Ep 9. Nathaniel Morrison; Diversity in the industry & playing STEVIE WONDER!!

Hosted By Charlotte Neale. In this week's episode we are joined by the wonderful Nathaniel Morrison. Full of chaos, laughter and Important conversations. Talking about diversity in the Industry, education to playing Stevie Wonder in 'Dancing In The Street UK Tour', this week you are in for a treat!! 

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:10

Hello guys and welcome back to Life in the Wings podcast. I am joined by my gorgeous friend, Nathaniel Madison. How are you?

SPEAKER_03 0:22

Really blessed to be here. I'm so happy to be here.

SPEAKER_02 0:25

Honestly, I'm glad you're here. I literally said before the podcast, I have so many questions for you. You did. Because this man does bits. Bits, bobs, all over the shop.

SPEAKER_03 0:36

I love that. Bits and bobs.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

I'm a bits and bobs, man. You are. So we're gonna start the podcast as we always do each week with quick fire questions.

SPEAKER_03 0:44

Come through.

SPEAKER_02 0:45

AKA the 16 bar cut.

SPEAKER_03 0:47

Mighty god. We all we're very we all we know about the 16 bar cut. We're very aware with the 16 bar.

SPEAKER_02 0:53

Very aware. Okay, are you ready?

SPEAKER_03 0:55

I'm not. I'm not ready. As you can tell, I couldn't even like respond to you about the 16 bar cut. I'm just like, I'm so nervous. Why am I nervous?

SPEAKER_02 1:03

Don't be nervous.

SPEAKER_03 1:04

I don't know why. I'm excited. No, I'm not ready. Absolutely not ready.

SPEAKER_02 1:11

Let's take a breath.

SPEAKER_03 1:14

Let's go.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Okay. Musical or play?

SPEAKER_03 1:17

Musical.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Teaching or performing?

SPEAKER_03 1:20

Teaching.

SPEAKER_02 1:21

Oh I I'll put a pin in that and come back to it.

SPEAKER_03 1:25

And then my edge is gonna hate me for that.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Um full song or 32 bar cut.

SPEAKER_03 1:30

32 bar cut. Ain't nobody got time. Pocket sticking.

SPEAKER_02 1:35

Audition or self-tape?

SPEAKER_03 1:37

Audition.

SPEAKER_02 1:37

Okay. Original work or revival.

SPEAKER_03 1:40

Ooh, original work.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

Yeah, nice.

SPEAKER_03 1:43

Creative kind of guy.

SPEAKER_02 1:43

Yeah. Contemporary or legit.

SPEAKER_03 1:46

Legit. Old school, babe.

SPEAKER_02 1:49

Are you?

SPEAKER_03 1:50

I'm quite old school.

SPEAKER_02 1:51

Oh, I didn't know that.

SPEAKER_03 1:52

I fell into that when they um I was the cast as the role of Mr. Snow at school. And I just love the classical legit vibe. Don't get me wrong, you know, I got so much time for contemporary.

SPEAKER_02 2:03

Well, you've done a lot of contemporary music.

SPEAKER_03 2:05

That part, exactly. But if I had to choose my favourite vibe, it would be legit.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 2:13

Love contemporary, but I have so much respect and honour for legit.

SPEAKER_02 2:16

I love that because there's so many people in the industry that are just like belting, contemporary, but it's like who we need to not forget about legit.

SPEAKER_03 2:22

To be fair, I love the two of them. But if I had to make a choice, legit.

SPEAKER_02 2:25

Um comedy or drama?

SPEAKER_03 2:27

Comedy.

SPEAKER_02 2:28

Yeah, I knew that. And then just a fun one. Uh, do you prefer listening to music or podcasts?

SPEAKER_03 2:33

Music. Really? Actually, but I do love a podcast.

SPEAKER_02 2:36

What? You don't have to be a good one.

SPEAKER_03 2:37

I love a podcast. But uh, but I'm a big, big, fat music fan.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Are you one of those people that like you can't walk down the street without having your photos? I see, I can't resonate with that. I I barely listen to music. Isn't that really bad?

SPEAKER_03 2:51

I'm awful. I'm the guy that some people do this. I'm the guy that plays music whilst I'm showering.

SPEAKER_02 2:58

Do you know what I thought you were gonna tell me? I thought you were gonna say, I'm the guy that gets on the street on the tube and has their speaker out in my head. I thought that's where you were going with it.

SPEAKER_03 3:08

Not respect to those people because that's a huge thing to do.

SPEAKER_02 3:12

But also very bold, very brave. Someone done it on the bus the other day.

SPEAKER_03 3:16

Very antisocial, really.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Really antisocial, and like I feel awkward. Yeah, Joey. And you're like, mm-mm. But I feel really awkward when like we're just I think the other day I was on the bus and she was listening to I don't know whether it was like a podcast or the news or something, and we were all just listening with her.

SPEAKER_03 3:33

It was very Have it seen the clip. There's a clip where a guy sings like Brittany Spears, my loneliness is killing me. Then he left a pause for everyone on the bus to respond. Everyone went, what a way to get the community. This is becoming a thing. It's gonna get normalized if we're not careful. There's just gonna be things along the tube rides.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

Is it a thumbs up or thumbs down?

SPEAKER_03 3:56

It's a thumbs sideways.

SPEAKER_02 3:58

Oh, let us know in the comments if it's a thumbs up, thumbs down, or thumbs sideways.

SPEAKER_03 4:02

Is what I want to see. I want to see the comments.

SPEAKER_02 4:04

Okay, interesting.

SPEAKER_03 4:05

That part. So I'm saying that part. It's such a thing that I say this. What are you saying that part? That part. What does that mean? I agree.

SPEAKER_02 4:12

Is that like clocket?

SPEAKER_03 4:13

Yeah, clock it. Clock.

SPEAKER_02 4:15

That part.

SPEAKER_03 4:16

Maybe I should change it to clock it.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Clock. No, I feel like everyone's saying clocket.

SPEAKER_03 4:19

I know everyone is.

SPEAKER_02 4:20

Everyone's like, clock it, all the time. What's the thing that um charge it? Have you heard charge it?

SPEAKER_03 4:25

That's new to me. I'm old.

SPEAKER_02 4:26

No, people are being like, charge it. I think like it is what it is, charge it.

SPEAKER_03 4:29

Charge it. And I'm like, That's gonna take over that part, I think. Well it was on it was on Love Island. Right.

SPEAKER_02 4:34

And everyone's saying it and it got a bit jarring.

SPEAKER_03 4:36

I don't even know where I picked up that part from.

SPEAKER_02 4:39

He made up his own vocab.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

No, but don't think I did. I think everything is from that that show RuPaul's Drag Race.

SPEAKER_02 4:45

I can't get into it. I can't get into it. That's cool. Yeah. Some people were like, charge it.

SPEAKER_03 4:50

I've no, I just can't I can't get into it.

SPEAKER_02 4:56

I I I appreciate it, but I'm I find that you know when they have to like be nasty to each other, I'm too sensitive. I'm too sensitive. I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_03 5:06

No, I hear that.

SPEAKER_02 5:06

Right anyway, about you. About you. So let's go back to the begarnant. You trained at Mount View, which I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 5:15

Oh, yeah, I did.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

You trained, did I?

SPEAKER_03 5:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 5:19

How was that?

SPEAKER_03 5:20

Incredible, incredible. Yeah, for a variety of reasons, actually, because I'm a dude from Accock Screen Birmingham. Big up AG. Big up Birmingham. I always say to people, Accock Screen is the part that didn't make the cut for Solid Hole. Yeah, because I feel like as a child, Solid Hole just came about all of a sudden.

SPEAKER_02 5:36

Yeah, because I feel like everyone knows Soly Hole.

SPEAKER_03 5:38

Right.

SPEAKER_02 5:39

But where are you from Eacock?

SPEAKER_03 5:41

Ecock Screen.

SPEAKER_02 5:42

Never heard of it.

SPEAKER_03 5:42

Ecock's Green. And it's literally next to Solid Hole. And it's weird that like we're literally right next door. So it feels like. We didn't make the cut, literally.

SPEAKER_02 5:54

Different postcode.

SPEAKER_03 5:55

Went to a Solid Hole school. Langley.

SPEAKER_02 5:59

You crossed the barriers.

SPEAKER_03 6:00

Crossed the barriers. I did cross the barriers. They let me in.

SPEAKER_02 6:03

But they let me in. Inclusive.

SPEAKER_03 6:06

Thank you. Very grateful for that. But um yeah, like that whole posh area, they didn't want Ecuck Screen to be a part of it. So that's where we're at, but I'm proud to be from the ghetto.

SPEAKER_02 6:16

So you went to Mount View.

SPEAKER_03 6:18

Went to Mount View. That's what I was saying, sorry. So went to Mount View, and I was proud to go to Mount View because I'm from Acux Green, a very small kind of area of Birmingham. I didn't know much about musical theatre entirely, the way that other people who were at Mount View in my year did.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Oh yeah, some people literally go in like knowing everything. Knowing what shows were in what theatres, all those. I I remember being polite to my friend Charger. I'm gonna just name this podcast Charger. I remember, and it's so funny now, like knowing what we know now, but I remember my friend when I first first went to college, he was telling me about like all the shows in what theatres. And I remember thinking, how do you know what shows in what theatre? Like I especially because I'm from Plymouth, so like coming to London was like a once-a-year trip. Like, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 7:02

So I had like streams, fountains, if you like, pool of knowledge. These are the people that helped me. So you had your Aang Harold Walters, who I believe is a principal for stage coach in Cambridge right now. Oh no way, speaker up, beautiful soprano lady, a lover, a good friend of mine, um, and Alice Fern. People like Alice Fern, Emma Linda. She was in your ear. All in my ear. They were in my ear. Yeah. Oh my god. And so I actually gleaned from not only the classes, but them. Because they'd be like, do you not know who this person is or that person is? Like, what's your repertoire saying? I remember Alice took rap. She took me into a practice room and she introduced me to my famous, infamous audition song. I sing it everywhere. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 7:43

What is it?

SPEAKER_03 7:43

I'll be here from the world party. She introduced me to that, and and I decided that I was gonna be UK's well, wannabe Tay Diggs. Like, I am UK's wannabe Tay Diggs. That's it now. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_02 7:58

Oh my gosh, so she really took you under her wing.

SPEAKER_03 7:59

And like there was a lot of that, there was a lot of learning for me. Yeah, even though I went to stage culture as a kid and I did the various different things. I even went to a school of speech and drama, Catherine Sophia School of Speech and Drama. That in itself is a tongue twister.

SPEAKER_01 8:12

That sounds harsh.

SPEAKER_03 8:13

It was posh. It was because we we did the Lambda examinations and all of that, and I did my IDTA. Oh, I'm not even out of the way. Dance school. That's like your examinations for kids, uh like dance, dance examinations. I did all of that.

SPEAKER_02 8:28

So did you start quite late?

SPEAKER_03 8:30

I started kind of early-ish, but I didn't quite grasp what the world of musical theatre was.

SPEAKER_02 8:36

Sometimes it's like a hobby that you enjoy, and that's kind of in that environment, that's all you know.

SPEAKER_03 8:41

Yeah, it felt like there was a degree of separation between what I knew and what was.

SPEAKER_02 8:44

Oh, I love that degree of separation.

SPEAKER_03 8:46

Yeah, so I was I learned a lot when I was at Mount View. And I remember my audition, I fell in love with the place from then on because he had me running around the room singing anthem. Because I was very fortunate to have a singing teach. No madness!

SPEAKER_00 9:02

See, legit yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. I love it. Yes, okay, I'll give it you.

unknown 9:07

I'll give it you.

SPEAKER_03 9:09

So, like, I was I was doing that, and I was like, this feels weird, but it also feels great. And and what is this? And I just wanted more of that. And so fortunately, I got into the school and learned. Yeah, I learned.

SPEAKER_02 9:21

And you graduated and went straight into a job, right? I did. I've got here that you um were Stevie Wonder in dancing in the streets, and that was your debut, right? And it was a UK tour at the Cambridge Theatre as well. Yeah, yeah. How was that?

SPEAKER_03 9:36

It's I I that past tense word is so powerful because it is one to always reflect on.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:43

It is one that I'm just looking back and I'm like, pinch me, that's another one. That's a moment. Yeah, because I was like, well, what? I did that. Because I used to complain when I was at drama school.

SPEAKER_01 9:53

Oh really?

SPEAKER_03 9:54

Yeah, because I was the only black dude in the in the year.

SPEAKER_01 9:58

Interesting.

SPEAKER_03 9:58

And so it was all a bit of a culture shock to me, and there was a bit of imposter syndrome that I had to deal with. And so I was like, Well, where's the black stuff? Like, where's stuff that resembles me?

SPEAKER_02 10:11

Yeah, you know, stuff that you can relate to and see yourself as.

SPEAKER_03 10:14

Thanks to people like Alice Fern, who you know really hit the ground running, and she knew what was what when she was there, of course. I got to learn little things like that, and obviously, all the historical stuff that we did learn. Yeah, you know, when when everything was unveiled, I was like, oh, there's this show, and there's this guy called Clive Rowe, and you know what I mean? Oh, there's Clark Peters and who all these great people. So, um, what was I saying? I can't remember now.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Uh we were just talking about it, it was a moment when you went into Stevie Wonder.

SPEAKER_03 10:40

Yes, that was it. So I was like, I was like, oh yeah, I was complaining. I complained about the fact that there wasn't really a Motown type show. I was like, where's Stevie Wonder the musical? Yeah. At the time, Mamma Mia was happening. Mamma Mia the musical was happening, and at that point. And I was just like, well, is there anything that that I could aspire to be in?

SPEAKER_02 11:00

Yeah, that was gonna be my next question.

SPEAKER_03 11:02

So fancy that I was complaining about that, and then out of the blue, well not out of the blue, God would have it that he wanted to show me who he was by placing me in the role of Stevie Wonder in a Moletown show called dancing in the streets.

SPEAKER_02 11:17

Sorry, but that is clock it.

SPEAKER_03 11:19

Like, Jesus honestly, that's why I believe in God. Because I was like, I prayed.

SPEAKER_02 11:25

That was the moment.

SPEAKER_03 11:26

That was the moment. I prayed. I was like, wow, that is awesome.

SPEAKER_02 11:29

And you've done like I can't even name everything you've done. Like Moon on Rouge, Cry of Man, Waitress, Jersey Boys, Hairspray. Like, do you have obviously we could be here all day if we went through every single show you've been in? But do you have like, let's go through like milestones of your career that's led you to where you are? Like, what are some musicals that you're like, oh, this changed who I was, or you met some like amazing people, etc.

SPEAKER_03 11:54

Wow, but there's a few actually, so I'll I'll try and be quick for time. But um Sister Act was one of those big ones for me. Yes, I had a really tough time in Sister Act. Um just some personal stuff that I had to deal with. And it came right there and then. Again, God was just like, I'm with you, I got you. There you go, you can be in Sister Act with Whoopi Goldberg.

SPEAKER_02 12:17

You're lying.

SPEAKER_03 12:19

No lie. No lie. No lie. We were like the second cast.

SPEAKER_02 12:26

Also, what a show.

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 12:27

And I I'm so annoyed. Hello. I've never seen it, but I know the soundtrack, I've seen clips.

SPEAKER_03 12:32

I could see you in it yesterday. Oh definitely, I'm taking that!

SPEAKER_02 12:36

Take it. I can see you in it last year.

SPEAKER_03 12:37

Yeah, yeah, Sister Mary Patrick. No, not Sister Mary Patrick. What's the other one? Sister Mary Roberts.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

Is that the one that I know Mary Roberts?

SPEAKER_03 12:44

The life I never led. That's you, girl. I love it. That's you.

SPEAKER_02 12:49

Never talk back.

SPEAKER_03 12:50

Oh, cop see? Cast her. Cast her.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

I would love. Yeah. I would love. So that was really special to you.

SPEAKER_03 12:56

It's so special because um not only did I get to learn of the community of the West End world and and the people that you work with, they become your family. I learned that more so on there. I learnt it from dancing in the streets.

SPEAKER_02 13:10

Because you spent a year with these people. Come on. You spent a year in the street.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Come on, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

They become family.

SPEAKER_03 13:15

100%. At the time, I needed my theatre family then to support me. Dancing in the streets was amazing because I was amongst my own.

SPEAKER_04 13:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Which was what I was crying out for when I was at Mount View. So I was taught the ropes. I had my my all my learning because I always say to my clients and to people that I teach and whatnot, you learn on the job, really. Of course, you learn at drama school, and thank God for drama schools and institutions for training. But the real work comes in when you're actually working. It's like someone goes, You can't do that. It's like don't say that. Don't go there. Don't drink that. Don't drink too many of those.

SPEAKER_02 13:49

Don't yeah. It's like when you're um when you learn to drive, I always say like you never really learn to drive until you're actually on the road, you've passed your test, you're on your own. Like you've got someone guiding you, and it's the same with drama school. You've got someone guiding you, but then you're you have to fend for yourself and you have to learn. Yeah, and you're like a small fish in a big pond.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Agreed.

SPEAKER_02 14:07

And you know what? It's actually not as scary as what I think um drama schools make out to me. From my from my experience, no, likewise, I would say the same as I'm gonna do it. I remember in drama school teachers would be like, we'd do like an audition prep class, and then like you'd go up and do your song that you prepared, and then they'll be like, Can you just give me your best eight beats tap, please? And I remember thinking, No, in front of everyone, not in tap shoes. Someone's like, Yeah, no problem, just giving us like a little tap routine. And I remember thinking, that's really scary. Like you could literally go and be asked to like yodel for all I know. And then actually you go into the audition, they ain't got time to see you yodel or tap. They're literally like, do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 14:46

Well, I don't know, because oh gosh, I have an experience that I could share with you. Uh and I'm gonna I'm gonna at this point I'm gonna big up my brother, Dex Lee.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 14:57

So what if I was to tell you that part of my five guys named Mo Audition was them putting me alongside I can't believe this, Dex Lee, who is like a champion at tap. He's he like he's someone who I consider to be dripping with talent. A lovely guy, dripping with talent.

SPEAKER_01 15:16

Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 15:17

What if I was to tell you they put me alongside him and and they were like, okay, guys, improvise.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

So did you have tap shoes on?

SPEAKER_03 15:24

Uh yes. So you were in a tap call. All of a sudden, the vocabulary of tap left me immediately.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Just at the very thought that this gentleman who literally looked like he gave birth to the very genre of tap, like was doing the most.

SPEAKER_00 15:43

Giving rhythm, giving beats, giving arms.

SPEAKER_03 15:46

Hot ball change? Shuffle, hot ball change. Uh let's try a time step.

SPEAKER_02 15:51

Like, it was not not even, probably not even in time, dare I say. Like, because I just I've been there.

SPEAKER_03 15:57

I don't to this day, I I strongly believe that that part of the audition had nothing to do with me getting a job. Could never be.

SPEAKER_02 16:03

Still booked it.

SPEAKER_03 16:04

Still booked it, booked him blessed, praise him.

SPEAKER_02 16:06

But but but but what I will say is I feel like at drama school they made it sound as if like your first audition, they're gonna go in, ask you to do three cartwheels. But I guess uh having that preparation makes it then easier to go into the audition because then it's like, oh actually it's not that bad. It's not that scary.

SPEAKER_03 16:23

Yeah, agreed, and I think that's why they do it. Yeah, that's part of the preparation, as you said. You know, so when you do go in there, you're equipped so that you're able to actually stand. Because they used to say to us as well, know everything about whatever you're going up for.

SPEAKER_02 16:39

Yeah, choreographer, director, who did the lighting design, who did the sounds. Family wards. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:45

Revivals.

SPEAKER_00 16:46

You you name it like this is so funny when you think about it.

SPEAKER_03 16:51

Right, because I've we've got to learn the material they ask us to prepare.

SPEAKER_00 16:54

Five songs, two songs.

SPEAKER_03 16:55

Make sure our song that we're gonna bring in, our our own song is good to go.

SPEAKER_02 16:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:59

If there's some sides, we've got to get those sides down packed.

SPEAKER_02 17:02

And you want me to read the side.

SPEAKER_03 17:03

And then we need to know everything about them. Great.

SPEAKER_02 17:06

And then when you first graduate, you do all that, and then over time you're like, oh, actually, no, they've they've not got time to ask how many revivals the show's had or whatever.

SPEAKER_03 17:15

But I can't lie to you, there has been moments where I've scared me! No, no, no, no, no, I promise where you think I'm gonna go with this, I'm not. Okay. There have been moments where I've gotten the nerve, I'd be like, oh my god, what if they do ask me?

SPEAKER_01 17:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

And I'll start doing some research.

SPEAKER_01 17:29

Outside the room.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

Yeah, yeah, I'm just like, okay, so what what awards did they get? Okay, okay, who's this? And and yeah, I have to also sometimes can't believe I'm saying this on air, kind of thing, but sometimes I I I I'm not quite familiar with the people that might be in the room. So I have to I research them and the pictures. I go straight to images on Google.

SPEAKER_01 17:49

Oh, do you?

SPEAKER_03 17:53

You know, because there's some people that you've not yet met and that you don't really know about.

SPEAKER_02 17:57

Oh, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 17:57

And it's exciting because it opens another door for you to learn more about different people who are working in the creative side of the team.

SPEAKER_02 18:03

I do you know what? I'll actually be honest with you, I've never even When going into auditions, I can't even lie, I don't even think about the team.

SPEAKER_03 18:12

I'm like so natural. I think a lot of people don't think about the team. But it's something about it.

SPEAKER_02 18:18

Not in a rude way, but in a sense of like, have I got all my stuff done? Am I prepared? Obviously, I know. Your focus is particularly. I know who the casting directors are, I'm not that clear, but in the sense of like who specifically is on the panel, that's actually something that now I've learned that I'm like, oh, maybe I should research that to be more familiar.

SPEAKER_03 18:33

Well, you never know you're gonna meet them again and what other opportunities they might have in store for you.

SPEAKER_02 18:37

That's true. So let's talk about let's talk about teaching.

SPEAKER_03 18:40

Okay, let's talk about teaching.

SPEAKER_02 18:42

Let's unpin that pin.

SPEAKER_03 18:43

Oh my.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

So you your passion lies probably more with not I wouldn't say more with teaching than performing, but you are very passionate about teaching.

SPEAKER_03 18:51

My passion for teaching has grown and developed somewhat.

SPEAKER_02 18:54

Because I can't remember if we've already said this. We met at West End MT, which was um W E M T. W-E-M-T, which you still work as. Are you are you a patron?

SPEAKER_03 19:06

I'm a patron, I'm a proud patron.

SPEAKER_02 19:07

He's a patron, slash uncle. Yeah, yeah, Uncle Nate. Um so I went there for a term, and that's when is that where we met?

SPEAKER_04 19:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

But now I'm thinking, I think I saw you in Five Guys Name Mo. Because I saw it, and I must have seen you. What theatre was it at?

SPEAKER_03 19:24

It was a pop-up Marble Arch theatre. Yes, yes, yes, yes.

SPEAKER_02 19:28

Oh my gosh, okay. See how the world works.

SPEAKER_03 19:31

I tell you, I tell you, it's weird. It's too small.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

It is too small.

SPEAKER_03 19:36

It's tiny.

SPEAKER_02 19:36

And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:37

That's crazy that you saw me there.

SPEAKER_02 19:39

Yeah, I did. So yeah, talk to me about how you got into teaching. Because also, as well, on West End MT, I'm always like following their TikToks, and there's always you like someone singing, you're like throwing your shoe on the floor, like you're the biggest hype man, which is what I loved about you. Like that's what I loved about you. I was like, he's got me. He's got me.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Thank you.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

So yeah, talk to me about teaching.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Um, yes, so I got into it from a very young age, actually. Uh I was very fortunate to have my work experience following my singing teacher in Birmingham around, who went to Birmingham Conservatoire. A beautiful classical singer and teacher. And so I went around and and I sat in some of her classes, and then I went to the Birmingham Conservatoire and watched her teacher teach her. I watched my teacher be taught. I was still ganged about that. I was still like, what?

SPEAKER_01 20:30

What an effect.

SPEAKER_03 20:31

It was crazy.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_03 20:34

It was it was crazy, what an experience to have, especially as a young person aspiring to go into the industry and and who was interested in the voice and the singing. So that's kind of how that started. And then I went to stagecoach, and then after stagecoach, I somehow ended up working alongside her, alongside my singing teacher, uh, Sam Lewis. Um, and then ended up working at stagecoach. Uh teaching a stagecoach. And I must have been like early, like in 18, 17, 18, round about them, them age there, like that age, them age there. Um so yeah, like it started from young and it's just developed, and I've just done a lot of uh workshops. I got into the world of taking doing workshops after I'd done a few musicals and stuff, and realised that there's a world where people do workshops.

SPEAKER_02 21:24

I feel like you really uh you like to nurture talent as well. Yeah, and you know.

SPEAKER_03 21:31

Which is what I think I'm called to do on this earth.

SPEAKER_02 21:33

So also not not only talent, but passion.

SPEAKER_03 21:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:37

And when when there's like a young child who you can just see the passion in them, especially at West N MT, because you've got people as young as like what, like 14 years old or something?

SPEAKER_03 21:48

Well, younger than that. Yeah, much younger than that. Oh my gosh, yeah, yeah. Because you've got the 10 year olds almost like from like seven, eight.

SPEAKER_02 21:55

And some of these 10 year olds know next level. Like next.

SPEAKER_03 22:01

They make me want to stop. Seriously.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

I'm like, I could not like genuinely, I'm not just saying this, I couldn't do what they do what they do at their age. I couldn't do it. At 10 years old.

SPEAKER_03 22:12

Some of the stuff that they do I can't do now.

SPEAKER_02 22:14

On 10 years old, I was putting a wedgie out on stage. Like, you know, genuinely, like, I was literally like on the stage, I put that a wedge out, like into the audience.

SPEAKER_03 22:21

Like, I can the presence that they have is is insane.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Um you also are an agent.

SPEAKER_03 22:29

I am.

SPEAKER_02 22:30

How did that come about?

SPEAKER_03 22:32

So, oh, that's a good question. Um there was a moment in my career where I developed uh a deep interest in what my actual agents were doing at the time.

SPEAKER_01 22:43

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:44

At the time. Um I was very blessed to have old, what I consider to be old school agents.

SPEAKER_01 22:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 22:51

Starting off like they were your traditional big time glossy agents. Every other um sentence included darling, they referred to you as darling, all of that, you know, and and and I was amongst people like Barbara Windsor on the books. You know, there were some incredible celebrities that I was alongside. Um the agency eventually changed hands, and I developed an interest to find out what was going on behind the scenes. I got nosy basically.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

So I had some time. As you should though, like we are we we shouldn't like we should want to know what happened behind the scenes. It's so interesting as well.

SPEAKER_03 23:29

It really is, I have to tell you. So um I applied to a few agencies in the Midlands when I was taking time out back in my family home. Uh and one of them eventually got back to me and and said, Well, look, you know, we're not looking for an intern, but we should have a chat. So I was like, Cool. I met with um my now head agent boss, uh Rob Wilkinson, and uh we discussed uh the prospects of being an agent and he identified that I had a lot of network, a lot of connections in the industry.

SPEAKER_02 24:02

Um having Which is important to have as an agent.

SPEAKER_03 24:05

That's so important. That's literally what it comes down to. You know, a lot of people say it's not what you know, it's who you know. Oh yeah, you know, and I think that but that's partly true.

SPEAKER_01 24:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Um so yeah, we had a good chat. I was nervous at the time because I was like, yeah, but what if like all those beautiful cast and director people who I consider to almost be family now, those of that have cast me, see me as a weirdo all of a sudden. They're like, what are you doing?

SPEAKER_02 24:25

The biggest thing in what you've just said is what if. Because what if not?

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Well, that was the thing. That was the thing. The what if not became it materialized because what happened was um I started off as a creative consultant for fear of the industry not accepting me as an agent who also performed. Very true.

SPEAKER_02 24:53

But like that's crazy to me, and that's something like in everyday life that I try and not um uh allow to Hindi. Yeah, and I try to feel the fear and do it anyway. I mean, it's tough because as humans, we do care what people think, and we do want people's acceptance. And like one of my biggest fears is like, are people gonna think like what a weirdo? Like, but like how many times I look at someone else and think, what a weirdo? Hardly ever.

SPEAKER_03 25:21

Hardly ever.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 25:23

You see that? So the crux to the end of the story with that is that basically I realize the majority of my friends were doing it.

SPEAKER_02 25:30

But now nowadays, like, people aren't just performers anymore, people are performance. They're assistant casting directors, they're agents, they're podcast hosts. You know what I mean? Come through creativity because it's another outlet.

SPEAKER_03 25:44

Hello.

SPEAKER_02 25:44

It's another outlet, it's another way to get our creative juices flowing, and we're not just waiting.

SPEAKER_03 25:48

Come on, we're you're talking to me.

SPEAKER_02 25:50

We're taking sorry I got you a bit. We're not just waiting, we're not just waiting for that next audition, we're not just waiting for the next email. We're doing. We're doing and by doing that out of pure sincerity, it then provides opportunities. One of the things that we're doing. Welcome to my TED Talk.

SPEAKER_03 26:07

You might as well.

SPEAKER_02 26:08

I'm passionate though, I'm passionate about this interview. I'm passionate about life.

SPEAKER_03 26:12

That's what I love about you. I just share passion.

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Yeah, we're doing it. Oh, like give it to me.

SPEAKER_03 26:18

And and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there as well that are equally as passionate.

SPEAKER_00 26:21

100%.

SPEAKER_03 26:21

And hopefully, this is doing something for those people that might be even struggling.

SPEAKER_02 26:25

Like, my one of my biggest goals is there might be one person that is watching this and who is like a performer who's maybe like worried to email someone or worried to do this or just needs confidence. And I want this to be like, we see you, we we're here for you.

SPEAKER_03 26:43

We do see you, we are here for you.

SPEAKER_02 26:45

Yeah, we hear it, do it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Amen to that.

SPEAKER_02 26:48

Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 26:49

You done said it earlier, feel the fear. Fear is a terrible thing, yeah. And do it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 26:54

I do it all the time.

SPEAKER_03 26:55

But that fearful energy can really transform into something very powerful.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Because I I have friends outside this industry who feel the fear and don't do it, and I see how limited, I see how limited they can make their life because they let and it's and it's obviously that's so normal, but they let the anxiety um tell them where they're going, basically. When actually I I remember something really random and really poignant in my life. I was about seven years old, eight years old, and I was at this um like theme park type thing, that was this death slide, and I remember being at the top of the death slide being like, I can't do it, like there's no way I can do this, like there's no way, and I remember feeling so scared, like it's too high. I was picturing me going down and my body coming off and then slapping it, all this stuff, right? And then I just thought, Charlotte, just do it. I did it and I was on that death slide again and again back 20 times, having the best like day of my life. But if I hadn't have done that, I wouldn't have known how fun it was gonna be. And you can take that into anything in life. Like if you just do it, if you do it and it's scary, you don't like it, don't do it again.

SPEAKER_03 28:11

Don't do it again.

SPEAKER_02 28:11

But majority of the time, if it's something you want to do and you're scared, you will enjoy it. I don't know who I think I am. Jesus is with us today because I don't know who I think I am.

SPEAKER_03 28:22

He's with us, he's with us.

SPEAKER_00 28:23

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 28:24

It's funny because I had a similar experience just recently at Coco K. Royal Caribbean. Coco!

SPEAKER_00 28:30

Bum, bum, bum, co-coe!

SPEAKER_03 28:33

You know it because you've done the Royal Caribbean. So I went and I had the same experience on them big water slides, you know what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

No, I know exactly what's going on.

SPEAKER_03 28:43

So you were speaking, and I was like, oh my god, I see myself doing that just the other day.

SPEAKER_00 28:47

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Because I don't do them kind of craziest like you see how wiggly and squiggly it is on the way.

SPEAKER_02 28:52

Me and adrenaline, don't go. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 28:55

I was very adrenalized that day.

SPEAKER_02 28:58

Did you do it though? I did it today. Did you enjoy it?

SPEAKER_03 29:00

I did several. No! What are you talking about?

SPEAKER_02 29:02

There we go. There we go.

SPEAKER_03 29:03

Feel the fear and do it anyway.

SPEAKER_02 29:05

That I'm gonna literally like caption that. Feel the fear and do it anyway.

SPEAKER_03 29:08

I feel like that's the subtext to all of what we're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 29:10

Let's talk about. So, have you had moments of as we call it being unemployed in this industry? Yeah. And if you have, what do you do with your time? What do you do to stay motivated? Do you go to classes? Do you do you carry on learning? Like, kind of what do you do? Muggle jobs? Like, talk to me about the space in between.

SPEAKER_03 29:30

I mean, you've answered the question already with all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 29:32

But talk to me about it.

SPEAKER_03 29:34

That's what we do. I'll talk to you about it. So um, I'm a creative kind of guy, I can't sit still. So uh a good friend of mine, Anton Stevens, big up Anton. Picking up a lot of people on your own.

SPEAKER_01 29:44

As we should.

SPEAKER_03 29:45

Uh, he encouraged me. He said, When you're not employed, employ yourself.

SPEAKER_00 29:48

Ooh.

SPEAKER_03 29:49

Made you put down your mug.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

When you're not employed, employ yourself.

SPEAKER_03 29:54

I want one of these. Um let me know how much it's gonna cost. Thanks. Yeah, I love it. When you're not employed, employ yourself. So I got I I went to um a Titus Burgess concert, and this is another pinch me moment. Some people may know. Uh, he invited me on stage to sing with him in the concert. And I sang with him, and it was a real blessed, anointed moment. I sang his eyes on the sparrow with him, and it's on YouTube, and you know, I still I I love the fact that it was recorded because it's like, did that even happen?

SPEAKER_04 30:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 30:25

Anyway, afterwards, um, he offered to see me and we had a chat, and he was like, Well, what are you doing? Like, do you have a show? And I was like, No. Nope. He was like, Okay, so why don't you have a show? And I was like, I don't know. Yeah, he was like, You need to have a show. You need to have a cabaret. As in my life, have a one-man show, a one-man show.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Come on, have a one-man show.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

I've said it to you.

SPEAKER_02 30:49

Yes, you did. Oh my god, you did.

SPEAKER_03 30:51

I've said it to you.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, it's a scary thing.

SPEAKER_03 30:53

Get the one-man show going. And and hey, it was a scary thing for me. And I I heeded his advice.

SPEAKER_02 30:59

So, did you do it?

SPEAKER_03 30:59

Yes, I've got my own one-man show.

SPEAKER_02 31:02

I didn't know it was.

SPEAKER_03 31:06

See what I did there. Iconic, see what I did there, see what I did there.

SPEAKER_02 31:09

Yeah. Oh wow. So, can you take that anywhere? Like you can.

SPEAKER_03 31:13

I've taken it.

SPEAKER_02 31:14

Wow. Everywhere.

SPEAKER_03 31:15

Yeah. Yeah. I want to get it on the cruise ships at some point. It'll be really cool.

SPEAKER_02 31:18

Oh my god, that's insane.

SPEAKER_03 31:20

But I've done a lot of venues in around London, central London.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

So on your downtime, you've put work into that to create something else.

SPEAKER_03 31:27

Yeah, I do cabarets, I teach, I I do if there's a muggle job that I can pick up, I'll do the muggle job.

SPEAKER_02 31:33

Do you ever do like um do you ever do classes like at like pineapple or something? Do you?

SPEAKER_03 31:38

Yes, I do. I I I of course, you have to. You have to keep on top of it every now and then. This is a sad.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Not the split sole, not have those two words.

SPEAKER_03 31:48

More ladoukas nowadays, folks. No, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 31:52

That this is another thing. No, I just saw my trainers. This is another thing of fill the fear and do it anyway. So I had a huge fear of pineapple.

SPEAKER_04 32:00

Right.

SPEAKER_02 32:01

Dance classes, people being in their fishnets, ladooking, giving it. And um, I challenged myself to do one dance class a week.

SPEAKER_00 32:10

Good.

SPEAKER_02 32:11

I'm gonna shout him out. I go to George Beats tap on a Monday. When I tell you I feel so blessed that I have found a class that I feel safe in, that I feel supported in, that I feel I can be myself in. Because I've been to classes where it's honestly, it feels like it's a front.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

Intimidating.

SPEAKER_02 32:33

Yes, and it feels like an audition. And that's another moment, a circle of feel the fear and do it anyway. Because I did. And don't get me wrong, I stand at the back.

SPEAKER_03 32:44

That's okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:44

I jam, but I have the best time.

SPEAKER_03 32:47

But you're still and you're working on your skill at the same time. Right? It's a blessing.

SPEAKER_02 32:51

Yeah, so and you go to classes as well.

SPEAKER_03 32:53

I do, I go to classes. It just shows.

SPEAKER_02 32:59

Yeah, it just shows though, like even um successful people, whatever we think success is, but even people that are like employed in this industry still have to go to class and work on their craft.

SPEAKER_03 33:11

If you're successful, you have to remain successful.

SPEAKER_01 33:15

Right.

SPEAKER_03 33:16

So so um what is uh we have a slogan in my church, what is something like what is obtained by prayer must be remained. Must be remained by prayer. What does that mean? Maintained by prayer. What what you gain through prayer, you've got to maintain it through prayer.

SPEAKER_01 33:31

Oh, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_03 33:33

So there's there's a bit of church for y'all there.

SPEAKER_01 33:34

Because otherwise you lose it.

SPEAKER_03 33:35

There you go. So we don't want to lose it. And even even though we think, well, I've been successful, I've I've been in a big show just now and I'm on it, I'm still on it. It's not gonna leave me. Oh, my skill ain't gonna leave me. It does, it does, it wilts.

SPEAKER_02 33:48

It does.

SPEAKER_03 33:48

If you don't nurture it, it's like a plant, you've got to keep nurturing it to help it to grow.

SPEAKER_02 33:52

I was in the finals 42nd Street years ago. Do you think I'd get there now? Probably not. That's my effort. Because I went to my first SMTAP and I was like, whoa, I thought I always had it in my back pocket. No, I didn't. I mean, don't get me wrong, I wasn't like, you know, two left feet, but like I lost a lot of the ability and like the the intricacy, which is why I'm like, I need to continue working on that.

SPEAKER_03 34:14

You keep going to George Beat, no problem. Yeah, 42nd Street comes along, you'll be fantastic. And even if you don't get that role, you walk out feeling better about yourself than if you didn't work on your skill before you went into the audition.

SPEAKER_02 34:26

There's no way I'd want to do a tap audition without doing classes now, and I've learned that, and that's do you know what I mean? That's something that I've learned.

SPEAKER_03 34:31

There you go.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

So we are about to go on. Covering a lot of ground, this is great. I know, I love it. I'm sweating because I'm getting excited. Um, we're about to go into our next section. It's called Backstage Drama.

SPEAKER_03 34:41

I like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:43

Um also I need to remember my dad, who watches all my pods, Charlotte. You need to slow down on your speech.

SPEAKER_03 34:51

Well, I'm just as bad.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

I get so excited.

SPEAKER_03 34:54

Same.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

That I'm same. So I'm sorry, I just get excited, guys. It's great. Um I wanna know, thanks. I wanna know if you have anything funny, embarrassing, unhinged that is like happened in this industry for you.

SPEAKER_03 35:11

Funny. Um actually. So Joseph and his amazing technical dream coat. Wow, you see, I just did it. Joseph and his amazing technicolor dream coat.

SPEAKER_04 35:24

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 35:25

I was one of the brothers, fortunate to be one of the brothers in that production. And I remember though there was a particular moment when I was sharing this with Lee Mead the other day, my brother.

SPEAKER_02 35:37

First off, when I was younger, I was a huge Lee Mead fan. I mean, I'll probably say I'm. Oh my god, and um my friend did a show with him. This was years ago now, when I was a youngster. Yeah, and um, I got a video of him being like, Hi Charlotte, I've heard you're a fan. What darling? What name?

SPEAKER_03 35:58

He's and he hasn't changed.

SPEAKER_02 35:59

How kind is that?

SPEAKER_03 36:00

He's just one of the most beautiful people I know. He's an awesome person. So uh I was sharing this with him the other day because we did something for West NMT similar to this.

SPEAKER_01 36:08

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_03 36:09

And um there was a uh there's a scene where we come forward for the dreams are more than crystal clear, the writing's on the wall, and we also put we charge towards the centre, right? And it's on like the lip of the front of the stage, and it's got like a little bend, but you can still walk on it, and we're in these big, massive cowboy type boots, of course. I've gone to do it well. Gravity said, Where are you going? Gravity said, Where are you going? You belong down here. I said, Hold on a minute, I gotta try and get across the stage. So my heel, I slid on my heel and I was practically horizontal, it felt like. I thought any minute now I'm I'm gonna go, like drop on my back. I'm supposed to drop on my back again. That's why I believe in God. All of a sudden I managed to get up last minute.com for the drip. Anyone seeing that must have been like this person is not a person. That part boom. I was supposed to drop.

SPEAKER_02 37:13

Did you make your cue though?

SPEAKER_03 37:14

I made my cue. I don't know how I managed it, but I made my cue.

unknown 37:19

That's hilarious.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Another funny time was when I was doing Panto Genius just come to me. And there was ice, but basically, you know the the smoked ice of the smoke. Yeah, they had the smoke machine going and uh it must have all landed something to do with the leak of the smoke machine, and it made the floor extremely wet and slippy. I got these big platform boots on. We went ice skating.

SPEAKER_00 37:42

Did you?

SPEAKER_03 37:46

You try like being like genie doing all of that, and you're like all of a sudden All of a sudden I actually was funny. I would actually want to be funny to make the floor. Like, yeah, that's hilarious. In the scene, I got so frustrated, I just fell on the floor and I took off my boots and I tried to do it barefooted.

SPEAKER_02 38:07

No, you didn't.

SPEAKER_03 38:10

We couldn't get through the rest of the scene. It took like 10 minutes to recover.

SPEAKER_02 38:13

Because at that point, the audience is with you. Do you know what I mean? The audience the audience is laughing with you, they're on side with you.

SPEAKER_03 38:20

And I think some of them thought that it was part of the show.

SPEAKER_02 38:23

Oh no way!

SPEAKER_03 38:24

I think so.

SPEAKER_02 38:25

There's stuff like that that I've seen that's happened, and I'm like, is that actually part of the show or is it not?

SPEAKER_03 38:29

That part that was one of those moments.

SPEAKER_02 38:31

I love that.

SPEAKER_03 38:32

And then the same show, uh, I was too busy chatting downstairs. Yeah. Because you have to go. It was at the uh St. Auburn Urban Arena, I believe it was. And in the Urban Arena, you've got some stairs to get up. Okay to go to the stairs.

SPEAKER_02 38:45

You're downstairs. Downstairs chatting in.

SPEAKER_03 38:49

You know, the tanoy, usually my ears inclined to the tanoy to know when my next cue is.

SPEAKER_02 38:53

You were locked into this conversation.

SPEAKER_03 38:55

And locked in and then all of a sudden I was like, hold on a minute, where?

SPEAKER_02 39:01

That's me.

SPEAKER_03 39:02

Oh, I ran up the stairs, ran up the stairs, and and the hilarious thing is apparently they could hear everything. Because your mic was on! Was on. I was like, oh my god, oh my god, oh no, good, oh god, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, oh no, no, no!

SPEAKER_02 39:21

Oh my gosh, that's my biggest fear is missing my queue and the stage has been empty and it's supposed to be me.

SPEAKER_03 39:27

And of course the dame was like, well, it's nice that you can come and join us. It's best that you can make it.

SPEAKER_02 39:32

Did you forget what you're gonna show? I was on the interval.

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Rips me for the rest of the show.

SPEAKER_02 39:36

Oh, that's hilarious then. Wait. I love these funny moments.

SPEAKER_03 39:40

So there's there's a lot of funny moments there.

SPEAKER_02 39:41

Do you have any um unhinged things of like, I've really I was saying to this this to you before when we were like going through the questions. I really want someone to like tell me because I've I think I've said this in a pod before. I've had um I've known of people that have like changed an email that someone else has got and like put their own name and gone to the audition and be like, oh, I've got an audition for this. And then I mean, like, I'm not has anyone done anything unhinged? I'm like, come on, surely something has.

SPEAKER_03 40:08

So here we go. Here's the unhinged.

SPEAKER_00 40:10

Okay, okay, because I live for these.

SPEAKER_03 40:12

And this is a kind of like a sweet one, really. Because um I was offered to audition for Porgy and Best at the Savoy Theatre back in the day, and I was ill, I was in Liverpool doing a show, and I I I felt ill, I wasn't well at all, and so I missed the audition. And so um the next day I felt better, got better, and everything, and I spoke to my agents. I was like, I'm so sorry, I weren't able to to obviously attend the audition. Uh, I know you've explained to them that I was ill and stuff. Is there any chance that I could maybe still be seen? Are they are they doing any other any other auditions? I really, really want to be seen for this. I really want to go up for it, I'd really appreciate it. They said no, they said, well, no, they're not seeing anyone now. That's it. Like you missed your opportunity, unfortunately, one and done. So um it turned out that Tell us what you did. As God would have it, there was uh a girl that I was working with on that particular production who knew the choreographer.

SPEAKER_01 41:13

Oh, so you were like, I've got to be a big one.

SPEAKER_03 41:15

I will unveil the name of the choreographer because he's infamous. Um, and so I said to her, I beg ya, I beg, give me that number. I said, give me that number.

SPEAKER_00 41:26

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 41:27

I weren't joking. It's like as if I knew I was supposed to be in that production. I said, I need his number. She was like, Yeah, man, cool. So she gave me the number and I said, I text him.

SPEAKER_02 41:37

Not the WhatsApp.

SPEAKER_03 41:38

Yeah. Hi, Jason Pennycook. You don't know me, but I was supposed to have auditioned for Poor Game Best. I missed it because I was unwell. I'm just wondering if there's any other days that you're doing because I desperately would love to have an opportunity to be seen.

SPEAKER_00 41:55

I love this. Unhinged. I love it.

SPEAKER_03 41:59

His response was, yeah, there are other days.

unknown 42:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:04

Oh, you're like, I think they were just moving towards the finals. So he said, This is a day, but he said you've missed the um the teaching of the routine.

SPEAKER_04 42:13

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 42:13

So you'd have to come and try and pick up quickly and and you know get it going. So I was like, Yes, whatever. Thank you. What day? Contacted my agents, we fixed that. And uh I went and I thought. I thought when I walked in, there was a gentleman by the name of Tim Walker Freighter, still a good friend of mine to this day. Uh meeting him for the first time there, and I was he was there early with like me, and I was like, hi my bro, look, this is my first audition today. I know that there's been um a session before now. Apparently, you've learned a routine. What would it take for me to to to give you to go through the routine with me, please?

SPEAKER_01 42:53

Oh my gosh, wow.

SPEAKER_03 42:54

He was like, No, no, worries, let's let's do it. So he taught me some of the routine, and while he was teaching me some of the routine, the people just kept coming in and coming in and coming in. I counted at least almost like a hundred people in that hall.

SPEAKER_01 43:07

No, a hundred people.

SPEAKER_03 43:09

Yeah, it was the American church.

SPEAKER_01 43:10

Wow.

SPEAKER_03 43:11

It was the American church, Tottenham Court Road. So um I was like, okay, okay. He's and and I I I I barely picked up what he was trying to teach because I was so panicked and nervous. Of course. People coming in and stretching and looking at it's funny to be like, what's going on there?

SPEAKER_02 43:26

Yeah, and also because we got your first audition for it, you'd known that other people weren't for it, you knew that you went like a roundabout way to get there. There were so many things going on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:34

So I did the best I could.

SPEAKER_02 43:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 43:37

And it got to a bit where there's a jazz split leap jump. Well, I do love those, not anymore. Well, I knew now I'm now uh moving on in age, shall we say, so the jazz split leap jump isn't quite as high as it used to be. Got you. But I went in on that, did that, like nailed that part, I think, and um just picked up some of the rest of the routine. And you know, we were broken down into smaller groups, and I just did the best I could, did the best I could, did. The best I could, and then they were said, Okay, guys, we're gonna do some cuts. And I was like, Here we go. That's that's I'm done.

SPEAKER_01 44:06

That's it, I'm gonna because I you know I've back to Liverpool I go.

SPEAKER_03 44:09

Back to Liverpool, I go. Called out some names.

SPEAKER_01 44:13

You were on there.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

My name was called out. I was like, Oh my, and they called us out to sing.

SPEAKER_00 44:18

And you're like, I've got there.

SPEAKER_03 44:20

This is my thing. Like, I love like if anyone was to ask me, I'm a singer, yeah, yeah, yeah. Dancer actor type person, you know. So or singer actor dancer more so than anything just to dance into. But um, yeah, so I was like, yes, and I sang for them, and it went really well. It went well, and I I got the job.

SPEAKER_02 44:37

Isn't that I got the job unhinged?

SPEAKER_03 44:40

What got the job?

SPEAKER_02 44:41

Isn't that crazy how they went from sorry, we don't have any spaces anymore for you, like we're not seeing you to then booking the job you're on the stage. All because you were like, I need this, how am I gonna get there? I'm gonna message choreographer, like unhinged, but also you created your own opportunity.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Agreed. Like, I love that sometimes you you have to do things that are above and beyond. Oh, absolutely. And I'm not encouraging people to do crazy stuff, no, no, no, no, no. But like if you feel a passion and you gotta pursue that, you gotta pursue that.

SPEAKER_02 45:16

We're not getting everyone to like message Harry Blumen out. Can you imagine?

SPEAKER_03 45:21

Can I get the number for Harry Blum in there, please? And the thing is, I know them quite well. Like Debbie O'Brien is, you know, she's like an auntie to me. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, well, you know, because she's cast me in a few things and I just adore her. I really admire her.

SPEAKER_01 45:35

She's really lovely.

SPEAKER_03 45:36

And obviously, I I know Harry obviously because I met them. I met a kid when I was at an audition.

SPEAKER_01 45:41

Oh my gosh, of course.

SPEAKER_03 45:43

She introduced me to her kids.

SPEAKER_02 45:45

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

So we kind of all know each other in that way. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 45:48

Um, I love that. Thanks for sharing. You're welcome. I think uh Loki, that's been my favourite. My favourite so far. I was waiting for someone to because I've done some like unhinged stuff, and I was just waiting for someone else to be like, I've done it too.

SPEAKER_03 45:59

Yeah, I've done unhinged stuff.

SPEAKER_02 46:01

So we're gonna go into another section. It's called uh cut the glitz and glam. And as much as we love the industry, it's brought us so many opportunities. There is a side of it that I think like should be spoken about. Um, and yeah, things that basically what I want to ask you is what is something that you have like personally struggled with in the industry that like someone might not know, people it might not be like common knowledge. I'm not telling you, I'm not being like tell me your darkest secret, but just something within this industry that you've personally been like, oh that's a struggle and I didn't know.

SPEAKER_03 46:34

I think one of the challenges for me was um to be uh to my faith, like bringing faith into into the industry, into what I do, knowing that it was God I believe that was opening those doors and opportunities for me, being able to be open about that and honest about that, and to to show people who the God that I believe and I serve is just by the way I am.

SPEAKER_02 47:00

That's um it's a lot of vulnerability, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 47:02

A lot of vulnerability. There's been some times where I've had to I've come to some decisions that I've had to make, you know, and I making sure that I don't compromise my faith. There's been that, yeah, there's been those times, yeah. There's there's certain shows that I actually, you know, find hard. I know this it touches subject because of some things that have happened with other productions.

SPEAKER_04 47:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:23

Uh but one thing I will say, God is love. God is love, and um his ways aren't our ways, that's what he says in his word, and his thoughts aren't our thoughts.

SPEAKER_02 47:33

My mum is gonna love my mum's Christian, my mum's gonna love as I say. She's gonna live right.

SPEAKER_03 47:37

So I I think we have to keep an open mind acknowledging how how vast and how unfathomable God actually is. So um, but there are certain things where I get my personal conviction that I don't really want to do. So that's been a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 47:51

To kind of know what I can do what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

That's something I've not even thought about, actually.

SPEAKER_03 47:56

I didn't until I was faced with those challenges.

SPEAKER_02 47:59

Yes. Until it until it was there, and you're like, oh, I have to make a decision where I feel like this does this lie with my morals and who I am and follow.

SPEAKER_03 48:08

Thank you. Am I able to authentically shine my light in this moment? Type of gym. Interesting, you know? Uh irrespective of what the moment looks like. Because I've been in some racy shows.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:18

But my light, thankfully, I believe, has still shone.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 48:21

And I've had some great experiences, not only on stage, but off stage with the people that I'm working with, you know, in the way of shining my light and and just being who God has called me to be. Not to preach on people. I don't do that.

SPEAKER_02 48:33

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. Just live. It's just who you are, just live. It's just yeah, it's it's just Nate.

SPEAKER_03 48:38

Just be what you're called to be. And I was, and so that's something that I've I've struggled with, but I'm grateful that I've come through.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah, I love that because you haven't detrimented who you are to put this industry first. That's right. And I think that's so important. Yeah, it was to me. We're humans first.

SPEAKER_03 48:54

It was to me. At a time when there wasn't much of an awareness of all of those things.

SPEAKER_02 48:57

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

You know, now that we're aware of a lot of things.

SPEAKER_02 49:00

Yeah, it's just about education. Education it is that.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

And understanding and sensitivity, which I think in some aspects is still lacking in the industry, actually.

SPEAKER_01 49:11

Oh, there's so much more to go.

SPEAKER_03 49:13

Yeah, I mean, I'm gonna get a bit dark here, but there's I think that there is still an element of box ticking that takes place in productions. And you know, I'm not here to bash producers or anything like that, but I think if you're seen to be professing to be doing something actively about I don't know, race awareness, diversity, equity, and all of those things, then i the proof needs to be in the pudding. It needs to be apparent, you need to feel it and not only exercising.

SPEAKER_02 49:43

No, because I can I ask what you mean by that. Like, what do you mean when you say like the proof's in the pudding?

SPEAKER_03 49:49

So if you say that you are um you are uh cheerleading or promoting diversity in your production, I need to see that. I need to know that the wig is the right colour, I need to know it's made corru the right and it it suits me. We've come a long way. We've come a long way. I think.

SPEAKER_02 50:11

See, I didn't see this is where education matters because I didn't even I wouldn't even know.

SPEAKER_03 50:16

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:16

I wouldn't even know about that.

SPEAKER_03 50:18

Right.

SPEAKER_02 50:18

So it's about like even something like making the fish decks the right colour.

SPEAKER_03 50:23

Yeah, yeah, we've got yeah, that very much that and there's been productions where that has been very apparent.

SPEAKER_02 50:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 50:29

Like, you know, even the things that we wear, they they match the flesh of our hands if we were doing like lights or anything like that. Those things.

SPEAKER_02 50:36

Okay, yeah. There's some people that potentially might preach that they're full of diversity and you know, but And they're not necessarily professing it. Got you.

SPEAKER_03 50:45

And I've had those experiences which have challenged me. Okay. Because obviously um I'm told one thing and I'm going into what I think is a certain thing, like there's uh an opportunity for cultural awareness and diversity, and I look around and I see that there's a lot of ignorance towards my culture or towards uh the diversity that is necessary. So um yeah, that's that's been a challenge.

SPEAKER_02 51:10

Thank you for sharing that. Like genuinely, like I think these are not easy to share.

SPEAKER_03 51:14

It's not, and I've never really spoken outwardly about it, and I I take my hat off to all those people that have spoken out about it and they're like actively doing things about it. I'm I've been active about doing things about it because I had an opportunity in another production to have a chat, a conscious conversation about race and about where we fit and how we feel in the industry. And you know, one thing that I was taught because they could see the people that I was teach speaking to, uh, I was very fortunate to have Clark Peters invited along to that particular session to just pour out wisdom and to share some of his experiences and and advice. Yeah. Uh but one thing that I do recall taking away from it is that you can't do everything. No, you know what I mean? You can't try and fix everything.

SPEAKER_02 51:55

No, that's too much pressure to put on your own.

SPEAKER_03 51:56

Just do what you can do, just do what you can do. If everyone does their bit, then the world will definitely be a better way.

SPEAKER_02 52:04

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um what has been a pinch me moment in your career?

SPEAKER_03 52:10

I think we've discussed it. Um a pinch me moment was definitely when I Stevie Wonder. Stevie Wonder, huge. There's been several. Um working with Whoopi Goldberg, and not just Whoopi Goldberg, by the way. That's actually crazy when it feels like as if it's just me and her doing the production. It wasn't. It was a whole cast, and everyone was amazing, and I met some beautiful people who are still my friends now, including Petina Miller and Rachel John, and oh my gosh. We just met, I met so many beautiful people on that particular show. And as I said, I was having a really tough time in my life, so that just picked me up and made me feel worth something against.

SPEAKER_04 52:48

Good.

SPEAKER_03 52:48

Um, another pinch-me moment outside of theatre is singing with Michael Buble.

SPEAKER_02 52:54

You sung with Michael Buble?

SPEAKER_03 52:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 52:57

When?

SPEAKER_03 52:58

So, as you know, I run the West End Gospel Choir.

SPEAKER_02 53:03

Oh my gosh, how have we this is well I'm gonna talk about that? No, because this is where we could just speak for hours, because I even had that written down, but like you've learned so many things.

SPEAKER_03 53:14

Right.

SPEAKER_02 53:14

So you are also the founder of West End Gospel Choir.

SPEAKER_03 53:19

Correct.

SPEAKER_02 53:19

And you sang with Michael Buble with that.

SPEAKER_03 53:22

Yeah, crazy. Uh that was unbelievable because uh someone that I felt was out of reach, all of a sudden I was singing alongside and with.

SPEAKER_00 53:30

How did that happen?

SPEAKER_03 53:31

And the choir, my my family, my beautiful choir family were with me and we shared that moment. Yeah. I was approached, I had an email. You here's a joke.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Yeah, you did.

SPEAKER_03 53:41

Here's a funny thing, here's a funny thing, you know. Here's a joke. Get closer. So when the person contacted me, um, first of all, the email was Is your choir available to sing alongside uh a celebrity?

SPEAKER_04 53:54

Okay, so I was like, Yes.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Don't care the determines, just put yes. It's like the spirit was guiding me to just say yes. So I put yes, and then um they said, Can I call you? And she called me, but I was quite busy, I was on tour, I think, at the moment at the time, and um moving up and down the street, and I she she mentioned the name of the person, and I thought she said Michael Ball. I did, and I was like, Yeah, I was like, Yeah, okay, yeah, the choir happily backed Michael Ball. So she said, Great, can we keep it as a big surprise? Like, don't tell your choir. So I was like, Okay, yeah, I won't tell them.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

So you they didn't know. They didn't know you not know until he walked. Sorry.

SPEAKER_03 54:36

It wasn't until like closer to the day when they sent me the sheet. And you were like they sent me like the person's name. I was like, It's Michael Booblay, not Michael Ball. No T no shade to Michael Ball because he's also a legend.

SPEAKER_02 54:50

Yeah, but also Michael Booblay! He's like the king of Christmas.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

Hello, he's the king of Christmas, and and all things cool and smooth.

SPEAKER_02 54:57

Yeah, that's insane!

SPEAKER_03 54:59

Yeah, so that was That's a good pinchy moment, a beautiful pinchy moment, and he also is a believer as well, so we were able to talk about faith and stuff like that and connect with that thing. I love that, I thought about him. Yeah, yeah. So that was awesome.

SPEAKER_02 55:12

Yeah, love that.

SPEAKER_03 55:14

And also, obviously, I wasn't a part of it, but the choir sang for His Majesty the King. I wasn't there, but I pinched myself to be like, that's my choir.

SPEAKER_02 55:22

I didn't know that either.

SPEAKER_03 55:22

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 55:24

God, this choir is wrong!

SPEAKER_03 55:26

Doing the things.

SPEAKER_02 55:26

Wow, unreal, babe, unreal. So deserving.

SPEAKER_03 55:29

Thank God.

SPEAKER_02 55:30

Um, so we're gonna come into the last segment of our podcast. All right, oh god, I could talk to you for hours. I know, I think we have it's been three hours. Um so this is called the five-minute call.

SPEAKER_03 55:40

All right, and this is five minute call, everybody. Ladies and gentlemen, five minute call.

SPEAKER_02 55:44

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 55:44

Ladies and gentlemen of the Life in the Wings cast, this is your five-minute call. Five minutes, thank you.

SPEAKER_02 55:49

I think I might start the podcast with that.

SPEAKER_03 55:53

You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 55:54

Voice over. Um, so this is basically where I give my guests um just space to any time, sorry, anytime I say space, I always think of that wicked interview where they're like, uh, you know where they ask um Cynthia Revo like holding space. Holding space. So anytime I say space, I always think holding space.

SPEAKER_03 56:15

Holding space. Um we're holding space.

SPEAKER_02 56:16

We're holding space for Nathaniel.

unknown 56:19

Thanks.

SPEAKER_02 56:20

Tell me dreams, uh, what you want to achieve, accomplishments. Can be industry, non-industry.

SPEAKER_03 56:27

Well, first of all, I'd like to see more of my faith involved in the industry. It's happening, it is happening. But one of the dreams and the goals I did a show called Renew Your Hallelujah with an incredible gospel um choir, and I want to call them an enterprise organization because they're kind of like that and they're renowned. Uh Volney Morgan and the New Year choir, uh, and it was an incredible production, and I just realized that there's so much premise for faith in theatre and faith in the industry. So I'd like to see more faith-oriented productions, and because obviously that's my faith. That's my own personal thing. I love that. But then on top of that, I have a passion now that is growing for the creative side of production.

SPEAKER_04 57:12

Okay.

SPEAKER_03 57:13

Uh, I really would love to try my hand at being like an assistant director.

SPEAKER_02 57:18

Oh, you'd smash that.

SPEAKER_03 57:19

Do you think like responsible type vibes, or you know, even like I have so much uh admiration for company managers because I have such a love for people.

SPEAKER_02 57:31

I was gonna say, you looking after a bunch of people, constantly just wanting to look after people.

SPEAKER_03 57:36

I don't know what's wrong with me. Hero complex or something. That's great. Um, but yeah, like I I I love that idea, and and so I think I'd love to explore that. Obviously, I'd still like to keep working, yeah, perhaps and do bits here and there, but you know, I I I look at champions like Tyrone Huntley, yeah, you know, who I just admire and I'm inspired by. There I could name so many. I'm getting myself into trouble naming names because there's so many other names I should think.

SPEAKER_02 58:00

People are gonna mention you that why don't you mention that? Why do you mention me?

SPEAKER_03 58:03

Do you know what I mean? But like I see that he's done that, he's he's done the theatre stuff, and then he moved and became a director and did the directing. And and I have another friend uh who's also um is she she resident director on Stranger Things? Oh wow as well, like so yeah, it's there's I'm inspired by the way the industry has shifted and the well could say the industry shifted, but the way people's minds have shifted yeah, the mindset, yeah, the way that we're we're uh pursuing other elements of the industry, yeah. And I think that that is right personally for me, and and I'd love to explore more of that. Love that. I mean, I don't know what time I'd have to do it being an agent and an artistic consultant. And I ought to big up the agency, Red Talent Management. Big love to you guys. Hi, right. And all my beautiful clients. Hopefully they're all watching. Please subscribe. I hope so. They should be, I think they are.

SPEAKER_02 58:59

Um going into our uh last question, and it's from a listener. Thank you everyone for all your questions. Um, and this actually, you know what? This ties in really well. How do you stop people from pigeonholding you as one thing in this industry?

SPEAKER_03 59:14

I think you gotta show them.

SPEAKER_02 59:16

I agree.

SPEAKER_03 59:17

Literally show them.

SPEAKER_02 59:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 59:19

Um there was something that came up on my feed on Instagram yesterday. Another friend of mine who does like his own Instagram thing, like almost like a podcast-y type thing. And he was talking about performers and looking the part. He was talking about looking the part. Whatever it is that you want to pursue that gets you away from being pinch and hold, you need to show it. You need to present it, you need to let them see it. Yeah, it's so they know that it you can do that.

SPEAKER_02 59:49

Because the minute you present yourself as it, you are it.

SPEAKER_03 59:51

And you've also got to take yourself seriously. Because some people aren't, and it's not that let me rephrase, let me backtrack. It's not that people don't take themselves seriously, they're not tenacious, maybe enough or courageous enough to put a stop to the pigeonholing. So when when the opportunities come and they're like, we want you to do this again, you can say no.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:13

Yeah, yeah. It's hard to say no. I actually when it's work. Jason Lee Winters podcast, he um he was saying that about um, if I remember rightly, I think he was stuck in like a swing box.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:26

Right.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:26

And he knew he wanted the part.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:29

Right. And he's I've worked with him and he's incredible.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:32

Did you work for him on Moulin Rouge?

SPEAKER_03 1:00:33

He's a good friend of mine.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:34

Ah. Moulin Rouge.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:36

Again, obviously, there he was swing and he danced captain as well.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

He's about breaking that, it's breaking having to say no to some things to break that.

SPEAKER_03 1:00:44

He's the kind of person that I think has the tenacity and the will to do such a thing. Oh, he's so I'm sure he's already doing it.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:50

If not, you of course you're good friends with him, because like I get it. Of course, of course. Like, he's very like us as well. Like the way we even like chat.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:00

Tribe vibes.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:01

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I love that. Yeah, I think you're right. I think it's just about showing people, and it's about not even pigeonholing yourself.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:10

Because sometimes we pigeonhole ourselves. That's true. And we're like, I'm a singer, I don't dance. And I used to do that. I used to be like, oh, I'm not a dancer, but actually, I'm like, you know what? I've got through dance rounds.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:19

It's funny because I'm I'm I'm at a point where um, not to cut you, but um and I love what you just said, um, I'm at a point where I'm I'm having meetings with potential clients and we're talking a lot about that, about keeping your options open and leveling up.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:36

Because I've had there's some of them that are saying, you know what, my dance is the best thing, and like my singing ain't that strong, and I don't know about acting. And I'm like, well, why don't you do something about that then?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:46

So then you're not going to meet and saying that.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:48

Yeah, because I've watched, I've been to several showcases, and I've seen the potential in a lot of people. I'm like, if you just had a few more lessons and you know, if you just worked on your singing, and if you just maybe had a few acting classes and whatnot, you could then really be the legitimate triple threat.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:04

Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:06

Because the more skill set you have, is the more opportunity that will be available to you.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:10

Oh my god, yeah, and even outside singing, dance and acting, like there's so many shows now that they need like mus musicians or someone that's someone that can roller skate or like for adverts, someone that can horse ride, like there's so many skills, and it's just like any skill that you've got, get that on your spotlight. Absolutely.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:27

So your skill set can help you come out of the pigeonholing and safeguard from pigeonholing.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:32

Unreal. It's been more than a pleasure. Thank you for having me on this podcast.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:37

I'm really honoured and congratulations.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:50

Thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:51

I've always wanted to be British, so I'm so jealous. But thank you, Sarah. But thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:56

Yeah, it's as I said, I can chat with you for 12 million hours. Like, yeah, thank you. And Nathaniel Morrison, he is an absolute babe. Um, thank you as well for listening and watching. Um please comment, like, subscribe, all of that jazz, and we will see you next week.

unknown 1:03:14

Bye!