The Guys Talk Bullying (Part 1)

The guys talk bullying: how its changed/what it was like for us.

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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:02

Hey everybody, we want to take a quick moment and shout out Jeff who emailed in at thegroveguise.com. If you too want to email in and talk about your experience with the Grove Guys, feel free to do so. Jeff, thank you so much for being one of the first ones to tell us a little bit about you and how you're enjoying the podcast. Hopefully we keep producing content that you enjoy. Also, make sure you go back and check out some of the episodes. One you might enjoy in particular would be the one with Logan and rising valor. So go ahead and check that out. Jeff, for the rest of you, if you are in the Grove City area, you should check out the back to school picnic this Sunday, August 2nd from 1 to 4. Information on that will be down in the show notes. Thanks again. How's it going, everybody? Got John here at the Grove Guys. Got Steve, Chad, and back by special request. Mark.

SPEAKER_03 1:07

Is it a special request if we're the one that requested him? It doesn't matter. It doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_04 1:13

It was special until you blew it. And now it's not special. I enjoy being here.

SPEAKER_00 1:17

It's good to be back.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

All right. Ron, unfortunately, is not able to make it, so that is why Mark is here. But as Mark knows, he's welcome anytime. And we will arguably be talking about what we will talk about tonight again with Ron to get his thoughts and opinions on it. But that being said, what we're talking about tonight is bullying and how it's changed over the years, the effects of it, what it looks like, just the whole concept of bullying. Because you know, we have a wide span of the generations here. And then as we've mentioned before, all the other Grove guys have children, some of which are in the younger generations now that grew up with the internet, that grew up with you know that whole community being really prevalent in their lives. Um and me saying that as a millennial who grew up where the internet was just you know in its infancy and the evolution of how bullying has affected it's been the same thing over and over again, but yet it shows up in you know different ways and shows up with a different face, uh, but still the same overall concept. Um, and I know personally for me, you know, I had a neighborhood bully, I had school bullies, and then right around 13, 14, I kind of sprouted up and got really tall. And then in high school became the guy that would shove it back in the bully's face. You know, saw somebody getting bullied and went over and slammed bullies into lockers and said, What are you doing? Don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 2:54

You know, bullied the bullies.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

Yeah, you're not better than them. You know, this is not cool. If I see it again, I'm gonna get Mr. Tyree involved. And Mr. Tyree at my school was he was a security guard, but he was this ex-football player who was like 6'8 and like 300 pounds, like just the biggest dude you've ever seen walking through a he's bigger than every student we had. Um but you know, when he got involved, I saw him get involved in a couple fights, and he would just have a kid in each arm just holding him straight out and walk into the principal's office. Uh so but you know, it's that whole concept of you know, we hear in uh media all the time a bully comes from a bullied home. Um, you know, but that may not be the case always. You know, the bully gets bullied and that's why they bully, you know, it's like that seems like there's too much bullying going on right there. Saying that word too much there. But I feel like part of it is true, but part of it also, you know, isn't true. Um and so kind of how we're gonna approach this is to just kind of talk about our once again through the generations because we're all different ages here, all four of us. And just kind of how we noticed it, how it affected us, and then toward the end, we'll kind of look down to our kids and see you know what do we notice about today? And we can even, you know, talk about bullies in politics if we really if we really get there. We might not, but if we do, we do. Um so that's kind of what we're talking about. So do we want to do this in age order, or do you want me going first? Youngest first and then oldest last, or how do we want to do this?

SPEAKER_04 4:30

That means I have to go sooner. I could I think who guess who has something to say?

SPEAKER_02 4:37

Yeah, so it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_00 4:38

Well, I guess oldest wise is different because if we didn't have the uh internet kind of thing. So uh it's hard for me when I think back um like uh is it I didn't really think maybe it was bullying at first, just like male pecking order was a big deal back in my time, especially elementary schools. Which usually meant bigger. So for me, I was always the smallest in my class. And uh, you know, that I didn't really get bullied for that too much until like a fourth grade. I broke my front teeth, and then you know, they fixed it by putting two big silver caps on my two front teeth. So now I got the littlest of the littlest kid, and then um then I got two uh front teeth, and I got all the names thrown at me for that. So like that was probably the gist of the bullying there. And so what I just did was didn't talk. So I just stopped talking and um which isn't like me, but that's that's what I did.

SPEAKER_02 5:40

And and uh but that's also the like the coping mechanism of the of being bullied, you know, that's yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

And and you know, when you said you wanted to talk about this, and I started thinking about that, and I'm like, you know, we we we lived in uh where I lived, there were schools everywhere because there were so many kids, you know. And uh literally the school uh elementary school I went to was like 12 houses away from where I lived. And we could go home for lunch. So like from fourth grade on, I just I didn't have to deal with anything in the uh playground, you know, or cafeteria, yeah, that period. I just went home for lunch and stayed there until I came back. So I guess that was a way of uh just not putting myself out there for the chance to be bullied, I guess. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 6:32

Right. But that could also again be that whole, you know, as I said before, that coping mechanism of, you know, you you realize, oh, if I go home, A, it's easier and I like being home because who doesn't? And then B, you know, it's just I I don't have to be around anybody and no one's gonna be making fun of me, at least for this what, 30, 40 minute period or whatever it is.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

Yeah. Yeah. So I I don't know. So it wasn't like uh my I I don't know if we there's probably more bullying than I'm what I'm thinking about, but I wasn't bullied or repressed memories now. They're repressed. I mean my wife has this story, she um about elementary school where you know one of the other kids was picking on the Down syndrome kids, and she went up to him and just punched him, actually broke his nose. I don't know who the bully was there anymore, right? He didn't do that anymore. So, like, but we can't do that now because it's the I for I thing. That's wrong, I guess.

SPEAKER_02 7:33

But uh at the time it was. Yeah, meeting violence with violence isn't great, but you know, it did it it is effective. Sometimes necessary.

SPEAKER_04 7:44

So I so my you know, Chad, you brought you brought up that uh as we've talked about on the episodes before previous, I grew up my uh teen years in uh children's home. And uh I think Chad sounded like you presumed that that's where the bullying curve is. I didn't really get bullied there. But most of that's probably because it wasn't quite a children's home the way that you think of a children's home, probably. So we'll go into that maybe another time. But prior to coming to the children's home, I was um my my family was destitute. Like I I was the kid literally had tape on my glasses, had duct tape holding my shoes together, right? Like holes in my clothes, uh you know, not not the most clean uh person. My hair was long, uh, you know. Which is funny to think of right now, right? Yeah, I know.

SPEAKER_02 8:58

It's uh little Steve with hair.

SPEAKER_04 9:00

Yeah, little Steve had a lot of hair and uh didn't take care of it when he had it, and now he has nothing and is very envious of little Steve. But that's a whole other that's also another topic for another day. But I I used to get uh you know, I obviously made fun of for being the poor kid, you know, had to sit in uh the seats with the other unpopular kids on the bus. Like our and our bus ride wasn't like five minutes, like we were on the bus for like an hour from our well, maybe not an hour, maybe 40 minutes from from ours out from our little town to the high school or the middle school rather. Um and that bus ride was probably the most terrifying, not terrifying, it's probably a stretch, but the most uh anxious uh I've ever been in my life because the the other kids, particularly uh a fella who whose father at the time was the sheriff of our county, and he grew up to later be the sheriff of the county. He was the biggest bully in that school, and he would run like we would drive, uh the bus would go from the middle school, drop all the real kids off, and drop us off at the elementary school in our town, and then we would walk home from there. But we would get off the bus, he would run up behind me and hit me in the head so hard, like from behind. He was such a punk. Oh and he's now the sheriff of the uh I don't know that he's the sheriff any longer, he's likely retired now. Uh, but he if he is a retired, I'm sure he's still the sheriff. Um and maybe he learned his lesson. I mean, I haven't seen him since we were I don't know, what are you in seventh grade 12?

SPEAKER_00 11:09

Some point 13, probably 12, 13.

SPEAKER_04 11:12

1213. So uh, you know, I I haven't seen him for a long, long time. Um but he was he was a horrible child. Horrible. Horrible, dumb as a stone, too. Dumb as a stone, but that's neither here nor there. Uh but anyway, so during during that time, um you know, that was right before I ended up at the at the home. So I was being bullied very much right up until that time. And then when I went into foster care uh and then onto the home, that's when my fortunes kind of changed, right? Because now there was money for clothing and haircuts and laundry and new shoes and you know, whatever, whatever the case was. So my entire persona began to change almost immediately. That's right. And um, I remember when I when we went when I went to the home, uh my my very first I don't know, week or so at the uh school there, one of the kids, uh his name is Jeremy Tome. He's a lawyer, he lives in Tip City, great guy. He's like, he's like, hey man, uh I know that you're in a you know coming from a tough place, but my parents have some resources, and I'd like to help you out. Now remember, we're like ninth grade, eighth, ninth grade ish.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

That's like 15 years old, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:07

Yeah, so so he's like, hey, I I I I think I can help you out. And I'm like, I look, I what I I can't say no, right? The whole there's a lot of backstory, but the whole reason I went to the home in the first place was for a fresh start, right? So I'm like, okay, well, we had to get permission from the home because it's a if they help me out, then it's a donation, blah, blah, blah. You know, all the nonsense that goes along with that. So long story short, uh, Jeremy's family had a lot of money because they his dad uh had a construction company and built homes and whatever. So they were they were pretty well to do. So Jeremy used his allowance to take me to his hairdresser to get me contacts instead of glasses, right? So so that that whole I mean, it was literally like uh home makeover kind of a situation, right?

SPEAKER_02 14:10

And it's like the anti-boy almost.

SPEAKER_04 14:13

Yeah, on the other side of that, I was now, so I literally went from being in the out group to the in group, right? So all of a sudden I was hanging with the basketball players and uh, you know, whatever. Now it it was a much smaller school, so it was a very, a very different thing there, but the the bullying stuff just didn't happen that way in our school for whatever whatever reason. And I don't mean to say that no bullying happened, right? Of course, there are poor kids and things were said or whatever, but it was never, never like it was at the other school where somebody would run up and hit you in the back of the head or anything like that. Like the the the guys would have put an immediate stop to any of that bullshit, yeah. Right? So it just wasn't that way, and it was a completely refreshing thing for me to go from one angle to the other and see that transform.

SPEAKER_00 15:15

Um question I have for you is the first school, was there from rural to like like it was did it evolve a lot of social economic different scales there? Like oh yeah. Okay, oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. And I think that's definitely that's that's an issue a lot, I think, on bullying.

SPEAKER_04 15:35

But like even when I was saying it was but even at the even at the other school, there was a lot of that socioeconomic differences. Like there were there were some people that just their their families had no money, and there were other families that did uh extremely well, right? So some some of the farmers uh out there in the in the rural areas uh did really well for themselves. Some some of them were laborers, right, or worked in a factory or whatever and didn't have quite the resources of the others. So it's pretty diverse. I think the difference was I went from a school where there were hundreds of people in my class to a school where there were 86, and it was the biggest class ever at that high school.

SPEAKER_06 16:23

Wow, yeah, right.

SPEAKER_04 16:25

So I think the smaller, and I don't I don't know this, I don't have any science behind it, but it felt to me like the smaller, more close-knit group, the community at that point, right? Didn't didn't allow for things like that to occur. It just didn't allow it.

SPEAKER_02 16:47

Well, and you get a chance to really know, you know, knowing 86 people versus I graduated at the end of the year.

SPEAKER_04 16:54

That's that's exactly my point. Yeah. That's exactly my point.

SPEAKER_03 16:57

There were no strangers.

SPEAKER_00 16:59

There were no strangers.

SPEAKER_03 17:01

My graduation class, I think, was like over a thousand people.

SPEAKER_00 17:04

Yeah. So that's my that's another like thought or question I have because like in my case, the school I went to the elementary school for sure. To elementary school was everybody was the basically the same, you know, work blue clock, blue-collar working class fan. Like that's that whole city was at. So there wasn't that there wasn't a high end to the city or big diversity of there wasn't of of the yes, of the money part of that, there wasn't a big diversity. Actually, there wasn't a big diversity of much, but but it was all in that, you know, in the same. So but it's interesting because then when we went to the high school, it was a three-city district. And then um, yeah, you saw some of that at the high school because the one city was more upper, they're you know, not even blue collar, you know, there were the office where those walking. So there was like, ah, you know, we're walking to school and the other kids are getting a car at 16. Well, not Porsches, but Mustangs. But a car, a new car, you know pintos. But so you saw some of that there, but yeah.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

Yeah, so I I was I spent a little bit of time um earlier today thinking about this topic and just like what's different now than it was then, right? But back then, for me at least, bowling there was name calling and whatever, but bullying was very physical, or at least if you weren't in the area, it didn't really hurt you, right? Like, yeah, they could call you names behind your back, but you would never really know, and that wasn't really all that important. But when they called you names and you were around, or when they hit you in the back of the head, or whatever the case is, that's when the bullying really was uh out front. Today, that's comp it's completely different, right? It's no longer physical space, it's everywhere.

SPEAKER_02 19:13

It's on the internet, it's uh well, and once it's there, it's there because even if it's deleted, yeah, still someone else probably has it.

SPEAKER_00 19:21

So it's also something it's also um compounded because then somebody else would jump on and someone else jump on, but yeah, that didn't happen, like you said, when we were younger, right? Because they weren't if the people weren't there, they never heard about it.

unknown 19:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 19:36

Yeah, yeah. And well, that was my other thought is that the scale was very different, right? Right, like it was it was the little click of bully boys that would pick on everybody in that physical space. But now, if you put a comment out there on the internet, it it just explodes, and there are trolls all over the place that just pile on and yada yada yada, right? So, I mean, this the scale of who's aware of the bullying like can read it, or who piles onto it, like it is drastically different. Yeah, drastically different.

SPEAKER_02 20:12

Well, there's also an anonymity to that too, where well there can be, sure. Yeah, where for sure. Back in, you know, back in my day, um way back when there was no you know, to your point, the the schoolyard bully was the you know, that first word is very important there. Schoolyard. Yeah, I went home and he he wasn't able to follow me home.

SPEAKER_06 20:37

That's right.

SPEAKER_02 20:38

Um whereas you know nowadays, and we'll we'll get into this when we talk more about the you know you know your kids and you know the your being collective for the you guys. You know, but kids nowadays where to your point it follows them home, it's always there.

SPEAKER_06 20:54

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 20:56

So and the I think the other the other thing that stood out to me when I was thinking about this is how it was more visible, right? Like if if some kid ran up and hit me in the back of the head and somebody saw it, somebody something would happen. Like it was it was a physical thing, it was a physical thing, but now if there's a picture of somebody going around or whatever, they may not even be aware that they're being bullied until you know it's it's way down the road, and then what like what's the consequence if 500 people have forwarded this image around, or you know, whatever the case is? Like, how do you how do you even deal with that?

SPEAKER_06 21:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 21:48

It's it's crazy stuff, like it's completely different. Thanks, you learned.

SPEAKER_06 21:54

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:58

No, it's it's interesting you say. That part too, because it happened. I had kids that are now, I gotta think, 39, 41, right?

SPEAKER_02 22:07

So it's like 30s and 40s.

SPEAKER_00 22:09

So they were they were in that, at least the start of the internet part of all of that. But you know, as most of you know, my daughter's deaf, and and she was in a special program. She was in a deaf only program until fourth grade. And then she went back to in a different district. Then she went into a mainstream setting thing in fourth grade. And she had an interpreter and blah, blah, blah. So she was that girl that stood out that was really different.

SPEAKER_01 22:37

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 22:38

And then I know there was a lot of comments and bullying going on, but she and then yeah, rarely I would hear it if I was in the right spot, but she never heard it. So she didn't even realize it. She didn't realize it was going on. It's kind of like what what you were saying. If you're if you weren't right there, then it didn't happen. So I mean, so that just plays into the fact that the bullying that's going on where you don't know nothing about it really doesn't bother you.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, can we even call it bullying at that point?

SPEAKER_00 23:09

Because until you notice it, well, it's bullying behavior.

SPEAKER_02 23:13

I know it is, but I'm saying, like, you know, until you notice it, it doesn't affect you. Yeah, it's not, it's not a part of your life.

SPEAKER_04 23:19

Yeah. But I think the difference is you would notice it right away before, right? But now you may not notice it until the scale of it is so large, right? Because now instead of just the one person calling you names, now 500 people are calling you names, and that's when you figure it out. And the weight of that is much heavier, I think, than the one person, right? Yeah. So like you instead of having somebody throw rocks at us, we're getting boulders dropped off now.

SPEAKER_00 23:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:51

I guess is my point.

SPEAKER_00 23:53

Yeah, that makes sense. So when you say it that way.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah, it it's crazy, it's crazy to think about. And I'm I'm sure there's a hundred thousand other angles about how it's different to like um, you know, there there used to be the stigma of being the last kid chosen for kickball or or whatever, right? Like nobody wanted to be the last kid pick. But now when you're all all the other kids are in a group chat and you're not in the group chat, is that the same thing? You know what I mean?

SPEAKER_03 24:30

Like CNN I kind of see it a little bit different because high school for me being in the 90s, everything was very clicks, you know. So that was just your group of friends. It wasn't that you were purposely bullying someone else by not including them, they just weren't part of that group. You know? And I I I was the kind of kid that I would kind of float around to different groups. I was kind of friends with everybody.

SPEAKER_06 25:03

Yep.

SPEAKER_03 25:04

Um, but it was never like, oh, we're we do everything together all the time. It's like, okay, three months here, then you move on to a different group and you're doing stuff. But but they were all my friends, you know.

SPEAKER_06 25:15

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:16

Um and I know uh there definitely was bullying going on, but it wasn't, I mean, I don't ever remember anybody like hitting me. Um, I'm sure stuff was said, but then again, there was always there was always that one person at school that was like usually the class clown that always would say stuff. Right. Sometimes it was meant to hurt, sometimes it was meant to get a reaction. Um, and sometimes they were the person that needed the most attention um in their personal life.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

So well, there's a lot of studies, there's a lot of studies about that. That not only does the bullying um the person being bullied associate more with anxiety and depression and et cetera, et cetera, but so does the bully. Right? So so that bullying behavior in in a lot of cases is a defense mechanism for that person, right? To tr try to get somebody else to take the heat so they don't have to take the heat.

SPEAKER_05 26:23

Right?

SPEAKER_04 26:24

Whether whether that be heat from home or heat from other kids, you I you know, I guess every situation's a little bit different. But the the kids that are doing the bullying are as broken as the kids being bullied. Probably more so. Probably more so.

SPEAKER_00 26:42

When when uh when I was growing up, we walked to all our schools. So like our even our we had a junior high, so the junior high, I don't know, man, it was a mile, half away, a mile away, whatever. But um, it was a big neighborhood kids. So like we we had a group that walked. About eight of us guys, it started a couple here, and the furthest ones would meet up, then the next one come in, right? And there was it was all it was all guys in my particular group, and not necessarily guys that I would all want to hang with, but if you were hanging with this guy, then that guy knew that guy. And you know, so we went to school together. And uh, you know, there were times, especially again, I'm the littlest guy, and a couple of these guys would like, you know, pick up me, give me a headlock, do something, you know, punch me, whatever, you know, in that I don't want to say playful way, but you know, not they weren't punching me in the face or whatever. But in the times that they weren't doing that to try to act big, and then they start talking, specifically these two guys, they start talking about their family lives. I'm like going, holy shit, no wonder you're doing what you're doing, because you're getting that from all, you know, your dad or something at home, you know. So that that that it's it falls right to what you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 27:58

I just and that dad got it from somebody else, and that somebody else got it from somebody else. Right. I mean, it's it's this curse that we that we just keep handing down, right? Which to be very honest, guys, is one of one of the reasons that I was so excited to do this kind of thing with John because this is this is an opportunity to shed some light on these things and maybe talk about it and stop some.

SPEAKER_06 28:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:25

Right? Like that that's the the big issue is that people have these traumas, let's call them traumas, that uh are impacting them, but they're unable and or unwilling to talk about it and and work it out. So they have to they have to continue to act on it until they deal with it in a different way. So that this is super important stuff. And I again the the typical disclaimer, right? We're not clinicians, don't take any of our advice for you know, whatever, blah blah blah. But um, you know, the in my opinion, the best thing that you can do is find your community point. That's that's it. I did point, I did point actually. I saw you point, Steve. It took a while for that to register, but well, it had long distance to travel.

SPEAKER_06 29:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:24

I mean, that's yeah, that's right. Uh that that's really the key, right? Is finding a way to have a group that you can relate to and you can talk about some of these things.

SPEAKER_06 29:34

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 29:34

You don't have to be comfortable enough to talk about everything, baby steps, right? But I I think you know, with uh us guys on this on this uh uh podcast, we've had some conversations about some of this stuff that we would we wouldn't have with just any old person who walked into the brewery, right? Right, but we're only here because we started.

SPEAKER_00 30:00

Well, yeah, I I absolutely agree, Steve. Like, no, because like like this weekend, so for those of you that don't know, there was a group of us, nine of us went to Dave Matthews' awesome concert and Pennsylvania. We all decided to stay together in the Airbnb, and we we had a blast, we had a lot of laughs, but I think looking back, and I I could see it happening, and I was part of some of it. It was like people were saying some, you know, personal traumatic things or just some things that that that you wouldn't unless you had that community. Right. And I was like, that was to me, all the laughs were cool, but that was some of the the I don't want to say fun, but the really uh takeaway, the best part of right.

SPEAKER_03 30:47

Well, that that chosen family, right? Really you start to open up and and talk. I mean, community brings you together, but the chosen family is where you really start to open up and and talk about who you are and what's going on in your life and and share those things you kind of keep to yourself.

SPEAKER_00 31:04

Right, but that's like you're saying, like you you need to find that somewhere or another so that you have those abilities to to do that, you know. A year ago, I wasn't gonna I didn't have this group, so I wasn't right. Everything just stayed inside if there was stuff to stay inside, you know.

SPEAKER_04 31:22

Yeah, I mean the tr the trick, guys, is to try it, right? Like not everybody who comes to one of the progress meetings is a fit for progress. That's okay, right? Maybe maybe their thing is the church or the bridge club or I don't know like some other things, yeah. But yeah, but but but if you don't try, if you don't get out there and give it a shot, you're not gonna find your thing. Yep, right. So our thing, I know our thing is not for everybody, and that's okay. That's okay. We'll welcome you in and we'll see if it's right for you. And if it's not, okay.

SPEAKER_03 32:04

No hard feelings, right? Well, and I think for this area, the important thing is there's people that may be like-minded, so go see them, go check it out. You know, maybe it's not the right fit, maybe it is, maybe maybe you're just partially, you know, into the what's going on. Um, but still, it's just nice to know that there's more than just you.

SPEAKER_04 32:26

That's right. That's right. Well, you know, we had we're way off topic on the bully thing. Oh, don't worry. I got I got something.

SPEAKER_02 32:34

Go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Uh okay.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Don't worry.

SPEAKER_04 32:37

Uh on Thursday this past week, um one of the young ladies who joined us. I don't know, I don't remember who if all of you guys were there. Um, but one of the ladies who joined us was Melanie Lowley. And she um was originally part of the Grove City Democrats, I think, like the one that was before before, right? So she had done this and she had drifted into our orbit for a little while, but she um is a teacher and whatever. So during the school year, she had a lot of problems trying to make it to our meetings or whatever. But she she said to me on Thursday, hey, I really appreciate that you guys can just let me drift in and out of here whenever whenever I can. And I'm like, really, it's not us letting you. I mean, this is this is here for everybody, right? Like, if if you can make it today, make it today. If you can't make it again for six months, we'll see you in six months, right? Right? It's fine. Yeah, there's there's no expectation what you put into it what you want to put into.

SPEAKER_00 33:51

And I I I was there for that conversation too, and she was like, 'Cause she was talking about back during COVID or whatever, some of the stuff going on, right? Then then, but then she was all like some of the stuff we were doing, like with the charter amendment stuff. She was like, so happy to hear that. Like she wasn't there, but that kept going, and she's happy to hear that. And you know, like so it wasn't just the it was what the community was doing that she was still happy to drift in and hear about.

SPEAKER_03 34:20

Yeah, and I wanted to be part of that conversation, but I had to leave to go buy my son black socks that he needed for marching band camp the next day at eight o'clock at night when I had to get home at nine.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

Yeah, so I'm gonna get a big camp. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

Oh, but Steve, all that and talk about your idea of you know bringing this all together and how you're off topic, you're actually not off topic because I think it's through that we actually help fight against bullies. Because I know personally for me, and we'll talk about this a little bit after the break that we're about to take here in a second, but for me, finding people that maybe not weren't bullied at the same way I was, but finding people that actually like cared about me and wanted what was best for me was a great way for me to kind of step away from the bully and not have to deal with them directly. Um, you know, stronger together than we are individual, and that can be on any any scale. So with that being said, we'll be right back to talk more about everything. Hey everybody, this episode is kind of dark. Um you were talking about bullying, we're talking about all the things that go along with it. And we just want you to know, as we mentioned before, there are ways that you can reach out, there are things that you can do, even if there's not somebody directly in your life. You can check out 988lifeline.org or just call 988. It is the hotline to help to be there for you. So make sure you check it out.

SPEAKER_00 36:13

Boy, I really like the song. I wonder who did it.

SPEAKER_03 36:17

I really like the intro so much better.

SPEAKER_02 36:21

And we're back. Uh I can't help it. I'm danced to that already. You are fine. Uh that's that's why I made it catchy.

SPEAKER_00 36:30

Uh, you didn't want to do this?

SPEAKER_02 36:32

Right. Uh we're talking about bullying. Um and you know, just to kind of throw some numbers out here, there was a National Center of Education Statistics study done back in 2022 that said one out of every five students reported being bullying. Or being bullied, sorry. Um, in that same study, a higher proportion of female than male students reported being bullied at school. It's 21.8% versus 16.7%. And this is in 2022 when we were just coming out of the whole lockdown online school that I know every single kid absolutely loved. Sarcasm, sarcasm, sarcasm. Um but speaking of that, of being online with the school, you know, we we experience that as adults, and there is bullying when you're an adult. Um, it happens. But I think it's more prevalent when you're a child because you're still trying to figure out who you are. You're still trying to figure out what you're about. Yeah, I would say it's it's a little harder, or at least from personal experience, it's a little bit harder to bully me now because I'm comfortable with who I am and what I do and what I'm about. Um so if you're gonna pick something, you ask go ahead.

SPEAKER_04 38:03

Speak speaking of which, but at the end, I don't want to interrupt your thought, but at the end, I'm gonna come back and determine whether or not I'm a bully.

SPEAKER_03 38:15

It's called passion, Steve.

SPEAKER_02 38:18

Yeah, but it's as an adult, it's it's different.

SPEAKER_00 38:21

Right. It's certain it's certainly different, but I think like the internet brings bullying as an adult, like now that we have the internet, because I've been around as adult pre-internet, like it's another way to bully that you didn't have pre-internet as an adult.

SPEAKER_06 38:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:46

So it was only in school. And then I wanted to bring up the point too about the girls, and I think the women, the females, get bullied in a different way than we even can relate to as guys.

SPEAKER_02 39:00

But that's also one of the aspects of this podcast that I one of the reasons I wanted to even do it is you know, and then the last week's episode with Mandy. If if you haven't listened to that, go back and listen to it.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

We have to listen to it, it's very good.

SPEAKER_02 39:14

But within that, it's just you know, we're all empathetic guys who try our best to always bring our best, you know, put our best foot forward. But we also all of us are now in a position where you know we've created the community, we've created the areas in which bowling might be harder, but you know, Mark, to your point, women have a completely different aspect of bowling because you know, maybe as a young girl, you weren't physically hit in the back of the head, you weren't stomped on on the bus, you weren't punched, you weren't, but you know, rumors still spread. Notes still went around.

SPEAKER_03 40:01

Yeah, you were judged on so many things.

SPEAKER_02 40:03

Yeah, and even today, women are judged on so many things. And that still goes. And then to what we were talking about before, you know, one person says something, you post a photo where you think you're cute, one person says something negative, the next person says something negative, and it then it just goes negative after negative. So even if you destroy that photo, you know, somebody else shared it, somebody else, it's like it's it's there, it exists. And I think that's the real issue with cyberbullying is that it's there and it always exists. There's no getting rid of it.

SPEAKER_00 40:36

And it and it's so easy to do.

SPEAKER_03 40:39

Right. Because there's always somebody ready to give their opinion to to hide behind something and give their opinion.

SPEAKER_02 40:45

Yeah, hide behind a screen name of some sort, an online persona that you know, Mark and to your point, maybe maybe it's the tiny little guy that's now gets to be a bully online because nobody knows that he's maybe five-foot nothing.

SPEAKER_00 41:01

Right.

SPEAKER_02 41:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 41:02

Right. Or worse, it's the person that maybe doesn't even feel that way, but they're just trying to be funny and put something out there, and then it just creates this whole like domino effect.

SPEAKER_02 41:15

Yes, even to your point about, you know, am I a bully? It's like, well, to certain people, maybe. But you know, I know every single one of us is the villain in somebody's story. Every single one of us is the bad guy in someone's tale.

SPEAKER_04 41:34

Um So that's not exactly what I'm referring to. Okay. Of course, there are people that don't like you, right? And they're gonna villainize you, whatever. I don't really care about that. I don't have time to worry about those people.

SPEAKER_02 41:48

Fair.

SPEAKER_04 41:48

Um, but what what I'm talking about, I guess we're not gonna do it at the end, but let's do it right now.

SPEAKER_02 41:53

Let's do it right now. Let's jump into it, why not?

SPEAKER_04 41:55

So, what I'm talking about is Karen, Karen calls me a bully, but my perspective is uh that uh uh I'm trying to think of a nice way to say this, that I speak things into existence. So uh for example, for example, I will assume that um oh here here's here's a good example. I would assume that Jen would want to go to the train concert with us tomorrow. So I would just talk like she's gonna go, right? So in my mind, there's no there's no reason for her to not go. I'm gonna act like she's going and let her tell me otherwise. Right? So I would just I would just kind of speak that into existence. Like I just assume that it's true and therefore it's true until somebody tells me it's not. I'm I'm not doing a cue to bully her into going.

SPEAKER_02 43:01

Yeah. But you're you're talking about how that's like a form that could be labeled a form of bully.

SPEAKER_04 43:06

But Karen, Karen feels like I bully people that way because I'm like, oh yeah, you'll definitely be there. Oh, you'll have a uh Sue going on a cruise. Like I give Sue shit about going on a cruise all the time. Part of that's ingest now. But part of me really wants to see her go on a cruise with us. I think that would be unbelievable. Yeah, I wouldn't I give her crap about that all the time.

SPEAKER_02 43:28

Bullying, though. That's more kind of just I mean, I get I guess it is on some level, but it's not I feel like there's a difference when there's an ill intent behind it.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Yeah, but it's also the it's no ill intent on Steve's part.

SPEAKER_02 43:45

Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

SPEAKER_00 43:46

But does the recipient of that feel ill? Yeah, know that.

SPEAKER_04 43:51

Yeah, I guess that's the trick. That's the trick, right? It's the trick.

SPEAKER_00 43:56

But just like at the beginning, there when we came back in and kind of bumped. A little bit on the the music. I don't know. I must say guys sing versus women sing, but certainly guys bust on each other. Certainly fire department guys, oh firemen, but firemen, like but it's all a guy thing. In fact, my wife, you know, Jane says, Well, you're doing it. You're I don't know, she used the term bullying, but she's like, Well, why are you doing it? Why are you like picking on him? Picking him. I'm like, that's we're just having a wonderful busting. So where does it for us? Someone might take that as bullying. I I I don't know. I don't you guys since I got involved with you guys. I'm like, my brain is like spinning its heart. I'm trying to think of all these things I never thought about before. And it's like it's hurting my head sometimes, but it's good too. It's growth, right? It's it's it's right.

SPEAKER_03 44:51

And I think with that particular situation, it it depends on which gen you're talking about. If you're talking about my gen, um she would never think you were trying to force her to go. Actually, I had to tell her, I'm like, I'll get Jackson from band camp. You you go if you want. I'm like, I don't really care about hearing those bands. Right. So you go have a good time with our friends.

SPEAKER_06 45:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Um you know, and honestly, it's a lot cheaper for one person to go than for four people to go, especially if they don't care.

SPEAKER_00 45:22

Um you're saying you don't like them that much.

SPEAKER_03 45:25

I don't. I saw Bare Necked Ladies a long time ago. So I'm good. Um but um the band, the band. It's been a long time. It's been a long time. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 45:36

How old is Jackson? So I guess Tor I guess Tori would have been the last one, but nevertheless. Uh yeah.

SPEAKER_03 45:45

No, and I think that comes down to the chosen family because when you're talking with those people that you hang out with, they they kind of know.

SPEAKER_00 45:53

And I but I mean it may I can't believe I'm giving Karen a little bit of her cred here, but it may be we're gonna have to edit this out, Mark.

SPEAKER_03 46:03

We maybe give her let her know it.

SPEAKER_00 46:07

Hey, I already I already said it about Dave Matthews to her. So she's like, oh, he's twice. He's gonna it it it depends on like we're the way that we are. I know I am like just getting in the group on the way I am. So somebody newer to the group might not know that that's just me or that's just Steve. That's just his way. So there might be some of that. But I in the scheme of things, that isn't to me bullying, like what we're trying to talk about here, bullying.

SPEAKER_02 46:36

That's just like, you know, like it's the context of it where it's like you understand the context behind it, but somebody from the outside may not understand it. But that could also lead into you know more of the cyberbullying thing of just you know, maybe I make a comment uh, you know, of just random picture, and I'm like, oh, you look ugly. Like that's ugly. But then someone takes the person that posted it knows that I'm kidding. They you know, just because they know me, they know what I'm doing. But then, you know, five comments down, they don't know that, much less a hundred comments down. They don't know. Yeah, they just see that it devolved into this oh, you know, you're too fat, you're too this, you're too whatever it is. Well, but the de evolution of it, like you know, the dog pile, if you will, of it.

SPEAKER_04 47:25

But it's just with I I think that's a great point, John. I think that's a great point. Yeah, you're you're exactly right. Like the just just because the the antagonist and protagonist don't find it to be bullying doesn't mean that somebody viewing it from a third seat doesn't think that it's bullying, even if it's not. Yeah, that's kind of the cancel culture idea.

SPEAKER_03 47:49

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's right. It's the emojis on a Facebook post to where it's so absurd and somebody laughs, and you're like, how can they laugh at that? That's that's angry. I know you should be angry. Um, they're laughing because it's so absurd. In most cases, sometimes they're laughing because they're assholes. Um but but yeah, it's you don't know. Well, I f I find myself doing that.

SPEAKER_04 48:12

I find myself hitting, am I angry? Do I think this is nuts? Should I just down thumb it? Like thinking about how the other person on the other side is gonna interpret my perceive what you're doing, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:26

My uh translation of my emotional reaction to this thing. Yeah, you're exclamation marks.

SPEAKER_00 48:32

Exclamation marks, I have a problem with. I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing when you see them on an emoji or an extra.

SPEAKER_04 48:40

And I use them all the time, I use them all the time.

SPEAKER_00 48:42

I know, and I'm like, but but talking about that, here here, here's like here's the thing, and I don't know how you deal with this, and I I think it's it's bad, it's out there. It's like I'm gonna go back to that little video I took at the Dave at the venue, and I put it out on the post, and then some people went real mean and hard into that. And it doesn't bother me, I don't care, you know, but but I'm like, why? We're just talking about a hypothetical, like and there was like ah, it didn't happen here and we didn't want to like like all that. I'm like, why are you even wasting that energy in an idea that someone threw it was a total idea and it wasn't political, it wasn't nothing, it was just hey, let's open our minds up and then boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, boom.

SPEAKER_03 49:33

It's think outside the box.

SPEAKER_00 49:35

Yeah, yeah. Or think outside the property in the case of that particular but about but I mean, people are just and like I think I go beyond it and I look at that and I go, What are you doing? And then you know how there's long dissertations they'll write. And I'm like, anytime I write, I try to write back, I try to be positive or or like show something real or factual, and I'm like half an hour to do a paragraph. And these guys are putting, I'm like, what are you doing all day that you just sit here and like sit in there and doing this? Doing this, and you're like, that's to me, bully. That's a maybe not the term, but it it is maybe. I I'm like, I don't why are people like that? I don't yeah, as it goes back to elementary school and silver teeth and short guy, I don't know, like going back, I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 50:22

There's always gonna be something that people can point out and call out. You know, like there's a comedian who does a bit, and I love it, where up front he has this there's this blind guy sitting in the front row, and so then the comedian just jumps in all these blind jokes and is just going after him and just kind of making doing everything, like, you know, did you select what you're wearing tonight? Because it it's clashing and just going at him. And the blind guy is loving it, he's just like, This is the greatest show that I've ever been at. Some lady in the back who doesn't know that there's a blind guy up front just hears all this vitriol against you know, blind people. And after the show goes up, the comedian just says, You know, that was I like I'm never gonna listen to you again. You're a horrible person. Like, why would you do that? And or sorry, not after the show, during the show, the woman says this. And then the the guy, the comedian looks at the blind guy and goes, Sir, do you do you know this woman? Like, is this are you trying to troll me? Are you trying to do something to me? And the blind guy without missing a beat goes, I haven't seen that woman a day in my life. And it's just like that, that, because she's offended in the back because something that she perceives as bullying, you know, where this this blind guy went to the community after the show and said, That was the best show of my life. I'm gonna follow you now. You you've created an avid fan now. You've created somebody who wants nothing more than to follow you because everyone else normally ignores me. Everybody else doesn't see me. You made a point to highlight me, to make me part of your thing.

SPEAKER_04 51:55

But yeah, I think that's great. I I think I worry that um you know the I I guess the lesson of that story is that everybody sees things through their own lens, right? Right. So you you don't know if that lady has uh a blind her father was blind, you know, whatever. You don't know. Yeah, I don't know her story. You're right. She she saw it one way and somebody else saw it another. That's the way the world works.

SPEAKER_02 52:27

But the internet has highlighted that whole thing of the but our reaction to that tends to be yeah, no, I'm agreeing, I'm agreeing with that.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

Yeah, I I think that's exactly right. Tends to be anger. Everything is heightened, right? Everything is heightened, and there's no more um context, right? Right? Every everybody's living in their own context and not the cumulative context. Uh and now in that case, that's all live and together, although it's a large group, right? Seeing a show on the internet, it's even different because it's even larger. The words on the page live in your context, right? Right? Yeah, so you don't know the context of the person that typed it or the context of the person they're replying to. So, you know, that there's not even any uh chance of really knowing that, unless, of course, we know each other, that's a different thing. But yeah, but uh in this case, they were both in the same room and experienced it differently.

SPEAKER_02 53:29

That's that's yeah, but you and I know each other. I make a comment that you know is you know, I'm just I'm just poking fun at you, I'm and I'm laughing with you, not at you.

SPEAKER_00 53:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 53:41

But somebody 10 comments later has no idea that I originally was laughing with you and not at you.

SPEAKER_00 53:46

Or as in the I'm new to these greet big group texts like been happening lately. And I sometimes go to my wife, I'm like, what is even going on here? I don't I I have no idea, like from five five comments up, what's even happening here.

SPEAKER_02 54:04

So welcome to the community.

SPEAKER_03 54:08

I'm just thinking take Mark out of the group text.

SPEAKER_00 54:11

No, I like being in the text. I like being in the group text.

SPEAKER_04 54:15

I don't want to be taken away. Take care of the group.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

I don't want to be taken out.

SPEAKER_02 54:23

Speaking of getting taken out, um, I've I've been kind of reading a little bit of this. Um I will put it in the show notes, but it's from let's again, hold on, let me find it. The National Bullying Prevention Center. Um and I've been looking at some of these stats. Um, and one that stands out is the percentage of schools that report cyberbullying occurrences in the last week were highest among middle school students at 37%, high school students at 25%, and elementary school students at six percent. Being that you know, all of you, not all of you, but you know, you all have experienced kids in middle school, in elementary school. Some of you not high school yet, but you know, at the stages of high school. Does that surprise uh you guys?

SPEAKER_04 55:18

No. It doesn't surprise me at all.

SPEAKER_00 55:20

So let me tell you guys, I I've been 14 years I was assistant camp director for the sixth grade. Sixth grade kids in the breeze school system. They go for a week and it's at a camp in the sleepover, and high school kids are counselors in the sixth grade. Sixth grade, like I'm not surprised at that that number at all because they're not they're not really wired right at that age. I don't they're they're still figuring out their wiring. Yeah, no, it's a it's it's my grandson like used to like to say about younger kids, they're they're not even conscious yet. They're conscious in sixth grade, they're just semi-conscious. So like they're just exploring every avenue that's out there. And since it's so easy to do this, and it's so easy at that age period to s to be picked on or to take a slight from a comment that somebody else made can be a bigger deal. So it's it's all of those things that make that the snowball effect. I'm actually surprised it's only 36%.

SPEAKER_03 56:22

I yeah, we see that. I personally think when they're in elementary school, they're sponges, they're soaking it all up. But I think when they hit that intermediate school, which is that sixth grade fifth fifth grade, sixth grade, or sixth grade, seventh grade. No, fifth and sixth year. Um that's when kids start to bring their home life to school.

SPEAKER_02 56:47

And it's well it's also when all their bodies are starting, all the weird hormonal changes.

SPEAKER_03 56:52

They know a lot more, and it just it gets and sometimes it's kids trying to be funny and it goes wrong. Right. Exactly.

SPEAKER_00 57:02

Well, and I think too, that's the younger they are in elementary school, they're just playing with the other kid, you know, like whatever kid's a kid, and we're gonna play or play if we're interested, but you know, we start you talk somebody talked about the clicks, so that starts happening later in elementary school and whatnot, and then that it just the whole dynamic just changes, and like you said, uh kids' bodies change, and yeah, you know, one day one one year they're thin, the next they're heavy, and then all of a sudden they're looked at a different way, whatever.

SPEAKER_04 57:34

You know, I think there's two things going on at the same time. So one is the transition from elementary to middle school is when the children go from learning the basics to starting to learn how to be a community member, right? How to interact with others in a new way, and the phone and electronics really takes effect at late elementary into early middle, right? This is where they get into the online gaming and the phones and what have you. The then by the time they get to high school, they've learned some of those coping mechanisms to deal with some of the things that in the early years they may not have known how to deal with.

unknown 58:27

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 58:28

I think that's part of it. The second thing is that I think in the in the late elementary, early middle, that's when the parents are the most plugged into this epidemic of bullying. So they're watching the child's phone and they're watching those things. The kid is more likely to talk to the parent at this time, right? What so that's how more of it's getting reported. I'm not so sure there's any more of it going on, but that's why more of it's getting reported because the parents won't just let it go.

SPEAKER_02 59:03

Well, yeah, it's your first your first phone. Whereas that's right, as the youngest person, I know my my first phone was when I was in high school. I think I was in the city.

SPEAKER_04 59:13

We come from a different time, right?

SPEAKER_02 59:15

My general but that's what I'm saying. Like, as the youngest person, I didn't have that phone access until I was in high school.

SPEAKER_00 59:24

Well, I I don't I don't only think it's the phone. I think you're right. Like in my generation, young, like even if I got picked on, slapped upside the head, like unless I had a big black and blue eye, I'm not gonna tell my parents what happened. I'm not telling anybody what happened, you know?

SPEAKER_02 59:40

No it lives on YouTube.

SPEAKER_00 59:42

But it's not only that, but like parents are like, hey, you know, you look a certain way. What happened today? What's going on? You know, like I mean, why are you sad?

SPEAKER_04 59:50

Why are you sad? Why are you sad?

SPEAKER_00 59:51

Why are you like so it I don't know, it's so complicated. Is some of it exasperated because the parents are so tuned in, like you're saying.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:03

Yep, helicopter parents, right? Like they're just watching and waiting and trying to figure everything out. The the kids are learning to tell them less as they get older.

SPEAKER_06 1:00:15

That's that's true, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:00:17

Because they don't want the parent to make a big deal out of it. You know, you know, if if the worst thing that would have happened to me when that kid was hitting me in the back of the head uh in middle school, the worst thing that could have happened is my dad go to the school and make a big stink about it. Oh my god, that would have been the end of the world. Yeah, that would have been horrible. Right? And by the time you get to high school, you figure that out, and you know how to hide some things and you know how to deal with some things on your own, so you don't need to report them to anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 1:00:53

Yep. You know there's where those safe places are, where the community is, where the yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:58

Oh, and and you're developing the skills to keep things hidden, right, from your parents, right? You're not you're no longer in the regular old chat app. Now you're using uh, you know, whatever. Uh what the hell is the one with the yellow Snapchat or whatever?

SPEAKER_02 1:01:18

That delete stuff after 24 hours, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:21

Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:21

Yeah, but is that a good or bad thing, though? Like I don't know.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

I think it's I'm not saying I'm not saying it's a good or bad thing. I'm just saying it's a change.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:30

Okay, it's changing it depends on the change.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:32

So that's why the number, that's why the number is changing, not necessarily because it gets any less, okay, but because it's being handled differently.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:43

Yeah, or not even reported to begin with.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:45

So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:47

I mean, you always hear that. Oh, he's bully, bully, bully. The parents say no, then something really bad happens. It's like we had no idea what was going on here.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:55

Right. Well, and I that's what Steve's saying is the parents never have any idea what's going on because the kids are so much better at hiding it. You know, they they know if I act this way, they're gonna ask questions. I don't want to have conversations, so much better.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:10

I'm not reacting this way. I could hide pretty good from my parents' things that were going on.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:15

Oh, like kids are good at hiding it. I think we all probably would. You're right.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:21

I think that's yeah, right. It's a skill learned by every generation, but but I hear what you're saying, Chad. I hear what you're saying.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:28

But it's also more prevalent, you know, to with the cyber bullying, it's it's there's more uh cameras at school, there's more phones out of school, there there's more access to all of this, to the lives of the children. Because you know, you could even you know, I I'm thinking about doing this just with myself in general, of just you know, air tags. You could always have a GPS tracker. Whereas we've talked about this in previous episodes. I remember being 10 years old, Saturday morning rolls around eight o'clock, I'm outside, my mom has no idea where I am until eight o'clock at night.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:10

I live my whole childhood that way.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:11

Yeah, yeah, but it's kids nowadays. No, they have their we are we're all carrying GPS trackers.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:19

Right?

SPEAKER_02 1:03:19

Well like Steve, I know you can do it right now. Like you could tell us where your kids are, you please don't, but you could tell us where your kids are right now. You could pull it up and figure out exactly where they are.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:29

I guess I could find me. You know, it's like yeah, it's I could my kids, my grandkids on your phone.

SPEAKER_03 1:03:34

But I can tell you where my parents are.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:36

Yeah, you have we have that ability now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:03:39

My daughter, to your point, my daughter just entered a geofence. I know exactly where she is. Yeah, like exactly where she is.

unknown 1:03:46

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 1:03:47

So um not being if you're not just sure to find me, it will even tell you, oh, she's driving in her car. It'll bring up a little car thingy right next door. Like so.

SPEAKER_04 1:04:00

So I definitely think this is a topic. That's exactly true.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:03

Yeah, this is a topic that I don't I don't think we've said all we want to say or need to say on this. So I definitely think we'll be talking about this again at some point.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:11

It's also a topic that I have a hard time even concluding what an answer might be to help make this better.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:20

So I I don't there's no answer because it changes by the second.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:24

I I get that, but yeah, a lot of times our conversations there you could see this or this.

SPEAKER_02 1:04:31

Uh go either way, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:04:32

Yeah, yeah. Like like you could see how it's solved or at least helped. But I I'm I'm lost on this, especially the cyber component of this. I just don't know how to I don't know how to I don't know how we deal with this.

SPEAKER_03 1:04:45

Yeah. I think that what we were talking about at the break is letting people around us know, hey, I'm here for you. Because like I said, with my kids, they don't want to talk to me in real life. I get it. You know, because we're gonna drill down, we're gonna try to get to the root of the problem, we're gonna try to fix it.

unknown 1:05:05

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:05

We're the parents, we want to try to fix it. But my kids could go to any of you guys and have a conversation. And if something needs to be dealt with and my wife and I need to know, you're gonna tell us you're gonna talk to the kids different. You know, and it's not that, and I think that's the key is making sure there's other people around that can at least start a conversation um with kids that that may not even seem to be having a problem because they may open up.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:37

Yeah, some of these I think that's definitely true, Chad. I mean, we we see um if you just want to talk about how kids are different around their parents, look look no further than uh our individual children's uh interactions with other people in the group, right? I mean, we we can see that they uh Are respectful and you know this, that, and the other when they're dealing with others, but with us they act differently. And there are reasons for that, right? There's a power dynamic struggle, there's uh you know, all of those things, but um that that's part of the challenge too, right? This this is why the term it takes a village exists.

SPEAKER_06 1:06:28

Yep, right? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:30

Yeah, or so nine out of ten tweens use social media or gaming apps. And so it's like there's more you know, so we were talking about it before it kind of ties in with the ten.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:43

That feels pretty light. Like nine point nine out of ten, I would say. I mean I I don't I can't think of a kid that doesn't even something.

SPEAKER_02 1:06:55

Yeah, even if we just keep it at the nine, you know, obviously I I do think it's more as well. But you know, do you know every single gaming app that your you know kid is on?

SPEAKER_03 1:07:08

Do you know every single because my kid has to ask for permission to install the app and then has to ask for permission to be on it. Right. At least my daughter, my son, not so much anymore because he's older.

SPEAKER_02 1:07:19

That's but that's also a good system to have it.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:21

Here's the thing, too. Like my kids again, they had the games, but they didn't have those games didn't have this open to the world where you could be talking whoever, and that's a whole not until later, not until they were more developed. Right, right, right. So that's it's not just the game, it's how you talk back and forth and text back and forth.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:45

Well, and that's the new friendships for kids, too. Right. So earlier you were talking about, you know, walking to school with the kids in the neighborhood. Used to the kids in your neighborhood were your friends, regardless if you liked them or not. They were your friends because they lived in the neighborhood.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

Right, two houses. Now that was your that was your pool of friends, right? Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:03

That was all you had to choose from. Now you can be friends with like-minded people around the world, yeah. You know, or or even somebody that lived next door that now lives halfway across the country, but you can still keep in touch with them. It's not like the old days of you have to rack up $25, you know, long distance phone bill just to say hi, how do you do it? Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:28

Sounds like somebody had a girlfriend that moved. That's what I think I just heard.

SPEAKER_03 1:08:33

I'm not gonna talk about it still. No, she lived in Howard away, and I'm married to her now.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:37

My son's gonna be 41 very shortly here. Like, I don't know, he's got a good friend that 15, 16, I don't know, maybe it's 20. From gaming, and like they met for the first time in person like last year, like after all those years, voting, oh, that's my best friend. I'm like, I okay, I'd like that if you say so. Yeah, that's not something that uh was available to me growing up, right?

SPEAKER_03 1:09:04

And it's hard for us to understand how can that be your best friend? But they talked all the time doing something that they both enjoyed. Right, exactly. Right, they built that bond that we couldn't physically see. So it makes it hard to understand.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:24

Yeah, I yeah, there really is a different world.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:26

Yeah, I I mean I actually when you say that I can understand it, it just it's just when you weren't from that world, that's a new thing you have to look at and go, oh yeah, that's this this couldn't happen, right?

SPEAKER_02 1:09:38

Well, and that's the saying back in my day, right?

unknown 1:09:41

Right.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:41

Well, and also back in my day. The hard part about that is when it first came about, it was on the news, it was in so many TV shows about the dangers of it. So you're very skeptical, and you don't, you're like, no, you don't need to do that, and then they do it anyway, and then they've got this friendship because they saw it totally different. Because as the parent, we would freak out and be like, no, be safe. And I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:07

I think I was clueless. Like he used to beat me up with playing Mutant Ninja Turtles when he was like four, and I'm like and even when we're on the same team, he would decurtle beat me up. I'm like, what are you doing? I'm on the same team. He just ran the way after that. I'm like, I gave up what I just saw. I didn't know what he was doing on those games.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:27

Yeah, but it's it's all you know, as as everything changes and bullying changes, again, as I said in the beginning of the episode, the concept is the same. You know, the the bully has for whatever reason has a system in a way in which they do the bullying, but it's just is it in person, is it online, is it?

SPEAKER_00 1:10:48

So the venue or the whole way to do it is keeps changing. That's hard to keep ahead of that.

SPEAKER_02 1:10:55

The venue changes, but the system remains the same. Um, and you know, there is no answer, you know, Mark, to your point. There is no answer for how do we solve this? We we don't. We just tell our tell our kids, tell our friends, you know, hey, we're here, we're a safe space, we're somebody you can talk to. You know, if if you're getting bullied, if you need help, you know, dogpiling the bully, let us know. You know, like you need help, you know, someone to just talk to, invent to, you know, let us know.

SPEAKER_06 1:11:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:27

Um but it's just there's there is no answer to this because it's gonna it's gonna happen. It happens from the White House down, you know, like so there is no answer of like this is how you solve bullying.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:43

The only consistent thing with bullying is we're always gonna be a step behind what's happening.

SPEAKER_02 1:11:49

Yep. And the bully's always gonna exist.

SPEAKER_03 1:11:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:53

So But that certainly doesn't mean we shouldn't try. Oh no, right.

SPEAKER_01 1:11:58

Like I I I just want to make sure don't get community and so we have to we have to you know keep you know keep going.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:12

We've said it multiple different ways in different episodes, but we have to keep going together, and you know that that's why I wanted to do this originally. That's why this podcast exists.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:24

So I want to thank you all for listening and uh so before you do that, because I know where you're going. So clearly there's a part two, part three, part fifty to this.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:36

Yes, there is.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:37

Um hit the website. Tell us if you want to hear part two or part three, or if you have stories. Um because I definitely don't want to see us keep hitting a topic that people are like, nope, we get it, we're good. Right. Move on.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:53

Oh, 100%. Uh thank you.

SPEAKER_03 1:12:54

We we can talk about anything all day. We we don't care. Um right, exactly. But um, no, if if you want to hear more of it, let us know. If not, we'll move on. I I know Ron probably has things he would love to say, uh, but like you said, he couldn't be with us tonight, so we'll we'll have to wait and see if he gets an option at at a round two on this. Um okay, that's my that's my two cents.

SPEAKER_02 1:13:21

So now you can definitely, yeah, definitely hit up the website and you know, reach out, let us know what you want to talk about. And also let us know if you want to do like a mailbag episode where you all write in stories, write in things, and we go through and discuss it. It's a fun way to grow and learn as we make this podcast happen. But with all that being said, thank you so much for listening, and we'll catch you in the next one.