"The Rocket Man"

Welcome to "It's About Time"!

Join me today as I introduce you to Dr. Philip Koshy Panicker.

Dr. Panicker holds a PhD in Aerospace Engineering from the University of Texas at Arlington.

From a young age, he was fascinated by flight, a passion that took him across the globe in pursuit of higher education. Thanks to this journey, he discovered not only his passion for what lies beyond the stars but also his deep love of teaching.

Dr. Panicker began teaching while in America, which eventually led him back to the UAE, where he taught at New York University Abu Dhabi. His research and expertise span supersonic engines, rockets, waste-to-energy systems, and the circular economy.

A man who was born in India, raised in the UAE, completed his higher education in the USA, lived in Brazil, and taught at one of the most prestigious universities in the UAE… Dr. Panicker truly has an amazing story!

So sit back and relax because "It's About Time" to get started!

If you want to get in touch with Dr. Philip Panicker you can follow him on:

linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipkpanicker/
e-mail: pkp7000@gmail.com

Follow the podcast on Instagram: 

@itsabouttimeiat

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

You call yourself boring.

SPEAKER_01 0:02

Yes, I'm one of the most boring people. Right. I love to look at uh my students and see their eyes when they discover or they understand something. You know, that aha moment. That Eureka moment. Yes. I'm totally gripped by the idea of converting waste into energy. In nature, there's no such thing as waste. To me, you are one of those masters. As engineers, we don't talk like that.

SPEAKER_00 0:28

So when it's it's so wonderful to hear others say Well, I am the guy that doesn't really, he's not really on the rails, you know. Hi everybody, and welcome once again to It's About Time. I'm your host, Chris, and today we're gonna meet a good friend of mine, Mr. Philip Paniker. Mr. Philip Paniker is actually my neighbor in 2024. I moved to a new community in Umalquaya, an emirate, one of the seven emirates of the UAE, uh, where I was introduced into this beautiful place called Mistral. There I met different neighbors, and one of them is Mr. Philip. Mr. Philip is a PhD in aerospace engineering from the University of Texas at Arlington. And Mr. Philip, how are you? And thank you for joining me today. Hey neighbor, it's good to see you again. Indeed it is, indeed it is. So, Philip, I had the pleasure of spending some wonderful evenings with you, uh sharing some cigars, which is a common pleasure we have, uh, and drinking some whiskey. That's right. Because we do like that as well. And throughout all this time, we always end up having uh a lot of conversations and debates on different topics, yeah, a lot of debates, but philosophical ones, yeah, philosophical ones for sure. And today, though, I want to talk about something that is very dear to me because I find it to be the most interesting part of you, oh, which is you, me, yeah. I want to know your story. Oh, we had a little chat last night and uh we went over some of these things, but uh you call yourself boring.

SPEAKER_01 2:15

Yes, I'm one of the most boring people, right?

SPEAKER_00 2:18

Yet this boring person yesterday was relating to me an adventure of an eight-hour motorcycle ride from where to where?

SPEAKER_01 2:26

Well, I was in Bangalore from Bangalore, and then we drove to Madras or Chennai, and obviously you booked your hotels and you had money and you had cell phones and you had everything. Uh no, no, we we just got on the bike, uh, motorcycle and just took off. Right. So that sounds really boring. Yeah. Uh yeah, in in the grand scheme of things. Okay.

SPEAKER_00 2:51

Additional people to to your your boring life, of course. You are a gentleman that uh has lived in India, uh-huh that has been brought up in the UAE, yes, that left to study in the USA, but lived in Brazil as well, yeah, and has come back to the UAE. Yes, back to the B. Sounds extremely boring compared to everybody else's life.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Yeah, relatively speaking, on the grand scheme of things, that's quite a boring.

SPEAKER_00 3:19

Give us a little outlook about the whole uh the whole trip. How how how did you come from India? How did you come from India to the UAE? Yeah, and then from the UAE, how did you end up going to USA? Why do you have a PhD in aerospace engineering? Yeah, and finally, why uh Brazil? What was in Brazil? And eventually your return here.

SPEAKER_01 3:41

Yeah, that's a lot a lot of questions. Uh you're gonna have to remind me.

SPEAKER_00 3:45

I I will guide you, I'll I'll try my best.

SPEAKER_01 3:48

Okay, so the the first question. So, how how did I come from India? And I'm so glad that by then, long time ago, uh, that they had invented airplanes by then, you know. So um I was able to fly into Dubai, and uh and it was it was it was amazing, it was really a a different world than what I had seen in in Kerala, India. Sorry, Philip, I'm gonna interrupt you immediately.

SPEAKER_00 4:18

Oh, okay. How different was Dubai when you arrived than the Dubai you see today?

SPEAKER_01 4:24

Oh yeah. Dubai has changed considerably, right? It has um grown, it has um um modernized. Um the the buildings look completely different than the architecture that we had back then. Um back then it was a bit uh a lot more traditional Arabian-looking buildings, and we had a lot more open deserts uh within the city, a lot more open spaces, um fewer buildings.

SPEAKER_00 4:55

And you we had as well land cruiser taxis, yes, road taxis. Well, I don't remember taking one of those, but yes, I I heard about that. Yeah, because the Hilton, the one that is in JBR, used to be in the middle of the desert. There were no roads, yeah, other than a uh a sandy road, yeah, and the taxis were off-road taxis that would take you there.

SPEAKER_01 5:17

Yeah, you had to go off-road to get to places, yeah. Yeah, so I um grew up in a little village um in uh Kerala, in the middle of Kerala, and uh I spent some time in a boarding school while my parents came here and um and then they brought me over here when it was. So your parents came here, uh-huh. Uh they came here for what reason? Um for employment reasons. Um, so they uh came here to find a job. Okay, and my father found uh a job here in Dubai. And I think I I don't think they intended to stay as long as they did, um, but they spent over 45 years before they returned back to Kerala. Yeah. Um and so then I spent um uh most of my childhood here in Dubai. Went to school and then I completed high school and went back to India for for college. Um yeah, and then I I came back here. Uh Dubai does feel like home, you know. So yeah, so it feels good to come back here.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

Yeah, feeling of home is something uh very good. We had uh another guest in the show that uh said the same words. Dubai feels like home.

SPEAKER_01 6:40

Yeah, more than Kerala. I mean it it feels it is a home in Kerala. Uh when I go there, um it it it's a different sort of home, but I'm more familiar with the the feeling here, you know, of being part of this community. Um and uh the people I know here are more familiar. Um I do have a lot of friends back in Kerala, but uh it's a different feeling being here. Um now I do have that nostalgia of the childhood in Kerala, you know, being in the in the farms and in in the rivers and so on, uh the paddy fields and and so on. Um so as a but spending time as a child running around in those um locations. It that also does bring me joy. Um yeah, but Dubai feels uh way different. It's it's and uh it's a modern city, right? So growing up in a city versus uh living in a village also um has its own uh uh special warmth, you know, warmth feelings.

SPEAKER_00 7:57

Uh one of your passions from what you have told me was flying, yeah, the idea of flying, and uh and I guess that led you as well to eventually uh get your PhD in uh aerospace uh engineering. How how did you get to the PhD? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 8:17

Well, it uh it was a long road, and for a long time I I thought I may not make it because I uh screwed up a lot. Um you messed about. Uh yes, I messed up a lot. It's okay. Um, so let that be a lesson to you. Stay in school, kids. Um so when now the when you live in Dubai, you're in a very safe environment. Um and uh living with your parents, you are protected and you have certain limited options, you know. And so when you when I went to college in India, I experienced uh a certain amount of freedom to make my own decisions and uh um make a lot of mistakes, and so I did.

SPEAKER_00 9:07

I but uh this is not just you, this is most individuals that leave home at a young age. I did the same when I went to USA for college. Yeah, I I messed about everywhere, but uh it's okay. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:23

So that that is that is the um the happy ending of well not the end, but the the happy result of the story. Um I messed about, I thought I would fail and end up a loser, but um the but it um I it changed. I uh um I refocused and uh completed my degree, uh made a lot of good friends, uh made a lot of good memories back in Bangalore, and um then I returned to Dubai and uh started on a course towards um higher education that I always wanted to do. So since I was a child, I always wanted to be a scientist and get a PhD in America. Uh that was one of the dreams that to go to America to study. So back in the 80s, I think a lot of kids had that dream of going to the US to study in a university. It it felt like there was no other place where they had universities, I think, as a child. That that was one of those uh um false um ideas that you had about the world, you know? That uh in in our part of the world.

SPEAKER_00 10:44

Um well, I remember the marketing of uh American education was quite strong. Yes, you go to America and all of a sudden everything's good. I remember cartoons of my childhood that says America is free of problems and you're free in America and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Exactly. It's okay. It's uh, you know, it brought you to America though.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

Yeah, so it took me to America, and I thought, okay, so this is it. This is uh this feels better than Dubai. Um the weather. Well, it was similar though. You were in Texas. I was in Texas, so it was warm. I was used to the the heat. Yeah. So I I could more than tolerate the weather there. Um, and they they have snowstorms about twice a year in January. Did you get tornadoes? Did you get tornadoes? Oh, yes, the tornado warnings. Yes, we get those, yeah. Um, we get tornadoes. Um, I think that's in the summer sometimes. Yeah. Um, that was different. And uh there was a different kind of um freedom there in America, and also um I did have a lot of intellectual growth. I had uh um a lot of information coming my way, so I I had to I got to learn a lot of different things very quickly. Um and now with the internet uh availability, I think um it it has it has become more universal. Um but at that time, so if you're here, you can still have access to intellectual uh concepts that you're you know that you're not limited geographically now. But back then it was you had to be there to get it, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:30

By the way, um since we're saying back then, uh can you give me an idea or approximation of when you went to the USA?

SPEAKER_01 12:38

Yeah, so I landed there uh late 1999. Okay, 99.

SPEAKER_00 12:43

Yeah, and so um, and then um you had AOL in 1999, right? We had dial-up internet, yes, and you had intranet actually, because I remember uh uh AOL and uh American Online, I think it was that yes, was uh a whole server structure where people could go and post stuff in the on the servers of AOL, it was not open, okay. Yes, and I I was there in 2000. In 2001, yeah. In 2000, sorry, I was there in 2000. Oh, okay, yes, at the same time as me. I was 18. Okay, I was a little bit older. Yeah, you were doing your PhD, I was getting in my college. No, I was doing my master's. Oh, you were doing your master's?

SPEAKER_01 13:29

Yes, all right. So I did my bachelor's in Bangalore, and then I went for my master's uh to the US. Um, so I spent some time in the UAE working, and then I went for my higher uh degrees. Um, and um also there was no YouTube at that time. Yes, internet was kind of primitive back then. There was no Google, we had all these other search engines, um, and uh it was much slower, and so you would get these uh AOL CD ROMs in the mail, and you would get them all over the place, you know. So you had to subscribe to dial up internet, correct? And then gradually we got DSL, which was faster, but yeah, so you had to get that the modems and all of that to log in.

SPEAKER_00 14:22

And there's primitive sounds a lot of kids today don't even know what they look like, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 14:27

Uh-huh. So you had to carry a cable around to plug in to the internet, you know, so like a uh a LAN cable. That's how you would log into the internet.

SPEAKER_00 14:38

You know, when I was in the USA, I was I was really into video gaming, and so we used to have LAN parties, yes, which is everybody would carry the laptop or the computer and connect all the computers through a series of LAN cables, yes, and you would have a LAN party, yeah, closed network of people where you could play games together. Yeah, it was pretty weird actually, because everybody had a screen, a keyboard, a mouse, and the computer, yeah, and and your land socket would be kind of worn out of your laptops, right?

SPEAKER_01 15:10

Always plugging in, plugging out, yeah, and then Wi-Fi came much later. Yeah, and then uh 9-11 happened, 2001. Okay, yeah, so that changed a lot. Before that, um traveling uh was a little bit more fun, I would say.

SPEAKER_00 15:28

It was pleasant, much more pleasant. Well, going to the airport was a really nice experience. Exactly. People were dressing nice as well. I remember it was it was a nice experience going to the airport. Nicer, the food after that, everybody became a criminal, or at least treated like one. I had a flight connecting through Dubai to India, so I could take a pocket knife. People could take all sorts of things. My grandmother used to take her knitting needles for wool, yeah, which are these really long needles. Oh, yeah, yeah. And then eventually one day they took them off, took them away.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

And then on the on the way back, they confiscated my nail clippers in London. Oh, I guess you had dinosaur nail clipper. No, it was just one of those, you know, low-cost, yeah, I understand common looking nail clippers. They went very much. They're not even sharp. Yeah, I know. Like they they used to come with a little knife in the in those days. Now they took the knife out uh of the nail clippers. But yeah, I had just bought one because I thought maybe I'll do my do my nails on the plane or in the airport.

SPEAKER_00 16:30

So you went you went to USA to do your master's and uh you did your master's, and then you followed into a PhD right away? Well, no, I had to take a break.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

I came back to Dubai. Oh, okay. Yeah, so uh because my parents were here, my brother and my sister. We grew up here. So I have two other siblings. We grew up here, um, and we also have other relatives, uh cousins, and so on. So I came back after my master's and um and then I was trying to decide uh what should I do. I have to pick a research topic, and so then I decided that I'll go back to the familiar surroundings of uh at UT Arlington and with the same professor and or professors, and so I just went back there uh but um yeah, one about six months later and I started my PhD there um in 2004. Yeah. So and what was your PhD about? So I picked the topic of uh detonation based engines for flight. So uh at that time, there was uh in the 2000s, there was a lot of interest in propulsed detonation engines. And so I wanted to study that. And prior to that I had studied uh supersonic flows and uh high-speed engines, and um so detonation was uh a progression on on that, and so I um started a uh study on detonation-based engines. Um now um this is a period after 9-11, you know, and so uh I thought, well, is that a good idea to work with detonation? You know, it tends to give the wrong impression to people. And uh, in fact, I remember going to the library at UT Arlington, and I borrowed um uh about uh 10 books from the library on on detonation. Then I took it to the librarian to check it in, and then she this lady was reading all the titles, you know, detonation flows, detonation studies, detonation, uh experimental detonation, etc. etc. And and then she's looking at me and looking at the books and then looking at my ID, and uh well then she checked it in, and so I don't know what she did after that, but um I was a little scared uh at that time, but yeah, so that's what I studied. Okay, and and um well I I like uh tinkering, so I what became an experimental uh uh aero or gas dynamicist.

SPEAKER_00 19:34

So I think that sounds funky.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

Um well yeah, gas dynamics is the family where we have um aerodynamics and uh even combustion and so on. Um and it all comes under, you could say, fluid dynamics, fluid mechanics. Um so I became an experimental gas dynamicist, and so I uh worked on designing and building um pulse detonation engines and testing them and then acquiring the data and um then analyzing the data and then um and then analyzing and then writing and presenting and then building uh better uh versions of the engines.

SPEAKER_00 20:23

Have any of these engines been utilized uh commercially or to up to your knowledge? Any of the of what you have researched or what you have worked on?

SPEAKER_01 20:34

So uh there were a lot of pulse detonation engine researchers at the time, and you could tell from the conferences that they were full. There were several sessions on at the um aerospace conferences um at that time in the early 2000s to the late 2000s. Um only one of the groups, research groups, uh, managed to fly an aircraft with a pulse detonation engine. Um, most of the others uh remained at the ground test level. Um, so the US Air Force research labs, they managed to fly one uh small aircraft with a pulse detonation engine. Now it did not go into um the commercial um production stage, um that is the what you call the technology readiness level, TRLs. So we didn't get past, I would say, seven-ish um up to nine. Um yeah. And then um as I moved to my postdoc um postdoctorate work, also on pulse detonation engines, the interest uh um moved to from pulse detonation engines to rotational uh detonation. engines RDEs. So from PDEs to RDEs. And then you could tell at the conferences the PDE crowd was diminishing and the RDE was growing, but slowly. So overall the detonation research um kind of died out. Okay. Um towards um the 2010s. And it was replaced by what? The they moved on to well overall um research in high speed flows uh reduced high speed engines reduced in the early 2010s and moved to to rockets hybrid rockets and so on. Okay. So a much more primitive type of technology? They moved to um hybrid rockets so that that you would have um liquid fueled instead of solid fuel. As opposed to solid uh rockets um and so now we are seeing those rockets you know being used by SpaceX and others right um so the interest shifted towards um rockets and also um the interest in space um grew because of satellites okay um and for satellite launch and so rockets became necessary and so uh supersonic um supersonic travel or um propulsion we uh lost interest it um and and moved to other um regimes of uh the aerospace uh domain um and so for a long time the detonation work um declined it was in in a just a very small community of uh academics uh doing that work and then in the mid 2010s um the rotation rotational detonation engine uh interest picked up because they wanted to develop um that technology for missiles and so there a lot more rd work appeared um in academia and in in the uh defense industry and so on government funding money and a lot of government funding money yeah so now most of that work uh has shifted to rde's very few people doing pulse detonation engines um and we are seeing several RDE based rotational detonation engine based uh missiles okay uh from China China is leading in the volume of work uh as well as uh some from NASA and the defense sector in the US uh another important thing that uh helped this move is the development of computing uh for computational fluid dynamics um so better um computers and software came on the scene and so that helped um develop the uh rotational detonation uh engine uh simulation work and uh computational studies and design cool so so you managed to finish your PhD yeah I managed yes this is great yes you sometimes people tend to uh stay as a ground student in Italy this is very common people go for PhDs and they finish I don't know 48 because it's just a never ending process for them. Yeah and uh and some of them fall in love yes with the idea of just staying in the academic world yes and they never they they never want to leave they they love that space yes yeah so it it's it's all good and now you finish your PhD and throughout this period you also met your wife yes my wife um how did you meet your wife uh by just turning to my side in the classroom and there she was oh and we were classmates um and so she we met in math class first and then the fluid mechanics class and then uh we became lab mates um yep that's that's fluid mechanic lab mates um yes then she started working with uh detonation engines as well uh she was doing the computational research and I was doing the experimental research and and we were labmates and uh so we were working together with a number of others and then we started going out and um yeah I think it's been 25 years or so since we met.

SPEAKER_00 27:17

That's beautiful man not many people can attest to such a lengthy marriage. Well we only got married much later we were nerds grad students for a long time yeah and we just stayed as nerds for a long long time it's okay you know united by nerdism yes nerds of the world united great man so we must take over but yesterday you touched up on what you were telling us a little bit of your life story yesterday you mentioned that you ended you ended up in Brazil yes so tell us more about that um why brazil well uh Rafaela happens to be from Brazil Rafaela is Mr.

SPEAKER_01 28:01

Philip's Brazilian wife that's right so um well she's half Italian kind of like you yeah she is yeah so she has some family over there who happen to like uh proseco a lot um I think almost everybody today likes proseco they've done marketing for that yes I hope you get sponsored for the show yeah man um so um yes so Rafaela and I um we got married um towards the after my PhD and I was uh I started on my postdoc and so she was finished finishing up her PhD and then uh she got uh pregnant and we thought well um we are gonna have an anchor baby um we thought well what are what what are the consequences or results of of having an you know a baby in the US we were thinking of that uh and continuing to live in the US so that was our initial plan but uh things changed we found that um Rafaela's mom was um uh in the last stages of um cancer um and so we um we just dropped everything after our uh degrees were completed um and we decided we need to go and spend time in Brazil so that uh we can be with her she was uh her my mother-in-law was not in a pos in a condition to travel and uh so she would not be able to come and see Rafaela graduate or anything or have the uh see the baby in the US so we canceled our um the the the postdegree uh um in visa status you know as uh what what they call the optional practical training period so we canceled that and uh moved to brazil to Rio de Janeiro um to be with uh her family and um sadly she did pass before our son was born and um but we got to spend uh a lot of valuable time with uh her mom and her dad and sister and other hollows Rio Rio was um uh sweet and sour you could say you know so a lot of amazing things uh the people are very friendly and they love outdoor barbecuing oh all the time um and they're very friendly they love to party uh and get together all the time um but then the driving um is crazy it's uh not as bad as india i would say but uh uh the uh driving in Rio is crazy um and also the bureaucracy reminded me of uh the Indian bureaucracy it's very slow and tedious and just time consuming um and and uh nerve wracking so um yeah so though that part was uh sour but the people were very nice that's nice um yeah and they and I could fit right in you know that that's the thing about Brazilians uh you you you can look like anybody you can you can uh uh look like a any kind of human and you would fit right in that's super cool man there are all kinds of uh people of all kinds of complexions and hair types and all right and sizes and so on um so they thought I was one of them did you learn some Portuguese? Well a few words not not a lot but yeah I did learn a few words of Portuguese did you dance some samba um a few times a few times in the parties but no no just dancing I wasn't very good at uh samba but uh by the way guys Philip is a truly accomplished rapper no it's just no he's talking about vanilla ice ice ice baby that's that's the limit of my okay accomplishments in rap Julio oh yes who can forget the gangster's paradise yes yeah yeah yes god bless julio he does he does proper interpretations and karaoke just give him a mic maybe a shot of whiskey to follow yes start with a drink well that's cool man all right so brazil and then and then i i was applying to um an academic position in the us and we were thinking of uh living in brazil also and then i applied also to the u ae and uh i got selected uh to work at um uh new y'all and so yeah i'm gonna interrupt you a second uh one of the things we haven't said about mr philip is that mr phili is actually professor philip he is an educator was an educator at the university of american university of Abu Dhabi New York University New York University of Abu Dhabi excuse me uh where he was teaching yes and what were you teaching well they did not have aerospace at NYU Abu Dhabi so um but they do have aerospace engineering back in New York uh so I taught um mechanical engineering some electrical engineering and then there were students who were interested in aerospace engineering and so I got to teach uh aerospace as well and so I taught these three was this your first experience teaching no I was teaching back at UT Arlington um so this was yeah so this was uh but this was more as a uh faculty um so I was a lecturer back in uh UT Arlington so here uh I taught as a senior lecturer of engineering so yeah okay and uh did you do you like teaching I love teaching why um I love to I love to look at uh my students and see the their eyes when they discover or they when they understand something you know that aha moment that Eureka moment I love that that um that feeling of uh looking in their eyes and then um that that little um spark um and I I love conversing with uh the the young people the the the college aged people you know um they are um they they they are full of ideas a lot of them are very cocky and uh so you see yourself and your mistakes as well so you grow uh from teaching them you become um well you you I would say wiser um from teaching the uh 18 to 22 year olds and and older as well um and um um I like their curiosity uh and and creativity um they solve problems very differently than could you give us an example of something that you have gone through well in uh in Abu Dhabi with some of your students where you have seen this the creativity of your students or the problem solving skills of your students yeah so we would um well couple of things one is we would um participate in competitions there were many student level competitions uh for say sustainable energy or um well sustainable um sustainability um because this was a very hot topic in the UAE back in the uh uh 2010s yes and the UAE has made several uh 20-year plans 30 year you know plans and so on um and they were very big on uh they still are very big on sustainable energy sustainable living and so on um and uh in fact uh they have uh there's the um oh I'm forgetting let me let me just think um the UN um renewable energy um department uh or agency the UN in renewable energy agency is located in Abu Dhabi um so there were many competitions um both in Abu Dhabi and Dubai related to uh technologies and sustainable technologies and so on and so when you um join a student group you can you you're just blown away by the ideas that uh the students come up with um some of them are uh initially they they they sound stupid you know and crazy like it it couldn't work but that pushes your envelope you know it it to uh it makes you think outside the envelope to um try and solve and apply some of these crazy ideas to uh to solve the problem and then you up you figure out you you you figure it out how to apply some crazy ideas to solve these problems um and it works much better than the logical step-by-step process that engineers take so you leap ahead you know with the crazy ideas well this sounds very it it it sounds very similar to the why the bumblebee flies because it doesn't know he cannot yeah exactly exactly that's pretty cool yeah so these students don't know that uh it's not possible or it doesn't it doesn't work that way exactly they just go for it yeah so you have to um it makes you think as a uh uh as a teacher uh because you teach them very logically all the principles of engineering in a very step-by-step fashion and is that limiting their creativity you know uh are they becoming better problem solvers uh because now they're being taught to think within this framework it's like okay so you're building you're building the rails for the the choo-choo train of of problem solving and uh once you have established these rails yeah it flows yes but that's the only way yes they become quite rigid yes in that that's right so okay so so how did you balance that because there has to be a a better way of okay logic is good but at the same time do not neglect that creativity that uh uh anarchy yeah against logic yeah because sometimes that will bring you there as well the anarchy I like that word um the the the anarchist in you so you have to let that anarchist in you out to be creative um and so one way to bring out the anarch anarchists is to mix the team up so you have um uh let's say second year students mixed with final year students and and so on so the second year students are uh less limited by the less contaminated guys uh the the the ones who don't know better are coming in right all right and then the final year students they are uh they think within the rails they know how to apply engineering principles within the Rails um but then these uh younger ones will push outside the envelope and so now you apply engineering principles uh beyond your envelope okay um through the you know the the knowledge of the final year students um the seniors and and so you mix up the sophomores the the fresh even the freshmen i would uh allow even freshmen to join these teams because you want uh to us make them aspire to become great engineers you know when they join so you have the sophomores the juniors and the seniors working together in teams in these competitions and they produce better results you still keep in touch with some of your students um many of them do they many of them keep in touch with me they come to me for recommendation letters okay um some of them still want to come and have coffee with me this is great yeah even though I well now I live in um in your neighborhood um but yeah we meet up in Dubai sometimes in Abu Dhabi yeah so many of the students still get in touch with you and they would like to come visit you yes it's it's really um um a great feeling to see your students again and um and then also brings back memories you know uh because now you forgive them for all the bad grades some uh some of them earned uh in your class um but you know you you realize you know you you've been on that journey with them to where they are now and you were part of their life so that's that's very um just a wonderful feeling and then some of them uh have uh asked for professional help uh some for um um advice uh to startup companies um a couple of them asked me to join their uh company uh which is uh a satellite uh technology company right what's the name of this company again oh there's this company in based in Singapore called Galamad very nice Gallimad Aerospace I think and you're advisor to this company yes I'm an advisor very good what is the company about well they provide services to small satellites uh or small satellite could you explain to me what you mean by small satellites I unfortunately do not know anything about the world of satellites I don't know what a big satellite is medium small micro nano I understand it might have to do with the size of it but uh I also don't know how you get into satellite business.

SPEAKER_00 43:49

Would you one day just open a conference job making satellites?

SPEAKER_01 43:52

Well um you can the best way to get started uh in satellites and you can do this at the high school level Level as well is to get into small satellites. Um, and I'll I'll come to the definition in a bit. Most of the satellites that we know or think about tend to be the size of uh an SUV, and then a few of them, the military ones, might be the size of a bus, um, but the majority of them are uh the size of uh let's say an SUV, you know, a suburban um or a and and that is considered a small satellite? No, those are the regular satellites, the regular macro satellites, um and even the weather satellites and so on. And then we have what's called uh micro and nano satellites. Both of those we can classify as small satellites, and uh a nanosatellite would be the size of um uh well a foot, you know, a foot long. Yes, an Xbox. Yeah, and there's a class called uh CubeSats, and those are uh 10 centimeter cubed, and then multiples of the 10. So you can have 20 by 10, 30 by 10 by 10, and so on. Um so those are called, those are all within the nanosatellite classification. Um and in fact, there are some companies such as Planet Labs and um that are within the nanosatellite uh range. And I think even um Starlink satellites are also within the micro to nano satellite range. Small, so very small, and so they send out swarms of them, right? So you send out how do you do dozens or so you put uh uh so since these are small, they're packed in tight uh into these launch satellite um launch um uh uh rockets, and um you choose the rockets based on the uh altitude and the the orbit level. So let's say a low Earth orbit, which is about 400 kilometers above the surface of the Earth.

SPEAKER_00 46:08

What's what's the lifespan of one of these small satellites?

SPEAKER_01 46:12

So if you are at 400 kilometers, right, then the lifespan is about a year that little yes.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Oh, so they they they fall out of our orbit? Exactly. Do they is that far enough for them to ignite on re-entry? Yes, they burn up. So they they completely burn up. Oh so those are some of those random shooting starts that we see at night. Yes, if you're wishing on a star, you might be wishing.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

You'll be wishing on a satellite. On a nanosatellite. Yeah. What's the average cost of one of these things? Um, well, the launch to uh to take it from desktop to launch can cost about a hundred thousand dollars.

SPEAKER_00 46:52

No, I thought it was gonna be more.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Okay. Yeah. Uh, and then it depends on the payload, on on the components and so on, which is uh cheap enough for some high schools and colleges to participate. And that's where it was designed to be for students. And uh so student students could build, design and build and launch their own little nanosatellite. Um, but people found uh other uses for it, like Starlink and um for Earth observation and so on.

SPEAKER_00 47:26

So so you're advising uh you're on the board of advisory for this uh small satellite company in Singapore. Uh you have been uh professor in the NYU in Abu Dhabi, PhD from uh the University of Texas at Arlington. That's right. Lived in USA, lived in India, lived in the UAE, lived in Brazil, came back to the UAE.

unknown 47:52

Mr.

SPEAKER_00 47:53

Philip, I don't find your life boring at all. Well, I haven't climbed Mount Everest yet. Nobody does, except for the one few random people that that like to do that. So it's a very subdued kind of life.

SPEAKER_01 48:11

Your life needs excitement, a bit more excitement. So you get a motorcycle. My wife wouldn't like that. I did have one in college. You want excitement?

SPEAKER_00 48:20

I do like your boy to maybe I'm kind of envious of your motorcycles. Maybe you go against your wife. That would make very exciting conversations at home. Maybe not that kind of excitement at home. So Philip, and and and now, what what is what is your uh your outlook for today, tomorrow, what's to come? I know you've been uh uh writing papers.

SPEAKER_01 48:49

Yeah, so I'm totally gripped by the idea of converting waste into energy. And uh we have a lot of waste, kinds of waste, um, in in our lives. And I believe that uh in nature there's no such thing as waste. Every kind of thing that is uh discarded by one organism is used by others, and uh so we can uh learn to live like that, we can um live um as stewards of nature and in communion with nature, and we can convert all of our wastes into energy and raw materials, okay, and it uses the same kind of technologies that they use in uh engines, jet engines, and so on.

SPEAKER_00 49:40

But when we're talking about waste, uh would you be talking about, for example, in the farming industry, yeah, that uh you have straw. Yeah, the straw is considered a waste material from the farming industry. Yeah, but then this straw gets fed into biomass uh furnaces. Exactly. And the biomass furnaces burn the straw and uh extract electricity out of it uh through you know the process of uh burning. Um and at the same time from the burning they create this uh sooth. The sooth has very rich in chemical components and in nutrients that uh enrich the soil and help the farmers for in the next harvest and whatnot. Exactly. So is this something along the lines of what you're talking about? So that's one way. I I know it's a very simplistic way of looking at it.

SPEAKER_01 50:28

So that that is uh simplistic and uh the traditional way, and uh none of these technol technologies that I'm talking about is brand new, it's quite old, it's established. Um so rather than combusting or burning the uh biomass, um, we can gasify it. And that is we heat it up with um a partial burn, um, and then you heat up the biomass to produce what's called synthesis gas or syngas, and then you can take the syngas and use that as fuel. Now the advantage of that is it doesn't produce smoke, which is wasted and which can produce pollution. Um so you take the syngas and you can uh run an engine on it off of it, uh which was done during World War II when there uh was a shortage of liquid fuel. Okay. Um, so many buses and even cars were adapted to run on wood pellets and waste, wood biomass using this gasification. Now you can add an extra step, which is called a Fischer Tropsch process, and again, that's a hundred years old, and a similar process is used on the uh space um um the space labs. Uh I'm sorry, the uh what do they call it? Space station? Space station. So the the the CO2 produced by the astronauts need to be extracted extracted. So a very similar process to that. Um I think that's called the Sandorens process. So the fissotrops can take the syngas, and then through multiple stages, you can produce uh um petrol, gasoline, uh diesel, jet fuel, you can produce even uh paraffins and even plastics. So you can return all of that um back into a usable fuel. This is amazing. And this is an old technology, it's been it's been around. Um and uh in fact, when they are uh when they use uh biofuels, when they create biofuels, they are using a very similar process, which is gasification plus uh fissure trounge. Um, and now we can also enhance the gasification process with plasma technologies and so on, so that we can consume all of our plastic wastes, all of our paper, fabrics, um tires, the petroleum waste, the um uh lubricant lubricants from cars and so on, any kind of um hydrocarbon waste, which tends to have nutrients uh well um other uh chemicals and elements in there that we can extract and return it back to the industry.

SPEAKER_00 53:31

You know, Philip, listening to you uh speak about your expertise, it's it's so pleasant because whenever you hear somebody that somebody talk about their craft where they have achieved mastery, it's intoxicating. It's it's like listening to I don't know, uh a symphony. It is a beautiful thing to listen to masters of their craft speak about their craft, and to me, you are one of those masters, so much so that I would love to continue our conversation maybe tonight over an ice cigar. Certainly. I I would love to hear you keep going.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

That that was beautiful, Chris. Um love that. I mean, as engineers, we don't talk like that.

SPEAKER_00 54:19

So when it's it's so wonderful to hear others say well, I am the guy that doesn't really is not really on the rails, you know. So that's right. So listen, Philip, thank you very much for coming today. It was really beautiful, and uh, thank you for taking the time to sit with me and and try in this new experience. I hope you had a good time with this.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

This was a lot of fun, and let me just finish that guys. Uh, this is why I love to tell students about this, and I love teaching, and I want to get students to work together, and we can actually save the environment, save the planet, make the world a better place. Um, and so that's the future for the the young people.

SPEAKER_02 54:56

All right.

SPEAKER_01 54:57

Um, and this was a great experience. Thank you so much, Chris, for inviting me and um bringing me here to your studio and uh having me in this talk.

SPEAKER_00 55:06

We'll see. You again, Philip, for sure. We'll definitely have you over again. Thank you very much. All right, thanks.