[EP4] The Worry Comes in the How

In this episode of Root Issue Radio, Jill Young and Sue Hawkes explore disciplined thought and why creating space is essential for clear leadership. They discuss how leaders can slow down, think more clearly, and make room for better questions, better decisions, and better problem-solving. The conversation also connects disciplined thinking to the EOS Clarity Break and the practice of intentionally stepping back to create space for insight.

Jill shares how small changes in calendar structure, like building in 15-minute breaks, can create room for reflection, movement, and clearer thinking. Sue adds that leaders often need to “create the space to have the space to create,” and explains how overpacked schedules can block creativity, resilience, and presence.

The episode also highlights the power of questions, including Sue’s issues-focused question deck, which is designed to help teams create trust when truth is present but unspoken. Jill and Sue close by contrasting disciplined thought with worry, explaining that worry often lives in the “how,” while disciplined thought stays focused on the real root issue.

Listener Takeaway

Disciplined thought is not about doing less; it’s about creating enough space to think clearly, ask better questions, and find the real issue before rushing to solve the wrong one

Grab your copy of the Issues Book here!

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Coming to you live, it's Root Issue Radio with your hosts, expert EOS implementers, and co-authors of the Issues book, Jill Young and Sue Hawks.

SPEAKER_00 0:11

We're on a mission to help you remove friction, fast-track growth, and ignite your greatness. Dial in and let's dig deep.

SPEAKER_01 0:29

Oh my goodness, welcome to another episode of Root Issue Radio. There's my radio voice again. In the last couple of episodes, we have unpacked some of our five leadership abilities. We did some simplify, some delegate. Last episode we talked about predict. We're going to take a little detour from that. And I've been deeply thinking and feeling about this topic of disciplined thought lately. And thinking, I wrote a whole book on thinking, Sue. Commercial influence. Thank you. It's called the Thinking Advantage. And then, Sue, lately, you know, I wrote that book years ago. And lately I've been into like disciplined feeling and how powerful feeling is. But going back to thought, um, something that I've been unpacking for leaders is how beautiful our minds are. Our minds are beautiful. They're they're calculators, they take in so much data. I mean, we just take in date, so much data on a daily basis. Data on a daily basis. And our brains are so good at um filtering the noise and the static from what's really important. And some people say they're not, but I think they're really great. I know exactly I know when I'm hungry. I know um some of us can drive hypnotized and still know when to stop at a stop sign. I mean, that is every day. I know that is really disciplined thought, possibly. So going into, you know, the topic of root issues, what I've found is when leaders can have this clear mind and when they engage in some activities that help them have clear and focused thought, my goodness. So you've seen this too. We help a team slow down just by two minutes. Help them see some possibilities with some curious questions, and they go, boom, maybe that's the issue. Boom, and they see it so clearly. But sometimes they don't see it so clearly. So I'd love to just riff on some ways that leaders can see things clearly. What does disciplined thought look like to you, Sue?

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Well, I think you already touched on, you know, to slow down actually means you'll speed up. And way too often, as leaders in small businesses, we are great Swiss Army knives. We multitask, we move fast, we try and pack every minute instead of having space. And I like to say you have to create the space in order to create the space. Sorry, you have to create the space in order to have the space to create. So if you can't breathe, um, and I look at my calendar sometimes and I go, There's no time for a snack, there's no time for sunshine, there's no time to run to the restroom, like it's back to back to back because you weren't around. And so, and I keep trying to say to my teams and myself and my own team, without space, you're gonna get that version of me. And I just want everyone listening to think about how you function when you've put too much on the calendar any day of your life, even a weekend where it feels like quote unquote, there is not enough time. You're not your best, you're not creative, you're not resilient, you don't have access to pay attention the same way you do when your nervous system, when you're in a space of, like you said, two quiet minutes, just breathing deeply for some people, is enough to change how resourceful they are, what they're able to be present to, what they want to communicate and saying it differently, asking a question versus making a statement, um, wide angle lens, then zeroing in. You don't have the energy because your energy is in that frenetic worry, get shit done, hustle, hustle, hustle. I just need to get through this because the next thing's coming, I can't be late, kind of energy, which when I will just say we put too much on the calendar, number one, and do not create reflection time or greet morning, as my husband likes to say, make friends with the day. His pace of making friends with the day is much slower than mine. I always say to people, I came into this world caffeinated. I know when my energy is highest is first thing in the morning. I am up and my absolute best. I want to be working out, I want to be reflecting, I want to be capturing my to-do list and my ideas. But by about three o'clock, four o'clock, not my time. He would be the exact opposite. By about 10, his gas is starting to get pressed in. And with our teams, if we don't synthesize that, I think we mistakenly, I'll say I have mistakenly um come in thinking everyone's full on at seven in the morning. Everyone's ready to go. Instead of, oh, some people are still making friends with their day. And in fact, this afternoon they'll be asking me when I'm out of decisions. And it's the worst time to ask me anything.

unknown 6:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:26

How about for you? What does this mean?

SPEAKER_01 6:29

Um, you know, d this disciplined thought before I go into what it means for me. Um, Sue, uh you've just done just such a master at distilling things. Um, the first one you said is create the space. Create the space, create the space, create the space. We have a tool in EOS called the clarity break. And this clarity break um uh in its genius is an appointment on your calendar. We have tricked you into creating space for disciplined thought. And uh leaders will do it because it's on their calendar. It's so it's so funny. Uh but it is it is ideally uh space for you to just think. Just think, let things come to you. So a few years ago, um, you were coaching me, and it was this when you said create the space so you have space to create was so genius for me. And a couple of things that we did on my team, and this might be helpful for other leaders, is Lindsay and I automatically started it's disciplined, putting 15 minutes between every single appointment. And it gives me space to reflect, even just if it's a little bit, space to take care of a to-do, get a drink of water, walk outside and grab some sunshine, and teams, leaders, this is this is part of your work. This is where you do your disciplined thought. You let ideas come to you. So if you're thinking taking a break is lazy or you'll sleep when you're dead, or like I used to say, I want every moment to count. I want every moment to be productive. I don't feel productive unless I'm doing something every minute. I just shifted that in my brain, and it's those breaks are my work.

SPEAKER_00 8:37

Can I add two things? Yes, please. And ask one of them, ask you a question back. So I want to highlight what you said, which is getting some reflection time. And if you didn't catch the subtlety of what Jill said, she said, even if it's just a couple thoughts. So this isn't like, oh, I've got a journal now. What decoupling that this is hard is not natural. I find for most of my teams when they start working with us to schedule their clarity breaks, most of them fail. I know I did. And so my confessional in this is two things. Number one, I had to make it a scorecard item. That worked for me because I knew if I confess in front of my team, whether I'd done it or not, I'd stay honest. And it literally because I I had to unwire the productive monkey I am, which is I did exactly what Jill said, which is gotta make every minute count, gonna make sure I do everything I say, which I still work really hard to do because it's not natural for me. But to schedule that time. The second part of that in hacking myself, which that was my number one win, the second one was the second thing she said, and I want to ask how long it took you to learn this, because you said it was in coaching with me, which I don't even remember. So God bless me. Um, but who said a meeting has to be an hour long or a half hour long? We made up the construct called time. A meeting could be 45 minutes or 25 minutes or 50 minutes or 55 minutes, but we schedule them out of auto behavior and because of technology and calendars, that they're these round numbers and increments of 15. There is no truth to any of that, people. And as dumb as that sounds, that was a profound insight for me. And I'm still working with a new support person in my business to decouple her behavior that way because it's just not natural for most of us.

SPEAKER_01 10:48

That's a great way to uh buy back some time. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:52

What have you done to even make it easier, Jill? Or was it always natural for you?

SPEAKER_01 10:58

Mm-mm. Oh no, it was not always natural. But for some reason, my calendar really works for me and I will do what's on my calendar. So if I I won't shove a meeting in those 15-minute breaks. So it really was just an agreement. And then having Lindsay, who is my disciplined support support partner, who just that is that is our norm. Now, does it happen? It happens about 90% of the time now. We've got that space in the calendar. And once she decided, once we decided together and she started doing it, guess what, Sue? I still have have been able to meet every obligation. I've still been able to meet everybody that needs to meet with me. My days are not 14 hours long. Miraculously, magically, I'm still getting everything done that I need to do. I just have now space for these thoughts to drop in. And um I count it as part of my disciplined thought is those breaks to go move my body, to go take three deep breaths in the sunshine. It creates space for me to have this disciplined thought.

SPEAKER_00 12:13

I love that. And I love the fact that you'll just do what's on your calendar. I'm I'm one of those people, if any of you relate to that, that sometimes stuff comes up and I'm willing to move things on my calendar, which is not always easy. So I love that Jill is like, if it's there, I'm doing it that way. I have to have that support partner who's stronger than I am.

SPEAKER_01 12:39

Yep, yep, for sure. And it's I think it it gave me so much peace the week that I did it that it uh um that was stronger. That desire for a peaceful thought uh in space was stronger than the urge to get one more thing done. Uh Sue, you also unpacked another thing and disciplined that I would love to uh riff on. And this is the power of a question. The power of a question. So you have you have some cards that you've created with questions. Now, the first time I fell in love with Sue's questions was in um in her journal that she she printed. Was it called the Maximizing Success Journal?

SPEAKER_00 13:29

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_01 13:31

Really close. And you guys, these were so this journal was so awesome that it had to come in two volumes. And it had questions for weeks and days and lovely, and I just really fell in love with the power of a question when when Sue published that journal. There's this phrase I've been playing with lately that until a question is asked, the answer doesn't exist. And I'm just loving it, loving it. So, leaders to create this disciplined thought, um, consider asking more questions. And Sue, maybe you'll just kind of share with us a little bit about why you made that card deck of questions and how powerful that is.

SPEAKER_00 14:14

I couldn't have said it nicer than you just did. So thank you for that beautiful, unsolicited commercial. Um, the issues decoder deck, which is the issues decoder deck.

SPEAKER_01 14:28

How about the title?

SPEAKER_00 14:30

Yes, and it's a little card box. I have one open one I'm holding up for Jill currently, and it's got our issues book with our names right on it. It's the book companion edition because I have many sets of these at this point, but this one has 80 questions to create trust when truth is present but unspoken. So what Jill was just talking about, and again, thank you, is to get the most out of people, it's less talking and more inquiring because when you ask the question, you actually broaden, I think, what we're drawing from, right? We're getting, we're inviting it to be a team sport rather than an iSport. So when I come in and I say, hey, Jill, asking a question is really valuable, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, versus saying what kind of a question would unlock some answers for us around this. And this deck is bisection by component, right? So we have vision questions, people questions, data, issues, process and traction questions, but we also have reflection questions and what I call igniter cards. And the igniter cards are more meta questions that are designed to either be for your clarity break in your conference rooms, when your team's stuck, when you're stuck, so that you can hopefully, if you don't have the question top of mind, or you may not have all that beautiful reflection time we just talked about, you can draw something and say, Where does that send my brain? Right? Maybe it's just a journey you're gonna take for, you know, a short while, a minute or two, and maybe it's one where you go, ooh, like you did in an earlier episode and went, I'm gonna let that ruminate for a minute and I'm gonna, I hadn't thought about that. Let me see how that feels and what comes to mind. Because sometimes you have to chew on things, sometimes that answer isn't readily available, which is usually an indicator something amazing's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_01 16:34

Um, Sue, where can we get this card deck?

SPEAKER_00 16:38

Said card deck is on our website at sayyes.com. So we will make sure to put it in the show notes. For sure.

SPEAKER_01 16:46

And just remember, yes has two S's. Yes, and two Y's and two Y's if you're freaking if you're being technical. Um before we wrap up this episode, I just want to sprinkle in what I feel is the opposite of disciplined thought and see what you think about this. Um I'll just say it flat out. Worry is the opposite of disciplined thought. Worry ruminating, thinking about something over and over and over and over and over again. Um the the human uh let's see. Worr. Here's a quote. I don't know who it comes from, but I say it all the time. I should probably find out. Worry is a poor use of the creative mind.

SPEAKER_00 17:36

I love that phrase. You do have to find out who said that.

SPEAKER_01 17:39

I gotta find out who said that. Probably some famous psychologist or something.

SPEAKER_00 17:43

Or Jill Young in this.

SPEAKER_01 17:45

Maybe. Yeah, if I can't find it, then it's me. It's me. I've said it enough. Worry is a is a poor use of the creative mind. Now, what I love so much about the issues list and IDS as a team is you get that thing out of your head, out of the worry, onto paper, and then you just move that thing that's in your mind, worrying you through identify, discuss, and solve. So if you find yourself worried about things, you're like, I'm worried about this, I'm worried about that, that is a beautiful trigger word for you to get that thing on the issues list and let this issues list machine, let this algorithm work for you, let your team work for you. I've I've seen so many times where teams will come in and they're worried about something, they'll get it on the issues list and they'll say, Oh, Joe, we don't have time to solve that. That's gonna take us five hours because they've been worrying about it and thinking about everything that could go wrong. And when we just start to identify what's the root, discuss and solve, I've seen some of those five-hour issues. That kind of sounds like five-hour energy. The five-hour issues turn into five-minute issues just because they got it out of their head onto the issues list and just give it a chance. Give IDS a chance.

SPEAKER_00 19:19

Give it a chance. That sounded like a uh nice protest song right there. Give it a chance. I I do like what you're saying about worry because I I I don't think gratitude or creativity can coexist in that kind of state of mind. Right? They they can't coincide at the same time. Because I think worry is that loss of in an earlier episode when we talked about open optimism, right? We aren't worrying because we're excited. When you're excited, that's what we call use stress. And if for those of you who haven't looked up these great words, we tend to use the word stress as a negative, but there's actually a positive stress and negative stress. So negative stress is distress, but we drop the diss and we just call it stress, which is not in fact accurate. Use stress, EU stress, is a positive force. And that's what you were talking about with the optimism, Jill. There's energy and creativity. Creativity can't exist when you're going, this is wrong and that's bad, and it's hurtful and whatnot. And again, going back to what we've been talking about without that disciplined thinking, like really truly, you can't come with a better question. You're not asking a question. Worry is an intention. It's uh you're already predicting what's happening or could happen negatively, right? It's not a question, it's a finite road map. And you're trying to do every possible journey. It would be like me in Minnesota trying to say, How can I drive to Jill in Dallas? There are a hundred roads I could take. There are different ways I could get on a plane, I could rollerblade, I could walk, I could run, I could get on a train, I could do some combination of those. I would never run, by the way. But it doesn't do me any good to figure out every one of those. If I'm still in Minnesota, I've got to say, huh, what's the best way to get to Jill and for what? So that she and I do something. And she might be like, Well, you don't have to come to Dallas. Let's meet in the middle. I've got this location. And all of a sudden it's like, oh my goodness. But I never asked that question because I was stressed about and worried about which way I'm going to get there, which I would oversimplify to say we've got to be more curious about what the root is than how we're going to solve it. And I think the worry. comes from the how, not the what. If we can stay in the what, there's a hundred hows. There's a hundred different options. But if we can be in what difference does this make? Why is this important to us? How does it align with what we've already decided? And then let the how emerge in this moment together, total creativity. Wow.

SPEAKER_01 22:27

Wow. Wow wow. Mic drop Sue Hawks. And you just gave me a new phrase the worry comes in the how. If you're worrying about it, it might be because you're thinking about the solve, not identifying the root. Oh, that's beautiful. That's beautiful Sue.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Thanks for dialing in with us today to download the tools and order your own copy of issues. Go wherever you get books or visit eosworldwide.com