Tom Wright; Producer, Casting Director, AND agent!! CRAZIEST BACKSTAGE STORY!! 😲😲😲 | Life in The Wings

Hosted By Charlotte Neale. In this weeks' episode we chat to Tom Wright, who has just about done most things in this Industry. This conversation is such an insightful one, and definitely one you don't want to miss! X

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:11

Hello everyone, and welcome back to Life in the Wings podcast. I am joined by not only the most wonderful agent producer, casting director, all of the above, um, my best friend, my everything.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

This is weird, isn't it? It's very odd. We're not serious at all together.

SPEAKER_01 0:32

We're we're not, and um this is when I first started this podcast, I always thought that I would never be able to interview you.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

And here we are.

SPEAKER_01 0:41

And here we are. What a channel events!

SPEAKER_00 0:44

Hello everyone, hello, thank you for having me.

SPEAKER_01 0:47

So uh let's just go straight before we introduce you properly. Let's go into the quick fire questions.

SPEAKER_02 0:54

I'm ready.

SPEAKER_01 0:54

Are you ready? Oh, the glasses are off. I'm ready. Ready.

SPEAKER_00 0:57

Here we go.

SPEAKER_01 0:58

You locked in?

SPEAKER_00 0:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:00

Self-taple in-room auditions.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

In room.

SPEAKER_01 1:02

Theatre or TV and film?

SPEAKER_00 1:04

TV and film. Sorry. Take it seriously, come on.

SPEAKER_01 1:09

New talent or established talent.

SPEAKER_00 1:11

New talent.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Everyone says that. Love it. Spotlight profile or showreel first?

SPEAKER_00 1:15

Show reel.

SPEAKER_01 1:16

Email Oh okay. Emails or phone calls?

SPEAKER_00 1:19

Phone calls.

SPEAKER_01 1:20

You're a phone call guy. We love a phone call. He loves a voice note also. First preview or press night?

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Press night.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

West End or fringe.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

Fringe.

SPEAKER_01 1:30

And then last but not least, just a fun one. Wait, I say just a fun one, tea or coffee. Is that fun?

SPEAKER_00 1:36

Neither, to be honest with you, but probably coffee. I don't really drink hot drinks a lot.

SPEAKER_01 1:41

Sorry, we had a coffee this morning, an iced coffee.

SPEAKER_00 1:44

It's a novelty. I'm more of like, you know what? I love a bit of squash.

SPEAKER_01 1:49

No. He brings his own squash to my house. I did, to be fair today.

SPEAKER_00 1:54

I was like, she's not gonna have squash. Because you're not a squash person.

SPEAKER_01 1:56

I'm not a squash person.

SPEAKER_00 1:58

So be prepared, guys. That's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_01 2:00

Be prepared and be prepared when you come.

SPEAKER_00 2:04

Not me.

SPEAKER_01 2:06

Be prepared when you come for the podcast. There will not be any squash in the house. Um hello.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

Squash, hello.

SPEAKER_01 2:11

How are you?

SPEAKER_00 2:12

I'm alive, how are you?

SPEAKER_01 2:14

I'm alive too. Thank God for that.

SPEAKER_00 2:16

The weather's lovely, the sun's out, which is the sun is nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:20

Oh, the sun is out there, and I'm feeling okay. Tori Carey. Perfect. So let us go back to the beginning of your life.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Well.

SPEAKER_01 2:34

You are in this industry a man of many talents.

SPEAKER_00 2:39

Too much.

SPEAKER_01 2:41

I am just I'm gonna explode with my talent that I've got.

SPEAKER_00 2:45

No, no.

SPEAKER_01 2:46

Um, so you went to ArtZed.

SPEAKER_00 2:50

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 2:50

Graduated in Lane first. Oh, you did.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

Did a foundation year at Lane.

SPEAKER_01 2:55

You did.

SPEAKER_00 2:56

Which was amazing.

SPEAKER_01 2:57

Yes. And then you went to Arts Ed.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

ArtZed, three years.

SPEAKER_01 3:00

Graduated what year?

SPEAKER_00 3:01

2017. Which feels like.

SPEAKER_01 3:05

Oh, so you graduate the same year as me. Oh my gosh, of course. I did know that. I did know that. Because we graduate not obviously I didn't go to Arts Ed, but we graduated in the same year.

SPEAKER_00 3:15

Wow.

SPEAKER_01 3:16

Yeah, I don't know if I did either.

SPEAKER_00 3:17

Okay, fine. Yeah. I was 2014 to 17 at Arts Ed, so.

SPEAKER_01 3:21

That was the same with me at Performers.

SPEAKER_00 3:22

It feels like two weeks ago, but also we old.

SPEAKER_01 3:27

We old.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

We old.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

Um, okay.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Someone said to me the other day they looked at my CV and they went, how how? And I was I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 3:34

Yeah, because I don't know. For everything that you've done, like at the at the age that you are, it like I I do agree. Your CV is as if like It's a bit disgusting. You're a 45-year-old man.

SPEAKER_00 3:46

She'd been around the block.

SPEAKER_01 3:47

Um yeah, you've been around the block, so let's talk about that. So you when did musical theatre come into your life?

SPEAKER_00 3:53

Musical theatre came into my life. Um, probably secondary school when there was a man called Phil Orin, he was the head of music, and Angela Dennis, head of drama, and they were just like, hmm, oh you can sing, okay, oh you can act, oh okay.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Oh, you love the textbook.

SPEAKER_00 4:08

And they just basically, basically. And then they just pushed me down into that, basically, and then I was like, Oh, this I think is is what I I enjoy doing.

SPEAKER_01 4:17

That's so interesting. So you actually it came into your life at school from your school teachers.

SPEAKER_00 4:21

100%. Because when I was a child, as dramatic as I was, I I I I didn't I mean do much really.

SPEAKER_01 4:27

You played rugby as well, didn't you?

SPEAKER_00 4:29

I played rugby, yeah. Rugby was my uh my love when I was younger. But yeah, basically, um, yeah, just from that. And then that that's when I took it seriously, I think. Really? And then that's when it just snowballed, really, and then here we are. And it's weird because I feel like you you go on that path and suddenly that's all you know. For a lot of us who were creatives and actors, it's like, okay, well, I'm just gonna do that.

SPEAKER_01 4:49

Yeah, some people have those like moments of like this is when I nearly wanted to do it, and then some people like myself just it's all I've done, it's all I've known. It wasn't like a specific moment.

SPEAKER_02 4:59

No, exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:59

Um, so you graduated in 2017 as an actor performer.

SPEAKER_00 5:06

Yeah, musical theatre art said, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:08

Yeah, so you you actually did um you did work in the industry, you had a couple jobs. Then what happened? You transitioned. I what was the first transition? Because there's been many a transition.

SPEAKER_00 5:21

Jumped over the table.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

So basically I leapfrogged.

SPEAKER_00 5:25

I I I loved acting and I had a great time with it, and I think I was good at it.

SPEAKER_01 5:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:30

But there was something in me that it wasn't enough. And I've always been a business savvy person.

SPEAKER_01 5:37

Yeah, I've you are.

SPEAKER_00 5:39

I've always been business minded.

SPEAKER_01 5:41

And I feel like, if you don't mind me saying, you like to be your own boss.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Follow your own rules.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

I think for me, I'm I'm very, I'm very driven to keep moving. And with acting, there's so much you can do what you can do in your in your control, but there's a lot of waiting around, right? And for me, that just I was like I can't stand here and and wait. Do you know what I mean? Which I think helped me with my acting jobs and why I got them because I was so I went into rooms and I was like, yeah, great, let's go. There was I was quite blunt about it.

SPEAKER_01 6:10

Like this man here, the confidence that you have, and the confidence that like you give me as well. I said on I can't remember whether it's a podcast that's come out or coming out, that um we used to do because we know each other from way back in the day. We worked front of house, and um we used to workshop me walking into the room and used to be like, no, get up, get up, and all I'd done is like take my first step. But it was either that I like I was looking at the floor or I like I was like hunched over, like I wasn't confident, and that's something that I really admire about you is that you know your talents, you know what you can give, and you have that essence of like not that you don't give a shit because you do, but that essence of I'm gonna do what I can in the room, you either enjoy it or you don't, and you walk out.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

I think it's just from casting and everything. I think for me it's just knowing that you know who you are, yeah, you knew you know what you're coming into that room to do and just have an opinion about that role, that piece, know what you're coming in. This is what I think. Do that and don't apologize for it.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Bold, um, what do they say? Like you'd rather be strong and wrong than go in and not really make a choice, make a weak choice.

SPEAKER_00 7:31

Because you have to come into a room and be a leading player, because it's the whole thing of if you can't lead the room, how the hell are you gonna lead the show? You know, and well we'll get to it later, but it it's the whole thing of you know, of course, as a casting director, you know, I'm casting talent, but at the same time, I'm also I've got the producer sat next to me who wants to save money. Show stops cost money, right? Overtime, banned, everything, whatever. So we're also looking for people that come into the room, and I know if something goes wrong, you're so confident in yourself that this show will keep going.

SPEAKER_01 8:01

So you want to invest in not only their talent but the person themselves. 100% before they've even showed you their talent and also the leading person as well.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

It's like you're leading the cast, and what and you are you lead by example, right? Yeah. So you need to find people that and and it's hard because the game of casting, of course, it's talent, but it's also personalities, it's working out who can go on a w a weekly touring show around the UK and isn't going to cause chaos.

SPEAKER_01 8:23

True, true, true, true, true.

SPEAKER_00 8:24

But how how how can you tell that from a few auditions? Do you know?

SPEAKER_01 8:28

So so you went from performing to uh was it age agent?

SPEAKER_00 8:33

Agenting, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:34

Agenting. Uh and you started off as like assisting agent and kind of like worked your way up.

SPEAKER_00 8:38

Yeah, learnt the job basically.

SPEAKER_01 8:39

Yeah, learnt the job. How did you how did you find that? Did you have your own like lists and stuff like that?

SPEAKER_00 8:44

So it was at McLean Williams with Alex. So basically, yeah, um, yeah, basically started with MT stuff, and obviously that agency is amazing as well for like TV and film and straight acting, which for me was like amazing. Like I wanted to absorb it, you know. So yeah, that's why I sort of learned learned You just learn on the job. Learnt the job.

SPEAKER_01 9:03

Who to email, how to email, exactly like what talent you want to take on. What that's so like I love that you literally jumped on the other side of the table. Did you learn things like, oh, that's maybe that's why I wasn't getting called in, or maybe that's why everyone needs to go sit on a panel or like working in an office because you just go, oh. There's so much more to it.

SPEAKER_00 9:25

Just for like we did, you walking in a room, just from people coming in a room and just going, okay, they're confident, but they're doing it in a way which is quite jarring. Yeah, it's being it's that balance of of being competent but also being charismatic.

SPEAKER_01 9:39

Yeah, I think you have to have that essence of you wanna be you want to be confident, you want to be charismatic, but you also want to bring yourself to it. Like you don't want it. It's weird, isn't it? It's like this weird balance that we're all trying to find. But I just kind of live my life of I'll do me. Be yourself with a bit of more confidence when I'm walking in, and hopefully that lands. And if it doesn't, it wasn't meant to be.

SPEAKER_00 10:05

It's not meant to be, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

So you spoke about it. So you at what point did you go from well into casting? Was there like an overlap? Was you doing it at the same time?

SPEAKER_00 10:14

So essentially, yeah. So uh after McLean went to global, uh working with Michael Garrett, and um yeah, basically then obviously the pandemic hit as well, right?

SPEAKER_01 10:22

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 10:23

Um and then from the pandemic, TV and film just kept going, right? So it was just a sort of transition naturally through that, essentially.

SPEAKER_01 10:30

So did you start with your musical fit? Because like some of the stuff.

SPEAKER_00 10:33

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 10:34

I say I've done my research, I knew it all anyway. But like some of the stuff that you've cast, Heathers, Percy Jackson, UK Tour, Ghost UK Tour, Cruel Intentions, Boys in the Black stuff, that was all was that with BKL?

SPEAKER_00 10:45

That's with BKL.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

So how was that?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

So I was working in the producer department with an amazing team, Eliza Larkey, Tracer Charles, Julius Green, like just phenomenal people.

SPEAKER_01 10:54

Did you have like the best time and just like again learn so much?

SPEAKER_00 10:58

I think for me, from all of the offices that I've been in, it all came together in one job because it was producing and also I was casting stuff there as well, right? So it was a nice balance of everything because you really had the full 360 of that process of a show.

SPEAKER_01 11:12

And you love to be busy.

SPEAKER_00 11:14

I love to be busy.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

Well, I'm like, no, this is too much. I've got two things going on at the same time where you you love like projects, projects. Um, other than other than you know, walking into the room as as that leading um partner in a company, what what was what's the biggest advice that you would give someone that you've learned from watching hundreds and hundreds come into the room going for the same role, singing the same material? Do you have any advice that you could give performers that may be watching that just feel a little like, you know, I'm getting into these rooms but I'm not getting the parts? Like, what sort of things would you either say that could help them, or even if it's something to do with like preparation or something to do with what you're actually doing in the room? Like, what would you what would you advise?

SPEAKER_00 12:03

Honestly, the one thing that most people don't do is have an opinion on that piece, right? And what I mean is everyone will come in and do what they think the casting team want to see.

SPEAKER_01 12:14

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean.

SPEAKER_00 12:16

And with most directors that I've ever worked with, like come in the room and and give your version of that. Who is who is Veronica as Charlotte? What do you bring to that role, which makes it maybe a little bit different? Or what do you mean? What is that vibe? I was like, Because if you try and copy, you know, Carriot Fletcher doing it, for example, whoever.

SPEAKER_01 12:36

Can you see when people come into the room that there's carbon copies of like what people have seen?

SPEAKER_00 12:40

And a lot of the time it's vocal choices. Ah because they have listened to the soundtrack so many times that they will just recreate that, which is fine. Yeah, of course that work once it'll work again, I'm sure, you know. But it's the the interesting people that come in the room that I'm like, oh, it's a different version of this, or there's a little bit of a sprinkle of something, right?

SPEAKER_01 12:56

Ah, interesting.

SPEAKER_00 12:57

And not just songs, but script as well. Come in and make that choice. Let's say it's for TV and film or whatever. The most simple sort of thing is like an argument, right? And I the script's an argument with two people, and everyone will be like, ah, start shouting. Make the make a different choice. Make the choice where you're absolutely cool as a cucumber, but you can see they are absolutely furious, right? And there's subtext bubbling below. No, I'm fine, I'm fine, right? Yeah, that's what's interesting, right? Because it's and that's a very simple version of it, but just make a choice on the script which isn't what you think is straight away what what the I guess with that as well, because sometimes if you're trying to impersonate someone else's version, you end up presenting the role and not being.

SPEAKER_02 13:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 13:38

Because I remember when I do, I've done a couple um workshops with Rent It Shouting with Harry Blumenau, and I remember there was this one time where I literally started, I sang two words, and he was like, Stop, and he was like, That was a bit shit. And bear in mind, I I know him, he knows me, so I can take it. But he was like, that's a bit shit, wouldn't it? And I was like, you know what? Yeah, it was. Because he was like, I want you to do it as Charlotte and bring what what would Charlotte bring to the role and not be, you know, go in this um, I never know what it's called, you know, this this distance that we go into in MT World.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

Yeah, like the we he was like, just cut all that presenting it rather than just and the thing for me and what I look for everything is if you find the truth. That is step one. If you can't find the truth, um I'm not interested.

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Do you um because okay, I'm sorry, my brain again's going a million miles per hour. Do you have a dream show that in a in this world or in another world that you were like, I'd love to cast?

SPEAKER_00 14:32

Oh gosh. Oh, I don't know. What would I love to cast a parade?

SPEAKER_01 14:39

You don't know this match.

SPEAKER_00 14:40

Do you know why? Because it is a play with music, and of course the music gives so much to it, but it's Did you ever see it on Broadway? I didn't.

SPEAKER_01 14:47

I didn't either. Um yeah, I'm really jealous of the people that did.

SPEAKER_00 14:50

But that's a show where if you can't find the truth, you can't do that show then. Like you have to be an actor first and foremost.

SPEAKER_01 14:55

Like Do you um I think I already know the answer to this, but based on what you just said, do you believe like acting is the first thing?

SPEAKER_00 15:06

I don't I don't care if you can sing, uh smack your leg, do whatever. Like that's why I go watch shows, and sometimes I'm like, it's great, it's a spectacle, but like I don't believe it. Yeah, you know, and and also I don't care if you're doing a book musical like Mamma Mia or whatever it is, where it's quite simple and it's quite cheesy corny, find the truth. You can still find the truth. I I've seen people play Sky and Sophie and they're amazing because I'm like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 15:31

It doesn't have to be this like even if you play like airy fairy characters, it doesn't mean the whole thing, the whole substance of the character has to be ditzy-doo-doo. There can still be truth behind it.

SPEAKER_02 15:41

No, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 15:42

Um that actually reminds me, because obviously um there's a new version of Illegally Born UK Tour, and I know I've seen a lot online where um Nicolai Foster directed Amber Davies to to be L, but as the truth, yeah, and and L as a real person, so that does make sense. Um so you now have your own agency.

SPEAKER_00 16:05

I'm back.

SPEAKER_01 16:06

Wayne Wright Group. Now, first of all, where did the name come from?

SPEAKER_00 16:10

So my family's original name essentially was Wayne Wright before someone obviously annoyed someone and lost the the the Wayne, but um way, way back when there was a connection with it.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

And I just for me, like I never wanted to put, I don't know, I never wanted to be joked about it, but Tom Wright Associates, I never wanted that because no all Tom's like, even even when you're like a performance every, we'd always joke like TWA on tour, like Tom Wright Associates on tour. Like we'd always say, if you get an agency, you have to call it TWA. So I was gutted when you didn't.

SPEAKER_00 16:42

Well, no, I I just I didn't want to put my name on it because I find it, I don't know, I just especially in the future, you know, when other people when I bring other agents in, whatever it is, but when it expands and grows, like you don't want Paul down the lane being like, Hi Tom, when it's actually someone else I feel a bit uncomfortable, people other people working in the business and and my name's on the door. Do you know what I mean? Yeah, yeah. I'd rather something a little bit more general where it's like you're part of this, and this isn't me, if that makes sense. This is a company that I'm building, and you're just gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 17:11

But I guess you still want it an essence of who you are in the name.

SPEAKER_00 17:15

Yeah, and I think with with the name as well, it's a universally known name. You know, the other thing is I didn't want because with if it was Tom Wright Associates, the W R uh Wainwright, they know Wainwright brothers like I mean it's it's yeah, it's it's everyone knows how to spell it. You know, because you don't want to be on the phone and they're like, How do you spell it's no it's just yeah it's long with me, life is about efficiency, and it's do you know what I mean? It's so true.

SPEAKER_01 17:38

Tom's like, no, no, no, we've got no time, it's this, this, and this. I'm like, okay, I'm coming, I'm coming. Um, so the transition of you working at BKL was um straight into then opening it via an agency, right? So, where did that come into play?

SPEAKER_00 17:56

As in the transition coming back to management.

SPEAKER_01 17:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:00

So I was always coming back to this.

SPEAKER_01 18:02

Right, it was always on the cards.

SPEAKER_00 18:04

It was I go do your time, go do your pilgrimage around this industry. Because, you know, having been an agent before, you know, I learned so much, but for me, learning from fact is so important because there's so much uh smoke and mirrors in this industry, you know, where everyone's like, Oh, I know this person. That's like no, let's go learn from fact, let's go do. Then you can recognize it.

SPEAKER_01 18:24

Do you know them or have you met them once?

SPEAKER_00 18:26

Well, it's true though, like you know, people say, Oh, we've got a connection, we've been to a press night with them. I mean it's very difficult to working in an office for someone or having that direct relationship. Because now what I love is we just cut the crap. You know, for most offices that I phone, that there's no like, hi darling, how's your weekend? We know we're like, hey, you're right, yeah, well, good, thanks, darling. Like, right, this is what I want, this is what's happening.

SPEAKER_01 18:47

And because you've had those close relationships with people and you've learned from them, they yeah, they they've helped you along the way to get to this point.

SPEAKER_00 18:56

And they've also been part of it, yeah. And there's so many people who knew this was coming for so long that they were like, Oh, like this, this is this actually happened. Which is amazing because I think for me, when when I did what I did, I spent those years from a business point of view, because my my thing was understanding what a casting director and a producer wants from this negotiation, not just me as an agent.

SPEAKER_02 19:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 19:17

And when you understand the full 360 of that negotiation from TV, film, creative, theatre, that's when you you know, there's a game to play with it, right? You know, and that's when I I know what they want from this. How do I make them feel like they're winning? But we also get what we want, right? And it's so powerful. And unless you work in on that other side, you don't know how to it's hard because you already learn from what someone else told you, essentially, you know. And for me, it was you know, I I set out to uh absorb and create this business knowledge, right? But then what came from it was this community of casting directors, producers, directors, showrunners, creatives who it's like I've got loads of mums and dads in this industry who are they've all been part of this journey, you know, which is lovely coming back to this because I think you know it it's hard, because let's be honest, this is a new business, right? But I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_01 20:04

Yeah, so so how how old is because I re I remember when obviously we lived together and you were speaking about, you know, I think it's coming to the time now where I do want to open it. And I remember there was this toss and time between, oh, do I open it now? Do I wait another six months? And I remember just being like, just do it. And you were like, you know what, I'm just gonna do it. I feel there's never a time where it's like, is it the right time, is it not? With anything in life, there's never the right time because there's always doubts, but you just got to take the leap and you just gotta do it. How have you how have you found it? How do and and also like you said, your business is new, but you're not new to the industry, so also being a new agent, you also bring another element to it.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Well, there's so much to it, and I think for me as well, it's keeping a really select list. I'm never gonna have a list of 400 people and make it this big monster thing because let's call it spade a spade, it becomes recruitment then rather than management, you know. And then for me, it's about keeping it small and select, and I would rather have 40 leading players who are working across TV film theatre than have a few hundred people, but there's still only 40 people. You know what I mean? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Would you consider yourself a boutique agency or do we not like using those words? I had a feeling you were going to, I don't know why.

SPEAKER_00 21:16

The way that I I run it is not a boutique if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_01 21:19

Yeah. Is that like a stigma around the word boutique agency?

SPEAKER_00 21:23

No, I just I think for me, like the way that I I sort of run it and for the clients that I have and and what I'm I'm doing, it's not like oh cute and boutique. It's it's quite it's quite sort of the way I do it, it's quite corporate, really, right? But with my personal touch, because I speak to everyone every week, right? Yeah. So it's I suppose within the agency, it's very personal, right? But then in terms of the relationships with the industry, like I like to keep it quite a business, really, yeah, because that's the that's the that's that's the game we play here.

SPEAKER_01 21:52

And do you welcome people like emailing you for new rare recent graduates? What about um what about like not only just recent graduates? About people that have been out of the industry like eight years and stuff, do you are you quite open to meeting?

SPEAKER_00 22:05

My thing is like when people say, uh, oh, you know, all my books are closed, if they like you, they're not gonna be able to do it.

SPEAKER_01 22:12

Yeah, but there is that weird thing, isn't it? Like, oh, like people's book are are people's books open or not? And I'm thinking, who who decides if they're open or not? Because surely if someone comes and you're like, Oh, they're great, they'll take my agency. Yeah, what does it mean to open a book? Well, exactly. What does that actually mean?

SPEAKER_00 22:29

You know, if someone walks through the door or say emails you and you think, oh god, they're not gonna say no. Yeah, do you know what I mean? You know, so like, yeah, email. And and the thing for me is the email needs to be short and sweet. Yes, talk to us about We're not doing novels, right? We're not writing a book. And this is for casting if you're putting a casting director or an agent. It's the same, right? Yeah, it's the same format. It's literally, this is me, this is my casting. Uh please find attached uh recent self-tape, right? The most important thing is the link to the self-tape.

SPEAKER_01 23:00

I was just about to ask you about that.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Don't go, oh please find attached my spotlight, my my social reel's on there. You will people haven't got time.

SPEAKER_01 23:09

People haven't got time to click on the link to go to this, you just want it there.

SPEAKER_00 23:13

Because the honest truth is, the way that I've always worked is footage is the most important thing. Headshots and CVs, they go so far, fine, whatever, but footage is the most important thing these days. So if an email comes through, the honest thing is I go down, I go straight to the link. I don't even read the email yet. Go to the link. Are you are you right for me or not? If you are, then I'll I'll then go through the email and find out stuff.

SPEAKER_01 23:32

I um interviewed Matthew Roberts, who's an agent at uh Robert and Day. Roberts and Day, and he said that um he listens and reads email at the same time. But I was like, time efficiency. I was like, wow, that's what you have to do. Do you think um because there's so many things and there's so many contrasting things that people say, and obviously we have to take everything, you know, with a pin, not a pinch of salt, but what is it? Take the things you think are gonna benefit you and the other things, because otherwise, if you're listening to everyone's advice, it's a lot, right? Um, regardless is something really small but obviously super important. And I think someone told me along the way when I was when I just graduated and I was writing out emails, I was sending my footage via like a Google link or something, and someone told me that some people don't open that because then it saves onto their laptop and du da du da du. So would you say, is it easier to send like a YouTube link so it's straight there, or are you not bothered how it's sent as long as it's a video?

SPEAKER_00 24:29

We transfer as much as I love it for certain things, is the devil. Don't do that. Okay, you have to have a live link purely because we transfer, I have to download it. Like you said, it now saves onto my file. Yes, but also it takes ages. If it's a long show reel, suddenly I'm waiting for 10 minutes to so it has to be a live link, whether it's a G drive, Dropbox, Vimeo, YouTube private link, whatever it is, right? Vimeo still exists, Vimeo still exists, I know, yeah. Um but essentially make sure it's a live link because I I click on it straight away it starts playing. I then have the option if I want to download it, but I don't need to. I I've I've watched it, you know. But yeah, I think for me, the email, short and sweet. This is who I am, this is what my casting is to make sure I know that you'll yeah you understand what your casting is. Please want to attach to recent self-tape, obviously your spotlight link, and then copy and paste your headshot from your sort your spotlight CV onto the email. Don't attach it because the attachment doesn't open, they have to click on it to attach it, right? Oh, copy and paste it onto the email. Like that's the best thing.

SPEAKER_01 25:27

Guys, this is hot advice. Oh wow, so copy and paste it so it's already there, so they don't have to click on it so they know exactly a face to an email.

SPEAKER_00 25:35

Yeah, yeah. And also, like, and I know everyone says it, but just don't do blanket emails. Like, yeah, you know, like email personally.

SPEAKER_01 25:42

And also in the- I was gonna say, what does an email how does an email stand out to you personally?

SPEAKER_00 25:46

If I can just see your personality, like it's the ones that are like, hey Tom, listen, looking for a change in rep. This is what I'm feeling, this is what's not happening. Here's what I think my casting is, here's a recent tape, would love to chat.

SPEAKER_01 25:58

Do you like quite a humanised email? Not like hi, I hope you're well.

SPEAKER_00 26:01

Hi, Charlotte. I'm an actor, obviously. Like that's why we're here. Do you know what I mean? Like, you know, it's like don't worry about the the fluff and the faff. Like, just get to the point.

SPEAKER_01 26:12

You're very much like that, aren't you?

SPEAKER_00 26:14

Like this is the way that I work with with clients, and I think for me it's it's come with solutions, not problems, right? So come with with what I need straight away, you know? Because that's how you you you work in this industry and thrive is by being efficient and just getting the job done.

unknown 26:27

I love that.

SPEAKER_00 26:28

You know, stop fluffing it. Yeah, you know?

SPEAKER_01 26:30

I love that. So um with your with your talent agency that you that you have, do you because I don't know whether this is the right thing to say or not? I'm just gonna ask it, just out of purely for education. Some agencies that I see, I'm like, oh, I feel like that agency is more like ensemble, and I feel like oh that agency very much does lead them. Is do you have a specific um track that you want your clients to go down, or are you kind of whoever comes to the table comes to the table and I like them, I like them, I take them on type thing? Like, do you have a a brand of what you want to create, or is that maybe that's ever changing?

SPEAKER_00 27:15

Yeah, I mean, my thing is everyone is an actor first and foremost. I sell everyone as an actor first and foremost because I truly believe working across you know, stage, screen, you know, whether it's musical theatre, plays, TV, film, having a career where you work across that creates longevity and essentially it creates an insurance policy for the future that you're still going to be in this industry. Because in my opinion, to be honest with you, and we all see it happening, let's call a spade a spade. Like, if you've got 20 years of just musical theatre, it's so hard to get over the other side.

SPEAKER_01 27:45

Oh, yeah, it is.

SPEAKER_00 27:48

Right? So for me, it's important from day one, from day dot, just going, okay, great, you train a musical theatre fine, and also for who I take, I find the truth, I find the actor straight away, because they're an actor first and foremost with extra skills. They can sing, they can dance, they can do whatever, right? Because it's a bit more American, I suppose, where over there you can go from you know a Broadway play or a musical to a Netflix series read quite easily because you can sing and dance, cool, like you're an actor. I know, but over here it's very separate, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01 28:17

Isn't that strange?

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah, yeah. So I suppose for me, what I look for are people that can work or have the potential to work across the board, you know, they have that ability. I know what I need to do with them, I know what I need to work on them with. You know, so let's say you've got someone who's just come from Guildhall, for example, right? That they're an actor who's done a lot of theatre. Yeah, straight away I'm going, okay, great, you'll be seeing this theatre so easily. But from day dot, I need you to send me a self-tape every Monday in my inbox. I can then note it, we can redo it, fine every week because then we're gonna.

SPEAKER_01 28:47

So you're quite personal with your clients.

SPEAKER_00 28:49

I'm on people's backs, bless them. Like, but but then we create this database of self-tapes that some will be useful, some won't be. That's great though, but this is the learning process. So wow, so you're really hands-on to then push for for jobs for TV and film, right? Same thing for MT. Great if you've trained an MT. We better get on TV and film or acting straight away because I don't want you having five years of just MT essentially, you know.

SPEAKER_02 29:12

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:13

Because I think some agents are amazing at that, and they're amazing. If people want to have careers as just swings or ensembles and all that, amazing. But yeah, for me, that's just it's not it's not for me, it doesn't really explain.

SPEAKER_01 29:23

That's so great that that's so great that you are so hands-on with each individual client because you know, not not all not everyone works the same, and some you have to go through an assistant to get to your agent and all that sort of stuff, but like sounds like the dream. It literally sounds like the dream.

SPEAKER_00 29:39

But it's a it's a 50-50, right? Right. The client also has to come up with the goods. Oh, yeah, 100%. And that's why, you know, and I I I warn people when they come with me, I'm like, Are you re are you ready?

SPEAKER_01 29:49

Are you ready for the ride?

SPEAKER_00 29:50

No, but are you ready? Because we have work to do. Yeah. If you're not ready, no worries, then that's absolutely fine. But be honest with me, because sometimes you know you'll have clients who come and then you're like, right, I need this, this, this, work on this, get it done. And we're like six months later, and I'm like, Where are they? You know, like like this industry keeps moving and you've got to be left behind.

SPEAKER_01 30:09

It's very what was it that you there was um what's the quote that you said uh to me the other day about do you want to be hunted all the time?

SPEAKER_00 30:18

Oh, hunt or be hunted.

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Hunt or be hunted, and what's the other one? Are you gonna sit at the table?

SPEAKER_00 30:25

At the table or on the table, right? And that the whole thing is, you know, are you gonna be there and are you gonna be participating, or are you on the table that people are essentially eating, right? You know, and I know it's quite brutal, but no, but it's true. Like, let's get the job done.

SPEAKER_01 30:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 30:39

Because there's too much crap in this industry, there's too much faffing around and smoking mirrors, and oh darling, give it time, give it time. Yeah, fine, but what are we doing in that time? If you're in a year's contract in the West End for a year, what are we achieving in that year?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

Great, you've got a credit, but I can imagine you're the type of agent where, like, say a client like calls you and they're like, Oh, you know, what's happening if I'm not getting seen or whatever. I I don't think you'd just be like, Oh, the industry's quiet, like, maybe so you'd be like, right, what do we need to do?

SPEAKER_00 31:06

The thing for me, right? And of course, like right now we're going through a quiet spell in theatre, so it's like let's get on TV and film then, let's let's let's move, right?

SPEAKER_01 31:12

Yeah, you constantly want to move.

SPEAKER_00 31:14

Because the thing is, like by just sitting and waiting, you just stagnate and then you get into your head and you get you get so caught up with that. That sort of like, oh god, what am I doing? And it's like wonder what can you what can you firstly? What's alongside this industry that you can do that makes you happy to live your life?

SPEAKER_01 31:32

Thank you. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:33

Because that's what I found is having other things in my life. Suddenly, I was so confident in an audition because I'm like, this isn't 100% everything that I do.

SPEAKER_01 31:40

This my life doesn't depend on the city.

SPEAKER_00 31:42

I love this, this is what I've got. I'm I've I'm I'm I'm working later, sorry, I'm busy, I've got a great, great day coming. So yeah, if you need to let me know.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Sorry guys, I'm gonna have for a drink after this.

SPEAKER_00 31:50

I'm chock block, yeah, you know.

SPEAKER_01 31:51

Chocka block!

SPEAKER_00 31:52

But it's making sure you have that thing alongside this industry that makes you fulfilled and happy and makes you valued. That's the biggest thing because as actors, and this is what I I suppose I struggled with was like you you have such little control of a lot of stuff, yeah, you know, so control what you can, you know, and 100% control that. Um, but yeah, I think for me it's just be proactive, you know, rather than reactive to this industry. Yeah, make sure that you've got all your self-tapes ready, like they'll they're done. Because my thing as well is self-tape all of your rep. Right? Yeah, all of it. Because at some point there's gonna be a day where you're recalled or whatever, where you're ill, and then at least I can go, no worries, but here's a song on the style of the show you've already got. Yeah, you're still in the running.

SPEAKER_01 32:35

Or if like your agent's like, hey, you've been called in, there's a really short time frame, can you send me something and you're out at work or you're out, you're like, yeah, no problem, I've already got a bank of self-tapes.

SPEAKER_00 32:43

Or for example, when I was at BKL, I used to say, Can you bring a can you self-tape a song on the style of the show? Here is a cut song and script, which is material from the show essentially. So you have three things. One's already done then. You can focus on the material now rather than going, oh god, what's the song and the style of the show?

SPEAKER_01 32:59

You know, it's Yeah, so true.

SPEAKER_00 33:01

And I I'll always say to everyone as well, when you go into rooms, sing the song in your rep that's closest to that show. Don't bother learning a new one two nights before. Oh yeah. So you're gonna be on edge, you know? Yeah, I'd rather you come in. Because the first round of an audition is a tick box, right? You are literally getting the casting team and the director to go, yeah, they can sing the look right, yeah, fine, let's recall them. And then now we do material, but now we do the nitty-gritty.

SPEAKER_02 33:25

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Just go in, do the job well, don't do a song that you're gonna go, can I sing it today? Don't do it. No, no, no. Do the safe option. Yeah, go and literally tick a box, and then then the recalls we can we can get on with the material. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

Yeah, unreal.

SPEAKER_00 33:38

It's when people come in and they're singing like frozen or something, and and and you can say, Oh, they're struggling. And I'm thinking, well, why have you taken that risk?

SPEAKER_01 33:45

Yeah, it's not worth the risk, they just want to know that you can sing because now you now you've not um performed to the best of your ability and show showcased your talent to what you can actually do.

SPEAKER_00 33:54

Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 33:55

So we're about to move on to our next section.

SPEAKER_00 33:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 33:58

It's called Backstage Drama. Did you like the eye contact?

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Really enjoyed that. Really good.

SPEAKER_01 34:07

Sometimes I sing it. Jesus. Jeez, Anyways, how long have we got left? Um, I felt that, I felt the connection, you know. Anyway, moving on. Um this is where I asked my guest if they have I'm intrigued by yours. If you have any funny stories, embarrassing stories, and because you've had such a ride in this industry, surely you have many where you're like, oh like, oh damn, I sent this email, or like I got myself in a meeting, and you know what I mean? Do you have anything?

SPEAKER_00 34:42

There's so many chaotic things that have happened, so I'm gonna try and make this as short as possible. But I was casting a show, I'm not gonna say what it is, um, and we were casting in the umbrella rooms, which is a uh casting studio for anyone that doesn't know. Um, and we were downstairs in studio seven, I believe it was, which basically you don't have to go into the building to reception, it's the studio on on the side of the building around the corner where there is a door from central London that goes into this tiny little waiting room, which then goes into the studio.

SPEAKER_01 35:09

I didn't know that existed.

SPEAKER_00 35:10

There's no receptionist, right? Oh my god. So, um, so yeah, the way you do it, you put a sign on the door just saying here's the the auditions in here, leave the door ajar, and people come and they sit and they wait, and then the way that I always did it, I never had a runner, I do everything.

SPEAKER_02 35:23

Right.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

Purely because I like to come out of the room, debrief with the actor and be like, hey, how are you? Connect, fine, you're you're okay. Any questions, right? So they feel ready to go into the room. So yeah, essentially, doors ajar, fine, one by one, essentially, and it's great. I love it when it's like we're on time and we audition someone, walk them out. Thanks so much. Next person's waiting for the crack. So I'm seeing someone, fine, lovely. We we hear them saying, Dovely, fine, da da da. Um, it's um older women for this role that we were seeing. So I go out, I don't look at the headshot, just look at the name, let's call her Doreen, fine. So went out and I went, Oh, thank you so much, I thought goodbye. Doreen, how are you doing? Great, right? Are you okay? Yeah, yeah, yeah, fine, lovely, fine. Well, come with me then. So we'll go inside. Any questions? No, looking a bit flustered, I'm thinking, oh God bless her. Um, anyway, go in the room as usual and introduce her to the team, me, this director, da da da, fine, lovely. So, and also they didn't have to bring any of their own material. Uh we were doing material from the show.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:22

So I go, this is the MD, fine, lovely. The MD's just going, yeah, fine. So uh tempo, and Doreen didn't leave the centre of the room. She looked pretty nervous, blaster. So I was thinking, oh god, how do I make her feel comfortable? So I'm just going, Doreen, come over to the piano, come over to the piano, da da. Talking to the MD, the MD's.

SPEAKER_02 36:37

I don't know where this is gonna go.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

Um, and then the MD goes, great, starts playing. Doreen doesn't come in. I'm thinking, great, are you? And I went up to I was like, you're right, Doreen, you all okay? And then she was like, uh uh, I was like, oh okay, uh is there an issue with the music? And she and she went, uh uh why why am I here? And I thought, well, like, it was it was odd. And also, like, Doreen came in costume as well, or what I thought was costume. I thought, God, she's just tried.

SPEAKER_02 37:09

Doreen was playing cosplay?

SPEAKER_00 37:12

Doreen, bless her, was a homeless person who had come in off the street to obviously, it was a hot day to find some shelter. Obviously, was like, oh, there's a cracked door, sat down in the waiting area, and I had taken her into the audition room, and obviously she was baffled by the whole press. I was mortified, and like the creative big creator team as well, and the creatives honestly they couldn't hold it in. They were like, We are so sorry. I awful, awful anyway. I then went, well, we've got a break now, and the next person was waiting in the waiting room. I was like, give me five minutes. So I took Doreen to prep. I was like, Let me get you some food.

SPEAKER_01 37:50

Like you auditioned someone that was homeless. When you first started the story and you said, and then Doreen came through, I'm thinking Doreen thinks she's going to like a doctor's appointment or something.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

But it's the fact she went along with it.

SPEAKER_01 38:03

She went along with it.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Well, I mean, to be fair, I I was obviously like a we went through a tunnel. I came out and I was like, come on in!

SPEAKER_01 38:10

Give me the temperature!

SPEAKER_00 38:11

The creative team and Doreen's thinking, right? Okay, because yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:16

Oh my god, I can't I don't think a story on this podcast could top that.

SPEAKER_00 38:26

The director has never let me let live it down. Every time, and that is funny because whenever I'd be casting in whatever, whenever I've seen him and he's walked past and he's just gone, make sure it's the right person. Come in the room here, Tom.

SPEAKER_01 38:36

I'm like, Oh my gosh!

SPEAKER_00 38:40

Horrendous. But that's why Studio 7's dangerous because the draws are uh the doors ajar, and people always say, like, oh, be careful, don't make sure the actors take their stuff in the studio because people come in and nab things all the time, right? Oh poor Dorian came in and just wanted to have a sit down. And I was like, You've got a job interview, come on through.

SPEAKER_01 38:57

Can I tell can can I tell the story of when well I'll tell it, I won't mention what it was for or whatever. It's definitely not as funny as that. But obviously, you know, Tom's one of my best friends, and this industry is very, very small. So there have been cases where I've gone into the room and you're, you know, on the other side of the panel.

SPEAKER_02 39:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

But one time I panicked, and it doesn't happen often, it doesn't happen often, but one time I panicked, and then went over to him and shook his hand and said, Nice to meet you.

SPEAKER_00 39:28

Imagine me, I didn't even look at it.

SPEAKER_01 39:30

I was like, And I don't know why I did it.

SPEAKER_00 39:37

Just literally it's because you shook everyone's hand.

SPEAKER_01 39:40

That's what it was, that's what it was. And you were like, No, that's what it was. The pian the pianist had complimented that I'd because I cut my music, and at the top of the music there wasn't like the song or who wrote it. So I wrote the song name and I also wrote who composed it. And he was like, That's a really lovely touch that you've written, you know, who composed it, who was the lyrics. And he gave me a handshake to say that you know, thank you so much for coming in. And I was like, Thank you. And the panel were quite closed, so I was like, Well, I have to go down, and then I got to and I thought I can't not shake your hand because then I could then think, Well, she's rude. She's rude. Nice to meet you, and I walked out, and I've never lit that, I've never I've never lived that down. Oh, see you now. Yeah, lovely to meet you. Come to my house, nice to meet you. Jesus. Um going to go into the opposite side of uh the spectrum of what we're talking about. Um, I always like to keep it real on this podcast and talk about the not so glamorous side of the industry. What is something that I kind of like to keep this question open? What's something that you would change in the industry? What is something that you've struggled with? What is something that basically that the listeners can relate to, or or a misconception maybe of what people think? I know that's a bit I know that's a bit of an open question.

SPEAKER_00 41:06

Yeah. I suppose personally for me, it's like know who you are and don't don't be afraid of that. Do you know what I mean? Because I think with my career I've been so uh driven, right? Sometimes to the detriment, right, because I'm moving too quickly, right? And I'm just like go time. Sometimes like you have to take time for yourself, right? You know? But don't be afraid to go, who am I? That's enough. You know, because I think from being creatives but also like, you know, actors, directors, casting directors, whatever, everyone's a bit insecure.

SPEAKER_01 41:38

Everyone's everyone's scared of people's judgment of what they're doing.

SPEAKER_00 41:42

And I think for me, like after what I've done, I think what's quite liberating is I don't give a crap what anyone thinks about me now because I'm like That's the dream, I'm just here to do a good job.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

And you're passionate about it.

SPEAKER_00 41:54

Yeah, exactly. I'm just here to do a good job and just make sure that everyone's thriving and doing well on the list, right? You know, and in the business as well. Like, it's just making sure that everyone's happy and everyone feels seen and fulfilled, yeah. Because I think you can get onto this thing where you're on this roller coaster and suddenly you're like, I need more, I need more, I need more. And it's like, well, hang on, take a minute just to look back and go, actually, you've achieved so much. What's the song? Uh Binny Joe, uh Slow Down, cruise a child. Love it. That's my song. Do you know what I mean? Just to be like breathe.

SPEAKER_02 42:25

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:26

Because I think for me, like I'm always looking to the future, and that's the job of an agent, of course. It's always looking to the future of what's coming and going, right, I need to be on it, I need to be on it.

SPEAKER_01 42:34

I think you're naturally programmed like that as well. It's very similar to my brother. Yeah, he's always after what's next, what's the next goal? And I'm like, look back and actually see what you've done.

SPEAKER_00 42:45

And it's funny because it was only really at BKL when it all came together, all of these skills that I'd absorbed, that I went, Oh, oh, I'm good at this. And also, I think it depends on who's around you as well. Because I loved like the producer's office, there was so amazing. Like everyone was just so supportive, and everyone was there for each other. Yeah, and I think it was You had a good time, yeah, and it was so uplifting, and and and yeah, and even starting the business now, it's just a matter of me going, I've learned how not to do this from every corner of the industry. And it's coming back to it now and going, right, let's do this the the right way. Yeah, you know, and I suppose just learn from your mistakes. I've made so many mistakes, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:21

And that's totally normal and totally human.

SPEAKER_00 43:23

And it's about just going, learn from that, learn from that, and go, right, how do I take this forward and how do I improve this forward, you know? Not only me, but for the experience of other people, yeah. You know, my clients, the people I'm working with, castor directors, and that's why with me, it's just be real, cut the crap, there's no fluff, it's just honesty and transparency now. Yeah, and that's the way that I work because I think that's just that's how you do good business these days.

SPEAKER_01 43:47

Oh, absolutely. People people just want honest people, and I think sometimes people misconstrued as honesty as brutal when it's not the same thing. No, someone can be honest without being brutal, yeah. Like we can be kind and honest, it's constructive.

SPEAKER_00 44:00

Criticism and it's done with love, and also you know, I'd like to think that every castroom I've ever been in it's been very supportive and open. Yeah, and for me, it's a matter of making sure that you don't leave the room until you've justified why you're there. Oh, I love that, you know, and sometimes and I think I've annoyed some directors because I've just I've just gone, well, should we do it again, actually? Um, what was the note that you gave that last place? It would work on the you know, and and I, as a cast director, was quite vocal, I think. Yeah, purely because I'm there to make sure the actors do a good job. The director's doing his job to choose. I don't choose, I just provide, right? Yeah, but I'm on the actor's side as a casting director to go, we're gonna make sure you're gonna do a good job for that person.

SPEAKER_01 44:36

I think that's a common misconception, is that people think casting directors cast each individual person in the show. They don't make the decisions, they don't make the decisions, they provide options, yeah. So is it in in layman's terms, a casting director says, Here's the talent that I'm gonna provide, all these people I've brought into the room, you can now choose amongst them. That's what it is, right?

SPEAKER_00 44:57

And of course, from the experience of the years that you've had, you can advise.

SPEAKER_01 45:01

Yes, of course.

SPEAKER_00 45:02

Oh, this person's right for that, this person's got this skill set, you know, da.

SPEAKER_01 45:05

Or sorry, I interrupted you there, but or if someone came in and you're like, that's not their usual day, they might be sick today because 100%.

SPEAKER_00 45:12

Yeah, yeah. But essentially, you are, you know, it's glossy recruitment. You're literally going, here are the options that I think are right for this from the vision that you've told me. Have a look, what do you think, you know? And it's it's that collaboration with the creative team, and that's why I love BKL so much because it's so collaborative, then it's all done in-house where everyone knows everyone so well. Like Paul comes in, Paul Taylor Mills, obviously, and like you know, he's got his babies of shows, you know, and it's collaborating with different people in the office all the time that come in and out, and yeah, yeah, it's just creatively fulfilling, you know.

SPEAKER_01 45:42

Talking about um collaborative work and collaborations. Do you have uh do you have a certain creative or creature that you'd like you'd aspire to work with one day?

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Oh gosh.

SPEAKER_01 45:52

That's a big question.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

That's a big question, it really is.

SPEAKER_01 45:56

It's or someone that inspires you. Oh gosh. Apart from me.

SPEAKER_00 46:02

Apart from I mean, there's so many people that inspire me, like. Do you know, do you know who really inspires me? It's your brother.

SPEAKER_01 46:09

I knew you were gonna say that.

SPEAKER_00 46:11

He inspires me so much.

SPEAKER_01 46:13

Yes, he inspires me. He's made me such a yeah.

SPEAKER_00 46:17

He's so open to just meet, connect. Like, and that's what this industry is, that's what the job of an agent is, which I think has been a bit lost in recent years, where it's become a bit of a money game, I suppose. Where people have huge lists, they make loads of money, whatever. And it's like one of those jobs is about connecting at the end of the day, having that connection with the client and then connection with cast directors and meeting people together, and genuinely care.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

My brother's mindset, he's even changed my mindset over the years. Like, like, if I don't say so myself, like what a brilliant answer. Because like, people who don't know Jamie Neal get to know Jamie Neal, he's the most loving, caring, will do anything for anyone, likes to connect with real people, likes to create work, likes to direct, like, oh, I just love him so much.

SPEAKER_00 47:03

And yeah, the thing for me though is he's got the full package because some people can be amazing networkers, but they're not very talented or voice poster. Whereas he's just he's got yeah, he's got the whole thing. His career's shown that because it's so diverse and so colourful. Do you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 47:16

Like, I mean he's living in LA, so he must be doing something, right? Do you know what I mean? Directing in LA, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:22

But I think people like him are the future of this industry because oh wow, like the way that he works is the way that I think that I I work as well. But we're quite switched with the biggest.

SPEAKER_01 47:32

When you two, because obviously I FaceTime my brother last night, it literally happened last night. It's like they're on a business call. I'm not just like leaving too many. Yeah, literally it's like walking around and like talking and like the words that are coming out of your mouth, like talking about like oh yes, it was like the APC of the and I'm like, Well, it's not sorry, like it's just yeah, you two just connect on another level, and I I love that. Um we're about to go into the final segment uh of the podcast, and it is called the Five Minute Call, and it's where I give guests space to tell me their dreams, what they want to achieve, whether it be with Wayne White Wayne White, I have a habit of doing that. Wayne White.

SPEAKER_00 48:18

Wayne White Green.

SPEAKER_01 48:20

One, two, three, whether it be Wayne Wright Green, thank you. Um, whether that's like an I don't know, what are your dreams? It doesn't even have to be industry related.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

My dreams are firstly with the business, is essentially to my whole thing is about having high quality, low quantity, because it has to be select, it has to be elite, right? I'm not doing essentially, I think I I've done too much for this simply just about money. For me, it's about building a legacy, right? It's about making sure that whenever a casting director, producer, showrunner, whoever it is, sees on a casting sheet, oh one of Tom's is in, they're excited about it. Because oh, they're gonna bring something to the table. Here we go. Yeah, this one's gonna be good, get ready. Do you know I mean it's it's knowing what I I bring and what my my product is, I suppose, you know. Like the people that I look for have a very similar thing, they can find truth as an actor, they bring something to the table, and as a person, they can come into a room and lead it. Yeah, that's my biggest thing. Yeah, because if you can't lead it, you know, like you have to have that confidence. That's what I had as an actor, yeah. And that's what I try and instill because from watching so many casting processes, they're the people that get the job. Sometimes it's not the best people, it's the ones that can lead that show.

SPEAKER_01 49:34

May I also say what I think another one of your dreams is to own a yacht in the south of France.

SPEAKER_00 49:39

Oh god, one day, wouldn't that be lovely? Do you know what? It's just having somewhere which is like a better climate than the UK.

SPEAKER_01 49:48

As much as the weather's lovely at the moment, like it's just yeah, it's getting to the south of France with a picante! 100%.

SPEAKER_00 49:56

But I think the biggest thing for me is to feel fulfilled.

SPEAKER_01 49:59

Yeah, I agree.

SPEAKER_00 50:00

Because, like I said before, I've run away with myself so much in this industry, like, and for me it's just making sure that I can sit there and go, I've achieved what I wanted to, like, and I'm enjoying it, and I can now settle and just enjoy this without having to run. Yeah, I can essentially walk a bit now. Do you know what I mean? Wow, yeah. I think it it it it's it's always chasing for that peace, I suppose, of mind.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_00 50:25

Which is hard to find in this industry.

SPEAKER_01 50:26

Um, but we'll get there. Yeah, we will. Uh so we have a listener question for you.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 50:32

And your listener question is I'm currently represented at the moment, but it looks as if I'm not getting seen in the industry as much as I would like to. How would you go about this? And what is the advice that you would give?

SPEAKER_00 50:45

Currently wrapped not getting seen. Um, I would probably say two things. So I would say you need to have a meeting with your agent, and you need to have a very frank conversation, I think, and and a very honest conversation where you sit down and go, so what's happening here? And I wouldn't just accept, oh, it's quiet.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

Yeah, it's quiet.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

It's like, well, no, if it's been long enough now where you've not been seen, there's obviously something that isn't joining up here. So what is my product? Like, what is my brand essentially? You know, what is my casting? And and before you go to that meeting, make sure you come with those solutions already, you know. I want you to come and just go, okay, here's what my casting is the shows that I'm right for, the track I'm right for. Is that where my agents are? Like, do they agree? Firstly, you know what is my skill set? What am I what am I not doing well right now? What do I need to work on essentially? And ask your agent for that honest, transparent feedback, you know, because I think, especially with me and like my list, everyone's talented enough because they're already with me. That's not an issue for me.

SPEAKER_02 51:48

Got you.

SPEAKER_00 51:49

It's now my job to make sure things work. It could be the headshots, it could be the footage, it could be the way that you're walking into rooms. Let's get some feedback, right? Like, there's more than one way to skin a cat.

SPEAKER_02 51:59

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 51:59

And it may just mean, oh, well, you know, right now you're just you don't fit the the the the the mould for these things right now. So can we change your image? Can we, I don't know whether it is a haircut, whatnot, is it your rep? What is it? Do I not have the footage I need to push for?

SPEAKER_01 52:11

There's so many things to actually think about. It's not just the case of oh, getting seen, getting not.

SPEAKER_00 52:16

Yeah, exactly. You know, it's but also being really honest with yourself and saying the shows that are casting right now, whatever it is, do they suit me? Well, that's why you're not getting in the room because you're not suited to them right now. Do you know what I mean? For example.

SPEAKER_01 52:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 52:27

But if you're not getting seen, do something about it then.

SPEAKER_01 52:30

Yeah, take the range yourself.

SPEAKER_00 52:31

Because it's not just oh my agent's not getting me in the room. And I think that happens a lot where it's um, oh my agent, my agent. Send your agent self-tapes every month. Every month, even if it's one tape a month, it's footage they can use to push, you know, be proactive, do everything in your power, like I said, in your controllables, because that's when your agent then goes, Oh great, well, that's a really good tape, and start using that.

SPEAKER_01 52:53

And like they must want it, they're keen.

SPEAKER_00 52:54

Yeah, exactly, you know, but it also keeps you in their mind.

SPEAKER_01 52:58

Yeah, so true. Keeps you at the forefront.

SPEAKER_00 53:00

Because it happens sometimes when someone sends you a tape and you go, Oh god, God, they are a good actor, aren't they?

SPEAKER_01 53:05

You know, it's it's and like a reminder, you know.

SPEAKER_00 53:07

Ah and it depends how big people's lists are, right? Because if you've got a huge list, you do need that reminder, you know? Yeah. Because if it's a bit more select, it's a bit more different. Like, but I suppose, yeah, the advice is just have that meeting and work out what you need to change that's not working then. Because something's not working. You know?

SPEAKER_01 53:24

That's solid advice.

SPEAKER_00 53:25

Just be proactive about that.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

I love that. Um, thank you. Thank you so much for having me for coming on the pod.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

This is so weird.

SPEAKER_01 53:32

Literally, we're probably just gonna like chat for the next couple hours now, anyway. But genuinely, thank you so much for coming on to the pod. I honestly think like you've I I hope this gets lots of views because I I really think that the advice that you're giving is so beneficial to actors, creators, creatives, like anyone in this industry. Like, I think like people should listen to you. Um, so thank you so much for coming on, it's been a pleasure, and thank you guys for listening. And I will see you next week. Please like, subscribe, and comment and share, and share the love. Um see you next week.