[EP2] The Pit of Doing More...

In this episode of Root Issue Radio, Jill Young and Sue Hawkes explore why capable leaders sometimes start to feel like the “wrong person in the wrong seat.” They dig into how overcommitting, taking on too many “coulds,” and failing to delegate can drain energy, cloud judgment, and create burnout.

Jill and Sue unpack the shift from being a highly capable doer to becoming a leader who must ask for help, delegate well, and focus on what truly belongs in their genius zone. They also discuss how psychological safety, simplicity, and self-awareness help leaders stay grounded and solve issues with more clarity and less frustration.

Listener Takeaway

Great leadership is not about doing more; it is about doing the right things, at the right level, with the right support. When leaders simplify, delegate wisely, and stay in their energy zone, they create more clarity, more joy, and better results.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Coming to you live, it's Root Issue Radio with your hosts, expert EOS implementers, and co-authors of the Issues book, Jill Young and Sue Hawks.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

We're on a mission to help you remove friction, fast-track growth, and ignite your greatness. Dial in and let's dig deep.

SPEAKER_01 0:30

Indeed. Indeed. All right. Well, we promised everybody that we would chat about individuals and how sometimes they really do GWC the role. They really are the right person for the right seat. Uh, but then they get frustrated, they lose their focus, they get tired, they get worn out with issues. And sometimes humans don't show up in their best uh their best selves to solve issues. Um, so what do you think is going on there?

SPEAKER_00 1:07

I think it can be a number of things. So I think we should unpack this from different angles. So dive in. Do it. Well, I think depending on the size of your business, right? In our companies, we're often very capable people and you're normal. You're normal if you're a multitasker, or what I like to say a Swiss Army knife, right? Like you're all the things. And because you're all the things, even though we have a great accountability chart, we're working EOS, we are in a lane, we are in a seat. We look up and we go, Oh my gosh, you know what? I could do that too. I could do that too. And we say that so many times, or because we deliver and do what we say, people say, Hey, Jill, you should be a talk show host too. You know why? Because you did a really great teaser at the end of root issue radio. And we go, Yeah, I should do that. And then you go, Wait, what? I don't know if I really derive joy. And initially, while it's new or different for those people like myself, and I think you, we get really excited about the new thing. And on the flip side, we forget what we should be doing. We could doesn't mean we should. So when you do too many coulds, that capacity starts to overextend. And in a very real way, we don't delegate. So it becomes a delegation kind of issue. And so our capacity is constrained. And what was a right person, right seat, starts to look like, and I do use the words intentionally look like a wrong person, when in fact I'm just I've said yes to too much. I'm really becoming a wrong person because my attitude starts to tarnish, because I cannot physically in the hours of the day get the workload done, which we share in our first sessions with people in EOS time management. So I think that's one version of this where a right person in a right seat can begin to look like a wrong person or a wrong seat. They're just saying yes to too much and don't use their tools called delegate and elevate to start to say what is in the should column and what's in the can column.

SPEAKER_01 3:28

I love that. Sue, I wrote down a few words as you were talking, and it um two of them that I wrote down was it's because possibly we are so capable, you know, when we talk about GWC capacity to do it. And I've never really thought about it that way, that we we just keep taking on more and more because we're so capable. Some sometimes I'll share with leaders as they're in our session rooms, I'm like, hey, you've probably achieved or arrived here in this seat because of what you have been doing. You can do so much because of what you know, you know so much. And to move from that, that place of I can do so much for the company, I know so much about the company into now being a leader and delegating or managing or leading people who can do the doing is a psychological shift. It's a mindset shift. And it's um, it's actually a piece of adult development. It is moving from I can do this myself, which we need as we're growing up in our 20s and 30s, to individuate, to be a whole human being. And then at some point in our adult lives, we switch over to wait a minute, I can't do more unless I'm part of a team. And I see that the leaders who can uh who just consistently think they need to do more, uh, they get they get tired, they get frustrated, um, they they they retreat into isolation. Um, they retreat into blame, shame, um, irritation, resentment. And really, what our goal, one of my goals as a coach, is to help them live life from joy and positivity and optimism. And oh, Sue, you just unpacked that so well. Taking on so much capabilities.

SPEAKER_00 5:38

Well, I want to um dovetail something I've observed in you, and I actually pay attention in female leaders most. So please don't hear this gender-biased entirely, but I think it does pertain more to women than men. But you can correct me if you've seen differently. I'm not saying it's entirely true. Um often the not asking for help, not asking for what you need. I have watched you transform from a doer to an asker. And I so respect that because I'm a doer. I'm someone that will grab something and just go, and being able to say, hey, you know, who's the best person to do this? And I see this with our visionaries often. I see it with our female leaders more often, where that asking is so uncomfortable at first, at first, that until it's safe enough, people don't start going, oh, you mean when I ask, somebody actually does a better job, probably, possibly, than I could, has a different way of going about it. And that in and of itself, that new thinking, that new approach that might be uncomfortable, that might take more time, that might be faster, that in and of itself starts to create a safer environment for, oh, we can ask for what we need. We can be vulnerable and say, I don't know how, or I might be tired, or I might have, I might have run out of gas on that. Not because it's not great or important, but because, wow, in fact, there's I I I'm just maxed, right? Or I need someone who's better at that because that's a can, not a should.

SPEAKER_01 7:24

Yep. Um, I don't know if I notice it more in women leaders than than men leaders. Um and I'll have to think about that for a little bit.

unknown 7:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 7:36

Uh and I do notice that there is something that I see in leaders who can um, they're almost expanding their capacity on a daily, monthly, quarterly basis. And one of the things that I see that they are doing to avoid this burnout of looking like the wrong person in the wrong seat is they're also using these tools in their personal life. They uh, you know, maybe it was back in the 80s, 50s, I don't know, 70s, I wasn't around. But what I've heard is we tried to separate business and life. And it's like, well, this is my uh, I have a team who comes in and they they will carry a work phone and a life phone. And I'm like, how do you do that? No kidding. Separate. And it's just, it's just not true. We are just one human being. We're one human being. So to delegate effectively at work and then to not delegate effectively or ask for help, like you said, in our personal lives, it the energy moving from one to the other and one to the other, it your energy is leaking out of the funnel. So I know one of the things that I did early on is I I delegated a lot of home stuff. I delegated things to my children. I had as soon as my son was 16, he was picking up the little ones from school to just make this this well-rounded Jill where Jill was doing the things that she was excited about. Not laundry. Not laundry. Laundry didn't make that list. No, and as it turns out, I'm doing my own laundry again because I love it. It gives me energy again. So I'm always I'm always asking, where where am I uh where am I producing energy in the world that is uh that feels clean, that is clean energy. And to fold warm clothes out of the dryer these days feels really great.

SPEAKER_00 9:55

So I want to tag off of that because I think you've just described something so critical. I think too often many of us think people are like the table over there. She's always been that way, she always will be that way. That's who she is. And you just talked about laundry, which is funny but wonderful because you delegated it away, going, yeah, this isn't bringing me joy. It doesn't give you the energy you need at that moment in these circumstances with these people, right where we are at this time. You will never be there again. You never do the same session twice. And I hear our implementer friends, you know, talk about, oh, you know, I've I've gotten bored or stagnant in my um sessions. And I always think, wow, that just tells me I'm doing too much of one thing, or I'm at a time frame where maybe, like you did with laundry, I need to decrease that right now because it's just not where all the things, the alchemy of all the things in my life are lining up. So I might need less of or none of something. And that evolution happens to create different kinds of spaces, collaborative and individually. Like you said, there's no separation. I am wherever I am, and so I'm there and I might need a little less of something right now. That doesn't mean forever necessarily. It could, but it also could be wow, I love laundry and I love warm, clean things to fold. And I can wrap myself in that blanket or that towel. And in this moment, it's actually comforting or feels like completion, or it's something I can check off and I enjoy it. And you're not static, you're not stuck with one answer. One of my um teachers early in life, Lorraine, who you remind me of a ton, I call her Rainey. She said to me, and it these are simple words, but I remember it in a profound moment in my life. She goes, Sue, you can change your mind. But I want you to hear the gravity of that statement, not as you can change your mind like flippantly. This is a no, you can change your mind. And it's like that is a rewiring, that is a relearning, and that is also sometimes um a re-welcoming, right? It's stuff we already had that we can see with new eyes and experience anew at a time in life where you go, there's space for it now. It doesn't feel like a chore, it actually feels like a gift.

SPEAKER_01 12:37

Wow. A wise woman that rainy is.

SPEAKER_00 12:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:41

Zoo, you can change your mind. And I I'm just gonna shorten it a little bit and say, Zoo, you can change. I think that's what we're meant to do is change. Right. We're meant to change, we're meant to explore, expand, contract, do all of those things. Um, this uh this comment that Rainey had for you also brought up this element that when I'm teaching delegate and elevate to leaders, uh, one thing that I will say that popped into my mind of just only a few years ago, and we've been doing this for 10 years, is that don't delegate your genius. Don't delegate that great and love quadrant. Do not delegate that. And that's another thing that I see uh leaders getting burnt out in is they think they need to do these more important things. So they delegate things that are really bringing them joy. They're bringing it's bringing them joy. And I know that's been a big breakthrough with some of the leaders that I've worked with. It's like, no, no, no, keep that. Because if you give that away, if you delegate that and someone's not doing it as good as you are, you're gonna take it back or you're gonna feel stress or you're gonna want to um uh, you know, cut it up and uh correct it to death and you know, because they they can't do it as well as you can. So that's just another little tidbit for our leaders listening in here. Is have you, if you're worn out or you're thinking, ah, there's so many issues to solve, or you start to get that that pessimism, have you have you delegated your genius?

SPEAKER_00 14:27

Can I ask you a question? And oh, exactly. That was a great question, but it just sparked one for me. So for you, when you talked about I delegated away laundry and picking up kids and all of these things, but then you you embraced it back, make the bridge back to psychological safety on that, and how how you even began to think about like why would I take laundry back? And I'm hoping our listeners hear this broader than laundry. Yes, even though laundry is very important.

SPEAKER_01 15:01

Laundry is very important. Um, I'm gonna like feel into that right now, right here in this moment. Oh, this is so great. Sue, thank you for the question. Um until the question is asked, sometimes the answer doesn't even exist. So thank you for that. I'm going all the way back to where it started, and I noticed that in my team, we I had actually delegated so much away that it was becoming frustrating to me. And it was no longer simple. We had so many steps in our process that it was um I was paying somebody way too much to do things that were way too complex. And just like we teach our leaders, we're constantly looking at how do we simplify? Bring things back to a new level of simplicity. And this is uh thank you, Sue, for saying please see deeper than just laundry. Just one of those things that I just re-looked at it. I looked at it again. I have um my life has become simple, but I hadn't looked at exactly what issues my people were solving for me. And this laundry one was not one that I needed. Now, in the beginning, I'm like, oh my gosh, I haven't done my laundry for five years. Do I even know how to do that? And I then I did it one day, and I have done laundry in five years, please. But it as on a regular process basis. And what I found is there was real love, and it actually brought energy back to me in my slowing down. In my slowing down, in the gratitude, in like I said, the warmth of the laundry, the the process of pushing the buttons. I mean, you guys, laundry was not, it's not hard. It was just, I had to keep my mind on it. Um, and it felt good. Like, like sensational, pulling that laundry out of the dryer felt warm. And these days, Sue, I'm much more focused on my energy. And and uh because I know when I am centered and grounded and feeling good, then that's where I can expand to really listen for root issues for my clients. Uh so it it ended up in my love and great quadrant.

SPEAKER_00 17:37

So I just want to synthesize what I heard because I thought this was a rich way to dissect it because you really did just in the moment, I think, make a really good ladder for people to realize a few key things that I, at least for me, were highlights.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

Lovely.

SPEAKER_00 17:55

Um, it wasn't simple anymore. So for you listening, if it's not simple anymore, those are the issues to solve with your team because now we've either got too many cooks in the kitchen in this case, or too many people in the laundry room. Right. Like, why are we paying for and why are we making this hard? When in fact there's this new level we can reach, as Dan Sullivan would say, right? Of simplicity. And I think the best solves are simple. I I think people underestimate the power of when you're in a really safe space, when your team is really cooking, when the magic, if you will, happens. It's because it's simple. Like you go, duh. But the duh is like it clicks in place like a Lego clicking to another Lego, right? It just fits. And then the second thing is you delegated too much. I don't know if our teams talk about that enough. Where it's really, you know, at first, I think when you're growing and you're at a high rate of growth, you're used to just tossing things right and left. And I don't know. I know for me, there have been times in my life where I'm not as discerning about what I'm tossing and delegating, right? It's just get something off the plate, and that seems hard right now. And so, in this way, when you're talking about laundry, it seems hard right now. And I think those two words right now are really important. And so you do, but then when it gets complex, you unpack it because you're discerning again. You slow down, you ask a better question, and you go, Why is that hard? Laundry's not hard. Do I know how to do it? Just some fundamental basics that are so rich, I think, in there to slow down and realize, well, this isn't hard. And this is something actually that brings me a level of clarity and some space because I find things like I love working on a cricket machine and making things. Everyone loves to make things. I love to produce gifts and things. I don't like receiving them, but I like making them and being thoughtful why I'm making them, what I'm putting together, and then releasing it. And that kind of creativity comes with the space to think, also. It's its own kind of clarity break. But I'm doing something, it's not the kind we teach you, it's the kind that just makes life more expansive, I think.

SPEAKER_01 20:31

So you summarized that so well. And you know, this episode was all about leaders and when you're worn out and you show maybe you're showing up as the wrong person, wrong seat. And I I I think the simplicity, going back to simple, going to delegate, and asking yourself what gives you energy. Just like laundry and and cricket gives you energy.

SPEAKER_00 21:03

Joy.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

Joy. Joy. It's not all about productivity.

SPEAKER_00 21:09

Shouldn't to to win the game, simple wins, and it shouldn't feel like work, people. It should not feel like work.

SPEAKER_01 21:18

So how about leaving us um leaving this right here? It shouldn't feel like work. And um, I'm feeling like we've just unpacked two of the five leadership abilities and how it deals with issue solving. We've unpacked simplicity and delegating. I wonder in the next episode if we talk a little bit about predicting and how that adds to helping us stay focused, finding the right issue. Solving the right issue and when. How about that?

SPEAKER_00 21:55

I think that's genius, Jill. Let's unpack away.

SPEAKER_01 21:58

Let's do it. See everybody soon on the next episode of Root Issue Radio. How did you like my radio voice soon?

SPEAKER_00 22:08

I love your radio voice. Root issue radio. The radio. The root issue radio. Thanks for dialing in with us today to download the tools and order your own copy of issues. Go wherever you get books or visit eosworldwide.com.