Beyond the Closet Episode 18: Pride and Confetti (Pride Special!)

Join Nick and Sara on Beyond the Closet! In this episode Nick and Sara start off pride month with a LITERAL bang! This is an episode you won’t wanna miss! They talk about the origins and history of pride month as well as movies, tv, books and so much more! Nick even shares his coming out story!

Transcript

Intro

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Hello and welcome.

SPEAKER_04 0:00

I'm Nick.

SPEAKER_02 0:01

And I'm Sarah.

SPEAKER_04 0:02

And this is Beyond the Closet. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 0:37

Okay. Wait, can I explain? Yes. Okay. So since we don't have a book today and we're not reading anything new.

SPEAKER_04 0:47

Not at the moment.

SPEAKER_02 0:48

No. We are just going to go over, ask each other a bunch of questions, maybe go th through some history about what started Pride Month.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

Happy Pride.

SPEAKER_02 0:58

Happy Pride.

SPEAKER_04 0:59

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 0:59

And talk about some books and LGBTQ content that everything. Everything. Pretty much just have It's just a ramble sesh today. Yeah, pretty much, which I think is gonna be good.

SPEAKER_04 1:10

It's gonna be a lot of fun. Yeah. I can't wait.

SPEAKER_01 1:11

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12

Okay, so

Catch Up

SPEAKER_04 1:13

how are you doing though?

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Pretty good.

SPEAKER_04 1:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:17

Yeah. Um I got a lot of good stuff going on. Yeah. Um I'm never home, which I think Alex and Mishka are both very upset with me, but it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:30

Yeah, it's I feel like when it gets warm, once it's summer hits, it starts to get busier again.

SPEAKER_02 1:34

Yeah, well, it starts to get busier, and then I also have coworkers saying, Do you want to hang out today? And I go, Yeah, I do.

SPEAKER_04 1:40

Yeah, I do want to hang out.

SPEAKER_02 1:42

And then I tell Alex, I'm like, Alright, I'm gonna go shopping. And he's like, Okay, have fun. I left the house at 10 o'clock, 10 30, and I didn't get back until four.

SPEAKER_04 1:55

Oh my god. Jesus.

SPEAKER_02 1:59

Anywho, it's fine.

SPEAKER_04 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

We we made dinner together. We actually no, we went to Culver's.

SPEAKER_04 2:05

Good. Culver's is good.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

Yeah. He had it was a it was really fun.

SPEAKER_04 2:09

That's yeah.

SPEAKER_02 2:10

He asked me because he was like, What do you want to do for dinner? And I'm like, I don't know. And he's like, Well, do you want to go to Culver's? Because I get a free birthday scoop. But I'm like, Oh, can I get a scoop too?

SPEAKER_04 2:22

Yeah, period. You guys are like a few days apart. So yeah, might as well.

SPEAKER_02 2:26

Yeah. Although he's he's one of those people that he's very like, oh, let's go to this place so I can get the points. Like he um, like, yeah, we I go shopping at Aldi, he goes shopping at Metro Market.

SPEAKER_03 2:39

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Because he gets the points at Metro Market. And so if I tell him, like, can you go to the grocery store? He's gonna go to Metro Market, not Aldi.

SPEAKER_03 2:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:47

And I'm like, no, I'm gonna go to Aldi because it's cheaper for my bank account.

SPEAKER_04 2:51

It is cheaper, it's much cheaper. So yeah, valid.

SPEAKER_02 2:57

How are you doing?

SPEAKER_04 2:58

I'm good. Um a lot of events this past weekend for me.

SPEAKER_02 3:02

Yeah, and some upcoming events.

SPEAKER_04 3:04

Mm-hmm. Yep. We got, I think we mentioned it last episode. Yeah. You're talking about the well-read damsel thing, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:13

Yes. Well, it doesn't hurt to mention it again.

SPEAKER_04 3:16

Yeah, I will. Uh so

Well Red Damsel Pride Event

SPEAKER_04 3:19

Natasha, we saw her last week too, for we went there for after we filmed uh last week's episode, and we got a lot of books. And well, you got a lot of books.

SPEAKER_01 3:29

It was my birthday.

SPEAKER_04 3:29

It was your birthday.

SPEAKER_01 3:30

It was my birthday.

SPEAKER_04 3:32

And we she's gonna be having an event on June 13th, for those who don't know, in downtown Milwaukee at the Wisconsin Center. Um, and it's pretty much uh LGBTQ book fair. And I will have a setup there with all sorts of bookmarks that I'm gonna make.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

And is it LGBTQ focused or is it romance?

SPEAKER_04 3:53

LGBTQ.

SPEAKER_00 3:54

Okay, perfect.

SPEAKER_04 3:55

LGBTQ uh book fair, which will be really cool. And we're one of the vendors, which will be a lot of fun, and I'm gonna have a table with maybe some like bookmarks and some of our info on the pod so people can know more about it and stuff like that, which will be a lot of fun. So make sure to go check that out. It's from 10 to 3 Saturday, June 13th, at the I want to say it's called the Baird Center.

SPEAKER_02 4:17

Yeah, I think that's what it's called now.

SPEAKER_04 4:18

The Baird Center. Yeah. Yeah, so it'll be there. It'll be a lot of fun. Um, but yeah, no, this past weekend was good. A lot of events that I had to do, because you know I'm an event coordinator, so I had to do some stuff like that.

SPEAKER_01 4:28

But did you say the date and time?

SPEAKER_04 4:31

Yeah, 10 to 3, June 13th. Beautiful at the Baird Center. Um, but yeah, it was a little busy, but it's okay, we got through it. Um, but now I'm just really excited that it's Pride Month.

SPEAKER_03 4:42

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:43

And that there's a lot of cool stuff coming out. Next month we have Heartstopper, and this month we have, you know, probably tons of other content that'll probably come out at some point, which is really exciting.

SPEAKER_01 4:56

I'm really excited.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

Um, so yeah, I'm doing well. Um I've been reading the first off-campus book, which is really good. Um, I like it so far. But um, but yeah, I think we should go ahead and get started and kick off this pride special episode.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

Beautiful.

SPEAKER_04 5:14

So, guys, we have

Confetti Canons

SPEAKER_04 5:15

confetti cannons. I have never used one of these before. Um hold on. I don't know how loud it's gonna be. Okay, so we have confetti cannons for pride, and they're like rainbow color. I've never used a confetti cannon before, but obviously we gotta, you know, make sure we're not screaming too loud. Don't want people to think we're you know murdering each other. Yeah, we're we're fine. It's just it's just a confetti cannon. So I think on the counter three, I guess we can do it, but first let's figure out how to use this. So I already know. I think do you twist it like this?

SPEAKER_02 5:49

You're twisting the opposite way already. Like this?

SPEAKER_04 5:52

There you go. Okay. So let's shoot it upward, not at each other, obviously. No. Okay, are you ready? Yeah. I'm really scared. One, two, three.

SPEAKER_01 6:09

That was more fun than penny toss.

SPEAKER_03 6:19

I didn't expect it to be so funny. That was fun. That was really fun. Can we do it again? No.

unknown 6:30

That was horrible.

SPEAKER_03 6:31

Oh my god, no.

SPEAKER_04 6:33

That was really that was really fun, though. I'm glad we did that.

SPEAKER_02 6:40

Well, interesting.

SPEAKER_04 6:41

Yeah, I was just saying, yeah, we can leave it. Um stacked. That was really funny. I'm glad we did that. That was not as loud as I thought it would be, though.

SPEAKER_00 6:53

But it was really That was really good.

SPEAKER_04 6:56

That was really good.

SPEAKER_00 6:58

That was cathartic.

SPEAKER_04 6:59

That was we should do that. It was what?

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Cathartic.

SPEAKER_04 7:03

Cathartic. I don't know if I know what that means.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Oh, like therapeutic.

SPEAKER_04 7:07

Oh, yeah, 100%. I'll tell my therapist about it. Be like, listen, this was magical. Um, we should do that for like our 50th episode.

SPEAKER_03 7:15

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 7:16

Or like 30th or whatever, like 100. Dude, they're in my shoe. That was great. That was a ton of fun, and that's gonna look great on camera. That shower that was great. That was so like whoa, like gender revealed. That was great though. I loved it. Um, okay. Holy hell. It is everywhere, but it's okay. Um, so now we're gonna talk about um,

History of Pride

SPEAKER_04 7:46

I'm sure you know some of the let's talk about how pride kind of started. Do you know any of the origins behind it?

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Because I think well.

SPEAKER_04 7:53

Because I know that from what I've from what I know is that there was a kind of like a pro and correct us correct me if I'm wrong, please. Like, you know, I'm still learning some stuff.

SPEAKER_00 8:04

Did you Google this?

SPEAKER_04 8:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:06

Okay. Did you go to Wikipedia?

SPEAKER_04 8:08

No. It was just straight through Google.

SPEAKER_00 8:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:11

But from my knowledge, because you know uh about Stonewall Uprising in New York, right?

SPEAKER_02 8:18

One second.

SPEAKER_04 8:19

Okay, please hold.

SPEAKER_02 8:21

Okay. The Stonewall riots.

SPEAKER_04 8:23

Yes, that's what I I've heard about before.

SPEAKER_02 8:25

Or also known as the Stonewall Uprising, Rebellion, Revolution.

SPEAKER_04 8:28

In 1969.

SPEAKER_02 8:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 8:30

Yes, okay.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

It was a series of spontaneous riots and demonstrations against police raid that took place in the early morning of June 28th, 1969. Sorry, not to No, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 8:41

It's I, you know, I knew that already, but I felt like you'd be better at explaining it, so I kind of handed it off to you.

SPEAKER_02 8:47

Fair. At the Stonewall Inn in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Lower Manhattan in New York City, although the demonstrations were not the first time American LGBTQ fought people fought back against government-sponsored persecution of sexual minorities, the Stonewall riots marked a new beginnings, a new beginning for the gay rights movement in the United States and around the world. Um so American gays and lesbians in the 1950s and 1960s faced a legal system more anti-homosexual than those of some other Western and Eastern countries. Early homophile groups in the US sought to prove that gay people could be assimilated into society and that they favored non-confrontational education for homosexuals and heterosexuals alike. The last years of the 1960s, however, were very contentious, as many social movements were active, including the civil rights movement, the counterculture of the 1960s, and the anti-war demonstrations. These influences, along with the liberal environment of Greenwich Village, served as a catalyst for the Stonewall riots. So have you ever watched the imitation game?

SPEAKER_03 9:58

No.

SPEAKER_02 9:59

So there you go. That's another um that's a movie you should watch. So it has Benedict Cumberpatch.

SPEAKER_04 10:07

Oh, Doctor Strange.

SPEAKER_02 10:09

Yes, Doctor Strange. I know him as Sherlock Holmes.

SPEAKER_04 10:13

That's like one of Jinx's favorite actors of all time, is Benedict Cumberpatch.

SPEAKER_02 10:16

Yeah. I tried writing to him as a kid.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Did you?

SPEAKER_02 10:21

Yeah. I never got a response back.

SPEAKER_04 10:23

He's a busy guy.

SPEAKER_02 10:25

Well, yeah, he's a celebrity. He's an actor. But so point being. I'm getting annoyed.

SPEAKER_05 10:34

It was so worth it though. It stuck to your smoothie.

SPEAKER_04 10:41

Oh shit! Claire's gonna be so mad. It's okay. What is this? Anyway, continue.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

So, the imitation game. Let me see if I can get this right. Pause. The imitation game is about a man named Alan Turing.

SPEAKER_04 11:04

I think you've told me about this movie.

SPEAKER_02 11:05

Yep. So Alan Turing, uh, The Enigma.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 11:09

Is so the first one is a 1983 biography of the British mathematician Codebreaker and early computer scientist Alan Turing.

SPEAKER_03 11:18

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:18

From 1912 to 1954. Um the book covers Alan Turing's life and work. The 2014 film, the imitation game, is a loosely is loosely based on the book with dra with dramatization.

SPEAKER_03 11:31

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 11:32

So come on, give me there we go.

SPEAKER_04 11:38

Okay. I want to say Will Byers did a project on him. I'm like 90% sure that in season four you see him do his name is Alan, you said?

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:48

Yeah, he has a poster that says Alan Cheering or something on. I think he did a project on him. That's really cool, Easter egg.

SPEAKER_02 11:55

Yep. So Alan Matheson Turing, born June 23rd, 1912, died June 7th, 1954.

SPEAKER_03 12:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:06

He was an English mathematician, computer scientist, um a lot of other words that I don't know how to pronounce. Philosopher and theoretical biologist. He was highly influential in the develop in the development of the theoretical computer science, providing a formalization of the concept of algorithm and computer and comput computer? No. Computation.

SPEAKER_04 12:28

Computation. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

With the Turing machine, which can be considered a model of the general purpose computer. Turing is widely considered to be the father of theoretical computer science. So basically during World War II, he learned how to take codes that were being given through radio signals.

SPEAKER_04 12:49

Oh.

SPEAKER_02 12:50

And uh decipher them using the computer in order to figure out where they're gonna be and what they're gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 12:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 12:58

And these c this language though that they used would change every day at midnight.

SPEAKER_03 13:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:05

So the computer had to keep up with it. And really what they what the English government did is they hired a bunch of really smart people, including Alan Turing.

SPEAKER_03 13:13

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:14

And they said, figure it out. Your job is to figure it out every day, but they couldn't figure it out before it turned midnight.

SPEAKER_03 13:21

Oh no.

SPEAKER_02 13:22

And so that's when Alan Turing, he in the movie, I don't know if this is actually what happened, but he wanted to become the head person on this project.

SPEAKER_03 13:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 13:33

And so he went to the general and was like, I want to be head person because I know what I know what I can do. I I know I know what to do.

SPEAKER_04 13:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

But I need permissions from you. And he was like, No, you can't do that.

SPEAKER_04 13:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 13:47

And I don't have the authority to give that. The only person who can give the authority to do that is Winston Churchill. He wrote a letter to Winston Churchill saying that he wants to be head of this program and wants to have the budget and supplies in order to create this computer. Winston Churchill responded and said, Yeah, you're in charge now. Period. And so now he was giving orders to the to the whole people, and you know, obviously the people kind of hated him for it and was like, Well, okay, fuck you, I guess. Yeah, I don't know why we have to listen to you now, but and there's this really funny scene in the first when he first gets the letter.

SPEAKER_03 14:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:26

And the general was like, Yeah, Alan is in charge. He Alan turns to the people and goes, You, you, and you are fired. Go home.

SPEAKER_04 14:36

Period. I have to watch this now. Yeah, what's it on? Do you know? Is it on like Netflix or something?

SPEAKER_02 14:41

I don't know what it's on these days. I have a copy of it though.

SPEAKER_04 14:44

Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 14:44

Type a DVD. But so What's it called? The imitation game.

SPEAKER_04 14:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 14:50

So as much as this is the main plot of the story, there's a side plot.

SPEAKER_04 14:55

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 14:55

Alan Turing was gay.

SPEAKER_04 14:57

Yes, that I knew.

SPEAKER_02 14:58

And during this time, if you if the government found out you were gay, and granted this is in England, not in America, so big difference there. But what they would do is they would put you through a program and put you on several different types of medication in order to make you straight.

SPEAKER_04 15:18

So conversion therapy.

SPEAKER_02 15:19

Conversion therapy.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

Which doesn't work.

SPEAKER_02 15:22

It does not work. And that is why he died so young.

SPEAKER_04 15:25

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_02 15:26

Yeah. Because these medications were making him so sick. Jesus. Yeah. But he did actually, I don't know if he got married or not, but he did have a wife who knew or a girlfriend or a fiance who is played by Elizabeth from Pirates of the Caribbean.

SPEAKER_04 15:45

Oh, yeah. I can't I can't remember the actress's name, but I know who you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 15:48

Yes. And so she knew of what he was, and she was like, Well, you and I could get married and live our own lives. And then they were engaged for a while. And then once the project was over, you know, he they both went their separate ways. And he went into conversion therapy because he was either that or I think it was either that or serve in the army. And he didn't want to serve in the army because he wasn't he's a mathematician. He's autistic.

SPEAKER_04 16:19

He didn't want to do that.

SPEAKER_02 16:21

Yeah. And so he was like, all right, conversion therapy. And yeah. And she eventually did find a husband, had a couple kids. So you know, good for her. But yeah. So the movie is very, very sad, very upsetting.

SPEAKER_03 16:34

But yeah.

SPEAKER_02 16:36

So I'm guessing the Stonewall riots were about trying to stop that. Trying to stop conversion therapy. Conversion therapy.

SPEAKER_04 16:44

Which people are still trying to stop. I feel like I feel like nowadays are they still a thing?

SPEAKER_02 16:50

I don't think it is.

SPEAKER_04 16:51

I have no idea.

SPEAKER_02 16:54

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 16:55

I don't know if they're still a thing. If they are, that's horrible.

SPEAKER_02 16:58

It might be in some for certain countries. Oh, conversion therapy is effectively illegal for licensed mental health professionals in Wisconsin, though it remains a subject of ongoing legal and political battles.

SPEAKER_04 17:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 17:15

So in Wisconsin it's illegal.

SPEAKER_04 17:17

You can't do it here.

SPEAKER_02 17:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:18

That's good. That's still you shouldn't be able to do it anywhere.

SPEAKER_02 17:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:22

Because that's quite literally one of the main definitions of homophobia.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:28

Yeah. Dang, that's wild. Yeah, I'll have to give that a watch. Um but yeah, pride, it's such a good month to celebrate and be who you are, no matter what. Um whether it's gay, bi, lesbian, trans, you know, pansexual, asexual. Take it. Take it all in, be yourself.

SPEAKER_02 17:48

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 17:49

You know, no matter what.

SPEAKER_02 17:50

Everything except for the bad stuff.

SPEAKER_04 17:52

Just don't, don't be in it, just you know, be you.

unknown 17:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:56

Be you. Be proud of who you are. Be you, be proud of who you are, and be nice. That's all we all gotta do.

SPEAKER_02 18:02

Be nice and be respectful.

SPEAKER_04 18:03

Mm-hmm. Exactly. And we're all happy now. So it's okay.

SPEAKER_02 18:06

Um is there anything else that you wanted to touch on for the Stonewall riots?

SPEAKER_04 18:11

I don't think so.

SPEAKER_01 18:12

Um I I love Wikipedia.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

I was gonna talk about um a new

Movies and TV Shows

SPEAKER_04 18:20

show that I started.

SPEAKER_01 18:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:22

Called Overcompensating.

SPEAKER_01 18:23

Mmm, yes, okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:25

And it's really good. The guy the main character actually like wro wrote and directed the show too. It's on uh Amazon Prime. I think you should watch it. It's really funny. It's like about a college kid who's clearly closeted but is like trying to like, you know, he's scared, you know, and that's normal. And it's one of those types of stories, but it's freaking hilarious. It is so funny. Claire and I watched it within like maybe like two days. And there's like eight or nine episodes, and we loved it.

SPEAKER_00 18:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 18:53

Um, I think you should give it a watch. I'm trying to watch a lot of LGBTQ content right now.

SPEAKER_00 18:58

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 18:59

Um, or you know, just because like I feel like I've been reading a lot, and that's fine, but like, you know, I want to watch some stuff for sure.

SPEAKER_03 19:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 19:06

Um, but yeah, I'm trying to watch something like maybe like not every day, but like maybe like every few days, something new that I haven't seen. Like I've seen Love Simon, but I haven't seen Love Victor.

SPEAKER_02 19:19

Fair. I kind of thought that Love Victor was just kind of a I think it's a spin-off. Like a Walmart version.

SPEAKER_04 19:26

Is it?

SPEAKER_02 19:26

I don't know. I have no idea. I always thought that's I'm I mean, maybe I'm completely totally fucking wrong.

SPEAKER_04 19:31

Yeah, I have no idea. I I know it's a show though.

SPEAKER_02 19:35

Oh, it is a show. Okay. Because I I liked Love Simon, that was a good one. But what really frustrated me is that he didn't just talk to his friends, and so that bothered me.

SPEAKER_04 19:46

But Sarah, that's the realism of it.

SPEAKER_02 19:48

I know, but it sounded like his friends were really positive about everything. And so it was like, if you know that your friends are gonna be really positive and supportive and they love you, then it's still scary.

SPEAKER_04 20:00

It's still scary just saying those words at that age. Trust me.

SPEAKER_02 20:04

I guess. Oh, but the other funny part is Funny fart. Punny fart. Punny fart. The other funny part was that um Panic at the Disco is referenced.

SPEAKER_04 20:15

Where?

SPEAKER_02 20:16

In Love Simon. Is it? Okay. Because he has a poster of Brendan Erie above his bed.

SPEAKER_04 20:20

Oh my god, perfect.

SPEAKER_02 20:21

And he says that Brendan Eri is his like celebrity crush.

SPEAKER_04 20:24

Perfect.

SPEAKER_02 20:25

Which, yeah, makes total sense.

SPEAKER_04 20:27

I love that for him.

SPEAKER_02 20:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 20:28

And he's played by Nick Robinson, which is also a really good actor. He was in He was in Jurassic World. The like first Jurassic World with Chris Pratt and uh Bryce Dallas Howard. But yeah, I I want to watch more stuff that I haven't seen yet. I've seen Brokeback Mountain, I've seen Heartstopper, I've seen Red White and Royal Blue. However, I do want to re-watch Red White and Royal Blue soon because I haven't seen it in a while.

SPEAKER_02 20:54

I can quote that movie word for word, so I'm good.

SPEAKER_04 20:58

Um Heartstopper, I want to rewatch before the new movie comes out. Um I just watched rewatch Trivalry for the one millionth time? Fourth, I think.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

Fourth time?

SPEAKER_02 21:10

Really, that's it?

SPEAKER_04 21:11

Yeah, I like to savor stuff sometimes and just like re-watch it and like at a certain time. I promise I'm not lying to you. Anyway.

SPEAKER_02 21:23

I'm sad that you're lying. I'm just like, I don't savor things like at all.

SPEAKER_04 21:28

No, I I'm aware. You read the rest of the long game without me.

SPEAKER_02 21:32

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Anyways. Um, but yeah, I'm trying to watch more stuff that I haven't seen yet. Because I've seen most, I feel like I've seen most stuff, but I feel like there's stuff that I'm missing that I wanna watch.

SPEAKER_02 21:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:46

Um, but yeah, what about you? What are you trying to explore?

SPEAKER_02 21:49

So, obviously trying to find more lesbian stuff.

SPEAKER_04 21:52

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 21:53

Um, so let me tell you about three movies.

SPEAKER_04 21:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 21:57

So the first one is uh Elisia. Marcella.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Yep, we've talked. This is like our 40th time talking about this.

SPEAKER_02 22:03

We talked about it on the podcast before.

SPEAKER_04 22:05

The first episode.

SPEAKER_02 22:06

Okay, well, we're gonna bring it back up again.

SPEAKER_04 22:08

We should just watch it.

SPEAKER_02 22:10

Yes, we should.

SPEAKER_04 22:10

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_02 22:11

If we ever get a chance to hang out.

SPEAKER_04 22:13

Maybe on Monday.

SPEAKER_02 22:15

Yeah. So, um okay, Alicia Marcella is a student-teacher relationship based on a true story. And this has taken place in Spain during like the 1800s or something, right? I think so. Yeah, like 1890s or something.

SPEAKER_04 22:35

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 22:36

And so, or it could be 1910s. I don't know. It's during that time period.

SPEAKER_04 22:41

It's a long time ago.

SPEAKER_02 22:42

Yeah. So they are a lesbian couple. And, you know, they just want to have a life together. And they everywhere they go, you know, they kind of get found out and they're like, okay, well, we have to move. So then they move again and they move to this town where one of them, I think it's Marcella, that actually dresses up as a man.

SPEAKER_03 23:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:08

And tells everybody, like, no, I'm I'm a man. This is my wife. We are married. And, you know, whatever. But everybody's like, no, I think you're a girl.

SPEAKER_04 23:20

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 23:21

And then they're like, no, let's prove it. And so uh Elisa gets pregnant by another man and is like, no, this is our child. See, she's pregnant. And they still don't believe this. Oh my god.

SPEAKER_04 23:34

And so stressful.

SPEAKER_02 23:35

Yeah. And so by the end of the movie, um, I think they have to send away their kid or they have to separate themselves because they can't live a life together.

SPEAKER_04 23:44

Fucking A.

SPEAKER_02 23:46

But so the story is written by their daughter.

SPEAKER_04 23:50

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 23:51

And so um she comes back and finds her parents and then lives with them, and that's the end of the movie. But it's it's a cute movie, and they go through a lot of struggles, but it's definitely a biography about these two women who just wanted to be together.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

And so it's really cute. And I remember I watched that in it's gotta be like middle school.

SPEAKER_03 24:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:16

I remember watching it in the back of my parents' car when we're driving up north to go camping. And um, and it's completely Spanish.

SPEAKER_04 24:25

Yeah, I was gonna say, I I think you said that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah, but it's worth a watch.

SPEAKER_04 24:30

Oh, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_02 24:31

And then um, so film and Louise. It's not sapphic, but because it's two women being emotionally connected by a bond or by friendship, then you know, some people might see it as a sapphic film. And it's definitely referenced in Supernatural.

SPEAKER_03 24:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 24:56

And so that one is really cute, and I cannot say any more if you haven't watched it, because you just need to watch it in order to figure out the plan.

SPEAKER_04 25:04

Maybe I'll watch it today. Or do you want me to wait for you?

SPEAKER_02 25:07

I think you should wait for me, but also you can do whatever you want.

SPEAKER_04 25:12

Now you're savoring things.

SPEAKER_02 25:15

No, not really. Well it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 25:18

Yeah, I'll wait for you.

SPEAKER_02 25:19

Okay. You can do whatever you want. You can watch it tonight if you want. I don't I don't care. But that one is two best friends go on a road trip and one of them is escaping from an abusive husband.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Wait, what are we talking about?

SPEAKER_02 25:36

Thelman Louise.

SPEAKER_04 25:38

The what?

SPEAKER_02 25:39

Thelma and Louise.

SPEAKER_04 25:41

Oh, I thought we were still talking about the other movie.

SPEAKER_02 25:45

No.

SPEAKER_04 25:46

I'm so sorry. Continue.

SPEAKER_02 25:49

It's okay. You're losing track of the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 25:51

No, I'm not. I generally thought you were talking about the same movie because you said you can watch it. And I was like, oh, okay, cool. And then I thought we moved on.

SPEAKER_02 25:58

I thought you were talking about Thelma Louise. No, I thought we were talking about Are you do you want to watch Lisa Marcella tonight?

SPEAKER_04 26:04

That's what I was asking about, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:06

Oh, yeah, go ahead and watch it. Yeah, please.

SPEAKER_04 26:08

Okay, cool. That's the one I was talking about. I'm sorry. I think the communication, the conversation just combined in the one by my brain is just dumb and combined in the one by accident. So I'm sorry.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

It's okay.

SPEAKER_04 26:22

It's outside.

SPEAKER_02 26:23

So uh Selma and Louise. We're on this movie now.

SPEAKER_03 26:27

Yeah, I'm aware.

SPEAKER_02 26:29

So they are yeah, two best friends who go on a road trip, and one of them is escaping an abusive husband.

SPEAKER_04 26:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:39

So that's the main plot point.

SPEAKER_04 26:41

Okay, good to know.

SPEAKER_02 26:42

Um, taking place in, I think, New Mexico.

SPEAKER_04 26:46

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 26:47

Or Arizona. It's taking place in the south. It's very good. Very cute movie. Very interesting. So that one is a good one. That one I want you to wait for me to watch it with you.

SPEAKER_03 26:59

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 27:00

Um and then the last one. Fried Green Tomatoes.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 27:11

Which might be our next book.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

That might be our next book. Keep it.

SPEAKER_02 27:14

Because I can't stop thinking about it. I know.

SPEAKER_04 27:16

And I you know what's funny is I can't either. I know nothing about it, but I'm like, I just want to read a lesbian story.

SPEAKER_02 27:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 27:23

And I think that'd be a great first one to read.

SPEAKER_02 27:25

Yep. And what I what I read on Google is that the book is more sapphic.

SPEAKER_04 27:29

Yeah, you said the movie's a little different.

SPEAKER_02 27:31

Yeah, the movie's less so.

SPEAKER_04 27:32

We'll still watch the movie.

SPEAKER_02 27:34

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 27:35

Actually, I'd wanna, I wanna. I won't watch the movie first, but I almost want to, just so I know who to picture, but I won't. I'll wait.

SPEAKER_00 27:42

I'd read the book first.

SPEAKER_04 27:43

Yeah, I won't. We'll have to find it. We'll have to see where we can find it. I think that should be our next read. Period.

unknown 27:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 27:50

We'll order that. And then after that, we can do some other books. I think we should read Cleat Cute after that. Or one another some kind of, you know, I want to do some more lesbian stories for sure. Yeah. Or could you just go back and forth.

SPEAKER_02 28:02

Well, because to be fair, you got to pick a whole series.

SPEAKER_04 28:05

Exactly.

SPEAKER_02 28:06

So I would like to have at least four or five.

SPEAKER_04 28:09

Exactly, exactly. That's why I was like, girlfriend, what should we read next? And then we can kind of go back and forth after that. Yep. Yeah, that works for me for sure. Um, but you do have one book that MM

The Song of Achilles

SPEAKER_04 28:21

romance that you're like obsessed with that I know you've been wanting to talk about for like ten minutes now.

SPEAKER_02 28:25

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 28:26

Everyone, most people know about this book, I feel like.

SPEAKER_02 28:30

Everybody knows about this book, and if you don't, you live under a rock.

SPEAKER_04 28:33

Quiet literally. I I lived under a rock for a little bit. You did. I did. I had no idea what it was.

SPEAKER_02 28:38

And I swear to God, when I bought you this book, I told you it was gay.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

No, you didn't!

SPEAKER_02 28:43

Yes, I did.

SPEAKER_04 28:45

Because we replay the clip from episode one or two or whenever it was. Replay the clip. I think it was episode two. Replay the clip. Um, but we were you guys were at Barnes and Noble or something. Yep. And you brought me a book home, and you were like, I just think you'd like this book. And I was just like, oh, I mean, like, I don't know much about like you know, The Iliad and the Odyssey. Yeah, I don't know anything. And you're like, I can walk you through it. I was like, okay, cool. And I was like, should we just read it together? Should we just do like a little book club?

SPEAKER_05 29:10

And then we started doing that, but then like I I have no idea this book was good. Let me clarify. I have no idea. So I'm reading before I get up for eight like 6 30 shift the next day. I'm like, I'm trying to fall asleep. Reading helps me fall asleep in a good way, you know, because like reading is not looking at point. I'm trying to read, and then I'm like, and I went. I took the start and stuff, and I was like, you didn't know that. I went, no, I thought you told me anything. I was just like, I thought this was just a book about like nights and shit. Like, I didn't know, I didn't know anything. So I was just like, that's why she bought me this. And I was just like, I love her for this. So I loved it. And you and I did a book club every week.

SPEAKER_02 30:02

Yeah, we were we were very committed. I don't remember I don't remember you telling me that. Yes, I did when I bought you this book because we were talking about Red, White, Moral, Blue, and then I said, hey, since we're reading that book, you might like this one.

SPEAKER_05 30:15

That doesn't mean it's oh, so you implied it.

SPEAKER_04 30:18

Oh god, you implied it, but you didn't say the words it's gay.

SPEAKER_02 30:23

No, I didn't.

SPEAKER_05 30:24

But it's like nights and shit.

SPEAKER_04 30:35

Hey, listen, listen. I read it and I loved it. That's what matters.

SPEAKER_02 30:40

You need to read it again. I do that. So you can fully immerse yourself. Okay, let me just say I don't I have lost count as to how many times I have read this book.

SPEAKER_04 30:52

Right here.

SPEAKER_02 30:54

Okay, yeah. This is my copy that just feel yours versus mine.

SPEAKER_04 31:02

Yeah. Mine's, I mean, I think the material is different. You should get that like bougie copy from like Target.

SPEAKER_02 31:10

No, I don't need it.

SPEAKER_04 31:11

Come on.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

Okay, here's my opinion on bougie books. Right?

SPEAKER_04 31:15

I thought you were ignoring what I said. I thought you were just gonna go deep dive into this. I was like, okay, I guess I guess I'll just go by myself.

SPEAKER_02 31:23

No. Here's my opinion about the bougie books. You don't need them unless they're gonna sit on your shelf and become a piece of art. You're never gonna read it. You're never gonna break it open or break the spine because you don't want to hurt it, and you never want to bend or write on the pages because it's too nice.

SPEAKER_03 31:40

So what is the point?

SPEAKER_02 31:41

Decor. No, I'm sorry, but that is maximalism. I am a minimalist. But there's new heated robbery ones that look really pretty. I don't care. I don't want them. I do. Okay, you can have I'm not judging you. I'm just saying that I personally will not go out of my way to get them. And if I get them as a gift, great. But I would rather just have a paperback version of the book.

SPEAKER_04 32:04

That's valid.

SPEAKER_02 32:05

Still the same words, and the words are what is meaningful to me.

SPEAKER_04 32:08

I feel like hardcovers are bigger books because the words are separated though, throughout pages, because there's less space. No?

SPEAKER_02 32:14

No.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

Continue. Sorry.

SPEAKER_02 32:16

It's I'm sorry, 30 bucks versus 15.

SPEAKER_04 32:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 32:20

It's not worth it.

SPEAKER_04 32:21

No, I meant like that's not what I was saying.

SPEAKER_02 32:22

No, I know what you're saying. Okay. I'm just saying that I will still, no matter what the difference is, if the if they're if the words are bigger and the spaces between the lines are bigger, I still don't care. I'm not gonna get a hard book.

SPEAKER_04 32:35

Hardcover book. Okay. That's your choice.

SPEAKER_02 32:38

I'm sorry, but I'm also I was raised on the little tiny books that I get from Piggly Wiggly. Those are the books that I was raised on.

unknown 32:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:50

Those are the ones that my parents would say, All right, do you want to go look in the book section at Piggly Wiggly? Because they couldn't afford to take me to a bookstore.

SPEAKER_03 32:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:57

And so I actually I got books from Piggly Wiggly and Pick and Save, and I picked those ones out and I read those.

SPEAKER_04 33:04

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:04

Those are the books I grew up reading.

SPEAKER_04 33:06

Anyway, Song of Achilles.

SPEAKER_02 33:08

Song of Achilles. I have lost count as to how many times I've read this book. I'm surprised that I don't have more lines highlighted.

SPEAKER_04 33:15

We should call this episode Achilles and Patroculus.

SPEAKER_02 33:18

That'd be cute, but that's not all we're talking about, though.

SPEAKER_04 33:21

So it's not all we talked about when we talked about these. There was an episode called Troy and Harris, and we probably brought up Shane and Illy like five times.

SPEAKER_02 33:28

Well, it's still within the series, though. We're talking about history. I would just I would call it something different.

SPEAKER_04 33:34

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:35

Sorry, it's okay.

SPEAKER_04 33:37

I love you too. Continue. Okay, Sarah's gonna rant about this for a second. I just have to go grab my water. I will be right back. You keep doing what you I want you to just ramble.

SPEAKER_00 33:46

Just ramble?

SPEAKER_04 33:47

Just ramble, because I know you want to ramble about this. Okay. And I know a lot about it, and I will listen while I get my water.

SPEAKER_02 33:53

Okay, the song of Achilles. So it starts out when they're kids, and Patroclus and Achilles, and they first meet, don't really meet, but like he sees him at a council of kings. And this is when Patroclus looks at Achilles and is like, oh, a golden-haired boy. He's he's kind of pretty with his golden hair, and you know, wow, he looks really strong, and all this kind of stuff. Now we knew that Patroclus was different, and so is his mother. So, is your microphone off?

SPEAKER_04 34:24

No, but it's okay. I'm being really quiet.

SPEAKER_02 34:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 34:28

Guys, I'm just getting water. It's okay.

SPEAKER_02 34:31

He's letting me ramble on on camera.

SPEAKER_04 34:34

I just thought you'd like that.

SPEAKER_02 34:36

It's fun. Okay, so, anyways, fast forward. Patroclus ends up playing marbles with a boy, but then the boy starts kind of bullying him, and so he pushes the boy, but the boy trips on a rock and cracks his skull open.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

I remember that part so well.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:54

So well. It's like right at the beginning.

SPEAKER_02 34:57

Yep. And there is so then his dad, his the king, was like, Well, I can't have you, I I disown you. And so Patroclus gets sold to the um So dramatic. Yep.

SPEAKER_04 35:16

So dramatic, honestly.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

So his dad sells him off to uh Achilles' kingdom. So, and where he becomes a boy servant. Achilles is able to find a best friend and picks one out from the boys. He picks Patroclus. When they eventually start training together, they work together, they live together, they sleep in the same room.

SPEAKER_03 35:42

Oh, yeah, they sleep in the same room.

SPEAKER_02 35:44

Yep. Sorry. It's okay. It's true. It is true. Um, but you know what is what is different about this book is it's not like heated rivalry.

SPEAKER_03 35:56

No. Not at all.

SPEAKER_02 35:57

Not at all. This is very like they never say the word sex, they never say the word gay.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Or cock.

SPEAKER_02 36:05

Or cock or anything like that.

SPEAKER_04 36:07

They don't it's described, it's written so well.

SPEAKER_02 36:10

It's written remarkably well by Madeline Miller.

SPEAKER_04 36:13

And you can understand it too.

SPEAKER_02 36:15

Yes. And she writes fantastic books, and she needs to be writing more. I think her next one was gonna be about Persephone, but I can't remember.

SPEAKER_03 36:24

Madeline Miller.

SPEAKER_02 36:26

I can't remember. So she wrote them as the term what you would describe as lovers. Quite literally, in a very romantical term of lovers. Where, you know, they are committed to each other, they love each other, and they show that through their friendship, through their bond, through their inseparable, inseparable bond.

SPEAKER_04 36:54

And even Odysseus is like, yeah, don't we will be talking about the Odyssey as that gets closer, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 37:02

Oh yes. And even Odysseus recognizes it and is like Isn't this?

SPEAKER_04 37:08

I'm sorry to cut you off, but isn't this like a prequel kind of to the Odyssey?

SPEAKER_02 37:12

Or is like it's that's it's just another ver it's just another person's perspective.

SPEAKER_04 37:18

Okay, so it's connected to the Odyssey. So is it canon?

SPEAKER_02 37:25

Okay. So when Homer wrote The Iliad and the Odyssey, the Iliad is about the Trojan War. And then The Odyssey is a separate book. That is about Odysseus's journey home. This is before Odysseus's journey home. Odysseus, if you want to read more about Odysseus' journey home, you can read Circe by Madeline Miller.

SPEAKER_04 37:48

Oh, that's what that's about? The thing that I thought was called Circle.

unknown 37:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Okay. Let me explain.

SPEAKER_04 37:54

I'm just gonna stop talking.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Yes, thank you. Love you, but thank you. So the Iliad is about the Trojan War, which that is historically accurate. That was an actual war that happened. Odysseus, and just like Odysseus and Achilles, they were just, they're like Superman and Batman. Just made-up heroes together. They're not real. They're not real, they're just made-up heroes, legends for people to have hope. That's exactly what those what these stories were written for. So they Odysseus the Odyssey is then about Odysseus coming home. Now, Odysseus fights, you know, tooth and nail to get home. He's sailing across the sea with you know 200 plus men and ends up with like returning home with 20. And he fights a one-eyed giant, he fights a surf a serpent, he fights and you know, in the Odyssey, you'll read about him being captured by Circe. Cersei is a witch that lives on on an island, his boats get shipwrecked on the island, and he she turns his men into pigs. However, Madeline Miller, who has a PhD, I'm pretty sure I think it said that. A BA and an MA. Okay, not a PhD.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

From Brown.

SPEAKER_02 39:20

From Brown University in Latin and H and Greek. So she has taught in both languages. She was also studied at the Yale School of Drama, specializing in adapting classical tales to modern audience. So she is extremely smart in this subject. She there have been interviews where she has said that she has been, she was raised on these stories, she lived, it's in her blood. So when she wrote Cersei, she wanted to write about her time, her life, through Cersei's eyes. Because everybody, you know, wants to fight for the hero and everything when we never really get the perspective from the villain. What makes them a villain? What turned them angry? Well, in the book Cersei, the reason why she turned her men into pigs is because Odysseus's men wanted to rape her, and she had magical powers, so she said, No, fuck you, I'm turning you into pigs, because that's what you are. You're a bunch of pigs. And then what happened from her perspective is she and Odysseus fell in love and she was pregnant with his child. And so when he is leaving, she says the line. Now I'm sorry if I butcher it, but she says the line, will I be will I be like Achilles running up and down the beaches wailing for or just wailing for Patroclus' name? And then the famous TikTok sound, it flows into the quote from here of he is half of my soul. I would know him from I can recognize him by touch alone, by smell. I would know him blind, by the way his breaths came and his feet struck the earth. I would know him in death and at the end of the world.

SPEAKER_04 41:19

I remember you quoting that in one of our previous episodes.

SPEAKER_02 41:23

Such beautiful, beautiful, beautiful writing.

SPEAKER_04 41:26

Yeah, she's she's a really good author.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

And so this book's this book then goes through them training, becoming adults, and eventually sorry, no, keep going. And then eventually going into the Trojan War. Where Patroclus dies first, and then Achilles.

SPEAKER_04 41:44

Spoilers.

SPEAKER_02 41:46

It's not really spoilers. It's there have been several movies made on this plot line, and if you don't know it already, then you're living under a rock.

SPEAKER_04 41:56

So I'm just saying if someone knows nothing about it and they want to read it. Like me. It's kind of I knew nothing about this. Like I said, I didn't know it was gay. I thought it was just about like knights at war, and that's why I was like, I don't know if I'm gonna like this, and then I was like, oh my god, they're they're shocking. And that was like, hell yeah, we're reading this.

SPEAKER_01 42:13

Fair enough.

SPEAKER_02 42:15

So then, you know, there is this interesting part in the end of the book, which I don't know of our of how many of our viewers actually watch Outlander, but in Outlander, if you haven't finished it already, don't watch this episode and skip through this next part. But the very ending scene when in the last episode, when Jamie dies, Claire is holding her body holding his body, and she's there. She's pretty much laying next to his body for like a two whole days straight. Doesn't eat, sleeps, doesn't drink water, doesn't leave, does not leave his body. Achilles, after Patroclus dies, Achilles takes Patroclus' body, brings him into his tent, and continues to sleep next to him, next to his dead body because he doesn't want to let go of him yet. And then eventually they Achilles dies because he gets shot in the ankle, and um then Odysseus knows that respects their last will and knows that they wanted to pour their ashes together in the same urn. That was their wish. And then but earlier in this book, Achilles has a son that he completely abandoned.

SPEAKER_04 43:46

I forgot about that.

SPEAKER_02 43:48

Yeah, everybody forgets about it. He has a son.

SPEAKER_04 43:50

I totally forgot about that. Yeah, he's a child, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 43:54

Because his mom tried to sell him over to another kingdom in order to get married to a woman, and then have A child.

SPEAKER_04 44:01

Oh my god, I forgot about that whole part. Holy shit. What was her name again? The one woman he like married or was supposed to be with? Was it like Brysel? No.

SPEAKER_02 44:17

No, Brisalis. Brisalis is Thetis. No, Thetis is his mom.

SPEAKER_04 44:22

Thetis is his mom. Okay. Sorry, I haven't read it in a while. It's not Athena.

SPEAKER_02 44:26

It's not Athena. No. Athena is a god.

SPEAKER_04 44:28

Yeah. Um I don't remember her name. But I remember that. Um her name, the but the that one pronunciation, I did that right, right? It's Thetis. That's how you say that? Yeah. Okay, cool.

SPEAKER_02 44:41

So Briseilus is or Briseus is a um female slave that they end up winning because they take over a portion of land.

SPEAKER_04 44:53

That I remember too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:54

And then that was one of the first ones, and Patroclus was like, um, we can't let this happen. And so he looks over at Achilles and is like, we'll buyer.

SPEAKER_03 45:03

Mm-hmm. Super structure.

SPEAKER_02 45:06

And so um it's literally every time I pick up my cup.

SPEAKER_04 45:13

It's yeah, it's the condensation.

SPEAKER_00 45:19

Technical difficulties.

SPEAKER_01 45:20

Hang on, you guys. Oh God.

SPEAKER_02 45:41

So, anyways.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Anyways.

SPEAKER_02 45:44

Then um, at the very ending of the book, there's beautiful because his son comes back and says, No, a lesser man cannot be mar cannot be um cannot put his ashes neck uh in with my father. My father is a king, my father is amazing, you know, the strong warrior, how how can why would he want um a servant, his servant to be buried with him? So Odysseus is like, no, d well, we already mixed the ashes together, so there's no taking it back. Well, so when they bury the ashes and they put up a gravestone, it only says Achilles. Now, this is where we cut to, and she he is sitting on his Patroclus' ghost is sitting on Achilles' grave because he cannot enter the underworld. So he's stuck on on this land on this earth until his name gets written on the stone. And so and Theodus is sitting next to him and um she they're talking about his life, they're talking about their lives, and she says, her mouth tightens, have you no more memories? Patroclus speaks, I am made of memories, and she goes, speak them. And that's when you realize that this whole book is told as a memory from Patroclus' point of view. This whole book is about him telling Thetis their life.

SPEAKER_03 47:52

Yep.

SPEAKER_02 47:53

Which is really cool. And then I almost refuse, but the ache of him is stronger than my anger. I want to speak for of something not dead or divine, I want him to live. At first it is strange. I am used to keeping him from her, to hoarding him for myself. But these memories well up like spring water faster than I can hold them back. They do not come as words, but like dreams, rising as a scent from the weight from the rain wet earth. This I say, this and this the way his hair looked in summer sun, his face when he ran, his eyes solemn as an owl at lessons, this and this and this, so many memories of happiness crowding forward. She closes her eyes and the skin over them is the color of sand and winter. She listens and she too remembers. And then fast forward Why do you not go to him? I cannot. The pain in her voice is something tearing. I cannot go beneath the earth, the underworld with his cavernous gloom and fluttering souls where the dead may walk, where only the dead may walk. This is all I have left. This is all that is left, she says, her eyes still fixed on the monument, an eternity of stone. I conjure the boy I knew, Achilles, grinning at the fig's blur in his hands, his green eyes laughing into mine. Catch, he says, Achilles outlined against the sky, hanging from a branch over the river, the thick warmth of his sleepy breath against my ear. If you have to go, I will go with you. My ear is forgotten in the gold harbour harbour of his arms. The memories come and come. She listens, staring into the grain of the stone. Where we all we are all there, goddess and mortal and the boy who is both. Yeah, I'll just finish reading this. The sun is setting over the sea, spilling its colours on the water's surface. She is behind beside me, silent as the blurry creeping dusk. Her face is as unmarked on as the first day I saw her. Her arms are crossed over her chest as if to hold some thought of herself. She I have told her all. I have spared nothing, any of us. We watched the light sink into the grave of the western sky. I could not make him a god, she says, her jagged voice rich with grief. But you made him She does not answer me for a long time, only sits, eyes shining with the last of the daylight with the last of the dying light. I have done it, she says. At first I do not understand, but then I see the tomb, and the mark she has made on the stone. Achilles, it reads, and besides it, Patroclus. Go, she says, he waits for you. And in the darkness, two shadows reaching through the hopeless, heavy dusk, their hands meet, and light spills in a flood like a hundred golden urns pouring out of the sun.

SPEAKER_04 50:51

Vomiting.

unknown 50:52

Yep. Yep, pretty much.

SPEAKER_04 50:54

That I remember too, very well. Ugh, such a good book.

SPEAKER_02 50:59

It's definitely one of my favorites, and it's why I have a tattoo.

SPEAKER_04 51:02

They need to make a um series of some kind.

SPEAKER_02 51:05

TV series.

SPEAKER_04 51:06

TV series specifically. I don't think it would do well as a movie.

SPEAKER_02 51:08

If it was a movie, it would be three hours long.

SPEAKER_04 51:10

Mm-hmm. You need to make it a sh it needs to be a show from like HBO or something. That would be awesome. Um, okay, there we go.

unknown 51:23

There we go.

SPEAKER_03 51:25

Oi, how's this movie?

SPEAKER_04 51:41

Jesus Christ.

SPEAKER_01 51:43

Very delicious.

SPEAKER_04 51:45

Yeah. I would assume so.

SPEAKER_01 51:48

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

Yeah, good book. Yeah. There's definitely more um that I want to read though.

SPEAKER_03 52:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 52:00

Like Fried Green Tomatoes, um, Cleat Cute. Boyfriend material looks really good. That's the one that's supposed to be a show soon.

SPEAKER_01 52:10

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 52:10

So is Cleat Cute. Cleat Cute's gonna be a show as well. So we'll have to look into that.

SPEAKER_01 52:14

You know what book I want you to read?

SPEAKER_04 52:16

Hmm.

unknown 52:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Destial fans out there are gonna laugh at this. I want you to read Twist and Shout.

SPEAKER_04 52:22

Twist and Shout, okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:23

Because then I think you're gonna understand a lot more about me if you read it.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

Okay. Is it just like a book or is it a fanfic or is it It's a fanfic. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:32

It's a Destial fanfic.

SPEAKER_04 52:34

But I don't know anything about Supernatural.

SPEAKER_02 52:35

You don't need to. You don't need to know anything in order to read this.

SPEAKER_04 52:38

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:39

That's what I tell everybody. Is that it is if you separate it from Supernatural, it is just a really good book.

SPEAKER_03 52:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 52:47

Because they're basically taking the names of Dean and Castile and the names from the rest of the series and putting it using the same names to create characters that are set in the 1960s.

SPEAKER_04 53:03

What the fuck's it called?

SPEAKER_02 53:04

Twist and shout.

SPEAKER_04 53:05

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 53:10

What the f and I have to send you the link because if you go on to archive of our own, you're not gonna be able to find it.

SPEAKER_04 53:17

Oh no. Twist and shout. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:26

I'm just gonna send you the link right now.

SPEAKER_05 53:29

Is it Castillo? Is that his name?

SPEAKER_04 53:37

I know Clarison's supernatural. I just I haven't.

SPEAKER_01 53:40

You don't need to watch Supernatural in order to understand this.

SPEAKER_04 53:44

Okay. Okay, send me that link. Um, is there anything else we want to talk about?

SPEAKER_02 53:52

Um what was your first have have we talked about um what was your first

First LGBTQ content we watched

SPEAKER_02 54:01

um like exposure like or piece of fiction that you ingested that was LGBTQ? Yeah, his mind was Destion.

SPEAKER_04 54:25

I wanna say, like I'm sure there's been stuff before this, but I think the one that really got me into it and made me like deep dive into all of it was Heartstopper. Fair I think it was Heartstopper, and then after that, I think it was um what year did that come out? Heartstopper? I want to say 2021.

SPEAKER_01 54:47

Damn, you're late in the game.

SPEAKER_04 54:49

I know I can tell you who my awakening was. If you want to know that.

SPEAKER_01 54:54

Does the camera want to know?

SPEAKER_04 54:56

I don't know. I've met him.

SPEAKER_02 54:59

Oh god, that's another one good.

SPEAKER_04 55:01

Huh?

SPEAKER_02 55:02

I just there's another one called 91 Whiskey.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

Also very good. I've met my awakening.

SPEAKER_02 55:08

Yes, I know you told me about that.

SPEAKER_04 55:20

Woo! Yeah, no, I I think it was Heartstopper that I got onto. Um, because I'd still lived downtown. And I was like, a lot of people are talking about this. I was like, I wonder what this is. And I was just like, oh, is that too much to ask for? Apparently. So yeah, that's what got me into it. Um, and then I found Red, White, War, Blue, and then He Ravery just kind of like took over my our entire life.

SPEAKER_01 55:48

You're so funny.

SPEAKER_04 55:49

It's true, yeah. And it still kind of is, yeah. And I have no shame in that whatsoever. Literally none. Um why should you? No, I don't.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Exactly.

SPEAKER_04 56:03

Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 56:04

Um, but I do think it's really funny that well, okay.

SPEAKER_03 56:10

Oh god.

SPEAKER_01 56:11

You were closeted, so I was she said, well no, I I can tell you my coming out story if you want. No, no, it's okay. Because I think you've already, haven't you?

SPEAKER_02 56:29

Oh, okay, go for it. I'm I have to wait for my PDF to that long.

Nick's Coming Out Story

SPEAKER_04 56:36

So I don't know if I don't know if I've told my exact like coming out story.

SPEAKER_01 56:40

Okay. But I might have like didn't you don't have her text?

SPEAKER_03 56:47

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 56:50

Okay, so listen. Listen. I this is might have been mentioned in like our first episode, but I didn't come out in high school because, well, you know, it's high school. People are jerks. I didn't want to do that. So I said I was bi, just so I was like, okay, I'll like half come out, you know, and just like kind of see how that goes. And then once I was out of high school, I was like, I feel like I was like, I feel like I just I'm not though. I was like, I don't think I am bi. I felt like I was just gay. And I was like, I don't, and I I my parents knew they've always known. But like, you know, they're not just they're a parent's not gonna come up to their kid and go, are you gay? You know, like that's not how that works. So I told them over text one time just because I was like, I don't want to hold this anymore. I don't want to pretend that I'm half straight, you know, I don't want to do that. So I was going to work, it was like six in the morning, and I was kind of inspired by um I can't remember his name, but an NFL player came out one year, I think years 2021, I can't remember his name, but I want to say he played for the Buccaneers. Okay, and I think his name is Carl. I don't know how to say I don't remember his last name, but I know he came out and he made a whole video, it was very Scott Hunter, and I really liked it a lot. It was very inspirational. And I was like, I just need to come out. I need to come out. You know, I was like, I just need to come out, damn it.

SPEAKER_01 58:21

So what year was this?

SPEAKER_04 58:22

2021.

SPEAKER_01 58:23

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 58:24

And I was like, I just need to, I need to come out. I need to say what I who I am and you know, like embrace it, you know. And I saw that video on my mom's birthday, and I was like, I don't want to make this about me right now. You know, I really don't. We're here to celebrate my mom. I don't want to make a huge announcement of like something that's not necessary in this moment.

SPEAKER_00 58:48

Yeah. And something respectful of you.

SPEAKER_04 58:51

Yeah, it was my mom's birthday. I didn't want to step on that.

SPEAKER_02 58:53

If someone came out on my birthday, I'd be like, Congratulations, but like, it's my birthday. Yeah, like you know, like why they put the spotlight on you.

SPEAKER_04 59:03

Yeah, I didn't want to do that. I didn't want to do that at all. And we were at a restaurant, and I was just like, I want to come out to them so bad. I think the only person that knew fully was Claire. The only person that fully knew that I was gay was Claire, and I think I told her like a while beforehand. And I'd worked like the next morning. I was still working at like a doggy daycare, and I had like a really early shift just because you know they got to be fed and you know, taken out and stuff like that. And it was like 6 30 in the morning, and I was like, it's a Monday morning. I was like, I just want to rip this band aid off. If I could go back and do it differently, I would. But I just wanted to rip the band-aid off. So I just wrote an entire paragraph about like me coming out, and I sent it to the family group chat. And this was like the day after my mom's birthday, too, because I was like, I don't, I don't want to it's not that it would ruin her night, but like I don't want to make it about me. You know, we're here to celebrate my mom, not me. My birthday was last month or whatever it was. So I came out and they were all very loving and supportive of it, which was great.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:09

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:10

Which was very great. But like it was just very I didn't like I said, it didn't come out in high school because you know how our high school was. I don't want to come out in that area. And even when I was by, it still felt kind of iffy,

Close

SPEAKER_04 1:00:21

you know. So yeah, I came out over text and I just didn't really wanna make a big deal out of it at the time. You know, I don't think there I didn't want to like make an announcement or anything like that because I didn't need to. I didn't need to do that. But however, the guy from the NFL, his announcement was very inspiring, you know, and it felt like I could make an announcement to a certain group of people. You know, I didn't need to do it for like any other specific reasons or any other place. I did do it on my content creation account because I felt like it was necessary, yeah, you know, and I was like, I'm doing a podcast now. I want to express who I am and how proud I am of who I am, you know, blah blah blah. And that's when I came out to people on that, and it was very, you know, in the right moment, you know. So that I'm definitely proud of that moment for sure. But yeah, that's how I came out to my family. That's awesome, and it was very heartwarming, and they were all like, we know we love you and support you, blah, blah, blah. It was great.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:22

That's awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:23

It was great. Um, but yeah. Anything else today?

unknown 1:01:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:34

Kind of hungry. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:37

Valid.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:38

Anyway, I think we'll wrap this episode up. But um next week we'll be back and we'll put something together of what we're gonna be talking about. I want to say maybe we could do some show reviewing or movie reviewing if we want.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:54

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

We could maybe watch the imitation game.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:56

Yeah, something like that. We'll put something together for y'all and we'll let you know what we're gonna be doing. Um, I'll post something on our we'll post something on our Instagram of if you want to prepare yourself for it at all. Um, but thanks for coming. Thanks for watching with us. And um, you know, happy pride. And we will we will see you guys next week. Bye.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:22

Say bye. Bye.

SPEAKER_04 1:02:24

Oh my god.