The Grove Guys
A group of guys, having conversations about our experience and lives. As we discuss what it is to have compromise on (social, political, and cultural) issues. Starting in the roots of community.
The Grove Guys
Have The Power
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The Grove Guys are back! The Original four all in the same room. We talk power in politics and life.
Quotes heard in the podcast: #FairUse
“ Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great man are almost always bad men.”
(Bishop Creighton, 1887)
“Unlimited power is apt to corrupt the minds of those who possess it”
(Earl Of Chatham, 1770)
“When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace.”
(Jimi Hendrix)
“Power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will
(Fredrick Douglas, 1857)
“Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor, it must be demanded by the oppresse.”
(Martin Luther King)
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How's it going, everybody? My name is John. I'm here with the rest of the Grove Guys. We've got Ron, Chad, and Steven here, the original four. Um, and tonight we are talking about power in politics, kind of as a general topic. Um, and you know, the idea of power and what it does and why it affects so many people, why it doesn't affect people, what's you know, what's the deal with it? We'll start local, um, and then we'll go more kind of a national stage or even international stage if we so choose to. You know, where wherever it takes us is where we're gonna go. Uh, but for now, let's talk about one or three very important things that I feel kind of define power in politics, and that is dominance, which is the fact or state of being dominant, um, you know, and assuming sorry, assuming your control over a certain certain situation, and then pressing that control and forcing it is kind of more what dominance is talking about. Um, sociology, just controlling the prevailing and powerful positions, especially in the social hierarchy, because every country, every community, everybody has everywhere you look, there is a social hierarchy. You know, who's in charge, who's at the bottom. It's it's going to exist whether we want it to or not, but there are ways to kind of work around it and work with it. Um, and then the most important one, sycophant. Uh, and that is a servile, self-serving flatterer, one who praises those in power in order to gain their approval. And these are the people that for me are the scariest because these are the people that led. I know we said we'd start local, but let's kind of go back and break it his rule before we even I did.
SPEAKER_04John got started.
SPEAKER_03Let's go back in history real quick. The first time that I heard the word sycophant was in response to um Nazi Germany back in the 1930s, and how Hitler surrounded himself with people that basically were yes men. That's basically what sycophants are. You know, the yes men. What can I do for you? How can I make it better? How can I make it, you know, blah, blah, blah. Um looking at today, even within our community, we do have yes people in our community, people who you know, a police officer said it, therefore I should obey it because they're a position of power. The sheriff said it, I should obey it because they're in a position of power. But what we should be doing is questioning that power and saying, wait a minute, uh, is that actually the rule? Is that actually the law? Or are you just abusing your said power? And politicians on local and national levels do this every day where they just use their assumed power to do and say things that aren't necessarily true. But as we talked about in previous episodes of The Grove Guys, you know, now today with the internet, once something is said and posted, it then spirals. And where it goes, you know, it may go in a completely different direction than someone wants it to go. And I could even say, you know, I or defund the police is a great example of this. People took that in in a completely different direction than what it means. Oh, defund the police means you hate the police and you don't you want nothing to do with them. It's like, no, I never said that. But you know, that idea that I the concept of spiraling and then these you know dominance coming in, sociology of how how our societies work, you know, the sycophants, everything that kind of blends this all together is what we're gonna be discussing tonight. And in the style of the Grove Guys who wants to go or jump in.
SPEAKER_04Everybody points at Steve's got this look. Everybody points at Steve. Okay, the two of them did.
SPEAKER_03I did not for that.
SPEAKER_04I was trying to not hog the mic today, but you know.
SPEAKER_00Good. Um need your wisdom, Steve.
SPEAKER_04I know. Um so yeah, I mean, I I think for for me, I'm not so sure. Well, there's different kinds of power. I guess I would start with that, right? Right. So when you have uh police officers or people in uh official authority, let's call it, right? So they're they're charged with giving direction and and helping keep the order in the public. That to me feels a little bit different than um having uh uh you know a uh mayor or a governor or whatever, and they surround themselves with appointees that are uh only there to do their bidding. Right. So um that's what that's what I would consider sycophantic, is is those uh I want to go national so bad, I want to go national so bad, but you're trying to hold me here. All right. So we might as well just run with it. Anyway, well, I mean, we we can see when people are getting appointed into positions at any level, but I mean it's very clear nationally right now. People are getting appointed into positions that they don't have the experience for, they don't have the background for, they don't have the intelligence for, yeah, they're not qualified, etc.
SPEAKER_03etc.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, completely unqualified. And uh the only reason that they're there is because they are kissing the ass of the person that's appointing them. That to me is the true nature of uh being a sycophant. So uh I think it's a little different locally, like we don't we don't really have. I mean, I'm I'm sure that uh you know the council members or whatever have people that are uh you know tr trying to yes them to death in order to increase their own power. That's one of the things that quite honestly I find extremely frustrating. It's not this is not a person in power problem, right? That's part of the problem, right? But it's also the people that are being sycophantic, right? So they're giving up their author uh not authority, that's the wrong word, but they're they're giving up their uh position or their belief, let's say, for a chance to be powerful, right? Because they just want to climb that ladder and get close to the person that's really making the the machine go. So that to me is the worst part of it. There, you know, when you have when you have power, it's very difficult to give that power up, right? That's just a fact of life. What if you're the older sibling, just as a stupid example, if you're the bigger older brother, or some this probably applies to sisters too, I wouldn't know. But uh you're not going to let your younger brother beat you, run faster, you know, whatever. You're gonna do whatever you can to hold on to that power as long as you can do it. That's just the way that humans are coded, right? There's a there's a pyramid of dominance, and our drive is to be at the top of that pyramid of dominance.
SPEAKER_03Can be to be at that top of the drive.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it doesn't mean that that's I'm not suggesting that's the right thing, but that's how the world worked before writing and whatever, right? That this is this is how we've evolved. So we still do those things, and you can clearly see it in children, right? When they want to be at the top, they want to be the the the one on the playground that's yeah, the king of the mountain, right? So when people move into adulthood, some people um have that same issue where they're unwilling or unable to share power with others, and that's obviously a problem. I think it takes part of part of growing up is learning how to not be on top of that pyramid. Um so sooner or later somebody was better than you at something, and you weren't at the top of that pyramid, right? Some people deal with that well, some people don't deal with that well. Uh and and this is where you know we learn those things as children. But some people, for whatever reason, stay on the top of that pyramid and they are unwilling to give anybody else a shot at that cat bird seat. So uh, you know, I I I think that's something that we've got to figure out. How how do we share with our brothers and sisters, not literally brothers and sisters, but you know, you know, our community. How do we share that power with the community and make sure that everybody has a voice?
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04How do we find those people that don't feel like they have a voice and lift them up so that they do? Uh you know, that this is a problem that's bigger than um just like I said before, it's not just the people in power, it's the people that keep those people in power, it's the people that um give up on ever having power, right? Like every everybody's got a part to play, and at the end of the day, we've got to figure out how to get through that, right?
SPEAKER_02Well, go ahead.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say I was also thinking how it ties into businesses.
SPEAKER_04Oh, yeah.
SPEAKER_01And it's yeah, for sure, it's that same thing. You get somebody that doesn't want to give up power because they know best. So, I mean, I can remember when I was younger, oh yeah, I wanted as much power as possible. As I got older, I'm like, I don't want it. Just you can have it, yeah. Exactly. Once you figured out what it was, you're like, no, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Right. And then to be clear, in terms of I feel like the word power is the appropriate word there, but we also need to kind of define when we're saying power, most of this comes down to money. Because money gives you the freedom to exert the power that you have, whatever power that is, and just the prestige that the money gives you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Well, sadly, within our society, we've allowed that to happen to where money equals power. Yeah. Instead of people having the power.
SPEAKER_01It's not so much that, it's money equals knowledge. So you know best. Right. And thus you should have power. You're successful. Yes, right. Even though you may have had multiple bankruptcies and failed businesses. Right, right.
SPEAKER_03And totally, yeah, right. Uh yeah, side note.
SPEAKER_04I also think though, on the flip side of that coin, we're seeing some situations right now where money is not equaling power. And that's to me, that feels uh very, very good. Right. I mean, we're we're not there yet, but we can see the glimmer of I mean, hell, L Said outspent 11 to 1, right? Yeah is that it? So, I mean, uh if you can buy an election, that election would have been bought. Yeah, they sure as hell tried.
SPEAKER_03And it happened you know a couple of years back in was it Wisconsin Wisconsin?
SPEAKER_04With the Supreme Court. Are you thinking about the Supreme Court Justice?
SPEAKER_03Elon tried to buy. Yeah. Yeah. And they were basically just like, yeah, no, like this is up to us, not to you.
SPEAKER_04Proto Sawitz, that was her name.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, well, and unfortunately though, unfortunately though, we had Massey's situation where that did work out for him.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_00Right. Right. Well, I mean, we granted different sides of the aisle We're not winning all the time, right?
SPEAKER_04The people, the people without the money aren't winning all the time, but it wasn't long ago when they weren't winning at all. Yeah, right. So we're starting to see that transition where the people are tired of not having a voice.
SPEAKER_01They're paying a little more attention.
SPEAKER_04Look at how many people, new people came out to vote in Michigan in this primary. Holy crap. Yeah, yeah. Guess when we saw something else like that. Do you remember a little primary not too awful long ago? Right?
SPEAKER_002020.
SPEAKER_04No.
SPEAKER_00No, we're talking about our primary.
SPEAKER_042025, uh 2026.
SPEAKER_00This primary.
SPEAKER_04So uh, you know, Don Don drove out a bunch of new voters and again outspent, I don't know, what was the number of three to one three to one. Uh outspent three to one by the um, you know, the candidate that has been running for that seat previously and uh prevailed. You know? So so the the people are coming to, right? Waking up a little bit.
SPEAKER_03And even if you take the politics out of the money for a second and still use money as the power, you know, if you look at our judicial system as a whole, if you have money, it's easy to afford the lawyer, it's easy to you know buy off. I don't want to say buy off the judge, but that it's easy to it's easier to get through the system. You know, it costs money to be poor. It costs money not to have money.
SPEAKER_04Money is access.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And when you don't have that, and when you don't have a means to that, even though you are a functioning member of society, there are limitations to what you can do. Um and you know, as long as I stay like you know, as the example myself, like as long as I stay educated and plugged in and in tune with my morals, you know, the things that made me build this podcast, I'll see that this dominance isn't something that I want. I'll see that these people that are telling me this, that, or the other. It's like, no, I I know what should happen here. I know what, you know, yeah where I should be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. And I that's the one thing that frustrates me so much because the people in power know what's best for you.
SPEAKER_03You've never met me.
SPEAKER_01And they never listen.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_01It would be different if they were holding town halls on a regular basis, talking to people, understanding where they're coming from, what their situations are, and then moving forward from that. But they're not, they're just like, this keeps me in power, so this is what is best for you. Yeah.
SPEAKER_04I I just heard a story about this. I'm trying to try it. Must have been on a podcast. I'm sure that's probably what it was. Yeah, I know.
SPEAKER_01That's hard to believe.
SPEAKER_04Cheating on us. But yeah, just gleaming wisdom. But the the the gist of the story was that it might have even been Houston, maybe. It doesn't matter. That's not really what's important here. Uh, the gist of the story was they were at some conference and he was speaking about what it takes to be successful. He's like, if you know, just give all of your effort and you know, you get your first job and you're making fifty-seven thousand dollars a year and you can afford them with like, whoa, timeout, time out, timeout. Not everybody, you know, the the average is not where everybody is, yeah, folks. That's that's not the number that everybody's at. Half the people are lower than that.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, hence the word average.
SPEAKER_04Exactly. So to think that the average is enough to buy you, uh not buy you, rent you a home, have a car, whatever, that means half the people can't do that stuff. So I'm you know, the I think I and I say that just to point out the the amount of disconnect between those people that have the power and the money that feel like they're a regular guy, but they're not a regular guy, dude.
SPEAKER_01Right. And there's there's two things about that. So yeah, maybe they have a job that would allow them to have a home, have a car. How many of those middle earners are overextended and can't really pay for what they have because they're trying to be to look successful? Um and then yeah, to your point, Steve, they they always want to say, We're we're the common man, we know. Well, yeah, when you have a double lot in the only one in your neighborhood, um, clearly you are a little more privileged. When you can sit there and say, Oh, I can drop $5,000 to repair concrete at my home, where somebody else is like, I can drop five dollars a month for the next 60 years um to pay for that.
SPEAKER_04You know, it's well, I mean, what just to zoom out a little bit when you need to go from Columbus to Dayton, so you jump on your private jet, right? Right? Like, I mean that that's not in touch, folks. Yeah, like that's not real.
SPEAKER_0370 gets you there in an hour, you're fine.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, like maybe a little less because there's a lot of construction, but still playing better, right? Exactly.
SPEAKER_04Just go at night. I mean, we've got a lot of people in control, uh, control is probably not the right word, in positions of power. We've got a lot of people in positions of power that have no idea how to relate to everyday people that work everyday jobs in everyday towns, and don't want to.
SPEAKER_03No, they don't want to relate. There was a segment from like the Ellen show back in the day where she had Bill Gates on and she did like the prices right style. Oh, yeah, yeah. How much is this? And Bill Gates had, you know, no offense to him, but like the dude had no idea how much a can of a can of corn was.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_03It's like how much his toothpaste? He d he doesn't he doesn't know. Right. When was the last time he bought that?
SPEAKER_01He like it just shows up out of touch. Somebody's probably brushing his teeth for him.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right. Oh, he's got a machine that does it in a little robot arm.
SPEAKER_00But I mean, but that comes down to the differences between somebody that showers before work and somebody that showers after work. Yep. You know, and that's the whole divide that we've got to understand. But the people that shower before work have done a lot of work to get the people that shower after work to think that they're the ones that have all the answers and the ones that they should follow through. And the and you know, they're the they're voting against their own interests, uh, you know, on a lot of grounds.
SPEAKER_03Because they've been scapegoated as well. People in power scapegoat and blame others, and so you're not, you know, you don't look up to blame, you look left, you look right to blame. You're not looking up.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, and I mean, there's some unions that choose to support someone that maybe doesn't have the best interest of their members in mind. That's right. You know?
SPEAKER_04Well, if they give a big enough donation or if they give it exactly.
SPEAKER_00Or if they look at what's going on now as opposed to what could take place later, and that's that's something that's kind of irritating. It's like, oh, this is happening now that we, you know, for instance, with data centers, is I know that you have a lot of unions that are like, oh, our members are building this and you know, they're getting their paychecks. Okay, cool. But what about having a plan where people can come in and build homes that others can actually afford in six months from? Now, what's this going to look like?
SPEAKER_01Well, and so to talk about data centers, because I'm gonna go local right now. So to sit there and be part of ward one and have my council representative that happens to also be the president of city council bring in an outsider of ward one that's part of the union that's all pro data center because they want the jobs. That's very frustrating because that's not what the people in this ward are telling him that they want. Yeah. But he's got power and he's been in power for a while, and he's like, I know what's better.
SPEAKER_03I know what's best, right? Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So he can stay at home on his double lot and I'll just stop right.
SPEAKER_04That that particular one almost feels like a thumb in the eye on purpose, right? Like, um, you know, whatever. It doesn't matter. So um, but yeah, I I hear what you're saying. Hey, real quick, back to your point about looking left and right to blame. We look left and right to blame so that we can pretend like we're looking down. Right? So that that's really what's going on here is you you can't you can't look up and blame that person because you can't be above them. But the guy to your right and the girl to your left, you can look at them and act like you're bigger than they are, right? And and that's uh it's a shame, but it's reality.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but that's also how the social hierarchy always worked.
SPEAKER_00Well, it's the whole concept of biting the hand that feeds you, and that that's the whole concept is if you say something to the person above you, is that oh, they're gonna come after you and do something and take your take your food away. Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, but see, this is the this is the trick though, is it feels like that if You're one-on-one, but because we live in that pyramid, right? Community, yes, that too. But we we live in that pyramid structure where the further up you go, the smaller number of people exist at that level, right? So when you're looking up, there's a bunch of people at your level that are feeling that same pressure down from that person that's above you. If all of you stand up, not even all, but if if a good chunk of you stand up, you're more than that person. Yeah. Like, not that you're not more than that person, anyways, but I mean, you you can take on that power, I guess, is without the big thing.
SPEAKER_03And there's that there's that video of that of the guy, not a video, it's like a little meme thingy of the guy with a whip in the crowd, they're all bowing and he whips, and they all bow, and then they and then the one dude stands up and he whips, and one dude stands up, and then the next one is like three people standing up, yeah, whips, and then everybody stands up, and now the dude with the whip is bowing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_03It's like, yeah, that that's the concept you're talking about.
SPEAKER_04That's how it works. That's how it works.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think what's really sad is you know, at that level, people are looking left and right, but the people below them might actually be willing to help the people above them that are overextended, which is just so mind-boggling.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, so it if you realize, and this is this is the trick of the whole human experience, I think to me, that that try that pyramid that I'm talking about isn't really a pyramid, it's a triangle. And if you lay it flat, everybody's at the same level, right? So at the end of the day, we need to be reaching out to everybody that's as fortunate as us or less, and understanding how we come together to make something better. We don't have the resources of the people at the top, right? That's fine, but we have the numbers, right, and we have the rights, right? So for me, that's that's kind of where I'm at. I mean, that the world we live in right now is a scary friggin' place. And I'm not just talking about the US, I'm talking about the world generally. This happens everywhere and has been happening everywhere, yeah. And and here, I'm not even just talking about Trump and uh, you know, our currently uh current Republican MAGA uh party, yeah. Although that's our current example of this, but the Democratic Party does the same. Not we're just not in they're not at the top of the pyramid right now, they're down the pyramid a little bit, but they still think that they're above us.
SPEAKER_01And they know better.
SPEAKER_04That's right. So um, you know, this this is not a a right-left thing. This is a have and have not thing.
SPEAKER_02An up-down thing.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So um, you know, a lot of our a lot of our examples might sound like they're pushing back on the MAGA or Republican side, but that's just because you know, we're most of us are not in tune with that. So it's easy, easy for us to point point the finger there. But there's plenty of fingers to point at the at the uh Democratic side too.
SPEAKER_00Well, Abdullah Al-Syed, that his race is yeah a perfect example of that because that was two Democrats Establishment Democrats, yeah, you know, and so yep, yeah.
SPEAKER_03So with all that being said, let's take a quick break and we'll be right back.
SPEAKER_04Hey folks, coming up on August 30th, that's a Sunday at Spillman Farms. We're gonna have the vote voice and vintage car and bike show to support the CCA, the uh amendment that we're putting on get rid of the data center. So uh the entry fee for the car show is 10 bucks. We're gonna have uh a registration from 11 to 1, live music from 12 to 2, and the words will be at 3. So come share your afternoon with us. Support giving the voice to the people of Grove City. Uh also, if if you're uh not aware or confused by some of the things you're seeing online, feel free to go to the website protectgrovecity.org, uh, and check that out. If you have any questions, you can reach out right through that website or on the Facebook page, and we'll be happy to help you out. Uh again, that's uh August 30th is the actual car show, and we'll see you out there. Have a great day.
SPEAKER_03So we're talking about power dominance and all that fun stuff. Uh, let's talk about where one of the most famous power quotes came from. It came from a letter to the British politician Lord Acton from Bishop Mandel Crichton in 1887, where Crichton said, power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. Great men are almost always bad men. Now, Crichton didn't come with that by himself. He he kind of rewarded a segment of a speech delivered by William Pitt the Elder in 1770, who said, Unlimited power is apt to corruption, the minds of those and to the minds of those who possess it. And you know, that is those two quotes are are true that you know power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely. But the question for me has always been but at what level and what cost? Because even if you have the power, even if it does corrupt you, yeah, you know, we let's think of Harry Potter for a hot second, right? Yeah, just go back to our this will tie in. I got you. So when it comes to We just lost about 20, 30 I did, but I'm being generous on subscribers there, but you should come back to listen, listen, listen to what I have to say. So in the Harry Potter universe, there's things called whore cruxes that split your soul. And you the only way you make one is by killing somebody. You kill someone, it splits your soul, you now have a whore crux.
SPEAKER_04But if this is way too deep for all the potter heads out there, at some point like that's a millennial talking.
SPEAKER_03At some point, you regret what you did. You regret the murder, you regret making the whore crux, you are no longer bound to that whore cux. So basically, it's the idea of forgiveness, and I'm sure the pastor can talk more about this as the pastor.
SPEAKER_04You know anything about whore cruxes? He does.
SPEAKER_00I do I know both. I'm I'm following him completely. I know exactly what he's he's he's going with here.
SPEAKER_03So it's that idea of forgiveness that if you get called out on something, you know, and this for all those people in power, you get called out on something, something gets exposed that you know you didn't want or or you know defames you in some type of way. If you can own it and say, Yes, I did do that, that's who I was, that's not who I am, yeah, seek forgiveness for it, be apologetic, seek an amend for it, make it right, then I don't think that you'll be absolutely corrupted for the rest of the time. I don't think that you'll not if you learn from it.
SPEAKER_01Right. That's the key, you gotta learn from it. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And as somebody who went through the amend process with my own, you know, addiction, it there were people who you know said, Thank you so much, and you know, hugs ensued. And I have great relationships with those people. There are people who just said, Okay, and it was kind of a neutral. But then there are also people who said, you know what, you, I don't, I don't care that you're that you're making yourself better. You wronged me, and I'm not gonna forgive you. But I have to be at the point where I say, that's fine. If that's where you are, that's completely fine. But I also have to keep that door open of just hey, if if down the line and it ever comes to it, and you you want to talk, you you wanna you wanna harbor a relationship again, my door's open now. And I'm you know, I'm ready for it, but I also because I learned from it and I wanted to seek forgiveness, and I was regretful of the actions that brought me to whatever that position was. So that's kind of where I was going with that. But I don't want to put you on the spot, Pastor, but I kind of do because forgiveness and Harry Potter, you're you know that that is your that's your wheelhouse, man.
SPEAKER_00No, I think that the one thing about forgiveness is that it's not the the misnomer is that whenever you give someone forgiveness, is that it is you giving of yourself, giving up yourself to give this other person power. And it's not giving somebody forgiveness is you saying, you know what, this happened, but it's not going to be something that I allow to constantly dwell on. Yeah. You know, and that's that's the thing with, you know, and I and I get it, to where people are like, you know, I can never forgive this person for this, and you know, because they did this or they did that. And and I understand that, but the forgiveness is not for the one who wronged, it's for the one who was wronged. Right. And it's a freedom to get rid of that, to where somebody is, you know, saying, you know what, yeah, this happened to me, but you no longer have the power over me to be able to, you know, allow me to dwell upon that, to focus my my thoughts and my my whole perspective on that. And and and you know, and that's how something that I've always you know sought to teach people and to provide to people is that whenever you do forgive someone, is it's not about them, it's always about you. And and that's that's that's something that I've I've tried to instill within my kids and you know, and to take, you know, from there. But I but like I said, I do get it to where people are like, I could never give my forgiveness to that because they they they just to them that's like letting that let letting it go. And it's not that they're letting it go in a way of condoning it, it's that you let it go in a way of saying that it doesn't control you anymore. And so that's my two cents.
SPEAKER_03Oh, and that's that's kind of what I you know what I thought that you the way in which I thought you would go for that, because you know, f that's why I love in in the a in AA, for those of you that don't know, because some people don't, but a lot of people do. But in the process of AA, one of the one of the steps is you know, write out your amends and then go make your amends. Go seek the forgiveness, go clear your the idea is clear your side of the street.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Um and own up to everything that you've done, you know, because you're responsible for your actions. And I feel like sometimes these people in power you know, displace that you know, I'm not responsible for my actions. My actions, you know, I I make them because, you know, as we were saying earlier, I know what's best. And it doesn't reflect on me. If it doesn't work for you, that reflects on you. You're the problem. And it's like, no, no, no. Your actions, what you do as an individual, is on you. Um and you know, whether you want to admit that to yourself, fine. Whether you want to seek the forgiveness for it, you know, great. But I still think the hardest thing for people to do is admit that they were wrong. Admit that they messed up. I I and I you may disagree with me, you listening, y'all sitting at this table, but for me, the hardest thing to do is to admit that you're wrong and to take the accountability for it. Because there's gonna be a lot of judgment, there's gonna be a lot of pain, there's gonna be a lot of trauma that comes out of that. But I feel like in order to protect yourself from being corrupted by the power, you have to, you know, admit when you abused it, you have to admit when you, you know, took advantage.
SPEAKER_00Well, and I think the thinking in regards to like, you know, being a parent or you know, a sibling, you know, a son or whatever is that whenever you mess up, it's important to relay that information to especially to your child, you know, because there's been many times that I've said and done things that I've just been like, oh uh and you know, and I've tried to go and make amends, you know, with with with my kids. And there's been some times where I've tried to go make that mends, and like what you had spoken to is like, no, you really upset me in this, and I'm I'm going to I'm not ready yet. I'm not ready yet. I'm not I'm not willing to speak to that. I'm not willing to process through that. And it's like, I understand that that's the case right now, and you have to be able to process through that instead of trying to get them or pull them in, like, no, no, no, you gotta understand. I'm really sorry. I'm really sorry about this. You have to come to me. Yeah, and you know, and it's like, no, I'm establishing that I did wrong. I recognize that I did wrong. And if you're not ready to process or talk through that, that's okay. That's not on me, and that's not on you. It's giving you the ability and the space to process.
SPEAKER_03Doors open whenever you're ready. Come on in. Correct.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. So I I don't know if you guys could hear me furiously typing. Chad's probably gonna take that out, I hope. Uh I didn't hear it. We're good.
SPEAKER_02Oh, good. It didn't, it didn't come through.
SPEAKER_04Nice. They tell me I power type at work, but nevertheless. Noise gate to the rescue.
unknownGood.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, it looks like it's also raining outside. Y'all have no idea.
SPEAKER_04I looked up a few uh additional quotes here that I think are uh apt in per pro. Yes. So two two of them are mirror images of each other, probably because one read the other one before he made his. But the the first one was Frederick Douglass in 1857. So power concedes nothing without a demand. It never did and it never will.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yeah.
SPEAKER_04So I think I think uh well, let me give you the second one first, because like I said, it's just almost a restatement of the same thing, maybe a little uh more eloquent. Uh free you you can tell me who you think. This might might have said this. Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor, it must be demanded by the oppressed. Anyone? No, come on, folks. Gandhi. No, nothing. MLK.
SPEAKER_03Okay, MLK. Yep. I was close. You were close, you were close.
SPEAKER_04You were in the neighborhood. So I I think but both of those uh quotes uh obviously um dealing with racial oppression like in the most significant way that you can. Um, but I think that applies everywhere, right? When when there's power, it's not going to give you something because it wants to. That's not how power works, right? So you have to go to the power and demand that you get your due.
SPEAKER_03Or take it.
SPEAKER_01Right. And I think the hard part about that, especially looking at like politicians, is they have the power, but they forget they represent the people.
SPEAKER_04Well, they sometimes, sometimes they forget they represent the people. Sometimes they forget what representing the people means. Right. So if you ask them, they would say once they got power, they don't care. They would say, Yeah. If you if you ask Mike Carey, he's gonna say, Oh, yeah, I represent the people, but he's forgotten long ago. If he ever knew he's forgotten long ago, what that what did that look like?
SPEAKER_03Yeah, right.
SPEAKER_00Well, whenever you go on his page, I'm just gonna put this out there because it's something that irritates me to no end. Whenever you go to who is Mike on Mike Carey, his first line underneath it says pro-Trump. So to me, that all it says is that whatever Trump says that he's has to do, that's what he's gonna do. He doesn't care what constituents in District 15 do.
SPEAKER_03That's right. So he's forgotten the people, he's forgotten right, yeah.
SPEAKER_04That's right. So um, yeah, yeah. So what so one more one more quote, uh that which is really the one I was looking for, but then I went down a rabbit hole. As one does, yeah, it happens often. So um, when the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace. Anyone got that one? Nobody's gonna guess that one. John went in. No, you're closer than you think, though.
SPEAKER_03Elton John. No, Bruce Springsteen.
SPEAKER_04Uh-uh. Nobody? Willie Nelson. Jimi Hendrix. Jimi Hendrix. Okay. Jimmy Hendricks. All right, one more time. You were you were at least in music. Yes, yeah. Uh, one more time. When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Is that something from like Woodstock? I don't know. It just sounds like it's around that time. Maybe I saw it on the Woodstock movie. Maybe that's where I saw it. I don't know. Probably.
SPEAKER_03I can just see and then I can just see him going. And here's the anthem.
SPEAKER_00Well, and and everybody knows I'm biased, but I'm just gonna speak to it. Is that one thing about Don Leonard that can speak to that right there is that he has a love for the constituents of District 15. You know, and one thing that uh really struck me the other day was when uh uh a gentleman, um, you know, he has cerebral palsy, and he spoke his his truth and saying that in his 30 years of life, he's had politicians tell him, you know, good job on having a job, you know, great, great doing this. And he goes, only did I feel after speaking with Don Leonard, did I feel like somebody actually cared about me and actually knew what it took to go and represent me. And he said, That's why I'm so proud to put my vote to sending Don Leonard. And that's the that's the thing, is it's a power he had the power of love versus this love of power.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, and and you you know, I again this isn't this isn't the We Love Don podcast, but maybe it should be for five minutes. But uh, you know, at the end of the day, I think this is one of the things that really uh attracted me to him too, was that I mean he's a smart guy, he's a real smart guy. Look, uh, but he will listen to what you have to say, not to respond, but to understand.
SPEAKER_03Truly listen.
SPEAKER_04Right, he he has an active listening. That's something that you do not find in politicians very much. They're all when I'm not gonna say any names. So we were at an event, politicians going table to table, shaking hands, kissing babies, doing their thing. It didn't matter what you said, right? I could have asked them what color their underwear, he would have been, oh ha ha ha ha, thanks, nice to see ya, and he would have gone on to the next table. It was not paying any attention to me at all. But the when you find people that are willing to try to connect with you, it's so different. It's so different, and that's why I I say all the time, I put it on all kinds of posts everywhere. If you can go see him in person, it's it's when you look at the ads, they're ads, right? He the some of them are really good. I love his stuff. I'm not not saying that that's not important, but it is completely different to talk to Don in person than it is in uh you know to see him on TV or whatever. Actually, his uh video interviews and podcasts are pretty because you can see the inner personal interaction there too. Um, but you know, if you can go shake that guy's hand and then tell me that you you don't think he's the right guy. I dare you. I dare you. Yeah. You guys, you guys want to say anything before we change the channel a little bit? Good.
SPEAKER_03It's well, it's because to that Jimi Hendrick quote, it's because he understands, first of all, he's a member of District 15. He actually lives in the district, he's been around to enough of the district um that you know he understands what it is to be the constituent based on his past, too. You know, yeah. We t if you don't know his story, go back and listen. Oh, we can plug ourselves. Go back and listen to the Don, the Don cast. The Don Pod. Um but he you know how he grew up, he understands the struggle, he understands that. You know, love is something like the love for his mom and the love that he felt from his mom is what got him through his life.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, you know, but he also knows he also knows his mom's not a perfect individual. Right, right. 100%.
SPEAKER_01So when he knows he's not a perfect individual. That's right.
SPEAKER_04I mean, this is this is the trick. It's real, folks. It's real. It's easy. There's no bullshit in there.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04There's no bullshit.
SPEAKER_01Well, and you know what else he wants to do? He wants to foster community.
SPEAKER_04More than that, he wants he wants to be part of the community. He doesn't just want to lead it, he wants to be in it. And that's very that's also very different. This comes back to the power thing, too. Some people lead by getting into the top of that pyramid and saying, Hey, everybody, follow me. Some people get in the crowd and say, Hey, let's all go this way.
SPEAKER_03Well, isn't that the difference between a manager and a leader?
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03Because you can be a you know, you can be a manager in an organization and have power, and yet everyone behind your back, everyone's talking shit about you. No one cares about you. Well, and that's no one doesn't like you.
SPEAKER_00That's one thing that I've reiterated to him and to you know others that I've gotten a chance to speak to is that that night of the primary when he won.
SPEAKER_04Oof. That was a lot.
SPEAKER_00It was all of us crossing that finish line.
SPEAKER_04It was. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00It wasn't us in the stands watching him run the race.
SPEAKER_04It was a crazy room, too, man. It was a crazy room.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. You know, and I hated that I couldn't have been there, but you know, but the but but knowing that we were there, you know, that the this race was all of us crossing that line together. It wasn't just us watching this take place, and that's the difference that I really feel.
SPEAKER_01You're right. Well, and and Don never said I did it. Uh-uh. It was we we did it.
SPEAKER_03We did it. That was one of the first things he said in his speech. Yep. Yeah. So before we move on, hi Don. Thank you, Don. I'll be sure to let him know.
SPEAKER_04We're glad you're part of the community. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And you're welcome back anytime.
SPEAKER_04I know what he'll be listening to on his next drive to Hillsborough. There we go.
SPEAKER_03I'll make sure of it. Um, yeah, but when it comes to this power and this thing they were talking about, you know, the love of people and taking accountability for yourself and making those amends. You know, whole brightly in the news right now in Ohio is a story about um a representative that shouldn't be a representative, if I'm being completely honest. Um and I bring that up because you know, I I knew the guy back in the day. We weren't necessarily friends, but we were classmates and we we played basketball together, we hung out together. Um, you know, I I I know where his parents live, he knows where, or at least one of my parents lives. Um, you know, we know each other on a level whether or not we whether or not if I went up to him right now and I introduced myself, he would remember is a different story. But we are of course talking about Max Miller, um and the allegations against him, the evidence against him, and just the fact that like most people in power, as it has seemed over the past, I would say, ten years, whenever something is brought to an official, the the first thing is to scapegoat, the next thing is to blame, the next is to deny, and there seems to be this script of I didn't do it you missed the gaslighting, you missed the game. Yeah, gaslighting is in there. But the script is to you know do what I you know I've seen Max done. All the daycare is responsible for those bruises.
SPEAKER_00And it's like no, no. And these are all allegations, if we want to make sure.
SPEAKER_03Well, 100%. But it's just like, okay, no. You know what has never been alleged of most people? This very thing.
SPEAKER_00Well, and there's multiple women that have come forward to say this. It's not just one.
SPEAKER_04I I hate the women thing, but it pales in comparison to the kid thing. Oh, absolutely. No, it doesn't matter. Absolutely. The line of the sand is not even just the the broken collarbone is a whole like that's unbelievably bad, and I'm not trying to defend that.
SPEAKER_02Or dismiss it.
SPEAKER_04But the systemic predation t torture is probably not the right word. The systemic uh I can't think of a better word though. Uh predatory attacks. Well, just the bunny thing. You guys heard the bunny story? Okay. So so the I'm I I don't know, I don't I don't know all the details. I'm repeating this from a story I heard on a podcast. But not ours. Uh it it's it will be now. Yeah, exactly. So long story short, the Max and the and the wife whose name is escaping me right now.
SPEAKER_00Emily Moreno.
SPEAKER_04So Emily, yeah. So they they split up. The kid has shared custody, goes back and forth, right? The kid has a toy rabbit. Uh apparently like her little blanket linus blanket kind of thing, right? So the kid has a toy, a toy rabbit, takes it to dad's house, comes back to mom's house, doesn't have the rabbit. Can I have my rabbit? Well, no, because uh your mother sent the aide to get it and she didn't come get it herself. Okay. Well, that that was his stated um defin uh uh uh excuse for not giving her the rabbit. So come to find out, there's a history of withholding the rabbit. Like this is a thing that he does, so that the kid wants to go back to dad's house because that's where the rabbit is. Of course, right? Because the kid doesn't want anything to do with dad because he's scary as hell.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04So the only reason she wants to go back there is to get the rabbit. And then yeah. So I mean, just manipulation. I should I said torture earlier, manipulation is probably a better word for it.
SPEAKER_03Psychological abuse.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yes, definitely, definitely. And I mean, just seems like one sick son of a bitch. Like, and I and I don't I don't mean that in just just the mean way that I think he's done something wrong, but I I seriously mean he needs help.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, like he needs help. Well, and instead of trying to, as I was mentioning earlier, instead of trying to scapegoat it, gaslight it, blame it, take accountability for it. It sucks, it's hard, but once you take accountability for it, you'll become a better, stronger person.
SPEAKER_04That's right. And and guess what? All of this is about power. Yep. Every drop of it, power over the child, power over the women, won't give up his seat in uh state, uh statehouse, uh, not statehouse.
SPEAKER_03Shit, US Congress.
SPEAKER_04So uh I got two I got two main things going on in there. Uh, but I mean it's all it's all about power. And there is there is zero reason that I can I I can think of why people aren't calling for him to drop out. Now they've started recently, but he has no intention of doing it because he thinks it's all bullshit, right? He thinks he's that that's one of the delusions of power, right? Is that you you think you've still got it even after it's gone. You can't you can't do it.
SPEAKER_03Well, then also you're in charge of the propaganda, you're in charge of the the media response to it. You're like you're selling it as if it's once again a scapegoat or a gaslight to something else.
SPEAKER_04That's right.
SPEAKER_01Well, and that feeling that there's others with power above him that will make sure he stays in power.
SPEAKER_04That's right. He thinks he's protecting that will help him out. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, that's right. It's it'll be interesting to see when people start to turn on him.
SPEAKER_04Well, I mean, it it took Marino, and I don't understand that either. I know he said he didn't want to put his daughter through re-litigating it and whatever, and I can understand that. But when that guy's running for Congress, I mean, I I don't know how you don't I I yeah, yeah, like all three of you have daughters.
SPEAKER_00If this is one of you know your daughters, I feel like all three of you would just be like, okay, I'm gonna do everything I can in my power to stop to prevent this guy from well and and the springboard from that, the something that's really upsetting to me is that our representative, Mike Carey, is allowing Max Miller on August 17th in Cleveland to host a fundraiser solely at the beneficiary is is Mike Carey. And people have called him out on this to say, you know, don't let him be your host. Call him out on this. Don't, you know, just don't and he refuses to respond. So to me, that shows what kind of integrity that you have if you're willing to allow somebody who has these allegations going against them, that you're allowing this power of corruption, the corruption of power.
SPEAKER_01No response is a response.
SPEAKER_03Correct. Yep.
SPEAKER_04You gotta think. I mean, I I've seen the other the other uh congressional candidates calling on him. I've seen Moreno calling him to step down. Houston, I don't think has said anything, right? Yeah. Oh, did he? Yes. Okay. That must have been recent. But anyhow, for Carrie to still be holding on, you gotta think. Somebody he's got he's got something on him, right? Why why else why else would he hang on to this so friggin' hard?
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_04I just I just can't comprehend it. I what I can't comprehend what else it would be.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right. It's because if you're not guilty, then you would just come out and say it. The fact that you're not saying it, the fact that you're hiding it, the fact that you're trying to cover it up, proves you know, non in it, but proves guilt.
SPEAKER_04It's worse than that, John. It's not that he doesn't come out and say anything, it's that he comes out and tries to defend it, and the defense is also horrible.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_04Right? Like it's it's worse than I didn't do it. He's not just denying it.
SPEAKER_00Well, the whole thing of where he was like, if I had actually done this, then why did six days later she make me a meal? Right. That's what that's how trauma works, dude.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I was yeah. You can ask anybody that's abused, and abuse is a loose term in this case, but anybody that's abused, they will do things to try to make it better.
SPEAKER_03You know, it just and if you want a podcast all about abuse, you can check out our podcast with Mandy.
SPEAKER_01I'm on a roll. Well, and you know, let's think about this. All of us married, how many times have our wives been mad at us but still made us a meal? You know, we we checked to make sure it wasn't poison. Um, but yeah, recently. But no, I mean it's just you know, yeah sometimes day-to-day stuff, people are like, well, why this? It's it's just the routine.
SPEAKER_03That's right. Well, no, I'm sure once again, if we could talk about you know the power aspect with you know, Emily of just like you know, into the bunny story. It's like, what is it about this that makes I feel like if a child refuses to be around an adult, there's a reason. Yeah, and the adult may be able to hide it from the other adults, but a child is always gonna be able to be like, yeah, no. Creepy vibe, don't like it.
SPEAKER_01That's right. Right. Yeah, I mean, kids know.
SPEAKER_03They well, even even pets know. My mom literally just sent me in our group, in our family chat, a thing of how your dog knows when you're happy, your dog knows when you're sad. You know, your dog, you know, it reads, it reads your facial cues, it reads everything about you. So even if I'm trying to hide it, like I'm not depressed, I'm not upset, you know, my dog knows. Um but again, like that idea of if you have nothing to hide, then not to say you'll want to show everything, but you'll have no problem having people look into things or having people come out and say things. You know, if these allegations weren't true, he wouldn't be looking for a scapegoat, he wouldn't be looking for another story, he would just be like, Okay, actually, I know the day you're talking about when she had that black eye. Here's ex here's what happened. Here's here's the story, here's what happened. And if he's innocent, then he would have no problem telling that story. But the fact that you know it's all blame the daycare or you know, this, that, or the other only goes to show that he's been corrupted by the power that he has, but also knowing him when he was younger, he I of course would never think that this would happen, that it would be at this level. But he he was he was always arrogant, he was always, you know, full of himself. Um and he always was looking for validation and didn't care if from a validation from his peers, it was all about people above him, and you know, like on the basketball court, I was above him in two ways. I was taller and I was older.
SPEAKER_00And so he did you know acknowledge me in that way, but I mean, you talking about it sounds like it was three that you were also better at basketball. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03He he was he was better. My my goal, my job in eighth grade basketball, rewind the clock's back, was to defend the biggest team, biggest guy on the other team. Like that, that was my job constantly. Because again, I was 5'11 and yeah, uh that was not a fun year of basketball. I got beat of a lot on the court by dudes that were like six foot and like 300 pounds. Like it's just oh what are you trying to say?
SPEAKER_02All right, well, and that when you're playing basketball against that guy, you you're you're beat by the end of the game, you're tired.
SPEAKER_01And and I'm not saying that there's any truth to this. I'm not trying to start anything, but I mean who knows what kind of childhood he had that may have created that right that needed that power, and and or maybe he was taught that's how you get the power. I there's a lot of men out there that will be abusive, demeaning to hold power that they don't deserve.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, yeah, and and I think there are also a lot of men that once they can't hold the power themselves, they'll live vicariously through their children and make sure their children hold that power. Yeah, so on and so forth. And like you said, I don't know anything about this guy's family, I have no freaking clue. And any of the stories that we're telling, that's you know, heard through other sources, yada, yada, yada. So uh yeah, I'm sure there are some details that are a little off, but the general idea of this stuff is batshit crazy.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Well, and just you know, the nature versus nurture thing, and even the reason why you know we started this podcast is you know, it's not just living vicariously through your children, it could be living vicariously through the social media star that you see, you know, hence the manosphere. Yeah, you've got you know, this idea that men are more powerful than women and it's okay. But at the end of the day, for me, I'm thinking, why does that matter? Why does this power matter so much? Why do we care so much about it?
SPEAKER_04You know, because why do we care so much about it?
SPEAKER_01Because we've been told from day one early on, yeah, that it's you gotta have the power, you've gotta be the best, you've got to like fame, you wanna be the popular kid, you wanna be the one making the most money.
SPEAKER_03The one making all the decisions, the one in charge. Like right.
SPEAKER_01I mean, even thinking about my career in in IT, early on it was you can teach someone how to do something, but you don't always teach them everything you know because you've got to make sure you hold on to something so that you're valuable and and you can't be replaced easily. You know, I mean that's just it's the way it is.
SPEAKER_03It's it's that idea of finite thinking versus infinite thinking. Finite thinking telling you that, you know, to that, I need to hold something above you because short term I need to be as successful as I can be. You know, this company needs to thrive while I'm here because I need to thrive. Whereas the infinite thinking is 10 years down the line, what's gonna happen.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, and and to go back to the whole, you know, median income, you need to hold that power so that you can get the house, get the car, be successful.
SPEAKER_03Live the life that you can afford.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, live the life that you can't afford, but you can look like you can on social media.
SPEAKER_03Well, it's perceived power, actual power. It's like I know you're over here thinking, why do we even want power?
SPEAKER_04It's not it's not that like there are reasons to want power, yeah, but there are what I would consider good reasons and bad reasons. If if you go into power because I'll I'll give I'll give you an example, not that I'm like whatever. But when I took the leadership role in my group at work, this is many, many, many years ago. I was a coder just like all the other guys, and uh our manager left and the position opened up. I'm like, do I really want to do this? If like if I do, if I if I become the manager, I'm not gonna get to build cool shit anymore. I'm gonna have to worry about you know, approving PTO and all the horseshit that I care less about. Yeah. And but but the result the uh the realization was if if I let somebody else take this role and they come in with that other mindset where they're just trying to get as much done as cheaply as they can, whatever, and my friends and co-workers have to suffer because of that, I I I couldn't I couldn't do that. I didn't want this job. Um, but I I certainly didn't want the rest of my team to fall uh under the leadership of somebody else uh that didn't have the best intention. And I knew some of the other people that were applying and they did not have the best intention. So I applied for it and I got it. And you know, I'm I've reached a point now where I'm like, look, going any higher doesn't help anybody. It would make me more money, but then I have more responsibility and I've got so much shit to do already. Like I I'm better just stay where I'm at, do my thing, protect my people. Right, that's how I roll. So for the point of the story, point of the story is there are different reasons to get into power. You can get into it for you, or you can get into it for the people that you're serving. And if you get into it for the people that you're serving, that's that's the kind of person that you want in that seat.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_04If you get into it for you, manager, you end up with some of the shit that we're seeing now. Right. Where they'll be able to drive, they'll be able to drive revenue because that's all they care about.
unknownRight.
SPEAKER_04Because that's that equals power for them, that equals more power for them. But they won't have the respect of their people. And and that's a tough thing. Um, but I also I've also seen people get into it for the right reason and then fall prey to the wrong reason. Right. So it's something you have to stay diligent at, right? And check in with yourself and with your team and make sure that you're there for the right reason.
SPEAKER_03Right. So like my mom and I had this conversation years ago, um, where you know what is success? Is success making a lot of money, or is success, you know, am I gonna be wealthy in the sense of money, or am I gonna be wealthy in the sense of my relationships and the people around me? And you know, not to say that you have to make a choice, but you you you kind of you have to play a balance game.
SPEAKER_04That's right.
SPEAKER_03Of you know, when you die, is it gonna is are people gonna love to break up your estate and get all your money, or are people gonna be going? You know, I think when my grandfather died, we were all around in the living room just talking, telling our favorite stories of grandad. Like our we were all just telling our favorite stories of the funny things that he did, the funny things he said. And you know, I was thinking this is a day we literally just put him in the ground. We should all be sad, and yet we're celebrating his life because he loved his family and he cared and he was Yeah, that's right. He was a leader, sure, but he and sure he had a lot of power, but it never it never got to him.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, it never Yeah, that's that's a good that's a great example, John. That's a great example. When when you when you lose somebody like that, I mean obviously. Losing them to death is one thing. In business, they move on to another role, whatever. You know, when when you lose somebody who's a leader in that kind of way, or has power, I guess we're calling it in that kind of way. Um it feels like double the loss. Right. Right. Now, to your point, it doesn't mean that you're sad, right? They've earned their they've earned their uh time in the sun, if you will. They should be able to go do what they want to do. But hopefully somebody picked up on what they were putting down.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right. And and can continue whatever that is.
SPEAKER_04That's right. That's right. Right. So, you know, I I I don't know. It's a weird thing. I uh I have a lot of thoughts on leadership like that.
SPEAKER_03So we can definitely talk about, you know, have an episode specifically on leadership if you want to hear it, you know, let us know. Kind of thing.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because there's all sorts of types of leadership, good and bad.
SPEAKER_03Yep.
SPEAKER_01And and it's funny because some that you may think are not that great work really well in certain companies and situations. That's true. And it doesn't mean they're bad, they're right for that situation. Um, it's it's about knowing the audience and the the people and what's gonna be best for them. Um that's right.
SPEAKER_03Even talking in politics, we've been talking about all the negative, but there are there's a lot of bad politicians, but there are a lot of good ones too.
SPEAKER_01And there's a lot of good politicians that have turned bad.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. And so it's like it's this is a complex issue that you know we are not gonna be able to get a full you know, yeah thing of here.
SPEAKER_04You know what's funny though? I can't think of any. I'm sure there are some. I can't think of any bad politicians that turned good.
SPEAKER_01I knew I that's why I didn't say it because I'm like, I don't think that happened.
SPEAKER_04There's there's no uh there's no Darth Vader redemption stories in politics that I can think of.
SPEAKER_03I mean, not necessarily in politics, but leadership I meant.
SPEAKER_04Leadership I meant. I was obviously thinking of politics, but yeah, I uh leadership generally. Once once they get corrupted, it's pretty hard to do.
SPEAKER_01Right. Once you have that power, it's you absolutely look at corrupts, absolutely. Well, you look at things differently, and you know, like we were saying earlier, you you don't understand the struggle of people below you.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, you know, well, but Steve, to your point with your with your team, you know, you've had the opportunity because how long ago did you get that job roughly? The job that you're currently in?
SPEAKER_0415 years, four or thirteen years, something like that.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so over a decade, right? So you've been in your position for over a decade, and I'm sure in that time you've gotten offers to move up and move on.
SPEAKER_05Yeah.
SPEAKER_03And yet, to your point, the thing that I loved and that I know about you is that you wanted to protect your community. There we go.
SPEAKER_04It's sorry, it didn't work on the trigger, chip. On the trigger there.
SPEAKER_01Oh, it didn't work.
SPEAKER_03Okay. It was a misfire.
SPEAKER_04You community. There it is.
SPEAKER_03You wanted you wanted to be there for them. And it was it wasn't about your success and your power. You understood that their success will lead to more success for you. That's right. Lead to more success for the company, like, and just have that ripple effect, if you will.
SPEAKER_04Great leaders make great leaders. Just just to be clear, it's not that I haven't been promoted, but I started leadership 13 years ago. And yeah, that you know, there have been but it's all been in my ranks, right? Right.
SPEAKER_03And there's been opportunity to take on more and do more things, but you're just like, no, I I know these people, I know what's going on here. That's right. I know this is where I can make an impact. And I feel like if more people in these leadership of our positions did things like that, said this is where I can make the most impact. Like, I think that's why we love Don Leonard.
SPEAKER_02Yeah.
SPEAKER_03You know, this is I can make an impact here. As long as I remember this and I remember the people that I work with, the people that I work for, just because I'm the one in charge doesn't mean that I'm the one that should get all the fame, get all the glory, get all the respect.
SPEAKER_01Right. Well, people that lead by example will always be successful. I mean, as long as it's good example they're leading by. Um But I mean, that's you know, a lot of great managers will have great employees that will then create great managers or directors or or VPs because maybe they want to take that power on, but they also learn the best way to interact with everybody and and it can be successful.
SPEAKER_02Right.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, to your point though, different leadership styles work on different teams. Part of part of making sure that you've got the team that you want is choosing people that fit your uh team, right? Like the the number one requirement for me to hire somebody new wasn't what they did in college, wasn't what their experience was, wasn't how much they wanted to make. It was can they sit in a room with my team and feel like part of my team? If if they're um you know, too set in their ways or whatever the case, too stiff, or that sounds bad, but I mean if the personality doesn't fit, it doesn't fit.
SPEAKER_03Right. Right. And it's and you're also interested in the diversity of the idea and the you know, in in in the fit in the puzzle, not making the puzzle fit to you or not just agreeing to agree, actually agreeing because you've had discussion, you've planned it out, you've talked about it, you know, compromised with it.
SPEAKER_02Yep.
SPEAKER_01Right. And it's funny because a lot of times when you're looking for that new person, you should always try to go with something you don't already have in your team. But the problem is when you do that, they don't gel with your team. And I think it's almost the same for politics too. If you look for something outside of what's normal, if if what's normal's working, it doesn't gel, which is kind of how we got all this messed up stuff that's you know, for for 15 years, we've gotten there.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, diversity is what you're talking about, right? Yeah, you need a diverse perspective, a diverse skill set. Right? But but I mean it has to mesh, right?
SPEAKER_03It has to mesh be willing to compromise, be willing to even if it doesn't mesh at first, you gotta be willing to compromise. You gotta be able to say, okay, my idea works, but maybe it's not the best.
SPEAKER_04You know, I'm I I don't ever say that, John.
SPEAKER_01I mean because because everything that Steve says is right. Ask Karen, it's all right.
SPEAKER_04That's that's not true.
SPEAKER_03I yeah, I think it's if y'all could have seen my face.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, I yeah, that you you're right, but I'm more more importantly than any of that stuff is for me, is is this a teammate or is this a guy on a team?
SPEAKER_01Right.
SPEAKER_04Right? That those are two different things, and one of them works and one of them doesn't.
SPEAKER_01Right. Yeah, a team is always stronger than a group of individuals.
SPEAKER_04That's correct.
SPEAKER_01So that's correct.
SPEAKER_02Because it's all about community.
SPEAKER_03All righty. Well, any final thoughts from anybody? This has been a delight. I hope you've enjoyed it just as much as we have. We'll catch you in the next one. Thanks for listening, as always.