Work hard, play hard but without becoming “corporate”

Culture often gets talked about as though it's something you define once and leave alone. At Titan Wealth, we don’t buy that.

As the business continues to grow through acquisitions and welcomes new colleagues across multiple markets, culture is something that evolves, shaped by the people who join us, the behaviours we encourage and the decisions we make every day.

In this episode of Inside Titan Wealth, host Sophie Yabsley, Managing Director of Titan Wealth Channel Islands, is joined by James Kaberry, Chairman and Joint CEO, Gretchen Roberts, Group HR Director, and Laura Hurn, Behavioural Insights Partner, for an honest conversation about what it really takes to grow a business without losing the entrepreneurial mindset that made it successful in the first place.

James explains why "One Titan" isn't about making every team work in exactly the same way, but about creating alignment while leaving room for individuality. Gretchen shares why culture is never finished, why honesty about where you are matters, and how leadership behaviours shape the employee experience far more than words on a wall. Laura brings a behavioural science perspective, exploring the emotional side of acquisitions, why psychological safety matters during periods of change, and how giving people the confidence to challenge ideas from day one helps build stronger organisations.

The discussion also explores the role of AI in the workplace, how leaders can help people embrace new technology with confidence, and why career development in a growing business isn't defined by hierarchy, but by curiosity, accountability and the willingness to contribute.

In this episode:

• Why a growing business doesn't have to become "corporate"
• How direct access to leadership helps create a more entrepreneurial culture
• Why culture should continue to evolve as organisations grow
• How behavioural science can support successful acquisitions and business integration
• How AI is changing the workplace, and why people matter just as much as technology.
• What career progression looks like in a fast-growing wealth management business

Subscribe for more conversations from Inside Titan Wealth on wealth management, financial advice and the people, ideas and challenges shaping the business. 

For more information about Titan Wealth, please visit our website: www.titanwh.com

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This communication has been produced by Titan Wealth Holdings Limited. If you decide to invest, please remember that investment involves risk. Investments can go up and down in value, so you can get back less than what you put in. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance and may not be repeated.

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:01

Today's episode of the Title Wealth Podcast is a really important one. I sat down with James, Gretchen, and Laura Herman to talk about our culture, to talk about how it's really important to be honest about the fact that that culture isn't a finished product. I think that allows people to feel like they're making a real impact in what we're working towards. We also talk about AI and career progressions, and we get James's view on what it takes to be successful at Titan.

SPEAKER_00 0:27

This communication has been produced by Titan Wealth Holdings Limited. If you decide to invest, please remember that investment involves risk. Investments can go up and down in value, so you can get back less than what you put in. Past performance is not a reliable indicator of future performance and may not be repeated.

SPEAKER_06 0:50

Hi guys, welcome to the Titan Wealth Podcast. So I'm here today with James, our co-founder and joint CEO, who hopefully most of you already know, with Gretchen, our head of HR, and with Laura, who joined us just at the beginning of this year. So hopefully most people know who James is by now. So, Gretchen, would you mind just um introducing yourself um and just giving a little summary of who you are and where you've come from?

SPEAKER_05 1:14

Hi, yeah, so I'm Gretchen Roberts. I'm the group HR director, I head up the um the HR for the Titan function. I initially joined Titan as part of the acquisition with GPP, so that was about five years or four years ago. Um okay, four and a half. Um you're an old timer now in Titan. Yes, I've I've been here very long, so yeah, that's where I come from initially. Um and you're based in London? I am, I spent my time between London and Cape Town at the moment, where we have all our offices, um, and but mostly in London at the moment. Yeah. And how about you, Laura?

SPEAKER_03 1:47

Yeah, so I joined at the beginning of January, so quite new, um, as a behavioural insights partner. So sitting with HR, but I suppose acting as a kind of internal strategic partner for sort of the people side of internal change. Um, but no, lots of exciting things, lots of work.

SPEAKER_06 2:03

I think your role is is from a staff perspective, is quite an exciting investment to see that Titan is making an investment like that in staff culture well-being. Um, so yeah, it's great to have you.

Culture as daily behaviour

SPEAKER_06 2:16

Thank you. So I'm gonna talk a little bit about culture today. So, Gretchen, when we talk about culture at Titan, what what are we really talking about here?

SPEAKER_05 2:25

So, culture is basically the way we behave every day with our peers, with our management team, um, you know, how we act in front of our clients, how we address challenges. So, really just um who we are as a business and and and the way we work.

unknown 2:41

Okay.

SPEAKER_06 2:42

And why is it important not to overstate where our culture is today? We've obviously been as a business on an acquisitive journey and there are lots of businesses becoming one. Um so it's probably important to talk about how our culture isn't a finished product, right?

SPEAKER_05 3:01

No, definitely not. Um, and that's you know, a business like Titan that is changing all the time. Our culture isn't defined, it won't be defined until we reach the final, you know, the end goal, because all businesses, you know, culture evolves over time. Um and I think it's important that people understand that because if we try and act or say, you know, our culture is X, Y, and Z, and we don't show that, then people don't really trust, you know, what are you actually portraying? So it's important to be visible and honest about where we are changing. Culture develops over time. We're a young business. We do have a culture, but I'm sure in a few years' time, as we grow, as we get new acquisitions, things will look a lot different. So, yeah, that's why I think it's really important that we're honest about the culture piece.

SPEAKER_06 3:41

And how does culture show up in every everyday decisions rather than being just statements that you've alluded to, things that are just written down on bits of paper?

SPEAKER_05 3:50

So I think because culture is, as I said earlier, about behavior, in terms of the decisions, the way we make decisions on you know difficult things, you know, sometimes it's decisions like how we go move forward with an acquisition, how we you know make changes, that's where the culture and who we are and what we believe uh defines the decisions we make.

SPEAKER_06 4:09

I think a lot of it's got to be leading by example, hasn't it, as well? Exactly, yeah. Demonstrating what we expect.

SPEAKER_05 4:15

Yeah, and and the management team in terms of you know uh, as you say, setting the tone from the top and living those values um for the the you know they reports to be able to to mirror, I guess.

One Titan through alignment

SPEAKER_06 4:28

Um James, why does alignment matter more than people just doing things in the same way? That cultural alignment, sort of common commonality of goal and understanding.

SPEAKER_01 4:38

I think that we can I think I've just done a podcast and uh I think it's quite interesting. It comes back to sort of one titan, as it were. Where is alignment? What is alignment? And I come back to the culture piece as well. It's got to be refined over a period of time. I mean, we make acquisitions, we continue to make acquisitions, there are different cultures from those businesses, whether it be small, larger, etc. International, whether it be Guernsey, you're from Guernsey, um, whether it be the guys from Dubai, um, whether it be guys from um Scotland or Newcastle or Norwich, doesn't really matter. They're different cultures. They're similar because that's why we've got them to there in the first place. The alignment piece is that what either a business has sold to us on the premise that they want to come in, partner, they want to develop going forward. And so that's normally the owners. What we're trying to do is we end up with obviously all the staff and the people who work for those businesses, they're being brought together. The challenge is that we've gone from 70 people to 1,400 plus people now. Um, these two know only too well. Um the challenges that that brings with it, you do as well. Um, and I think the alignment that I try and look at this, and Andrew does as well, is that what we want is to people on the same page, you're not necessarily going to get the full culture here. I don't actually think it'll ever fully develop in reality, because over it find five, ten years, you can define certain parts of that culture, but you have to leave individuality into it for certain parts of maybe the world or a different type of business line, etc. etc. Um, alignment. Why do we want alignment? It makes it easier to work with everybody in reality, and I think we continue, and I know that at some point we'll probably end up discussing, um uh having uh a share save type scheme uh for people. We want people to benefit, which means alignment at the same time, as the same time as the as the group grows. Um I think we want a culture that is I go by very simply, work hard, play hard. Um people can say, oh, well that's terrible, that's ridiculous in this day and age. It's not. I think if you work hard, rewards come from it. And if you have that alignment, I think that's the way forward. We don't want to where we are not a corporate, and I will fight that tooth and nail for quite some time. We might be a scale of a corporate, but I will fight that tooth and nail um in what we do and how we behave.

SPEAKER_06 7:16

Yeah, I think everyone would agree we don't want to have a culture that's too stiff and proper. No.

SPEAKER_01 7:20

Um no. See, look, you and us are all chuckling. That's exactly case in point.

SPEAKER_06 7:28

Yeah. Um, Gretchen, we talk a lot um on these podcasts and as a business about one titan and aligning everybody. How how do we achieve that? You know, when we're looking at different businesses, different cultural practices, different geographies, different processes. How can we work towards that?

SPEAKER_05 7:46

So I think to James's point, we're never going to be fully 100% aligned. It's just not possible. There are people from Dubai, Harrogate, Cape Town, all over the world, and you know, they have different experiences and different expectations. But the one culture to from my perspective or our perspective is, you know, we're all aligned as to how we do things. We might do it slightly differently, or but it's about how we achieve that. So what and what's the expectation? You don't have to do it specifically, as the book says, but we need to get to a certain point, doing it through our values, the collaboration, you know, the commitment and working together, you know, moving forward. So um you can't fully to answer the question, you can't fully align everybody on in terms of that. But the one Titan, he's come along on the journey of Titan, and this is where we're trying to move forward to.

SPEAKER_06 8:32

And there must be, when you're looking at different businesses that we've bought and different offices, there must be cultural positives in each place that you think we can learn from as a group and take little snippets from each of those pieces.

SPEAKER_05 8:46

But I think that, you know, as James says again, there's areas where there's it's you know, there's good culture and it's amazing, but you don't, you know, you want to create a new culture, but we're keeping those uh good pieces. We want to also learn from you know the ones we acquire, what do they do? And so often the culture evolves with the new individuals or business that come forward and we um from that perspective. So it's keeping the identity, the good pieces, but also addressing the areas where we can all improve.

SPEAKER_01 9:12

Core values, yeah. Keep the core values and the core values I go back to what we're saying. Um work hard, play hard. I I think also transparency. We talk, I think doing these podcasts is one thing, and I think it's is is key. Um, we on our previous podcast, Andrew and I were just talking about there's an element of youth. So we you get that transparency because you're quite not afraid. Why should anyone be afraid to talk to uh anyone about what's going on and how we develop? And I think if you have that, it's not of uh enveloping uh people um uh or protecting people, treating them as mushrooms, as the as the old saying used to go. Um there's no point doing that. And Andrew raised it on our again last podcast that IWP have been literally kept in the dark till the last moment. What why? There's no point. I mean it's their management, not ours. So where we don't operate on that basis. I think um there is always culture is quite interesting to watch because I I mean, having been in this business and started this business with Andrew, having had other businesses as well, it's it is about the people, keeping the people um in the the right frame and aligned, and I pick up on that, with the right commonality of idea, how they run business, allowing people enough rope to hang themselves, as they say, um, giving them uh accountability. These are things that are miss within the and so if you can teach that within the culture, I mean we see it all the time. I travel around all the time, Gretchen travels around, you travel around all the time, um the time. I mean, it's it's constant. And I think that the more people do travel around, I think it's really important to see how different people were, to correct them if they're wrong. And honestly, there's no harm in doing that. You know, if they say, oh, well, somebody told me this is how it works, um if it's wrong, tell them. Because the problem is in a lot of this day and age, people don't they say they back off and say, oh, well, he's not my line manager or she's not my line manager, whatever it happens to be. And the reality is the culture should be you correct them to what is our, as in Titan, uh, what's the responsibility and what's the uh process, etc. etc.

Psychological safety in a flat organisation

SPEAKER_06 11:28

Yeah, and I I I think as an international business, I doubt there's many other businesses that operate on the scale we do where people have the direct access to our well, our CEOs, our top team that you do at Titan. Yeah. I mean, we can't get rid of you, James. I know it's terrible.

SPEAKER_01 11:46

I've been trying to go for ages, but hey.

SPEAKER_06 11:48

Um but that's a really important part of it, I think, that any anybody feels that they can approach members of the top board, effectively. Yeah, I think it's very open, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 11:58

Yeah, I mean I've come in quite junior and I've obviously not been here that long, but but one thing that I think people trying to make a real conscious effort to do is sort of signal that psychological safety, going, you know, we're we are a work in progress, despite our size and success. Here are my mistakes. I I can I can go into Gretchen and James's office anytime and go, I've had an idea, here's something I think that we're not doing great. Can you let me run with it? And nine times out of ten, unless I've missed something really obvious, the backing is there to go, yeah, go for it. But it's it's being really honest about the fact that we do make mistakes and we are still learning. And if the leadership can do that, I think kind of the signals throughout the company that yeah, they are approachable despite kind of how they may be perceived. I think that's really important.

SPEAKER_06 12:45

That must feel very empowering for you, having just joined the business and being able to feel like you're making meaningful change.

SPEAKER_03 12:51

Yeah, I think I think it's massive. I think particularly amongst my generation, Gen Z and kind of the bottom end of millennials, you're seeing workplace trends where impact is really important to people. Yeah. Not to say that you know, career progression, everything else isn't, but impact is sort of coming out as increasingly important, probably in quite the uncertain world that we're in. So for me to be able to kind of action what I want and what I think I'm seeing develop in the business and kind of being given that autonomy to just try it, it's it's really unique.

SPEAKER_06 13:23

Well, you mentioned in a conversation that we had yesterday that you previously worked for a different business that was perhaps older and more established, um, sort of further down its corporate journey. Um, and you said something very telling, which was that you felt like you'd have to be there for half a decade in order to be able to make meaningful change.

SPEAKER_03 13:44

Yeah, it was sort of, you know, if I wanted to do something, we'd have to go up eight different lines of approval and then all the way back down again, and then exec don't want that anymore. So then I've waited weeks to kind of hear that back. And yeah, like you said, I'm gonna have to be there five years to get to a position where I can put ideas in front of people like James and Gretchen. Whereas Titan from day one, you know, James and Andrew's goal and will continue to be their goal is to keep that org quite flat, despite how it grows, to enable people like me to kind of walk in with those ideas.

SPEAKER_06 14:15

Well, it allows people to be entrepreneurial within a bigger business structure, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_05 14:19

Sorry. Sorry, um, yeah. So I mean that's exactly when when um James mentions not being a corporate, I think that's how we're trying to translate it in the sense of corporates, you need to ask, you know, you need to ask permission to go up and speak to the CEOs. And so whilst we will have to have certain you know, processes and procedures in place because organizations of our size do, we never want to have that where you have to ask permission, as Laura has said. Yeah, and so that's why I do think that's a you know what when James James says the whole corporate piece, I totally agree. Yeah.

Reducing acquisition uncertainty

SPEAKER_06 14:52

And so Laura, you come from this from quite a scientific background, really, don't you? Can you tell me a little bit about how um we can reduce uncertainty that people might experience during that acquisition process when they're transitioning from their previous business and coming under the Titan umbrella?

SPEAKER_03 15:12

Yeah, you're right. I kind of come from a behavioural science and psychology background, and a lot of the research kind of around MA looks at the emotional experience throughout that journey. And whilst there's definitely a lot of excitement and possibilities, there's this kind of slightly strange phenomena where change is often felt as loss, and you know, as humans we're incredibly sensitive to loss. So managing that for people is really hard, and I think something that Titan is putting, you know, a lot of investment into trying to do better. And I think the best way to do that is through kind of really open and honest communication from the beginning, being so proactive in that. Um, and and part of that is almost if you imagine a timeline, you know, where both your companies are kind of going through kind of storytelling and vision, kind of where do you come together and how do you keep going forward in the same direction, kind of merging? Um, but I know, yeah, our change team that I think have also done a podcast on this, uh, are putting a lot of investment into how we can go about communicating that and answering those 101 questions that someone has so they don't have to sit with that uncertainty. Um, but it's not easy, and it's yeah, definitely quite an emotional roller coaster for people.

SPEAKER_01 16:20

Can I just add to that? It's quite an interesting question and I'll ultimately answer as well. Um, I think as you get bigger in a normal corporate, what you would do is you'd lose the ability, you know, the perception that we would sit in our ivory towers, Andrew and I, and look down. I I mean, it couldn't be further from the truth. I mean, you know that we end up all over the place working all hours, God sent it.

SPEAKER_06 16:43

Be bored up there in an ivory tower.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

I mean, I do think in one day it might be quite nice, but the reality is no, absolutely not. Um the advancement of doing podcasts, getting out there, um, the advancement of technology is actually allowing us to do this. I mean, this is fantastic. I think this is great because you can speak to people in uh hopefully people will listen to the podcast. Um, I'd love to know what the take up rates are going to be across the board and who gets the highest marks. That's what I want to see. I'd like to see a scoring system. Oh, a rating, yeah, yeah. Exactly. Then, oh no, not having them on. Absolutely not. Oh yes, we want them. I think it would be rather good. Um and then we can have a celebrity, um, something or other. Uh celebrity podcast, that's what it would be. Um I think these are all really interesting factors. We've learned there's a human, huge human side to this business. I mean, it is base, it it sounds like we're not sell we're selling a service. So the service is actually looking after clients and um, or clients' money, should I say. And the reality is, is that all our technology, our knowledge that we've acquired by acquiring all these businesses goes into how it affects the client, how it affects the people, as Laura's just said, that we're acquiring and been partnering with. It would be fascinating to actually go back and evaluate how, let's just look at the Ravenscroft purchase, how the AHR purchase, how the Cardale purchase, how Prism, etc., etc. It would be quite fascinating to see how we would do it now as to how we did it then and the impact. Now I'm pretty aware that yours was a fairly smooth transition. Um and yes, I think the loss piece is quite an interesting one. Um apprehension is another word I would use rather than the unknown, isn't it? It's the unknown. Yeah, yeah. And and the biggest issue, by the way, in relation to when you're doing acquisitions, is that normally the top bots don't let you anywhere near the minions, as it were. And that's part of the problem. Whereas if what do you think I I think the way that we uh actually are is that we actually like to get to know the minions, as it were, and the people there I shouldn't use that terminology, but anyway. Um listen employees. Uh employees. No, but you see, I think uh I think minions is just fun because it's uh um I think and and that's who you really want to know. Yeah. Because the top bots might be going or they might be Well the employees are the people doing all the work. The work correct, absolutely, and that's really critical. And so I think from we always joke that I'm head of HR and uh and uh but I think people are so important in this business, and having that right culture then ties in, and uh how um Laura's come to join us, which is absolutely fantastic, and using the behavioral piece to it, it adds into other insights. So technology, um this is media, isn't it? I suppose this is media, how we get out and about because there is only finite one, two, three, four. It's very difficult. You it's quite hard spreading. You're you know, we'll be three thousand people by the end of this year.

SPEAKER_06 19:57

So let's dig down into that culture a bit more then, James, because I think we're very open as a business, um, as I alluded to at the start, that our culture is not finished, it's not rolled out to people um with a handbook on you know how to be a titan. Why do you think that openness and that sort of and being candid about the fact that our culture is a work in progress, why do you think that's important?

SPEAKER_01 20:18

It's self-deprecation to a degree, because we can't always be bright. And much as I love to think that I'm always right, and I'm sure I've been told many times, but um the reality is that we're not, we get things wrong, we've got things wrong in the past, and what you do is you hopefully learn from it. And I think if people can accept that, I think it allows people to grow as well. I think um the work that we're doing on this front, and Gretchen and I and Nora have been working on something in terms of some management um tools that we're using. Um I think that will help us develop people. It's not really about Andrew, myself, Damien Ken. It's about getting people to uh we can affect certain parts to us. And Andrew deals with all a lot of the finance with Ken. Okay, so they have that thing. Damien has a lot more knowledge on the financial planning side. That's great. We he's got experience. And that's not to say that anyone over 50 has a shitload of experience at all. But what it but it in our case it probably is. There is a working all the way down. I don't know what the youngest member of the staff is. 18? Have we got 18 year olds? Uh potentially. I I think we've got to give them the ability to rise and ambition uh and drive, and we need to set that scene to do it. And we need to uh uh get people who will see our vision. So vision culture, um, they're inextricably linked and buying into their future as well.

SPEAKER_05 21:50

But I think being transparent it is a uh you know, it builds a sense of trust in a for the younger generation, as as um, you know, James is saying. I think being honest and in saying to them, you know, we don't have it right also is in a way an invitation to say, come and tell us what we're getting wrong. You know, to Laura's point earlier, there's a different generation, they want different things, and we don't know always what that is, and we can't define a culture without that feedback. So that's also why it's important to be honest. We don't know everything, as Shane says.

SPEAKER_06 22:23

Yeah, and I think it comes back to what you were saying about impact. And I think that being presented with an unfinished product that's a work in progress allows employees to feel that they can have an influence. Exactly that can be a part of shaping what that looks like.

SPEAKER_03 22:38

Yeah. And I don't think you could walk into any company, no matter how successful and happy its employees were, and they would ever say their culture was finished and perfect. It's sort of this always hypothetical end state that you want people to always be working collaboratively together to kind of to achieve and to buy into.

unknown 22:56

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 22:57

Yeah.

Values that guide real work

SPEAKER_06 22:58

So we um state our values as being creativity, collaboration, and commitment. Well tied, isn't that? I know. Correction. How do you see those manifesting in real life in day-to-day work? You know, what does collaboration actually look like on a on a now global scale?

SPEAKER_05 23:17

So collaboration is communication as well, in the sense of we collaborate and communicate with all different parts of the business. So we don't forget that we have in you know individuals in other parts of the business doing something similar, um, and bringing them with you know, if there's a project or aligning with them on and making sure we're communicating and engaging with one another. So that's the basic level of collaboration. Creativity is always an interesting one, especially in our space. People, you know, we've had people go creativity in a regulated space, that can be a bit strange. Um, but what we're trying to say there is around creativity and innovation, thinking differently, not creative in in the sense that maybe you would think creative, but innovation within the governance and the the regulated space and ask questions. Um don't just assume the way I did something before is the way I should do it going forward. We know um, you know, that there are always ways to improve and we need to innovate and be creative with our solutions um moving forward. And then commitment to me and to the rest of you know, I've I've had a lot of conversation around what is commitment, um, because some people see commitment as a very different thing, but for us, commitment is commitment to the to Tyson, not the business only, but the people that we work with and moving it forward, you need to be committed to the cause, and in order to be part of a team, anybody does. So, you know, that's why I see it in terms of if we're a successful business, we are committed to one another. Um, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 24:52

Do you have anything to add to that on the values front?

SPEAKER_03 24:55

No, I think kind of again it it all sort of ties back to how you pull people together towards like this vision and this mission, and there are those three values that kind of people build off, but I think we've also found that while they are kind of written down, people do tend to feel them naturally sort of in their own way. So definitely on this on the right tracks.

SPEAKER_06 25:16

Um, is always I know what you mean about creativity. People think, well, hang on, you work in in a finance business. What do you mean creativity? But actually, a lot of our creativity in our particular side of the business has come from creating new client solutions. So clients come to us and say, Is this what I'm trying to achieve? And we'll say, Hold the line caller, let's see what we can do. You know, we try to come up with uh creative ideas and how we can help them.

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Go back there. What was your first question was collaboration? And I think collaboration was the interesting bit. You you have created something in terms of the periodic table. I'm not going to steal the thunder from the summit, but the reality is, is you've created something with collaborating with other parts of the business to show what we do across the business.

SPEAKER_06 26:00

I mean, I can't take any credit for that. I just shone the spotlight on the people that had really done all the work and had all the good ideas.

SPEAKER_01 26:08

And so and creativity. And I think that's what we're about. And we're trying, because there are parts of this business that don't know what other parts are doing, and it comes together with one item, it comes with some unity, collaboration, creativity, and then communicating it is the end game. I hate using all these three thesis, but anyway.

SPEAKER_06 26:26

I think commitment to colleagues is a really important one as well. And actually, Tom Grogan on his podcast, which will probably come after this, um, he talked about you know building really meaningful relationships with his colleagues and feeling like you know, when you put the effort in, you get so much more out. And feeling that he would go the extra mile for people that he's met with in the business now, having built those personal relationships, I think that's a really important part of it, isn't it?

SPEAKER_05 26:51

Yeah, exactly.

Commitment and team fit

SPEAKER_06 26:54

Um James, what kind of behaviours tend to undermine commitment as a as a business grows? Like what sort of troubleshooting can we, you know.

SPEAKER_01 27:09

Yeah, yeah. I don't know whether we want to go here. Um, it's been a uh a very busy four and a half years. We've had all sorts happen over the period of time, which we won't go into specific circumstances. Um I think team is everything. I think that is uh, and you've both just touched on it and relationships in Tom and Grogan. Um uh how he is listen, there's a lot of friends that are created at work. And uh and we've gone on about this in sort of five-day week back in the office. It's not just about being in the office for being in the office's sake. The reality of it is that you're creating friendship groups. Uh Christian's cringy as I'm saying this, and I know that. Um but she loves hanging out with us. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But she knows I was gonna say nudge nudge. Um the the reality is that think about it, how many uh close relationships. I I've moved to Guernsey, as you know, and uh, I mean, I classify people as friends uh at work, and you create friendship groups. Fine, they're not your best friends from school, and that's definitely not the case, but you you've got friends and you you spend hours with them. I mean, we spend 12 hours a day with most of our colleagues and friends around around the offices. And I think this is the bit that I go on to it is fun, and you can spot people that are not in that sort of zone. I think that's so there are when you say troubleshooting, I mean we've got to be very careful with how we do it, but there are definitely um people that you wouldn't automatically hire out there. Um, and I think that's part of our so let's just go back to acquisitions because that's where sometimes they come uh people come from. You've what you've got to do is you've actually got to get them. Are they gonna come and join the team? Are they being naturally cynical, all the rest of it, to the system that we're doing? Are they fighting and pushing against it? The reality is I think we're quite an open business. I think we accept where we have false so, we accept where we can get better. But if somebody's coming at us, as it were, uh in animosity, I think the reality is that we all hunker down, we've got a great team effect across the management, across all the staff. Um I've I I I think every acquisition that we've done, and the group now at heart last year's summit, which was December the 17th, if I'm not mistaken. 19th, I think. It was the 19th, sorry, okay, 19th. Um was, I think, exceptional. You saw people coming from all walks of life, as it were, all parts of the world, and I think that was unity at itself and Timo. And I think we constantly push ourselves to deliver almost our we can't create our culture, but our culture back to everybody because it's almost a uh it's almost a loop, it's a circle of life.

SPEAKER_06 30:18

If you've got great people, they create the culture themselves, don't they?

SPEAKER_01 30:21

Absolutely.

AI as part of the workforce transformation

SPEAKER_06 30:23

So I'd like to talk a little bit about AI, um, because this is quite a specific part of your role and your remit, Laura. So you describe AI as a kind of workforce transformation rather than a tech change. Um, what does that what does that mean? What does that mean for people?

SPEAKER_03 30:39

Yeah, I think you know, with any with any major tech transformation, you could throw all the money in the world at getting the best tools for people, but if people don't fundamentally see the need, don't use the tools well, or just don't want to, they're kind of they're slightly redundant. So I guess while you know there is tech underpinning it, what you're actually asking for is for people to change how they do their jobs, what their kind of identity means at the jobs, their work-life balance, the whole thing shifts. And you need to kind of equip people to go on that journey because you see so many CEOs just throw loads of money into all the AI subscriptions that you can have, and the uptake is really rubbish, and they're a bit surprised as to why. Um, and there's kind of a whole body of like literature coming out at the moment as to like, well, why aren't people using it and using it well? And some people are kind of saying that you know, our whole lives through education, through our workforce, we've always been taught to answer the questions that our bosses or our teachers are giving us. But with AI, it's really about well, how do you even ask a good question? So, with that, you need to tell people, you need to educate them, and kind of with the uncertainty that comes with AI with all the different headlines that you see coming out with their own agendas, you need to take time to take people through that process. And it's it's not an easy process, and it's not kind of a one-time, one-touch, great, we're all happy now. It's you know, James is and sort of a wider team putting a lot of resources into taking people on that journey to try and help with the uptake, help with the uncertainty, and help kind of with this really unique opportunity to upskill themselves. Because as far as we know, AI is not going anywhere in the wider world. So it's kind of how do you take people on that journey to better equip themselves for what's to come?

SPEAKER_06 32:24

So, how how is Titan doing that and what can our employees expect from that process?

SPEAKER_03 32:28

Yeah, I mean, depending on when this comes out, you know, watch the space. Um, but again, yeah, as I said, there's you know a lot of investment going around into kind of in-person training where you can ask, you know, all of the questions that you might feel a bit silly asking, but chances are everyone else in the room is also kind of also wondering the same things as you know, what this means, what this doesn't mean, what are we using, what are we not using, why is also quite a you know common question. Um, and helping people actually upskill and find the value kind of beyond help redraft my email, which you know is very important and you know, I'm sure many people use. But what are those actual real use cases, those value add points that while we're doing all these acquisitions and the workload is is so high for people, here's this really unique opportunity to take away some of that boring admin and kind of free up the space for the higher level kind of tasks where we can collaborate with each other to kind of actually really drive business in a meaningful way. Um, so lots of in-person things coming around all the different offices depending on when this is coming out. Um, but again, not a one-time solution. And I think there's going to be a very proactive engagement with the workforce kind of throughout this to support them.

SPEAKER_01 33:38

It has to be perpetual. You can't just do one-time, as Laura's saying. I mean, I I think there's a to a degree there's an industrial revolution or second industrial revolution going on that's being quoted. People are calling it, yeah, industry 5.0. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Um and it's quite fascinating, and different businesses get uh affected in different ways. By the way, it's a very interesting one. I had a conversation yesterday. The US deals with it in a slightly different way to what we do. Um, yeah, and this is where I think Laura's um quote has come from, which is PwC, who quoted that basically CEOs have just thrown money at it, uh, with with basically expecting people to do nothing. 70% of businesses in the US have failed at this process, it hasn't been adopted. We then, what we've tried to do and how we're going to go forward, is whatever launch we do, it's an education. It's even is it's asking the silly questions that you feel embarrassed to ask. Uh, you know, what's this going to do? What's it gonna do with my job? How's it gonna do this? X, Y, and Z. The other thing it's also gonna teach us, which is the more practical bit, is asking the uh co-pilot in our case what we actually asking it the right questions, not please redraft my letter or email or whatever it happens to be. It's using that and the knowledge of how to ask it certain questions, because it does learn from you. It literally learns, and the benefits to making life are a lot easier. We're not here, I mean, the work-life balance is a really interesting one because I do know, and you've got people in your team that work stupid hours all the time, and they're never not at their desk and they're answering silly queries. What we need to be able to do is help people have actually free them up a little bit. Do you stress that element to it? For people who are in a different role, for I'm gonna call it sales, but advice, give them the ability to actually speak to their clients more, be proactive. Come that is where we're trying to go. We're trying to grow the business more. And uh Andrew used it again, I'm gonna come back to it. He used the word enable, and that's what we're trying to do is enable. And so if you don't put in the infrastructure behind it with uh the Laura's, the David Rollo's, Gretchen's, forget me out of this, the people that are because I have a my basic understanding of it is is limited. But structurally, I get where we're going and what we need to do.

SPEAKER_06 36:06

It's been quite nice sitting in my position and kind of looking from the outside in on all this because you know, I've chatted a lot to Greg, who's been very clear that you know, Titan's view is not that AI will replace people, but that people that use AI will replace people that don't use AI. And then Titan says, and as that's our mantra, we're going to provide you all with the opportunity to upskill, come on that journey with us. You know, we're giving you all the tools you need, but then it's on you to brilliant quote, that's it. Adopt them and uh and move forward with them. So it's really nice to see that Titan is putting that out there and then supporting people on that journey.

Progression without a corporate ladder

SPEAKER_06 36:45

Um, I would like to talk a little bit now about um supporting people through progression, Gretchen, and about how we grow and develop amazing talent within our business. Because of course, if we have great people, we we want to keep them, right?

SPEAKER_05 36:59

Yeah, exactly. So we don't have at this stage formal training um plans in in the way that you may be seeing a corporate, and it is something we're all very much aware of, but that does not mean that we're not committed to to helping others progress. So, what we do at this stage in terms of our evolution from a training and development point, we've asked, you know, we're expecting individuals to stand, you know, to come forward and say, I want to study this, I want to do X, Y, and Z, I want, you know, have conversations with their managers, with others, um, be curious about what opportunities are available. Um, yes, we will hope soon hopefully get to a point where you know there's a more strategic place in terms of the way that you can follow through different trainings. Um, but I think part of what we are looking for is that curiosity in terms of what can I achieve, what options are there? Um. So we want individuals to, you know, I don't want to be able to tell some somebody like Laura you have to do X, Y, and Z to get to there. I want her to feel the freedom to go through the play, you know, the different steps to get to where she wants to by collaborating in the way that she needs to with different individuals and senior managers, asking to study certain um, you know, any kind of qualification. So we're more open about progression um in the sense of any formal training, but they are obviously the more specific avenues looking at what's available on just in terms of vacancies. Everybody's always welcome to to put their hand up and say, Well, I think I can do that. We don't expect uh what individuals to be always the the most uh you know the perfect picture when it comes to roles, so we're happy to for for people to put themselves forward.

SPEAKER_06 38:42

And there are so many different roles at Titan, aren't there? There's so many different career paths that actually it would be quite difficult to be prescriptive and say, I mean, it's you can obviously do it with financial planning or investment management, but there are so many operational roles that don't necessarily have a distinct pathway, hey?

SPEAKER_01 38:57

We should always hire internally. Without a shadow of a doubt, if we're 1400 people going to 3,000, we should definitely um uh AR internally first and foremost. That's just it's fairly simple. I'd like to actually start kite surfing, please, could I have kitesurfing lessons for you? Well you can kite surf. I don't know. I'm having more.

SPEAKER_04 39:21

Yeah, everything of the business then we're happy to.

SPEAKER_06 39:24

Yeah. Then Laura, just coming back to the psychology behind progression, then, what really motivates people beyond job titles and progression ladders?

SPEAKER_03 39:35

Yeah, I mean, like I sort of touched on earlier, it it's one of those that it does vary by generation, and obviously there are kind of individual differences within that, and it's hard to always account for everyone specifically.

SPEAKER_06 39:46

Have you studied that then during your your education and your training?

SPEAKER_03 39:50

Have you looked at how different generations um briefly, yeah, you've got a big kind of emerging literature with sort of lots of studies kind of by the big consultants as to, you know, like what do people even really want? Um, and it's quite it changes quite rapidly, I think, as it reflects sort of the outside world. But yeah, kind of coming back to what I said earlier, you've seen that study that uh Gen Z, kind of 80 to 90 percent of people are saying that impact and purpose in their work is now you know really correlated with that kind of sense of fulfillment and purpose and how much they enjoy their job. Um, so again, kind of with that org structure, with kind of buying into Titan's value and its mission and its kind of entrepreneurial spirit, it's kind of enabling that on top of, I guess, you know, the the internal hiring and the kind of standard um incentives that you get in an organization.

SPEAKER_06 40:44

And James, then I know that you have discussed this on uh your previous podcast, but I think it would be a really nice tie-in

What it takes to succeed in a growing wealth management business

SPEAKER_06 40:51

here. Um if I ask you, what does it take to really succeed at Titan? What are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_01 41:02

I get I think I give the same answer again. I think um you work hard, you put yourself in the right position to have creative ideas that bring forward. Um I I I've always gone on the basis that um and again I'm going back to my previous answer with Andrew. When we were in when we started work in the 80s and in the early 90s, I know that's how long ago it is, and some of you weren't even born. Um the reality of it um is that our first days at work were probably the happiest days of our lives because you were you were the you were the grunt at the bottom of the uh chain. It depends where you started in in sort of what type of business. And you had fun and you you went to work, you wanted, you needed to earn a crust, you needed to earn your I think my first salary was £3,000 and a year. And you know, I look back now and go crikey. Um but what drives you forward is the ambition. Uh I had a great set of people around me. Um I don't think I was given what I would call uh a fixed career or or path. Um I think that um we encourage everybody. If you use somebody is, you know, we're quite a flat structure, so we see what's coming out through the mix, and the cream will always rise to the top. I always use that. Um, and whether in a good way or in a bad way, but you really you do pick people um and on on their ethics, on their moral fibre, how they interact. And I think we've got you know we've got some young people in this group, but I'm using I'm gonna go young because you can see them rising already. And I hear comments left, right, and centre about certain people, and you go, wow, okay, that's really impressive. I like that. And and then you get into, I think career progression, funnily enough, in the sort of 40s age group, is is a difficult one because how do you it it let's say you're in sales or or in advice, I think then you in which case you're targeted and you have a uh there's ways to look at that. Um, and that again rises within that um process. I think we're always spotting. Andrew, I, Damon, Ken are all north of 55. We ain't gonna be here forever and a day. And if I'm looking at you, Gretchen, Tiff, Dave, uh, I could go through a whole list, Mike, um, Mike, uh, uh, Greg, blah, blah, blah. And I keep on going. The reality is, is that there are so many roles for people to step up into. We cover everything as a as a group, as a global group and positioning. It allows people to move around, it moves up and across and change direction as well. So um I think we're open to that. And I would say that is the advantage that Titan has, is we're open to that. We listen. The flat structure allows people to get through uh and speak to us. Um, I won't give my WhatsApp number out um to everyone, but I I mean historically we've communicated via WhatsApp with a lot of people. I mean, there are, you know, whether it be IWP, whether it be um, which obviously is now Titan, so it is Titan. Most people have got some form of access into it, into the management team in one way or another. And so I would say that I would always encourage to get ahead, if get ahead is the wrong word, to to to get their ideas out, collaborate and um speak.

SPEAKER_06 44:54

But there's a real opportunity there for people to feel like they can create their own path at Titan.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

I think it's a very I hope so. I'd almost put it back to the three of you.

SPEAKER_05 45:04

I would say I know James uh phrases as work hard. And then people can perceive that as well change that. Well, people can perceive that as you saying, you know, get up, work, go to bed, work, but I don't think it's too that's what we're trying to portray. What we're trying to say is, you know, work hard, be committed in what you're doing, ask questions, speak to others, look for opportunity. Um, because like I said earlier, we don't have a formal training plan. And maybe we will get there one day, maybe we won't, maybe we'll feel well, actually, we don't need to. We want individuals to find their own way. And that's the the exciting part about Tyson. You know, you can, it's there for the taking, as I like to say to people, but we maybe because we don't have time, because we're so busy integrating and doing other things, or maybe just because that's the type of individuals we're looking for in the business, can't always show you that what exactly is there for the taking.

SPEAKER_06 46:00

Well, this has been a fantastic conversation, guys, about culture, about AI, change, and opportunities. So thank you very much for your time. Thank you.