The human side of growth in wealth management

Change sounds neat on a slide. In real life, it is messy, emotional, and happening on top of three other things at once. 

In this episode of Inside Titan Wealth, Sophie Yabsley is joined by Jag Dosanjh, Group Change Director, and Tom Grogan, Senior Project Manager, to talk honestly about what it takes to deliver integrations and business change at Titan Wealth while the organisation keeps growing at speed.

Together they discuss the difference between technical change and behavioural change, and why adoption is where most projects quietly win or lose. Jag explains the “change curve” people move through when a familiar tool or process disappears, and why resistance often signals uncertainty rather than a bad solution. Tom shares what he has learnt from integrating long-standing businesses, including why emotional intelligence and trust matter more than the perfect project plan, and why you sometimes need to get on a train rather than send another email.

Jag and Tom also explore governance and regulation without turning it into a box-ticking lecture. In wealth management, good governance and strong compliance are what make change stick, protect clients, and keep the FCA comfortable, especially as Titan expands into new jurisdictions.

In this episode:

• Why people naturally resist change 
• The emotional side of integrations and transformation 
• Building trust during periods of uncertainty 
• Why communication matters more than process 
• How scaling businesses create opportunity for adaptable people 
• The importance of collective buy-in during organisational change

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This communication has been produced by Titan Wealth Holdings Limited. If you decide to invest, please remember that investment involves risk. Investments can go up and down in value, so you can get back less than what you put in. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance and may not be repeated.

Transcript

Welcome And Risk Notice

SPEAKER_02 0:00

Welcome to the Titan Wealth Podcast. Today I'm talking to Tom Grogan and Jim McDassange about change, not as a concept, but as a fundamental part of Titan as a growing, changing business. We talk about career paths, we talk about change fatigue, we talk about how you can become a change champion, and we talk about what one Titan means to them.

SPEAKER_00 0:20

This communication has been produced by Titan Wealth Holdings Limited. If you decide to invest, please remember that investment involves risk. Investments can go up and down in value, so you can get back less than what you put in. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance and may not be repeated.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

Hello Chaps. Welcome to the Titan Wealth Podcast. First things first, can I ask you to introduce yourselves to anyone that may not have worked with you directly?

SPEAKER_01 0:49

I'll defer to the more important man first.

SPEAKER_03 0:52

I'll go first say, yeah, I'm Jag. I'm group change director for Titan. Uh so my remit is effectively looking at integrations and change uh across the group. Um so managing all the different projects that we have going. Uh and Tom here is uh one of the project managers, uh part of this.

SPEAKER_01 1:12

Yeah, so Tom Grogan, uh senior project manager in Jags team. Um been here four years outside of C-suite, Titan employee number two. So, you know, been here since the start from GPP onwards, um, and primarily focus on post-accession integration. Um, but I'd say within the like the last 12 months, kind of focus more on internal business change as well. So the Model B custody initiative is a prime example of you know a big one in the business that I've kind of been driving. Um and yeah, that's it.

SPEAKER_02 1:48

So having started then as employee number two outside of C-suite, I I can't imagine there was a role profile waiting for you. Did you know what type of role you were walking into, or has is that something that's evolved over time?

SPEAKER_01 2:01

Um my first day actually, I came in to the office. I thought I was just being shown around um after interviewing with Damien Sharp. Um and he pointed at the um boardroom on floor

Titan Wealth’s growth journey and operational scaling

SPEAKER_01 2:14

five and said, Go in there. Uh so I went in, it was Ken Covney, Chris, and Henry Hunt, who's doesn't work for us anymore. But they were in the midst of putting together the final uh deal package to submit to Cardell um for the acquisition of that. Um, and they equally looked at me with the amusement that I looked at them. Um but I think that was kind of significant of the journey I've been on ever since about kind of roll your sleeves up and um apply yourself and uh throw yourself into everything that Titan has to offer.

unknown 2:47

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 2:48

Jag, when you joined Titan, what were the first things that jumped out at you in terms of the pace of change and the volume of activity?

SPEAKER_03 2:57

Yeah, so I think in terms of when I joined, I think probably the precursor to that was in the interview process. Um it was basically told to me, look, it's gonna be it's it's it's gonna be a lot. There's gonna be a lot that we're gonna be doing, and you know, it's gonna be like a rocket ship, and then it was true. So, you know, I think the best way to describe it is probably you know those um conveyor belts in the airport where they're constantly running, but it's at a fast pace. So it wasn't constant, it was uh, you know, you're you're joining a moving ship, as it were. Uh, and I think, yeah, I've I've had to kind of just get stuck in straight away. Uh and that's the key thing here. Uh uh there wasn't really time to just you know find that steady pace. It's kind of like you know, straight day one, delivering projects, getting involved in acquisitions, integrations, and and actually learning as we go. So, you know, figuring out all the different areas of the parts of the business, um, you know, straight from day one is trying to get that uh under my belt so I can help deliver and you know part of all the changes coming across the business.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

And how does that compare to previous roles that you've had? Is the pace quite similar or is it do you think that Titan is quite a fast-paced business?

SPEAKER_03 3:58

Yeah, I think it's fast-paced compared. I think the change is, I think in other businesses it's probably more structured. Um, whereas here I'd probably say it's layered. So it's not like, oh, there's a program and that's it, and then it embeds in it. It's kind of like there's an integration, there's a system change, there's regulatory change, there's process change, there's people change, and it's kind of one after another. So it's there isn't the respite, um, which then leads on to you know people having to deal with that from an emotional perspective uh and just figuring out where they land uh with all that land. So it's you know, part and parcel is exciting, but then it's also challenging at the same time. And you know, I've come from an environment where it was very structured and very rigid, whereas here it's very fluid, um, and you know, that excites me, and that's kind of why I joined.

SPEAKER_02 4:40

And do you think that fluidity then allows you to have more autonomy and be more impactful in terms of your role?

SPEAKER_03 4:47

100%. I I think you know, you know, I think where whatever part of the business you're entitled to, I think we should feel empowered, and I definitely feel empowered to to kind of do the right thing. And you know, I think we all have that in the back of our mind is good client outcomes, good employee experience, uh, and I think they're they're full you know, front and center in in our mind. Uh and I I definitely feel like you know I can make the right decisions uh within my remit. Uh obviously, you know, we still have governance and we still have you know the boxes that we kind of need to play in, but you know, within that box, you know, and hopefully, you know, you know, Tom and you know people in my team, you know, I give them the remit to be able to show their side of innovation and bring ideas to the table. And you know, hopefully, you know, others feel that within Titan as well, because you know, I definitely do.

SPEAKER_02 5:30

And then Tom, obviously jags come from a more structured environment to an environment where he says it's more sort of fluid. But I would guess that over the time you've been there, it's probably become more structured over time. How have you had to adapt to that?

SPEAKER_01 5:47

Yeah, so um maybe unstructured isn't the right word, but it was definitely very flat from the moment I joined. You know, if I look to the growth that we've experienced over four years. When I first joined, we had one floor in Wigmore Street, and Andrew, James, and Ken's offices were the meeting rooms. So um, straight off the bat, um, the growth has been aggressive. Um like Jag alludes to, um, I don't think you know we necessarily had all the frameworks in place from the off, but if you go about trying to kind of uh achieve perfection straight from the off and have all these kind of um what I call big corp

Why change becomes constant in fast-growing businesses

SPEAKER_01 6:32

structures in place for integration, um, for all the different governance elements, for the marketing, messaging, and as long as you've always got client outcomes at the center of what you're trying to do, um, then I think the rest kind of takes care of itself over a period of time. Um, we've got a lot of really good people that are in key positions at Titan, you know, legacy positions. I think about um Tiffany Roberts, for example, head of compliance, the ways that she's kind of been here from the start and graduated from that kind of GPP-centric role to group role, um, and how she's worked really hard in getting us in a place where uh the regulator looks positively upon us. Um, and I know there's a lot of good murmurings coming from the FCA about the work that has been done to make us um super compliant and following all the regulations that have constantly changing coming out of the FCA, um, which is I think a really good sign for the group that we don't just focus on, you know, the the revenue generation uh aspects of um the financial markets industry, but we also are cognant of the kind of governance elements as well, which is ultimately the stuff if you get wrong, that's the stuff that trips you up. So um, yeah, definitely experience a hell of a lot of change since I've been here.

SPEAKER_03 7:50

And I think just just to add to that, I think governance is sometimes governance because see us the bad thing, it stops us, it stifles us. But you know, I think from my perspective, and particularly around the change framework that we have, and um, you know, what I'm trying to roll out across the team is good governance helps embed change, bad governance stifles change. So, you know, there's a fine balance to get there, and and hopefully, you know, we're we're getting that balance right where we're not we're not trying to stifle change and innovation and and you know stop things from moving at a fast pace because we are a growing company and we want to continue to do that. Um, but also we we need governance, we need the checks and balances, we need to make sure that we're doing the right things from the regulatory perspective, from client perspective. So I think it's making sure that we have that right balance. Uh, and I think first and foremost, I've you know, I would say if we're not growing, then you know that's not a good message that we want to give out to employ employees as well. So, you know, I think it's very much a case of like we are growing uh and we need that change framework around to help deliver you know all the exciting things that are coming down the pipe effectively.

SPEAKER_02 8:48

Absolutely, and I think that that um lighter structure approach can encourage entrepreneurial spirit and can attract more entrepreneurial people, which is exactly what we want. But of course, it does need to be balanced with the regulatory side of it. As we um expand further internationally, obviously, then we're considering a much wider range of regulations, different jurisdictions and whatnot. How does that feed into what you do? I'm assuming that you have to be very aware of how things operate in different countries and feed that into everything you're doing in terms of your project planning.

SPEAKER_03 9:25

Yeah, 100%. Uh I think just before Chris was me and Tom started discussing in terms of international expansion plans and the future MA that's coming down there. And you know, a lot of that stuff is new to probably both of us. Um, you know, I think Tom's, you know, helped with the AHR acquisition and integration. But you know, a lot of the you know, data regulations, uh, you know, the ways of working internationally in Dubai, but then also channel is as well, and different systems, different processes, different people, you know, ways of working as well. So it's all gonna be you know different for us, but you know, the actual change framework you can pick up and drop in any country anywhere. Um, you know, it's all about delivering good delivery outcomes. Uh and as long as we agree up front, you know, we have project initiation documents, project plans, you know, all this good stuff, which helps us define exactly what we're gonna deliver. And you know, we we try and stay true to that. Uh and along the along the journey is to take people through that change process and whether it's systems, processes, whatever

The psychology of change and behavioural resistance

SPEAKER_03 10:18

it is, um, you know, it's it's quite a you know a structured framework from that perspective. So, yeah, so I think there's a lot to learn from from our side.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Yeah, and I think um from a Titan perspective, they were in a much better place to deliver that within the constraints and um the experiences that we've had so far when I first joined, me and Damien were change, you know, me and the COO. But since then, um Mark Wilson came, more project managers came, Jag came. We're now very well versed in what it takes to deliver successful change. We know the pain points, we know um the issues you commonly run into with sellers, etc. etc. Um, and so we're starting from a much higher base than we did when we first started. So um that should help us have that control over the change delivery itself and think hold us in really good stead. It is a good point around the jurisdictional challenges, and you're not just facing into one regulator, you'll be facing into many regulators moving forward. But that's why um, you know, we are so well resourced in uh the different areas of the business and look to kind of build upon um regulatory teams that you know Tiffany heads up, but Derek in AHR, Dave McGall in uh TWCI, and the combination of all those minds puts us in a good place to kind of attack that on the front foot.

SPEAKER_02 11:46

I'm really sorry to interrupt the podcast, but I just wanted to say that if you're interested in a career at Titan Wealth, why not head to our website and have a look at the career opportunities that we have available, or there'll be a link in the show notes below. Now back to the podcast.

Behavioural change and adoption curves

SPEAKER_02 12:02

So I'd like to talk a little bit about um when change becomes behavioural rather than technical, because of course, you know, you can work to a framework, but it doesn't necessarily um encompass how the people need to be brought along on that journey. So I'd like to ask you, Jag, in the first instance, what do we mean when we talk about change being behavioural rather than technical?

SPEAKER_03 12:27

Yeah, I I think it's uh probably a common uh misunderstanding about change because everyone just thinks it's you know a system or a process that's been delivered and rolled out. But actually, underneath that is it's actually how is that embedding within the people? Uh and when I when I when we say behavioral, and I I mention this a lot uh when talking about changes is actually the the curve that people go through from a change perspective. So, you know, when you're rolling out a new system, whether it be integrations, whatever it is, you know, that first communication uh you're announcing something is changing, you know, there's always that an instant shock. And, you know, prime example, you know, where you know we've had to move you know people from MacBooks to Windows, and and that's people's, you know, they've used that from day one. And all of a sudden we're now saying, here's a different device which is completely alien to them. And it's the curve that they have to go through where, you know, initially it's shock, horror, you know, why are we doing this? And then you know they're slowly coming round, you know, they probably go through a point of I can't be, you know, I don't want to do this, it's just you know, why are we doing this? And to a point where they start with actually, you know, they turn it on, they use it, actually, this is actually not too bad. And you get to a point where you know, actually it works well and I can do my job, and it's taking people through that curve. Uh, and I think it's also the appreciation around change when it effectively if people think it lands badly. I don't think change ever lands badly. I think it's a case of that's feedback. That's feedback in terms of what hasn't gone well from a project perspective where you know maybe we've not done enough comms or we've not done enough training and you know the the processes hasn't been embedded. So it's normally in terms of the adoption piece, which where it fails, and and that really is down to people being pushed through that change curve rather than being managed through it and taking them through in terms of the pace that they need to go to. Uh and I think we've we've had a lot of Tom probably had prime examples of that where you know we've we've kind of had to move people from um systems that they've used for 20, 30 years, and all of a sudden now we're you know, not out of any reason saying that your system that you're using is bad, but because maybe it's commercially viable that there's a better system here, or actually we would develop something which we put a lot of money into, and you know, actually it works better, we get you know, you know, automation or whatever it is, but it's getting people to convert from using a system that they used for 30 years to something brand new, shiny that looks completely different. So, you know, that and we there's there's tons of examples of that where you know it's happening across all our different projects, and you know how we manage that is is really key from a people perspective, and and that

“I don’t think change lands badly, I think that’s feedback”

SPEAKER_03 14:47

is the behavioural aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 14:48

Um so when you see people moving through that change curve, uh at what point is it that people typically struggle or that projects uh typically falter?

SPEAKER_03 14:59

I I think it's probably sometimes you can when people are probably being a bit irrational in terms of you know, and they're being blockered, uh and in terms of you know, are we you know there's issues, there's always issues, and you know, everything is is a is a pain point when actually in theory when you put peel back those onion layers, it's not it's not really that big of an issue. But they're just creating this facade and they're they're creating these blocks. Uh and you know, I think we sometimes, and I've probably done it in the past, you know, you mistake that irrationality for actually this project isn't working, but actually no, you just need to appreciate and understand where they are within that change cycle. Uh and once you do that and you can understand that it's kind of okay, well, what do we need to do to get them comfortable? How can we give them that safety net that they need? And you know, there's different ways of doing that, whether it be comms, training, you know, getting people involved in the project more and you know, all those different aspects. So, you know, I I think that's really key is just understanding and appreciating, you know, change change is big for people. Um, some people adapt to it easier than others. Uh other people you need you need to take a little bit longer to go through that. Um, and I think that's kind of you know the key aspect of it.

SPEAKER_02 16:04

And then just flipping that round then to you guys, in terms of you know, you're so heavily invested into a project and trying to get it over the line, it must be really hard not to take that kind of thing personally when you're getting pushback from people or from a business. Um, it must be quite hard to manage your own emotions in that scenario.

SPEAKER_03 16:25

Yeah, I I I think so. I think it's you know, Tom's probably got some really good good examples of this. But you know, I think in terms of my my my examples in my head is you know, I don't think we can take it personally. You know, I think as a change team, we can't deliver this change without the people. Um you know, we we can we can have a project plan, we can do all the different tasks on there, but actually, if we don't get the buy-in, we don't get the adoption, we don't get people understanding why we're doing this and you know, actually getting on board, it will always fail. So, you know, actually the project managers can't do it all themselves, and you know, I can't do it all my all myself. We we need everybody to be a collective and come together and you know, not to use that that word, but you know, it's it's it is the one titan. You know, we have to come together, and it's you know, it's part of that in terms of you know, any change project is uh seeing those individuals that can kind of come on that journey with us, and some of those will be the early people that actually are intrigued by what they see, and the other people you know may not be so interested initially, but you know, everybody comes on that journey at some point in time. Um, so as long as we identify those people and bring them on that journey.

SPEAKER_02 17:29

Yeah, and I would like to talk a little bit about change champion, change champions and how they emerge and why they are you know critical to helping you get your projects over the line. When you've worked on projects within Titan Group, is it particular people types, is it particular um kind of roles within the business, or have you seen a real spread of people that have um kind of leaned into what you're doing and worked with you?

SPEAKER_01 17:54

I think it from being here from the start, it varies company to company. I think a lot of um the change pain points come from the fact that we've bought these really good businesses that have been in the hands of the same people for 10, 15, 20 years, built it from the bottom to the top. You've bought them, which signifies they're a good business. And then you go in and you tell them, well, there are things that you could actually do a bit better, number one, and number two, there are some bits where,

Integration challenges in wealth management businesses

SPEAKER_01 18:26

as a a full group, as an institution, we've identified somewhere in the market where we can be better and we are gonna roll this out, and it's you know, you know, don't tell Kent, but I don't think there's much technical quality qualification that makes a good PM. I think it's high levels of emotional intelligence and getting people brought in to come on the journey with you. Um, I think at the start I did take it quite personally with the because people would be quite resistant. Um, we were a new player in the market, we didn't have any call-in cards to say we actually do know the best direction, we know how to grow, we know how to do this successfully. Um, but all of this is related to when people feel emotionally unstable, they resist. So the way to get people on board is to go see them in person, bluntly. It's go see them, um, go out for dinner, grab a drink, spend time with them in their office, treat them how you would treat friends, family, colleagues that you work with really closely every day, and build that emotive connection with them where you do gain their trust, right? I think that's the uh most key one is that you these people have to trust you. If they don't trust you, they're never gonna do or follow the plan. I could deliver the best project plan the world's ever seen, but if people don't believe in the destination and the journey, then they're never gonna do it regardless.

SPEAKER_00 19:50

Sure.

SPEAKER_01 19:51

Um so I think that's the most important part of being uh integration PM, especially here at Titan where everything moves so quickly, is to um you know win over the people that you're working with from these subsidiaries and you know listen to them. Like if people don't feel listened to, they automatically shut down. So um I think that's an important part of this and the delivery of this.

SPEAKER_02 20:15

And do you think then as you have got projects under your belt over time and you've delivered successfully on things, has that given you more confidence when going into new projects that you take on?

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Yeah, definitely. I and I think when you know the foundational framework works, if you do get that by-in, you can fully focus because you're not creating a template from scratch anymore. You know, me and when it was me and Damien, or even just when it was me and Mark Wilson, like we were building a lot of these templates and Excel's and project initiation documents from scratch and doing it ad hoc for people off the straight off the bat, but now we've the written content already exists, it's about tailoring that and um running people through it. Um and then you can really can focus on that emotional side of winning people over.

SPEAKER_02 21:06

Do you enjoy that? Do you enjoy going around and meeting people? Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_01 21:09

That's the exciting part about Titan, right? Is like we have all these offices, and um, I know Andrew and James are real advocates of pick up the phone, go see people, avoid email and Teams really at all costs unless it's completely necessary. Because the way someone interprets an email or a team's message is completely on them, and it might be completely different to how you intended it. And until you sit and look in the whites of people's eyes, they'll never really know the intention that you're coming with with a lot of the things that you're trying to implement or do. Because ultimately we all work for the same business, so um we're all trying to ensure that Titan's one of the most successful players in the market, right? And that's the bit that I think everyone always needs to keep um at the center of what we're doing. That we are all trying to pull in the same direction to make this most successful

The emotional side of organisational transformation

SPEAKER_01 22:03

business because that means you know more successful individuals, a better culture if a business is doing well, and ultimately larger awards for both the firm and the individuals if the company's doing well.

SPEAKER_03 22:17

Yeah, and I think just to add to that, I think as part of all the different projects that Tom and all the other project managers have delivered, is you know, we we do take stock after a project. We do look back and you know do a lessons learned, you know, with the business and you know within the project team as well. And actually, you know, what hasn't worked, what has worked well, and what can we do to take that into the next project. You know, because you know, every every project we do, we're constantly learning. Every integration we do, we're constantly figuring out what is working, what doesn't work. And I think you know, we're we're at a position now where you know the integrations that we've we're doing now at the moment and coming up, we're actually delivering you know benefits to clients and employees sooner uh than previously, because you know, we know what works well, we know what doesn't work well. So we're actually able to move quite quickly and and deliver stuff you know very quickly as well. So uh and I think that puts us in good stead for anything coming down the pipeline from an acquisition perspective and integration standpoint.

SPEAKER_02 23:10

Something I've observed, just kind of looking um from the outside at the kind of acquisition and project management team is that people who seem to really embrace the change and lean into their curiosity um and become um you know change champions can actually then use that to progress themselves within the firm and increase their sphere of influence. Would you say that's true?

SPEAKER_03 23:36

Yeah, 100%. I think change in general is is is a good breeding ground for you know curiosity, curiosity because in effect, you you know, it sometimes projects can be quite ambiguous in terms of you know what we're trying to deliver. When people are kind of leaning in and kind of getting involved, they may not be experts in terms of what we're looking to do and help deliver, but you know, they roll their sleeves up, they get involved to the word that uh Tom used trust. You know, all of a sudden they start building trust within you know the part of the business that they're working in. But then also those silos break down as well because change kind of goes over multiple different silos. Um it's not just impacting you know a single team or single process, it could be doing uh numerous different things. So I think it allows people to dip into maybe something that they haven't maybe worked on before or done something before. So it kind of broadens people's horizons. You know, actually, you know, somebody may realize that they're actually really good at you know some compliance aspects, but they've never actually had the opportunity to kind of work on that, but they've got involved because of a project, and we needed we needed somebody to roll their sleeves up, and all of a sudden, you know, they're they're now interested in that. So 100%, I definitely think it breeds that curiosity piece and you know allows people to explore different avenues within a business. And Titan is growing, so you know there's there's plenty of opportunity here. And I think you know, any project that we're running and you feel like you know you want to be involved, we need people to be involved and we need people to help drive those projects. So, you know, I'm I'm all for people putting a hand up saying, look, can we be involved? Can we help? Um, you know, very much so.

SPEAKER_01 25:04

Yeah, and I think even outside of the change delivery projects, I haven't seen a company that's so committed to redeploying people into different departments or organizations. Even you know, if you look at AHR and TWCI, people have moved onshore to offshore multiple times. Um, it takes a bit of courage to put your hand up and say, look, I want to do this, I'm committed to this. And yeah, it is a risk, but the people that have done it so far, it seems to have paid off for nearly all of them, right? So I think it's really impressive how our first um the thing that we do when we're trying to source role profiles is to look internally first. And things like Lever, which is the internal hiring platform. I don't think actually many people, or not all the people that work for Titan Group, utilize that or know that enough to show what is available in the group right now. So that's one thing I'd implore everyone to do is kind of utilize that resource. And like Jagalute said, I think you can be anything you want to be at Titan. It just does, it takes a bit of a leap of faith to do so, and you have to get out of your comfort zone. But um, yeah, I think it's a great place to kind of build experience in so many areas across a financial services institution.

SPEAKER_02 26:14

I think it makes us much more competitive as a recruiter as well, if we can offer people opportunities across various different jurisdictions and in so many different roles within a financial services business. I think that's really powerful. Um,

Change Fatigue And Staying Energised

SPEAKER_02 26:28

I just want to touch on change fatigue. Uh, I don't want to focus on the negatives, but it is a real thing, isn't it? So, how do you guys balance having empathy for that with the reality that Titan is a business of change and there will always be change happening?

SPEAKER_03 26:43

I think the the key thing here is like understanding that change in general is hard for people and and not just in terms of the actual delivery, but the impact. And I think the key thing here is that actually change isn't just projects. Um so you know, we do a lot of the the key big initiatives and the the big drivers which are you know impactful across the business, but you know, there could be small change with you know, you know, people's changing their line management responsibility, you know, um little things change like the HR systems changing, little things like that. But you know, it's it's small little things. So you know, people are probably constantly going through change uh and understanding that. And the the bigger change obviously is is a lot more difficult in terms of what how it needs to be implemented. But I think the key thing here is from my perspective as well, is I I always look for you know change as an opportunity. Uh, and I think you know there's plenty of opportunities within Titan for people to grab uh and get involved. And uh, you know, I I've said it many times and projects that we've got in got rolled out and kind of delivered is like you know, we're always looking for those individuals that are kind of you know showing that interest and showing that ability to to learn and you know understand things. And we don't know everything, you know, me and Tom, you know, we we don't know. No, no, no, unfortunately not. Tom, maybe Tommy Tom Tom maybe, Tom maybe, but we we we don't, and and actually, you know, as part of the project, we're actually learning as well at the time. So, you know, if if from you know a a year ago to the day, I joined Titan. So, you know, a year ago, I probably didn't know half as what I understand when you know, a quarter of what I understand in terms of investment management and and you know, wealth management, etc. But you know, I've gone on that huge learning curve, and you know, I've I've learnt myself, and and actually my skill set is is gone up as well and understanding, and that's only helped me deliver more change within the business, like you know, custody model B. If you spoke to me a year ago, I wouldn't know what custody was. But you know, we've had to deliver a project and you know get that over the line uh before Christmas. So, you know, it's it's things like that. It's actually there's there's plenty of opportunity across the business. And I don't think, you know, probably past experience, I don't think you probably get that other places, and you know, sometimes you know the grass isn't always greener. Um, and you know, I've I've come from organisations that I worked in the past, is it's very regimented, it's very stagnant. And I think one of the things I I looked at when you know I looked at Titan was actually this is interesting, this is you know, it's exciting, it's fluid, it's you know entrepreneurial, like that that's all true. Uh and I think there's plenty of opportunities there for people to look into you know what we're doing, get involved. Uh, and I think the key thing here is no idea is a bad idea. Um, and I think the the C-suite and you know, James, Andrew, Ken, Damien, you know, all of them, they're all interested in listening to what people have to say. And you know, if you can come to them with a good idea that actually makes sense, that they'll back you. And and I think that's really important here. Uh, and I think those layers that there isn't there isn't layers, and and I think Tom can can talk to that as well, you know, from you know being employee number two to kind of what you're delivering now, you know, I think that probably shows that kind of growth.

SPEAKER_01 29:40

Yeah, definitely. I think as well, like the the one thing I've always held on to here is within my first couple of weeks, you know, Damien, James, Andrew, Ken, they said from the outset, as long as you don't fall foul of regulatory um regulation, we will back you in any room to any person and to anyone, because we know you want to do the right thing for Titan. And when and when C-suites say that to you, that kind of empowers you to actually yeah, go out there and be confident and know that even if you do mess up, as long as your intentions are always pure, then you have the backing of the people that founded this company.

SPEAKER_02 30:24

Because everyone makes mistakes, right?

SPEAKER_01 30:25

Exactly. No one's perfect. Um, we all try to be. Yeah, sorry everyone. We all try to be, but sometimes we come up a bit short. Um, but yeah, to have that kind of backing behind me, I think was one of the most powerful things that could have ever been given to me by those guys because it gave me the confidence to just be me, always do try to do my best and try and make an impact.

SPEAKER_02 30:48

So I'd like to talk a little bit more actually about your um personal career journeys because they've been quite different. And um, so the analogy I've got in my head is that Tom, when you started, someone said, right, build a running machine and get it working. And then Janeg, when you joined, the running machine's already going at 40 miles an hour and you've somehow got to get on it without falling

Building collective buy-in across scaling teams

SPEAKER_02 31:08

over. So I'd like to understand what personality traits you think that you've had to display that have helped you get on with your job.

SPEAKER_01 31:19

Do you want to go first? Yeah, I think kind of the key one is resilience. Um it's an extremely rewarding place to work at, but also challenging as well, especially starting from the start. Um I alluded it to earlier, but I think from the day I joined, there's kind of been like five core business changes around what Titanism was it's aiming to do, right? It was small DFM firms, kind of no bigger than 500 million AUM. My first couple of weeks, we then bought Cardell, which has 2 billion assumes. Um it was to kind of um monopolize the UK market, and now we're in offshore markets. It wasn't client of custody, now we're not client to custody. And I think it's about kind of taking that in your stride and also leveraging it as an opportunity for yourself. I think you know so far we've kind of talked about um Titan as a group and how good the group is and what an um opportunity it is within the market for Titan, but it's an incredible opportunity for um people to build a career for themselves. You know, I joined as an ops associate for Damien, where basically I just did whatever he needed me to do. You know, like there was a guy that used to work here called Tom Woods, who's um head of all funds in the UK now. He used to call me Damien's attack dog, but you know, that that was what was required. I had to go to people's desks, I had to chase people down, I had to get things done. And um doing that and not being afraid to do so, and kind of the relentless nature of Titan, it will either kind of make you or break you to an extent because what everyone's got to remember as well is like just because you don't fit or you don't enjoy somewhere, it doesn't mean that it's either party's fault. It's like it's like a partnership, right? Working for a company, and um different people require different flavours and different working environments, and I think it's really important to always remember that that um this amount of change won't be for everyone. And it is it's hard at times, right? Like the amount of work you have to put in, like you take it home with you, like it plays on your mind, like these are real things that we're working on at the moment that move the dial in terms of eBit DA performance and basically the outcome, successful outcome of Titan as a business itself, but also from a personal perspective, you know, remuneration, uh promotion, um, training courses that Titan are really committed to providing for all their employees. It's like there's such a great opportunity, and in four years here, I've gone probably from someone that um would only be considered for a handful of jobs in the industry to you know, bluntly my CV now and what I've delivered and what I've experienced over four years, I could walk into most places in financial services and feel confident that I could land a job in change. And that's that's what that's done for me, is like it's propelled me to another level from a personal perspective. So for all the mutual benefits of working for Titan, there's also so many benefits for me as an employee, uh, and going from kind of a very junior to you know approaching kind of a senior role now, uh, and then ultimately, you know, I want to move on and I want to be Jack, and then I'll after Jack, I want to be Mark Wilson, and then after Mark Wilson, I want to be Damien. So, and that's I think the best part of Titan is like I believe I could do all those things here.

SPEAKER_02 34:55

It's nice when you talk about it like that because it's really clear that there's a 50-50 partnership there between the drive that you exhibit personally and the work that you're prepared to put in, and then the support and opportunity that Titan has provided you with, and those two have worked really well together to get you to where you're going basically.

SPEAKER_01 35:13

Yeah, it's you know if I just you know, using a just a monetary example, if I joined and I was on the same salary for four years and no one acknowledged my effort, no one acknowledged any what I'd put in so far, then I'd look to leave. But I think

Change management, leadership and communication

SPEAKER_01 35:27

we're quite good here at recognising um high performers and potential and investing in that potential and giving it the platform to grow and rewarding it along the way. Um, you know, I I think that's a really important part is to nurture our own internal talent, and you know, every CEO starts as an associate somewhere.

SPEAKER_02 35:47

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_01 35:48

So I think just having that belief, and you know, I hope everyone does have that belief that work here that you can start at the proverbial bottom and reach the top. Um and yeah, and I think the the open nature and the kind of approach that the CEOs take here about open door policy and no idea is a bad idea, only helps kind of enrich that opportunity, and that should really excite people, in my opinion.

SPEAKER_03 36:12

Absolutely. Yeah, and I and I think just to add to Tom's point there, I think we get invested. You know, I I think within a week I was invested in Titan. Yeah, I was, you know, give give me some give me something purple, you know, purple socks, wherever it is, you know. I I was I was I was down and you know, I was ready to run through through doors and you know whatever needs to happen. And I think that was that was probably what excited me.

SPEAKER_02 36:34

That's quite a powerful tool, that isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 36:36

Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I I think it was I said it to I think I said it to Tom. I I I wasn't here when that the summit, but actually seeing James, Andrew, and you know, all the C-suite speak, it actually, you know, it kind of built something inside. Like, oh wow, this is this is exciting. This is like what do I need to do? I want I want to be involved, I want to help drive, you know, and be part of this success that that is obviously coming, and we've already had it with with everything that we've done so far. So and I think probably with with Tom as well, I think it's key. I think I mentioned I said something ages ago where you know Tom is you know gets personal, gets invested, and you know, we need more people like that within the business. And I think we've got a lot of people like that. And I think I said something ages ago where you know if you were to you know cut Tom, you know, he he'd bleed purple. And and actually, you know, it's it's kind of resonated with people, and it's kind of resonated with a lot of people. And a lot of people are just using it chunk tongue in cheek now in terms of you know when we're where we're chatting, whether it be in meetings, whatever, but it's actually true, you know, once you kind of you have that empowerment within the business, once you have that understanding of you know what the vision is and the strategy and that one Titan view that we want to get across, it's actually in pockets, it's it's it's coming through, and people want to be part of this purple rocket train of whatever we're on, uh, and they see that actually, you know, we're we're going somewhere and there's there's tons of opportunities. And personally, for me, you know, I you know I was previously worked in organizations that you know you're just a small person down here in enlarge 30, 40,000 employees. We're actually here, all right. You know, we've grown, we're grown even when I've been here, but you're actually somebody and you're somebody that can be listened to. You matter, you matter, and and actually your ideas matter as well, and what your voice matters, and you know, actually you can make a difference. And I think that's the key thing here is you have the ability to make a difference and you have the ability to help the business grow. I don't think you get that in many other organizations, and I think that was the the appealing thing, and and then secondary to that was I think it's exciting, you know, every day is different. You know, I'll I'll come in one day I'm working on a project about X, and then the next day it's working on a project, and sometimes it's challenging because you have to change your hat and you have to go from one meeting to the other, but but it's actually exciting, and you know, you're learning constantly, you're being challenged as well, you're being pushed to the limits in terms of what you can do, and it's it's only better and rewarding for yourself from a career perspective. And you know, Tom wants my job, rightly so, you know, and and I want you know Mark Wilson's job, and and and uh you know I want to further my career and chat, Mark. Yeah, exactly. And you know, it's it's one of those things where actually, you know, you you know, I've I've been working, you know, probably you know, you know, 15-20 years now in terms of in in different industries, but actually understanding there's actually the opportunity here to do that, and you know, there's not many places that you get that opportunity, and you know, sometimes you can feel stagnant in in a role. Um and I've had that previously, but here I don't think I could ever see that happening because we're constantly evolving, changing, and you know, trying to do new and you know innovative things, and you know, and and that's from top down, I think. So that vision is coming from top down, which is great.

SPEAKER_02 39:33

I think it's important as well to to kind of bring back to uh the ultimate, which is the client, right, and the client experience. And I think that in amongst all this change, and I think that's something that perhaps people worry about when we talk about change is that they don't want things to change for clients. But in my experience, you guys are quite considered in um in terms of how you think about client output. And actually,

Why change creates career opportunities at Titan Wealth

SPEAKER_02 39:54

whilst we can try and improve um lots of things and streamline things internally, nothing actually needs to change from the client side if they don't want it to. Those relationships will remain the same, the service that they receive will remain the same. Would you agree with that from your perspective?

SPEAKER_03 40:10

Yeah, 100%. I think, you know, I think first and foremost, you know, everything that we're trying to deliver from a project perspective, you know, I always ask the PMs, you know, client outcomes are key to this. That that's front and foremost in terms of what we're trying to deliver. You know, manage impact to clients if there if there has to be anything. And and I think we're always looking to actually improve service. Yeah. You know, the the collection of businesses that are coming together from a retirement perspective is actually to give clients that, you know, it's parts of business that we required that may never have opportunities to invest in precious metal or you know, uh have have an offering out in Dubai or whatever it is that actually they were part of this organization that just didn't have those offerings. So, you know, bringing these businesses together, we're actually giving clients the opportunity to potentially invest in things that they weren't able to invest in. And also technology, you know, system processes and compliance governance, you know, that whole piece is you know, we're trying to bring all these businesses together to give a secure, you know, you know, we want to protect clients, we want to protect client outcomes. And I think as a bigger organization, we could do that a lot better because we do have the frameworks and the processes and you know the the compliance stuff in place, um, where you know some organizations may not have exactly what we have. But yeah, I think it's it's front and foremost in terms of everything that we're trying to deliver. Um it's very key.

SPEAKER_02 41:28

So, Jag, earlier you mentioned one Titan. Can you tell me what that means to you guys?

SPEAKER_03 41:35

Yeah, uh One Titan. I I think every time I think of one Titan, I just see purple. And I think it's it it's true. I think from my perspective, I think it's it's alignment. I I think in terms of um, you know, it's not just conforming and you know, we are one titan, it's actually the true alignment of our businesses and us all coming together. I think that's really, really key. Uh, and I think it's you know, people, whether you're based in Channel Islands or Dubai or Harriga or London, it's actually broadening your horizons outside of that office and looking into other places. And you know, as Tom said, look, if if you if you're in London and you're coming from Saras, go out and have a coffee with somebody and you know, actually have a conversation and you know, call somebody else that you you don't know. And you know, and and I need to get out to more offices around the uh around Titan as well to to learn and and meet more people, but I think it's very much that. I think it's it's the coming together, it's you know that that alignment across the piece, and and actually the culture isn't just what you know senior leaders are saying we are one Titan. It's actually us doing the do on the ground, so it's us believing that and us, you know, feeling that and and understanding that. And and that only comes from us and you know, meet Tom when we're delivering change projects is kind of giving that message across around alignment and coming together and integration and all those sorts of things. So I think we we do our job in trying to get across that one Titan culture. Um, but I think we're we're all part of that, and we all have to align and you know come together.

SPEAKER_01 43:04

Yeah, and I think alignment is a a good word for that because I think you know, with the amount of people and the amount of offices we have now, you're never going to have a uniformed culture across the whole business, but you have the same principles and you have the same goals and the same commonality about what you're working to. Uh and Sophie, you mentioned earlier like change champions. Those are the people that will make a difference for the culture of this business because culture starts by saying hi to everyone in the morning and developing relationships within your own office first and you know, going for a a pint after work. Like everyone, you know, laughs at all of that, but like that's the stuff where you build friendship and trust with your colleagues. You know, and I know within um like London office, for example, there's like 10, 10, 11 people that I know that if I contact them for anything, they'll prioritize what I need, and likely I'll prioritize what they they need because we do have a personal relationship and we do have a trust and we know. Um, that we all are pulling in the same direction. And something that made that quite um stark for me was the Next Gen program, which includes um lots of different people from lots of different

“Change isn’t for everyone”

SPEAKER_01 44:11

offices. And our last session that we had, we all sat at the end and we were reflecting on um what's been the best thing we've achieved, and it's that we would do and go above and beyond for each other because we now have a personal relationship. So I know if Wing calls me or Andreas calls me, I'll get there and I'll do it for them because I know spending time with them in person, we all have the same alignment to the same common goal and what we're trying to achieve. And that's very powerful that emotional bond that you form with people in person. And I think that's a key thing what Jag allude to as well is like, do try and if you can take the opportunity to go to as many offices as you can and kind of build that rapport with your colleagues, or you know, at the next summit, speak to people you don't know, introduce yourself, say hi. Like this that's where the culture's built, and you build it in pockets and then it spreads and it's infectious, and everyone kind of gets excited.

SPEAKER_03 45:04

Yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 45:05

Amazing. Thank you so much, guys.

SPEAKER_01 45:08

Cool.

SPEAKER_03 45:08

Thanks for having us.

SPEAKER_02 45:09

It'd be great to chat.