Episode 9 - Julie and Elsie Miller - Turning of a Page

Every educator has chapters.

In this episode of The Honoring Educators Podcast, Jon sits down with longtime friend, high school classmate, and educational leader Julie Miller for a conversation about the people, experiences, and lessons that have shaped her journey in education. Along the way, Julie shares an exciting announcement about the next chapter of her career.

To wrap up the episode, Julie’s daughter, Elsie, joins the conversation to offer a student’s perspective on great educators, what makes school a place where students feel they belong, and the unique experience of growing up in a family of educators.

📖 Chapter One – The First Pages

The educators who inspired Julie’s journey

Early influences and choosing education

Why leadership?

📖 Chapter Two – The Story So Far

A review of her professional journey to this point

Advocacy, relationships, and serving students

Proud moments and memorable experiences

📖 Chapter Three – Turning of a Page

Julie announces the next chapter of her career

What drew her to this opportunity

The culture she hopes to help build

📖 Epilogue – Through Elsie’s Eyes

Honoring educators who have impacted her life

What students wish every educator knew

What makes school feel welcoming and supportive

Julie’s and Dad’s “superpowers” as educators

Thank you, Julie and Elsie, for sharing your story and reminding us that every great educator—and every great school—continues to grow one chapter at a time.

Transcript

SPEAKER_05 0:08

All right, everybody. Welcome back to episode nine of the Honoring Educators Podcast. Um, I always say this at the entry of every episode, but I am very, very excited for this one. Uh, this one's been in the hopper since the day I announced that we're going to be doing a podcast. I am sitting across the table from a high school classmate. Um, I am sitting here with Julie Miller. For those in the in the community that know Julie, um, she and I go way back to high school. And when I decided to do a podcast, she reached out and she's like, Oh my God, that's exciting. And you know, we kind of got to talking about, of course, she has to be, you know, on an episode at some point because she's like one of my OG, you know, just high school friends and then educators in the community. So Julie and I have been kind of planning this one for a while. Um, so we're gonna kind of get into on this podcast, we do a thing called the honoring, which is my way of kind of just saying who is the person that I'm sitting across from and why are they on the podcast? But there's a little extra tease here at the at the end of the honoring section. So before we kick it off with with Julie kind of sharing her thoughts, um, I just want to kind of get into a couple things. So, like I said, Julie and I went to high school together at Navelle Catholic Central. Um, and then once I graduated, she was a few years behind me, she kind of went off and did her thing, and I went off and did my thing. But we've always, not always, there's a chunk of your career where you are out of state, but for the last many years, we've both been doing our thing here in Saginaw County. Um, so I've kind of been able to see her career unfold from afar. Uh, I've never worked day in and day out with Julie, so I don't know exactly what that looks like. But from everything I've heard, watched from afar, um, even when you put something on Facebook recently, reading the comments underneath, I told Julie this uh yesterday or two days ago. It's clear you mean a lot to people and you've made a big impact on people. And one of the things that I've noticed with Julie is like the word advocacy comes to mind. Um, she's always going to be looking out for students and staff that that are um in a position of needing somebody in their corner. Um, she's very, very strong in terms of advocacy skills, um, supporting students that might be a little disenfranchised or students with disabilities or any number of walks of life. Um, Julie is Julie's the person that you want in your corner because she's gonna fight for you. Um, so I I am so excited to kind of just sit, listen, and learn because there are parts of her career that I'm just not familiar with. Um, so I'm gonna actually learn a lot today. Um, but as we kind of get into this conversation, part of where this is gonna go too is um we're gonna kind of break this this episode down into chapters. Julie is a self-described nerd, so is Mr. John. And um, so we kind of are rolling with this idea of chapters, if you will. So um, one of the chapters that we're gonna talk about later, Julie teased a little bit on Facebook. She put a post out that said she's gonna kind of be announcing a career move that she's making, but we're not gonna skip to that chapter right off the bat. We're gonna make the listeners wait a little bit. I want to hear some of those earlier chapters to help us understand kind of where we're at now before we turn that page to go to that to that next chapter. Sound fair?

SPEAKER_02 3:30

Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 3:30

All right, Julie. Well, welcome to the Honoring Educators Podcast. I'm so, so excited for this one. Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_02 3:37

Thank you for having me. I'm excited too. A little nervous, but I'm excited.

SPEAKER_05 3:41

We're always a little nervous. And I always say, so well, let's let's go there. I always do a check-in at the beginning and I always talk zones of regulation. Always yellow. Um, where are you at? I don't care how you describe it, but kind of where are you at right now?

SPEAKER_03 3:52

Feel probably yellow, I think. Um yeah, just feeling a little bit nervous that I'm gonna you know say the wrong things or not know what to say.

SPEAKER_05 4:01

That's fair. And we I always tell people we have an edit button. So when we get done with this, if we if we say something that we're just not comfortable with, we just edit that right out. So are we ready to rock and roll?

SPEAKER_02 4:12

I think so.

SPEAKER_05 4:12

All right, so kind of chapter one, if you will, Julie. Um who kind of helped create your initial pages of your story, of your book? So if we look back to elementary, middle, high school, maybe in college, I don't know the answer to this. How did how did Julie become an educator in the first place? Was there anybody that kind of prompted that, that supported you, that encouraged that?

SPEAKER_03 4:37

For sure. Um, I think a lot of teachers probably knew that they wanted to be teachers right away. Um, I, if you ask anyone that knew me when I was younger, they will say that I played school a lot. Um, but I was kind of a different kid, a weird kid. Um I didn't just play things, I was very into it, very much into it, um, perseverated a bit on it. So I would transform like my entire basement into a school. I had desks, I had a make-believe overhead projector. Um, so I was really into playing school. And I would ask my teachers in elementary school about first grade, I can remember, Mrs. Burns. Um, and I asked her for old textbooks, all any papers that she didn't need anymore. And I would take those home and play with them and correct them. And I had grade books, and we went to yard sales and um, you know, and I got things to make a classroom. I had name tags on the desks, I had everything. I mean, it was it was a bit much, it was very over the top, but um yeah, so I think I've just always wanted to be a teacher. Um I really, really loved my elementary school teachers, um, first grade, second grade, fourth grade. Um, I still actually keep in touch with some of them. Um some big things happened in my life, and some of my elementary school teachers would come and um and you know, and and say hi. And like I just I built a school at recently uh Hanley, and my eighth grade teacher came to the opening and it was just you know so cool.

SPEAKER_05 6:41

Came full circle. Somebody that was was your teacher years ago is there to support you when you're doing big things.

SPEAKER_03 6:47

Yes, so you know, shout out to Mrs. Backleman. Um, she's still pretty cool. And um yeah, I don't know. So I think a lot of my elementary school teachers really inspired me, made it look really cool to be a teacher, made it look very fun. Um, and then you know, as I got older, the I really never lost that um idea of wanting to be a teacher. I think I probably just got more serious about it and always wanted to basically advocate, like you said, or really be the kind of teacher that I needed when I was growing up. And I think once you do that, you you can almost become addicted to it. So it's like at some point, you know, after I had kids, I was I want to be the kind of educator that I want my kids to have.

SPEAKER_05 7:44

So let me ask you this. I'm gonna jump in here. So when you say uh the teacher that you needed, what is it that Julie felt like she needed? What was the right teacher for you back in the day?

SPEAKER_03 7:54

Well, I think back in the day, there wasn't a ton of knowledge and understanding about kids that weren't different than me.

SPEAKER_04 8:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 8:02

Um and I would say that I probably needed that. I think I had some really great strengths, but I think that if I would have had someone who noticed those, um, maybe like gifts, then and taught me how to manage them or utilize them, you know, um, a lot of the classic things, like I would procrastinate and then cram and then ace it. So that was like reinforcing and not really healthy, you know. But um, you know, group work, I think this is very lots of uh people can and lots of probably female millennials can uh agree with me that you know they loved being in groups for the socialization, but ended up taking charge and doing all of it.

SPEAKER_05 8:51

Yep. Group work is something and it never stops being right.

SPEAKER_03 8:56

And um, you know, I think all of those things kind of shape who you are, the way you interact with um in school really kind of becomes how you interact and work, and for better or worse, you know, you either learn what to do or what not to do in those situations.

SPEAKER_05 9:15

So awesome. Yeah. Um if we flip the page of that story, so we kind of have a little bit, and some of that was very interesting to me because I didn't know any any of that about you, you know, like when you were younger and like kind of the playing of school and things. And I have some colleagues who have have children that are very much into that too. And I kind of see this budding educator in the children because they've talked very similar to that. Like the kids are just very into kind of modeling that at home. This is what I see day in and day out of school, and that looks really cool or really fun to me. And they just kind of take it and you're like, You are in fifth grade, but you are a future teacher for sure. And I never knew that about you. So we've now come full circle. So now let's kind of flip the page and let's go to chapter two. So we've kind of looked at kind of where you came from. Now let's kind of look at maybe where you've been. So now let's say once Julie became an educator, kind of what is that journey and what have you been doing for the last, I don't know, 15 years? It feels crazy to say that 15, 20 years, but I guess that means we're getting old, Julie.

SPEAKER_03 10:13

But yeah. Um, it's been about 15 years since um graduated college. So first I went out to Colorado. Um then it was about 2009, I think, um, when I graduated college and 2008, maybe. Um, and there were jobs everywhere, but they were kind of harder to get then. I remember going to an uh a job fair at Michigan State and applying all over the country, and um ended up in Colorado and was out there for a few years and I taught um Denver public schools, self-contained autism. Um, it seemed like it seemed like Denver was kind of ahead of the game because then when we when we moved back um to Michigan, the things that we were doing in Denver, they were just kind of sprouting up in Michigan. So I walked into a position when I came back that wasn't even in the classroom. It was actually with the intermediate school district. Um, and it was a coaching position, but it was force social emotional needs for early childhood learners. So I had this experience in Denver that was just the norm of what you know classrooms um for kids with autism were were doing. And then um came back here and found this job and loved it. So I did that for five years. And um by then, I at the end of that five years, I was married and had my first child and was pregnant with my second. So um I needed something that was like a little bit more stable, closer to home. I was traveling a lot at that um coaching job. And um, so I went back to the classroom and I was a resource teacher and um I did that, loved it. I was at Merrill Park, loved it. Um, and they needed a principal and kind of like, you know, we we need a good leader, and who are we gonna have? And having a bad principal is the worst. It can ruin a good job, it can ruin a good school culture and climate. And um, after a couple people were like, you should just do it, I was like, okay, I'll just do it because then we know that we're not gonna, you know, we know who we're gonna get.

SPEAKER_05 12:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 12:53

Um so I did it and I loved it.

SPEAKER_05 12:56

I was just gonna ask in in my world, we call it tapping. Like I'm I'm thinking of like Aaron Sankowski, one of my former bosses. There's a couple of times where she had tapped me and and she wasn't staring at me, but she she might have said something like, It just feels like you might be ready for something different, or I could see you doing doing this type of work. So I always uh have a lot of appreciation for Aaron for kind of just tapping me on the shoulder and just kind of nudging me to go, maybe I see something in you that you don't see yourself. So there were people that were kind of nudging you and kind of tapping you and saying, This could be something a good fit for you.

SPEAKER_03 13:24

Yes. Um, in fact, I think we got tapped at the same time because we both went to that leadership institute.

SPEAKER_05 13:29

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. The leadership academy. Yep, exactly.

SPEAKER_03 13:33

So that was like right now. Shout out to RSI's leadership academies. Yeah, look at what they did. Um, at least we know it's successful. Um, but yeah, so I I got tapped a few times and I I wanted to, but I had young kids, you know. So it was like as many people were tapping me, they were like, You've got a baby. Um, so and I was pretty young, you know, I was only about seven years into my career. Um, but I I did it and I loved it. I loved being a principal. Um that first year, 2019, um is like the first chapter of my principalship.

SPEAKER_04 14:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_03 14:16

Um, and I dubbed that chapter the baptism because uh I was baptized very quickly. And I think there's a saying where you baptized by fire. We had that first year, we had um a fire at the literal fire. A literal fire. We had a flood, a literal flood.

SPEAKER_05 14:35

This sounds very biblical.

unknown 14:37

Very biblical.

SPEAKER_03 14:38

Um, we had a tornado on the very last day of school that ripped through the Merrill Park neighborhood. Um, and we of course had the COVID-19 pandemic. So I survived that year and thought to myself, like, I it cannot get any worse than this year. So I was like, I'm gonna keep going. And then um, you know, we we struggled with what do we do after COVID, hybrid, all that. So um hybrid learning, all that stuff. So I learned a lot in a very short amount of time. Um and for the first few years of my career, I didn't know what a normal year was gonna feel like or look like. So I mean, that has its its pros and cons. But at that point I was all in.

SPEAKER_05 15:29

Okay. See, I've heard you talk about Merrill Park and some of the conversations we've had. I know I I I've heard you speak so fondly of that community, and like I've heard you call it like that perfect neighborhood school. And it's where I I just I I glean these things from you again, watching from afar, but the sense of community, the sense of we're in this together, you're gonna show up in the school and we're gonna so talk to me about that. What does that mean to you to be part of that community or to build a community?

SPEAKER_03 15:56

Well, and I think there's something special about like generational families, like the teachers are in a school for so long that they have grand students. Like I that I love that. Um, and actually, most of the schools at all three of the schools that I've been at um so far in my career, that's happened. There's been um teachers that have been there for a long time and families that have been there for a long time. And I just think that speaks volumes to what kind of school culture and climate that they have. Um there's faith-based, you know, local faith-based partners and um business partners that you know chip in when when needed. And there's people in the neighborhood that look out for the school, and you know, like you can just feel that. That's that's uh that's what Moral Park was. That's what that's what it felt like.

SPEAKER_05 16:55

I love that. Um, looking back, I there's other parts of what I I know that you kind of um were part of at Sagan Public, but like what are what are some of those things that you're most proud of? Some whether we call it an accomplishment on your behalf or maybe part of a bigger effort that uh whether it was a school thing or a district wide thing, but what are those things that when you look back, you know, because in a minute we're gonna turn the page, but let's talk about those things in this last 10 years that that Julie looks back and says, I'm really proud to have been part of something like that.

SPEAKER_03 17:27

Yeah, there's some big ones. There's some resume builders for sure. Um I think one of the one of the taps I got um within my first year of being a principal was from the superintendent, and he came to my school. Um, and you know, when you're in a big district and the superintendent comes to your school, it's either a really good thing or a really bad thing. So I always get a little nervous, but he came and asked me to to be part of the bond campaign. Um, and I said yes, because I mean, he's gonna say no. Um, but I said yes, of course, I would, you know, I'd be honored to, but um really have no idea what that means. And so I get on the first meeting, they're like, oh, it's gonna be once a month meeting. It's not a big deal. So I get in, mind you, I'm the youngest principal. Okay. So most of the committees that I'm on, I'm also the youngest person on the committee. So I get on and they're like, Well, we need a social media chairperson, and everyone's just like, Well, obviously, you like we don't even know what social media is in 2019, so can you do it? So I'm like, sure, I can run a Facebook page, like absolutely way more than that. Way more than that. So, I mean, I am a baby, an infant principal, and I'm now doing uh this social media campaign for uh a huge a hundred million dollar bond that was gonna change the course of Saginaw Public Schools. Um, so and you know, if you do know me or you work with me, you know that if I do something, I'm doing it. Like we're doing it. We're doing it. So I went all in. Um I came up with these crazy ideas where I would, you know, watch all the social media trends and see what people were questioning about the bond, what myths are going around that we need to debunk. And so then I would form those into like an interview style kind of like a podcast back then. Um, and we did videos. So I interviewed the superintendent, you know, but your your voters are asking why they should pay for this bond and why they should do it. What are you gonna do with the money? What did you do with the last money? You know, all these hard questions. Again, infant yeah, principals asking the superintendent. And um, I learned a ton, but that was a huge, that was a huge accomplishment. We got the bond, um, a hundred million dollars. We built brand new schools. One of them, I was again tapped on the shoulder. Um I think maybe you should, you know, apply for this principalship at this at Hanley. Um and so I did. And um, that was a huge that changed my life, that changed my career. Um uh moving to Hanley. And I again very happy at Merrill Park. But moving to Hanley was I knew it was something that was gonna be life-changing, and it was. Um I moved in at a time when we were just in the designing phase. So I worked with these amazing people who I had connections with from um childhood, you know, Hendrick, yeah, um Zach Bernbaum, you know, like um some familiarity, at least with the players involved. Absolutely. Um, uh, you know, Grand Construction. Uh so it was just it was great. It was great to see some old friends and also to um, you know, to build something. It was nice. I again very young in my career to be able to do something like this, where I just helped to design a building, helped to uh, you know, I knew every inch of that building. I know exactly what material, the color combinations, you know, everything. Um, the change specs, everything, you know, everything. Um it was just such a monumental experience. And I was so excited to to be a part of it. Um and one of I think one of the things I'm most proud about is when I got on board, I looked around at all the stakeholders. They had um, they had the superintendent, of course, the um The building and operations direct, like everyone at the table, um, you know, Mr. Hendrick and um everyone was there. And I was like, Well, we're missing the biggest stakeholder of them all, kids, you know. So they were like, What are kids gonna do? And I was like, Well, what do you mean? What are they gonna do? They're gonna live here, you know, they need to, they're the ones that are gonna pick out what kind of desks, what you know, what kind of lacquers and that kind of stuff. So of course, as soon as, you know, like I brought that up, they were like, That's a great idea. I, you know, like we're absolutely so we we added a um a team of kids. I made I love that made up a little application and I made them, you know, write an essay about what they wanted to do, why they wanted to do it. Um and and also to like do a build uh a blueprint of what they wanted the playground to look like or a special part of the school. Got tons of interest, and then we went through like three rounds of selections.

SPEAKER_05 23:08

These kids went through it.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yes. So then we had teachers picking, we had I I called some of the old prints, old Hanley principals to come and be part of the selection, and we we narrowed it down to some kids, and it was really cool. They got to be part of board meetings, they got to go to um the construction site, they were there, they signed the beam on inside. They were part when when they poured the first um foundation, the cement, they were there for that. Like they watched it, they got to be part of it. Um, I have so many just fond memories of taking tours with the kids um and the teachers, and like that was just a really special part of that whole experience. And then um, they were there when we did the ribbon cutting, and I don't know, it was just it was a really, really cool experience. I'm very proud of that, those two things. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 24:04

I love that. Um, what about like in in what and it doesn't matter what building you've been in, because I know you I know you've been a principal or a staff member in a number of different buildings, but maybe some things that happened within those buildings that um are kind of near and dear to your heart, whether they're initiatives or clubs or anything that you've kind of helped develop to do a number of things, whether it's building culture and climate or allowing students to express themselves. Like, what are some of those things?

SPEAKER_03 24:32

Um, you know, at all three of my schools, there the kids would come to me, which I I have an open door policy. Um lots of times my administrative assistant or secretaries would be like, I hate your open door policy. Like you have too many people waiting in line street, like this is, you know, it's like you're a customer service rep and you just have like people wrapped around the building. But I loved it because people felt like they could come to me with their ideas, their concerns, um, everything in between. So we I I came up with a system where they would have to, if you if you care enough about it, it's not just you know a little tattle. Yeah, if you care enough about it, you will write about it. So at any age, you can fill out a concern report um or you know what whatever your concern is, your idea, whatever it is, you can fill it out and submit it to me, and I would read every single one of them and I follow up on them, whether you know I have to delegate it or um or what, but lots of concerns have come to me over the years through that system that were the you know, the brainchild to some really cool initiatives, whether it was um, you know, whether we actually ended up doing it or not is another story. But for example, we had kids who um would calculate the number of minutes that they were actually allowed to eat after the transition time and going through the lunch and cleaning up and all that, and it was not a substantial amount of time. And then they also really supported that research with how long does it take for kids to eat, and um, you know, how important it is for them to eat, and and da-da-da-da-da. So they came, you know, up with a pretty good, a pretty good case. Um, so we did present that to the food service committee, the food service department, and um we tried to make some changes, you know, some systems more efficient in the lunchroom so that they could have some more devoted time to eat. Um, they of course wanted an hour instead of you know 20 minutes, but don't we know we met somewhere in the middle, and um I think that they were happy, but just knowing that you know there are systems in place that allow kids to be a part of making change and um having their voice heard is probably the the coolest part.

SPEAKER_05 27:10

Yeah, it's that that has surfaced a few times already in this conversation. We've been recording for almost a half an hour, and there's been a number of instances where elevating student voice and getting their perspective, because I love what you said. It like, you know, us old people can sit around in a room and talk all day long, but right, why not get the voice right from the students themselves? So that's pretty cool that you're able to kind of elevate them and give them like a system really to, you know, if it matters to you, then we're gonna give you a way to communicate that and to share your thoughts. I love, I absolutely love that.

SPEAKER_03 27:39

So yeah, and once once, you know, if the kids catch on, there's less tattling around trivial stuff and they, you know, do the work, they do the work, you know, they're like, Well, I have a petition here with 47 signatures that we want to do this and that. So um, you know, it's brought spirit days, it's brought, you know, assemblies, um, recycling programs. Um, one of the initiatives was that we throw away too much food. So we actually um started a share cart, which then was implemented district wide, you know, so lots of good comes from from elevating student voice. And I think that that's again, that's why I started this in the first place is to be the type of teacher that I needed. And I think I had, you know, great ideas back then. And I don't know if anyone knew about it.

SPEAKER_05 28:34

Yeah, if anybody ever said, hey, what are some of your ideas to make this school a better place?

SPEAKER_03 28:38

Absolutely. So um, and I I know that my kids have good ideas too, you know. So my daughter challenged, you know, in third grade, she challenged the district's rule for girls to be allowed to play football. And um, I don't even think she wanted to play football, but um, she did not like that rule. So um she challenged it. And the um at the time, the assistant superintendent in charge of athletics was like, you know what? Okay. And she wrote, you know, she wrote a letter, she did all things. Um she actually, I'm pretty sure, 99% sure, that she cited the uh UDHR, the universal, what is it, the Universal Declaration of Human Rights in that um letter.

SPEAKER_05 29:25

So well researched.

SPEAKER_03 29:27

Yeah. Yep, and she did it. She she played um with her pink sweatpants on. And um, yeah, so those are some things that that's really cool. Yeah, that make me really proud.

SPEAKER_05 29:40

That's very cool. All right, so we're now getting to that part of the story where we're gonna flip a page here. And again, you teased something on Facebook recently, and like on my Facebook page, the honoring educators Facebook page, I started seeing ding ding dang like people are eager to hear whatever it is that you have to say here. Um, I thank you, I suppose, because I didn't know you were gonna do that, and then it generated people coming to my page, and I'm like, oh, there's there's people out there that want to hear whatever it is that Julie has to share. So let's flip the page, let's give you kind of an opportunity here to kind of let those people that are tuning in that are saying, All right, you guys have been talking for 30 minutes. This is all wonderful, but I want to know what's up with Julie and where she's going next. So I'm gonna quite literally turn the page for you. If you hear that in the mic, uh the page has been turned. So, Julie, the floor is yours. Kind of what's your next stop as an educator?

SPEAKER_03 30:37

So, yeah, this has been bittersweet because I um have been a principal and an employee at Saganum Public Schools for a decade now. Um, and for the most part, really loved, you know, working there and the population that we serve and the people that I worked with. And um yeah, so I made the decision to step away from that large urban district and um, you know, to really think about what's best for me and my family, my mental health, my overall well-being, and um kind of scale back the the ups and downs, the roller coaster of a big district like that, um, and really focus in on why, what my why, which we force teachers to do every year at the beginning of the year. Um, so I really kind of reevaluated that. And um I want to be in a school, in a school district that everyone knows each other, we know each other's strengths. When we are on a team together, we can trust in each other and assign tasks based on those strengths and really work smarter, not harder. And um, so I am moving away from that large district and I am going to a very small district. Um, and I am going to be the elementary principal in St. Charles. Um, and I am very excited. The team already there is strong, the school is strong. I don't have to build anything, I don't have to fix anything, I don't have to, you know, reinvent the wheel. Like I'm walking into something that is established, and I just get to be a part of it and do what I love to do, which is be a principal. Um, and I'm just really, really looking forward to that and looking forward to all of the exciting things about being having the time to be a principal and not having huge looming projects. Sure. In addition to being a principal.

SPEAKER_05 32:58

So if you can hear the excitement in her voice, there's excitement in my voice too. Because for those that might be aware, and I'm sure there's some listeners that aren't, I work in St. Charles. So when Julie and I first started talking about this episode, right when I announced that I was gonna do a podcast, it was just hey, you know, like you're a friend from a long time ago, and we both are working in education, let's talk. But when this came up, it's like, oh, now we now we really need to talk. Um, so Julie and I, um, over the course of the summer have just become very close colleagues now. We're gonna be seeing each other all the time. So I'm super excited about that because everything that she's talked about um are the same things that are near and dear to my heart. You know, how do we elevate student voice? How do we build community and culture, all of those things? And when I sat through a handful of interviews and meetings and different things with Julie already, it's like she's she's speaking that that same language, and it feels very, very comforting to me to know that um the principal of one of the buildings that I'm going to be serving in is wired in that same way. So I think there's some really, really great things on the horizon. So, and like you said, I I can speak to this and I'll just brag about St. Charles Elventure for a minute. I think you're walking into a great situation there. You you used some words a second ago. You didn't say superpowers, but you're like, I want to be able to like utilize people's strikes. I call them superpowers. There are some phenomenal staff members in this building um in the district, and there's some very intense superpowers that people have. So just knowing kind of your language and terminology, I think that's gonna be a great fit for you to kind of you know assess who's there and what they do and what can they do really well. And I think that's gonna be a lot of fun to kind of put those things together with you.

SPEAKER_03 34:37

So yeah, I'm uh I'm looking forward to this being the last packup of my office and move in of my office, you know.

SPEAKER_05 34:47

Um having helped you move a little bit of my office when it's 94 degrees outside. I hope it's the last time you have to move offices too.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

And so does my husband.

SPEAKER_03 34:57

Um, but yeah, it has been um three big moves in my career. So this is the fourth and hopefully the final. Um, but I'm really, really excited. I think that this is this is gonna be good. Um, the people that I've met so far, it's like we've known each other for a long time, which I know is weird to say, but you know, um from Emily to Beth to everybody, you know, Jessica, everybody. It's just um they understand what I'm saying. They uh I understand what they're saying, what they want is what I want. And not only that, but the people that we've hired um or plan to hire are fantastic people too. And it's just it's unbelievable almost how there's so many good people in one spot. So I just feel really lucky about that. I just the opportunities, the possibilities are endless with how much stuff we can do. I just know that St. Charles is gonna be on the map for everybody. It's a little village right now, but watch out, yep, watch out surrounding districts um because we're gonna do some cool stuff. Yeah, definitely gonna do some cool stuff.

SPEAKER_05 36:11

Yep, I love it. Um, like there's some great people that are leaving. Like, I'm gonna give a shout out to Heather, our principal that is retiring after a long career. Oh, this is another thing. I actually wrote a note here. You talked about in your previous stops, Merrill Park in particular, where you're like, I like that like generational vibe. Like somebody that might be working there has grandkids in the building, or the same families have had generations come through. You're going into that in St. Carl's. There are people there that um they know everybody's name, they know everybody's family. They've they taught the mom, and now they got the kid coming through. And there is you'll see a lot of that. Um, and that's there's just a lot of good people. And I maybe I don't know how else to say it, but I don't think there's a better compliment really than to say there's just a lot of really good people there, and that's a great place to start. Yes, I think that.

SPEAKER_03 37:01

And speaking of Heather, the transition, like she kept saying, I'm gonna, I'm gonna put some stuff together for my exit. I'm gonna put some stuff like literally, she gave everything, everything, opening staff meeting notes, maps of the building, you know, everything. So it's like she, and you can tell that that type of person who's out going, I mean, she was in on my interview, she was picking her replacement. You know, I've never done that as a principal. And this has been my third time. So I've never been able to be a part of that process. And she did that, she um helped to pick me and then set me up for success. And I just think that speaks volumes for that district, yeah. Because, you know, like you're walking away from something and you want nothing but the best for them going forward. And I think that that again is why I'm happy to be in a school district like this.

SPEAKER_05 37:58

Yeah, well, we're we're super happy to have you. So, for you know, maybe there's a you know, I don't know how many staff members in St. Charles even know that I have a podcast, or if they do, do they listen? I don't know. But if there's a staff member, if there's a family that maybe has a kid that goes to St. Charles Elementary, if there's a student that learned about Mr. John's podcast, and there are because they've told me that they've found my podcast. So what are they getting in, Miss Miller as their incoming principal? Who is this person that's gonna be in the hallways? It's been Miss Zalek and other principals for a long time. But now we have Miss Miller coming in. We met a student there the other day and I introduced you, so he gets a little vibe of Julie now, but what what what can other families, staff members, students expect?

SPEAKER_03 38:39

Well, they definitely so I'm gonna be there. So the visibility is gonna be high. I'm gonna be at, you know, arrival, dismissal, lunch. Um, I'm gonna be in the classrooms, I'm gonna get to know the kids. I don't think I've ever gone a full school year and not known every single kid in the building. Yeah. Um, and I like to get to know their names, their families, um, what what their quirks are, how they might need support, what their strengths are, that kind of thing. Um, you know, I I like to go to the IEP meetings. I like to know, you know, exactly what that every kid's getting exactly what they need. Um so and I do all of that not to micromanage or be a control freak. I definitely believe that teachers are the experts in their classrooms and they have full autonomy. Um, I'm just there to support and make sure that everyone is getting what they need when they need it. So I think parents and um staff should feel excited and relieved to know that I'm gonna do what I say I'm gonna do and I'm gonna do what's best for the kids.

unknown 39:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 39:54

And like I said in the beginning, I'm gonna do what I would want my kids, the principal to do. And I think I make most decisions based on that. Sure. Or I fight for those decisions, you know.

SPEAKER_05 40:07

I love that. No, I'm I'm super excited to be working with you in the future. I think the kids are gonna love uh seeing you in the hallway and getting to know you. And I know that's gonna, like you said, I'm gonna know every kid's name at the end of the year. Um, if I'm guessing that building will have 250 to 300 kids, so I don't know what your typical uh enrollment neighbor's dog is very excited right now if you can hear that in the mic, because I sure as that can. Um so yeah, so there's gonna be 250 to 300 little uh little uh students that you're gonna get to know really well and they're awesome. I I I love working in that building, so we're we're very excited to have you. So um we have now come to a point in this episode where we are gonna literally and figuratively turn the page again. So this episode for the listeners at home, you're going, Wait, man, we had to wait 30 minutes to get the the big news from Julie. But we have another surprise for you. We are about to do something that we've never done before here on the Honoring Educators Podcast. It's a newer podcast. This is episode nine. Um, but I am so so excited to do what's happening right now that you guys can't see, but there's some shifting of the seats because what you think is just Julie and I having a conversation, which it has been. Um, Julie messaged me afterwards and she's like, Hey, can I come over in the afternoon after my daughter and I go get our fingernails done? And I'm like, absolutely, I'll be there. So when she said that, I'm like, yeah, she can of course come. And then I start thinking, I'm like, well, she can do more than just come and sit here and be silent during the interview. If she's comfortable, I said, I would love to get the student perspective almost in the same way that Julie's like in schools going, how do I get information from students? So Julie's daughter, Elsie, is sitting across the bike now. We have had a swapping of the seats. Julie is old news now. We are sitting here with Elsie Miller. Um, so Elsie, I'm gonna just kind of pause and let you tell us who you are, where you go to school, what grade you're in, and then I'll kind of I have a couple other questions that I thought up for you if you're comfortable.

SPEAKER_01 42:07

All right.

SPEAKER_05 42:07

Thank you for being here.

SPEAKER_01 42:08

Thank you for having me. Um, I'm Elsie, um Julie's daughter, and I am 12 years old. I go to SASA middle school, and I am in theater concentration, and I'm going into seventh grade.

SPEAKER_05 42:23

You're going into seventh grade. Awesome. So, Elsie, when you're not at school, or maybe even when you're at school, what are what are some of the things you said you're into theater? What are some of those kind of passions, interest areas, you know, what gets you excited about whether again being at school or maybe some extracurricular type stuff out of school?

SPEAKER_01 42:38

Um, I really like having sports at school. I think that's like a great opportunity for kids to express themselves with sports and just have something to do if they can't have that or access that at home. They can just have that at school and be able to do that and express themselves through sports, which I really like because I like volleyball, I like soccer, I like basketball, football, a little bit of football. Kind of she can throw the point. I can throw she can throw. Yeah. Um, I think that's definitely great. And then I like the concept of having like art and being able to express yourself through drawings and paintings, and just I feel like that's also as somebody that's not artistic at all, um, not artistic in like drawing or painting.

SPEAKER_05 43:24

I I think I have artistic or creative things that I do. Um, but I'm a huge advocate for that in our schools because that might be the reason the kid wants to come to school is maybe there's the art class or uh an extracurricular class and things like that. Some some of our kids, that's that's something that's such a strong interest area for them that that it might quit literally be what gets them to school. So I think offering those and having those as options is really important. So let me ask you this. I I asked your mom the same question, but now I have to ask you, you're in it right now, and that's what I'm so excited to get your perspective because um you're not looking back, you know, when you get old like us. You know, some of the details get a little fuzzy. Well, you're right in it. So when I ask you, are there any educators in your background? Uh, it could have been a kindergarten teacher, it could have been a your custodian in third grade, it could have been a principal, maybe named mom, that has um graced the hallways of a building that you've been blessed to attend. But are there any educators in your background that you think deserve a shout out from the rooftops?

SPEAKER_01 44:24

Yeah, there's definitely a few. Um once I moved to Hanley, there I was just welcomed by so many teachers that just like wanted to comfort kids and and understand kids rather than just teach teach the kids. And um, yeah, having my mom there was really helpful. And I'm gonna give a shout out to her, of course. Yeah, and then um there was one teacher who really helped me understand how to do many things in the classroom and like be myself, um, and that was Miss Boynton. She was my fifth grade teacher, and she just helped me understand things so I could just be better in the classroom, and she definitely helped me a lot.

SPEAKER_05 45:11

So Miss Boynton. All right. So it's almost like when your mom is saying, like, what type of teacher did she need when she was younger? So maybe in Miss Boynton you found that type of teacher that just connects with you and kind of helps support and guide you. So that's beautiful. Um, another question for you. Um, if you had two minutes, let's say, and I'm not gonna time you, but if you had a a little window of opportunity, and let's just assume you're talking to educators, it doesn't have to be just a teacher, it could be custodians or secretaries, but what is it that we can be doing in schools to make school a more uh joyful place for students? So I'm kind of putting you on the spot to speak for other students. Um, and you can't speak for everybody, of course, but from your experience, what are things that we can be doing to make your school experience better? So that like all of our educators listening, time to get your notepad out and take notes because Elsie's gonna kind of walk us through what is it that um that brings joy, that brings support, that makes students feel good at school.

SPEAKER_01 46:10

I really think just having a safe environment and having teachers that you can just like feel comfortable to talk to about anything you need. And like if there's anything at home that's bothering you and is like impacting your school life and how you're working, I feel like that's good to be able to have a comfortable educator to talk to about. And even if it's just like a random teacher, like not even your teacher, just like a kindergarten teacher that you love. I think that's very, very important. And yeah.

SPEAKER_05 46:38

Yeah. So like in in our old people meetings at school, we often call those trusted adults, somebody that is in that building. It doesn't have to be your actual teacher. Um, you know, I always say it could be a custodian, it could be the secretary, but somebody that you can go to to talk about things. It's interesting that you didn't say, I need somebody that can teach me uh you know a mathematical principle or something. But it often comes back to, hey, we have lives outside school and things that are going on to be able to connect on those levels and kind of let them know. Anything else that we can be doing?

SPEAKER_01 47:08

That's really it. I feel like just being there for students and not just like putting all this work on them and expecting them to just do this while something's happening.

SPEAKER_04 47:19

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

It's just I've dealt with that before. There's stuff that there's been stuff that's happening at home sometimes, and it just been felt pressured to just do work.

SPEAKER_04 47:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 47:29

But I have teachers and have had teachers who helped me be able to work on stuff even while I wasn't having the greatest time at home.

SPEAKER_05 47:37

Sure, that's awesome. I think that speaks to the heart of you know what education really boils down to is you know being there for each other. Yeah, we're gonna get all this work done. That's I mean, that's one of the realities of school, but also recognizing that there's a lot more that goes into that. Um, so I love hearing that. So now I'm gonna put you on the spot again. We're gonna we're gonna kind of shift the attention back to your mom, but in instead of letting her talk, I want you to talk. You already heard me say this because Elsie's been kind of sitting here as a fly on the wall until we called her in. Um, what are some of your mom's superpowers? And by that, it could be what are the things that make her tick, make her talk, uh, the the things that she does that she's really strong with, that you've seen her not only as mom at home, but as maybe a principal at school. So again, I'm trying to learn about my my principal now that I'm gonna be working with at school. What are her superpowers? What does she bring to the table?

SPEAKER_01 48:30

Definitely being there. I don't know, I've mentioned like being there for students a lot. She is definitely there for students. She's always making sure that they're okay and that they have a safe environment and they have stuff that they need. If they don't have it at home, they can have it at school. And she's definitely gone above and beyond with that. She's forced me to go to stores and buy stuff. That's okay. I love doing it. Yeah, that's it. School shopping. Yeah. Yeah, that. And um, something that makes her tick. Wow. Um, definitely having people that she likes and just being able to be comfortable with them and being able to laugh with them and just having someone who shares interests with her and like all her nerdy little interests. That that definitely too.

SPEAKER_05 49:17

I always tell my guests being nerdy on this podcast is a badge of honor. Welcome to the club, Julie.

SPEAKER_04 49:22

Thank you.

SPEAKER_05 49:23

Yeah. All right. Um, I have two more questions for you. I I don't think I'm putting you on the spot with this one. I hope I'm not. And if I am you to say I'm putting you on the spot and we'll we'll cut it right out. But I've heard through the grapevine that your mom's not the only educator in your family, that your dad is a pretty cool educator. This is what I've heard. I've never worked with your dad. But what are some of your dad's superpowers?

SPEAKER_01 49:47

So he worked at Loomis for a little bit, and um, he was an AI, an academic interventionist, and he he really liked um being with his students, and um he's always wanted to be like a BI, a behavior interventionist. And um, I just think that he's very good with kids and understanding them and getting them to work rather than just forcing them to work. He finds ways to connect with them and uses that to get them to work so they're comfortable and not just being forced to work like other educators do.

SPEAKER_05 50:24

And that is a superpower. Um, I've heard a couple of these things about him, and I'm like, I'm gonna get to learn a little bit about your dad by asking you. Um, he sounds like he's got some really strong superpowers too. So I figured you come from a family of educators. We're talking about education. Um, so we'll take the spotlight off Julie for a minute and we'll shine it on your dad. So that's awesome. Thanks for sharing. My last question to you, and you may not have an answer to this, but what does Elsie see herself doing in the future? Are you a future educator? Are you playing school at home or do you see yourself doing something different?

SPEAKER_01 50:54

I love this question. I have played school at home, but I've never really seen myself fully as an educator. Um, as you know, I do theater and I've always wanted to be an actress since like third grade. And I see myself being an actress because that's just my passion. And I see myself just being out there in the spotlight and just being able to fulfill people and being able to just entertain them. That's one of my dreams. And then also something completely different from that being a lawyer or a therapist. I have I have lots of plans.

SPEAKER_05 51:27

Okay. I like this.

SPEAKER_01 51:28

Yeah, those ones are just experts.

SPEAKER_05 51:30

I like this. And you know, I know this is not the big time here. This is the Honoring Educators Podcast. You know, we've done 10 episodes, so that we wouldn't say you've reached the pinnacle of uh entertainment here being on this podcast, but you are wildly comfortable, it seems, talking in front of a microphone and kind of being on on stage. So I can see something like that in your future because most people that sit in that seat get very, very nervous. I'm very nervous. Well, it doesn't show, and maybe that's maybe that's one of your superpowers is that even when you're nervous or anxious, you still rise and elevate to that. And um, you're explaining yourself very well. And it's been an absolute pleasure to kind of tap into some of those perspectives. So you can be a repeat guest on here, just so you know. Um, do either of you have questions for me?

SPEAKER_03 52:17

Oh, geez. We did not come prepared.

SPEAKER_05 52:19

That's okay. You don't have to, but I just want to make this a reciprocal conversation if you had any questions for me.

SPEAKER_03 52:25

Ooh, I like this.

SPEAKER_05 52:27

Oh, now she's thinking. Now the lawyer part of her is thinking.

SPEAKER_01 52:32

Is there anything that you think your educator peers could do better that maybe you're doing or like something on the oh that's a deep question.

SPEAKER_05 52:42

Do I think there's anything that we could be doing better? Um, I think a lot of the things that we've talked about in this episode are things that I think we're we do, but can we can we do them better? Can we do them with more intentionality? I think all of those things about recognizing that students have a lot going on sometimes and taking that moment to connect with them on those levels. So when I see that maybe your motivation or what appears to be your motivation is dipping in class, I don't just write that off as ah, they're unmotivated. It's what else could be going on. I think, I think staff members do a wonderful job of that, but I don't think you can ever do more, you know. I think you can always do more in that area. Um I think the way we approach discipline, I think the way we approach um, you know, when when when when things happen in schools that don't meet our expectations, I feel like, and I'm not talking about St. Charles or any particular school, but just in general, I think we we often shift to what is the consequence for that behavior. And I think there's absolutely a time and a place for all those consequences, but I also think there's a an opportunity for us to go, we don't have to have a consequence for a behavior that never happened because we supported a student differently before that behavior and kind of meeting student needs um to try to be very preventative rather than reactive. So you'll get me in a very, very big conversation from just having conversations with you, John.

SPEAKER_03 54:10

Um I've heard you say a couple of times that if we are giving students what they need, we probably won't see as many behaviors. And I think that that's really true. And I think that um, you know, no matter what curriculum we have, the job is always going to be to teach them, you know, the standards, teach them their education. But I think that, you know, we keep doing that year after year after year, and sometimes it's not working. And what's the one thing that we maybe need to do more of? And that's pay attention to how to support them better. Yeah. Maybe it's not a new curriculum that we need or a rehaul or an unpacking of the state standards. Maybe it's we need to focus on who we have and what they need. And then if we can do that, then we can worry about the standards afterwards.

SPEAKER_05 55:05

I often think of student behavior as like a barometer, you know, it's like a temperature check of, you know, when student behavior climbs up in our buildings, like that's a sign that, okay, there's there's kind of a missing piece, or maybe students aren't getting a certain need met, or there's there, it's just an indicator to me that something is amiss. Um, it doesn't make a kid a bad kid. And if a kid's having behaviors in a classroom, it doesn't make a teacher a bad teacher. It just means there's there's there's maybe a gap in the system, or there's an unmet need potentially. Um, but maybe it's a need that we can help fulfill for the teacher, or it could be a purely a student need. Um, so those are the way my brain works, Elsie, is like, how can we do better in schools? I think we can just really think about when we see things happening, how can we be preventative of those things and to prevent those from happening, or to minimize when they do happen. So um I almost recorded an episode a couple days ago, but I was up north and I got to rock hunting and didn't record an episode because I'm a huge nerd. Um, but my next episode, I LC, I do some of these that I call them Johnny on the spot episodes where it's just me talking, which can you imagine just listening to me for 45 minutes? But that might be my next episode, is where I take a moment to just say, here's my core philosophies. And these are the things that I bring to work with me every day. And when I try to do some systems work in our in our buildings, um, this is the package that's coming with that. This is the why behind what it is that I'm trying to do. So I might have to just message you guys and say, here's my Johnny on the spot episode, and I'll probably talk a little bit more in depth on the question that you're asking.

SPEAKER_04 56:41

So yeah.

SPEAKER_05 56:42

All right, you guys. I can't thank you both enough. This has been so unique. And then I didn't bring, I didn't know you're bringing in a ringer here that was gonna be able to just take over this episode in this way. So this has been really cool. I was so excited when your mom said that, not only that you're coming, but when I had messaged her, I'm like, well, she can be on the episode if she wants, because I think that's really cool. And she's like, Oh my god, she would love that, even though you're gonna be nervous. Um, I just I was glowing. I was telling my wife last night, I'm like, we're watching uh the World Cup game last night, and I'm messaging back and forth. I'm like, this is unfolding where I'm gonna have an opportunity to get a student voice here. So um you've allowed me to kind of open a door and get a glimpse into education from a perspective that I think is missing in a lot of our conversations and kind of public discourse in education. So for you to be um, well, here's another thing that I bring to schools or that I'm gonna try to embed is I think there's a time to have safe spaces, and you talked about that as our schools creating an opportunity for students to feel comfortable. And but I think there's an opportunity to create brave spaces too, and those spaces that allow students to take risks and to develop a new skill or try something. Um, and you have embraced a brave space here today, and I want to thank you for that. Your mom, too. Um, she's probably a little more comfortable being on stage because her roles in the past, but um, sitting in front of a microphone is a little bit unique for everybody for you guys to show up and do that and kind of share your stories with me and the audience, um, however big or small that audience may be, we don't know. Um, but I'm I'm super happy that we were able to kind of get this recorded. So without further ado, I will end this episode, episode nine of the Honoring Educators Podcast, with my new principal, one of my new principals, Julie Miller, and I am so excited to be able to say that. So um until next time, y'all, I will be in touch uh hopefully with some new episodes in the coming weeks. So thanks to guys for listening, and thanks to Team Miller here for participating. Appreciate it. Thank you. You're very welcome.

SPEAKER_00 58:44

If it died, we can make it down.