Of Seed and Soil
Hosted by Sommer Sibilly-Brown, founder of the Virgin Islands Good Food Coalition, “Of Seed and Soil” seeks to digitize the often untold and uncelebrated stories of farmers, fishers, producers, and food advocates from across the Virgin Islands and wider Caribbean. Through heartfelt interviews and candid conversations, the series invites listeners to reflect on the deep relationship between food, memory, identity, and resistance.
Of Seed and Soil
Episode 12: “It Takes a Village to Feed a Village”
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In this special installment of Of Seed and Soil: Unincorporated Voices of Food, Farming, and Freedom, host Sommer Sibilly‑Brown sits down with Tarik and Tamara McMillan, co‑founders of Greater Changes LLC, a liberation‑focused behavioral health and wellness agency rooted in Caribbean culture and community empowerment.
Together, they explore the holistic power of building community around farmers—not only through physical support but through emotional, cultural, and mental well‑being as well. This episode shows that farmers do not flourish in isolation; they thrive when the whole community actively champions their work, sustains their spirit, and removes the stigma around mental health that so often burdens those who carry the heaviest loads.
In this episode, they discuss:
---Why supporting farmers mentally and physically is essential for resilient local food systems
---How Caribbean family values and shared history shape collective nourishment and mutual care
---The role of community in sustaining farmers’ well‑being—not as an optional add‑on but as a core component of food sovereignty
This episode is a reminder that genuine food justice lives at the intersection of care, connection, and shared responsibility. When we invest in each other—body, mind, and spirit—we cultivate more than food: we cultivate community.
🌱 Learn more at: www.goodfoodvi.org
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🎧 Subscribe and follow for more conversations that nourish the heart, elevate the land, and remind us why we grow together.
Welcome to a Seed and Soil Podcast. Unincorporated voices of food, farming, and freedom. I am Summer Sibley Brown, your host, and today I am so excited to be filming another episode where we are uplifting the voices of people in the Virgin Islands and across the Caribbean about their food and farming stories. And today, um, with me in studio, I have Tariq McMillan. Hello, Tariq. Hi. That's funny. You're like, hi. Hi, Tariq. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I am excellent.
SPEAKER_03So I guess to jump into this conversation, I'm just gonna rip the band-aid off because what most of our listeners will learn as they subscribe, like, and watch of Seed and Soil is that I have deep and intimate relationships with almost everybody they're gonna see on this podcast. And so sometimes that means I forget to do the whole introduction because I'm super comfortable with you. So I'm gonna do a formal hi, Mr. McMillan. How are you?
SPEAKER_01I feel great.
SPEAKER_03Can you please talk a little bit to us about who you are and what you do?
SPEAKER_01Um, my name is Tariq. I feel like I am uh trying to figure out what hat to put on in this conversation.
SPEAKER_03I want to hear all of them. We want so, you know, this is a good what hat, all of them. Because we want to give people full context about who people are who choose to be in farming or who choose to be land stewards, it's like not monolithic. So please tell us all of them. Okay.
SPEAKER_01Um, I am a co-owner of Greater Changes, Behavioral Health. I'm a therapist. I am struggling to say farmer, and we could talk about why. Um, and I is Stanley Jacobs' grandson, and Feel I'm our child. I'm bigger brother, I'm our brother.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I I love all of those intros, and so I wanna I wanna parcel them out for our listening audience. So one, Terik is a therapist, um two, Tariq is uh son, a grandson, a brother. Um, three, Tariq is new and beginning farmer. Does that feel better?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yes.
SPEAKER_03I feel like you're missing a couple titles, so I want to pull them out to you because you got a few more. So you're an avid bike rider, and you're also you're a co-founder. Who you to co-found with?
SPEAKER_01My wife.
SPEAKER_03Oh because I'm like, you shouldn't call it for me. Not for me. I know all the titles.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because you so usually when it's a greater changes thing, I have a whole spiel where it's like clinical director and da-da-da, and of course my wife. But this is a little different, so that's why the whole thing ain't come up.
SPEAKER_03Why because it's a little different?
SPEAKER_01Um, because I feel like we're talking more about me. Um, and I'm I guess I'm trying to separate, keep greater changes kind of like over here, but the more we talk, it's like it's impossible. That's a huge part of who I am.
SPEAKER_03Okay, so let let's let's separate, but let's just start with the introduction because I feel like greater changes is a huge part of who you are, and I think I feel like in watching your journey, greater changes has led you to to to be a new and beginning farmer in some ways. Yeah. So, what is Greater Changes?
SPEAKER_01Greater Changes is a behavioral health and wellness agency in the Balgin Islands. Um, we also do work in a few states in the states. Um, it is it started off as just therapy, um, uh husband and wife practice, and then it morphed into an agency. You ask Samara why, and she'll say it's me because that's what I wanted to do. Um but it's also uh I got this for you. It's uh it's a vehicle, it's a vehicle for liberation. It's just uh the difference is you do food and and I'm in wellness, and you kind of like see the interconnectivity there.
SPEAKER_03So I do food. So we so the I think the commonality we have is that we are people who are seeking liberation. Um I'll speak for myself, liberation of self, liberation of the Virgin Islands, right? Liberation of humans, right? And I feel like it'll happen in degrees that would have spent a lot of time talking about that. As part of that liberation, um I do think wellness, that intersection of wellness, is super important. But the reason why I thought you would be a great person to have a conversation with um on this platform specifically is because I feel like we came to an understanding that land was also a part of the liberatory process. And while I was dreaming about it, right? Like, oh yes, we all need to own land and be land stewards, you went and did it. So I want to talk about that process and what prompted you, right? Like, we could talk about the dream of land and then like what prompted you to do it.
SPEAKER_01Um, so a lot of it was growing up and being on my father's property because it's his. Um, and it's it's been like there's there was so much space. Like you always had space to do something to move around or go someplace. Um, I think the journey starts there, but like specifically getting to where I am now, it was luck, I think. We luck? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, luck and and chance and universe kind of like pointing everything in the right place. But we Tamara and I had been talking about buying property for a long time, and we happened to stumble on something that was for sale at a pretty low price, below like what probably market price, and we just like hey, let's try and do it, let's see what happens. And we went through the process and got pre-certified, and then I was like, okay, cool.
SPEAKER_03So there's two things that I pre-know that I want to bring into this. One, in our just like regular sitting on the porch conversations, you told me um a story, I believe, of your grandmother's or great-grandmother's vision for land.
SPEAKER_01Yes, yeah. Um she what's her name?
SPEAKER_03Call her name. You know it?
SPEAKER_01Boila. Her name is Boila.
SPEAKER_03Boila?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, because I can't call her anything else. That's Boila. That's Boila. Um but in speaking of my grandfather, he told me stories of how much she had planned out like where she wanted to buy land, how she wanted to buy. Like it was like, it was just so structured. Uh, things kind of like things got in the way to like disrupt a lot of it. But the parts of the plan that did work, um, being seeing like like land pass down from her to my mom to my aunt, like it just seeing somebody put a plan in place 60 years ago, and then like it being like seeing the fruits of it now was like a huge thing. Um, and I don't think I I realized how much of it played a role in the decision until like getting there. But I don't know, I don't know if I thought about it in the entire process. Maybe like it was just something like in the in the back there as an influence, but a lot of it was like we we should own land. Like you look around and like the land is just kind of going away, or somebody else owns it, or it's we really really expensive, and the the fear of not being able to own a piece of what's you know your home.
SPEAKER_03So I want to uplift that I that I think that that's important, right? Where you just mentioned, like, so there's the market value piece, right? And then there's also like watching it be taken away, or or that's what it feels like, right? Um, through the process, and then like grappling with like, will I actually have a chance to own a piece of this place where I'm born, and like where my grandma or great-grandmada like had a plan for us to be stewards and like in relationship with this place, that like what's what am I contributing to like the next generation? So I think those are very real things that Virgin Islanders I know myself grappling with, like, and you were inspiration to me when you came by the house and you was like, guess what? Right. So, what I would love is for you to tell me just a little bit about the process because I think so many of us are intimidated by it and actually don't understand it and haven't done the work. So, like, how do you go from dreaming about land, right, into that lucky part? Because to be lucky also means you had to have some things in place and you have to do some things.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, so it began by like I said, stumbling on the property. I think it was on Zillow or something, and just reaching out to the realtor that was there, and we had a few conversations. We went out, me and my father went to check the property, and I was like, oh, this is huge. Um, and it's like tucked away, and like it's just it's just this beautiful place. And so, like look at you smile. I haven't like like reflected on the whole thing since I guess in a while, really. Uh only for maybe six months now. Um, so we got there, we looked at it, and then things moved incredibly slow after that. It was like it it I think that in total it took like six to eight months, the entire process. Um having to like to go into the pre-certification part for the loan, and then every time we would submit all of the things, it would be like, well, now you need this thing, and you need this thing, and then you need this thing. And then maybe somebody like went away for a while. So like the week, the week just kind of stopped. It stopped for the entire week. Um, the person who I forget her name now, um, at Banco, she was incredibly helpful. It just there was just so much to do, and it seemed like they were all overwhelmed with like all of the and I guess that plays into it, like so much people doing it. Um, the people that can, that it's like they were overwhelmed with everything else. Like, so I guess in that way it's like gratitude that I was one of them that that could as well. But we got there, and then when we got to the final end of it, the they then said like, oh, I think you need a need to have someone co-sign on it. And then I was like, oh, but you guys said I didn't need that. And then so I had to like do that. Talk to my grandfather about don't pop on the table to ring.
SPEAKER_03I love that example.
SPEAKER_01Um talking with my grandfather, he helped me out. I wouldn't be able to do it without him. Um I would not be able to own a property without him. He like from the encouragement to keep on going to like the financial help, like it was he was a huge part of it.
SPEAKER_03So you said one in the step there was pre-qualification. Um you said that it's about six to nine months time period, and that's like with everything relatively going in order. And then I wanted to highlight that you said, and they kept asking for additional things. So in like you walk in to the bank, right? You decided on a bank, you pre-qualified, and then it was just like, Okay, here you go, sir, right? Because I think a lot of times we have a misconception of what it means to um go from you know, non-business owner to business owner, non-farmer to new farmer, um, non-landowner to landowner, right? This is all process and all along the way, even though you were lucky, even though you still consider this now as happenstance, even though you had encouragement and support, you were actually in a process. Did that process ever get frustrating? Did you ever be like done with this?
SPEAKER_01Who want like for the birds? There was a few times where I was like, tomorrow, maybe maybe this just ain't in the cards. Maybe this is something that we just put off for now and figure something else out later. But we kept with it. And I'm not even sure like like what the the entire motivation, maybe it was because I spent so much time out there during the process.
SPEAKER_03Oh, let's talk about that. Go ahead, Sarah.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, so the the property has it, there's a top road to it, and uh we my father and I like we went in there with like the machete and like cut a path and I got chased by by Jack Spaniards in the first time. We're gonna talk about the bees later, but but it was jack spiners in the in the the journey, the trail into it, because we were trying to figure out um if water settled anywhere, and it's like maybe this isn't the best thing to buy. But we figured out that it is fine. I mean, I was in there like at least two or three times a week and a few times a day.
SPEAKER_03So what I what I remember and what you what you're bringing up for me is like there's two things that you were juggling, it feels like, and you could tell me if my interpretation is accurate, but like as a new and beginning landowner, like who had a dream, who got lucky, who got pre-qualified, you still went and you sat with it. Like you didn't you you you built a relationship with this piece of land while you were going through this process. Um is that something somebody taught you? Was that an eight? Did you feel like the land was calling you? Like, why were you going back?
SPEAKER_01Um there was a lot of comfort, like like there was peace out there. Um there was we even we did this um like this land reading. Like yeah, we hired this this lady to come out there and like did this reading of the property and like um what was the energy that was out there and like the I don't want to say an entity, like there was an entity that was like that was there, like with us while she was talking and like like they would say things and I was like like how how are you like how do you how how are you communicating? It doesn't make no sense. Um I remember her asking this question like he says you're out here all the time. Like like you are you just here, like you just sit here, and he and I'm like, yeah.
SPEAKER_03I think goosebumps topic, but go ahead. I mean good goosebumps.
SPEAKER_01And she said, like he feels he feels comfortable with you. Like, like that's why he's here. Like that the land sent some like a representative of the of the land. And we just we talked about um where to put things, like the house should be near the town entry that's on the property, because that's that's what the energy feels, feels like that's what the energy fails to do. It they talked about where to face the door because in times in like even like a hundred, two hundred years ago, when they would when they would burn the hurricane fields, which also happens to burn across the road, um, the smoke would fill that area. And the play, the person who built a house that was near the same tamarindry, they faced it in a particular direction so the smoke would like, it wouldn't get into the house essentially.
SPEAKER_03So this for me is um one beautiful, two, um it speaks to the fact that land remembers, right? So, like when we talk about like okay, the name of this podcast is of seed and soil and you know, unincorporated voices, like it's it's also about these stories, right? That land is not inanimate, right? It's actually living and thriving and has memory. But what you're talking about is the people who walked and lived and loved and died and felt and had hardship and growth in the same space in which you are about to like add your footprint to like what what what even made you be like, let's have a land reading. So let's try it.
SPEAKER_01That was all Tamara, I was 100% Tamara and Gabby. Um, I had I had no attention, I didn't even know that that was a real thing. Like, like what do you mean a land reading? Like, you mean a surveyor who will come and say what the boundaries are? No, they meant somebody. So that I had nothing to do with it, but I'm so happy that it happened because it did make me feel like there was a stronger connection with this piece of property, um, and it pushed me to learn more about what's actually written. So, like who owned the property, oh wow, what what was done there. Um it's been a while now, so the names escape me. But but you know them. Yeah.
SPEAKER_03They escape you, but you actually went and found them.
SPEAKER_01And I file home. Um the the person the person who owned it initially, it was it was this group of this group of rich Danish people who owned Stinkroy Sugar Factory. And I think they had become, I forget what what led to it, but they sold it to a lady. And the lady had a husband, the husband had a like it was just and they just passed down that way. So it's like we went to lieutenant governor's office, we went to record our deeds, and like we just like read as much as we could.
SPEAKER_03I signed up for ancestry.com to find all the bosses' name, and like like so now, like there's a clear record of who owned it, um, who they are, like what did they do, and so it's not just like like land dust, it's uh it's a living, it's a living thing, a living so in a lot of my work, um, especially when we entertain or invite guests who are not from the Virgin Islands to come and talk and learn about food systems or learn about this place, or when um Synchroy Foundation, you know, who was my fiscal sponsor for many years, would host retreats, we would always have Sonia Dow, um Miss Dow, who is the executive director of landmarks, she would always start us off. And one of the things that she would remind our guests, and I had this experience when I went to Hawaii, is right, that St. Croix is not a blank canvas, right? So when you come here and you're coming to invest, or you're coming to choose to live here, or you're coming to be in relationship, it is in relationship with something, something that is full of rich history, and so the thoughtfulness and the intentionality of your approach, you and Tamara's approach to being landowners. I I applaud it because I don't know that I would have thought to do that, right? But now it's definitely like, yeah, when I own a house or when I buy a piece of land, I also now kind of want to know because I I want to be part of honoring and remembering those who were in this place before me, and I think that's a large part of how Virgin Islanders will bring back prosperity and happiness to ourselves, right? Just by honoring honoring land.
SPEAKER_01One of the things that um her name is uh Rayelle, that's her name. But one of the things that she said was sometimes we we select a place where we want to do a particular thing, but that's not what the land was is there for. So like she's been a part of different projects or went out there to help different people who maybe they're building some, maybe they're building a boutique, bed and breakfast or something. But the land doesn't want that. The land wants it to be something that's for a rehabilitation, something or a wellness, something, and everything that goes there that's against what the land wants just fails. And that so for me is like, let me figure out if this is what the land wants.
SPEAKER_03But that also like the story of so many things that we have started on St. Croix in specific or in the Virgin Islands, where like these huge projects come, these huge, and you know, we take our relatively small land because 84 square miles, 32 or 34 square miles, you know, like when we think about our land mass, it's really small, and we we put a large chunk of it to like do this large development project or this this thing we think on work and we invest so much money in it, and then we just have empty buildings, right? Empty buildings that become ISOs and they just decay. Um, it could be because the land were rejecting it from the beginning.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I think it it does tie in to the work that greater changes did in like the agricultural field because we went so when we worked with um VI Department of Agriculture and the Sage VI, um one of the things that we were intentional about was because the project was in understanding trauma and farmers and how to build programming for farmers and get different resources. And we were intentional about making sure that we had conversations with farmers to figure out exactly like what is it that you actually want. Because so many times we come into a space and we have this great idea, and we say, hey, take this idea, and then when it doesn't work, you blame the people for being ungrateful or or not wanting to use it or whatever.
SPEAKER_03So I don't say something that I often say that I don't normally say to the mass public because I think, like, I I mean cancel culture is real, right? But I think that people aren't ready to hear that gentrification, the symptom of it, or how we understand it. Looks like one race to another, that's how we experience it. But to come any place and to ignore what exists or the desire of the people who have been inhabiting it and superimpose your will, that is gentrification. So just because Summer lives here, okay, I live Christianstead, I don't live Frederickstead, but I have a great idea for what I think could make Fredericksted booming. And I don't consult or even seek to understand the ideas, the needs, the desires, the lifestyle of people in Frederickstead and offer my idea to them and be like, hey, is this something you're interested in? But to feel like I have resources and I know a solution, and I think this will make this place better, and to just superimpose my will on top of the will of many people fosters erasure, right? And also that is a form of gentrification. So gentrification is not something that is held by one race of people, it is how we understand it because there's an economic, there's an economic factor that that allows for people to move resources quickly and to change the surface of areas of land, in this case, quickly, that we relate to being like a white and black divide where we all can embody like that spirit of gentrification. You mentioned that you greater changes, um, did some work with agriculture. We're gonna tackle that in a whole next episode this season because I really want to dive into the wellness piece. But what I want to talk to you about, so now you're a landowner, so you weren't a landowner, you had a legacy of land. Boila started a legacy of land, intentional planning. Some of the things worked, some of the things didn't, but there was something to pass on. Happenstance happens, you find this little piece of land, you go through the you go through the process. Ta-da! Terek is a lot, Terek and Tamara is a landowner. What now? One, do you remember what it felt like when you signed that dotted line? But like, what is the future of your land?
SPEAKER_01So before before what the future is, um, one of the things that stands out in this moment. Um, so my father owning his own property. I remember him saying, like, he bought this property. And I don't know if this is gonna like shift with the other book, so we don't have to go all the way down.
SPEAKER_03No, but now we shift, now we see where the road goes.
SPEAKER_01Um he he bought the land in East because he wanted to be upwind of the refinery. He didn't want, he didn't want, like he like he was thinking so far ahead, like I don't want to be some some someplace where there's an emergency at the refinery. And no, and don't get me wrong, like it didn't say like the wind don't ever blow the other direction, but very often, like, like you see what happened in Frederick's side when something upwind happens. So like he was thinking about that in the like very early on, and he also, even where like he built the house, he like shoved it in like the corner of the property. So like my brother, my sister, like we have space to build elsewhere at some other point. Like I remember him saying, like, when I moved home after after college, after grad school, he was like, I I bought this property and I built this house, knowing that you and your brother are gonna go to college and you're gonna have a place to come back to when you when you when it's time to come back home. You know, so like there's all that stuff that happened there. So that's that's that part. And now for me, when I think about what the future looks like, um I don't know. I don't know exactly what it's gonna be. I know right now it's the plan is to have a farm that could sustain me and my family. Um, I don't know at what point it becomes like this is what I sell and this is how I make money, but for right now, it's like I want to be able to grow the food that I eat.
SPEAKER_03So I think this is another thing I would love to highlight in our conversation because you went to college, what college you went to?
SPEAKER_01I went to Gannon University in Pennsylvania and then Duquesne University, so Erie, and then Pittsburgh.
SPEAKER_03So you came home, you have your degree, you founded a you founded a business, you're businessman. You you are a co-founder of an agency. You didn't say business, you said it's an agency, right? Which I love. Um, and you choose into farm?
SPEAKER_01Why it's important.
SPEAKER_03Oh no, because I think a lot of people have one of the reasons this podcast exists is to show the context of who and what a farmer is. Because I think a lot of us, when we see a farmer, we don't see a businessman, we don't see a person who has uh a degree who went to two universities or colleges. We don't see a person who we think has a spread of opportunity in front of them and the qualifications to achieve it, we're just like, oh, you're just a farmer. And I don't think that's the truth of many people working in the farming industry or the food system, and how do we attract young people to this very important thing if they don't get to see the dimensions of who and what a farmer could be. So now, with all of your achievements and accomplishments, including being a landowner, like you're like, yeah, as I'm a farmer.
SPEAKER_01You know, even even hearing you say it like I'm a I'm a landowner, there's like a a discomfort because it feels like I uh I don't know, like like I don't want to be viewed as like separate from everybody else because I own some land. You know, like I I feel like sure I own land. There was a fear, and and to to this this episode of this podcast, I have not really spoken a whole lot about owning property, or I may have talked with a few people like select in the circle, but am I in the circle?
SPEAKER_03Oh absolutely, okay, good.
SPEAKER_01But there's there's a fear of like I want to say being being judged, being viewed as as like somehow like different. Like I'm not I'm not of the same group as I was before I'm like one of the others who owns Rana and like that that's that's not it.
SPEAKER_03So I think that happens a lot for us in achievement, right? Like when you begin to have a plan, and you and I had a really difficult conversation one time. I won't bring up, but right, like about as you begin to achieve and make decisions and lead and plan out your own existence, right? And those things, it does feel like some of your pairs or some of the places that you fit, you don't fit so well anymore, even when like you're reaching back because your conversation has changed, or you know, your focus, and so all of these people you still love them, right? And you still want to be with them, and to your point, you'd just be like, Okay, and you don't want to other them and somehow feel othered by it, yeah. Um, and it's a wild dynamic.
SPEAKER_01So it's it's not so much me feeling like I'm I'm different, or like even the conversation has changed because we're gonna still uh we're not gonna talk about the land so much, right? It's just just being viewed differently. Because even with like um, I mean, it's a horrible reference, but uh what else the movie name? Precious. Um that's the that scene where like the mom is like, since you know everything, you got your degree, like like there's like this different, there's like a othering that happens when like you do something different than like some of my other peers. Um, and that's that's the thing I'm I'm always afraid of, really, because I I I want to just be.
SPEAKER_03But also who wants to feel ostracized, right? Um, by people who we love and care for and identify with, and I and it could also all be internal, right? It it could be like, am I misinterpreting? But two things I want to kind of go back to um as we talk about what it means to achieve certain things, I want to distinguish, right? I'm deliberately using the word land owner, um, even though what I mean is land steward, right? Because if we think about indigenous practices, right, and if we think about the life and legacy of land, who don't really own it? We don't we borrow in it, we don't all get to steward it um for a short period of time, but I also think it's important for our generation and for people for whom the opportunity to steward land um and the Virgin Islands have a legacy, to your point, right? When you talk about your great-grandmother, right, who had a plan for land in this particular place, land ownership or land stewardship was led by people who look like us, my great-grandfather John Joseph Sibley, right? Him and many of the other French families in St. Thomas, they stewarded large swaths of land, and then it kind of switched to like land being sold off, land not being under the stewardship or control of Virgin Islanders, and so like I just wanted to name the juxtaposition that we understand this is about stewardship because you can't really own land, and naming you as a landowner is also a big deal, right? Because you get to keep this stewardship and forward it hopefully for generations, yeah. Okay, back to farming. What types of things? I know you're new and beginning, but as you imagine or explore, right? What are you thinking about?
SPEAKER_01Um, for sure, patch on fruit. That's that's a that's a for sure, for sure thing. Um, I already have some of them growing in pots already uh to plant trellises. Um I know I'll be growing cassava, uh, okra, eggplant, swiss chard. These are all the seeds I put on like two days ago.
SPEAKER_03Okay, seeds in the ground.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, um, and then and then definitely some sunflowers. Uh one because like they're beautiful. And I spoke with my brother, maybe, or was it my mom? I don't remember who it was. Um, but I remember them saying like sunflowers are cool and you should probably grow some sunflowers. And I'm like, uh well, why not?
SPEAKER_03So, what I want to gift you with is that farming is an experimentation, right? So you're gonna learn a lot. Um, in your so owning the land was a process. Talk to me a little bit about becoming a farmer. Like, what is that process like? Did you get help, support, information?
SPEAKER_01So I would say that it started in those conversations with um the farmers on the project that we work with. And meeting a lot of the farmers and having those conversations, it was uh incredibly insightful. And I just chose to like continue having conversations with those farmers, and I've been given so much guidance on like what not to do, like what are the mistakes that they made very early on. And one of the things that they did mention, even though I list off like five or six different things I want to grow, is like they're one thing. Um I am experimenting, like you said, so I'll I'll try some stuff out. But if it if it's like the passion fruit stuff, I know that that's one of the things I really want to focus on.
SPEAKER_03Why are you so certain about passion fruit?
SPEAKER_01Uh because I know what I'm gonna do with it. I know I gotta make juice, I know I gotta make ice cream, I know I gotta make jam and jello and all the other things that are derivatives of everything related like to the passion fruit. So the rind, everything, the seeds, the pulp, everything.
SPEAKER_03Because passion fruit rind can make cellulose, which is a jelly that'll make jam. Yes. And so most people like I just like connecting that there is so much, so you're talking about value-added production, so you have a vision for that. Um, but I just doing this because we cannot have this conversation and not plug daddy. So I'm will just be like, Oh, you so sure you won't make ice cream.
SPEAKER_01How are you so sure? Because I know exactly what ice cream machine there. Um, we have like two or three of them. Um, and Passion Fruit happens to also be in my top five favorite ice cream flavors. So for sure the Pasha Fruit is going to be made, and it's also the best seller.
SPEAKER_03So if you are watching us and you live in the Virgin Islands, or if you're coming to the Virgin Islands, what Daddy Juice business name is?
SPEAKER_01Feeling ice cream and things.
SPEAKER_03Feel like ice cream and things. Um, so I'm calling him daddy because he's a father figure to many people, um, many people in this community, and especially to me, right? So, one of the reasons we know each other so well is your father. Um, and I'm really excited because you feel like you're gonna end up like continuing the juice business legacy, the ice cream making legacy. Like, so yeah?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, oh yeah, 100%. Um, last week was I just toot in my own horn a little bit. Uh last week was was my five, our five-year anniversary, Tamara and I, and the place where we stayed had these Pachan Fruit vines growing, and it had the right patch and fruit on it, and some have fallen off. And I was like, Tamara, you want some Pacha fruit juice? So we don't have Pacha Fruit juice. Yeah, we do.
SPEAKER_03I'm here.
SPEAKER_01I I made like like two cups of Pacha Fruit juice, and like that's what we had with breakfast. So like I used to think, I didn't know, I didn't think anything of being able to make a juice, right? Like that you just make some juice and you put it together and but when like when I watch my father make a juice in the kitchen or in the food cart, it's like he's like a chemist. He's like, this patch of fruit is too aesthetic, so it has to have something to counter that. You have to do X, Y, and I can't give out a recipe though, but you have to give you a few. Nobody's gonna want a recipe. You have you'd be surprised.
SPEAKER_03I mean, well, not on this show, in this moment. We keep the patents.
SPEAKER_01But if you see this, yeah, but there we go, you you can't tell people these things.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so totally.
SPEAKER_01Um, but yeah, but being able to like to taste what the what the juice is versus what it should taste like, and like like like you know what to add, I I didn't realize how how difficult of a thing that actually is to do. Uh, especially when like all the passion fruits taste differently or they have a different acidity, you know. So, so yeah, so that I know for sure that passion fruit is going to be a thing because for the last like eight months I've done so much research on what I could do with passion fruit and how to grow it best.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, no, so um we have mixed saryl jam, um, and in making a sarreal jam, what happened is we used the cellulose from the passion fruit rind and apples to to make it so our jam could get thick. So that's how so research is involved, right? I want to say, like, but it is like the best thing to make something with your own hands and create something with your own hands, and so as you experiment, how long do you think it's gonna be before your farm comes online?
SPEAKER_01Uh eight months, yeah. As I say in six to eight months, just to give me time to like do everything. I know like I'm I tend to be, I won't use the word indecisive, but I know I could get a different idea about a way to do a thing. Um, so I just give myself a buffer.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, but I also I think it's important for people who might be considering, hmm, I want to I want to grow the food that I'd eat too, right? Like everything is just about how you start, right? Like we can't, I love your answer, I don't know. I think on um, I think there's an episode where the first episode actually that aired, Omi's like, hey, so what is this? And my answer is I don't know. And the reason I'm so comfortable saying I don't know is because I want people to be comfortable that it's okay to be uncertain, um what is required is next step action, right? It's okay to put one foot in front of the next because I think a lot of what we are doing in the Virgin Islands toward liberation, land ownership, food, like all of these things we don't know. We don't know, but like if we keep walking towards it, eventually we'll get there, and then in hindsight, we could do things and re recoup and recap processes and make it easier for the next person to know just a little bit more, right?
SPEAKER_01Even with how we prepared the land, um, after Rayelle came out and gave the readiness, one of the things that she highlighted was there's a lot of things, like old things on the property that if you just bring a back or any heavy machine and it's like push everything down, you're gonna lose it. Um you're gonna destroy it, and it just won't be the same anymore. So that's a part of what took really long. Um after after buying the property, like most of it, we my father and I, Stefan was there, we we cleared with like a matchet and some weed eaters and some clippers and and then bringing someone with a vulture to so we're not like pushing everything over. Like we went through, like I knew where everything was. And there's a section of the land where like someone built um what are those things? Did I use them in St. Thomas very often?
SPEAKER_03Because they're growing accidentally because of me. And I suppose to know everything that I use in St.
SPEAKER_01Thomas.
SPEAKER_03Big part season, part, but I don't know.
SPEAKER_01So because you said thing, I wouldn't know that's what I mean it's uh it's a it's a structure, it's built on the side of like a hill, so like the plant that you could grow. God, what the name? I can't remember. But there's like these raised, there's like these elevated points where like they built it with stone. Um and it's like there's different levels in the land. Terrace? Terrace. So you don't know you would have known.
SPEAKER_03Oh terror thing, yeah.
SPEAKER_01So um had I just like gone through there with a machine, it would have just teared them down. So I was I like stumbled on it. The other thing that we stumbled on was a well. Can you imagine like like mashing up a well because you want clear land?
SPEAKER_03You know, so like I can imagine it because I think like modern day agriculture says take a piece of heavy equipment and run through land as opposed to I feel like your exercise helped you to get to know the land. I I am this is the second podcast um in which I am talking to a person. So it's not the second podcast in episodes, but it's second podcast in which I'm talking to a person who um like your relationship to how you understand the land feels like like she is a person to you, right? Like there is this, this is the second time, like even when you were using your hands to describe again. I I vividly did Luca Gaspari, right? Like his description of the land that he stewards on South Shore and his recollection of it felt like that very intimate, and like understanding the contours and the swales and the design of the land felt so personal, and even as a new and beginning landowner, as you were talking about the land and like knowing where everything was, I was like, Yeah, yeah, we knew each other very well.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we um I say we just being on the land, like it's gone through so many different phases where there was like patches of like tantan and these other trees that were growing in places and like cut them down, and it's it feels like a different piece of property every time like you clear something. Like you could you could be there and feel like disoriented because you don't read like you cut all this stuff and now you're looking around like I don't remember how to get out. Like I've got lost like walking through because I clear a section over here and can I ask how big is the land? It is two and a quarter acres.
SPEAKER_03And I wanted to ask another question just for clarifying for myself, right? I know I know we mulch, but why? Why is mulching important for the soil?
SPEAKER_01Uh I wanted to be able to put everything back into the soil, but I also didn't want to destroy everything. And you also, if you like, depending on how you clear and how you push it, like you need a permit. And I wanted to do things in a way that wasn't like just like destructive to everything.
SPEAKER_03Um let's rewind. So you own the land, but in order to do certain processes on the land that you are now owning slash stewarding, it requires a permit. A permit from who?
SPEAKER_01From DPNR. Um, actually, there was an interesting situation. Uh the data was being cleared um with the with the skid steer.
SPEAKER_03What's a skid stare?
SPEAKER_01I only learned that term two days ago.
SPEAKER_03So I've heard I've I've learned the term four months ago, and I've been talking about skid stares as part of like what could go in an emergency disaster trailer to support, but I actually don't I gotta I guess I gotta Google it because I actually don't know what a skid stare looks like.
SPEAKER_01I know the describe is it's a lot smaller background.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Um that's helpful.
SPEAKER_01And while you still like could could dig holes and stuff if you needed to shape stuff, like w what the reason why I use it one, it was a favor from a friend who helped. Um And the per my neighbor also happens to like like that person knows all the rules, and we had a situation where they saw me clearing it, and they thought that I was like digging into it and shaping it and changing the earth, and it's like, no, like I I I love her. I don't want to, I don't want to do that. Like that's that's not what this is. Um, and I was actually really amazed when I saw the machine working because I've only seen these machines like like like just completely like uproot something or dig up something. Like he was so gentle in how like he like barely scraped the surface to remove the mulch that was there for like a few months. And I was like, Oh, you're being so gentle with her, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_03Um, this is gonna be a wild reference or a good reference, right? But just yesterday I watched a podcast, Voices of Iwa, talking about Ogun, and Ogun um is the orisha that represents like metal strength, you know, like in a lot of places people see it as like brute force or like warrior-like, right? Like just victory. Um, and they were talking about the duality of like Ogun's ability to be soft, to create, to like forward society. So when you were saying that, I was like, Well, isn't that well, isn't that interesting? That just yesterday I watched a podcast that was talking about this, and now when you're understanding, it flashed me straight back to like the duality of a thing. Um, because we're talking about uh huge metal implement that is smaller than a backle, but is usually used just to well, I don't know to say usually used, but in this case, it was one is a much easier machine to move.
SPEAKER_01Um and it was just it was easier, it was easier to navigate. I do it watched the person who was very skilled in doing it, do it, but it was just amazing to see what it what it did like.
SPEAKER_03So as we begin to kind of like round out um our conversation, I feel like I've heard you talk about like relationships and the support you've received. Um your grandfather, um, your neighbor, somebody doing you a favor. What is it you know, your your circle of trust? Do you think there are places where you didn't receive support that you thought might have could have been necessary or helped you along this journey in a different way, or like is was there if you had to highlight one major challenge or barrier that was just like if we only had help here, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01Um I don't know if if if any if any one thing just stands out. Um I think the process with with the bank was a lot more difficult than I thought it was going to be. Um and difficult because of how long it took and the amount of information I had to like keep submitting. Um maybe like something was lost or something wasn't just it wasn't in order. So like it, and then they found it. So it was like those are the things that that made it a little more difficult. But everybody who I spoke to, um, the folks at USDA, at NRCS, um, being able to like give like some guidance, like you know, if you you can do this and you could do that, and you maybe consider doing this, or connecting me with somebody who has done X, Y, and Z before has been really helpful. So being able to pick up my phone and call somebody, hey, I have an issue with my well. What can I do here? And they're like, Oh, I had this issue before, this is what I did, but also call these people because this is how they did us, that's what you're doing. Like things that I would have paid a lot more money for, like they were free services that that for farmers that that were available, I had no idea of. So, like being connected with those things were really helpful.
SPEAKER_03If you had a message um to future landowners or new and beginning farmers, like if you had a charge or something you wanted to say to people that just like you feel like I won't tell you this right now, boom, what would it be?
SPEAKER_01Uh pick pick what you want to do and plan for it. Like, actually take the time to be intentional about what you want to do and decide if what you're going to do requires any outside assistance. Like, do you need to partner with a friend or two or a family member to help you do X, Y, and Z? And if you don't, that's that's cool too. But know what goes into it. Um, I spend an unusual amount of time researching stuff. So the amount of information that I was able to take the people to then help me, it saved them time. So that's the other thing. Do your own research. So when you go to have those conversations with people, it's not it's not you just like not knowing any of the other like foundational stuff, and then be open to the information that they give you because sometimes the thing that you've been planning for is a terrible idea, and the people who know best will tell you about it. But if you're like stubborn and like just I this is what I want to do, and you like go against all information, which I guess sometimes I do, but not in this case. This this case I definitely listen to the people who know best. Be open to learning and be intentional. I guess that's what it boils down to.
SPEAKER_03Um, I am so grateful that you said yes and that you came on our podcast today because your voice and your experience are super important. So thank you. I really enjoyed this conversation. And to you, um, viewing audience, I'm gonna ask you to please like, watch, subscribe, and share. And if you have the opportunity to support someone who is becoming a new landowner, um, or if you are excited yourself about becoming a new landowner, one right, um, reach out to me. I'll see if I can connect you. If you want a land reading, um, and remember, remember, remember, remember when you leave your house today, try and see if you see a farmer, a farm stand, pick up some seeds so you and your kids could plant together. Because we are all in this and we're moving towards liberation. Thank you.
