From Barely Surviving to Fully Alive

⚠️ Trigger Warning:
This episode contains discussions of suicide, suicidal ideation, mental health struggles, religious trauma, and experiences related to gender identity and marginalization. Listener discretion is advised. If these topics feel activating for you, please take care while listening or choose to come back when you feel supported.

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In this powerful and deeply human conversation, we explore identity, nervous system regulation, trauma, and what it really means to feel safe in your own body.

Our guest shares their lived experience navigating gender identity, late autism diagnosis, and growing up in a conservative religious environment that made authenticity feel dangerous. From masking and misdiagnosis to reclaiming joy and connection, this episode is both eye-opening and deeply validating.

We unpack:

☑️What it really means to be neurodivergent

☑️The truth about late autism diagnosis

☑️How trauma lives in your nervous system

☑️Why you can “do the work”… and still fall into old patterns

☑️Identity, gender, and what “assigned at birth” actually means

☑️The connection between people-pleasing, codependency, and survival

☑️What happens when you're told you’ll never make it, and prove them wrong

This conversation is honest, layered, and not sugarcoated.

If you’ve ever felt “different,” overwhelmed, or like you had to hide parts of yourself to survive, this episode is for you.
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Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:47

To help people heal from toxic family, toxic friendships, and toxic romantic partners. I mean, tooth seller and your friend loves you enough to be honest with you, even when it's things a little. This is a place where the conversation people come, the conversation that people want to avoid, we can have them here. We talk about relationships, accountability, self-habitat, healing, boundaries, and all the messy stuff that folks don't want to talk about. And just remember, um you can always ask a story, but if you're not ready to do the work, don't ask me to, because I'm not here to close on your excuses. I am here to help you grow. So today we have a very special guest. We have Gazette Aya, and they can be described as an autistic AFAMB, AFAB, and I'll have them explained up to me. Like I said, it's a lot here, and I'm not sure what all of this means. So I'm gonna give them an opportunity to explain. I'm gonna welcome them and give them an opportunity to explain all of that to us so we can have a very good understanding. So welcome, Gazette. How are you doing today?

SPEAKER_00 2:16

Oh, I love that. It's I'm so well and I'm so grateful to be here with you. And I don't like what are we, right? Like those descriptions, it's like, what it, what, how much do you want to know? How much do you not want to know? What is like am I a separate human? Right. We talked at the beginning about how actually the promo pronouns that feel the most correct for me are we and our because I feel like we are here apparently on this earth, but like I'm in this body and you're in that one, and like what does that mean?

SPEAKER_02 2:53

I don't know, but and the truth is if we all actually sit down and think about what we all consist of, our knowledge, our years, all of our descriptions would be like that. I mean, we're so complex.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

Yeah, yeah. I feel like uh I was thinking the other day I was going to a um my kid's soccer game, and there's so much like chit chat that happens with like these other parents, right? And I do not have chit chat skills. That is one of my like strongest autistic traits is I'm gonna just like, you know, I loved your intro too. Like, uh don't ask me shit because like if you ask me anything, I'm gonna start talking about all of recorded history and what all the um, you know, how the patriarchy of white supremacy has affected you know, the fact that you are not sure if you're gonna give your kid peanut butter and jelly tonight. Like, I would that's what I will be talking about, right? Like, I'm a mess. But um, yeah, A-F A B, um, most people would say AFAB. Um and it means assigned female at birth.

SPEAKER_01 4:06

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 4:07

So that thing that happens when babies are born, where doctors do what I have I love, some people refer to it as like gender hieroglyphics. They like look at the gemitalia and they're like, let's call this one a boy, right? Let's call this one a girl. And like it really is super random um because we all have the same like basic stuff going on in that area, and it's just like slightly configured different ways, right? Um, and has different functions, and how it is configured may not even represent what's going on inside or genetically, and so doctors are literally just guessing. Um, and so in the um trans community, we often uh offer that to say, like, this is what I was assigned at birth, because um it it helps people to understand information about how I was raised. So I was raised and socialized as a girl. Um, and that gives a little bit of background on me, what I've been through. It also gives a little background on some of my like physical um experiences, you know, where my hormones go, like where what I've dealt with in terms of experiences I've had in this body? Um, so yeah, uh it can be assigned female at birth, it can be assigned male at birth, it can be um intersex is another one. So AFAB, AMAB, and uh intersex are all different things that happen.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

Now that you've explained that, does that actually change the do people change the way that they relate to you once they understand that? Or uh is the um you know sure.

SPEAKER_00 5:59

Yeah, yeah. I'm I think definitely. I don't think that anyone that I've ever experienced has wondered what I was assigned at birth. I think I am most often gendered as a woman and people like experience me as a woman most of the time. Um but maybe if there was someone who didn't see me or hear me and they were curious, that would give them more information. I don't know. Yeah, it's just another one of those, like, tell me about who you are. Like it's one of those characteristics that has been associated with me. Um, so that's the one that I um heard you not recognizing. Were there others that you didn't recognize? Maybe SSP? Yes, that one. SSP is a uh listening modality. It stands for the Safe and Sound Protocol.

SPEAKER_01 6:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 6:56

And it is something that I use in my work to support people with nervous system regulation. And it's really cool. It actually works with your vagus nerve and increases f flexibility, decreases auditory sensitivity, increases social engagement. It's a bottom-up approach, so it doesn't involve like cognitive or thinking. You don't like try to do it, it works directly with your vagus nerve, which can be really nice for folks who have had a lot of um trauma or who are neurodiverse and might have like a lot going on with their actual nervous system that doesn't line up with their actual thinking and values. So it could be like, I really value, you know, feeling safe and empowered and confident, but then I get out there with someone that my body perceives as threatening, and all of a sudden I'm back to my, you know, people pleasing, I'm back to my codependency, I'm back to my um maybe I'm lying to keep myself safe, I'm backing away from social experiences to keep myself safe. Um, so a lot of us who have been in therapy for like decades and know everything and have like read every book, but then we get out into the world and our nervous system's like, never mind, and freaks out. Um, it's a really nice tool because it can support the body into reconnecting with safety um when we've been through a lot of th trauma or have neurodiversity that makes our wiring more sensitive.

SPEAKER_02 8:27

Right. It's interesting because when you started saying that, even without all the therapies and things, well, we've when you do all the work that you do, you know yourself, you're confident and whatever. But when you get back into those family dynamics, yeah, you always it's like you always fall back into the same place that you were. If you were the kid that was bullied in the family, even though you're bigger than everybody now, you know, you still get treated that way. That is so crazy. I never even related it to our nervous system being familiar with that.

SPEAKER_00 8:59

Yeah, the nervous system works on predictive processing, right? So it takes the old data and then it finds where it matches the current situation and it tells you this is safe or this is dangerous.

SPEAKER_02 9:12

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, learning things already. But you know, looking over your introduction and is there anything else you'd like to add that I did not go into? You clear those up, but tell us a little bit about yourself, other than those things that you shared.

SPEAKER_00 9:27

Yeah, you know, I think one of the things that I have in common with a lot of other people is for most of my life I felt like being alive was too hard and not worth it enough. Um, and um, one of the things that I really care about communicating um when I have a chance to, um, is that I think there's no too far gone in life. Um, I think we all are capable of creating a life that's really worth living for us. Um that I was one of those cases where I was told by um medical providers, psychiatrists, and psychologists that um I was either gonna die by suicide or end up institutionalized long term. And that's not the case. I'm now living a beautiful life, um, doing work that's really meaningful and aligned for me and feeling like I genuinely um feel good about being here and um finding joy and connection. Um, and so I I do think that that's possible for anyone.

SPEAKER_02 10:36

Okay. So you mentioned well, one I want to know when were you actually diagnosed with um autism? When were you diagnosed as autistic?

SPEAKER_00 10:47

Yeah, I was only diagnosed with autism like six weeks ago. Oh wow formally.

SPEAKER_02 10:53

Okay, but is it something that you kind of already suspected or knew? When did you start expect when did you start suspecting it?

SPEAKER_00 11:02

You know, I would I would have been able to tell you as soon as I started talking that I was different, that something was like way harder for me than everybody else. Um, but I didn't have language for it. So I've been, you know, trying to explain that for my whole life, pretty much. That like felt like everybody was speaking a different language. I felt like I must be from a different planet. Um, you know, that like maybe I was adopted, maybe, you know, I I was trying to figure it out for my whole life. Um, I was described as like really shy and really sensitive when I was super young. And then as I got into uh puberty and early like young adulthood, um I was given every you know mental um like health type diagnosis. So they called me everything from borderline to bipolar, um, rapid cycling, bipolar, uh anxiety, depression, all of those. Um, I was uh also um like in my 30s, uh diagnosed with traumatic brain injury, post-concussive um syndrome, because I did have three head injuries in my first three years. So two when I was 15 months old and one when I was three. Um and so those affect, you know, sensory sensitivities and um emotional regulation, having had a brain injury. Um, but it didn't quite answer all of the social difficulties that I was having, um, communication challenges, just like never understanding humor, taking everything so literally, um, some of my really intense uh rejection sensitivity and justice sensitivity that um previously were maybe called me just being too much or too sensitive or um codependent. Uh and you know, all of it really makes a ton of sense through the lens of autism. Right, right, right. So I'm super grateful that um I I went to school for speech pathology and I was given a grant to study autism um through the Department of Education, and right away I was like, oh, these are my people, right? And over the years of working primarily with neurocomplex folks, I have been like, yep, this is me. And then um, because so many of my clients were interested in evaluation and sort of understanding what that experience would be like, I decided to go through formal evaluation and diagnosis myself.

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Okay, all right. And uh, do you work you work as a coach now, also, correct?

SPEAKER_00 13:57

Coach slash speech pathologist, it's a little bit of an overlap.

SPEAKER_02 14:01

Yeah, or um, most of your clients I would think that they're aligned with you. Do you um work with a lot of neurodivergent clients and things? Okay, yeah, cool.

SPEAKER_00 14:12

Yeah, anywhere from somebody who feels like they're just really sensitive to someone who might connect with the diagnosis.

SPEAKER_02 14:20

Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned earlier um that you the doctors and therapists and things said that you would either die by suicide or um what was the other thing you said? End up institutionalized. End up institutionalized. So, and I know that um you and I have talked previously, so I do know that there were um suicide attempts. Can you tell us a little bit about those? Like how old were you when you experienced this?

SPEAKER_00 14:51

Yeah, so I I really was questioning life from um young, so 10 or 11, uh, really feeling like this was too hard and something was really wrong with me, um, from kind of always, but especially once um early puberty started. Um it's not uncommon for um trans and gender non-conforming people to have a really hard time in puberty. Um, but sort of like all that gender stuff was coming online. My body was changing, which was super uncomfortable for me. Um, I started menstruating, that was like really hard for me. Um and I started noticing that I was attracted to all kinds of people and not just the people that I was supposed to be.

SPEAKER_01 15:48

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:49

Um and I was raised in a super duper um conservative evangelical Christian household. And so um, and community I went to a Baptist um school as well. Um, and so it was like really not okay to be queer in any way. They weren't talking about gender or trans people at all in the 80s um in that community. So I didn't even know I didn't have that language to know that it was about gender as well. Um but you know, gay people or homosexuals is what they would have said. Um were going straight to hell. And um, that was just heartbreaking for me because one of my lifelines growing up was actually the connection I felt with a higher power. And at that time I would have called that God or Jesus. Um, and I felt really sincere. Um, I really aligned with the teachings of Jesus in terms of how to care for the others, right? The people who are um treated poorly, the poor, the widows, the orphans, um, you know, the tax collectors and the prostitutes. Like those, I was like, yes, Jesus, you know, I love that. And so it was really painful for me to imagine that I had something about me that was like, you know, inherently wicked and to be punished. And so I did my best to hide it. But as we know, when people are hiding the truth of who they are, it is um, you know, 47% of trans youth um attempt suicide. And so it just got harder and harder the older I got, the more I was lying. You know, I was doing a lot of masking too in terms of my neurodivergence. Um, so my whole life was just a facade, and that will break you down faster than anything else. Um, so by the time I was in college, I finally went to see a therapist. I was so scared that my parents were gonna find out that I was seeing a therapist that I made the therapist like promise to not like make any record of seeing me. And um, she ended up giving me an antidepressant, which I was um 21 at the time. And now we know that antidepressants can increase suicidality in young people. At that point, it was late 90s, they didn't have that research yet. Um, and so my suicidality went like through the roof as soon as I started taking that. Um, and they didn't know, right? So she just thought she was helping me. Um but I had not been actively suicidal. I had been more in the camp of suicidal ideation before I started taking the antidepressants. But once I started taking the antidepressants, I was like actively planning. Um, and when I was 22, um I tried coming out to a family member, and um the conversation did not go well, and I felt like I didn't know any like happy, queer people who were living meaningful lives, you know. So I didn't think it would be possible to like uh, you know, move from my family and live my own life. I thought I just was gonna like ruin their life and they were gonna think I was terrible. So I just felt like there weren't any options. Um, and I did attempt suicide at that point. Um friends ended up finding me like 11 hours later. It was an overdose, and um they it was too late for them to pump my stomach, and I had been unconscious, and so the doctors were kind of like, we're not really sure why you regained consciousness. And I had a really wild and beautiful near-death experience. Um, and I yeah, I feel like it wasn't it wasn't my uh choice of to come back. I would have been delighted to stay where I was. Um, but I I did regain consciousness and um and that was one of the hardest things that has ever happened to me. I think worse than anything else was like making peace with moving on from this life and then being like yanked back in. I was so devastated. Um but like I said, I have I have since then um slowly but surely created a life that does feel worth living. So it's been a wild road.

SPEAKER_02 20:45

Wow. What made it so hard? I mean what made it so I guess the same things, the reason that you didn't want to be here is what made it hard to come back to it because you were coming back to the same well it was worse than before the overdose because before the overdose I felt like I had an option to reduce my suffering.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

I could die. But after I woke back up, I was like, Well, I'm not doing that again. I just felt like it would be too painful to get all ready again and like think I was free and then have to come back. Like I just I I could I would not have been able to tolerate a second failed attempt. And so it felt like um of like an imprisonment, no option to to get free. You know, I felt like it was a it was like a death sentence, but it was in a different way. Yeah death felt better than life. Wow. So yeah.

SPEAKER_02 21:51

How long did you feel like that? How well how long did it take you to get over that feeling? Because I can imagine that's like very difficult.

SPEAKER_00 21:59

It was. Just so yeah, so crushing. Um, I felt like that until I remember the first day that I didn't feel suicidal, and it was when I was um 35. So 22 to 35. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:16

That's 13 years. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Wow. That's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

It was awful.

SPEAKER_02 22:26

Yeah. And you mentioned your family, so that wasn't a support system for you to get through that. What about the friends that found you? Were you guys of similar belief? Were they helpful in the process of yeah?

SPEAKER_00 22:43

You know, they did their best. They were young people like me going through it, right? We were all actually in New Orleans teaching through an AmeriCorps program. So everyone was struggling. Everybody was, you know, really at capacity and overwhelmed. And um they did their best, but they didn't have much to offer, which I totally understand. And after, you know, getting me to the hospital, um, I was put on medication before I even gained consciousness. So there was already antipsychotics and lithium and antidepressants in my system when I woke up. And um I was not myself. And that is one of the most painful pieces of it for me is that for two and a half years following that attempt, I was um, I don't remember it, but a family member came and like picked me up and brought me home. And two and a half years of my life, I have like three memories from because I was so highly medicated, and I lost a lot of friendships, and I feel really sad because I don't know what happened, right? I may have been just an awful person to people that I loved. Um, and I'll never know.

SPEAKER_02 24:09

Yeah, there's so there's no way you weren't able to connect with any of those people to ask, you know, what was it?

SPEAKER_00 24:15

Yeah, there were several people that I reached out to and just said, like, I'm off of the medicine now. I don't know what happened. Like, please tell me. But they were like, I'm not in communication with you anymore, kind of like cut me off, right? And I respect that. I I really, as in your work, you know, there are times when we do need to cut people off. And I respect anybody who needed to cut me off, and I will always be sorry for anything that I said or did. Right. Um, and it does it, it's it's hard to know that there's two and a half years of my life that I don't know what happened.

SPEAKER_02 24:50

Yeah. And that's brave to to be able to even, even with you not knowing, to be able to accept that you said I may have been an awful person. You know, sometimes people get it mixed up with the um with the no contact and things. I am not angry myself with anyone that has cut me off. Even if I don't understand, I always hope that they have found some kind of peace. Because I know even for me, I can be a lot for me. Especially if I'm going through something, it's like, oh my gosh, I'm I'm sick of me. I can only imagine that you're sick of me. And I need a break too. Yeah, I you need a I need a break from me, but I can't get a break from me. So take your break. Please, please.

SPEAKER_00 25:40

Yeah, yeah. I really respect people's capacity. You know, that's where the nervous system information has been so helpful for me because it just reminds me like if you are not feeling safe, yeah, then you are not making decisions. And so anything that you do or say when you're not feeling safe, that's not you.

SPEAKER_01 26:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 26:03

Um, it's just your nervous system trying to keep you alive. And so people need to cut me off. You know, I really have come to grips with the fact that my family of origin, you know, that connection with Christianity was really life-giving for them. It helped them to feel like it was worth living. And so for me to come onto this planet into their lives and be like, you know, if you love me, you would give up this thing that's making it possible for you to be on this planet. Like, how dare I, you know? Right. Like, just because genetics happened, right? Um, doesn't mean they need to let go of this thing. And that's a controversial perspective, you know, especially in the queer community. But I really feel like everybody can do only what they can do. And I'm not here to say I know how anybody else should live their life.

SPEAKER_01 26:54

Right.

SPEAKER_00 26:55

I just know that so far, uh, to keep myself on the planet, this is how I've been able to do it. And I respect any anything that anybody else has had to do.

SPEAKER_02 27:08

You know, but as you say that, I'm gonna play devil's advocate a little bit here. As you say that it's always interesting that uh we would have to take that stance and understand their position in life. Couldn't it be and I don't want I shouldn't use the word could, but all over it. All over the place, all over ourselves. At the same time, it's like, wouldn't it be nice if you took the same, if they took the same perspective about your life or my life? You know, I have a daughter, and not to make this about the LGBTQ, uh IE plus community. I have a daughter that's a part of that community. And we both have to come to a different understanding on both sides, you know, feels kind of like I don't understand why you don't understand certain things. And I'm like, well, you have to also understand that wrong or right, I had a different vision for your life also. So as much as you have to grieve a process, I have to grieve a process too. So respect the way I have to walk through it, I'll respect the way you walk through it, and let's come to this together. And she's one of my best friends, you know. So um, but that's and that's not even about life choice, that's a that's a relational thing, period. You're not gonna agree with everybody that you're in relationship with, whether it's friends, family, or romantic partners. And so with that being said, how much of uh their beliefs and their ideology contributed to your desire to no longer be here?

SPEAKER_00 28:58

Oh gosh, wow, I mean 100%. Yeah, yeah, 100%.

SPEAKER_02 29:06

Um but was it the way that they communicated the things with you?

SPEAKER_00 29:11

Or it was it just well, you know, when you're a child, you just believe that your parents and your adults are telling you the truth. Right, right. So if they say God hates queer people, you don't know how to question that.

SPEAKER_02 29:31

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:32

Because if they're saying it, you know, and then they're like, and this Bible says it, and every teacher you have, you know, I was in a unique circumstance because I was so in this tiny, tiny community where my school and my church and my home were the only places that I interacted with.

unknown 29:51

Right.

SPEAKER_01 29:51

Right.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

We did theater, but it was Christian youth theater, so it was everything. So I had never met a non-believer until I was in my 20s. So I didn't even know that anything existed outside. I didn't listen to secular music, I didn't read secular books, um, I didn't see any secular media, right? So I just thought that was true, and I didn't know how to question it. And that's where I think, you know, you sort of with this devil's advocate piece at the beginning of this line of thinking, you thought, shouldn't they, you know, respect you? And I think respect is a really tricky word to use when we're talking about how we treat other people. I really prefer to use the word capacity because respect indicates that you're in your frontal lobe. If I have the capacity to engage with something that's so higher order, like respect, it means I have the ability to take the perspective of someone else. I have the ability to hold two opposing truths. These are very high-order uh cognitive capabilities. And when I'm scared and I'm in my lower brain, I do not have access to respect. So I am never gonna ask anybody to respect me as a blanket statement because I if I'm asking them to do something out of their capacity, that in my opinion is cruel. That's a form of violence, right? So if I'm with a little kid who is so scared, and I tell them you need to, you know, go onto a stage and sing a song. And I tell them you should be able to do it, don't be afraid. That's cruel, right? Because I can see they don't have the capacity, they're in their lower brain, they're gonna open their mouth, nothing's gonna come out of their mouth, right? Or they're gonna have some sort of long-term trauma if I drag them up onto that stage, right? And I really believe that we need to think about that with adults too, our partners, our um parents, our um friends, you know, to always be checking in with where are you at capacity-wise. You know, even you and I, when we first met, we talked about where were you gonna be at capacity-wise about talking about these subjects. And I didn't say to you, well, if you're not gonna talk about it and you know, da-da-da, then I'm not gonna be on your podcast because you should have the guts to talk about anything that's right, you know. I said, Okay, well, you might not have the capacity, and I really care about acknowledging my own and the capacity of others. There's days when someone may, you know, use a different pronoun for me and I just let it slide because I don't have the capacity to have an interaction. And there's some days when, you know, I might just interact with my family and have them say something that really doesn't feel, you know, respectful or affirming or whatever, and I just let it slide because I don't have the capacity to have uh a difficult conversation, right? And I I really care about acknowledging that if you can't respect me, then it means you're very scared. You know, and we can look at this about how people treat queer people, about how people um interact with racism, um, ableism, all sexism, all the things. If you are engaging in anything that could be perceived anywhere from disrespectful to violent, you are in your lower brain. Just end of discussion.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

Wow. Yeah, because I wouldn't have you mentioned racism. I don't think I would have looked at it that way. Um, I I I think I understand it because there's some people that are just raised and thinking certain things that I'm not getting ready to try to force you to love all black people all of a sudden because or you know, so I get it conceptually. I guess I just want how do you open, how do you personally have these conversations with people and keep yourself in such a loving place because it sounds like such a it's a loving place, it sounds like such a beautiful place. I can't say I'm there all the time.

SPEAKER_00 34:33

So well, you know, I think what's really um important is to acknowledge that there is a lot of grief to be had around the fact that we happen to be born into bodies that were wired to fight and defend and um you know attack and be violent, and that we were born into a planet that is um organized according to power and domination, right? This this painful, that's heartbreaking, yeah. But you know that that you know that heartbreak, that grief around, you know, gosh, what is this world and what is the this system, and why do we have these nervous systems that do like this, and why do we have these systems of oppression and domination, you know? That is work that I do every day, right? Right, to say that breaks my heart, and I don't see anybody who is worth um oppressing. I just have never met a person that I wanted to push down, and it is confusing and it's painful, and it is you know, there's anger about the fact that that's the kind of world that we live in. So I think you know, the amount of time that I spend really acknowledging and validating and you know, listening to my grief, that extends my capacity to grieve with the people who are on the other side of that, you know, and that brings in again that use of the pronoun we and us and ours, because when we oppress each other, we all are at that at the bottom of the pit suffering, right? Whether we're the one who's doing it or that we're the one experiencing it, and I know that to be true because I oppressed myself for most of my life, and that felt way worse than being oppressed.

SPEAKER_02 36:58

Oh, I'm sure. I'm sure. I just I guess again, I can't help but feel the love. You're such a genuine person. And I know me personally, desire I desire to stay in that place. But when the hurts keep coming, the offenses keep coming, you know, I'm now learning how to um guard myself, not cut everybody off, but limit access, make sure that I'm aligned with certain people, not share so much. I am a recovering oversharer. I will tell everybody everything. And then realizing that in doing that, everybody doesn't share the same beliefs that you do. And so they people do tend to, they can weaponize the information that you've given them. So how do you stay in that place? I know you talked about um going through your own grief process before, but what else do you do to stay in that place?

SPEAKER_00 38:05

You know, I spending a lot of time validating myself really helps. Spending my whole work day with people who are also in the thick of it, right? And seeing and validating their pain and their confusion. I think that helps too because I never feel alone.

SPEAKER_01 38:32

Right.

SPEAKER_00 38:32

Um, and then I think for me, you know, sort of the overlap of um understanding how the nervous system works took all the blame uh and shame out of it for me. Because if I know that when someone's scared, they don't have access to respect or compassion or thoughtfulness or um, you know, choice, even they're not making a decision, they are literally an alligator, and that is, you know, that's not woo-woo. That's um what's called the amygdala hijack.

SPEAKER_01 39:12

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 39:12

Um, and it's just the same mechanism that when you put your hand on a hot stove, you just pull it off. Right. Right. So when I'm scared, I might say to someone, you know, you're going to hell. If I'm scared, I might say to someone, you know, um, I might hurt somebody physically, right? Um, because I'm going straight to motor, um, the motor part of my brain. I'm not going to the frontal lobe where I'm going to make decisions. So understanding that really just like changed everything for me. You know, when I'm interacting with someone who's upset at me, I just am like, hello, alligator. I just picture a little alligator, you know, and I would never go into an alligator enclosure and say, listen, you are not being respectful to me. And I'm gonna tie this steak to my hand and I'm gonna put it into your mouth, and you should not bite. Right. If you respect me and if you're a good person, then you will not bite me. Like that would be so just stupid, right? Right. So I just watch and I see am I an alligator or are you an alligator? If either of us are alligators, I am not going to keep talking. I am not gonna ask anybody to do anything. If I'm an alligator, I'm gonna take me into the kitchen, I'm gonna get myself an ice pack, I'm gonna pat myself until I am a human again. If I see someone else who's an alligator, I am going to toss some snacks and ice pack around. I'm going to lower my voice and I'm going to back away slowly. I am not going to talk with an alligator, right? So that's a huge change that just allows me. I'm not doing any mental gymnastics. I'm not going, oh, they were hurt at one point in their life, and that's why they're hurting me, right? I'm just going, oh, they're in their lower brain, so they're not making a decision. That way, I don't have to take anything personally. If an alligator bit me and I had a steak wrapped in my hand, you know, and my hand was in their mouth, I would not be like, that was a really awful alligator. I'd be like friend, you know, who did something that made sense. So that removed a lot of the pain around it for me. Um, but then also, you know, I don't take it so far like some maybe spiritual communities might be. I don't ever like hang out with alligators.

SPEAKER_01 41:51

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Right. So just because I understand you're an alligator doesn't mean that I'm going to hang out with you. So if you've established to me that you're an alligator, you know, more than five times out of ten, more than two times out of ten, then we're probably not hanging out anymore. Right. Right. And if we are hanging out, there is a big fence between us, and I am just like keeping my voice low, and I'm not making eye contact, and you know, I'm not really there. Right. So that's a big difference too, because then I'm not getting myself into like over and over and over. That's what I think some of these, like more, you know, some spiritual groups who are like, oh, well, they're hurt, and you know, just like forgive them. It's like, yeah, and don't have to hang out with them, you know. Like, I'm not a person who's ever gonna tell someone like, oh, you have to stay in contact with your parents because they're your blood family. No, no, no, everybody, you know, is separate humans. If a relationship is, like I said, if they're just constantly showing up as an alligator, or like you mentioned, if every time you hang out with them you become an alligator, that's information too, right? And you should have the grace to remove yourself from that relationship, exactly.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Right, and and do the work to find out why you're biting people's hands off, yes, yes, what's going on here?

SPEAKER_00 43:26

Yes, absolutely, so that really helps. I mean, I do explore like you know, Buddhist and Hindu and you know, mystic traditions and interested in non duality, but in real time, when you're scared or upset, the easiest thing for me is oh, I'm an alligator or they're an alligator. Let me go take care.

SPEAKER_02 43:53

Yeah, well, you just simplify because I could I feel myself going down that journey, but I'll still go through the well, they were hurt this way. They they were hurt. And then they did this, and like you said, the mental gymnastics. It's like who has time to go through all of that? I don't. And the truth is, I don't really know because I wasn't there anyway. So I'm only speculating or taking the information that they gave me. So I know we have some time restraints here. Um, so if there was anything for you to share with someone, um, a friend, family member, or anything dealing with a person, I don't even know where to start because there's so many things, unique things about you. Um, and like I said, I don't want to make it about one thing and leave out all the other. But I think you just said a lot with dealing with people and how to extend love to all mankind.

SPEAKER_00 44:48

Yeah, and it's nice because it's not even love, yeah, right? It's just like honest. Yeah, like we have nervous systems, they are older than us, they're millions of years old, and they affect our behavior. They're called the autonomic nervous system because it's automatic, it's happening without our conscious control. If we could bring that understanding to our day-to-day lives, we would be far less likely to have as much violence as we do towards ourselves internally when we are beating up ourselves or towards others, right? To just be like, can we take care of the alligators? If we can do that, we're gonna really reduce that violence.

SPEAKER_02 45:32

Right. I'm glad you said even towards ourselves, because a lot of times we don't realize that we're judging ourselves and treating ourselves badly, and your own body is just responding to what's around them. So well, I thank you so much for joining me today. There's so many other things, so chances of me having you back later on down the line, it's they're they're high. I love to so thank you again for joining us. Um I had to I can go through and add the other the outro. So just everyone, where can they if someone wants to work with you?

SPEAKER_00 46:10

Um, go to my website, therootedcoop.com and you can book a free call. We can meet each other and see if um see if there's a match, and then also have a lot of free resources on my YouTube channel, which is also the rooted co-op.

SPEAKER_02 46:28

And I will make sure all of that are in the show notes so that they can find you. Well, thank you again, and I just hope you have a wonderful day and um all the things. Thanks for sharing. I know I've already learned some things, and so I'm gonna go and look at all the alligators. That's right. Are you an alligator? You know, thank you. All righty, and if those of you are listening and I can't find my notes, so I'll add it at the end. But you can reach out to Gazette and work and see if she wants to work if in whatever. I don't know. I'm gonna go because I can't think straight anymore. And just I hope you have a good one. And yes.

SPEAKER_01 47:15

Thank you for everything.