We Might Get In Trouble For This

Episode 5 - Christian Girl’s Guide to Divorce, Part 1

• We might get in trouble for this Team • Season 1 • Episode 5

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0:00 | 45:37

Divorce and faith—can they coexist? In Part 1 of this honest and unfiltered conversation, Kerri and Suze share their personal experiences navigating marriage, heartbreak, and the pressure of divorce in Christian culture. From counseling fails to defining the moment you know it’s time, this episode is raw, funny, and deeply real.

Part 2 coming next.

Timestamps

00:00 – Intro + chaos in the closet
05:00 – Topic: The Christian Girl’s Guide to Divorce
10:00 – Marriage stories + how we got here
15:00 – Counseling fails + real struggles
20:00 – Guilt, faith, and staying too long
25:00 – Breaking point + support systems
32:00 – “Enough” moment + clarity
35:00 – Pastors vs. real counseling
41:00 – Final thoughts + Part 2 teaser

Before we go, if this conversation brought anything up for you, you’re not alone. Divorce can feel overwhelming—especially when faith is part of your story—but there is support. Here are a few trusted resources if you need help or someone to talk to:

Focus on the Family (counseling + faith-based support) - https:www.focusonthefamily.com⁠

DivorceCare – https://www.divorcecare.org⁠

BetterHelp (online counseling) – https://www.betterhelp.com⁠ National Domestic Violence Hotline – Call or text 988 or visit https://www.thehotline.org⁠

You can always reach us at:

wemightgetintroubleforthis@gmail.com

More at: https://www.kerripom.com⁠

Follow us: Instagram: https://www.kerripom.com⁠https://www.instagram.com/wemightgetintroubleforthispod⁠

Facebook: https://www.kerripom.com/https://www.facebook.com/wemightgetintroubleforthispodcast⁠

We’re so glad you’re here.

Part 2 is coming next.

If you want, I can tailor the resource list to be: more faith-based only more therapy/mental health focusedor even add co-parenting + legal resources depending on your audience. 

SPEAKER_00

Hello, and welcome to another episode of We Might Get in Trouble for This with your hosts Carrie and Suze. And Susie is coming to us live from my closet. Yes. You're not coming out of the closet this episode. You're staying in the closet. Why? It's spring break and my kids are home. And where else would you be? But in the closet. No problem. But in the closet. No drink, though. My week has consisted of my homeschooled senior daughter who told me she doesn't want to go to her homeschool graduation, which I'm like, fine, don't care. She doesn't want to wear a cap and gown. I'm like, fine, don't really care. And then I convinced her to have a graduation party. And then she said, but it needs to be small. And I said, Have you met me? I don't do small. I'm going to do a small quintine era wedding with 115 of our closest, most intimate friends and a band and a DJ. Just intimate, Susie. Just intimate, uh, just intimate. And they all are going to bring cash for my daughter, which is that's how we do the guest list. Who will have cash? So yeah, that's what I'm I'm planning, and it's aviation theme because my daughter's going to be a pilot. And I keep telling myself, I won't go overboard. I won't go overboard. And remember when I went to Africa and I came home and I quit Timu? Well, I'm back. I'm back on the I'm back on the juice. I'm back on the Timu because I'm buying decorations uh from the great country of China. Uh so yeah, so it's it's happening, it's aviation. I'll fly away. Uh we're doing blue, blue, satin, blue. We're doing a runway, and her sister is dressing up like a flight attendant, and we're having a dirty soda bar. So uh we will tag my friend Denise's dirty soda bar. If you don't know what it is, it's the new thing, it's not alcohol, it's dirty soda, it's adorable. So that's my how how fun.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, you should come. It's gonna be a oh my gosh, I would totally come. That sounds like a blast. I did also, I loved Cincinnatias growing up. Oh my gosh, it's so much fun.

SPEAKER_00

I don't even care if Lucy attends, like it's really not about her. Like she can come or not. I'll be I'm hosting, you know. I just want a DJ in my backyard, so uh that's my week. And you've been uh avoiding children. How's that going?

SPEAKER_02

Um, fine. Um, I will say, I know the joke is to avoid children. I my kids are freaking rad. I really, really like them. They're really good people. And I was we were at my mom's for a little bit because there was a family holiday, and um, and my mom was like, she seemed like a little not not shocked, but she was like, Your kids are really great people. And I was like, I know. Why is that surprising? They're my kids. I feel like they would be good people, you know. But I will say, I would just like to talk about my morning because it was very ADHD. Tell me. So my hair, everyone is used to see my hair really curly. Yeah, right, my hair in my natural state. So I love it.

SPEAKER_00

I love it.

SPEAKER_02

It is straightened today. Can I tell you why it's straightened? It is straightened because you straightened it. Well, I wouldn't have. But I uh washed my hair with dub body wash today. And I I was like, why is it not drying? Why is it not drying? And so then I had to blow it dry and then to and then it straightens, obviously, because I'm blowing it dry, because I have one of the things that's like a it's a brush and the thing, the brush and a hairdryer. And then um, and then it still wouldn't dry, and so then I had to use dry shampoo. So so that's why but that's why it's straight.

SPEAKER_00

That's just reminding me before we get to our very important topic of my friend Gina called me yesterday. She was visiting her dad, and her dad has no kids in his house, he's kind of older, he lives alone, and on the back of his toilet, he has those sanitary wipes. You know how like it's more sanitary to use the wipes. So she's using the sanitary wipes, and something feels a little hot and a little burning, and she likes that they're Clorox wipes. So Clorox is now putting her white square container, which I blame Clorox. I don't think Clorox should be in the square container on top of the toilet. So she is fresh and clean all over for sure.

SPEAKER_02

Like super fresh. Honestly, I don't know. I mean, I would never use the Clorox wipes on my body, but honestly, I I mean I don't mind a burn to be clean anywhere on my body, actually. We know this is a whole near situation.

SPEAKER_00

I used to veneered my face, and I put those VPL wipes on my face seven days ago and I paid money for it. I could have used the Clorox for free. I really feel like I can use the Clorox, but it gives you the same effect. But um, yeah, so speaking of being beautiful and wonderful, we have an amazing topic today. Um we do, which we're totally gonna get in trouble for, but we'll try not to. It's called The Christian Girl's Guide to Divorce. Are we going to hell? Um in short, we don't know. We'll let the listeners decide.

SPEAKER_02

But I know, but it wouldn't be about getting divorced. But I do find that verse in the Bible really terrifying. When you like get to heaven, you're like, but we did all these things for you. And the Lord is like, I never knew you. That one, I still worry about it a lot. I mean, I talk to the women's group about it. I'll be like talking about theology, and then I'm like, by the way, is anyone else afraid?

SPEAKER_00

I really do really mean things. Like I had this mechanic who ripped me off recently. He literally like took money and ghosted me, as the Gen Z would say. He literally took money and ghosted me. Um, and I'm like, you know what? You're gonna have to answer to God at one point or another when you stand before him. He's gonna be like, You ripped off that nice single mom in California. Uh and his name rhymes with Mike. So uh, okay, Mike. But anyway, so it's really bizarre because neither of us, I mean, we have different marriages. I was married for 10 years. How many years were you married for your first marriage?

SPEAKER_02

I think we were technically married four or four and a half, but we were together for we must have been married four years and a couple months before we separated. What we were together for eight and a half years.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, I was married for 10 years, and I think three of those years we were separated like in and out, in and out. But uh, you got married at the age of Zygoat, super young, and I got married at you know, old lady 31. So it was different perspectives, right? Because I was 31 when I got married.

SPEAKER_02

I was 27 when I actually got married, but I was 20, uh-huh. Yep, but I was 21 when I met him, 23 when we started dating. And then, and and I mean, this is a good example. So when we're dating, well, when before we were dating, I was dating someone else. I'm so sorry. I was dating someone else the whole other time, but I really like and so I would just I would write in my my journal all the time, like, dear God, dear God, please let me marry this guy. Like, first, first ex-husband. I only have one ex-husband. We'll call him Joe. We'll call him Joe. Joe. So, and I would like write in my journal, dear, please help me marry Joe. Please help me marry Joe. Please help me marry Joe. And so, um, and then, you know, like for 18 months, I would write about this guy, and then I kind of was like, okay, God, well, thank you for not letting me marry him, whatever. And then I ran into him at a fundraiser.

SPEAKER_00

And all of my ex-boyfriends had a lot in common. Um, it's kind of a joke, but my one of my first boyfriends ended up working in the White House and is now vice president, one of the biggest banks of um oh like New York.

SPEAKER_02

Wait, you dated DJ Vance?

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, he looks January. No, he looks like JFK Jr. I kid you not. I can't say his name. He's literally like the one boyfriend that I can't talk about on stage because he's still like in government, but he's like gorgeous. And then the second boyfriend helps start a little company called Yahoo, and he has really where when he's dating when he got all his life. He's so he's so the other one sold his software company for 200 million dollars. This is not a joke. There's so I could start a law firm with all my Jewish ex like Listen, Kligman, Cohen. All yeah, all the yeah. So I I dated all these super, super successful, multi-million, gorgeous, great, whatever, passively bipolar. I mean, that was maybe the one common denominator. So fun though, so fun. And I married a comedian with no car. Hold on.

SPEAKER_02

Can I just note that um those were your this this shows like how differently we were raised and such different places? Because um my my one of my long-term boyfriends, this is just a great example. I'll just use this one. He was in a band, I'm pretty sure it was called Bad Panda. You know what I mean? If you've never heard of them, there's a reason. Great guys, though, great people.

SPEAKER_00

Well, the you ended up marrying to the man you're married to, the most stable, successful, like uh all my ex-boyfriends would have lined up with your husband now. Yes, uh, like financially all that. And I married a guy whose car broke down after two weeks of us dating, and he never got it fixed. I mean, I to the day I don't even know what this imaginary car was. And I I it's so funny because I always tell the girls I'm married for the wrong reason, love, and that is not uh a good enough reason. Just love now.

SPEAKER_02

I think also just love uh a lot of people get married for like trying to rectify wrongs, like you're in too deep and you're like, oh gosh, right? I will say the only reason, and then we can get back to divorce, but the only reason I ended up marrying my husband or even dating him is because my best friend was like, You're a bad picker. You just have to go against your nature.

SPEAKER_00

We have lived through each other's divorces on land. I met you when you were freshly divorced, then I was going through a divorce, and you became my roommate. So we have gone through, I've I've gone through all the cycles with you. I've gone through dating a friend of mine, uh, very charismatic, lovely. Uh going briefly, what briefly, very briefly. We do very casual. Like, and then I went through the whole dating with your current husband, which we can talk about. But I so I feel like it's a great thing that we've lived through this divorce thing that I never wanted to do. Now, I do want to say this as a Christian, working in ministry with my husband, Ron McGee, who I can totally say his name because we tour together now and talk about it. But hi, Ron! Hi, Ron. Ron would be on the podcast probably. But anyway, we toured together during comedy, during marriage conferences. We did a marriage of 25,000 people, and three months later we were separated. And let me not pretend that there wasn't drama going on the whole time, but I really thought in my heart of hearts, not only am I gonna lose like notoriety, I'm gonna lose my career, I'm gonna lose everything that I built in this name for myself, you know, Carrie Pomoli Ron McGee. The Christian world would blackball me, scarlet letters for me. I was homeless, penniless, living on the street in a van down by the river. Uh, and that might have kept me married for longer than maybe people thought I should have been married, but I really had this thing that like it was gonna be over for me in every way of life because the way that I'd been raised in the churches I'd been attending, it was like there were divorced people, but they weren't really talking about it. And the pastor that I was sort of sitting under when I was early married literally said, like, we don't get divorced. And I'm like, oh, really? Really, like, just we don't do it unless you're being, you know, beaten to the ground or cheated on repetitively. And so I just had this programming like, you gotta try harder, you gotta try harder. And um, as a divorced woman who's sitting here, and I hope that my listeners, our listeners gain anything from this podcast, I wish somebody had sat me down and told me that if it merits getting a divorce, and God tells you that, like you clearly hear from God, as I know I did, that you will be okay, that you will be more than okay. So if I can be an Obi-Wan Kenobi to anybody listening right now, I'm not advocating divorce, I'm not promoting divorce, but I'm sitting here as someone who survived divorce and come out the other side. I wish that I'd had the common sense to know that it wasn't all my fault and I wasn't a terrible person and God could still use me.

SPEAKER_02

I mean, I will I will advocate for divorce when it's when it's right. I really would I honestly honestly because it the amount of you know the amount of people I know whose children are far more traumatized, not you, because your kids have a great relationship with the people.

SPEAKER_00

My children have threatened us if we get back together, they will leave us.

SPEAKER_02

You guys are great friends, we are weird. We're really better friends. It can take the pressure off people sometimes, right? And I think you guys lucked out to really like each other, and I think that's very helpful.

SPEAKER_00

And I'm not gonna air all the dirty laundry, but I just want to say that each of us, I can't speak for anybody else in this whole wide world, but you and I had very valid reasons for getting a divorce. Our I think our divorces were sad, they were not hateful, they were not angry, like we were literally like wounded for our partners when things happened. We're not gonna go into all the details um on re by my book, but um, I haven't written it yet. But the thing is, I prayed to God so hard when I got divorced. Please don't let it hurt the kids. Please, we even, and I wanted to share this story. We have so many stories. We even went to counsel counseling. Okay, we went to counseling to say how kids were gonna get divorced, and we're poor comedians, so we could only afford you know those internship counseling centers where they're like, you're not gonna get a real counselor, but this girl has just gotten out of high school and she wants to be a counselor, and her name was Chanel. This is a true story, and I think she was like $11 an hour. Okay, I think she had had 30 minutes of counseling experience, and someone named this girl Chanel, and her daddy was like, You need a career before you get the trust fund. So she's sitting in a $12, $11 room with her, you know, her her Louis Vuittons, and she's looking to us talk. And I just had, you know, we had gone to one session, and the second session, I was like, I was mad at him, and I just started airing out all the dirty laundry of why we were getting a divorce. And he did this, and he and these are real things, like I said, by my someday, and he did this and he did this and he did this, and these were like real bad things. And Chanel goes, Ron, does it make you sad when Gary accuses you of sad things that just are really, really sad? And I like lost my marbles. I could she was like siding with Ron, like, and I just laid out, you know, he killed my cat, set the house on fire, and she's like, Does it make you sad? And I am not a woman that is very uh confrontive or confrontative if I'm gonna get in trouble for it. And I'm gonna say this on the podcast, and you can all judge me and whatever. My mother's taught me never to swear, my mother's taught me we don't say bad words. I steamed my head came off my shoulders and I said, F you, Chanel, and I walked out. I literally walked out, I couldn't believe it. Like a demon came out of my mouth, and I walked out, and five minutes later, Ron's calling me and he's laughing. And he goes, Chanel wants to know if we want a book for next week. And I'm just like, I can't. I told her to F. I couldn't believe it. I'm a Christian, I'm in ministry. I mean, I had hit, I could have F all the counselors of all the years, they wanted me to be 50% responsible for the things that have been done to me. I just couldn't. One more person telling me you better submit. I just lost my ever-loving marble. So, Chanel, if you're out there, you're the only person I've ever sworn at publicly. Uh, I'm very sorry uh that I did that. I know we did not rebook with Chanel.

SPEAKER_02

Um, so much to say, we have to need three parts because this is so exciting to talk about. Okay, can I just say that um uh I so I I do want to talk about my divorce. So the reason I will advocate for divorce is because um sometimes we're when when you get married young or you get married really broken, right? And and this is I have a massive amount of compassion for my ex-husband still because anyone that loved me that was willing to love me during that season of my life, I I really have a lot of great, you know, that that's amazing, you know what I mean? And um so I we can I had a lot of um depression issues. So I'll try to think of what I was saying. So say the reason I would advocate, do that. So the reason I would advocate for divorce, um I mean, truly there are multiple reasons. Obviously, we have biblical, very clear biblical things that talk about divorce, um, or reasons why to get, you know, people can be have the biblical grounds to get divorced. But I will advocate for it in the sense that we're not always making the best choices, number one, going into marriage for the f in the first place. And I have a lot of compassion for my ex-husband in the sense that for someone to love me during that season of my life, I think that was really incredible. I I really do see now from the uh outside, like I was a cute 23-year-old um actress, and I was, you know, I was funny and cute. Oh my gosh, 23? Goodness gracious. That was the reality, but that was not how I felt, right? So I I felt so much guilt for ending a relationship to start to date this guy, and really I had felt that such a need to be mature and responsible. Like for as long as I could remember, I needed someone in my life to be like, baby girl, you're 23, you're 22, you're allowed to break up with somebody. It's okay. You're allowed to go on a date with a guy and and not feel like you have to make them your partner. You're allowed to do those things. But I felt such an intensity of I never wanted to hurt anyone. And and I remember when that relationship with my ex-boyfriend, you know, I had ended it, and then I had kind of casually started to date my ex-husband. I remember my ex-boyfriend calling my mom crying and telling me, telling her something that we had broken up. I don't know if he was crying, or maybe she was crying. It was so I felt so terrible that I had done this horrible thing, even though he met his wife two weeks after we broke up. So I really also feel like you're welcome, right? But I remember feeling so much guilt. And so, no matter how bad my relationship with my first ex with my ex-husband was, it's like I deserved it because I had made someone else sad, and I had done that.

SPEAKER_00

And that's like that's that's totally so many girls probably were raised that way that probably came from some belief system that you had growing up with a single mom and how you came into the world, and like but it's so bad.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, right, and you add like low self-esteem.

SPEAKER_00

I'm sure you had low self-esteem.

SPEAKER_02

Such low self-esteem. Um, and and I look back on my life then and like I had so much going for me, and so many people cared about me, and so many people were were so willing to like build a ladder to anywhere I wanted to go, but you can't get past how you think about yourself, and then you will marry a person that mirrors that.

SPEAKER_00

Well, I married a dreamer that was mirrored to my father, by the way, um, in all the good ways. But I had we've talked about this, we've had opposite dad experiences. So I had like the dad that was like, You can walk on water if he doesn't love you, he's clearly an idiot. Yeah. Uh no, literally, and so I look back on this relationship that I had with Ron, and I'm like, but God, we did it right. We did all the Christian things, and like I really like we we did we did it right. I don't where were the red flags and all this stuff? The only thing I could possibly think of is that we were supposed to get married because I remember dating Ron and we did have a couple, you know, fights. I had a very specific moment when I was praying and we were in a fight, and I remember I heard God, I know this because I know my children are supposed. Be on this planet, God said, You can pick someone else, but I picked him because I am not his type. I am not a tall Asian woman. Okay. Like that is who he dated. He's Asian. He dated tall, sexy Asian woman. I was a short, chubby cheeked blonde girl. And he uh, you know, I just dated a lot of guys that were into tech and bio and politics and all this thing, and he's this comic. And we just took off running and we were both in our 30s, but I don't feel like I wasn't in a place to get married. I don't feel like I wasn't able to get married. So I literally have questioned myself like, I don't even think I picked the wrong guy. I think there was just so much warfare against me and Ron making it. I really believe that because we were a force to be reckoned with and we were public, and so many Christian couples that are public have such an attack on them from the enemy to when we were doing this marriage conference, the guy who runs it, huge Dennis Lapine or Bob Lapine and Dennis Rady, huge ministry. He's like, Don't get divorced, that happens to all the good ones, right? We got divorced. How many Christian couples were in ministry together and ministering? And maybe that was too big, and maybe we weren't focused on each other enough, or I don't know. I mean, there's all these other reasons, but I just look at it as like it was a war, and we lost that battle. Now we lose the whole war because ironically, we reconciled fourth layer and week, and we're actually doing comedy together, and we raised two beautiful girls in a weird, awkward, funny, co-parent way where we see each other seven days a week. But um, it's not how I pictured it. It's not at all how I pictured it, but God's like, I can still redeem, you know, and in a lot of ways it's intact.

SPEAKER_02

Um that's what I'm saying. Like, you may not have the label of husband and wife, right? Yeah, he still takes out my garden.

SPEAKER_01

He takes out my garden.

SPEAKER_02

But but I'm just saying, like, you guys have an intact family, which I think is really remarkable. And and honestly, even better than some marriages. Our family today is better than mine. That's exactly what I'm saying. That's exactly what I'm saying. And it's not that people, it's not that you ever want people to get divorced because divorce is an awful thing to go, it's an awful thing to go through. How I got to the point of getting divorced when you say it again.

SPEAKER_00

Remember that time we talked about it the other day. We have I was he was moving out. It was the day Ron was moving out, and you were moving in, and I lost my whole wallet of gift cards, and I didn't know if I was gonna get child support, and it was like all like everything was up in the air, and when you get divorced, you just get divorced, and you don't know if you're getting child support, you haven't gone to all those things, and I that was another moment that I lost my marbles, and you were there for me, and it was like that guttural reality of like this is happening, and I don't have Ron to lean on. I can't just call him. I lost all these gift cards, and how I'm gonna buy jeopers for the kids, and I can't just call my ex-husband and be like, hey, give me a hundred bucks. Like it was so guttural and painful. And thank God I had you. And I pray that if you are out there going through this, that you can just find one person, just one person to lean on. Like that can be all you need in this situation. It's awful, right?

SPEAKER_02

As as I was going through my my divorce, I'll tell like a really miraculous story of how God just continuously met me. It was so surreal. But I do remember after the divorce, after like the separation time, thinking, is he gonna be okay? It's like my whole there were some uh struggles with substances and um during my marriage on his time, and then I was bulimic. So that's also it's not easy to have a bulimic life, it's not easy to be bulimic. But that was kind of the way I dealt with um an unknown gluten allergy and my marriage. Um, but but um so so I always want to be very uh cautious. But when you when you're married to someone with substance abuse issues, you're really it's like it sounds so harsh because I wouldn't say choosing. I'm gonna say choosing for myself. I don't think a lot of women choose it. But I only knew relationships where there was some kind of wall between the man and woman, and that the wall wasn't really known. So it was so I could look at relationship in my marriage, and he was very honest when we first got married about not our first our date about not being a Christian, and I was adamant I didn't want to date a Christian because I thought Christian guys like I loved Jesus, but I was like, but Christian guys lie. So at least I can be with someone who's like not not being fake about morality, right? He just is who he is, he's not trying to be anyone else, you know what I mean? Except that we're all trying to be someone else in our 20s, you know what I mean? We're just growing and trying to figure it out. But there was something about being with someone or dating with someone who couldn't quite be there emotionally. So it was really easy for him to miss how depressed I was, for him to miss how bulimic I was, for him to miss all those things. And um, and I so how long story, how the miraculous parts of the divorce. Um so I I had I had come to him one day after church, after um an evening church that I'd gone to. And um I had well, I'll start here. So we were in a Bible study group together. By that time we had, you know, we had even mean celibate during our engagement. Like we had kind of gone on the straight and narrow and um we're doing all the right things, got married, um and about some time into it, I just can't be like became aware of something that was happening. Like it something was just not right, and I couldn't, I couldn't keep going. And I remember I was like, okay, well, we got to go to counseling again. And I called our counselor, so I went back to counseling, and right after that counseling appointment, our counselor called me. I guess it was the next day and was like, I I can't see you two anymore. And I was like, Oh, why? And he said, he said, I can't see you if he's drinking. And and I was like, Okay, so so he's like, he has to go to his own counselor, and you have to go to your own counselor, and then and then we can we can meet back. And I had never had someone say that to me, but this counselor was also the first counselor I ever had in all my years of going to counselor is that had heard my history with men and fathers and et cetera, et cetera, and had said to me, Oh my gosh, that's awful. I didn't know it was awful. I had no awareness of like, like it was just what so many of us went through. It didn't feel like it just felt like life. It didn't feel awful.

SPEAKER_00

Like, I didn't go through any of that. I'm coming from the opposite end of the spectrum, so I'm thinking I'm all healthy and perfect. And every counselor we went to would be like, Well, Carrie, and we had addiction issues as well, um, on his side, and they would look me straight in the eye and be like, Well, what did you do to cause him to be in this addiction? Yeah, I literally would have creation counseling. No one's saying like, would you like to read this book on biblical submission? And I was like, submit to what? Like, Haba. So it doesn't seem to matter when you're going through a divorce. Try this is what I want to say to our listeners. Try to find one source of knowledge and wisdom that you feel good about and stick to that. Because if you are hearing the wrong source of wisdom and it's not godly wisdom and it's not sitting right with you, trust your gut that that could be the Holy Spirit going, No, I did not cause this. I did not cause someone to go into their addiction, I did not cause someone to treat me in a way that is not okay. I did not cause that, and I'm not 50% responsible for this divorce.

SPEAKER_02

I think for sure. I think um, and that's where I think that's where also we come for different sides. You're going, I know I didn't cause this, like that's your innate thing. And I was going, and I had struggled even years after. I was the worst thing that ever happened to him. I was the worst thing that ever happened to him. It is so he was never seeing you going. He would, he would never, my ex-tep would never say I was the reason he drank. Ever. Ever. And he drank before you. For sure. But we all we were so young. He was drinking like my friends in college drank. I was just always a goody two shoes. But he was drinking like everyone kind of got over drinking. Do you know what I mean? Um, yeah, I mean, but I I like it.

SPEAKER_00

You were a great wife. I know all the stories now, you know, most of the stories. And I think if you were watching the movie back and somebody was playing, you would be like, like, okay, that girl did everything she could. And I I think I'm guessing most of our listeners are gonna be women at this juncture. And I don't want to bash men, I don't want to say it's always the man's fault. Oh, I do no, no, I mean, like from our perspective, we both have had wounded in some way partners. I do know that I was responsible for part of the divorce. I know that I just think that we shame ourselves and thinking we have to stay in a bad marriage, a bad situation that can be abusive. That, like I said, I'm not bagging Ron or Joe or John or your ex or whoever they were. That we are in a situation and we're like, well, if God really wanted me to leave, you know, a tower of fire would come down and burn the door. But sometimes it's not even like that. Sometimes it just gets to that point where God, for me, and like I know we're gonna have to do part two and part three about this topic, but what I want to say for me, there was a God moment. No counselor could give me a moment, and it was a moment that I remember where I was, what I was thinking, where I was in the house, the day, the hour, and God said, enough, enough. I will be your husband. Enough. And that was the moment. And I don't believe you can respectfully go through a divorce as a Christian unless you feel in your gut like that you're I want these women to feel like that they're okay. Do you know what I mean? They're not leaving because they want somebody better, and like the world's gonna be like, well, you suck because you initiated this divorce. I'm like, I didn't initiate anything, I initiated the health of my family and my children, and he and I both mutually agreed that this had to happen. But I'm gonna look like the bad guy.

SPEAKER_02

I'm gonna look like the bad guy. Man, I want to keep going so much, but I know our listeners are probably like, we have to do things. Um, but I I so mine, when we talk about this part two, my divorce came about. There were like there was a f almost a 12-hour miracle situation that happened. And then there were two distinct miracles that happened after. Because I could not, I could not get past me, I couldn't wrap my mind around being a Christian and moving and me being the one to move forward with a divorce. I couldn't do it.

SPEAKER_00

Oh, I don't mean to, and that's the same same problem. I was like, I I can't rub my head around this. That's such a great way to pin it. Like, there's women listening right now, they're like, but I'm a Christian, and how do I show my face in church on Sunday? How do I um I mean, I got so gossiped about. I was on the mom's club, people were gossiping. I'm like, first, and Brad's like Ron goes, should we do a press release? I was like, We're not Brad and Angelina of Christian comedy, but the fact that it spread like wildflower, and people were so our mutual friend Claire, who we love, this trick-or-treat a friend approached her, trick-or-treating with the kids. Did you hear about Boris who's getting the kids? Like the kids are trick-or-treating, and she's on the street, and Mrs. Kravitz of our neighborhood is trying to get the details. And I was gossiped about in the comedy community and all the thing. You know what? I could still lay my head down at night, and knowing that the Lord told me that I would be okay. And I think I want to hear your miracle story. I feel like we should probably save it for part two. I know. Is that okay? We should, because we'll do part two like right away. So maybe we'll publish these part one and part two together. But I want our listeners to know, uh, spoiler alert, that you and I are both thriving and and okay. More than okay, like better than okay. And I guess we're gonna have to leave it as a clip hanger. Uh, better than okay, you gotta listen to part two.

SPEAKER_02

Better than okay. And I will say two, uh, I will say two things before we go, unless we're putting this right together, but um real counseling is important, not pastoral counseling is not always appropriate.

SPEAKER_01

I did have a problem.

SPEAKER_00

I want to say this, and I I feel sorry for the pastors that are put in the position to be marriage counselors when my pastors would give their right arm to make these marriages work in their church. They would show up at my house, they would show up at people's houses. These pastors are not getting paid, they are selfless, but they are not equipped educationally to deal with every issue, polar disorder, substance abuse, addiction, uh, mental illness, uh, trauma. Like I feel so sorry for the poor husband and wife and pastors that we were so incestuous. They were the godparents to our child, they were our pastors, they were counseling us, they were going through their own struggles. What should have been done is we should have found the resource to say, thank you, thank you, thank you. But we're gonna go, and we did, we went to so many counselors, but we kept going back to them because they were like Jesus to us. You know what I mean? I think we put the pastors, you've got to have an answer. You're the pastor, you've got to have an answer. You've been married for 35 years. I just look and I go, No, they don't. They can love us, they can pray for us, but I was always trying to get them to fix it, and they're just people, you know what I mean? They're just people, but when you're 30 years old and you're, I mean, I look back at 30, I was just a baby, 33, 34, just a baby. And you know, my pastors are in their 40s and 50s, and I'm like, I know they can fix it, they can pray it away, they can pray the deliverance, they can. I saw war room, you know. Why didn't that work for me? I just I just wanted to say to all those pastors out there, like, it's not your fault for all the end that you've tried to help. It's not your fault.

SPEAKER_02

And sometimes you have to help people, which I think a lot of pastors do, especially today. Go, here's a list of counselors that are professional counselors or psychologists or whatever, or couples counselors that can specialize in some of these things. And I think a lot of pastors have now learned okay, this is helpful if I if I do that much more the same way. Look at that. But I will have it. What Chanel was life changing. I mean, just totally two. I will say two things, then we can expound upon it on the next episode. Is I did have a pastor say to me, I think the brink drinking is your problem. You should let him drink. That was very close to the end of the our marriage. And then I I was on the prayer team at the church I went to, and um, I think I was not gossiping I was at all. I was just talking to a friend about what was going on, and another gentleman heard me, and he's he very kindly, he was an older gentleman, came up to me and said, Would would you mind if I go get a pastor to talk to you? And I was like, sure, you know, and this pastor came over to me and he says, Would you mind if if if I hear what's going on in your life? And so I told him, and he was very lovely, and he said, He's not gonna change. You know what you need to do. And that didn't even do it for me, but it you know, for a girl that's never had a father, right? For someone to sit down and tell you this, go, you can save yourself, honey. You can save yourself, and not save salvation. Like, I'm not saying that. Yeah, yeah, I know. But he was like, your worth be getting out of this. It's okay.

SPEAKER_00

I don't I don't even know if I would have listened at that point.

SPEAKER_02

I found out later he had his his daughter, who was about my age, who went to the same college I did for a short amount of time. I didn't even know that. I mean, I went to the college for a short amount of time. His daughter had just walked through something similar, and that's why he was able to speak to it with such, I think, gentleness and compassion without like an ounce of I think that that's like really brave of a pastor to say that. And I saw him um three or four months ago at a funeral. Oh, and did you get to tell him you were okay? Yes, I got to tell him because we knew mutual people, but I'd never seen him again. And so I got to tell him what that very simple conversation did, and even though it didn't delete lead directly to it, it did change something in the husband and my kids.

SPEAKER_00

But I think that's so bold because I don't know if that's in the pastor's handbook. You can tell somebody it's okay to get divorced. Like, I can't imagine the amount of seminaries that are like, don't tell them to get divorced, don't tell them to get divorced. But yet, people are gonna get divorced whether they tell you or not. I just think that that was really brave. He was probably a very prayerful man, probably was hearing from the whole thing.

SPEAKER_02

Lovely, a lovely person. He wasn't he wasn't being flippant about it at all. No, right? Well, I think he's awesome. He is wonderful. One put him in the donut. And I think what was really interesting about it is this totally choked me up, but like he had just watched his daughter go through it. I'm not sure he wouldn't have been it would have been able to say it if he hadn't just watched his little girl who is the same age as I was go through it.

SPEAKER_00

I think that's I think wherever he is, he is someone to be thanked. And if you're out there and you're listening to this and you've had to speak really hard words to someone, whether you're a pastor or a friend, we just want to say, you know, thank you, because telling someone the truth is harder than sugarcoating it and being that like enabler friend.

SPEAKER_02

Protection comes first, marriage comes second. That is my yeah.

SPEAKER_00

I mean, that's I have had a pastor say that if you're being hurt, like leave today. If you're being hurt, leave today, and then we'll we'll talk about it. But you know, I think it's as we kind of button this up, like it's very gray because if I had been harmed physically, I would have had such a get out of jail free card. I used to think, like, if you if you touch me, which you never would have, I would have the the wherewithal to be like, and this happened on May 1st, and then I was out. But a lot of times it's so gray, and women just get so beaten down with the circumstances and what's going on. And you're like, Well, I'm not being abused, and then you're like, but are you? Because you're living with this addiction or you're living with this mental illness, or you're living with this thing. And like I said, um, not to go into any of our ex's stuff, but it's gray. It's okay. It's okay if you need to take a pause or you need to consider whether this is the right situation for you. And I we're not coming across on this podcast as like, I'm so glad I got divorced. I think it's hurtful and it's horrible, and I'm sad it happened. But like when it was a necessary action in my life, and my children are literally happier, like happier because they saw what mommy and daddy were like before, and they saw all the tears, and and they don't even realize to this day. This is part three of our divorce talk, they don't know all the reasons, you know. But um, I I just want our listeners to know the we're no we're no expert, but you know, sometimes it's braver to leave than it is to stay. You think you're being brave by staying, but if you pray and you're being hurt and you feel like not even to sign divorce papers, but just to like take a pause and like have somebody help reevaluate. But you know, I have a couple of friends or acquaintances that are in high-profile marriages, you think they have all the money in the world, but their husbands are so powerful that they have literally threatened them. They're like, I will hire the most expensive lawyer, I will take the children, you will never see the children again, you'll never see it done. And these women are like, but wait, like we're 50-50 partners, and you know, we have all these things and monies, but the men are sort of saying, Don't even think about it, don't even think about it because I will ruin you. And they have sort of the power to do that, and so it's like it doesn't matter if you're low financially, high financially, you can be intimidated, and now we're going off on a crazy tangent, but um I think that it's just a matter of like trusting that at the end of the day, and this is our Christian belief system, that like God will make a way where there needs to be a way, and um, you know, I think there's so much more to talk about this. So we can button it here and say to be continued because um it's a really important topic, and I'm glad that we are able to speak to it. I think when you go through, I'll say this when you go through something really, really terrible, the best thing you can do is go through it and come out the other side and help people. So I hope that's what we're doing today.

SPEAKER_02

Absolutely. To be continued. I'm I'm actually really excited about getting into part one. Or part one, we did. Um part two and part three. Numbers are hard. Um part two and part three on it, and then maybe uh I don't know, part four.

SPEAKER_00

Candace did part 17 on her series, so you know.

unknown

Yes.

SPEAKER_02

So, but all that to say, I think um there's a lot we can all speak to because just having to watch each other go through it and watch other friends go through it and what maybe watch people stay too long at times. But I I have a lot of compassion for people on all sides of divorce, whether they wanted it or they didn't want it, whether they were in it and they were so open and then they were left. I mean, there's a lot of pain that can come can happen on both sides, obviously. But um, I would love to do one maybe part three or a part four where we can talk about theologically what are some of the misconceptions. And I think a lot of men and women live with the that verse, God hates divorce from Leviticus. And that is not the original translation or the best translation. Oh, I wish I had my book with me, but um cliffhanger, yes, cliffhanger.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. If you want to know what God says about divorce in the Greek, you have to watch part two.

SPEAKER_02

Arabic.

SPEAKER_00

You guys, thank you. Oh, Hebrew, yes, of course. Uh, thank you for listening. This has been really great. I'm so glad uh that we got to talk about this. And please tune in again and follow us on Instagram and TikTok and all the places where you can hear us and YouTube where you can see us, and we want to hear from you. So we'll see you next time. Bye.