#2 Workplace Wellbeing: The HR Wellbeing Challenge Pt 2

Join us for PART 2 of 'The HR Wellbeing Challenge' hosted by Alyson Ainsworth of 10Eighty with speakers Karen Richardson & Michaela Henshaw of 10Eighty, as they discuss practical ideas to support recovery, boundaries and more sustainable workloads for HR teams. 

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10Eighty is all about helping people maximise their potential and in turn, helping organisations harness that potential. Based in the UK and across the globe, we’re a team of coaches, facilitators and leadership consultants – and we work with our clients to build plans tailored to their organisation and goals. Here’s what we do and how we do it: https://youtu.be/XjWv86UUjO4

Our service offerings include: Wellbeing, Leadership and Management Development, Executive Coaching, Career Management and Career Transition.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Join us for part two of the HR Wellbeing Challenge, hosted by Alice Nainsworth of 1080, with speakers Karen Richardson and Michaela Henshaw of 1080, as they discuss practical ideas to support recovery, boundaries, and more sustainable workloads for HR teams.

SPEAKER_01 0:15

Hello and welcome to part two of the HR Challenge. I'm joined again by my uh esteemed colleagues Karen and Michaela to follow on from the conversation we started back at the end of February. We were just saying, where's this month gone again? Uh it feels like it's a month of Fridays at the moment. Um, but we started a conversation around what are the challenges for HR. And what we wanted to do in this session is expand on a few of those, give you some more examples, but also some models that might be helpful when you're thinking about um situations in your career that may that might just um give you a few tips and techniques. So, ladies, would you like to introduce yourselves again for our audience? So, Karen, can I come to you first?

SPEAKER_02 1:04

Yeah, absolutely. Hi everybody, nice to see those of you who are back with us again and and new people too. Um, so I'm Karen. Uh I am an executive coach and psychotherapist, um, autism informed in both of those. And I was an HR director for over 20 years, predominantly in law firms, and 18 months ago made the switch to um run my own business and um practising coaching and psychotherapy, and I'm an associate with 1080. Perfect, and Michaela.

SPEAKER_03 1:37

So, yes, hi everyone. Uh I'm Michaela Henshaw. Um, I um started life as a chartered accountant, five years in practice, 20 years in retail, um, 11 of those at senior director level uh in finance, HR, and then transformation. And for the last 11 years I've been running my own business as a consultant, facilitator, executive coach, career coach, and also an associate of 1080.

SPEAKER_01 2:09

Thank you, Michaela. And I am uh Alison Ainsworth, your host for today. I am an executive coach, facilitator, and podcast host supporting uh also 1080. Um so let's go to our first question. When I was uh chatting to the ladies about this before, um I was thinking about how does how do we how do we work with um now what goes on for HR? Sorry, my mouse has decided to give up the ghost, which is never helpful when you're on a live session.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

At least it shows we are live, Alison.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

No, uh it is a bit uh yeah, okay. This is really not helpful. Um, so our first question, which I might not be able to put up on the banner, was around uh I'll let you ladies start talking while I puff around with it, was about um what sort of examples in your career have you uh could you share with the audience around things that maybe you wish you'd known earlier? So, what sorts of things do you know now that you wish you'd been able to tell your younger self in your careers in HR? So, Michaela, do you want to start with that one for us?

SPEAKER_03 3:33

Yes, um and uh yes, and I was reflecting on this. I mean, there's lots of things when I think about it, but I suppose the the the one of the biggest ones um is I wish I had known more about energy and resilience in my younger self. So uh, you know, I survived 20 years in a fast-paced, you know, um, you know, uh industry like retail. So I obviously was doing something, right? Um, but obviously I was doing it subconsciously, and what would have been more helpful is if I'd have been a bit more informed and a bit more conscious, you know, deliberately conscious in my choices to that enabled me to maximize energy and resilience. So um, so what have I learned um as a qualified uh resilience coach? Um, I have learnt that resilience is not inherent. So, you know, so you often hear people say she's a resilient person or she's not a resilient person. That's rubbish. You can teach yourself resilience. So I think that's the first thing to think about in the career in HR. And the second thing is that resilience is very dynamic, so it's not, you know, kind of I'm I I don't feel very resilient today, or I or I, you know, I'm not very resilient. It's it's that you might feel very resilient in one situation, but less resilient in another because you know there are different dynamics going on there. You might feel resilient one day, but you feel really energized and really resilient the next day. So it is a very, very dynamic and fluid thing. Um and the one, and I suppose knowing the drivers of resilience has been really helpful for me. Oh, well done, Alison. You found your results. Excellent. So um, so I um I think about um I consciously think about resilience and energy all of the time now. And when I'm making my choices through the day about how I do things and how I'm gonna, you know, what does my diary look like? How do I want to show up in those meetings? Then I um think about it through an additional lens, which is the lens of energy and resilience. So it I try when I'm planning not to put um things too close together that you know might be energy draining things. Um I um if I've got an energy drainer in my diary and it's something that I have to do, so it might be writing a board paper, for example. Can't, you know, I can write a board paper very well, but I know it drains me significantly of energy. So if I've got to do that, then I've got to have something beforehand that I can do that's going to really maximize my energy levels, and I've got to have a plan afterwards to re-energize myself before I go on to the next thing so that I can show up in the best way for my clients. So being really clear about what gives me energy and what drains me of energy, and being very reflective and thoughtful about that, I I found incredibly helpful. And using it through my diary planning, um, in order to make sure that I'm at my best through all of that, again, I found incredibly helpful. So if I could tell my younger self something, it would be that.

SPEAKER_01 7:06

Absolutely, and lots of things test our resilience, including not having batteries in your mouse. So that's I say live situation, resilience for contract, batteries in the mouse. Um brilliant. Thanks, Karen. Uh, would you like to jump in with any examples? What would you have told your younger self?

SPEAKER_02 7:26

Yeah, absolutely. Um, and actually, mine's not dissimilar to Michaela's, um, in that I think I wish I'd had an appreciation of the different types of work that we can have and how that impacts on our sense of who we are. And the stress curve is a brilliant example of that that I only really learnt about once I started studying um coaching and psychotherapy, um, which is when we're at work, we can be in one of three zones, which is either the comfort zone, the stretch zone, or the panic zone. And during our working day, we're likely to flow between one of those three states. But I think the piece that I hadn't appreciated, which is if you're predominantly in the panic zone for most of your working day over a prolonged period of time, I'm not sure I recognize that. I think I thought it was normal, whatever normal is. Um, and so whenever I work with clients now, it's probably likely to be one of the first things I say to them in terms of actually over the as an average over the last couple of weeks, how much of your time has been in the comfort zone, the stretch zone, or the panic zone? And I think it's important we recognise that the comfort zone can be quite stressful too, in terms of if we need more stimulation, if we need more input, you know, to as you were describing McKay, you know, writing policies for me was a real energy drainer. It was in my comfort zone without question. Did I enjoy it? Did I get a buzz from it? Categorically not. Um so linked to what you were saying about how to get the best from our energy, I think we have to recognise there are certain things that we are going to get energy from. But also if we are stuck in one particular zone on that stress curve for a long period of time, you know, where we want to be is in the optimal zone, which is the comfort zone. But actually, how much of our time are we spending there? And I think you know, today might be the anniversary of lockdown and COVID beginning. I think really I've seen in that period since HR's really been probably more in that panic zone in terms of responding to things that we've just never are unprecedented and and we've never had to deal with before. Um and the geopolitical environment that we're operating in is also increasingly complex. And again, kind of how do you resolve some or respond to some of these things? Which I guess is the other thing I was just going to quickly mention is that if I'd really I wish I'd known this earlier in my career, which is when situations arrive, we can react or we can respond. When we're in the panic zone, we're really likely to react and keep you know going and not really feel that we have the spaces to take a step back. And that can be as simple as going to make a cup of tea or visiting the toilet. But give yourself a moment to think about how you might respond to something that's come up rather than react to it. And we can also use technology in different ways in terms of if there is a particular complicated case we're working on from an ER perspective, we can set auto forward so that emails from particular parties can go straight into a folder that we can then open at a time that we've set aside the time to sit and read it, rather than have perhaps something land in your inbox that derails you because you're then reacting to that and it might distract you away from some of the things you want to be doing, and you're in that panic zone. So I think mine would be appreciating that stress curve piece and also thinking about how we respond, not react.

SPEAKER_01 11:07

Brilliant. Um, and that links nicely to a question that's come in from Jonathan here saying, Do you have any ideas for energizing or re-energizing? And um, also as a resilience practitioner alongside my uh colleague here, Michaela, I would say it it's deeply personal, Jonathan, but I think there are there are short bursts of things that you do, and there are longer-term strategies, um, very much around what Michaela was saying. I schedule downtime, I schedule personal time. Uh, I make sure I get up and move, I do some short-term quick breathing exercises, particularly when you're in the panic zone. Um, and it really is about thinking about self-care. And and I think Michaela, you made the point about knowing if you've got a busy week, where are the points in your diary that you are going to be able to do the personal stuff? Is it going to yoga? Is it going to walk the dog? Is it just going to sit with a cup of tea or or or one of those things? So um I challenge you, Jonathan, to think about the the pluses and the minuses. We kind of know what the de-energizing activities are, but what's going to give you energy uh in terms of that self-care piece? Would you agree, Taylor?

SPEAKER_03 12:22

I would absolutely. I mean, you know, when I work with my clients around this, I always say it's about finding the personalised strategies. So one person's energy giver might be another person's energy drainer. You know, my friend loves the gym, I can't stand the gym, but she thinks I'm a bonkers for going to Partys, but I love it. So, you know, it's it's finding the things that work for you. But I also say to clients to think about home and work as well. So I think a lot of the time we think of, I often get clients that all their energy givers are personal and all their energy drainers are work. And actually, you know, it it's often a combination of the two, isn't it? So um, so that, you know, I'm sure if you, you know, if you vaguely like your job, then there's going to be some energy givers at work as well. So again, when I'm looking through my diary, you know, and I'm scheduling, I'm thinking about, okay, so if I've got a de-energizing meeting, you know, let's follow that with an a meeting that I know gives me energy. Um, and so it doesn't have to be something that I have to take myself away from work to do it. It might be a work thing, but it's really thinking about what are those things at work that give you energy, what are the things outside of work that give you energy? Um, and you know, the short-term, medium-term, long-term things are important because there are lots of things like just taking yourself away from your desk, having a cup of tea that you can do in the immediate sort of thing, you know, quick five minutes outside, bit of fresh air, walk round the block. Um, but then there might be things that you can't do while you're, you know, during the week while you're at work. But what can I schedule in at the weekend? You know, if you love nature, and you know, how do you schedule that into your weekend so that you go into Monday feeling really refreshed and energized again?

SPEAKER_01 14:11

Yeah, some great suggestions there. And Jonathan says thank you. He's going to do that exercise. So brilliant. Um so um, if we think about models, I mentioned hints and tips, ladies. Um, we were talking about this as uh as a follow-on from the the previous session. What sorts of things have you found helpful when you're stepping out of that situation uh that at work and you're thinking, what would I have done differently? Um are there some things that are useful to recognise? So, Karen, if I come to you first.

SPEAKER_02 14:46

Yeah, so there's two models that come to mind, and I think Michaela and I are probably going to talk um with the examples about both um from different angles. So the first one is something called transactional analysis, it's been around for a long time, and what it talks about is in personal and work life. When we're in communication with other parties, we can we can be in one of three states parent, adult, or child. And I raise it in this context because not exclusively, but quite often, people are expecting HR people to be in the parent role, and we can get pulled into parent role in terms of someone isn't happy about something, they come to us with a problem, they leave us with it. Um, how accountable and responsible do they make us feel as an HR professional for what's going on in their world? And so, what can be quite interesting again, similar to how much a percentage of your day are you in the panic zone or the comfort zone or the stretch zone, how much of your percentage of your day do you recognise you're being pulled into parent, child, or adult behaviour? Because where we want to be in the main is in adult-to-adult conversations. And I worked a lot with Cartman's Drama Triangle, um, it's K R P M A N. You can find it on all good um Googling type sites without preferring one or the other. Um, and so Cartman's Drama Triangle talks about again in any given situation, we can be placed into one of three roles. And we worked with this with my one of my teams that I managed quite a lot in terms of an example of it would be if someone isn't happy about um a policy decision, say how many days they're allowed off because their cats died, let's use that. That person would present themselves in the victim mode, potentially go to their line manager, who might be the rescuer, who might then say, Oh, that's awful, let me um go and talk to HR about that. And HR are in the persecutor role. And so, what you can do is try and turn the drama triangle into the winner's triangle by actually challenging and coaching and breaking that cycle of effectively blame that might sit around what's happening. Um, and it's a model that we haven't got enough time to go into today. I wish we did, um, but it is worth one worth looking at, particularly when HR can quite often be pulled into the persecutor or the rescuer role. And Michaela, I know you had some some insights on that as well.

SPEAKER_03 17:17

Absolutely. So I think um when I first moved from the world of finance to the world of HR, then um I um it always sticks with me. One of the things that my um the CFO, who I was working for, who um who I was partnering with, um he said to me, stop mothering the team. And I thought, well, you know, what is he talking about? I don't mother the team. But when I reflected on it, I think what he was trying to tell me in a slightly clunky way was that I was very often in parent mode to the first model, the transactional mode that you're uh model that you were talking about, or I was in rescuer mode, you know, where I was trying to do it for them and to find solutions and answer questions and all of that kind of good stuff. Uh and so um how did I break myself out of that cycle? Um, you know, you talked about coaching, Karen, and and that's you know, exactly what it was about. It was about, you know, thinking about my job in HR. Often it's the role of a coach. Um, you know, so sometimes people don't necessarily need an answer. They just want to download and you know, vent, and you just and they just want somebody that's objective that can just give them a safe space to do that. So they don't actually need a solution. So one of the first things I I learned was to actually ask them what they wanted. And a lot of the time it wasn't a solution. So that's the first thing is you know, it's a really simple question to ask, but we forget to ask it. And then I think the second thing is, you know, if they do want a solution, that is what they're looking for, then is it my you know, is it my place to provide the solution, or actually um do you know, is it better for me as an HR as an HR professional to coach that other person to help them find their own solution? Because if it's the solution that works for them, it's much better if they found it themselves. So it's so I think that's the thing I really learned and from looking at the, you know, and using those type sort of techniques and models is how do you, you know, how do you understand what it is they want from you, and then how do you coach them to help them find the right solutions for themselves rather than you taking all that emotional baggage and becoming that emotional container for them?

SPEAKER_01 19:59

Yeah, we talked about the emotional container last time, isn't it? And that goes back to our energy batteries and draining. Um, Brendan's saying he loves this model, one of his favourite for allowing reflection during a session. And I think, yeah, absolutely, what was going on, what what what seat did we sit in? What what might we have done differently if we'd had our time again?

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Absolutely. And that comes back to that point around how we might respond or react. Because actually, when you have an awareness of okay, if I'm in the perpetrator role, what's going on for me? What's happening, what's fizzing inside me? Is my blood am I is my blood pumping faster? Am I getting hotter? Like, what's that going on for me? And actually, if you can breathe and go, okay, there's something here. Actually, what asked some curious questions is my other thing. To your point, Michaela, which is actually just allow yourself a bit of space before you might get defensive or you might take on the issue, or you know, whatever. Give yourself a little bit of space just to think, what's actually happening here?

SPEAKER_03 21:07

Absolutely. Space is always really good, isn't it? You know, I think, and I think it's I would say it's about learning to be comfortable with that space because sometimes you've just got to pause and say nothing, haven't you? And you know, I had a director that I worked with, you know, when I was in retail, um, who would, you know, I would go in for it to a meeting with him. He could sometimes spend two or three minutes reflecting on what had been said, read you know, reading a report and then reflecting. And I we had to all learn to get really comfortable with that silence because he it was his space to reflect and think. And then it was okay, now I know what question I want to ask or how I want to move this forward. So he got it down to a fine art, but it really tested us in terms of finding that space. So I would say that's something to really practice is getting to feel really comfortable with holding. That space either for the other person so they can just think and reflect, or to give you that time and space as well.

SPEAKER_01 22:09

Which brings us on to our next point, which uh when we were talking about this, is do you feel sometimes in an HR capacity that you have to know everything? Are there any examples in your career that you are willing to share? Um I shared one with with you guys was uh when I'd gone in to talk to the MD about a particular thing, I think it was around bonus, and I didn't have the answer. But instead of doing the normal thing, which was tell you what, I'll go away and check. I decided to make it up on the spot and made myself look very silly and had to go away and check anyway. Um, and it still haunts me that that particular incident. So, are there any examples of things where you feel that you are under pressure to know the answer? Um, can you share any examples with our audience? Karen, do you want to jump into that one?

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, I think it's a brilliant question. Um, kind of links to the what I wish I could have known as for my younger self, actually. Um I think when you work in high-performing organisations with high-performing individuals, there there is an innate pressure that comes with that to build about how you build your credibility. Um, and I think there's also something that came up for me, which was I was the first in my family to go to university. Um, and the fact I ended up working where I worked, there was still quite a bit of how am I here in this environment. So that kind of imposter syndrome thing that's that sat quite heavily. And I used to do quite a lot of what you're describing, which is to just make noise in the hope that that would somehow make me seem like I knew what I was doing. And um I think the braver choice sometimes is to go, you've made some really excellent points that we haven't we haven't really given any consideration to yet, but this is why we're having this conversation. So I'm gonna go away and I'm gonna test this and I'm gonna, you know, da da da da da. And I think there's something about comp inner confidence, quiet inner assurance that says actually you don't have to know the answer to everything, and particularly when unknown things are coming up, like pandemics, for example. There is no playbook that we've got hidden away in our desks sometimes in HR for these weird and wonderful scenarios that come to us, and yet we're expected to know everything. I think sometimes there's something about being confident to be vulnerable, which might talk to psychological safety and and what's going on in your organization. But I think there is something, as I say, in a quiet confidence to be able to recognise your limits of competence, which we get taught a lot in coaching and therapy. Um, but interestingly, maybe we don't talk enough about that in other professions.

SPEAKER_03 25:06

Definitely. Well, I think when when we we sort of talked about this question, the the thing that came up for me was when I swapped from finance to HR. Um so and I was reflecting on, you know, I on a Friday I was a finance director, on a Monday I was an HR director, and everybody expected me to know as much on the Monday about HR as I did on the Friday about finance, and I've been working in finance for like 18, 19 years. Um, and obviously you there are things you know from you know being a line manager and all of that kind of stuff, but you there's so much that you don't know. And um, what was really helpful for me was I I kind of used my finance analogy and played it to HR because there was, you know, in finance, nobody expects you to be a treasury expert, a tax expert, you know, a financial accounting expert, a management accounting, a business partner, you know, and and and an audit expert, all of those type of things. You know, they're all specialisms within the function, and everybody knows that you know, you go you use those specialists. But I was reflecting that it didn't feel like it was the same in HR. So, you know, when I went into my my HR director job, you know, I had a whole team of people who were more junior than me, but they were far more competent and you know and knowledgeable and credible in HR than I was. Um, so I thought, how am I going to get myself up to speed? So I went to talk to you know all these very indifferent experts in their field. So I went to talk to the employee relate, you know, employer relations guy, and I went to speak to legal, and I went to speak to you know the recruitment team, and I went to speak to the you know talent and development team. And as I was doing that, I realised actually those guys are the experts. And one of the things about being resilient is knowing, you know, what are the resources that are available to you to use and when is a good time to ask for help? And that asking for help is a strength, not you know, not a weakness, if you know when is the right time to ask for it. So why wouldn't I use the experts in all of those different fields? So when I had that conversation with them and said, look, you know, can we talk about how we work together? They were absolutely delighted because you know, I was the only one that had come from outside of the function. And they were going, Well, I wish I wish some of the other HR directors did the same as you. And and I, you know, and I was forced into it because I didn't know as much, but actually it it allowed us to develop a really strong partnership and the really strong ways of working, and effectively became a blueprint for you know how to work going forward. So that's the thing that I would say is that you absolutely don't need to know everything, but you need to know people that do. So who are those, you know, what are the resources and the people around you that you can go to to ask those questions? Don't be afraid, be brave to say when that's the case, be brave to ask for help. Um, and you know, be brave to say, actually, it's not me, it's this person over here, but I'll go and talk to them and find out for you.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Yeah, it's it's okay to say, I don't know, isn't it? And why do we feel so vulnerable when we when we do that? Because in my situation, I had to go away and ask the question anyway, and then go back. It would have been much easier to go, I don't know. I'll just go and ask. But no, great. Thank you, ladies. Thank you for that. I can't believe we're nearly at time. So I'm going to just this happens every time, doesn't it? I'm gonna ask you for a top tip from from each of you. So is there anything I have to say that we've either picked up already, anything else that people might want to go away and have a look at, whether it's a model or thinking about uh different tips and techniques. What would you like to say to our audience today? Karen, do you want to jump into answer this one first?

SPEAKER_02 29:26

Yeah, it kind of builds on what we were just talking about, which is I think there's something about being really clear about what you are accountable and responsible for in your role and what you're not. Um, and quite often we can be made to feel accountable and responsible for everything, but perhaps there is a wider team of experts around you that you could talk to. Perhaps, you know, there are line leaders who should be having some of these conversations, not you, a common bugbear for all of us. Um, so really having front of mind, am I accountable or am I being made to feel accountable and responsible for this? Am I responsible and accountable for this? And if I'm not, how might I respond to that in a way that doesn't leave me hanging and carrying everything? And again, linked to what I talked about earlier, that then enabling yourself the space to respond and react. Sorry, react respond rather than react, then might deal with some of that accountability and responsibility piece.

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Perfect. Michaela, your top tip.

SPEAKER_03 30:30

Um, so I think sort of following on from that, um, I think it's you know, going back to what we what we've already said, but I think it's so important is you know reflect on what we've talked about with regard to not you know learning to say no or learning to say that's not me. Um so I think being brave enough, you know, and try it in a safe environment, you know, if it if you're if you're worried, try it in a safe environment. What's gonna be, you know, where where's who's a partner that you work with that you get on really well with, and you know, you could try you could test that with them. Because if you're clear about accountabilities and responsibilities, as Karen's just been saying, then it's you know, it's okay to then say, actually, that's not my area of expertise, but I can go and talk to somebody that is. So being brave enough to say that's not me, and being brave enough to, you know, to not just bludge it, because that's what that's what we all kind of want to go and do, isn't it? We react rather than respond, as you know, as as uh Karen's been saying. And I think the other thing is to think about the think of yourself as an energy battery. So when we've been talking about energy, you know, there's a really lovely little tool called the energy battery. Um, if you look on the resilience dynamic, um, their website, then it talks about it on there. Um and you can think about what gives you energy and what drains you of energy, and think about what you can do in the moment, what can you do, you know, you might not be able to do it in the moment or every day, but you can certainly do it sort of you know reasonably regularly, like weekly, and what might be some of the longer term things that give you that energy, and think about it from a work perspective as well as a home perspective.

SPEAKER_01 32:22

Perfect, thank you very much. We've gone over time as usual. So I hope that everyone's found uh this useful. Uh, if you are listening again, you're very welcome. Um, the next session um that we have the 14th of April, we are going to run a session called They Hired Me. So back on to the career insights sessions around stories and successes of real jobs um and uh real job searches, how uh how that they found the market and how that they found uh finding a job. So put that one in your diary for the 14th of April, one o'clock. So thanks very much for those who have joined us, and uh we'll see you all again next time.

SPEAKER_00 33:20

Thank you for listening to our podcast. We hope you enjoyed it. To find out more about 1080 and the services we offer, please go to www.ten80.co.uk. Thank you.