Introducing: Electric World Order | The geopolitics of the energy and technology transition

This first season of The Polycrisis podcast tells the story of the clash between new and old energy regimes.

Just like other energy transitions before it, this is a geopolitical story - not a climate one. Developing countries are leapfrogging their wealthy counterparts by rapidly deploying cheap solar panels, batteries and electric vehicles imported from China. This gives them a low-cost supply that’s immune to wars and other disruptions. 

This energy transition is deeply connected to shifts taking place in the world, especially since the US-Israel attacks on Iran: the reconfiguration of world power, US-China rivalry and the deterioration of US hegemony. 

Hosted by energy and climate finance expert Kate MacKenzie, and Tim Sahay from the net zero industrial policy lab at Johns Hopkins University. They co-author The Polycrisis newsletter, which explores connections between energy, geopolitics, climate change, finance and industry. 

• Produced by Sarah Allely
• Original music by Russell Stapleton
• Mixed by Bethany Stewart

Contact us at: polycrisispodcast@gmail.com

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:04

There's a new world order emerging and it's electric.

SPEAKER_03 0:07

But it strikes at the heart of global power.

SPEAKER_06 0:10

They clearly see fossil fuels as a core element of US power. Full stop.

SPEAKER_02 0:17

The United States uses energy to discipline its allies. And China's driving this new renewable system.

SPEAKER_05 0:25

The clean tech revolution was really a revolution within China for addressing this energy security problem.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

Rather than a plan to kind of dominate and destroy the world, I don't think this was about de-industrializing the rest of the world, but really about meeting domestic needs. This is the polycrisis.

SPEAKER_02 0:44

Our first season is Electric World Order. I'm Kate McKenzie, an energy and climate finance researcher in Australia.

SPEAKER_03 0:51

And I'm Tim Sahai. I run the Net Zero Industrial Policy Lab at Johns Hopkins University.

SPEAKER_02 0:57

The US wants the world to keep buying fossil fuels, while China is selling its clean tech to everyone.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

If you look at satellite imagery, you'll be amazed at the scale.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

And that's changing the future for oil and gas.

SPEAKER_04 1:20

In return, I would say, well, we've certainly seen it happen in individual countries, and it's not because they had a war or this has happened in good times.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Electric vehicles are crushing oil demand.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

As you say this starts to spread, this starts to hit transport demand everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 1:34

In countries like Brazil, Chinese EVs are taking over the streets. I've just been there advising the government on how to bargain with China.

SPEAKER_05 1:42

I think the story is changing now to can Chinese factories get built in countries like Morocco or Turkey.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

This new electric world order is changing people's lives.

SPEAKER_00 1:55

In desert-based areas which are not connected to the grid at all, people now have access to the internet. They can charge their phones, they've got lighting at night.

SPEAKER_03 2:06

But no one with power will give it up easily.

SPEAKER_06 2:09

The US will use its political power, its geopolitical heft, to impede decarbonization efforts anywhere that the US has the ability to prevent them.

SPEAKER_02 2:22

This first season of the polycrisis tells the story of the clash between new and old energy regimes.