STILL WALKING

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Kouch Konversations with Venus Chandler welcomes Christian author, spoken word artist, and speaker Brandon Hathaway for a powerful conversation about faith, pain, healing, and perseverance.

In this heartfelt episode, Brandon shares the story behind his book, Still Walking, and opens up about his personal journey through depression, anxiety, addiction, church hurt, and moments when life felt overwhelming. Together, we explore what it means to keep trusting God when the answers don't come quickly, how healing often happens one step at a time, and why your struggles do not define your purpose.

If you've ever questioned your faith, battled silent pain, or wondered if you could keep moving forward, this conversation is for you. Brandon's honesty, vulnerability, and unwavering hope serve as a powerful reminder that even in our darkest seasons, God is still at work.

This is more than an interview, it's a conversation that will encourage, challenge, and remind you that no matter what you've faced, you can still be walking.

Don't forget to like, subscribe, share this episode, and leave a review. Your support helps us continue bringing real conversations that inspire healing, hope, and transformation.

Brandon Hathaway: 

Email: brandonhathawayofficial@gmail.com

You Tube: Brandon Hathaway Official

Face Book: Brandon Hathaway

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:03

So hey guys, hey, welcome back to Couch Conversations. And you know what? I got a treat for you guys on today. Today we have with us Brandon Hathaway. Oh, I cannot wait to get into this. This is gonna be a good one. So this episode title is Still Walking. So we have today Brandon Hathaway. Brandon, can you introduce yourself to everybody so they know who you are?

SPEAKER_04 0:30

Yeah, absolutely. Well, first of all, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it. I'm honored to be here uh to speak with you about this stuff today. But my name is Brandon Hathaway. Uh, I am a Christian author. Um I started off doing hip hop music, turned that into spoken word, and uh now I just utilize my gifts and my talents for the Lord. So just kind of uh walking with people who have had doubt, faith, uh anything like that, struggles, addictions of any kind. Um and you can hear that through my music and my writings. So I'm really honored to be able to be here and share that today.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

I'm happy to have you here. Me and you, we have some things in common that I'm hoping that we could talk about a little bit today. As a matter of fact, today in church, we were talking about those things. We were, you know, some of the things we were talking about um when we did like the pre-interview and everything. So beyond the titles, author, speaker, and spoken word artist, who is Brandon Hathaway? Who is Brandon?

SPEAKER_04 1:37

Yeah, yeah. So um I am uh just I was born and raised here in Akron, Ohio. Uh love, love my city and my state. Uh love to represent it. Um, but yeah, I mean, I'm just somebody who um I'm here to just tell my story. I feel like the Lord has really uh worked with me over the years to experience a lot of things. And um I think through the ups and the downs, and mostly through the downs, what the Lord was doing was preparing me for this moment. And as he was preparing me for this moment, um, he said, Don't be ashamed to share your story. Um, and this is where it all started was with still walking, which is going to be turning into a series. But um yeah, I'm I'm just I'm just your uh your average person, man. Just uh uh the Lord gifted me with some abilities here, and I'm again I'm just glad to be here and be able to share that through whatever um whatever he wants me to do. But yeah, I mean really it's it's about my life, and and and we're gonna dig into that with with still walking and and just where we're at with that. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Well, speaking of still walking, what does that title personally mean to you?

SPEAKER_04 2:52

Yeah, so still walking personally to me means that I haven't quit, right? I'm still I'm still walking. Uh it doesn't mean I always walked well, though, right? It's just that I'm still here. Sometimes I've had to crawl, uh, sometimes I've stumbled, uh, sometimes I've stood longer than I probably should have. Uh, I wanted people to know that they're not alone and God is still present even in the middle of struggle, right? So even though we're struggling, God can seem absent sometimes. But by because of him, I am still here with all of the experience and all of the things that I've had to go through. Uh I'm still here and still walking. Whether I still deal with any kind of problems and issues, which we all do, you know, from time to time, still deal with those, but he still has me here, still walking. Some people just haven't had uh the fortunate part of making it through their struggles. You know, some of them lost the battle, uh, and I did not. I'm still here.

SPEAKER_00 3:52

So come on, somebody. Come on, somebody. When you say you're still here, I'm thinking the same thing because I mean, I have I've been through some things in my life, and I just refuse to quit. I refuse to give up. And sometimes some days it's hard. It's hard, it's not always easy. And but I think what the thing is is that people look at people like me and you and they think that it's been easy. It haven't been easy, not at all. And there's still days. Listen, I'ma just be honest, there's still days that you know I can just lay in that bed all day and still just be, you know, yeah, you know, yes, so uh you've been open about about some of your experiences with depression and anxiety and things like that. Um what gave you courage to to open up and and talk about it, especially being a man, a man in America.

SPEAKER_04 4:53

Yeah, yeah, you ain't wrong. Um, you know what? Um, I think that uh after uh some long wrestling with God, I believe with all of my heart that this is the message that he's given me from before the time I was born. He was like, he knew this is what he was preparing me for the last 45 years to tell this story. And you know, it's just like I was thinking like earlier today, I'm like, man, I'm 45 years old and I'm just out doing this. But like, you know, it took that long to prepare me and my story. So God allowed, right? He doesn't cause the pain, doesn't cause the struggles. I mean, he's amazing, but he allowed this to show his glory. So I've been walking with depression and anxiety since probably three years old. Yeah, um, I didn't always know what that was or what that meant, obviously, as a as a kid, and no kid should have to deal with that, right? We shouldn't have to. And I think that like making it aware um and causing awareness for mental health beings that it's probably the worst thing that I've ever had to deal with. And I can't say I've I've shaken it, and I've come to the I mean it's gotten better, obviously, but um I've come to the um conclusion that I think the Lord is allowing me to carry this to help others manage it, to better manage it, you know. Uh, because it's like sometimes, you know, it's it's like this. I like to tell I like to compare it to this. It's it's like um cancer, you know, people don't want cancer, but some people are chosen to carry it. Some beat it, a lot don't, right? But we don't just say, hey, get rid of cancer, right? Because that's just not how that works. Well, the mental health is is the same way. It's like, yeah, we would love to if we knew how to do that, right? So I think I think a lot of this is awareness of like, look, like we don't have to be secluded, we don't have to be uh feeling like we don't have enough faith that the Lord doesn't love us or or we need to pray more, or any of that kind of stuff. Like that's just false information. So I think through my own personal testimony and journey, um, I'm honored to be able to carry this or have walked through this to share it with others.

SPEAKER_00 7:10

Do you ever feel like there was times? There's a couple questions I wanted to ask you about all this. Was there ever a time that you felt like you wasn't gonna make it through it?

SPEAKER_04 7:20

Absolutely. Uh several times, actually. I mean, there has been, I mean, we can get into the depth of it, but like there had been suicide attempts, there has been overdoses, um, there has been, yeah, I mean, more more downs than I can than I can probably share here. But here's the cool thing, you know, and and still walking was not like a title that I'm like, oh, that's such a dope title, you know. It was like, but now that I I have it, it's like, okay, some people aren't still walking. I have friends that aren't walking anymore. I have family that aren't walking anymore, but I am still walking. Yeah, and that is the message. So, yeah, there have been plenty of times in my journey where I was like, I'm not gonna make it. I didn't want to make it, I wasn't trying to make it, and I was really trying to end it. But the Lord's like, no, not not now, not now. It ain't happening right now. It ain't happening on my watch. Like, yeah, you got work to do, you know what I mean? And I mean, there's still days where I'm like, what am I doing? Yeah, like this is this is I don't know, you know. It's just like I'm not only am I just still walking, but I'm also walking by faith because I've completely given my all and put all my eggs into this basket of being an author and making mental health awareness.

SPEAKER_00 8:34

Yeah, yeah. And that's crazy when you say that people don't understand this depression. This this thing with depression and anxiety. Um I think that we're given the tools to be able to navigate through it. But here's one thing I don't understand with people, and listen, I'm not this person who is this what they call those people, this super religious person, and yeah, no, I understand that. Yeah, walk around with the Bible, and then that I'm not. But let me tell you something. God is the head of my life and always have been and always will be. Nothing comes before him. What I don't understand is how do people function without him. I I don't know because I'm gonna tell you, um I wrote a book and it's called Wake Up Tomorrow, and I wrote that book about it's about about suicide, and it is about um people understanding and recognizing it. Some people think that there's this cuck cookie cutter idea about suicide, and and and it just isn't, and people think that that thing goes away. Yeah, I think that you know there's people who okay, yeah, who have made the attempts. I've made an attempt when I was in um high school and um it was unsuccessful, and I was pissed off, but um I think that people have this idea that you know it's step one, she's gonna give her things away. Step two, she's gonna cry all the time. It is like that. Yeah, and people uh is is under the impression that oh, she tried it once and that's done, or that she's over that. No, I think somewhere uh it's still it still lingers, it still lingers here, and I think that's why I I I feel like it's it's very important that I never ever detach myself from God, no matter what.

SPEAKER_04 10:33

You know, that's powerful. Yeah, yeah. That's super powerful. I gotta I gotta check out that book. Yeah, I gotta check that book out, yeah, for sure. Yeah, um, it's it's it's a very it's a very touchy topic, especially when those and then you know those that don't understand are like, oh that person's selfish, or that person's you know, and and the thing is it's like I'm not I'm not I'm not saying yes or no to any of that. I'm just saying like when it happens, I'm like, man, that's terrible. But like I understand, I understand, I understand. And like that's the part where I'm like, I don't want to say that, but I do understand. I do understand. Some have been successful at the attempts, and others have not been. Thankfully, I was not. Thankfully, you were not, and we get to still walk and talk about this, right? Right, and that and that's the idea behind this whole project here.

SPEAKER_00 11:25

Yes, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you know, number one, people don't understand this either, that this assignment that God has given us, and it's not just one assignment, but it is uh I should say it's a path that God uh is having us to to go down now, because we've already been through the boot camp, and and when I say the boot camp, I'm talking about struggling with the depression and the anxiety and the suicide attempts and feeling like we wasn't enough, and you know, all that other stuff that goes with it. It was a boot camp. And I used to ask God, like, why? Like, I don't understand, like, why me? Why why why do I have to suffer? Why did I have to suffer the way that I did? But you know what God told me? He said, Well, why not? What better person? Other people, some somebody else would have broke, and there were people who broke. Okay, yeah, why are we still here? Why are we still walking, Brandon? Because God knew He knew the assignment for us, we can handle it. Some days it feels like we can't, you know, especially when we try to handle it with our own human eyes and human head and human ears.

SPEAKER_04 12:37

Yeah. I'll tell you what, like, no, and you and you're and you're right, and you I know you have a a story because I got to read your book, and I'll tell you what, um I think I I got through it in two days. Yeah, um, it was one of the I don't okay. I I want to say best books in the in the way of inspiring for me to read, especially this year, and it's gonna be hard to top that just because like I couldn't put it down to see like, oh my gosh, the stuff that you went through and the stuff that I can relate to on that, I'm like, oh my wow, like that book there can help a lot of people, you know, and it's like it's like I mean I want the same out of this. See, mine isn't more of a memoir right now, but they are actual situations, yeah, real situations that I've gone to. And if you've ever been to spoken word or you know anything about spoken word poetry, and I'm talking to anybody watching this as well, um it's it's very like heartfelt. It's an art, you know. Um, it's it's kind of like a form of preaching. And on my YouTube site this week, I will have stuff there. So when I'm doing spoken word, see, people can read that and they'll text me and say, wow, that really spoke to me. It's like, well, that's real. That's real, though. You know, that wasn't stuff I was just like, okay, I'm gonna make this up and hope it's hope it sticks. No, it's real life, and when I'm talking and when I'm um actually coming from the heart with it, there's a lot of passion behind it. It's it's very preachy and it's very like raw in your face. Like, this is what happens. This isn't me just reading off of something or anything like that. This is me like literally giving it all the emotion that I have to allow the reader and the listener to actually feel it. And that's why I feel like the next thing that's gonna be coming would be the audio part of it, because they need to hear the emotion behind the spoken word. I was that was not like my original plan was not to write this. Like, I had no idea this was even gonna happen. Like, I was like, the Lord wanted me to share my story, yeah. And I remember this morning I woke up thinking of like this really rough time in my life that I haven't I'm I'm struggling writing about, and I feel like the Lord's like, no, just like just like tell it. And I'm like, Lord, this is a lot to tell someone, you know what I mean? But I think this this is like prepping me uh to be able to get to more of the raw side of things, you know. We're just touching the tip of the iceberg here, and these are more like current events. But when I dig deep into my life, I'm like, man, Lord, like I do I really want people to know me like that. And he's like, no, but I want people to know me like this. The glory.

SPEAKER_00 15:21

You gotta say, I love you.

SPEAKER_04 15:23

Yeah, yeah. So he's saying, you know, that's it's not about me. It's like we have to die to ourselves and realize that, like, hey, the Lord, the Lord pulled us out of some stuff, right? Uh, and and I mean, I'm talking about like when I read your book compared to my story, I'm like, man, we both been through the ringer and back 20 plus times, you know what I mean? Yeah, I don't think there's anything that you said in that book that I haven't experienced. So it was like, wow, yeah, um, you know, and it it just brings tears to your eyes to know that like there are other people that understand, right? Yes, and I think like people like you and I bring awareness to that, and people just need to see this stuff, you know, they need to read it, they need to, and I love I love being able to connect with people on top of it because it's really therapeutic, not just for me, but for them too, you know, to be able to connect to to real people. It's like I've been to psychologists, I've been, I've taken medications, I've done all of that stuff. I've I've sat in front of pastors who are great speakers, but they have no idea what I've ever been through. It's like, you know what I mean? Like, none of them. It's like, yeah, you've been trained to do this. I appreciate it. Listen, I mean, some have helped. I'm just saying, like, when it comes from somebody who's really been there, it's more powerful, you know. So all my mentors, my pastor, oh my gosh, the story of the world he has, you know, and it's like that's why it's like these are the people that the Lord has brought into my life. Yeah, and uh it's just been it's just been a really amazing experience on how fast he's worked through me uh to to do this stuff, you know, because when I was using my skill sets without him, like I got to do things, but not this, right? Not this. I was encouraging the negativity instead of like saying, like, hey, y'all, I feel you, you know, not you know what I mean. Like that was it, because my first rap group was like, we got to tour everywhere, but we were like parties and drinkers and doing drugs and all these things, and I thought it would that was just the life, you know. And the Lord's like, no, that's not it. That's not it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 17:27

So yeah, yeah, because you got to remember our story, what we've been through is is people I know people say that this is crazy, but it is to glorify him. It is it really is, it is to let people is to let people see that only him, yeah, only him, he could have gotten us through this. We would have died out to Brendan. Brandon, I was out there drinking and partying and bar hopping, man hopping, and even all the things. When I think of even being out there and being sexually active the way that I was, just everywhere, yeah, unprotected and all that stuff.

SPEAKER_04 18:08

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:08

I could have had I could have caught AIDS. That was actually during the AIDS epidemic. Yeah, could have been on crack cocaine, I could have been on drugs, things like that. I never tried drugs ever. I never tried drugs. I've been, you know, the alcohol, my mom was alcoholic. She was 47 when she passed away, you know, as a result of her alcoholism. I mean, like I can go on and on and on. Yeah, yeah, but at the end of the day, you know, it the everything that I've ever been through, I know, I know now it is just it's just to glorify God. So people can understand how powerful He is. Yeah, you understand?

SPEAKER_04 18:50

Yeah, yeah, that's that's absolutely it. And yeah, you know, you said some powerful things there. It's like you say, I I haven't done drugs, but all those other things are just as important, if not worse. It's it's like when people think of addiction or think people think of problems and and mental health, we always want to relate it to drugs and alcohol. I'm like, no, no, no, no, it's way more broader than that, right? Oh, yeah. Um, you know, uh, you mentioned some things there that I'm like, yeah, um, you know, uh hopping around from partner to partner, unprotected, and things like that is like, look, that is a part of a mental health side, right? And these are things that I've had to study and go through as well. And as we're preparing for our nonprofit on top of this as well. But it's like, yeah, you know, these are things that like um people experience. You don't have to experience the drug side. Now, unfortunately, I had to, but I don't even want to say unfortunately, I say I was able to experience all of that. And some of it came later on in my life, some of it was like most of my life, some of it was just part of it. But like at one point, I experienced that whole thing. So like I can't even relate to the part that you were talking about. Like, hey, you know, you said man hopping. It was like I was woman hopping, you know what I mean? So it was like the same thing, and it's like when I look back at that, I asked my wife this morning, I said, Do you ever get like trauma uh things that pop up for you? And she goes, No, not really. And I said, Dang, I'm like, I do so much, and it'll be that random time that I'm like, I can't believe I did that, or why did I do that, or what was I thinking? And it's like I had that, I had that happen to me this morning, and I'm like, Lord, like as I start writing this memoir, not start it, but continue it, it's this piece that I'm just like, you know, you reminded me when you said that that I went back to, and I'm like, man, like it starts making me really feel the moment again, but this time not in a good way, and more of like a sympathetic way of like, man, like some things have happened to me that like weren't really my fault. Um, and then there were a lot of things that I caused that, you know. I mean, I can't make excuses for myself that whole way, that's right, but it was just like, man, Lord, like, thank you, you know, like um that I'm not waking up in some random place anymore, or I'm not, you know, like having these dark times, you know, and it's just like um I can't be more thankful. So I appreciate you being vulnerable and honest and sharing that stuff too, because that's exactly like what I want to get out of this, and even people reading my story and my books is it's all real. It's it's real, it really is.

SPEAKER_00 21:33

It is, and you know, this is another thing too. I feel like until we tell our tell our story, there are people who are dying on our watch.

SPEAKER_03 21:43

Yes, ma'am.

SPEAKER_00 21:44

And the reason being, I'm I I think is because we have experienced these things that we've experienced, not only for the glory of God, but because there are people who are assigned to our lives. You know? Yes. There are people that And until we show up, and until we show up, until we tell our story, they're dying. I know that when it when I first released my book, um oh my god, the oh my god, the the bullying, the the pushback that I got from my family, you know. Oh my better not be in that book and this that first of all, the story is about my life. You know, unfortunately, you are part of that. Yeah, and unfortunately, you guys are part of that because y'all did not play your part the way that you should have. You were assigned to protect me, and I get it. Listen, I give you grace because you were young, you didn't know yourself, and so I have forgiven, but don't bully me and be mad at me because I decided to get this cancer out of my body. I'm gonna tell my story, I'm gonna tell my story. And when I first wrote my book and I was getting the pushback, I took the book down. God came to me, so um, he sent me uh it's this book. I gotta remember this book. I had, and I had I had bought it long before I wrote my own book, but um, I'll remember it in a minute. But I read this book and it was talking about me telling my story and being bullied and things like that. I said, It's nothing but God speaking. So called my publisher, like I said, hey, put your book back up. So whatever is to come is gonna come, come on, bring it on. Because I'm gonna tell my story. Y'all don't mind me dying and having this cancer eat me alive because of all this trauma that happened to me, because y'all didn't do what you were supposed to do. Okay. And so no, I mean, I love you, and yeah, hey, and it would and it was hard. It was hard, Brandon. So, yeah, to tell your story.

SPEAKER_04 23:56

Yeah, oh, I understand that, and it's it's it's good that you mentioned that. I know I had read through a lot of the stuff that you had sent me, um, and really good stuff. And um, you know, part two of the book, by the way, which I've got right here, still walking. I love it. Um part two is uh called The Wounds, and it brings me to that section because there's three people I I talk about uh directly here, right? Uh Scarlet and Snow is is the name of uh this this chapter, and it's about my mom who I've yeah, who I disconnected with um about three years ago now because of the addiction issues, the lying, the manipulating that goes with all of that. And yeah uh we can go on and on and on about that story. We're not gonna do that because see, I it wasn't that I was putting my mother on blast on this. My thing was I was talking about the disconnection and how that hurt me and affected me, right? Um, and I and I and I didn't want to do it as exposure because that wasn't it. And I even you know mentioned, you know, hey mom, I I love you and I and I really pray for you and hope that you know things can turn around for you like they did for me.

SPEAKER_05 25:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:09

Uh but Scarlet and Snow is like a really tough one to read. And uh, you know, I would encourage anybody watching this, um, or even yourself if you haven't get been able to read that part two called the wounds, because the other one was called Wound of a Brother, um, which was a pastor/slash best friend of mine. Um, that one it goes really deep into a hurtful relationship. Not only was he my pastor, he was my best friend. And uh just the ending that was, yeah. And then the Exodus was about my uh my ex-wife um who was an abusive alcoholic see, because what people don't realize is, and I and I want to make a little bit of awareness of this, is that um women aren't always the object of abuse. Yes, um, men can be too. It's just that we don't talk about it as much uh because we're men and we're not we're we're wired and conditioned to not do that according to society. We shouldn't talk about um the way we've been abused, we've been hurt because we look there's many of names I could call us or that we would be classified that I'm not gonna do right here, but that I realized that I was holding inside because it's like, man, I don't want to look like this or I don't want to look like that. I'm a dude. Like I you can't get yes, we can get abused, we absolutely can.

SPEAKER_00 26:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 26:31

Um, by women, by men, it doesn't matter. And I have on both sides, right? But I I never wanted to be honest and open about that. But my ex-wife was that physically and mentally abusive. Um, and we don't hear that from men that often. We just don't, you know, and am I ashamed to talk about it now? No, I'm not, because uh I know that there are plenty more out there that are going through that, and we only hear about the ones that the women that are getting that abuse. We don't usually hear about, and and you know, I I have a heart for everybody that goes through abuse, don't get me wrong, but I'm specifically just talking about the men version because of how we are wired, because of how society looks at us, because of how women would look at us, especially if we're in the dating scene or you know, whatever it's like, you know, women might look at us like, oh, you can't protect me. It's like, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm saying, like, you know, there has to be boundaries there, and it's like nobody deserves that kind of abuse, you know. Absolutely. Being that there's trauma from that person and they take it out on you. And as a man, I'm I'm not I'm not hitting a woman, that's just not what I do, right? So it's like you have to take that abuse. And for five years, I tried. And biblically, you know, the Lord does not want divorce, you know. And I was like, Well, I can't get a divorce, you know, because that's not what the Lord wants. I'm the provider here, too. I can't just leave her and her kids to just fend for themselves. And I remember one of my best friend, the one night just said, How long are you gonna be miserable? I said, What are you talking about? You know, I was laying in bed one night. He said, Well, how you how like I was like, I don't know what you mean. Yeah, he goes, You know, you're miserable there. And I go, Well, what do you want me to do? I said, He goes, Well, the Lord will forgive you, and he's agnostic, and he said that. And I said, Well, you're actually right. And then I said, Well, I she can't, I I I'm I'm her provider, her and her kids. And he goes, Well, she'll figure it out, you know. And it was like that was the beginning of still walking, to be completely honest with you. That was the beginning of where the Lord really started working through my life to turn everything around because I was sitting in misery, chained in hell basically, for five years and holding back everything. I mean, I was even like so insecure, I got up to like 260 pounds, believe it or not. And like it was just like I look back at that now and I said, I thought my life was over at that age. And that was, you know what I mean? Like, I thought my life was already, I mean, I was already in my mid-late 30s, something, I don't know, and I thought my life was over. And here I've got this like brand new life that the Lord had all along for me that I'm like, wow, like you just never know when you surrender, what will change in your life. Come on, somebody. You have to be willing to surrender if you're not willing to surrender.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

Yeah, I mean, we have we have the stories. I have got to introduce you to my husband. I have got to introduce you. I think you guys will definitely hit it off.

SPEAKER_03 29:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Um, and he needs to tell you his story too.

SPEAKER_02 29:35

Uh, I'd love to hear it.

SPEAKER_00 29:37

With the him and his his ex-wife. Now, me and my husband, we have a his a 40-year history, and one day we'll talk about that.

SPEAKER_04 29:45

Okay, okay. Yeah, no, that's fair. That's fair.

SPEAKER_00 29:49

But he is an amazing guy, and um this man has been through it. He has been through it. Um, and he's a deacon in his church, and he has turned his life around. It's something that I you guys gotta meet. You just gotta meet. And I'm trying to convince him to write a book. Yeah. I talked about myself one day we're gonna come on to couch conversations, we're gonna talk about um because we grew up together. We grew up together in.

SPEAKER_05 30:16

Okay, all right, okay.

SPEAKER_00 30:21

But um, oh my goodness, yeah. When you when you talk about the trauma, you said that you you asked your wife about like, do sometimes you know, you think about what you've been through and it's traumatic. I think what it is, is that it's it's it's it's an emotion that like I can't believe I I've been through that. I can't believe I made it through that. Like, why because when we're while we're going through it, just like you said, and while you was going through the thing with your ex-wife and the abuse and everything, you really don't understand the depths of it until you are away from you look back at it and you be like, oh, oh, oh wow, I I went through that, I made it through that. That's crazy, you know. So I think that when it's I I don't think it's it's it's is is reliving the trauma. I just think it's being reminded that I really made it through that, you know, and I have just like one person I can thank for that, and that's God. That's as simple as that.

SPEAKER_04 31:19

You know, yes, ma'am. Yes, it's yes, you got it, yeah. You got that right. And it's it's uh, you know, it's just it's so much more like meaningful. It's like, you know, instead of sitting there saying, why did this happen to me, it's like, oh, you know, like thank you, Lord, for allowing this, you know, when it's like instead of saying, like, um, you know, and then I'm like, don't don't get me wrong, like I'm gonna be completely 100 here because like that's another thing the Lord has allowed me to do is just completely be honest about stuff. But like, you know, there's still times where I'll I'll be like, why did this have to happen? You know, like why did this happen to me? You know, it's like it does, it still does, it really does. I don't know that that ever goes away. And it's like I will tell anybody watching or listening to this, including you and me, like it just doesn't. Like, there are times where we need that person to lean on, that person to talk to. Uh, and I I don't think, and it's okay that like we don't, there's no blueprint to getting completely over the finish line, you know. And you know, my wife and I are starting this. We just started this nonprofit um called Mental Health and Jesus, and this is exactly what we're talking about, is the fact that um I didn't write a blueprint to to get you over to this glorious side. That's not my job. That's not what that's that's what the Lord does, right? I'm just like helping and navigate with people who are like, hey, I've suffered with this, I love the Lord, I want to be better, but like I don't think I have enough faith, or I don't think I pray enough. Or I it's like, no, no, no, let's not believe all the false stuff. Let's you know what I mean? Let's let's be more open and talk about those things because, like I said, uh, have I do I still deal with depression anxiety? Absolutely. Um, sometimes worse than others, sometimes there's different seasons, you know, whatever. And you know, it's it's it's the cool thing about this is uh still walking. Uh I wrote that and released that through a really difficult time in my life. But here's the interesting part. The interesting part about it is everything in my life right now is pretty good. I don't have anything I can really complain about, right? Um, but the depression and the anxiety and the trauma has haunted me over this last year terribly. And that's where this book was birthed out of. Um, it was just more of like the current events because when I when I discovered spoken word, um, I was like, wait a minute, I kind of already do that as a rapper. Like, I can I can do this, you know? And um my oldest daughter, we went and saw her do it, and uh the Lord gave me the vision that day of saying, like, hey, what if um or I would like you to do this for me in a more clean version and just go out and like share the gospel with this, but also make it family friendly. And I grabbed my oldest daughter and another lady I saw there who loved the Lord, and we started a group called Refiner's Fire, and that's kind of another way this was birthed out was I compiled my first 20 spoken words, my insights about the spoken word and why I wrote it, and then there's a prayer at the end of each one for you to read um in that specific situation. So, yeah, it's all realistic, real stuff in my life that I know. I mean, I've had it's just been it's been overwhelming with the amount of people that said, Hey, this touched me, you know, and it's like um that's all it's that's all it's about, you know. It's it it I had to go into this like thinking, like, I'm not coming into this for money, I'm not coming into this for this. Like if you know, he Jesus left the 99 for the one, right? And as I think about that, I think about okay, um, if this book reaches one person and saves their life, the Lord did what he needed to do through me. So that's just kind of like where I'm at with it, you know. Like, yeah, I mean, hey, it'd be awesome to be rich and famous, right? Like with that, that's always a dream, but that's just not it anymore. That's not the goal, right? The goal is like to help, you know what I mean? So, and I love what I do. I do, I love doing this, I love having these conversations. Yeah, uh, it's just life-giving now, you know, not shame anymore, it's life-giving.

SPEAKER_00 35:38

That's what I was gonna ask you. Um, that's another thing too. How has like the spoken word like played the part of healing in your journey? Because I know that you still deal with the depression, the anxiety, as do I. And I think once we have that, like I said, I I do it ever go away. I I don't know, but I know that I have it. And every now and again it peaks his little ugly head, and but then I have my tools.

SPEAKER_04 36:05

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, I think um I I think I think it does go away for some and some it doesn't. Um, and that's uh upon my my research, my study, my education, my background now with uh with a lot of mental health and biblical stuff. Um, we're not all going to um completely get rid of things.

SPEAKER_05 36:23

Right.

SPEAKER_04 36:24

Um, God chooses us to do things, you know. Um it's just like uh when Paul was walking around, felt like he had that that thorn in his side, and the Lord was like, I'm not gonna remove that because my grace is sufficient for you, right? Uh and my my wife constantly reminds me of that, and I'm like, oh man, like I'm that guy, you know, I'm like maybe I'm that guy. And it's like it doesn't mean that like I'm gonna just completely go off the deep end again because like I've learned kind of my lesson, but yeah, you're right about the the um the carrying it and and whatever, but I think that it's it's been very life-giving to be able to share my story, it's therapeutic, right? Um and it's uh this part of it. Um, I graduated um with a bachelor's in in biblical studies recently. Oh, uh, because I thought Yeah, thank you. Uh I thought I thought my path was to be a pastor at a white mega church. I'm just gonna throw it out there. Uh that is not where the Lord is leading me. And um it's I have a really interesting story we'll get into sometime with that. But um, you know, I I grew up in those types of churches with my grandmother. Um, but as I as I got older, I realized like I'm an inner city guy, like tattoos everywhere and piercing, all this stuff. And I relate to the city, right? Exactly. So, you know, there's there's people that just um we can reach, like people like you and I that can reach that, you know, I don't belong. Like I was telling my wife. Um, and for those who don't know, my wife is a black lady and she is uh the most amazing human being I've ever met. We had had a great friendship before um we even dated and and got married. But um, you know, the Lord has really shown me that um inner city is is is where I'm needed, you know. And it's like as we were church hunting together, I'm like, there's so many places that like we visited that we're like, yeah, this is cool, but they're like, we're not needed here, you know, we're not needed here. And it's just like, you know, we're an interracial couple. Uh she's from east side of Cleveland, I'm from Akron, every side of Akron. And it's just um the Lord has just really adjusted my view. Um, so when I went to Bible college, I thought that I was I wanted to be a church uh pastor in a mega church. Um, but what the Lord has revealed to me is not that. Uh, this is what the Lord has been calling me to, and I'm not saying like doing any pastoral stuff is out of it. I'm saying, like right now, though, going back to your question about this, is like if you're a pastor, you just gotta be careful of um using your congregation as um, you know, a therapy session. Uh, where this stuff here, it's not even therapy, it's just the fact of the matter is I can be a little bit more raw with my story here and be able to really um, and it is it really is to like talk about it, it's really meaningful for me, uh, just because I know the amount of people that is already touched, and I'm just starting.

SPEAKER_05 39:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:38

Uh, and again, what I'm saying to you is like that is life-giving. That is the most life-giving thing I can do is share my story. So even when I'm I'm I'm uh invited to preach somewhere, the Lord's like, look, I mean, a lot of the time you're gonna hear pastors resorting to to characters in the Bible. That is great, okay. Um, I'm all for that. However, I don't. I relate, um, I'll take the scripture that I'm teaching on, I'll relate it to my own life. Yes, uh, because I think that's what speaks to people, because you don't know who's gonna walk in the church doors. I mean, there's unbelievers all the time, there's people doubting their faith, there's people who want to commit suicide that day, and then this is their last resort. That was me at one point, right?

SPEAKER_00 40:17

That was me.

SPEAKER_04 40:19

Okay, see, there you go. So it's like I walk through the doors as a last resort because I'm like, okay, God, like if you're real, yeah, what are we doing, man? You know what I mean? Like, and I I knew I would get like positivity in the church because you know I'm always like, why are all these people always so happy? This is ridiculous, like life ain't like that, right? Um I understand though, like what it means to like have faith, you know. But I I also talk about on the cover of my book, spoken word from the middle of faith, doubt, and calling.

SPEAKER_05 40:49

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 40:49

And um those three things, um, it's okay to to doubt faith and ask questions, right? Um, I I think like we we all do that, and God expects that. In fact, the ones who wrestle the most are probably the ones that care the most, uh, the ones that wrestle with with that a lot, because see, I do. I'm more of like a I gotta dig into this because this doesn't make sense. Yeah, I don't know, like you know, and uh it's okay. Like I've learned, like I thought I was like, man, I'm gonna go to hell because I don't know if I believe all of this, you know what I mean? And and and God understands that, right? And he can handle that. And the other thing I've learned is God can handle my my language. Sometimes I prefer to use when I'm alone with him, and uh I sometimes let it out, you know, and and I've I've realized God can handle whatever we say to him, he just wants us to bring it to him raw and right there in the middle, you know. And again, I didn't even thank you, Holy Spirit. So from the middle of faith, doubt, and calling, right? So it's like I'm called to do this, um, to share my story, but to always point it back to Jesus, right? I do have a lot of doubt from the trauma and stuff I've been through, through God answering it in his own timing and not Brandon's timing. I still don't understand that, right? Uh as a as a human being in the flesh, I'm like, no, God, I need this now, you know. Uh, and you know, just having that faith, and and you know, faith is what we don't see, you know, believing what we don't see. But my thing was always like, well, like, how can I have faith when all I've seen is like negative stuff happen to me, yeah, or to others, or whatever the case is. And it's like, I think I think it does get harder uh for people like you and I, let's say, uh that have this crazy story. Um, I think it can get um difficult for us to have that strong faith because we're like, well, we haven't seen a lot of positive in people or in our own lives. So how do we have this faith in the unknown? Right. And I think that's been the hardest thing. So it's it's like in the middle of that, yeah, there's gonna be doubt with even the best of the best, you know, it there's gonna be doubt. There's gonna be God calls us to things that we just I always say this, I'm like, I always know when God's talking because it's something I don't want to do.

SPEAKER_05 43:14

Right, exactly.

SPEAKER_04 43:16

It's like I don't want to do that. And I'm like, oh, I have to do that, you know, I have to do that. And I'm just like, oh man, like you know, and I've really had to like die to self for that because there's been so many times I'll I'll sit there and like I'm like, darn it, holy spirit. Yeah, and I'm just like, all right, I'll get up and I do it because I'm like, I know that that's what I have to do. Um, and I used to be the the most selfish person on this planet. I'm telling you right now, like I used to be so selfish. Oh my gosh. I was I was yeah, I was a complete, like, I was a jerk for sure. Uh I I went through a lot of phases of just like I think it was just like a lot of you know, transitioning from like back in the day from a Christian school and a Christian home with my grandmother. To inner city, Akron Public, not knowing what the real world really looked like. And it just like brought all this negative emotion on. So I had to go into survival mode most of my life. I think you can understand what survival mode looks like. Yeah. And uh I did that, and I was trying to impress people I didn't even like and didn't even know I didn't like, right? Or people that I didn't really, and I those are the people I wanted to impress, you know, with my cars, with my clothes, with you know, uh the way I talked, the just the things I did, I was impressing everyone, and I was like, well, that got me nowhere, you know.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

Um yeah, it's so what is some of the what is what is some things that you wish that the church would understand about mental health? Because I'm gonna say, let me say this when it comes to mental health in the church, for some odd reason, uh and and and listen, I get why they're saying it's like, oh, just pray about it, or just pray it off. Yes, prayer is power uh is powerful, and yes, that's the first thing we do is go to God. Yes, we pray, but what do you think that the church that the Christians should really understand about mental health?

SPEAKER_04 45:16

Yeah, um, so one of the things that we're gonna be focusing on is like equipping leaders um to understand it better because I think that it's misunderstood in the church. It's not that they um I don't think I I they're not um neglecting it on purpose, they just aren't educated on it. Um because you know, when when it comes to the Bible, we we look at a lot of faith and stuff, but but when we dig in and we look at guys like David, Job, Elijah, those guys, I mean, they suffered with a lot of mental health problems, right? And they're big characters in the Bible. Paul was another one. Um, and I talk about that a lot. And uh I think uh what we're missing here is that uh again, uh we're not equipped well enough in the churches, and the only way they know how to respond is you need more prayer, more faith. And I know that we've talked about that throughout this conversation. Yeah, um, and that would used and that used to excuse me, piss me off uh a lot uh when I would hear that because I'm like, wait a minute, like I believe God's real. Right, I do pray, yeah, uh, and he has changed things, but he hasn't completely lifted this from me. So when the Lord gave me the vision of mental health and Jesus, um it was because it's the one thing that I still deal with, right? It's the one thing that's still um is is is lingering. And I'm like, well, Lord, like you've I've I've prayed about this for years and it's still here. And again, I go back to the thorn and in Paul's side where the Lord says, I'm not gonna remove that because my grace is sufficient for you. And I just feel like he does choose some of us to carry uh certain things, right? And I think that we need to be aware of the fact that there are um chemical imbalances within the brain. Uh, there are different things that happen to our bodies because none of us are perfect. We live in a fallen world. So um we need to address the real concerns here because not all of it is spiritual. Uh, everybody will experience depression and anxiety at some point in their life, but not everyone lives with it, not everyone has a severe case of it, right?

SPEAKER_05 47:28

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:29

Um, so people can all say, I've been depressed before. Sure, I know. I'm sure you have. I mean, everybody's lost someone, everybody's, you know, something has happened to to make you depressed, but to live with it, to wake up and think, why am I sad? Why do I want to go have this drink? Why do I want to go uh do whatever it is that I do to get my endorphins rolling right each day? Because I can't seem to find joy.

SPEAKER_03 47:55

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:55

Um, and I think that the the biggest thing is is like walking alongside of those people who are like, but I love the Lord. It's like, yeah, you probably do. I'm I'm with you on that, you know, and I do too. But unfortunately, uh to us, we were chosen to to carry this um to help others, and we need we need those those people uh that still have to carry this and may not completely defeat it. And I truly believe that um the Lord has chosen um some of us for that reason because we are needed on the front lines uh to help fight against mental health, and that's the biggest uh part of this this journey is like I'm very honest, like I have not defeated that. I have not defeated that. It has gotten better, yeah, and I resort to better things now. I don't resort to drugs and alcohol and sleeping around doing any of that stuff, but um it does, it it has um it has improved. Yeah, and the the the closer I get with the Lord, the better it does go, right? The more uh positive people I put in my life. Like I prayed for an amazing wife for two or three years before I knew who my wife was. You know, I just would pray to the Lord, like, send me, send me the person. And it's funny because we don't envision that person to be who they are, and then the Lord's like, but this is the person that you need, right? Uh, but like in my mind, I didn't picture my wife to be a certain way, you know. And it was just like, and then when that when the Lord revealed um us to each other, I'm like, oh my really, you know, but it's like it's like I couldn't have picked anybody better, you know. And the and the Lord knew like this is the person I needed in order to even complete any of my mission moving forward, because without my wife, yeah. Yeah, I I couldn't, I couldn't. She's she's my biggest fan, my supporter. Uh, she works with me full-time uh on this stuff, and I mean it's just it's been a huge blessing. So, but it you know, that was a that was a three-year prayer. Yeah, three-year prayer before she entered my life. And yeah, man, it has been um it's been amazing. But you know, my wife also gets to see the other side of it, right? Which we don't talk about either. If she's she's a loved one, she's had to see her mom deal with it, the oldest daughter deal with it, me deal with it, you know. So she has this other piece that says, like, she doesn't have the mental health portion, but she has walked with so many people that have. Yes, and she is amazing at that part.

SPEAKER_00 50:29

So I'm like, oh my gosh, and we need people like her, we need people like her, you know.

SPEAKER_02 50:35

So many people like her, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

You know, because those are the people who who help put us back in check.

SPEAKER_04 50:41

Yes, exactly. Yeah, and she looks, she shows a lot of love's uh God's love and grace through that, which is something I've never seen because a lot of people that don't deal with mental health will give up on you or causes more problems with you and and relationships or whatever. Probably it's like it hasn't with her, yeah, it hasn't with her. I just get to see more of God through her and his love and grace. And I'm like, if this is really how God loves like my wife, then like, man, we do have an awesome God. Yeah, so he's been able to show me that through her, which has been an incredible experience for me as well, because it's the first non-toxic relationship I've ever been in, ever, yeah, up to this point.

SPEAKER_00 51:24

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know what's so crazy? You said that um going back to when you said you would what God showed you, you was like, What really? It was the same way we me and my husband. We have this art. I'm telling you, we have this history for almost 40 years for a really long time, a long time, 30 some odd years. And um what I can remember from my now, Brendan, I've been married seven times. He is my seventh husband, and there was a time that I was very, very, very, very ashamed to say, you know, how many times I've been married. I'm not anymore, because I believe that I've learned lessons through all of those relationships, and they and they happen for a reason. But I can remember after my last divorce, I was like, I'm never getting married again, I'm just never getting married again. And it's like, oh, yes, you are, and I was like, Oh, no, I'm not. And I meant that, I meant that, but yeah, one thing that I I realized too is that like the person that I am, I'm a wife, I'm not a girlfriend. I'm not, I'm not the side chick, I'm a wife. So I yeah, so I was like, Well, I'm gonna be married again one day. So yeah, I started sort of kind of prepping my mind and things like that for it. And I'm like, God, you know, I wonder who it's gonna be in this, that, and the other. And for some reason, I this is no lie. I had a picture of my husband. I hadn't seen him in a little while, but had a picture of him and had it in my closet because I used to always look at it because I've always been in love with him, like from day one, like day one, 30 some odd years ago. And I used to look at this picture and I'm like, I I love him. I wish I could find someone like him. And God told me it was gonna be him. I was like, I don't know about that. So I thought about my business, started dating somebody, this African dude, went to Africa with them, all this, that, and the other. And on my birthday, I got a call from my husband, and we know each other so well. When I when I answered the phone, I knew something was wrong. And so I was like, What's the matter? He said, Oh no, no, nothing, nothing, nothing. I was like, What? I said, uh-uh. I said, as soon as I touched down in California, I'm getting on the next flight, I'm on my way home. And I did, I came home to find out. So there's a lot that goes with that story. But the thing is that I never thought it would be him. I always thought it was gonna be this tall, dark, handsome, okay. Somebody working in medical field with mix. I'm a nurse. I'm thinking, like, yeah, no, he that's not what God did. Yeah, my husband is not tall, dark, and handsome. My husband is average height, red bone.

SPEAKER_02 54:08

Yeah, yeah. No, I know, I think it's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 54:12

He's everything that I need because I was one in relationships, I was the runner, honey.

SPEAKER_01 54:18

He's a runner too, but it's just something about this marriage. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I I understand. Trust me, I get it.

SPEAKER_00 54:26

Yeah, that means, yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 54:30

I'm I mean, I'm on my I'm on my third marriage. Um, so like I I completely understand. Um, you know, I definitely do believe like I was made to be a husband and a a father for sure, you know. And um, those are the greatest gifts that I could be given, you know. And I'm like, I I look at my wife every day, I'm like, I'm so undeserving of her, you know. Yeah, and uh I know I I'm I'm still a handful to deal with, but uh yeah, I mean it's it's it's funny to me because like yeah, I'm with you, like I pictured this totally different person, you know. My wife is the most beautiful human being to me in science. I love her, you know. But yeah, she's amazing, she's incredible. But it's just funny because it's like it's not it's not the vision we paint this picture, right? Yes, and it's not just with like um with with partners, but it's like it's with a lot of things. Like I I painted this vision of my life a long time ago of what I wanted it to be, and it's completely opposite, you know. Like I wanted to be this like blue-collar corporate guy like my dad, you know. And uh I you know, and then here I am all tatted up and yeah, and and and you know, into hip hop music and and and writing books now and administering all this stuff. And I'm like, yeah, man, if you would have told me this even 10 years ago, I'd have said you're you're crazy and you need help, you know. Uh but here I am talking to you, and it's just like about this, and it's just been it's just been an incredible experience. And again, reading your story and learning more about you. Um wow, yeah, how incredible. You you're you're a prime example of what this book here is about.

SPEAKER_00 56:04

Yeah, and I has I started your book actually. And when I start your book is fire just from the jump, it is so good just from the jump, and I thought I'd be trying to get back to it, but I've been so busy, but I'm about to do it. Um, and I I'm gonna go ahead, I'm gonna jump ahead to part two real quick, then I'll go back because yeah I wanna I look you got me, you listen, you got me curious. I'm like, oh I'm gonna have to read it now.

SPEAKER_05 56:27

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 56:30

So um let me ask you this. Uh sure, what would you what would you say to somebody today that is feeling hopeless or um just feel like they they just can't go on? Like this depression, this anxiety is got me, it's one, I'm done.

SPEAKER_04 56:48

Man, uh that's such a powerful um question, you know, because not having hope um is something I'm very familiar with, right? Uh not feeling hope, not seeing hope, and everybody everybody's different in this aspect. And I and I walk, I've walked alongside of some people and tried to help out in areas like this. But you first of all, you have to be receptive um to change. Yeah, not that that I'm saying like you need to change like your illness, like illness is an illness, like that is what it is. Like, and I'm not saying you can't be cured of it, and I would never tell anybody you can't be. But I would say this like me surrounding myself with the community, you are who you hang out with. I'm gonna tell you this right now. I have learned that firsthand, okay. One of the hardest things it was to change was to tell some of these people, like, I can't I gotta move this way, and y'all are over here, right? And I'm talking like it was probably 95% of the people in my life. And the the hardest part is uh a lot of that was family too, right? Um, and I'm not I don't ever want to tell everybody just to take what I'm saying and like do that. I'm not saying that like go out there and get rid of your family. Don't do that. I'm saying like you have to build community of like-minded people, right? Uh, that is like the number one thing I've realized. I say this, you need to keep a counselor in your back pocket, a pastor in your back pocket. You gotta have somebody that you can trust at all times, you know what I mean? Like those three things are super, super, super important. And I'm gonna tell you right now, sit still and be single if you have to, because um, don't, you know, I love I I always thrive to be in a relationship and be loved. And I think everybody can probably relate to that, right? Uh, we all want to be loved, we all fall in love, or we think we do, and we think we know what love is. And you know, that was something I always for because I think with me growing up, I didn't feel that as much after my grandmother. Uh, so I forced that on myself. And I would say, like, I remember the day, it was crazy. I looked at her picture on the wall, which I have right over here, and I said, Okay, she was single as I was growing up, and I was like, and she loved the Lord and and did so well in life. And when I look at that, I said, I remember saying, Lord, if she can do it, I can do it. Now, I'm not saying it's gonna happen to everybody, but two months later is when he revealed my wife to me when I told him I would be single from now on. But I'm telling you, like, one of the biggest things, honestly, with hope is is the community and the people that you surround yourself with. That might sound really cliche, and it may be something that people are like, come on, Brandon. Yeah, and it's like, yeah, what works for me may not work for you, you know. But I can tell you what I have done, yeah, but I can also tell you this, and I can be straight up honest with you. Like, I am not completely healed of depression and anxiety. I'm not telling you that right now at all, and I am not ashamed to say that. But what I am saying is the more that I connect with my community, the more that I connect with my wife, and the more that I just keep moving and going and telling my story, it does give me hope because there are many of days, many of days I still would rather not get out of bed because I'm like, I've lost hope in this area and this area and this area. We're always, always, always, always going to have something going on in our lives.

SPEAKER_05 1:00:33

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:34

But I want what our pastors say, he would say, um, everything's not going good, but everything's not going bad. Right. Right. And I think where my mind usually wants to go to is like the negative stuff. And I think a lot of people can probably relate to that that don't have hope, right? Um, not all of our prayers are going to be answered. It's just not. And and they and if they do get answered, they're not always like what we think it should be or what it's going to be. Right. But I mean, you just man, hope is just such a tough thing sometimes. It's a it's a really hard journey. So that's that's why I say it's a powerful question. But the one thing I feel like the Lord has just downloaded in me and the Holy Spirit's like community, community, community, community. The people around you is going to really be there to hold you up when you can't.

SPEAKER_05 1:01:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:01:24

If you hang out with people who are hanging out in the bars on the streets and doing drugs and all that stuff, that's what you're gonna do, and it's gonna heal you for about uh a day, and then the next day you're gonna be 20 times worse. So exactly. I've been there, done that too. Yeah, where you feel filthy and nasty, and all these things have happened the night before, and you're like, what? Yeah, you know, and it's like, yeah, and then and then you carry more of that burden on you. So, like that, don't do that.

SPEAKER_00 1:01:48

Yeah, yeah, you absolutely right. And you know, I was going through this thing where because you know, I I've been in California for over 20 years, that's where my community is. But I always thought that those are my friends, those are my people. And it took me to come here to Akron, Ohio to realize those are not my friends, those are not my that that's not my community. That isn't where I belong. I ride Harley's. So, and I was in a motorcycle club, and I thought this is sisterhood, and this is where I'm supposed to be, but there was so much when I and I'm gonna actually do a podcast on it. In in the motors on the motorcycle set, there is just so much mental health craziness. I can't even begin to explain it, but I always thought that well, I'm around my my sisters, you know, and I'm I'm okay, and I'll and I'll be okay long as I don't get involved in that stuff or that stuff. It's not true. You are who you hang with.

SPEAKER_03 1:02:52

Yes, ma'am. It's true.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:54

So now here I am in Akron, Ohio, and I have no friends here, and I even have family. I and I have family, but I I don't have a relationship with my family. You know, and it and it and it sometimes sometimes it I get really, really, really sad about it, and I feel very lonely. But the one thing that I know it um it is I do believe it's because I'm on this path. God has me on this journey. Just like I have a nonprofit Konsuchi transformation enterprise, is to help women and girls. Yeah, I just launched um a girls mentor mentorship. I never wanted to work for girl, teenage girls.

SPEAKER_05 1:03:32

I never that that was that was the thing. Right.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:34

I like my listen. That's not my plan. No, it's not, but it is so so you know, so you're right, it is about who you surround yourself, and I'm not surrounded by anybody but my husband right now. That's it. And I when I say that I am very intentional in this season about who I allow my space, who I connect myself with, the conversations that I have with people, it's very important to me. I wrote a book called Cut Off. I'm estranged from two of my children. My son, which is 42 years old, then I have another daughter that's I think she's 38, 30, and I'm estranged from her for the second time because I let me tell you something. God ain't playing in this season, okay? He is not playing in this season. I have when it comes to my ministry, what I needed to do for God, it has always been people who has interfered with that. And then I was like, okay, God, I'll I'll come back too as soon as I I finish helping them. Or and and and along the way, and sad to say, my own children was a part of it. That they came and they used and abused, and and I just couldn't, it was just no more. And then when I started saying no, it was like, oh, they they didn't disappear. They hate me now. I'm a horrible mom, and all this, that, and the other. Well, okay, be it, be it as it may. But if you have to be amongst the people that I cannot have a relationship with right now, I'm okay with that. Yeah, because yeah, one thing that I'm gonna do, this ministry here that God has assigned me to, it's gonna it's gonna move forward. And I'm not allowing nobody else and nothing else to interfere with that. Hands down.

SPEAKER_04 1:05:23

Yeah, I think and like T things just real quick that you said, like with talking about the children, um, that can be tough. And it's like I I and I keep saying this, um, the older they get, the harder it can be. And um there there comes a time where we have to give them to the Lord, and um that's the hardest part because you know, we my wife and I were talking yesterday that there's a love for a child that like you don't understand it. If you don't have a child, you don't understand this. It's a whole different love. It's a different love than a spouse, it's a different love, you know. Um, and the hardest part is. To have to disconnect or have to just, you know, but we are still their example. Right. And um it's it's just it can be really tough. So I can understand that. My my youngest, he's only 15, but man, the changes that have happened in the last year have been frightening.

SPEAKER_05 1:06:16

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:16

Um, and I'm like, I see my 15-year-old self in him now, and I'm like, oh Lord, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. Um, and it's just scaring me, you know, a lot. On a brighter note, the thing that you mentioned was your motorcycle stuff. Uh, my wife loves motorcycles, she has her own motorcycle. She needs she needs people to to to yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:37

Call me, call me.

SPEAKER_04 1:06:38

Yeah, yeah. So she's been uh yeah, it's at it's at her um old house still in the garage. We just moved, but we have to go get it here as soon as she wants to take it out. So I'll have to let her know because when you said that, I'm like, Yes, I am gay. Yeah, she loves that stuff. Like that's that that's her thing. It's not my thing, but I'm okay with it. Like I support it if that's what she likes to do, you know. So that would be cool for you guys to be able to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:01

My husband ride too. Yeah, and I know we I travel all over. I travel state to state.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:06

Oh, that's so good.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:06

So yeah, I do, yeah. I it's oh my gosh, she's gonna love that. Oh, yeah. I love that.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:12

Yeah, she's gonna love that. You guys have to connect on that for sure. Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:15

Yeah, that's it. So, Brandon, look, I want to ask a few more questions because I got so I got so many questions, but I know we and I can be able to get through all of them. But I wonder. Yeah, yeah, go for it, yeah. One of the one things that I wanted to ask, um, what do you hope that people get from your book when they read it?

SPEAKER_04 1:07:32

Yeah. Wow, um, there's so much um that went into this. And you know, I was looking over, I have um my laptop in front of me because I I was going through this stuff and I was like taking the question seriously because I'm like, whenever anybody wants to interview me or like you know, talk to me about this stuff, I always want to make sure that like, okay, what are we talking about? Like, what do you want to know, you know? And um I feel like I can't even find that question on here. It's okay though. Um I feel like the the thing that I would want people to get the most is hope, to be honest with you. And the reason I say that is because when I share my parts of my story and I and I've done and from experience, I know people are like, hey, this one spoke to me, and I'm like, oh wow, really? And it's like, well, I don't know what you're going through when you're reading this. I don't know what part. So here the cool thing about what the Lord did for this book was he put together um uh different situations, right? Uh different things. Like we go from um, you know, starting off by dying to self with the shift to like wounds to hold on one second, I just want to kind of open this up. I haven't memorized everything in this book, but you know, the inner battle of uh, you know, the shift and clothed in his image, like things like that, to the wounds to the breaking point, to rebuilding, to love and legacy, eternal perspective, and still becoming, right? So you have a little bit of everything in there. So I just gave you a little tiny piece of things that I have been through in real stories, right? And this is just like I said, this is just getting started. Like, I'm gonna really expand on all this in the memoir. But I think that like no matter what part you read, I mean, you can read about um loving fashion, for instance, right? And um putting that above everything, but also how it can bring us insecurity. You know, it's like I'm a huge uh fashion guy. I love fashion, I'm a sneaker head. I have I I my wife yells at me still, but it's okay. She's no, she doesn't yell at me. She's she was just like uh, you know, she's she's blown away by it. I've been I've been that way for okay. So yeah, I love, love, love, love sneakers. I love fashion, uh, I enjoy that stuff, I keep up with it. I'm like a child at heart when it comes to it. But I have something called clothed in his image. And the reason I did that was because sometimes we can uh get too caught up in what we look like. Um, and I look, I'm never gonna not love fashion and sneakers. I'm just sorry, Lord, I'm just not, and I don't feel bad about it. Okay. Yeah, it's just who I am, and it's okay, um, as long as it doesn't become an idol, right? But I wrote about I wrote about that and and what it means to be clothed in his image. And like sometimes, I don't know if you've ever been there, I'm sure a lot of people have, but it's like I write about the fact of um you put on this outfit that you think you're gonna look this way in because you saw the model rocking it online and you put it on, you're like, this doesn't look right. Yeah, I don't look good in this, I shouldn't wear this. And it's like, well, why do we say those things? Yeah, you know, and it's like um, because I know there's been many a times I put on something, I'm like, man, this looked good on that person, but it don't look good on me, you know, or I'm 45, I can't do this. And it's like, well, no, like we can, like we can, like the like it's a confidence booster in there, you know, of of talking about that. The chair talks about um uh church hurt, for instance, you know, and and and walking with people through go who went through church hurt and what that looks like. I mean, my best friend pastored the church for the for, I mean, oh my gosh, like it was it's it's rough, you know. And then that that rebuilding phase, the rebuilding phase just really shows the hope of like what does that look like? And then love and legacy. Everybody wants to, I mean, I have a part here called to my chocolate queen. That's to my wife, you know. And like people love that piece, yeah, because I feel like it's it's it's probably one of the most it's one of the best things that happened in in my life, you know. And then right to follow that is called Bonus Daughter, which is her oldest daughter. Uh, she called me bonus dad when we had gotten married, you know. And she was the one I thought I was gonna struggle with the most. She just moved to Chicago, but she is um, she's just a special person to me, and it's the daughter I never had, you know. So I get to write about those things. So it's hope. It's hope, it's it's it's really centered around hope. You can read that and say, Man, like I've been there. Um uh and then and then the here the thing is I get to put my insight on it and saying, like, here's why I wrote this, I wrote this because, yeah, and it's like you don't even realize through the spoken word, you might not know until I break it down for you on why I wrote wound of a brother. So when I'm telling you that my best friend uh was also my pastor and was supposed to be the best man of my wedding and never showed up, you know what I mean? Like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:35

Wow. Was that the hardest chapter that you wrote, you think?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:39

I was angry when I wrote that.

SPEAKER_02 1:12:42

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:12:43

Uh but I don't I don't feel bad about it. I I mean, I was real careful uh to point everything back to Jesus, but I I I did not hold back the rawness because I think it's okay to have right to say anything. Right. If you're if your homegirl was like your pastor, your best friend, she was gonna be your maid of honor, and then y'all fell out because of some stuff she did and she didn't even show up to your wedding. I'm sure you'd feel a certain way. So if you're writing about it, right, you're probably not writing about it from a place of love at that point. You have to give it to God. Um that's okay. Yeah, it is okay. So I wrote probably from a place of anger, but when I speak it, people are silent, yeah, because of of the things that are said, but it's like it's like, look, like it's real though. It's real, and uh so yeah, I would say like I want people to find hope in this stuff. I want people to know that like anything is possible and change is there if you want it, we have to still put in the work. I'm not telling you that you can just sit on a couch and like it is, you know, because the Lord wants us to also give him a hundred percent, right? Um, not just 50, but like he'll work with us, right? Um but like we have to put in the work too. Like I know some people I've seen that sit around, they're like, oh, the Lord will do this. Well, yeah, he will, but you gotta actually put in your part too, right? Um, you can't just sit around and and not do anything and then just think that it just doesn't work that way. Um so that that that's what I think. I'm hoping like motivation and hope are like two of like the probably the most important things on this. Um, and I I mean my contact information is in there. Anybody can reach out to me and talk to me. I love talking to people, and it is zero dollars and zero cents to talk to me, so which is awesome to be able to do, you know what I mean? Like, I'm not encouraging people to do that. Um, so I mean, like, I just love doing that and like walking alongside of people and like talking to them. So, like, I'm really hoping that uh my story can help others who are are struggling in those areas as well. And I know from again from experience, there are certain pieces that have already spoken to others.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:56

So Brandon, um, when when history tells your story, what do you hope people will say the man who was still walking?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:06

Yeah, so I don't I don't necessarily want people to remember Brandon Hathaway. Like that's not what I would want. I hope they can remember that uh they aren't alone, right? Um if five years, let's say five years from now, because I saw that you had put a question here and said five years from now, someone picks up this book during their darkest season and finds open Jesus, then this book accomplished exactly what it was supposed to do.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:35

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:37

Okay, so I'm not writing this for my legacy, my story. No, I mean, well, it's my story, but I'm not writing it uh to glorify myself. I'm literally just saying, like, I don't want them to remember, you know, oh, Brandon Hathaway. No, because there's a lot of Brandon Hathaways out there, you know, there really are. And when I say that, I mean we're all unique in ourselves, but I'm saying the struggles that I've been through, the struggles that you've been through. Yep, you know, we're both we're that that's that's that's just what it is. But I just like I said, I hope they remember that they aren't alone, like they that's you are never alone. And five years someone picks up that book and the their darkest season finds hope in Jesus.

SPEAKER_05 1:16:16

Yeah, man.

SPEAKER_04 1:16:17

That's what's up. That's that's where it's at. That's where it's at. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:16:22

Oh so Brandon, what's uh I mean, so what's next? What's what's happening next?

SPEAKER_04 1:16:28

Man, so much. Um, so um I have a uh devotional dropping on August 1st, I'll be at um Joyful Interactions on Westmarket Street in Akron. Yeah, shout out to Joyful Interactions. Um I'll be yeah, yeah. I'll be uh doing a book signing with Still Walking. I'll also be having my um my devotional release that day. It's a 30-day devotional, but it's also a very raw devotional. It's called One More Time. The reason it's called One More Time is because if you've ever had something in your life that you're doing that you know you shouldn't be doing, and you say, Okay, I'm gonna just do it this one more time, Lord, or I'm or you just tell yourself, I'm just gonna do it this one more time, and then I'm gonna stop. What does that look like? So just to give you a little sneak peek, the reason I wrote that is from drug dealing into ministry. So that's where I'll just leave it at that and just say that was part of my story, and now it's time to tell it through the devotional. So that's why it's called one more time, because I would just say, okay, Lord, one more time. Right. But it doesn't match up, right, with uh with who I was uh who I was trying to be. So that's why why I wrote one more time. It's a it's a banger, it's a banger because um I really feel in my heart that these devotionals, each day, it's a 30-day devotional. I'm thinking about turning one into a 365 because this is a good one. But I'm telling you, those 30 days are super powerful, and I'm super excited about what the Lord did through me for this devotional. And I think people are really gonna be able to relate because it's another raw, raw situation that you're gonna walk through. And you're really gonna have to face some hard facts about yourself through this devotional. So just be prepared for it, like you know, because I'm facing hard facts about myself reading the the stuff that the Lord wrote through me, you know. So yeah, that's that's what I've got coming up. Uh Still Walking will be a series. I don't know when the second book's gonna drop yet. My wife and I are getting this nonprofit mental health and Jesus up and running. So there's gonna be some like book releases through that, some classes. We have a lot of things we're working on, but um, I also have music available, all types of things coming out. Um, so I'm just excited what the Lord's doing. He's definitely filled my plates, and um my wife and I are getting busy on it. So and I really appreciate like spending time with you today. It's been amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:18:56

Of course, Brandon, where can people find you if they wanted to get in touch with you?

SPEAKER_04 1:19:01

Yeah, absolutely. So I have um I have what's called linked tree. Um, I wish I would have had my QR code to put up here, so I'm sorry I came unprepared with that. Um Brandon Hathaway Official. Yeah, I yes, and I will. Um, so Brandon Hathaway Official, you can find me on YouTube, you can find me on Instagram, faith, uh Facebook. I'm just under my my name, Brandon Hathaway. Um, you can find me on Apple Music, Spotify, everything, every platform I'm on. If you search Brandon Hathaway Official, one word, here I am. Uh, Amazon, the books on Amazon for sale right now. Uh, you can also hit me up directly if you're like me and you just are instant gratification and want it now. Uh, you can hit me up at brandonhathawayofficial at gmail.com. I'd be happy to deliver a copy to you. So yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:19:56

Okay. Well, we would definitely make sure that all your information is in the description when people were reading it. I am so let me tell you, me and you could have my podcast usually only lasts about 45 minutes. We've been on almost an hour and a half.

SPEAKER_04 1:20:10

Oh wow, that's amazing.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:11

I wanted to do that. Oh no, no, it's an hour and a half. I wanted to ask you, but yeah, for sure. Yeah, we get them a part two. You just let me know. No, that's not two. That's all.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:20

Yeah, yeah, we're gonna have a part two for sure. Yeah, this is a good conversation. I appreciate you.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:26

Yeah, and I'm so honored. Thank you for stopping by. I appreciate you. Um, tell the wife I said call me so we can write.

SPEAKER_02 1:20:34

I will for sure. Yeah, I will for sure. 100%.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:37

Yeah, and that'd be great. I'm looking forward to you know seeing you guys again. You are amazing. Like I said, I want to do it with my husband. I believe that you and my husband will hit it off. Hit it off. Really good guy. He's into um, you know, we have we got a lot of toys. We have a lot of toys. And I just heard him pull off. We uh just got the our Corvette out, and so we've been in that for the last couple of days, but uh it's gonna be the 90s this week. He's a master mechanic, he's awesome. I'm I'm gonna get get you with him, okay? So which uh you can get it.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:12

We should probably do some double dating and and all that.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:16

For sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:17

Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, that'd be amazing. I'd love that. And I know if she would too. We're always looking to hang out with people, so yeah, and you guys are good people, so we appreciate and very honored to be a part of this today. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:30

All right, Brandon. I will see you again sometime soon.

SPEAKER_04 1:21:34

All right, Venus. Sounds good.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

Thank you for stopping by. Bye, you guys. Bye to the next time.