun. Um, and then you wait, you shoot it, and they're like, great, we and that's cut. We wrapped. Great job, everybody. And then you wait for a couple months to see if the network likes it, if it tests well, you know, because they they have a lot of pilots that they shoot, and only like, you know, 10% or 15% actually get made into series, but it tested really well. It was from the same producer as a new girl. That was a hit. So you know they were, I think, apt to say, let's give it a shot. And so they picked it up for a series. And then, like, I got a call like the day of, hey, got picked up the series, you're going to New York tomorrow. What? Like, and then next thing you know, a flown of New York, first class, incredible hotels, parties with Seth McFarlane and Zoe Saldana, Broadway, like, you know, with the lead of of uh Book of Mormon, Josh Gad and Duranos, and like in New York with the head of my agency and eating the best foods and being chauffeured around and black limousines, and it was like holy crap, my first time in New York, too, by the way. So I was like, this is New York, wow, you know, this is New York. And I think we came back to New York like two weeks later and stayed, like on the floor in someone's apartment in Chinatown. And I was also like, This is New York. I still like actually really loved it. I was like, oh, I got the the rich experience and the poor experience, and I love both. Uh so yeah, and then you know, picked up, and then we shoot the series in August, and we shoot for a year, and then it was great. We did like 15, 16 episodes, and that's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 46:17

Yep. And then so obviously, like it's a very it's a difficult business, and TV, like, like there's a reason that we're talking here right now, is like TV is has been destabilized by streaming, and like with YouTube, we we as creators have the privilege and ability to make our own um content and find our own audiences. And it's like these are essentially small little TV studios, and it's like uh so the Bennett ends up going away because it didn't test or didn't have the got canceled, didn't have enough ratings, yeah. Right, and so then uh and then you continue on your journey of doing series regular work, and yeah, so you so you work on a show, uh Sean Saves the World is a multi-cam. And what was the difference between the working on a multi-cam versus working on the uh single cam Ben and Kate?

SPEAKER_04 47:04

Well, the multi-cam schedule is like so chill because you have a set schedule, right? And our schedule was basically like Monday, nine to three, Tuesday, nine to two, Wednesday, one hour for the table read, Thursday, like nine to two, and then Friday was like our shoe day. And so we get air at like 11 and shoot to like 10 at night. Right. And then, but you know, you just know

The Arrow Years: Stability And Sacrifice

SPEAKER_04 47:30

what your schedule is gonna be every week in a single cam, every week is different, just depending on locations and you know. And you just it just takes longer to shoot, it just takes longer to shoot, yeah. Right. So uh multicam is just the the schedule's a lot more um locked in, so you get to like kind of figure out you you kind of know what your schedule is so you can like schedule other things in life and take care of different things like that. Right, yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:52

Right, and how and so did you enjoy working on the multi-camers?

SPEAKER_04 47:55

Oh, yeah, it was so fun. Yeah, love working with Sean Hayes, learned so much from him. Um, you know, having the same director every episode was great. Yeah um, yeah, it was it was a lot of fun. Got to play a real fun character as well. Yep, so much fun.

SPEAKER_02 48:08

Yeah, and then so after Sean Saves the World, then what happens?

SPEAKER_04 48:11

So Sean Saves the World gets canceled, and then I book another pilot that year. Um and then that doesn't go. So like I'm just like working throughout the summer on like little small films, like I did Shangri La Suite and like things like that. So I'm just like still working, working. And you know, next year comes, get another pilot, you know, and then see if that goes. Oh no, I think actually the next year is when I auditioned, like I got tested for six pilots and uh didn't get any of them. It's like uh and then I shoot the CW pilot, and that doesn't go, but then the Aero audition came like a couple months later, and so then I booked that, and then now I'm recurring on Aero, and then they wanted to upgrade me to series regular, so then I did series regular on there, right?

SPEAKER_02 48:56

And so you're there for four seasons, and how many episodes did you end up doing?

SPEAKER_04 48:59

I think I did like 80 or something like that. 80 something like that, like set either somewhere between like 70 and 80, something like that.

SPEAKER_02 49:06

Right, that's incredible. I mean, like, do you look back at that and be like, wow, I did 80 episodes of TV for this one character?

SPEAKER_04 49:13

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. Yeah, and I think at that time too, like I just was like, Man, I would like some stability. You know, I I love doing the comedies, but they're so hard to bring back sometimes. So I was I was looking for a little bit more stability in that way. And it was really nice to have that same character every year and just know like this is the job, you know, even though it was like a very difficult job in the sense of like the hours we shot, you know, it's a lot of action, it's a lot at night. We would be working till 6 a.m., 7 a.m. like every week, you know, on Fridays or Thursdays and Fridays. There's just like a lot of late nights in the cold, right? You know, uh shot in Canada. We shot in Vancouver, yeah. So it was very like challenging in that way of like, whoa, my sleep is done. And like, whoa, it's freezing outside, and whoa, I'm so tired, and I gotta go shoot right now, you know. It was uh still so grateful. It was such a fun environment with the cast. The cast was incredible to work with in terms of like we all just really gel with each other and the crew, we love the crew. Um, but yeah, it it was it was a tough, tough schedule wise.

SPEAKER_02 50:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:20

Yeah, okay.

SPEAKER_02 50:21

And so then I mean that's that's that's consistency, though. That's nice five years of just like working and and living life and yeah, and all that sort of stuff. And all the way the all this time you're still performing at UCB, you're still doing stuff at IO.

SPEAKER_04 50:36

Not as much in Vancouver when I was living in Vancouver, because you know, we shot 10 months out of the year, so that was other things like you're shooting 10 months out of the year. So, but whenever I could come back, I would still perform at UCB. My herald team's still there, right? My sketch team's still going. So whenever I could jump in, I would. Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:51

Right. And then so after Arrow, you ended up leaving Arrow, right?

SPEAKER_04 50:54

Yeah, I I left Arrow. Yeah, yeah. After season seven.

SPEAKER_02 50:58

Right. And then they had one additional season after that. That's yeah. Yeah. And so what was the intention with leaving Arrow?

SPEAKER_04 51:04

Uh I just I felt like I was just spending so much time away from my family, my children, and stuff like that. Yeah, it just made it was just making life in that regard family-wise a little difficult. So I wanted to like just be back home. And also, like I did, family was definitely the the the main point, but I also missed doing comedy a little bit. Right.

SPEAKER_02 51:27

And like right, because there's there wasn't like I guess there's a little levity in era, but it's not like you're playing a comedic character.

SPEAKER_04 51:34

Yeah, like I was the comedic perspective, but it was still a serious it's a drama, still, yeah, you know. So there will have like you said a little levity, but it was still a serious show. Um and so it was nice to like come back and start laughing more and doing, you know, I had like crying that crying era. Like I was like, oh my god, I gotta like pull up some deep stuff, and you know, so but it was like fun and challenged myself in that way. Yeah, um, but

Returning To Comedy And Leading Grand Crew

SPEAKER_04 52:00

I really missed like being in the muck of like all the comedy and getting to work and being in LA, I just missed it. Yeah, being with my kids and everything.

SPEAKER_02 52:08

So yeah, so when you get back, then Grand Crew becomes a thing.

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Yeah, I mean it it wasn't like instantly, but yeah, then the pandemic happened, right? Or I got back and yeah, the Grand Crew started like material materializing a little bit, and then booked Grand Crew, and then the pandemic happens like a week later. Yeah, wow. So right after Taboree, pandemic, so everything's on pause, and then um later that year, like October, they were like, We're picking Grand Crew for a series, and then so we shot Grand Crew for two seasons.

SPEAKER_02 52:43

Wow, that's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 52:44

So fun.

SPEAKER_02 52:44

And and uh how was the experience of doing Grand Crew?

SPEAKER_04 52:47

You're back here in LA, you're shooting. Oh, it was a dream. It was a dream from true. Like, because I'm also like shooting with my buddies and friends, and I was the lead of the show, so that was like so fun. Finally get to be like the lead of a show, even though it was total such a great ensemble piece, like everyone really got to shine. Um, but it was like the best, like working with the homies and yeah, you know, getting to work in LA, which is so rare sometimes, like to get to stay home and figure out you know, scheduling and everything like that. It was so fun though. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:17

Um, and unfortunately, like that that was two seasons, which is great. Like you're grateful for two seasons, can't be mad at all. Absolutely. I mean, the landscape is changing so much, it's sort of like, man, two seasons is like uh is an incredible win now, it feels like because it's like and it was on it was was a network show, yeah. It was on NBC, right? So it's just like wow, that's that's incredible. Like now that's like unheard of, even just a couple years ago.

SPEAKER_04 53:42

Yep, yep, yep.

SPEAKER_02 53:43

Okay, so I mean, obviously, we're only talking about acting, but uh uh but you write, you direct, you do music, right? And so I think like part of um after Grand Crew happens, like you had always been doing a lot of stuff at Groundlings, yeah, yeah, and like taking classes and going through their entire program and all that sort of stuff. And Groundlings is uh UCB and IO were great because they were like uh improv forward places that also happen to have sketch, and the sketch programs are really good. Like I was very I was on a mod team that used to be very grateful for that experience, and uh we took it very seriously, like they take it seriously, but like Growlings is like a place that teaches you how to write.

SPEAKER_04 54:26

Yeah, yeah, in a lot of ways, yeah. How to write and how to write for yourself, like a really big part of it, you know right to find what is what makes you you, yeah, yeah. So, you know, when Grand Cru was like kind of we were waiting, you know. I I've always loved the groundlings, and a part of when I left went to um Arrow, I got called in to do my next class at Growlings. Yeah, I was like, I literally can't, I'm working 10 months a year. I'm I don't even live in a city, there's no way. So I I couldn't do it. And then I still got to perform at groundlings though, because when I was in Ben and Kate, Nat Faxon was the lead of Ben and Kate. He was a groundling, so I got to like come and do like some little specialty shows and cook them with gas every once in a while. So like I kind of always had a relationship with the theater, even though I wasn't in the program anymore. And you know, just throughout after after everything opened back up, I would like perform regularly there, like every couple months. I would do like a gas show and things like that. And then I just really loved that theater so much, and I was just like, man, uh it's just a shame I could have never become a I never could become a groundling. You know, it's like I just you know, so I like inquired about that, and then I just started taking classes there again and got onto Sunday Company and did that for a year, and then was very fortunate to get offered the chance to be a groundling. So right.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

So you're a groundling prof which is a very uh prestigious position in the comedy world, yes, yes, yes. Um, and like from from the first time that you took a class at groundlings to you getting becoming a main company member, which is incredibly difficult. How many years was it?

The Groundlings Journey And Writing Muscle

SPEAKER_04 56:00

So I started groundlings in 2011 and I became a main company member in 2024.

SPEAKER_02 56:06

Right. So we're talking about 13 years of classes on and off. Yeah. And it it took to do it. Yeah, yeah. 13 years, yeah. Um, what uh so you have to have showcases in in Sunday Company or an advanced writing lab and all this sort of stuff so that you can make it to the next level, right? You have to like kind of prove that you have the sauce. Yeah, yep. Um, do you similar to the Herald uh audition or callback, do you feel like there was anything in your like advanced writing lab that really put you in a position to uh to scale to Sunday Company?

SPEAKER_04 56:40

I mean, I still think the best sketch I've ever written I did in Advanced Writing Lab. And what and what was that? It was this sketch called Legusimo. Leguzumo. Very silly. It was just about a dad who for years thought John Leguizamo's name was John Legusimo. And his family never told him he was wrong, and he finds out one day that he's been saying his name wrong, and he just has uh entire identity crisis about who he is and what he's been doing and everything in his life, and just melts down. His family has to like, you know, reassure him and pick up the pieces and be there for him. But it's such, you know, I love like little just simple, you know, the f I love simple sketches like that. But the funny idea is like the the way this idea happened is that my daughter's grandma, we were like just chatting one time, you know, and I'm in the Vance Lab. And then she's like, oh my god, have you seen that Legusimo show on MSNBC? And I was like, who? I was like, I was literally like Legusimo, I don't know who that is. She's like, Yeah, you know, John Legusimo. I was like, Do you talk about Leguizamo? She's like, Oh my god, is that his name? I never knew his name. I was like, You never knew John Leguizamo's name. So I and she was like, I'm writing a sketch about this right now, and and it it it brought the house down. It was so funny. Yeah. I even had one of my buddies like who's a groundly was like, that's still your best sketch.

SPEAKER_01 57:55

I was like, I know, yeah, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 57:58

But you know, I've written other great sketches too. Uh, but that one I really just really, really loved so much.

SPEAKER_02 58:04

Yeah, that's incredible. So now you're of uh you're a main stage groundly.

SPEAKER_04 58:08

Mainstage groundling.

SPEAKER_02 58:09

You have been anointed. Yes, yeah, you've made it, which is anointing. You've been anointed.

SPEAKER_04 58:13

They bring a little sword and that's knighted and some water. Not those who are just regular water. Yeah, uh huh. Just unblessed water. Yes, unblessed water.

SPEAKER_02 58:21

Um, okay, great. And so like you're on the trajectory, like you you've this is an incredible goal that you set for yourself to become a groundling. You you have achieved it, and uh you do shows there, and you teach it the groundlings, and yeah, obviously you're still acting and writing and directing and all of this sort of stuff. So, what uh what does the future look like for Echo Kellum?

SPEAKER_04 58:41

Uh I think the future looks uh fun and creative and any specific way or in any specific way, sure, in multiple specific ways. You know, right now I'm doing a lot of um directing for this sketch troupe.

SPEAKER_03 58:55

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 58:55

That uh that's coming out of the groundlings with me and four of the black groundlings. There's only ever been nine black people who've been become growlings in the history of that fifth-year history of that theater. And so four of us created this group called Four After Five, which is because we're the four groundlings after the fifth one. We're six, seven, eight, and nine. I'm number nine so far. Uh and we just were like, uh, you know, my thing was like, hey, we do sketch comedy. Why don't we like put stuff out? It's such a great theater in terms of what we do live, and you know, having the audience come in and say, but we gotta rotten this out and like get it out to the world. So we're shooting and writing a lot of fun stuff. And it's just been so fun to direct everything and just write with them and create so what's the hope or and or expectation with that venture? Uh, I mean, the hope is that it's something we can do regularly, you know. I think um, like I would love to, you know, build a little fan base and tour and just like just put stuff like I I love what like Almost Friday and Please Don't Destroy and people like that have done. So we kind of were just like, let's try that. And and you know what's great about these sketches is you know, we have a great DP. Really? We have a great DP shooting everything. Yeah, and his name is I think Nathan Kawa. Oh wow, okay.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:16

You are yeah, I am in a very great, thank you. I'm delivering it very much. Yeah, um, is there like okay, so but let the people know how are they gonna be able to find these sketches? Where do they need to look to see social media?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:28

So that's what we're trying to help you know. Uh but yeah, we're we have like a handle called four after five, I think, on Instagram. I I've I'm like, hey, y'all, the social media stuff is over. Y'all directing, um I'm directing, I'm having fun writing. Uh but y'all figure out all that other stuff. But I'm there, I think we do have an Instagram, and um, we're gonna start releasing videos next month, and even Growlings are gonna release a couple of our videos under their um under their umbrella too, which is gonna just be fun.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:58

Yeah, that sounds awesome. Four

Building Four After Five And Directing Vision

SPEAKER_02 1:01:00

after five on Instagram.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:01

Four after yeah, four after five on Instagram spelled out, and I knew that. And I knew that probably. Yeah, of course. That sounds great. Okay, that's awesome.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:11

Is there anything else in the works that that we should talk about?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:14

I mean, there's stuff in the works. I don't know if it's anything noteworthy per se.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:19

Um but like what are goals?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

Like, what we're like, oh my god, I want to be directing films, yeah. I want to be directing movies and you know, writing films. I think that's the yeah, the main goal for me. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:31

I feel like we're in an interesting time when it comes to that, right? Because they're like uh as we speak, there was just the film Iron Lung that came out from a YouTuber that played in however many theaters or uh however that independent distribution is like everybody's talking about it. He made 21 million dollars. Um, you know, there's like a lot of different ways to be able to make films these days.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

Yeah, yeah. I love like how Zach Kregger like was just filming everything on whitest whitest kids when you know, and now he's like getting to do so many cool films, like the prairie and and you know, uh weapons and stuff. So yeah, that's like so dope too to see that it's trajectory.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

It's cool to see that like like the traditional models are being broken a little bit, and it's sort of like we do have kind of the almost it's almost moved past privilege and like obligation almost. That it's like if we want to get our stuff seen, like we kind of just have to make it and get it out there. Yep, yeah. Uh, which certainly seems like that's part of the four after five model, which is like, oh, just like we gotta just shoot it, get it out there. Yeah, hopefully something can come of it, and you know, yeah, um, and then see what's next. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, okay, great. Um, I think we could probably play a quick little game here, don't you? Okay, yeah. We're gonna spice it up a little bit. All right, we gotta get the energy going.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:44

Welcome to the energy. Whoa.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:46

Okay, so we're gonna play a little game because uh we just like to have a little fun here at film shit. Um, we are going to play fuck Mary Kill, okay. With movies, okay. But the thing is that it's like uh my producer and wife says that we should say consensually love make, but okay, yes. Um, but we're gonna play it. It doesn't have the same ring, but yeah, it really doesn't. So let's who are you gonna marry uh kill and consensually love make? So so we asked beforehand just uh a couple of directors that uh stand out to you, yeah. You know, that are just influential and exciting directors. And so we have decided to go with the Cohen brothers as your directors of choice. Oh and we've chosen three films of their filmography at random. Okay. Who are you fucking marrying and killing from? No country for old men. Fargo. Oh. The Big Lebowski.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:41

Oh. You oh, people are gonna hate me for this. I think I'm gonna kill Big Lebowski. Okay, just because it's never been one of my I I know people love the Big Lebowski. Now I'm not saying it's a bad film. It's never been one of my favorites from the Cohen Brothers. Why? I don't know. Like, I get the dude, I get the bowling aspect. I've only seen it one time, and it was fairly recent. I've seen like so many of their films before I saw that. I don't know, it just doesn't, for whatever reason, it just doesn't connect with me in the way that people love it. I like it. I think it's a solid film, but I'm gonna have to kill that one. Okay. Because there's no way I can put it over No Country for Old Man.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:18

Yeah, are you marrying No Country or are you essentially love making?

SPEAKER_04 1:04:21

Wait, what was the other one?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:22

Fargo.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:23

Fargo. So yeah, oh man, that's a great one. I think I have to marry Fargo. Just because Franc McDermott was so great in that. And uh was it no, was it not um not William Macy? Who was it? Was it William Macy?

SPEAKER_02 1:04:39

Yeah, William Macy.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:39

Yeah, and William H. Macy was so incredible in that. And so, like, that's a movie that I'm like, ooh, just hold me, hold me tight and love me forever. And then I have to fuck Country Oat Man because, first of all, it's just very bro heavy, so I don't want to marry it. There's a lot, a lot of dude stuff going on. A lot of dude stuff. I can't marry Sugar. Yeah, um, but I can fuck that movie because I fuck

Game Time: Marry, Kill, Love Make With Coens

SPEAKER_04 1:05:00

with that movie. It's an incredible film, probably one of my favorite Colin Brother films. Yeah. Uh, and it's just so, and you can watch it anytime. Like it just the replayability on it, seeing new things every time, it's just so incredible. And it is a uh it is such a great film, and it's it's a movie I would love to make a movie like that or Fargo one day. Um what I love about that film is it's not all in a tight little bow at the end, right? Which I think so many films just hand and then the good guys won, and everything's all right, but it's like that's not how humanity works or real life works in a lot of ways. So I really love the perspective that they didn't put it in a nice, nice little bow and neatly packaged that it was a little bit messy in that sense of like, you know, the ambiguity of did Sugar get away, he's injured, the car crash coming out of nowhere. Yeah, and then like Tommy Lee Jones just monologue. I just was like, oh, this is what a what a beautifully anti climactic way to kind of book in the film with so much going on. It and and I kind of love when films subvert my expectations, especially the expectations that Hollywood has put on so many films, and it has to be all nice and easy. Yeah, so I I love that it was like kind of like not that. Right. That was so fun. Right. And so for me, it just meant like you know, it's like Rothko, like you're just like, hey, I want to fuck with the art. Like, you know, uh yeah, could I draw George Washington looking perfect? Yeah, but how about I just put a lot of color right here and who knows what it is? And that's you know, oh, it's abstract now. And then people are like, oh, abstract art, you know. So I love it in that sense that it's like kind of fucking with form.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:36

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:37

All right, everyone. I think that's about the time that we have for today. I'd like to thank Echo Kellum. Thank you so much for joining me, dude. I'm so incredibly. It's okay. I'm so incredibly grateful that you were our first guest and that you were able to join me as an incredibly dear friend. So thank you. I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:52

Thank you so much for having me. I feel very blessed. I'm gonna look back at the origin of this and be like, yeah, I was there for the first one when this like blows

Closing Thoughts And Call To Create

SPEAKER_04 1:07:00

the heck up. Yeah, and every DP in the world is like the podcast you gotta go to. AK Wood film shit.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:07

Yeah, I love it. Did my older brother come back? I think he didn't. Yeah, he did. I think your older brother's here. I am grateful for him too. Um, okay, guys, that's all the time that we have. Thank you so much for watching. This is film shit. Um, not only is it the umbrella that we talk about, the uh topics or everything under the film shit, but it is also a call to action. So if you want to sit in this chair where Echo is someday and let me interview you, please go out. Please film some shit. You gotta make it because that's how we get to see it. Thank you so much for watching. I'm Nate Kaywood. We will speak soon.