Mortal Kombat 2 and Mixtape

In this bonus episode, Chris and Peter step away from Mainframe for a while to talk about the Mortal Kombat II movie and the nostalgic narrative game Mixtape. The discussion around Mortal Kombat leads them back to their earliest memories of the series - arcades, over-the-top fatalities, and the cultural panic around videogame violence in the 90s.

Meanwhile, Mixtape sends the conversation in a more reflective direction, as they talk about the people, places, and moments that quietly disappear over time. Along the way, they revisit the music, technology, and atmosphere of growing up in the 90s, from mixtapes and CDs to 80s movies and the feeling of discovering media before the internet flattened everything into algorithms.

It’s part gaming discussion, part nostalgia trip, and part meditation on memory, complete with fatalities, feelings, and far too much reminiscing about obsolete technology.

Noobs by C.G. Regan

Cover Art by Charlotte Regan

Music by Peter Regan

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:16

It's like a special episode because of game related things came out. Game related things hit like a game came out that we both played, so thought we'd talk about that.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

That's very game that's very game related.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Very game related, but first I thought sort of doing a podcast about game-related media and films and stuff, and then Mortal Kombat 2 came out, so and we both went to see that. So I thought we should talk about Mortal Kombat 2. The problem is it was a week ago. I've already forgotten the film Mortal Kombat 2. Um, which maybe is all I need to say about Mortal Kombat 2. I guess to kick off, what is your relationship with to the Mortal Kombat franchise?

SPEAKER_00 0:57

What is my relationship to the Mortal Kombat franchise?

SPEAKER_02 1:00

I think it's probably similar to mine.

SPEAKER_00 1:02

Probably. Is this in historically in the sense of I always feel like historically it was either you were Street Fighter or Mortal Kombat? I'm not very good.

SPEAKER_02 1:15

Spectrum vs. Commodore.

SPEAKER_00 1:16

Yeah, like Rolling Stones versus the Beatles.

SPEAKER_02 1:18

Xbox versus PlayStation. Street Fighter versus Mortal Kombat. I guess so. And that makes sense though. It does make sense. I mean the two films are coming out this year. Then at the was it at the Game Awards? I can't remember Game Awards or some one of the Jeff Keeley shows where they did the big Street Fighter cast reveal and then they all came on stage and then one of them was like Mortal Kombat 2 cast didn't come, did they?

SPEAKER_00 1:40

Yeah, well that's so I always presumed it was that, but then I've not been although we had Street Fighter 2 on the Amiga.

SPEAKER_02 1:46

We had Street Fighter 2 on the Amiga. So I feel like we were fairly we were there fairly early for Street Fighter 2 because that was uh that was like at peak Street Fighter 2 times. And we saw Did we see the first I wonder about Street Fighter now? Did we see the first Street Fighter movie at the cinema? I feel like I did.

SPEAKER_00 2:01

Probably.

SPEAKER_02 2:01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:02

We did go and see a lot. I probably saw the first Mortal Kombat at the cinema.

SPEAKER_02 2:07

I can't remember. I remember seeing the second one at the cinema.

SPEAKER_00 2:10

I remember seeing the second one at the cinema.

SPEAKER_02 2:12

But I can't remember if I saw the first one on at the cinema. I have to have the 91.

SPEAKER_00 2:23

Are we just guessing dates?

SPEAKER_02 2:24

No, I think it's I'm gonna say 94, which is my favourite year.

SPEAKER_00 2:28

I've got to bypass Mortal Kombat 1. Because now there's two Mortal Kombat 1s.

SPEAKER_02 2:35

95. Okay, Wikipedia. So Mortal Kombat 1 is 95. Yeah, possibly because I think it was a 15, so potentially we could have seen it. I could have seen it at the cinema, but I don't know if I did or not. I really don't remember. I feel like I might have done, but it was also that was peak, that was my peak cinema snob phase, where I would I only really like black and white and foreign films. So I don't know whether if my friends wanted to go, I might have been no, we're not going to see Mortal Kombat. That'd be ridiculous.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

Because it's not black and white or it's not black and white or foreign.

SPEAKER_02 3:08

But then I remember liking it when I did see it.

SPEAKER_00 3:10

So maybe I didn't, maybe I just I had it on VHS. So maybe I just owned it on VHS. Yeah, maybe that maybe that was the first time I saw it because I would have been slightly underage. Anyway, we're massively what was the question?

SPEAKER_02 3:24

What is your relationship?

SPEAKER_00 3:26

How am I related to it?

SPEAKER_02 3:27

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 3:28

I find it's my problem with Mortal Kombat. It's problems problem problematic. I think I was always aware of it. I think I was probably too young to be fully into the violence hype, but still aware that oh, there's this game where you can punch people and some blood comes out.

SPEAKER_02 3:44

Yes, I guess we can't underestimate it seems weird now, but that was like a massive deal. Yeah. Because I think you look back at Mortal Kombat 1, and even though it's violent, you're like it's all sort of pixelated and and sort of but it's it's it's hard to imagine because not only was it violent, it was like digitised people, so they were like real photo real people to a degree, as much as you could do that. So you had that plus yeah, ripping people people's heads off, and and also that the violence was sort of the point that that the point of it was to get a fatality, which I could never do because you had to press like a million pounds.

SPEAKER_00 4:16

Well, that was the was the thing, it's like we will have a gimmick with a fatality. It's when games make you learn, I don't like learning games. I've never been good at sort of oh, this is how you play beatabs and you have to learn down now. Down toward back, and X is fireball.

SPEAKER_02 4:31

No.

SPEAKER_00 4:32

So it just saying now you get to do a cool fatality, it was like, well, I'll do an uppercut and then be annoyed that I've not I've not seen a massive move.

SPEAKER_02 4:41

Yeah, because I don't think I ever finished like my favourite was always Tekken because that seemed I think I don't know why, whether it was just easier, but Tekken on PS1, it was like doable and I could get to the end. But I remember completing Tekken with all the characters because that unlocked all the extra characters, and you get a little bit of an ending. And the same with Tekken too, but I don't like Street Fighter never did that because it was too hard. I think I completed it once, maybe, but like I remember it being difficult and um and definitely not Mortal Kombat. Like, I mean I don't think we ever owned it though either.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

No, I think that's the other thing we had we came late to console.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

Yeah, so I don't know what was almost it's Snares Mega Drive, both, yeah, but it would have been, I guess. So yeah, yeah, we we got those quite late. I don't know if it was on the Amiga, it probably was, but I don't remember playing in our friends' houses. It's one of those. I remember it playing it in the arcade. I remember the first time I might have told this story in this podcast or another podcast, but like my first experience in Mortal Kombat was seeing it in an arcade. I was like, Oh, I want to have a go. I was with I think it was with Dad, you were probably there as well. But uh I mean going to have a go, and this guy came over who in my memory is was like 40, but was probably like 20, yeah, and was like, Oh, can I can I play with you? And I was like, Fine, yeah. And I think I can't remember it was like Luke, quite I think I was Liu Kang and he was Scorpion all the other way around, but he beat me and then and then ripped my head off. Like did the fatality where he you ripped your head off out of it with your spine dangly. I remember thinking that that was quite cool, even though it was kind of like a good because that could have gone wrong. Like if I did that to one of my kids now, if my two of my kids to arcade and was like, here, play this, and then someone else came and just beat them straight away on the first go and then ripped their head off, they would be upset, probably. Whereas at the time I remember thinking it was cool. I was like, Whoa, that guy's so good at Mortal Kombat, he's like the he's like Amelia West of his in Bishop of Battle with Mortal Kombat. So I thought it was cool, but that was a but but I was also I think it cemented the idea that I couldn't do it, and so I I never really had to wanted to revisit Mortal Kombat, and then I've owned it, I think I owned the trilogy on like the original trilogy on Xbox, and then I think I've now got it on PC, but I just never can't do it. No, so because I've I can do the punching where you do the quick punching and the uppercuts, and that's all I do. And if if that's not working, then I'm stuck.

SPEAKER_00 7:09

I think I owned it on one of those devices that you plugged into the back of your TV.

SPEAKER_02 7:16

I think I've got that. I think I nicked it.

SPEAKER_00 7:18

So you now own it on that device. I think as you said though, I think I agree. I think after we saw it, most most of my knowledge and experience comes from that the Mortal Kombat DC game.

SPEAKER_02 7:29

Yes, that one I did play all the way through because that had a good story or a story.

SPEAKER_00 7:33

A story where Mortal Kombat came to fight Batman.

SPEAKER_02 7:36

Yeah, I can't even remember it now. I mean, it's always about Outworld, isn't it? It's always like what's outworld and it's not a good thing. Outworld's coming, you've got to stop Outworld.

SPEAKER_00 7:46

We've got no champions, Outworld, Kano.

SPEAKER_02 7:48

Kano.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

I wrote some notes because I thought I'd better write some notes.

SPEAKER_02 7:51

Cool.

SPEAKER_00 7:52

Because I was trying to remember what happened in Mortal Kombat, and I thought I do I'll do what good and bad and good, Carl Urban was in it.

SPEAKER_02 7:59

I think Carl Urban's one of those people who I just like him as a person, so if he's in something that elevates it. Because I don't know, I really like the idea of Carl Urban in this. I don't know if it was the best choice.

SPEAKER_00 8:12

I think it was slightly ironic that Carl Urban is playing a failed action hero.

SPEAKER_02 8:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 8:20

And apologies to people's names, but then he has to team up with a team of Earth's fighters, none of which I recognise and only think they've been in the first Mortal Kombat.

SPEAKER_02 8:31

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 8:31

So it seemed a bit like it's odd that the star of your film is actually more famous than your actual existing cast.

SPEAKER_02 8:38

Well, I think it was good like I do think it was good good casting.

SPEAKER_00 8:42

In a world where they could have got Jean-Claude Van Damme, they could be.

SPEAKER_02 8:45

I don't know if you can now. I think if they'd done it ten years ago, maybe.

SPEAKER_00 8:48

I'm not saying he'd be able to do well, he could do as much as Carl Urban did. I think if you do other points.

SPEAKER_02 8:53

Probably. Yeah. I mean, I think if you did it expendables two time, he'd be okay.

SPEAKER_00 8:58

I couldn't think of any, but I'm sure there's other there must be other action-y hero-y people.

SPEAKER_02 9:03

I think it's a weird time because they're all a bit too old. Like you could probably do a Gary Daniels or you could do a Scott Adkins, but like no one really knows who they are. Because we've because the other other ones that like, yeah, Stallone's too old or not really right either. Van Damme, you got Van Damme. Basically, you have to go through the expendables. And I don't know, you know, the the character of Johnny Cage was based on Van Damme, so it's sort of that's that's the one that makes the most sense. So I think you kind of do have to do what they did. My sort of objection, like I do really and I do think Carl Urban's really good in it. I think it wasn't I don't think the script was good enough. No, it's good, but I don't think it was funny enough. Like, I think what you want with Carl Urban, possibly since the boys, but also because of like like the thing is because he's funny, that's the thing. Like, even in Star Trek, the reason he kind of elevates Star Trek is because he's funny as well as sort of being cool. So I feel like I wanted it, and he is funny, and Johnny Cage is because you're like, oh yeah, Johnny Cage is gonna be like, oh, what's going on? What's all this and swearing and stuff. But I kind of wanted those lines to be funnier and him to be a bit more of a dick, I think. Yeah. I mean, you know, and I have the redemption arc and not be a dick at the end, but like I felt like it just wasn't quite there with that. Like it felt like a bit of a waste to me. Because I mean it doesn't you don't notice that I well I didn't because I never noticed things. You just I just kind of assume he's not doing all the fighting. I don't know, I don't know for sure, but because I know that Carl Urban is not a like he's not is not a sort of fighting man necessarily these days. I mean I don't know how old he is, I'm guessing he's older than us, but he might be our age, I don't know. He must be older than us.

SPEAKER_00 10:38

But that is a there's a good point because that was my other issue in hindsight. I don't think any of the fights were that interesting.

SPEAKER_02 10:44

I think the one really good fight was the Liu Kang Kung Lao. Is that the guy with the hat?

SPEAKER_03 10:50

Yes, hat man.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

I thought that fight was was really good, and I think this is the thing, is that I think where they haven't cast people with names, is is it's sort of old school in a way. I think I don't I don't know this for sure, I should have looked it up really, but it seemed like those two actors could do the fighting, and then that fight felt like a really epic because you can tell the difference when you can see the actual moves and stuff, and it's fluid, and you have long takes. If you've got long takes with people doing martial arts, then you're like, Okay, well, these people can actually fight. I mean, hard to tell these days because of CGI and stuff, but and yeah, that there's like magic and stuff in that fight. But I did think that that fight was really good, like a stand out sort of separate because the rest were all kind of a bit gimmicky, I thought.

SPEAKER_00 11:30

Well, that's the thing, and then like my other thing is like the fact that Shao Kahn's in was in half the fights, and it's like, well, sort of a writing issue is like if you put him in, he's not gonna die. No, no, yeah, because like your first fights with the big boss man, it's like, well, where's this gonna go?

SPEAKER_02 11:45

Yeah, because they do they do the thing with with Cole, who's the character from the first film character they made up, and then he turns up, and then in this film you don't see his wife and child, but he keeps talking about his wife and child, and you just think, hmm, this is suspicious, and then he fights like Shao Kahn in like the first straight away. It's like, okay, I know where this is going. I mean sort of I don't know, I feel bad for the actor in a way. It's like, well, we could do a sequel, but it seemed like a good sport.

SPEAKER_00 12:12

Yeah, it's it's an odd one. It sort of made me want to watch the 95 one again, though. Yeah, no, because I remember really liking that and liking the fights.

SPEAKER_02 12:21

I mean, the what that one does, which I think is clever, is it just does Enter the Dragon, it just goes, Yeah, there's a tournament on this island, everyone go to this tournament and they all just turn up and then that's then you're off. Whereas I think because what did did you like the first of this of the new Immortal Combat Combat films?

SPEAKER_00 12:39

I can remember that even less because I didn't re-watch it.

SPEAKER_02 12:42

I remember thinking it was okay and then I rewatched it, and that's got a lot of issues, I think. Partly because nothing happens, like they don't even really get to Mortal Kombat in that one, which is what this one is, but so it's all just like prep for a thing that never happens. But also they do this weird thing where they're the which they do a bit in this one, but they don't I think they realised it was about because they don't go on about it as much. But in the first one, it's all about people finding the powers, so they're chosen for Mortal Kombat, and then they they kind of have to normally by getting angry because that's how you get powers and everything, yeah, but they sort of like have to discover their powers and but then some of the powers are like Jax getting metal arms and some of them are Sonia shooting rings out of a pink thing. I don't it's sort of not there's none there's no kind of logic to it. It's not like this person does this, so therefore they will have this power. It's just like well, except that Jax has no arms. So I think the interesting thing, uh and I do think the mortal I think the reason part of the reason I like the Mortal Kombat franchise, despite not really playing the games, is I think the characters are quite interesting. Like they're all quite diverse and weird, and you know, you've got weird alien creatures and all all kinds of things. And I like the idea of like looking at someone like Jax and going, I wonder how he lost his arms. I wonder maybe it was in a fight with Scorpion. I like the sort of not Scorpion Sub-Zero. I like but uh because I was thinking, I like the kind of from the first one the Scorpion Sub-Zero plot's probably the most interesting bit, but then like the first one has got the weird bit where they go, they just arbitrarily decide who's gonna fight who. Whereas this one is much more like straight video game, like there's a tournament, there's a score in the sky, yeah. Four two scores. You'll get randomly picked, and you're like, oh, and it that's kind of that's enjoyable to watch, I think. Because you're like, oh, who's gonna get picked and what's gonna happen? It's just when the plot is when the plot happens, that's when it kind of is less enjoyable, like when at the end where Katana switches sides, it's just sort of like it's made a mockery of the whole of Mortal Kombat if you could just do that.

SPEAKER_00 14:36

Oh that's yeah, because her her hit points changed side. I didn't think about it.

SPEAKER_02 14:41

You think well anyone could then Shao Kog can just go, well I changed sides then.

SPEAKER_00 14:45

Yeah. And then I win again. That would do then you'd get Earth Realm. That's Mortal Kombat.

SPEAKER_02 14:52

Yeah, I the thing is though, I did enjoy it. I thought it was fun and it reminded me of the kind of throwaway films that you don't get so much anymore. Like it was funny, like it was funny enough, it wasn't like laugh out loud funny, but it was sort of funny enough and light hearted and silly, and I was quite happy watching it for two hours or whatever it was.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

I still think it should have the music every five minutes.

SPEAKER_02 15:12

It should, it doesn't have enough of the music. They put a lot of the music in the trailer. So that's that's Mortal Kombat 2. I reckon we'll probably cover the other Mortal Kombats at some point in more detail. Because I think I think do you think it's interesting. So maybe this is a teaser for that.

SPEAKER_00 15:25

Maybe not all of them, maybe just the 95.

SPEAKER_02 15:27

The sequel to the 95. And the TV series, oh that we could do like a whole season on the TV series. Don't even think you can see anywhere. Yeah. I remember that being not good, but it was like a weird thing to watch like really late at night. Yeah, I don't think I saw any of them. Yeah, so yeah, we'll cover that later. Look forward to that one. Spend a year watching the Mortal Kombat series. Don't know how many seasons or what. Anyway, good. So that's Mortal Kombat 2. Yeah, let's move on. Let's move on. Let's cover all the gaming activities. So Mixtape came out and replayed it, and this feels topical because it came out recently, but the thing they did, which I think is the best thing about mixtape, mixtape is a game everyone's talking about. Yeah. Although if you're not in the gaming world, I mean I doubt that anyone listening to this isn't in gaming. I was talking to someone, I just assumed because it's so been so prevalent in gaming news that everyone knew about it, and then I was talking to someone who's not who's a bit of a gamer, but not like an obsessive gamer, and they had no idea what I was talking about. I ended up explaining the whole plot for some reason. But I imagine most people, if they're all this, they just I don't know where I'm going with this. I do know what mixtafe is. Anyway, it came out, and I think one of the best things they did was they priced it very reasonably. So normally I'm very reluctant normally to be I'm not normally a day one purchase person, but with this I was like, Oh, it's reasonably priced, I will buy it straight away.

SPEAKER_00 16:49

There's a reason it was reasonably priced.

SPEAKER_02 16:51

It's very short, it's very short, which is the other good thing about it because I don't have time to play games these days. So to being able to finish, I played it over two sittings in the end. I did one evening and then then the next day I shouldn't know three maybe three but over a weekend, basically. I played it over a weekend. Was it consecutive? Pretty much. It was the Saturday night I started it, and then the Sunday night, Sunday during the day, I carried on, and then I maybe had a bit of a break before the end. Yeah, that that was it. This is not interesting. It was three sessions over a weekend.

SPEAKER_00 17:22

But I think there is a reason why I asked because I didn't and I did the thing that I always do where I wanted to try and I was like, I'm gonna because it is about music, it's about a girl who likes music and has curated a mixtape to listen to with her friends as they spend the last nights of high school, anyway.

SPEAKER_02 17:43

It's high school because high school goes up to 18 in in America, so they're older than our high school.

SPEAKER_00 17:49

The concept is there's good music and a story.

SPEAKER_02 17:51

That's all you need to know. Yeah, it's like well, this the stakes are that like as well I started with my friend the other day, the but like that they they were gonna go on this road trip and then and then Stacey, the main character, decided she was gonna go to New York instead. So it's become they've kind of had this last night kind of forced on them because it wasn't supposed to be she was true, they were all supposed to be doing this other thing, and now she's kind of ruined it. So there's a bit of like underlying resentment with her two friends that kind of carries through and leads to to drama.

SPEAKER_00 18:19

But then I sort of I did that thing where you set up gaming parameters because I was like, I'm gonna play this with headphones.

SPEAKER_02 18:25

I played it with headphones, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:27

But then it meant every time I had to play it out to get the headphones out, and then that's because they're in a cupboard hidden away, and then you put it on and then you've only got ten minutes, so you end up playing 20 minutes of it. So I ended up playing it, and then I had like a five-day gap between sessions. So I was interested because I think that has affected my opinion of it.

SPEAKER_02 18:48

Positively or negatively?

SPEAKER_00 18:50

Negatively. So what what's been interesting about it is watching all the internet blow up about whether they like it. Seems to be quite oh, what's the phrase? It's like a litmus test. People seem to either really hate it or love it. Yeah. Well what kicked it off. Well that seems to be it. There just seems to be two two facts. Yeah, well, it's because the internet, so there's only ever I think someone said the internet, the internet did the internet on it.

SPEAKER_02 19:16

And you can't be like, oh, I like this bit but not this bit. But what kicked it off was a prominent video game website gave it 10 out of 10. As a lot of and it got generally 10 out of 10s across the board, but this one with one review in particular that seems to have wound people up. So all the gamer people, like the people who play Fortnite and online games and Call of Duty, like, but it's not a game. You don't understand, there's no gameplay in it. You know, and it does raise interesting questions about what is a game. I would argue that Fortnite is not a game.

SPEAKER_00 19:46

That's what that's what I find quite interesting for anyone who doesn't I'm trying not to over-explain it, but I feel like there needs to be explanation. Like it at its core, it is an interactive story. There is a story that plays out, and there are what I would describe a series of mini-games.

SPEAKER_02 20:02

Yes.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

But you can't I think the issue was is there aren't stakes and you don't really need skill in the games.

SPEAKER_02 20:09

No, you can't lose the mini games, yeah. They just sort of happen, and then you kind of decide when to stop on a lot of them. Like either they're traveling somewhere or the ones that like the throwing rocks where you can just decide, okay, I've had enough of throwing rocks now. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:22

And I think that's what riled people up.

SPEAKER_02 20:24

But it's weird in to me, I find well, I understand why, because it crossed over into the mainstream because it had these reviews, and it's Anna Purna who are distributing it, who are a big company, so then you get all the conspiracy theories like, oh, it's because they've got loads of money and they're by rich people and and and all ridiculous stuff. Because that not none none of the background stuff ever matters. All that ever matters is how you as an individual felt about playing a game. And I thought so, yeah, I I but it's where there were so many examples. No one like a similar game recently, which I did find more of a problem with the amount of gameplay, was uh dispatch superhero cartoony game, which I I liked, but I was like, This is watching a Netflix series where I occasionally have to press a button, and the game but I think what annoyed me about that is the gameplay bits could really mess up, but it didn't really feel like it had major consequences. But like like the the best example is right at the end where it's all kicking off. I did the gameplay bit, really badly messed it up because like I never really I just I just made a few mistakes, completely messed it up, and one but it the game doesn't let you try again because it's not really bothered about the game, it was just like bothered about telling the story, so we're just kind of stuck with this, and then you kind of get into the end sequence and it's like, oh, we did it. I'm like, Yeah, but I did really badly. It sort of got I think it I feel like that game got the balance wrong. In a way, there was more gameplay, but it was of less consequence, and it just kind of it felt like a a cartoon with a with a game bit tacked on because the game's quite different as well. Whereas with mixtape, I think because it's all got so Fully integrated that didn't ever feel like oh now I'm now I'm making me play a game or now I'm watching a film. Like it felt like part of the all part of the same experience. Yeah. Also, visual novels exist.

SPEAKER_00 22:10

No, well, this is the thing. I like I think I think we had a conversation before. I think it also ties into like a lot of my issues don't really have anything to do with the game play. I think my only big issue with the gameplay is I do wish I sort of wish there was more consequences. Not necessarily skill-based stuff, but just if you don't think like if it was a bit more of the telltale, I don't want to bring the telltale games in.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

But yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:39

If if there was a bit more of a decision path tree, whatever you call it.

SPEAKER_02 22:43

Yeah, like I guess you've been compared to Life is Strange a lot, but Life is Strange has more consequences from the decision.

SPEAKER_00 22:49

I just want at some point to go, Jeff will remember that.

SPEAKER_02 22:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 22:52

And you go, Oh, I've said the wrong thing. Just just to add a bit more, because there was a lot of sort of wandering around sort of rooms and trying to work out okay, what can I click on? What's going to be the next trigger? Have I done everything? Can I go now to the next area?

SPEAKER_02 23:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:06

Um, but yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:07

Yeah, well, I think ultimately I think they weren't really interested in that sort of it was to me it this was coming from a place of storytelling rather than interactivity, which I I I mean I I don't like I don't think there's an answer because I think there's there's yeah, it does depend on your perception of I mean for me it seemed like because I think the key texts like the key things to this, the key thing to drawing on, or Ferris Bueller, there's like a clear that's possibly a spoiler, but like there's one of the characters there's a few Ferris Bueller moments, but there's one particular character you're like, oh yeah, it's Ferris Bueller, and then but then there's Dazed and Confused, because that's the sort of last night of high school big party thing, High Fidelity, because you've got the talking to camera about the music. I feel like there's another film that I'm missing that it's sort of referencing. I think I've write all these down at one point, but like those are sort of like and I think once I kind of settled into that was like oh it's sort of a game mashing together all these film references and stuff, and and I like the music as well. I thought I thought it was a good mixtape. Like I've I then found a playlist and listened to the mixtape a lot.

SPEAKER_00 24:15

I did and I didn't. Hmm. It's strange because it feels like because I keep thinking, oh, because it was all sort of early 90s grunge stuff, but then it wasn't. Like the street cute like Smashing Pumpkin and Silver Chair were on there.

SPEAKER_02 24:28

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 24:29

But then a lot of it is earlier. I think I would have liked some more of it to be a bit more upbeat. There was a lot of sort of lo-fi atmospheric yeah, we had a Porter's head song.

SPEAKER_02 24:40

I like Portis Head. Joy Division, that was good.

SPEAKER_00 24:43

Well, it's like Joy Division, it had the cure and it had Portis Head, and it was sort of very much I mean maybe it does depend on how much you like those. Well, this is the thing, so I think depending on your scale of liking it, I think it's interesting because I think because they gave it 10 out of 10, I think there are a lot of tick boxes to hit. Like I think if you'd given it to a 10-year-old, they wouldn't care.

SPEAKER_02 25:06

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:06

And they'd give it two out of ten. But if you give it to someone of a certain age, where like this is the thing, because I was thinking about it, it's like, oh, we what was it like when we sort of finished high school or finished college? It's like, I don't think we ever did anything. Like it always seems to be an American thing.

SPEAKER_02 25:22

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:22

And I think that's mainly due to weather, because mostly over here it rains.

SPEAKER_02 25:27

But it's an Australian game. This is the thing, is it is it's not like they were calling for on sort of I I think there's two sides to it. I think there is the side where it's it's referencing films, so that's the sort of American bit because it's referencing American sort of high school films and high reality, but like it's but I did I mean it worked with on me. Like I I just found playing it, it did make me think of the time. I don't really remember the last day of high school. I remember the last day of college because I remember we got very drunk too early in the day, and there was just loads of us sat outside Hamley Museum, which was weird because that was the only place we could go to the toilet. It wasn't a great time, but it was a nice memory. I don't know, sort of not that's the thing, none of these in the in the moment, and in the moment in the game, I think that's the part that they get right. It's not that much fun, and there's all this drama and kind of underlying tension, and and uh and you know, like her plan to go to New York is pr I quite I liked that because it's the kind of things I used to think, like oh, I'll just go to this thing and and I'll meet this person and and and they'll sort everything out. I that that felt very real, like that's a very teenage thing way of thinking, and and you think, yeah, that probably isn't gonna work. Maybe it would will will work out, but that doesn't matter, it's just that she's decided to move on in this particular particular way. And I also think I mean we both left as well, like we both left our town, like um like Slater in this is the character who's staying, and I think there is something kind of whether you have a big last night party or not, there is still something that resonates about oh, actually I'm gonna leave this place, and and it's full of like showing you how sort of like idyllic and pretty this place that they live is, this this fictional place, and that she's leaving behind. I think that's sort of interesting as well. And it made me think about friends that I haven't spoken to in years, and I did find that moment at the end incredibly emotional because she's sort of saying goodbye to someone you think, yeah, I've done that so many times. And you not just even school, like what jobs have left and leaving uni and like even moving towns and things, but you go, There's people you sort of are never gonna see again. Well, you don't know that you're never gonna see them, and that's the I think that's the thing looking back is you go, she doesn't know that now, but she probably isn't gonna see him again. Well, that's a depressing way of looking at it, but she may not. But I think I think what I think what you're right, I think it works better because then the mu because then the music, the way the music ties into that is it does and yeah, I don't I think part of it like Porter's Head for me, that's a band I really liked, and that's a band I listened to a lot of uni, so when the Porter's head song comes on that, I mean I'm immediately back at uni. Smashing pumpkin's a bit like that as well. But then those I didn't recognise, but there is the fact that moments in your life are tied to music, particularly when you're younger. I think that's why it works. But I think you're probably right that it works on old people.

SPEAKER_00 28:18

Yeah. Well, that's the thing. I have very fond memories of we sort of again, we didn't we always manage to get around people's houses, but there'd be lots of sort of staying up late watching MTV2.

SPEAKER_02 28:29

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:30

And especially MTV2 Eclectic.

SPEAKER_02 28:33

I don't remember MTV2 eclectic.

SPEAKER_00 28:35

M TV2 Eclectic was very late.

SPEAKER_02 28:37

That was probab was that was that when you were at school or or uh uni?

SPEAKER_00 28:40

It probably was would have been college.

SPEAKER_02 28:42

Because I was MTV sure we had when I was at uni, but that yeah, I don't remember MTV.

SPEAKER_00 28:46

Uni was more lots of films, like we did lots of film knocks and stuff at uni. Yeah, college and would have been and it's mainly probably only it's those the long summers between the two.

SPEAKER_02 28:57

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 28:57

Post GCSE, pre-college, A-level, pre-uni, where you just it is that thing where summers did feel like a long time.

SPEAKER_02 29:04

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:06

Which I think is I think that's for me, that's why I was like, Oh, I wish there was sort of some more heavier stuff, because my memory going back is like MTV2. That's like we went to call it when was that? Sort of early 2000s.

SPEAKER_02 29:22

Yes, yeah, things going everywhere.

SPEAKER_00 29:25

And then that all died down and no one cares anymore.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

I think people care again.

SPEAKER_00 29:28

So I think a lot so that's so that to me, when I look back at that stuff, that's kind of the soundtrack and it was like, oh, this isn't that yeah.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

I don't I don't know if there's been a kind of 90s nostalgia thing, early 2000s, for the for the kind of new metal era. I've heard people talk about wanting to do it, but uh I don't think I think everyone well they generally I don't believe this, but I think generally people look back at that time with a bit of embarrassment. And I think I don't and I think there's enough of an audience to be like you could make something really cool about the sort of scene in that sort of time. Yeah, I'm trying to think if there's if there's been any films or anything. I'd like there's old ones that kind of go there a bit, but I don't think anything's really captured the uh yeah. But that's different. I mean, that's the thing, is when's this set? This is is this set in the nineties?

SPEAKER_00 30:17

It's set in the nineties.

SPEAKER_02 30:18

Yeah, it must be because it's got sort of nineties musicians in, but they've not got phones or well that well that's the thing, and they've got like rubbish tech, like she's using a CD player.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

Like that was sort of a kept going about tapes, but she's got a C D player. It did annoy me that she had a C D player and she's jumping around. It's like that would not be that would not be playing.

SPEAKER_01 30:37

Yeah, yeah. If she went skateboarding with a C D player, that would be skipping around all over the place.

SPEAKER_02 30:42

Yeah, yeah, wouldn't it would have been better in a way with a walk room. But I can I can see why again it's not easy, but like if you'd but if you'd given her a a sort of tape thing, it would have felt more 80s, I guess.

SPEAKER_00 30:52

I do think the timing was also a bit odd. Like one of the things that threw me. So this is why I was sort of asking about how long you played it over because I had a longer because I think I think I've ever got this much time. I do think if you did it in one whole sitting and it treated it like an interactive story film one go, it might work more because you're then in and out of the the games.

SPEAKER_01 31:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:15

But one of the issues I had is I couldn't work out it's it's people being young and reminiscing about 20 minutes ago. Like there was a lot of there's a really good bit, I won't go into too much detail, but there's a really good bit where you play one of the flashbacks and you're taking photos on this weird photo. It's like it's like a weird digital camera, but it's like taking it on a game with colour. And you can take photos, and in the game, I probably didn't take as many as I should have done because I was wandering around. But then later on, like in the next section, you can pick up that and you skip through and you can look at all the photos you take.

SPEAKER_02 31:47

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:48

But the problem is a lot of the flashbacks look as though because the characters kind of look the same, it literally looked like like I would have liked it if it was like I would have liked it if it was like now and there were a bunch of 40-year-olds reminiscing about 30 years ago, and then you can see a big difference of like, oh, that's that was 30 years ago because they were all dressed different and had different hair. Whereas a lot of this was like like to me, it could have been they could have just been doing it all that day. Yeah. But I think because I kept going back sort of two days later, play it, I'd come in and try and it was like, actually, am I in a am I in a flashback or am I?

SPEAKER_02 32:23

I can see that. I can see that or is this modern modern? Yeah, yeah. I mean, I think it does work in in a short one or two sittings. I mean, I think partly because it's like a film, and but yeah, partly probably the flashbacks do work a bit better, but and I think also you get that sense of like this is one night. Like that thing of like one night being important. It don't think you get have when you're old. I think that sort of I remember sort of going to parties and things, and I remember doing the how are we gonna get beer, but also just the kind of this is gonna be like an amazing night, or is it I mean and you know it never was particularly but the expectation and the anticipation for that. Like I was almost disappointed that they had the spoiler, but that that they actually get to the party at the end because I kind of thought I assumed that that wasn't going to be the point that they were not gonna get to the party, or or you would just you know roll credits on the party because the party was kind of as rubbish as as parties are it was uh because there's no there's no way you can live up. That's the whole point, really. There's no way you can live up to that expectation, that anticipation. So you kind of inevitably it's just a lot of drunk people in a field.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

It was sort of Which is quite good because that's that's the that that was the the atmosphere they pulled off as you're wandering around with a camcorder. Like there was a bit when I was like, I don't know where I'm supposed to go.

SPEAKER_02 33:44

Yeah, yeah, you've lost all your friends, don't know any of these people.

SPEAKER_00 33:49

But there are some cool, like some of the mini games are quite good and enjoyable, even though they're just mini-games. I spent far too long, again, trying not to spoil things, but I spent far too long painting the cabin door.

SPEAKER_02 34:00

I spent a long time painting the cabin door, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:03

But I liked that it was done quite clever because in the future it's sort of covered up in a tarp.

SPEAKER_02 34:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:09

So you can't and then you flash back to when you painted it, but then when you later go in the cabin, it's nice that it was my painted door.

SPEAKER_02 34:18

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:19

Because I didn't a silly picture on it. I liked going in the video shop being drunk.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

That was good, yeah. Yeah, I like looking at the different videos.

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:29

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 34:30

And then the skateboarding levels were good.

SPEAKER_02 34:32

Yeah, the skateboarding was good. Yeah, I think the thing that it can do that that films can't do is because you can have a film like Dayton Confused with a great soundtrack, but most of the time in a film, you're not gonna play the whole song. Like you'll sort of they'll play an edited version of the song.

SPEAKER_00 34:47

It was very clever with the songs, actually. It was very clever. This is rather sounds miserable. It was very clever with the songs because they clearly were looping them.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

Yes, but it just wasn't obvious.

SPEAKER_00 34:57

Yeah, because there were bits when I was like, I'll wait for this song to finish. And it's like the song's about ten minutes long. I don't quite see it. Okay, they've looped it somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 35:05

Yeah, yeah. But I think that was that's cool, you get to really know in a in a you know, being being a this is an old man statement, but it's you know, we don't have to listen to whole songs anymore. Like you can skip, you don't have to like listen to albums, you sort of you don't very rarely have to listen to something that you're to a whole song that you maybe wouldn't have chosen to listen to. I think that's my point. Whereas in this, it's like you've chosen this song, and now you're gonna have to listen to it because you've got to play through the skateboarding bit, so you're gonna get the whole song whether whether you want to or not. And I think that's sort of um there's something cool about that because it did make me appreciate the songs. If you just said here are these songs, and given me that playlist before playing the game, on its own, I'd just be like, Oh, some of these are okay, and some of them are not too bothered. But it does recontextualise those songs and go, here they are in this moment, and that's good. So I liked it.

SPEAKER_00 35:59

I no, I liked it. I think I like even though I was critical, and there's some bits that I think didn't work, and some bits that would, I think actually I think it's it is more I I don't want to make it more important than it is, but I think it's one of those games that I think it says a lot about the person playing it, and not in a negative way, if it doesn't resonate fair enough, go play something else, go play Fortnite, that's fine. But I think for the people that do, I think it is like in more ways than Life is Strange because she has magic powers. Like it is just we've all had last night somewhere, we've all wanted to do stuff, we've all rocked out in a car.

SPEAKER_01 36:39

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:41

There are moments that if you just if you just go with it and go, I'm gonna play a game and feel something, it is actually it's it's really good. Yeah, I think it is deserving of the ten.

SPEAKER_02 36:53

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 36:53

Depending on whether you sort of just go with it.

SPEAKER_02 36:57

It is one of those games there if people are if someone was like like a lot of people in my life, were like, Oh, I don't really like video games, I'd be like, Well, and they would never you'd never be able to convince someone who didn't like video games to play a game. You sort of think this is what you're missing out on. Yeah. Yes, I understand that you may not like Fortnite, but like there is this as well.

SPEAKER_00 37:17

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:18

So uh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Also fan today, but I've not I was at work, so I couldn't do it properly. But if you go on the mixtape website, I'm not endorsed by mixtape to say this, but I thought it was interesting. There is a link where you can make your own mixtape. Oh, okay. So there's like a little game on there where I don't know what it's linked to, I don't know if it's linked to Spotify, but you can sort of write the title of your mixtape and then choose the tracks. And they've just got I don't think it's hundreds, but I think it then there's like loads where people have done it, so you can just access everyone else's mixtapes and sort of put together.

SPEAKER_02 37:52

Yeah, that's cool.

SPEAKER_00 37:53

I kept meaning to have a look and see what random mixtapes people have put together. Yeah. And then yeah, there's like a search function, you say I type of this. And that's why I don't know if it what it's tied to because it it doesn't seem to have lots of music.

SPEAKER_02 38:05

So it's obviously yeah, thinking about mixtapes, there's a bit where you have to rewind a cassette with a pencil. And there was part of me that made me think, I think this is where the divide is, because you either go, Oh yeah, I remember doing this, or you go, What? That's true. And I think some of those people get angry, might be like there's a bit where I had to put a pencil in a thing and and turn it around for ages.

SPEAKER_00 38:28

Kind of gain, that's not Fortnite. That's one of doing that is if you could get a pencil thick enough so you could jam it in there and then you could just spin the tape a bit more interesting and just spinning. Yeah, yeah, I'd probably I remember having a walk whether they didn't even have a rewind on it, and it was just it well, it only had I think yeah, I think it just had fast forward on it.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

It was like a weird walk and then they got more sophisticated where you could skip tracks, but you'd have to like just wait until it found the next. And you could and they'd reverse automatically if you wouldn't have just been taken.

SPEAKER_00 39:05

Because I'm I'm of an age where not to get involved, I think I'm I've grew up strangely. It's because I don't re-relate with a lot of millennial stuff. And I'm in that weird and because I have an elder brother, Hugh, I grew up with a lot more old stuff.

SPEAKER_02 39:21

You're not that older than me, but Well, but I think also with it was our parents were into culture as well.

SPEAKER_00 39:30

Yes, so you never like oh here's some kids' stuff, kind of tech is strange, like yeah I grew up with tapes, yeah, and even into uni, so 2001, I still had I still had a stereo with a tape deck on, and I remember still making the mixed tape being like copying the track off the CD to then have a walk when on a train. Like I did then get MP3 players and everything, but I do remember for a time I still had I was still sort of using tapes and stuff.

SPEAKER_02 40:06

Yeah, I wasn't till really late. I mean I was quite quite a late adopter, partly because of money, basically. I was quite a late adopter of things like smartphones and even MP3. I remember I got an iPod for my birthday. I must have been 27 or something. My birthday in my twenties, Andrea got me an iPod and I couldn't because we didn't have broadband, I couldn't download the iTunes, I couldn't download iTunes. So I literally couldn't do anything with it for ages. Then eventually we got broadband on it. You literally, because unless you had iTunes, you literally couldn't do and I remember trying to get iTunes on dial up and it was so massive it was gonna like 8k download. And then yeah, and the times I tried to do it, it'd get to the end and then break, and I was just like, oh, got no iTunes. But yeah, that was that was where I was.

SPEAKER_00 40:55

But even now, like because of that, there's something like I like music streaming, I think it has its uses. I don't like that playlists can be immortal, like I do like finite lengths. Yeah, something quite nice about having to pick 20, like it's like when we used to go on say road trips, drive back to our parents in the old car that had a CD. It was good to make a CD. Yes, and then you're good, you are curating sort of 70 minutes of music rather than now. It's like you can just make an endless, I can make a six-hour playlist to get me all the way there. And you think no, it's sometimes it's quite nice to sometimes you do have to limit yourself to sort of properly curate an experience. I agree. So that was an episode of old people play games and watch movies, and watch movies and talk about how we were there in the beginning and how none of this stuff is actually aimed at us anymore.

SPEAKER_02 41:51

Well no, the thing the game was aimed at us. I think Malcolm Back probably aimed at us. Yeah. I don't have to. This episode of Noobscast was sponsored by my book, Noobs. Noobs is a middle grade adventure book about three kids who take on an evil AI at an eSports tournament. There's a link to the book in the podcast description, so please check this out if you're interested.