NMG Presents: Behind The Music - Gabby Rivers

Alex Elbro hosts the fourth episode in a new series of in-depth interviews with some of the East Anglian music scenes most popular figures. In episode 4, Gabby Rivers talks about starting out in music so young, how her influences and style have evolved and we hear tracks from her latest EP

Transcript

SPEAKER_04 0:09

Hello, I'm Alex Elbro and welcome to Behind the Music. In this series we look beyond the music, discover the life, the passion and the stories behind the artists we love. I'll be sitting down with musicians to explore what shapes them, what inspires them and how their personal story is woven into their music. And today I'm talking to Gabby Rivers. Now Gabby is a singer-songwriter creating angsty alternative rock tunes navigating the chaos of young adulthood. She's recently been announced as the headline act at the BBC Introducing Stage at Latitude, as well as playing many festivals over the summer, and I'm delighted that Gabby joins me today.

SPEAKER_02 0:51

Hello to you. Hello. How are you doing? I'm doing really good, yeah. A bit hot today. Yes, I'm I'm enjoying the heat, that's right.

SPEAKER_04 0:58

Yes, yes, and with hot comes lots of festivals. And we'll talk about those in a moment. Um and you know, you're going into festival season this year with with new music and a new EP out, so it and a new sound, really. Yeah. And we'll we'll talk about how you've got to that from and when you're starting. Now, Gabby, if you take you right back to when you were a child, was there a lot of music around you? How were you influenced with music then?

SPEAKER_03 1:26

Um, so like nobody in my family is musical, no one plays instruments, no one sings, does anything, but one thing that they do love is they've always loved going to gigs, loved going to festivals, and like literally I've been brought up around music. If there was a new CD out, my dad would buy it and he would show everybody when he got home, oh I've just got this in Tesco's, I've heard this band are really good, we should listen to them. And he's always been really great at like finding new artists that are like about to blow up. Like, I remember when he like first found like Tudor Cinema Club when they first like started, which is crazy, and they were like a small band, and like same as like Noah and the Whale and the vaccines and like all these like up-and-coming indie bands, and I remember feeling like at the time, like all of my friends were listening to like pop music and rap music, but like my family was just so different, like we didn't listen to any of that, it was all like indie rock, like yeah, soul sort of music, and and I actually loved that because I was able to go and and see it live and go to gigs at like from the age of like four, so it was just yeah, not necessarily happening at home, everyone doing music, but like we were just seeing a lot of it and hearing all the time.

SPEAKER_04 2:35

But but then that becomes very natural to you just that why wouldn't you go to gigs and why wouldn't you see new music? And you know, that is a great ethos to be brought up in. Now you said that you all your friends were were playing other stuff and or listening to other stuff. Yeah, um, did was that any sort of conflict in that, or did you just think no, we just do this differently at all? How did it be?

SPEAKER_03 2:58

Well, I knew that like nobody my age, like it wasn't normal for kids my age, like eight years old, to go to gigs. So like I saw Fleetwood Mac like at the age of eight years old, which is like I'm gonna say that is very cool. I'd like to see that I kicked off because I couldn't go to my friend's Halloween party because I had to go to Fleetwood Mac. Um, and then now looking back on it, I'm like, as if I best choice. Um, but yeah, so I think for me it was kind of like I did feel like, oh, am I weird? Because I don't listen to what they listen to, and I'm not going to those sorts of shows. But then I feel like when you go to those shows and they're packed down and they're full of like like-minded people that all like the same stuff as you and everyone's singing along, it kind of makes you feel like no, I am normal, and this is cool. And I always felt like that. I always felt like watching these indie bands, I always felt like different and cool, and I kind of like that. I liked being unique to the rest of my friends and listening to different stuff than them.

SPEAKER_04 3:53

And that's probably reflecting like you could see with these um indie bands, yeah, you could see yourself within that. So and that's the whole point.

SPEAKER_03 4:00

Yeah, and then and then it made me feel like less weird. I definitely think like going into high school, it like hit me. I think when I was younger, like between like the age of like four and and like twelve, going to gigs, I didn't care. I was very like I was a very like careless child, I just did whatever and I was crazy. But when I went to high school, I definitely I like definitely felt the impact of it because then people started saying things and like bullying me a little bit, and it was just a little like that's such a cliche musician thing to say like I got bullied, but like it it happens, and um I definitely felt the impact of it, but um I I I was at a point where I'd started doing music at that point, like I just didn't care anymore, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 4:38

I think that's the trouble that when you are at that age, it's such a formative age, but it's also such an age where you're trying to fit in, and or rather you you could potentially just be like, Oh well, I will just do what everybody else does to keep quiet, keep under the radar so people don't point me out, yeah. But then you're not being true to yourself, and that's very hard to maintain that for a long time.

SPEAKER_03 5:00

And I was truly lucky that I had so many people around me outside of school that were supporting me. So it kind of felt like when I was in school, if people were being mean, it didn't matter because I had like I'd started, you know, going to open mics and people supporting me in the open mic scene. Uh like I'd got my first festival slot and uh Lee Stock Festival at the time was supporting me when I was like 13 years old doing that. My music teacher at school was showing me colleges that I could go to. I got an audition for the Brit School, like things like that. Like, I feel like because you it was like this continuous like support, it didn't fit. I felt like the noise at school was like just completely blocked out, which I was really lucky for because I know some people just didn't necessarily get that.

SPEAKER_04 5:40

Yeah, and they wouldn't have gone in, they would have said, Okay, that's not me, I'm going to something else. Yeah, so when did you actually start playing music or yourself or writing stuff?

SPEAKER_03 5:50

Yeah, that's that's always like such a blurry line for me because like I feel like I kind of like merged and it all kind of happened all at once, and it was just like a lot being being young and you know, starting high school and stuff. But I remember I was 12 years old and I was going to a theatre company, I remember that, and uh, but I I loved the singing side of things more than like the dancing and the acting, and I said to my parents, like I I was getting solos at the time, and I I remember I think I sang like make you feel my love at the Royal Albert Hall, like and sang a solo, and I remember just feeling that like in like with this choir behind me, I was like, Oh my god, like I really I could do this as my own thing one day, I could try, and um and uh yeah, I remember going home and telling my parents like I I want to try and do this music thing, and I might remember my parents being like, Well, we have no clue because we're not musicians, but they just were like, Well, we know there's an this thing called an open mic, I think you can take your iPod along with you and do covers. So that's what I did, and then off the back of that, I had loads of like um musicians, like old older guys who were out who are at the open mics, and they would be like, I want to play for you, like you can play in our band, and we can we know how to play Valerie on the guitar, we can do that for you. So I started doing that more at open mics, and you know, I was finishing school at three o'clock, showering, getting ready, going out to the open mics, leaving I'd be kicked out by like eight o'clock, and then so were your parents taking you around?

SPEAKER_04 7:12

My parents would take literally everything you know, you've got to have the transport exactly.

SPEAKER_03 7:16

Every week they were taking me out to these open mics just consistently, and then I remember I got offered a gig at one of the pubs, like to just do like a full two-hour set, and so I did that with like my guitar guitar teacher, but he wasn't my guitar teacher at the time, and then he said to me, Do you want me to teach you guitar? And I was like, Yeah, sure. So I started So when you said he's your guitar teacher, he wants to become your guitar.

SPEAKER_04 7:39

Yeah, because he So you were just you were singing doing the singing.

SPEAKER_03 7:42

Like ran the open mics, and he was like, and I was just doing the singing, and he would jump on play the guitar for me, and then and I would sing, and and then he was like, Why don't you learn how to play? Because like you could just practice at home, and I was like, That's a really good idea. So then I started going to guitar lessons with him, and then around about the same time, my dad was actually I think he was painting like an old an old airbase. Um, he was painting somewhere, and this old airbase is like a music studio, um, and it's ran by one of the members from the band Keen. They've like they own they own it. Um, and and my dad went in there and there was a music producer then, and my dad was like, I really want my daughter to like maybe try and write songs, like would she be able to come in for a session with you? And he was like, Absolutely. So, yeah, a couple weeks later my dad dropped me off after literally first picking up the guitar. Um, he dropped me off, and then I basically from between the age of like 13 to 14, I want to say, I started like doing these music production songwriters. He basically taught this guy taught me how to songwrite, it was really cool. Um, and then yeah, off the back of that, just started songwriting with him whilst like also studying at school while still doing the open mics, and then those open mics kind of blended into doing my originals at the open mics, and then that's how it all kind of kickstarted, if that makes sense. Oh, absolutely, and yeah, you you play with the band now.

SPEAKER_04 9:05

Were you playing with the band then?

SPEAKER_03 9:07

No, well or were you getting people just to jump on as an people just jumping on stage at the open mics and and and joining in, and then I remember I think I was like 15 at the time, and I can't remember somebody said something to me where they were like, Oh, you know, you're a young girl, like you've got and I had like older guys playing with me at the time, they're like, You should get a younger band in with you, and I was like, Oh, but my my guys, like like they've been supporting me since day one. Um, but yeah, obviously, like they're all like the same age as my dad, so I was like oh yeah, maybe I could, but I I didn't know anybody, no one in my school did music, no one in the area did. And I remember I went into Colchester one day, and I went I walked past somebody who was busking, and they were playing the cajon, and it was this young guy, he was like really good-looking guy, and I was like, Oh my god, it's so cool! So I left him a note on a receipt being like, 'Do you want to come play an open mic with me?' And he was a drummer, and he was like, 'and then off the back of that, he joined my band,' and then somebody who was a lot younger, actually, who I met a lot in the open mic single Jason, he was already gigging with me. So, me, him, the drummer, and Jason kind of all collaborated, was going to these open mics together, and we joined as like it was it started out as a three-piece, that's how it started as a band, and then funny enough, I got asked to do the NMG uh like I to perform at the NMG for the first time. Um, the NMG awards, yeah. The MMG awards, and I remember I freaked out because I was like, I don't have a band, I don't have a full band, I don't know what to do. And then my con player slash drummer at the time was like, Well, I'm he was in college, so he just started college, and he was like, I actually know a bassist, like, why don't we get a full band together? And that's when, like, literally, the yeah, the NMG awards was the first time I bet I've played with a full band, like that was the first time we did it together, which was crazy.

SPEAKER_04 10:59

It pulled it off brilliantly.

SPEAKER_03 11:01

Yeah, and I remember all that blue jumpsuit, and I was like, Yeah, and I was so scared because it's like you're performing in front of like-minded people, and it was like the first time I was playing as a band. So that was a I want to say that that was kind that for me felt like when Gabby Rivers started, like my sound, me as an original artist, like that performance was like the start of it all.

SPEAKER_04 11:23

And with this band that not not the band you pulled together just for that, but the th when you were at the trio, were you rehearsing in between um going to the open life stuff? So you were bringing yourselves together as a band.

SPEAKER_03 11:34

I was really lucky that like my parents had an old office space that they didn't use anymore, and my dad's best mate was like, Oh, sponsor you, I'll get you some music equipment. These people are just bringing it up. They're so amazing, and like and he was, I'll get, I'll get and he's like my uncle, this guy. So he was like, Oh, I'll get you some music equipment, Gabs, we'll buy you, we'll make you like a little stu recording studio. So he bought like all these recording equipment and um they set up this like little recording studio. So we if we weren't at if we weren't practicing as a band or doing the open mics, we were in my little home office recording studio together, sometimes even doing band rehearsals in there because it was it was the cheapest way to do it. And you weren't doing any music at school as it were. No, I actually um nobody not enough people took the music course at my at my school. So Music GCSE got cancelled, and that was around the time that I'd formed like year nine, year ten was like the first time I'd like formed the band. Yeah, and I remember it got cancelled and I was like gutted. I was like, oh, what am I gonna do? Because I wanted to go to the Brit school, I wanted to go to music college, and I was really panicking because I was like, I don't know what's gonna happen.

SPEAKER_04 12:41

So yeah, and it just shows how important these things are in school because that could have that could have just changed the whole path of what you did because you couldn't do exactly, but obviously you found a different way.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, luckily enough, like I said, everybody outside of school was so supportive. I I didn't really have a choice, I had to keep going.

SPEAKER_04 12:57

Should we play one of your songs now? Yeah, absolutely. Um should we do one of the videos? Yeah, let's do it. How about oh hang on, I haven't written down which way around. Um which one would you like to do this?

SPEAKER_03 13:11

We could go for noise, I think is a lyric video that I sent you guys. Um yeah, we'll do that. Let's go for that. Um I love this one, and it's just like so yeah, it's like one of the first ones we wrote for this EP. And I like it because it it's still it's kind of like older me bringing in coming into the new me. Um, and it felt like that transition. But saying that, me and Stan wrote it together, and we rewrote the song five times. Uh, so everybody in the band loves it, and every time me and Stan play it, we're like, we love it, it's growing on us, but also like it was a real pain to make.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

So sometimes the best things come out of when you've had to re-while. 100%, yeah. And we can then talk about your different sounds. Yes. But let's let's play that now, that's noise. So that was Noise, and that's was the first single. Yeah. Well, well, no, rather, that was the the most recent single that came from the EP.

SPEAKER_03 17:08

Yes, it came out with with the whole EP, so technically it was like a new one compared to the releases before that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 17:15

But but I'm holding back on talking about your new stuff because we're still watching it. There's so much more to explore. Yeah. So um you you mentioned casually about having wanting to be at the British school and having an audition for that. So what was how did that come about?

SPEAKER_03 17:30

What was Yeah, that was crazy. I had a real whirlwind of like a year. I remember going into like year, I think year 10 to 11. Um, and that was kind of like the first year that the band had like started, and we were doing things. I think we might have just won Berry Sound, I think, around that time, which was another thing you just dropped in. You obviously had to go through the whole of the it was real crazy. And I also that same year got given an opportunity where I could go to Abbey Road and I could literally just like be given like a one-to-one like music industry advice talk. Um, which was then so my dad. Oh yeah, he he was what again he was painting somebody's house um and and brought up that I started doing music and and they were talking about their kids as well, and then and then he said, Oh, I know somebody that's a um mastering engineer at Abbey Road, he's a really nice guy, he's got great industry advice, like maybe Gabby should go for a meeting there. So yeah, he took me down, and again, my school were supportive, they were like, they let me have the day off school, went to Abbey Road. Um, and then around around the same time, my graphics design teacher, who was my tutor at the time, was literally like so supportive of everything I did. But it was so funny because like he was almost like the most supportive out of everybody, but he listened to a lot of the same bands I did, and he introduced me to like tiny desk like YouTube videos and stuff like that. So like he was the coolest guy ever at school. Um, and I used to sit at the front and I I didn't talk to anybody um like in my in my uh in my class in tutoring, like in when we when we were getting the register done, I just talked to him about music the whole time. And he said, Look, I've got two colleges for you that I think would be really great. I think you should apply for the Brit School, and I think you and I was like, That's ridiculous, I'm not gonna do that. That's mental. That would never I'd never get into the Brit school. And he said, and and then there's also a one closer to home called Access to Music, and I was like, Okay, so I went to the open day for the Brit School and walked around, and yeah, it was literally like something out of a movie. I was like, wow, this is so cool, and then applied and got like I think like a an interview of some sort, and then they they asked me to go in person, so then I did like an in-person audition and an interview and stuff, but because I didn't get taught any music theory because my music course got cut, we had to do a music theory exam, and turns out I passed the the the into the four like the interview, I passed the audition, but I didn't pass the music theory exam. You have to pass all three to get in. Um so because I didn't pass the music theory exam, because I didn't get taught in school because the course got cut, um, I didn't end up getting in, and it was like like again, if you're out of catchment of the Croydon area in London, it's so hard to get into the Brit School. You have to be within like South East London to be able to like very easily get into the Brit School, whereas like everybody else out of that catchment area, it's like it's shut the hunger games, yes. Yeah, exactly. There's only so many because you have to have like you have to live with a family in London to be able to go, it's so confusing, like all of it. Yeah, yeah. And I remember getting the letter and just being like, Oh, I didn't get to the Brit school, and my life felt like over. Um, and and it was so hard, but again, like for that to even be given an audition and to go there and and be so close was like insane that they recognised me, um, and then yeah, got into got into access to music instead of Norwich, which was still a big jump. Like, every all of my college friends were going to like Barris Edmonds, so me travelling up to like a city was like huge for me, like it was mental. Um, and that before I started access to music that summer, they actually gave me a slot on the in-betweeness stage at Latitude, like which is like a tiny little acoustic stage. And what age were you then then? Uh I was 15 at the time, yeah. So I remember just being like, oh I I'm playing my favourite festival, and I'm playing an acoustic set, and I'm here with my best friend who I've come with my family, and and I'm going to this college in September. It felt it felt like really the best thing. It just felt like the best. And I had like the best year, like Abbey Road, Brit school, that all in one year. So it felt like okay, everything's come together, it's fine. And Berry Sound and being able to record music because I won Berry Sound was great. So yeah, it was definitely like mental.

SPEAKER_04 22:00

Are really great stepping boards for other things because one is you'll introduce to lots of other people, a bit NMG and Berry Sound introducing two like-minded people who you might collaborate with, but equally the prizes that they offer and the opportunities you may not get any other way, and they might be then the springboard to something else.

SPEAKER_03 22:22

Yeah, I didn't even consider like recording my own original music, like being 15. I was like, why would I record my own that's just long and expensive and I don't have the money for that. Um but then winning Barry Sound, being able to then record my own stuff and literally basically all get done for me was game changing because that was like 2019, I think. So then going into like 2020, being able to like and going into college, especially like a music college, having stuff already recorded, having a band, it just felt like I was really lucky to like start my my you know later teens, like 16, like in that position, which was great.

SPEAKER_04 23:02

So, do you think that that that was probably the pip pivotal moment when you were like, this is me? Yeah, I'm gonna carry on with that.

SPEAKER_03 23:09

Yeah, it was like the the age of like 16, like winning berry sound, and then like having like the NMG in the band and everybody and and everything and that award ceremony was like the start of like okay, now I know what I want to do, we just gotta start doing it. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 23:25

Did you find that you you were songwriting then? Yeah. Were you songwriting on your own, or were you getting the band involved?

SPEAKER_03 23:32

No, I was all doing it on my own at that point, um, and it's only really been within the past like two, three years that I've actually started getting other people involved. But yeah, for a long time it was just just me and my guitar in my bedroom. It was like the way the only way that I could like express myself and my feelings, so it's the best way to do it, and yeah, the band just wrote their parts, which was fun.

SPEAKER_04 23:55

Yeah, so you you brought it to them and then and then later. And they'd be like, Oh okay. So looking back then to that having to be able to play the guitar yourself rather than rely on someone else became really important then.

SPEAKER_03 24:10

Yeah, massively.

SPEAKER_04 24:11

Is that the way you write music now?

SPEAKER_03 24:12

Yeah, yeah, I all I I start writing on the guitar or Stan starts writing on the guitar, my guitarist, and then and then we we form a demo or a song, and I and I've always done it that way. I I've always started with with the guitar and the lyrics, and sometimes I even start like with the the with the lyrics. I write a lot of poetry. Yeah, so do you write and then yeah, sometimes like I'll have I already have like lyrics already written. Um I've got like a poetry book, and then I've also got like so much notes apps where I just like I need to write something. Um yeah, so I I do a lot of that. I I do a lot of writing. I always loved English in school, so like that was my way of just like, oh I I love poetry. Wait, I can write poetry all the time and put it in songs.

SPEAKER_04 24:54

Yeah, again, as sometimes people don't realise that the connection when you're in school and you're like learning poems or you're doing a module on this, and you're like, oh, why are we doing this? But then you can suddenly see the relationship, and then you're like, Oh, it's quite good that I learned that stuff because now I understand about structure and how to put it all together, how to put it all together, and like you say, you can put your own thoughts somewhere. It was so nice about it. So, what do you feel you were writing about then? Because I mean, that's over ten years, yeah, plus ish ish.

SPEAKER_03 25:26

Yeah, it's about eight, eight, yeah. No, no, honestly, everyone always does it like it seems like you're like a baby, yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 25:34

Like it feels like you've done so many wonderful things already that I feel tired, but yeah.

SPEAKER_03 25:42

Um, yeah, so at that time, the things I was writing about was um like literally just like girl drama at school. I just used to write so much about that. Girl drama at school, my sister annoying me, my mum, me and my mum are so similar, and we used to be because so much when we live together. So, like me and her like arguing, um, just kind of like day-to-day, what everybody goes through. I was just instead of like screaming about it and telling my friends and FaceTime my friends, I wasn't doing that, I was just writing about it instead. Um, and and for a while it felt like the right thing to do. Whereas now I'm kind of like and looking into my artistry and like who I want to be as an artist, like that to me is just like I want I want to be my own person and my own thing and write about like things that really like get a bit deeper basically.

SPEAKER_04 26:34

Yeah, so um from that though, I think if you're gigging at 15 and you're writing about things, I mean that's just that is you, yeah. Even if you're definitely you know, or or you know, you said you weren't necessarily great friends with everybody there, yeah. You're watching them and actually that's feeding some of the things that you could.

SPEAKER_03 26:53

I remember you know, I remember I wrote a song, I can't remember oh it's gonna really bug me what song it was. I think it was a song called like Stop Trying, which was like one of my first songs that I released, which I've actually taken down on platforms now, which is crazy to even say that. But yeah, I wrote the song called Stop Trying, and it was about like somebody I wrote at like 14, it was about somebody trying too hard to please everybody, and and them them being quite selfish and actually kind of hurting people that actually cared about them to be able to like be on top, yeah. Um, and I was just quite embarrassing that they're doing that, they need to stop trying so hard, like because otherwise they'd they'd find their life probably a lot easier, um, and they'd be a nicer person. And I remember writing that and performing it on open mic, and someone came up to me afterwards and they were like, I and they were like, this person was like 28, and they came up to me and they were like, I really relate to that song. And then I felt like it's very relatable.

SPEAKER_04 27:44

So I think that's say all those things that you do there, although you're like, oh, those are what we're going through at school. Yeah. People can really relate to that.

SPEAKER_03 27:51

100% and other teenagers and and and older can. But her saying that was the first moment that I realised, wait a second, I can write for me and other people. Yes. And I was like, that's a thing. Yeah. And so now when I write, it's kind of like I do it because I want people to relate and scream it and sing it and and understand it. Because if I feel that way, then you know, there's there's got to be people that also feel that way. Um makes you feel less lonely, I suppose.

SPEAKER_04 28:17

So, how would you describe your sound then? And then at what point did you think, as you probably came out of college and and you started to do di other things looking for jobs and everything else? How did you think actually I'm gonna change my sound? Because it felt like you you had a great sound, and so I've been listening back to some of the older stuff and someone used stuff, and yeah, you know, it's it's very you still, yeah, but it's much it's got much more of an edge to it, I think.

SPEAKER_03 28:45

Yeah, maybe that's just part of growing up. Definitely, I think I think it is. I think it's just like I think it's a maturity thing. I think like people always say that they're like, Oh, it still sounds like you, but um I mean my grandparents hate it, they're like, Go back to you, the girl with the red guitar, and I'm like, I can't, I can't do it anymore. But like, for me, it is a maturity thing, and I think I think it's also like a growth thing. I think it's also what you listen to as well. Yeah, like the the bands I was kind of listening to at 14-15 was the bands that like my family were listening to.

SPEAKER_04 29:15

So you the ones you were describing?

SPEAKER_03 29:17

Yeah, like two-door cinema club, like the vaccines, um, like lots of indie bands, and I remember and and that that sound that was the first sound that I released was like definitely what what my my family's listening to and what I what I'd always known. Um and then So you're almost trying to replicate that, yeah, 100%. I was realising there was anything else, yeah. Yeah, I was, and I and I remember just being like, I want to be an indie acoustic art an indie acoustic pop artist, that's what I wanted to be. Um, and then that was kind of like my first EP, um, which is called Headache. That was the first sound, and then I'm like you said, coming out of school and like writing in college and stuff and and and experiencing more things. Like I met my my I broke up with well my ex-boyfriend, we broke up, and then and that was like my first love, and I experienced that, and then I experienced like um a really bad like mental health period in my life, which was like awful lockdown, all these like pivotal things, and I definitely got confused. I was definitely like, I who am I now? Who am I as an artist? Because I don't listen to Tudor Cinema Club anymore, love them, but I don't listen to them anymore. And then I remember being like, but I listened to Tom Mish and I listened to Noel Carner and I listened to Della Sol, and then I was like, I'm so confused, and then but I was listening to like indie bands still, but like maybe new indie bands, like the Voyston Club, and I was just like, I don't know what to do, and I felt very confused. And I remember we actually had a writing weekend in Norwich, and at this point I was going to college and stuff, and I was with the band a bit more, and the band had changed a little bit as well.

SPEAKER_04 30:51

So, who who was how many of you were there then?

SPEAKER_03 30:53

So it was like um at this point, like as soon as I want to say I started college, lots of the original band members le had left because they'd gone to uni, which happens in every band. Um, and then I met my current partner who offered to step in and drums because he saw how stressed I was. I need to run, oh he was like, I'll play it for you, it's fine. So he he stepped in and played drums and now he's just a permanent member. And then um Stan Lee Horseman, OG, we love him, he he joined um because turns out him and my partner at the same time had like moved in together, so and I like introduced them and then they moved in together, so I was like, This is perfect, like we're all in a band together. Um, and then Jason still dedicating so much time towards the band, which was awesome. Um, and then we also had a guy called Jan who was a very again such a pivotal part of like being in the band, and he was in the band for about two years, and and he actually left because he he was working in a studio at the time and just couldn't commit, which is fair. But around we'd literally this was like lockdown, we released the EP. It's like between 2020 and 2022, I want to say. Um, we yeah, released the released the EP, lockdown had happened, I'd experienced loads of different things, I was listening to so much different music. TikTok had just been bought out, so I was being exposed to like so much music on TikTok, and I remember just being like, I don't know what I want to create. And so we had this writing weekend with the new the new band at the time. Um and we were where were you living at this point? And I was still living at home, but I was okay. I I say I was still living at home, I was basically living in Norwich. I literally never went home, yeah. I only went home to work my job, my barista job at a coffee shop in my local town, and to like get clothes and like just go back to Norwich. Yeah, um, so yeah, between 2020 and 22, we were experimenting so much, and that's when I made songs like Bug Bite, which was like a funk soul like pop track, and Rethink Restart, which is like an acoustic pop track, but then I was like but then I made Too Faced, which was like rock, and it was an O and Paradise, which are like all like some were rock, some were pop, some were very indie. And around that time I like really experimented um and got given some funding, so I was like, I'm just gonna put out this project. I'm just gonna because I think there's such a high demand for artists to always bring out new music. Yeah, I felt this pressure. I did if I'm being honest, and I and I hate saying it now, but like the disappointed but not surprised DP, I didn't feel ready to release, which had Bug Bite Too-Faced rethink on it, but I felt like I had to because I needed needed to. Because you needed to be seen and the algorithms needed to be. Yeah, exactly. And I released, but but I knew it was a mess. Like I knew it was like I didn't know who I was. It was I not not that I knew, I know now, but at the time I was like, I have to put something out, and I know that these are different genres.

SPEAKER_04 33:54

And when you yeah, so say when you say it's a mess, just the fact that you were trying out so each one of them had its different feel, like it was literally unified.

SPEAKER_03 34:02

Well, each song was a different genre, and I say that, and and and at the time I felt like I was so cool. I was like, artists don't need to stick to one genre, we can be whoever we need to be, and I was so like this is fine, but then I realised digging that that music, I was put on so many random bills, like I was put on like an indie bill, and then a rock bill, and then a and then a soul bill, and then I was just put on so many different like lineups, and then I was just like, I don't, but then and then and then I wasn't being booked necessarily for as much because I I feel like people just didn't know what what to do. Yeah, they were thinking or maybe Yeah, and then it really slowed down, and and and and you did a few fibres around that time. Yeah, I did, yeah. I did a few fivers.

SPEAKER_04 34:48

So well, this is the thing.

SPEAKER_03 34:50

I did I did the alcove stage at latitude in 2021. Then we then we wrote all of this like cra then crazy different genres because I was like, I need to grow now, I need to grow, I've had this moment, I need to grow. Then I was like, let's just put this out, put it out, then it really, really slowed down between 2020 and 2024. It was like it was like literally just like silence. Like, I remember I'd gone from like such a high from doing so many gigs to like doing nothing, and I was really down about it, like because I was like, I feel like what I'm making is awesome, but actually it was like genuinely not getting booked and not doing as much was the best thing that could have happened to me because I've just reflected so much in that time, and my partner was actually putting on shows at the time at Voodoo's and wasn't booking me in Norwich. So you think hang on there, and I was like, and I was so and he was doing like these shows that were like selling out, and obviously being being the girlfriend and being an artist to somebody who was promoting really great shows, I felt like so upset. I was like, what and he actually just sat me down and was honest and was like, please don't hate me, but like I don't know what bill to put you on. And then I remember when he said that it was like around 2023, he said that just after we'd done this like yeah, period of time, and he was like, I don't I don't know, I don't know what bills to put you on, sorry. He was like, You are really good, and what you're doing is good, but each song is different, and your set is a bit all over the place, and and I I don't know where to put that, and I I worry that it would affect affect ticket sales for if I put you on a rock band bill. And I remember just being so upset for like weeks and weeks and weeks.

SPEAKER_04 36:35

Were you angry? Uh initially, I bet you were.

SPEAKER_03 36:39

I think yeah, initially I was because you're like, hang on, this is your initially I was, but I I knew I've agreed straight away. Yeah, I knew straight away. I was like, yeah, and I wasn't happy. I wasn't happy with what I was making, like everyone and and and we were doing shows that were like sell we did like two headline shows in that time that sold out, but I remember just being like I remember I was doing like maybe like Two Face, which was like a rockier one, and I was like, Oh, I love this one, yeah. Um so yeah, that was like that whole period of time was a lot of figuring out who I was. I want to say, literally from like 2020 to 2023, was figuring out who I was, lots of mistakes, lots of errors, lots of growing, lots of writing, but finishing 2023, I was like, something needs to change, and I'm glad I'm really glad that it did.

SPEAKER_04 37:32

I think that's a really good point to to play one of your newest songs. I'm gonna say though, I love Too Faced, I mean I love and you could see that it was definitely different, and it felt like that was like a beginning. Oh, yeah, 100%. That that was the one that started it all, definitely. Um we're gonna do um medicine now. Yeah. Do you want to tell something about that? This is on the new EP.

SPEAKER_03 37:54

Yeah, this is one of my favourites on the EP. Um we actually wrote this song after the EP had finished, like after we thought it had finished. Yeah. After we which maybe maybe we'll explain about later. Like, I basically took a a long I took a year out of like basically gigging, releasing everything. Um, and in that year I got given some funding. So I wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, wrote, and just hid away and worked loads um with Stan, and me and Stan thought we'd finish this EP. I think we we set a target of like writing like eight or nine songs, um, and we'd done that, and then we were like, right, we need to take four or five of them to the band to pick. Um and then one night I came home and somebody at work had upset me, like really upset me. And um, and he really related to it. He was like, I've I actually understand this a lot. Like, should we and he just started writing this guitar part and then I started singing, and then I'm pretty sure we had some garlic bread in the oven or something, and literally by the time we'd put the gar like started cooking dinner and dinner was on the table, we'd finished the demo for medicine, which was like crazy. And then I remember being like, Oh, but this song feels a lot more like dig me and feels a lot more like the ones that we are gonna put on the EP, so maybe we should get rid of whatever one we didn't put end up going on. Yeah, and we did, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:19

So this is medicine, yes. So that was medicine, and you said that you've written that really fast. So sometimes these songs they must like they need to come out, and oh like you know exactly what you want to do for them.

SPEAKER_03 42:05

Mm-hmm. Yeah, I this one came so quickly, and also it felt like the grungiest one that we did, and then I was like, I I didn't stop listening to it. I felt like I had safe powers when I wrote this song because I remember like walking to work the next day, and the person that annoyed me, I'd like walk into work with my headphones on listen to this demo. Like, I felt just like so relieved that I'd got it off my chest. Um, and I remember this person saying to me, like, have you ever written a song about me? And I remember just being like, No, but in my head, I'm like, I've written a banger.

SPEAKER_04 42:38

I was gonna say, how do you balance your like personal experiences with what you write or especially as you're getting old, getting older, you know, you as you've changed uh and and you're working with Stan things?

SPEAKER_03 42:50

Oh yeah, I I definitely like now I I I think about what I write before I write it. Like I'm like, will someone relate to this or is this just a really niche experience? Um and and sometimes it is, and and I think I only I still write loads and sometimes I write about really niche experiences, but like and I don't release them, but like now it's kind of like a if it feels like a vibe, if it if it feels like people are gonna relate to it, like if it feels like a really important like matter and that I want to speak out about, then then definitely I wanna I wanna put this out to the world, and that and that's the thing I've started more or so like realizing that I have this like way that like I could actually talk about things that are really important in the world and and put them out, and and I think that's what artists should be doing, so yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 43:40

And does Stan ever bring anything to you and to work on you are m more collaborative?

SPEAKER_03 43:45

Yeah, he he's really good at um bringing guitar lines and stuff, and and because he's in another band as well, so like he and but because we now both have in both bands like distinguished sounds, yeah, it's really easy for him to rock. For both bands, because he's then able to be like, I've got this part for this band, but I've also got this part for you. And I remember when he came up with a guitar line for Dig Me, and I remember him just being like straight off the bat, this is the idea, and it just flows. So it's more so he comes up with the the the melody to the guitar line, and then I come up with the the theme. I also always run past the theme with the band. I'm always like because sometimes I'll be like, I think we should write about this, and they're like, You're a nutter, we shouldn't write about that.

SPEAKER_04 44:29

Um but most of the time they are like, Yeah, that's cool, let's write about that. And that's interesting what you just said then about how you you think it's it's important for artists to to write about not just within their own bubble to look outwards, and but sometimes that can be scary, I think, because you are giving a position of what how you feel about something, and that will always attract positive and negative.

SPEAKER_03 44:55

Yeah, you it it it's like you get terrified of how you're gonna be seen, or like, does this look unprofessional if I write about this thing? Um, but I also feel like I'm I'm looking at bands that are inspiring me and they're doing that, so I think that it's important that and and people love it, and yeah, I think it's important to talk talk about talk out about those things. I also think it's good to challenge yourself. I think as songwriters, it's really common that we write about personal experiences, but I think it's like especially now maturing and stuff, I'm like, oh actually I w I want to write about like you know things that are going on in the world and and important matters and things that I'm seeing on the news and things I'm hearing about, and yeah, does that affect affects you as well? And if it makes me angry, I think it's I think it's cool. I think and I'm writing angsty rock music, I think I think it fits perfectly.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

So this new sound for this for your EP and when yeah, when did the EP come out?

SPEAKER_03 45:48

It was on the 5th of Feb that it came out, yeah. So still fairly recent actually.

SPEAKER_04 45:51

Yeah, and it's it's called What's Your What's the Problem? Yes, yeah. I mean it's a brilliant title to start, and we'll we'll play that a little bit later. Yeah but um this sound that you you knew then that you wanted to you wanted to stick with the the kind of much kind of heav rocky but kind of I'd say heavy, it's not really heavy, it's it's very listenable, but it's got an edge to it, edgy. Yeah, I think edgy's the edgy. So did you then think, right, I need to change up who's playing or just ask them to play in a different way, or how did it work?

SPEAKER_03 46:24

Yeah, I yeah, so in in 2024, I remember taking I I I didn't say yes to many gigs. I I had at this time I'd I'd actually moved to Norwich at this time in between 2023 and 2024 I'd actually moved to Norwich and I was working a bar job and I remember I knew that I wanted to change my sound and I knew that I wanted to change up how we were as a band. I knew I wanted a lot to change, but I couldn't financially do it. So I actually spent that year writing with Stan in our flat that week because we were lucky enough living together. So we would write demos after demos after demos, um, and I told him these are my influences now, these are my new influences. I want to write songs in in within this genre, and it was bands like Wolf Alice, Nothing But Thieves, like really just like rockier, like Olivia Rodrigo's like rockier side to her, Avril Levine, like those sorts of like punk rock bands, and he knew he knew the task, like straight away he listens to those sorts of bands. He was like, Yeah, cool, let's do this. Um so it was it was me and him for like kind of like a year. We only just like worked together kind of for a year, and then we'd take songs to Nick and we'd take songs to to Jason, um, and we would just be like, write write your parts of this and band rehearsals, and that's the thing, like band rehearsals and and and our and our flat word, the two places we would be, and that was kind of it. Yeah, um, and if I wasn't there, I was in a coffee shop in Norwich, this one specific coffee shop that had really good Wi-Fi and really good pastries and and coffee, and I would sit there for hours on my days off because I got three days off a week, and I would just sit in those coffee shops on those days off and do artist applications for funding, and I would just sit, and then and then if I wasn't doing that, I was doing mood boards because I was like, Who am I as an artist? What do I want to look like? What does this rebrand have to look like? And I knew I'd already been given funding previously from companies, so I was like, I knew I had to change and show the change and show the plan to be able to get the funding.

SPEAKER_04 48:37

Um, so yeah, that's really clever, I'm gonna say, because most not most, as far as I can see, when I speak to other people, they don't really have that, they just sort of happen to evolve, and then I don't think most of them even think about applying for artist funding and looking for what there is and looking at how you can like basically build a business plan for it.

SPEAKER_03 48:58

It was it was that I had I literally had a Google Drive that said 2025 project. Um, and I remember the mood boards went into there, a year, a yearly powerpointed plan went into there. This is what we're doing in May, this is what we're doing in in June, July, and it would be like this this and this. Um and by by having that plan at the by the end of 2024, we had uh the single record well we'd we'd had we had recordings booked in for the whole EP, we had funding confirmed, uh, we had all of our live stuff that we needed to buy confirmed because somebody was supporting us with that, and we had like every and and again I 2025 wasn't the year that I was like I'm gonna do shows necessarily. It's like I'm gonna now sort the live sound out for this, and I'm gonna record the EP and I'm gonna do all the promo and the social media side for it. So like I knew 2025 was the launch year and was gonna be the graft, and this year was gonna be this year is like the promotion year of it and the follow-up from that. So it was a long process and it was a lot, it was a lot to get the band on board, especially people like Jason. Jason's gone from like singing acoustic songs in the pub with me to like me like showing him this rock song and him being like, Okay, that's fine with I guess I guess we're doing this sort of thing. Um, and but they were all one thing I will say is that the whole band was supportive, they understood the vision, and I think things like the mood boards and the communication and the drive and the and the funding and everything, me being like, we're doing this, these are all things. We bought like um I remember I got some funding and bought like a an in-ear rack system, which is like basically I was about to ask you about that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:47

I remember when you first got it and you were like, Oh, it's really trust. This is for like you know, yeah on stage, isn't it? Putting in and then you can hear you got the monitoring perfectly.

SPEAKER_03 50:56

And like if you've got like electronic sound, you're able to like put it like underneath um the sound, so it's coming out of the speakers, as well, but it does you but you're not paying to a back-in track. Yeah, it in technically in a way, it's kind of like a back-in track, but it's very subtle. Adding the things that you can't do on stage necessarily, yeah, and it also just saves money having to pay for like loads of musicians, so it's like it's like yeah, it's really cost effective. And I remember um I got the funding for that and bought loads of live equipment, and I think for the band to be able to see, hold up, we're getting the support for we've got our own innards and we've got our own packs. Yeah, oh, she really wants to do this properly this time round. Um, and yeah, and and luckily enough, the people around me that were supporting me weren't letting me quit or give up because it was really hard. It was like, you know, you see all your favourite artists like um that are in the local area doing all the festivals and doing all the headline shows and doing all the gigs, and you're sat there like in a recording studio figuring out to how to turn the click on on the SBD.

SPEAKER_04 51:58

Like, stick to the plan. Stick to the plan because that's what you needed to do though, because if you come out half cocked as it were at that point, then people they don't know what they're doing, they've got this like all this stuff and they're done.

SPEAKER_03 52:12

It's so frustrating. Just just being in a room of technology where you would you don't you've just been bought it by somebody who believes in what you're doing, and you've and you knew you've gone to a meeting with them and they've gone, I'll buy these things for you. Course, Gabby, you're yeah, you've got this. What you'll go and I've gone, I would like management at some point, and I would like to be played on six music and and I would like a big festival slot to launch this project. Saying that all to him and him and him be like, Fine, I'll buy it for you. But you've got to make sure you do it. Yeah, and then and then feeling that pressure, and then going into the oh, I remember just like doing the click tracks for the first time and in pirate studios, and it all just coming. The clicks are like style at different times. We're trying to stop in the SPD, everyone's playing like red in the leads, and you're sat here like we rubbish. It was it was that 2025 was such a pivotal year for us, and it genuinely the worst year of my life. Like, I say that to I had so much happen in a year, and I felt like the most failed musician ever. It was so hard because you're doing all these behind-the-scenes things, going through personal things, trying to move to London, like it was so much, and but I didn't give up, and now off the back of that, and loving the live sound, and we've mastered the live hot well, kind of mastered the live sound now, it's like it feels worth it.

SPEAKER_04 53:30

It's it feels like yeah, putting that in is definitely worth it. I know it feels like a really long time, a year anything feels like a really long time, but you had I mean, if you hadn't had the mood boards and you hadn't had your like yearly plan, then you would have gone, oh, this isn't working, like after minutes.

SPEAKER_03 53:48

And that's the thing. If I didn't have 2024 to sit down in those coffee shops and plan everything, 2025 would have been a what a lot worse. Yeah, which is I remember like I had a lot going on personally in in 2025, which I really struggled with. Like, I had lots of family issues, got into a car accident, like so much happened, and and I and I couldn't write about it because it was a lot to process, so I I got writer's block, it was a lot, and I remember having music and having that 2024 plan because it was so rigid and so to the T. I actually felt like going into band rehearsals and going into uh like recording and going into shooting music videos and doing promo was so well organised that it felt like I was able to relax during 2024.

SPEAKER_04 54:36

It was just you have to worry about when you're doing it. But I know but I knew I was doing because I I'd planned it, yeah, and yeah, that was I mean that sounds incredible. I don't think I've ever heard anyone say that. Yeah, and so that's amazing. You said you moved to London at that point, yeah, and then so you're living there now, yes, yeah, and you're working in music now. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 54:54

And what do you do? So I teach I teach bands in primary school, so I teach like essentially I I to put it in a short form, I'm Jack Black from School of Rock, um, but with safeguarding training. That's how I put it.

SPEAKER_04 55:10

That's absolutely perfect. And I think that I mean, what an incredible job for one and also what's a brilliant um inspiration for other young people. That's why I was talking about when you were at school and you you didn't have anything like that.

SPEAKER_03 55:24

Yeah, and it's a club that they I I teach at at like 10 different schools every single week. Same schools though, every week. Yeah, um, and uh they're all within in and around my area, so I don't have to go very far for them. I set up a little band station where you've got the drums, the guitar, the vocals, the keyboard, and then you teach them these pop or rock songs, and then they perform them at the end of the year. And it's like, don't get me wrong, it's very hard to teach a five-year-old how to play like the pretender by the Foo Fighters. Really hard.

SPEAKER_04 55:52

I'm guessing, yes, of what they expect and what they can play maybe not quite.

SPEAKER_03 55:56

It is hard, but it's like one of those things where you can go in and be like, like I remember I asked I asked one of the students the other day like what their dream job is, and he was like, Well, I don't know. And I was like, Well, you're a really good keyboard player, you know you could do that as a job when you're older, and their face lit up, they didn't know that. And it's like, um, and I've got some bands that have like just bought out their own merch, and they're like in year five, and I'm like, that is mental. Yeah, and I've and the only reason they bought out that merch is because I told them to when they were trying to annoy me whilst I was setting up my equipment, I was like, go do a merch design, and they did that, and now they've got their own merch, and I'm like, this is like and the thing is I'm able within within teaching them in that I only get half an hour to teach them a week, but in that half an hour that I teach them, I tell them about the industry, and don't get me wrong, I've still got loads to learn, but I'm able to tell them things that I've done already, and it definitely inspires them, which is awesome, it's so cool.

SPEAKER_04 56:51

So you launched your EP in f only in February, yeah. And have you got 2026 plan? Yes, yeah, and it look feels like there's a lot of things you're already achieving in this year.

SPEAKER_03 57:01

Yeah, we really we literally said 2026 was just gonna be live. We're gonna gig in different places, we're gonna go to new places, we're gonna try and start gigging in Brighton and and Bristol and Manchester and and do loads of festivals. Um that that's that was the only priority. Um, and then had some unexpected uh things that I got asked to do this year, which I didn't didn't anticipate. Um throw your plan. Really through the plan. So now I've had to make uh uh a new plan, but the new plan is just like ten times bigger than the than the than what has ever been, so yeah. That's amazing, all independently as well.

SPEAKER_00 57:46

Yeah, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 57:47

This is because there's so much push for social media and social and content, yeah. And if you're not in there, your algorithms won't show on anyone's things, so you've got to include that's part of the thing.

SPEAKER_03 57:58

But you say that you say that I moving to London, I've been really trying to go to networking talks to kind of help with my plan and figure out my plan and everything. And and I went to a networking talk and somebody said to me the other day that they think social media is dying. Good. And I mean, no, not good, but you know, like making it less important. But this this came from like somebody who's doing really well in the industry, and I remember when they said that it was actually Kate Nash that's who said it. She was doing it, yeah. And and she she said she thinks that social media is dying, and she said that she don't she doesn't think that it's gonna be a thing in two years' time, and she thinks that it will go back to like how Oasis started and like how Arctic Monkey started, and it's gonna go back to these like live things and and and doing something different, and and you know, even bands like Kyo have started to do it, like they're they're doing that. They did blob on social media, they did it through the live stuff.

SPEAKER_04 58:48

So I and it is genre dependent, but yeah, and I think I mean live experience is always gonna be the best. So if you can get people, that's the thing, get changing people's mentality to get to live gigs, yeah, and experience new music that they make. Exactly.

SPEAKER_03 59:01

So I think I think yes, it's there's a lot to do for every artist, but I think things will change and it will always be constantly changing, you've just got to be ready for it.

SPEAKER_04 59:10

Yeah, and you and music is is at the core, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 59:13

So that's it.

SPEAKER_04 59:14

Yeah, so we'll let's play another one of your tracks now. Um this is the title track from your EP. Yeah. Um, What's Your Problem? Yeah. What's the problem? Sorry. Um I always think of it as what's your problem. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But um, do you want to give a little bit of a introduction down? And also, you know, why you made it the title?

SPEAKER_03 59:34

Yeah, so the the song is about somebody again who I was working with. I I started it in a job that I I'd like a really different industry I'd never started in before, and it really like threw me off, and and I I met a lot of people that had very strong opinions, but great, like friends for life, but also like people that I will never speak to ever again. Um so like it really changed me as a person. I I came became really angry over that time, and it and I became really like I did I wasn't that countryside girl anymore. I was like more of like a I'm a city I'm a countryside girl in a city format with opinionated people when it was really overwhelming. And I remember there was this one person that kind of like left me at a time that they needed that I needed them the most, um, just because that all they cared about was like sleeping around and getting with girls, and and I was so like angry and just like you've left a team full of people behind you who care and support about you just because you care about like sleeping around and it really upset me. Um but then they would always complain about those people that have always supported them, and I was just like, What what like what's your problem? Yeah, but I don't understand, and then I realised that the rest of the EP was like that. It was like about people that were opinionated but creating problems when they didn't need to, and making me and being ultimately quite selfish, and I've been lucky that I've been bought around people that have forced me not to be selfish. Um, so I really struggled when people were selfish, and I think especially when you become an adult, you start to realise that people are selfish.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:13

Yes, yeah, and it and it's and it's really hard, especially if you're a really nice person, um people please them because then you're always thinking, oh no, I'll do something for the good of other people, and forgetting that there are these people that exactly.

SPEAKER_03 1:01:28

So what so the EP being like, oh, what is the problem? It's like what what is this problem? Because I don't understand, my family don't understand, my my partner doesn't understand, so like, why have you got an issue? Why is this person got an issue? And realizing that most basically all the tracks are about about that, um, but this kind of one brings it all together.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:50

Yeah, let's let's he let's hear that now. Yeah. Excellent. It's it is a such a good and like it the thing with your recent music is is that you can really it works so well live and you can just feel in the audience people singing it back and uh getting really uh into it, so it's gonna be brilliant. Yeah you've got a lot of live stuff coming up now, and you said this year's you're gonna be your um promotion yeah promotion year on live stuff. Um we I've mentioned at right at the top of the the um this show that you you're headlining latitudes so you're playing on the Saturday night.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:28

Yeah, so we we got asked by Angel around about a month ago now, um, from BBC Introducing Suffolk and Norfolk to headline the BBC Introducing Stage Um at Latitude on the on the Saturday night at nine o'clock. So that's a that's a brilliant one.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:47

And and I saw a lovely picture of you as probably as a four or five year old you think about going with your parents to that at latitude.

SPEAKER_03 1:05:54

Yeah, it's the festival I grew up going to. I I I literally couldn't tell you how many times I've been. I think I've been about nine or ten times. Times. Yeah. It's it's like we we would go every single year with another family. We would go together. It's like my mum and dad's like best friends. They would come with us and we would all go together. And I was really good friends with their daughter. So like me and her were friends, and we'd go and we'd get to wander off when we were like 12 and do what we wanted to do, and it was it was really cool. And and and yeah, I think I think when when you get to headline a festival like that, and you go, Oh, I've always been going to that festival, it's like no genuinely. There's actually like adding photos like things. Yeah, yeah, everyone says. After the festival. So we'd be like, Yeah, I was like, I think there's a photo of me like eight years old um in France and him in him in France like months later, and like we've just got these like mangled like latitude wristbands on. Um, but it it shows like it it it was the festival always had my favourite bands on it, like that me and my family loved growing up. Like, I remember we saw Crystal Fighters play there, and it was like really sunny that day, and it felt magical. And there's so many photos of me at that festival.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:17

It's the beauty again of being in a live thing and being with the people and feeling it and just thinking I don't need to be anywhere else now.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:23

This is just and it's like it's the it's the place like I've made so many memories, memories at the festival. It's it was the place that I met my first love at, like it's the place uh where I had my first ever kiss, like it's the place I first got really, really drunk. Like it's the place where like I might have done some illegal things, you know. Um it's it's like but you know what I mean. It's like it's my it was my first of like a lot of things and and and it's and I remember being very drunk and going up into the woods for the first time, and this was like I I want to say around about the age of like 14, 15, and seeing the BBC Introducing Stage for the first time and seeing the lavish lounge and the woods, and just being like oh these so oh it's a so-called Betty Turner, I think headlined it one year, and I remember watching her set and being like not jealous, but like envious. I was like, Yes, yeah, yeah. I want to do that one day, but I'm young and I don't know how to. Um, and uh it's like obviously playing that alcove in 2022, was it wrong 2021, 2022, was a dream and was like the one of the best things I've ever done, and and it was honestly like a blur. I don't remember much of it because I it was just a whirlwind. Um but that BBC stage has been a goal of mine since I since I can remember. I've seen like my favourite artists on that stage, so it's it's pretty cool. Bessie Turner was actually a big inspiration for me when I first started. So um yeah, to see to now be asked to do it. I didn't quite believe her when she first asked for the headline. I'm not gonna lie, I was like, I'm uh not me. Headline, no, I mean headline, no, that's not right. Um, but yeah, now it's just it's still.

SPEAKER_04 1:09:10

Well your sound works really well at at a a later time as well. You know, like yeah, you know, you going thinking back to you when you were younger, you know, uh the acoustic thing, they're very rarely gonna play in a somebody with an acoustic guitar on their own late on, anyways.

SPEAKER_03 1:09:26

Yeah, so yeah, and and it's gonna be fun to be able to to celebrate, honestly, just this EP. Um, because of how hard it it's been it's been a long process since like kind of since the end of 2023. Um we've wanted to launch this sound. Um so three years on now being able to do that in the woods at latitude is kind of mental, do you want to say?

SPEAKER_04 1:09:47

But yeah, I mean and so where else do you have for for like 2026-2027? Yes, yes, time moves, like that's exactly got your plan? Have you got places that or maybe even 2030? Yeah. Say places that you want to, if you can set places that you'd love to be at, or things that you want to have done or do. Yeah, I mean I mean you said about Bristol, Manchester, and I wanna I wanna start gigging all over the UK.

SPEAKER_03 1:10:18

Like I wanna be, I want to do shows in Bristol and Manchester, Brighton, but we've started doing shows in Brighton, which is really cool. Um, so I really want to kind of like crack like different scenes and just kind of be a part of different scenes. Exactly, it's so hard. And honestly, if you don't have a booking agent, it feels like impossible sometimes. Um so yeah, just kind of crack that that scene and and do that. Um, and also genuinely for the first time in in ever is keep on going with the sound. I'm I'm so happy with this sound, I'm so happy with who I am as an artist now. I'm happy with the red hair, I'm happy with like the vibe and the style and what I'm wearing on stage and how I look. Um, and god, it feels so good to say because I didn't think I'd ever say that. I was always constantly wanting to change, yeah. New era, new era, new era, and now I'm like, nope, this is who I want to be. I'm writing the most I've ever written. So, and the band is is probably the most dedicated they've ever been. So it's like now we're at a point where yeah, it's just like go, go, go. Um, the live stuff is like definitely a priority, and and and luckily enough we're able to fit in recording.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:26

Do you have a favourite part of the process? Like, is it the writing? Or I mean you can like them equally, you don't have to have a favourite, like, is there do you like them all as you do them and like doing live?

SPEAKER_03 1:11:38

I think I think it's I think it's it's probably quite cliche of me to say this because we've been talking about it, but festival season is my favourite part of of doing it because you get to reach a brand new audience of people that like haven't heard your stuff before, but also you're guaranteed to have like good sound, good show, like well most of the time a good show, and like um and you're in the sun, and like I'm I'm but I love the summer, so like just being able to be outside, and also it forces the band to get into a rehearsal room. I think we all work like nine to five Monday to Friday, so it forces us to be dedicated and get into those rooms, so yeah, it's really I I love festival season, but also off the back of that, I also do really like just sitting in our in our house in our little recording studio and and and creating demos. I've recently started uh I I think he'll be okay with me saying this, but I've actually started working with a producer, and he doesn't say that he's a producer, but he is. Um Suboku is actually doing a lot of my production work at the moment um and creating this like heavy like rock electronic sound, um, and I love it. It's like the best stuff I've ever created, and it's forcing me to balance recordings alongside. Yeah, I did I did a I did a song with him once where he rapped on it, but he's actually not doing any like vocals or or or rapping on any of this, he's just the guy at the desk for producing it and writing with us. So yeah, he's doing a lot of writing with us at the moment, and and it's great, and and everything he's doing it sounds awesome. So because we're like so locked into festival season and and the gigs and the shows and the live stuff, by being able to hang out with him, he's like one of my best mates. So being able to hang out with him in the studio feels like free time, it feels like we're just having downtime and and recording. Um, and then now we're so in love with what we're making with him that we are forcing ourselves to also book studio time, which is a really good balance, actually.

SPEAKER_04 1:13:33

Um and what and what about like this time next year? Uh is there any festivals that you'd love to meet um yeah, or in five years' time?

SPEAKER_03 1:13:42

I think I think everybody says it, but Glastonbury is like a dream. I go to I work at Glastonbury every year with all my friends, and um, we have the best time, and I always go and see artists that are up and coming. Saw Native James play there last year, and he was incredible, and it made me think like I'd love to do that one day. I'd love to be I work at behind the scenes and I get to see the work behind the scenes, but I'd love to be the artist. I'd love to be able to do do that side of it and and be a part of it. And latitude is obviously my favourite from a family growing up perspective, but Glastonbury is like also another favourite which I I adore. So Glastonbury's always yeah, is a dream. Um, or even just like maybe like emerging talent competition. I've always tried tried to manifest something like that. Um the Road Festival would be. Yes, yeah, and and beard of theory as well. Yeah, um, dot to dot, great escape. There's so many great ones as well. Those ones, like in particular, especially escape, yeah. So that's like you're nearly there on that. Exactly. So, like those are all the goals over the next like five years, I'd say. Also, like it sounds so boring of me to say this, especially, but like being independent, like I'd love to be able to get a booking agent because doing working Monday to Friday, nine to five, and then doing a lot of it on my own and and and organising the band, just being able to have somebody help me with the live stuff would be so blissful, but we it we'll get there, and I'm I'm manifesting that. So I manifested uh a BBC six music play and I got that. So see, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:12

If you manifest it, it will come. Yeah, hopefully. Now, um, is there any advice as we're coming to the end of this? Is there any advice you would give to your younger self now? And and you know, you you've come through so much in in a quite short space of time. Yeah, maybe what would you when looking back?

SPEAKER_03 1:15:30

I would say be ready for anything and don't give up because of that. Because I think sometimes it can get really overwhelming when you do get big opportunities, but be ready for it and be ready for it after post-it as well, like like post-gig or post-opportunity. Um, because like and I I and I I would love to share this story very quickly about when I played Latitude Alcove Stage in 2021. I was 17 at the time, and I played it and I loved every single second of it, and I I gave it my all and I I was prepared for the day, prepared for the show. But I remember afterwards, post latitude show and everything. I didn't have any music, I didn't have any new music, I didn't have anything recorded, I didn't have anything to post on social media, I didn't have um any other shows to follow up for it. Um, and I spent I got my streams after Latitude went like that for about two months and then back down again. Same as followers, everything. And I remember that high that you get after you get an opportunity like that is insane. And I always say, don't BBC Introducing and and these in these platforms are great and they're incredible and they're a luxury, but don't rely on them because if you rely on them, you're not gonna get very far. And I and and and it and it took me about a good year to kind of recognise okay, I need to stop relying on other things, I need to do it all myself and never expect anything off of anybody or and all that sort of stuff. So I remember after that happening, not being prepared was really embarrassing for the for the aftermath. I remember, and people always say this to me, I'm really hard on myself. I was 17, I was a child. But if I didn't experience not being prepared, I wouldn't be where I am today because I remember being embarrassed, and I remember actually when uh Passion Parade got it the year after, I told them my mistakes, and I remember when Chess got it, I said, make sure you've got posters and flyers to hand out before the set, make sure um you've got a single ready to release, a show afterwards, because I didn't have those things, and I genuinely believe it's why the why I didn't progress as much as I could have. Um so yeah, it was my biggest one of my biggest regrets in my career. Um but again, I was a child, yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:17:53

So like you said, that was a learning process, yeah, and you found that out very early. Yeah, you could have found that out in 10 years to be able to do that.

SPEAKER_03 1:17:59

Exactly, and I'm really grateful that I did get that opportunity early on, so I've now learned so much from it, and it wasn't just necessarily latitude, it was other things that I've done in that within that year. I've released the project, I'd released the EP, my first ever EP, and I had no clue what I was doing. And I remember just being like, I need to be more well prepared, and I'm really glad that I did, and just yeah, now being able to I I actually said this to the band you don't ever get to do it twice with US introducing, and I and I am flabbergasted. I'm so blown away that I've been asked to do it again, and I'm not taking it for granted this time, so yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:18:35

Very well deserved. So you've got to say that as well. And just the last question then are there any artists around at the moment that you um really admire or ones that you'd like to let everyone know about, local or slightly bigger? Oh, that's a really good question. You know, once we check out, yeah. Um everybody, can I say everyone?

SPEAKER_03 1:18:55

Yeah, everyone's smashing it. There are a lot of amazing artists. I'm a big, big, big advocate for like what the Norwich scene that I was lucky enough to be a part of for a couple of years. Um, so Pleasure Inc., um, who are on the Norwich scene, are doing exceptionally well, and every song that they're releasing is just like next level. Um, Elfay from Norwich, she's doing amazing. Uh she's just been out to Boomtown and Latitude, which is just amazing, and I love everything that she does. Um, and then even like um like Suffolk artists like Nina Aurea, she's incredible. Um, you've got Evie Freerson from Essex who's amazing, and and it's it's the girls. The girls are coming through and and they're doing great, but yeah, and and it's really exciting to see where where they're all gonna end up. Juliet from Norwich, like she's she's smashing it. Um I'm a I'm a big fan that all the girls on the scene right now are doing something cool, but are all doing something different, yeah, which is pretty awesome.

SPEAKER_04 1:19:59

Yeah, it's amazing. Thank you ever so much for this, Kevin. It's been enlightening and exciting and really interesting. I've absolutely loved it. And we're gonna finish with um your sing another one of the singles. Yes, yeah. Uh Always Messing with My Mind. George, just give us a bit of an intro into that.

SPEAKER_03 1:20:16

Yeah, um, this is probably Medicine in this one is my favourite off of the EP. I love I love the song. Um, it's the only slow song on the EP, and I and I wanted it because I wanted to show off like my writing and and my vocals, and I remember Jason wrote the guitar part for the song, um, and then a couple weeks later we were in band rehearsal and Stan started playing the guitar part, and Jason goes, That guitar part's really good. Who wrote that? And we're like, yo wrote that. Like, what do you mean? Um, and yeah, we uh I wrote it about a time where again somebody had um really badly mistreated me, and Stan was actually with me the day that it happened. This this person basically like had a huge go out, go at a go at me outside in a public space, and like they were just screaming and hollering at me. And I remember just being like so taken back by it, and and Stan was with me, and then we actually ended up writing about it together. Um, and uh it was one of those things of being like, and this person was like a really like gorgeous person, like they could be a model. So I remember just being like so I couldn't stop thinking about them, and it really annoyed me because I was like, I don't want to think about you because it was almost like this pretty privilege, I call it, like where where they got away with doing a lot of bad things because of how stunningly gorgeous they were, um, and people felt really sorry for them, but actually they were mistreating people at the time, and it really messed me up, and I was like, I don't want to think about this person because they're technically not a good person, but they're really pretty, um, and it was really confusing. And I remember being on holiday um uh in Bournemouth at the time, and I was sat on the beach thinking about them whilst my whole family were throwing stones, and I was so angry, I was just like, I don't want to think about this person, and so I started writing on my phone the lyrics, and that's how the song started, and then came home. Jason wrote this guitar line, and then I said, Stan, we should put these lyrics that I've written whilst I was on holiday to this song. Um, and my partner is he loves like rock and have lots of heavy metal, and I remember when we showed him it, he hated it. He was like, Alright, oh it's slow, don't like it, and he didn't want to play the drums to it and he for a strop. Um, and then he still doesn't like it to this day, which is so funny. And then it got played on Six Music three weeks ago. Um so now who's in the room? I don't I I I was in bed and I went, This is so funny, I'm never gonna guess what. And he went, What? And I went, do you know the song that you hate that V EP actually just been played on national radio? What do you know? So now hitting and now that it's but now that it's getting the recognition that I think that it deserves, I mean it's I think it's the most like played song out of all of my songs that's been played on the radio. Um, I'm spuzzing because of that because I love it so much. It's it's a it's a thing that that the band loves so much, apart from Nick. And and now now uh nationally people appreciate it as well. Yeah, that's fantastic. We're gonna play that out.

SPEAKER_04 1:23:12

So thank you very much again, Rabbi. It's been absolutely wonderful. Yeah, it's been amazing.