05: A Commando Learns To Take The Ego Out Of It

One of the scariest moments Tim Thomas shares happens far from a battlefield: sitting in a psychologist’s office, flooded with rage, he realises how close pain and isolation can push a person to the edge. That story sets the tone for a raw, practical conversation about veteran mental health, PTSD recovery, and what actually helps when talk alone isn’t getting through. 

We talk with Tim, an ex-Special Forces commando and now a veteran ambassador with Gallipoli Medical Research (GMR), about the contrast between who he was in the Army and who he’s becoming now. He takes us through the routines that stabilise his nervous system, why connection is the antidote to the loneliness pain creates, and the Afghanistan moment where a simple act of service (making great coffee) cuts through ego and changes the whole team dynamic. We also unpack the hard truth of transition to civilian life: losing your tribe, protecting your self-worth, and the ways alcohol can quietly become “medicine” when sleep and stress spiral. 

Tim gets specific on the science too, linking chronic stress, cortisol, hormones, low testosterone, fatigue, and why exhaustion can block healing even when you finally find the right support. He’s candid about the years it can take to find a clinician who truly helps, and why many programs fail veterans when they don’t earn trust or break isolation. We also explore why GMR felt different to him: research with heart, listening without judgement, and building tools that work in the deepest and darkest places. The conversation lands on sovereignty, boundaries, and breathwork for sleep as a skill that brings power back under your own skin. 

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Transcript

Welcome To Voices

Host Miriam Kent 0:03

Hi everyone, I'm Miriam Kent, CEO of Gallipoli Medical Research, and I'm delighted to welcome you to our new podcast, Voices. Tune in as we bring you raw conversations with leaders, survivors, researchers, and advocates across veteran health, medical research, clinical trials, and the broader community. From a Victoria Cross Medal recipient and a mother of two surviving stage four melanoma to Australia's first female three-star lieutenant general. Their voices will transform the way you think about service, leadership, and what it truly means to stand beside one another during life's hardest moments. We have entrusted the master conversationalist Sarah Maxwell to sit down and facilitate these important conversations. Sarah, over to you.

Conversationalist Sarah 0:54

There once was a boy from coastal South Australia who felt deeply connected to the indigenous community surrounding him. He didn't yet know how their ancient healing practices would live within him and eventually save his life. Tim Thomas is an ex-Special Forces commando with the Australian Army. He started out as a cattle station hand in the Northern Territories, moved on from there to win Australian titles in MMA fighting before trying out and being accepted into the elite special forces of the Army, serving in East Timor and Afghanistan. When he left the Army in 2010, things became oppressive for Tim, and drinking and PTSD ran rampant. His journey to healing has had many layers, one of those exposing him to Gallipoli medical research, where he is now their veteran's ambassador. Tim has written two books, led multiple charity walks raising many funds, guided many men to a better life through Mates for Mates, and now focuses his time on his newest creation, Breathwork in Bed, a program dedicated to improving sleep quality through science-backed breathwork techniques. Welcome, Tim, to Voices, GMR's new podcast project designed to capture the sentiment of incredible men and women like yourself doing good in the world. So welcome to the podcast.

Guest Tim Thomas 2:18

Thank you so much, Sarah. It's great to be here and thank you for that uh very warm and encouraging uh intro. I

Morning Rituals And Self Investment

Conversationalist Sarah 2:25

know that's your life. How amazing. And look, we're gonna dive into the crevices of your life. Like there's a lot of extraordinary things that have happened, but I always like to kind of ground us a little bit. You know, who is this like 51-year-old man sitting here in front of us today? So if you could take us through a typical day in the past week that you've experienced, so we can just ground ourselves in who you are today.

Guest Tim Thomas 2:49

Sure. Okay, so every day I treat my body like it's an investment portfolio. So if you had uh uh something that you invested $10 in and you got a thousand dollars back from, uh then you'd keep doing that, wouldn't you? And what I've what I've discovered about my own body is that when you invest in it, you're always gonna get a really big return. So I've created a morning routine that I do every day that is in tune with this with the uh sunrise and sunset. So this time of year we're in May, so the sun's getting up a bit later, so I get to sleep in a little bit. Um, but I'll get up pre-sunrise, I'll do my breath work uh as I get out of bed. Um, I'll do some mirror work, simply saying things to the mirror, and and that can seem really strange, and it certainly did to me, but I couldn't ignore just how powerful it makes you feel looking at yourself in the mirror and saying these powerful affirmations, right? Um, and then I would um get up. My dogs are normally knocking at the door to for some attention, I'll give them all a massage, uh, and then I'll get up on the roof and do my sunrise breath work. Uh what I've discovered is looking at the sunrise, that frequency when it first comes over the horizon. You can stare at it and it actually um sets up a very powerful cascade of chemical reactions, automatic. It's almost like we're we're made to look at sunrises, right? Uh that combined with breath work, I clear my head and then I'm ready to uh invest a little bit more energetically. So I'll take myself and uh my most energetic dog for a run. And within, and then after that, I'll normally have uh right next to me is my notepad and pen, and I've I'll have written down the things that I want to sort of knock out on the back of that really good energy. I've discovered that if I if I win my first say hour of the day, I kind of win the day, and so that's what I focus on. That's that's sort of my thing. Um, a lot of barefoot walking where possible. If I'm walking with my dogs, I'll walk barefoot. But um, yeah, so so what happens in my day is always on the back of you know, investing in myself first. Um, and I should add with that connecting to myself feels good, but what feels extra good is connecting to others. So, so a little act of generosity. So while I was up on my roof, I just sent out a good morning, mate, to a few people, you know, and I felt motivated enough to send like a little video message to my daughter. Yeah. So all these, you know, connecting to yourself is only half the picture. If you I've found that when I connect to somebody else with an act of generosity, that then supercharges my day. That that's like you know, living like an energetic millionaire. Um, and that's that's kind of that's kind of my goal because I I've observed and I've been there when I haven't cared about my morning routine, life is crap, I feel crap. I'm just gonna do things that affirm the fact that I feel crap, and I feel so crap, I have to, I have to um depend on things outside of me. Pills, alcohol, drugs, you know, I've been there, done that. So so now I really appreciate what it is to dial into your own, you know, what I call unique energy signature, uh, the things that are underneath our own skin. Um, because I I I just I've just seen myself as a completely two completely different people in this world, and they're both me. You know, the and and I've experienced what it is to to feel absolutely terrible, and I've experienced what it is to feel absolutely good, or what I like to think is like an energetic millionaire where you've got you've got plenty to plenty to give.

Conversationalist Sarah 6:37

And I'm so glad I asked you this question to start off with, because you're you're almost doing it within yourself. You're seeing the contrast of what we're about to sort of share, of where you've been to where you are now. And I like to start there because people go, What? This guy that starts his day like that? Let me hear about how this came to pass. And there's been a lot of life in between.

Growing Up With First Nations Mates

Conversationalist Sarah 7:01

So I know you're taking care of your ailing father right now. And I know there was a time you were growing up, you know, as a young boy in coastal Australia, uh, South Australia. You had strong connections to the indigenous community. We mentioned that in the introduction. What did you learn from that upbringing? And how did you connect to your father back then versus now?

Guest Tim Thomas 7:22

So my father worked with uh in the Canibra Aboriginal Missions on the west coast of South Australia. Uh, and this was back in a time when there was not a whole lot of First Nations acknowledgements. In fact, uh, you would daily hear all the colourful language, languages that that simply aren't repeated, but get that but got said every day, you know, back then. Um, and so it was quite a divided community that I grew up in. Um, it's getting better now, but back then it was like white is white, black is black. And when people knew that dad worked for the Aboriginals, we were socially isolated. Mum would often talk about people, would just not talk to her, right? And the Aboriginals didn't dislike us, but they didn't trust us. And after about three or four years, that all changed and we got accepted. And when you're accepted into that space, you're in. You there's no out or in, you're you're in, you know, for life. Uh, in fact, in a few weeks' time, I'm going back over there to to do some hunting. Um, because that's just a great place to to reconnect. I like to go over there quite regularly, but but growing up, I was blessed to probably one of the last generations to grow up without electronics. And so in the vacuum of distraction, we had our bodies to connect, to play, to be bored. Um, and my indigenous mates, they were highly physical, you know. Um, I think I learned how to fight really well. And I went on to win a lot of uh titles fighting because I grew up, you know, I noticed if my Aboriginal mates like me, they'd fight with me. If they if they didn't like me, they'd pick up something and throw it at me.

Conversationalist Sarah 9:12

And and you learned your moves, you learned your like martial arts moves. Uh, I learned to take a hit. Yeah, wow, that's interesting. Okay.

Guest Tim Thomas 9:22

And so it was it was an unspoken thing where you just connected with your body to the environment. And uh I figured out really early that there was not even in in the in the perfect communal society that you know often happens uh in the First Nations space, the everything is everybody's which which can be a problem because it I remember it in in school, uh, you know, kids would steal stuff and think that's not a big deal. And everyone else was like, no, no, you can't steal stuff. But I learned that you could you could ask an elder what do you make? Because they all made something, right? And uh they would say, I make boomerangs. I said, okay, make me a boomerang. And they would take you by the hand out in the bush, they'd show you the the bend in the tree, they'd cut that, they'd sit down with you by the fire, they'd and and they're working with ironwood, but it's like their hands and the axe just made this ironwood just melt. They had they were so skilled at doing this, and and some of those artifacts I've still got to this day. Um, so so it was it was I feel so fortunate to to grow up in that space, and and I don't want to say it was like all good because there was violence was just an everyday thing to the point where in my young mind I almost treated it like a cartoon. You know, there's somebody bashing somebody, there's somebody with a broken bottle trying to fight. Um there was a lot of violence and there's a lot of um abuse of alcohol in that space as well. So I don't want to say, oh, it was all peaches and cream, but it was no, there was some there was some uh negatively impactful behavior in that space. Um but I stand by the idea that I got 80% good, you know, 20%, you know, had to leave it.

Conversationalist Sarah 11:26

And I also on hearing you share those stories, I I can feel the embedded nature of that experience. And then I want to know about you in the Northern Territories. So when you move there and work on a cattle station, which I mean, you have said was lone, there was a loneliness to that. Um, you know, how do you then okay? So this is quite an interesting arc here.

Testing Limits To Join Special Forces

Conversationalist Sarah 11:49

So 2004, you're then chosen chosen as one of the oldest special forces commando, which again, so if you think embedded in the indigenous community, go to the Northern Territories, and here we are in the special forces. Like, how did you even prepare for you know a demanding role like that?

Guest Tim Thomas 12:10

I gave myself a test because I knew that the the uh oldest allowable age was 30 for this. It was the very first time in Australia's history that they ran the DRSF scheme, direct recruiting into special forces. Never had they done this before. And I said to myself, Am I too old for this? Because uh what I re because everyone was telling me, you're too old, you're too old, you're too old.

Conversationalist Sarah 12:37

And and you were 30, Tim? Is that right? I was I was about to turn 30. Okay, you were on the cut, okay. You had to go if you were gonna go. The cutoff time was was uh uh 30, I was like 29 and a half. And and um there was two things that went through my mind. One, I have to prove to myself, am I too old for this? And two, uh well, I'll tell I'll tell you what I did to prove to myself. I said, listen, I'm gonna I'm gonna give myself 10 days of workouts where I'm just bleeding from the eyeballs. And if I can do 10 days of workouts where I'm you know just full on smashing it, then I feel like I'm gonna be okay. Um, so I I did those 10 days. I'm like, yeah, okay, yeah, it was that was difficult but doable. Um and then I realized that everyone else saying you're too old, you're too old, you're too old, they're simply repeating what they had heard from someone else about what it is to be 30.

Speaker 5 13:35

Right.

Conversationalist Sarah 13:36

Okay, so so my I'm dyslexic, so I see things in patterns, and what I saw was this was the first time I'd ever aged. I'd never actually been 29 and a half before, you know. Shouldn't it be me that decides what I can and can't do at 29 and a half? Shouldn't it be? You know? Um, and and so I'm like, you know, you've got to have the right amount of F you. This is where your opinion stops, and this is where mine starts. I'm gonna maintain some sovereign boundaries here. So, you know, screw you as all, I'm gonna prove you wrong. And you did. Well, oddly enough, I mean, I picked up the nickname Old Man Tomo, and there was I wasn't a fan of it. There was a lot of resistance from the army at the time because to get into special forces previously, you had to spend two years in a regular infantry battalion before you could even apply. Got it. So they didn't necessarily love this program either from the inside. They were quite actively hating it and trying to stop it. Well said. Yeah, we've got a statistic at the School of Infantry that still stands. We got 300% more injuries than anyone else that has gone through um single. And and to the point where the medics were going to the to the CO of the uh school of infantry going, what's going on with Coral Platoon? They've got 300% more injuries than anyone else. And we later find out that they they were actively trying to break the program. Oh, okay. You know, that and they didn't they didn't hide it, but afterwards we're like, oh, actually, we're starting to see it because they denied a certain like protective gear. So, you know, and then they would actively make us crawl through this cactus and then crawl through kangaroo poo, and you'd get all these infections, and your your elbow would turn into a like a like a rock melon. Um, and and so there's all these so there there was a there was an active push. So of the 70 guys that started, there was guys that were younger, fitter, faster, stronger than I was. Um, but I think because you know my my regular ass kicking in the 70s and 80s just just gave me um a certain amount of tactile resilience that that stopped me taking it personally. Yeah, right, because it's there's a mental emotional component that you would have you've yeah, right. You had like life experience and you so obviously you get chosen. How many got chosen out of those 70? Well, uh by the end of it, there was less than 15 that got through. Oh my gosh. Um, like I said, a lot of resistance. Um, it's quite a big thing to get your uh Sherwood beret, a you know, special forces beret. But when we got ours, they said, okay, who he has done selection? Yep, okay, you've done your insertion course, which is one more thing you need to get to get your beret. So, okay, put your berets on now, go scrub out the shitters. And that was that we we put our berets on and we scrubbed shitters out, and that was that was what they thought of uh this DRSF scheme. So so that all changed though. That all changed when Afghanistan kicked off and we started showing them that we could do everything they could do and better. Um and then they became quite a fan of the scheme, and now it's still running to this day, and it's you know it's it's very well received. But but believe you me, the first one they were actively, actively trying to stop. Yeah. That thank you for sharing that. It's really interesting that you came in at that time into the the military at that exact moment in time. And and yet I imagine that, like you said, things changed and you became really tight with these men. And so, like, tell me a little bit, describe the difference between a willingness to die for someone next to you and being on a lonely cattle station. Like, could contrast these for me.

Hard Yards On Cattle Stations

Conversationalist Sarah 17:27

Well, the cattle station was unique in the way that it was probably one of the last, to put it euphemistically, old school tough environments.

Speaker 5 17:38

Okay.

Conversationalist Sarah 17:39

Okay, so I remember on the first day of um where we we first day of the big muster, the horses we ride don't get ridden very much. So they're a bit they're a bit crazy. So if you don't handle them right, they'll they'll kick you, they'll kick you off. And this this guy that was next to me um got off his horse but didn't get off quite right, and the horse reared up. I remember seeing it. This this horse pulled its rear hoofs up to its ears, and these hoofs have got a steel capped, you know, tip on them, and it kicked back in an instant and hit him right in his groin. And and it hit him that hard. Very nice of you, Tim. How you you you watched yourself, how you said that. Well done. I'm I'm trying I am trying to do my best for um whatever rating this podcast is. Um but but this this I've never hit seen a guy hit so hard, like he got hit so hard that like dust came off his body uh and and it hit him right in the most delicate parts. His eyeballs were on his cheeks, and he's like on the ground going, oh now, any other workplace, if that happened, you know, let's call a helicopter and get him out of there. And I won't filter this one, but this is what the boss said word for word. Get back on your fucking horse. Okay, say it was tough as name like that, and he did. And for the rest of the day, he rode with one hand on the saddle, and he had he still had a full day of riding ahead of him, you know, and he's he's got a he's got a swollen and injured groin, and he's bouncing along on his horse. Like he was riding and puking, and like it was insane. So you were prepared, possibly. The town station might have prepared you a little better than I'd expected. Wow, okay. That was the environment that was like my first job, and I didn't know any better. Um, and uh it was and it's it again, it's very hard to communicate the type of nervous system that needs to be embedded in a human to work in an environment where you know the environment's tough enough, you know, these horses, these cattle, you know, they'll do you if you do your do the wrong thing. And then you've got a boss that's you know, again, and and I probably didn't get off on his good side because I remember when he picked me up from Alice Springs Airport, um, you know, there were some indigenous walking around the place, and he goes, you know, half the problem this town's the black fellas. And I and then I said, What's the other half? Right? I'm like, nah, that was that was if I wanted to get along, that was not the thing to say. Got it. But yet then, so I I understand the environment was so tough, but then when you're in the army, it's just describe that kind of um male bonding kind of I don't know, like there's I I hear about it. Is it like that? What is it like to be with other people in that way? Well, this that concept of interconnectedness, the penny drops differently for different people. You know, I wasn't you know, I didn't think the guys I worked with were a-holes, you know, and there was a certain amount of bonding that takes place when you are waking and sleeping with that person next to you, when you're shaving in the mirror, they're right there next to you, when you're having your breakfast, they're next to you, when you're having lunch, they're next to you. You know, I remember one day I went and took a piss and I it felt so weird. I'm like, why does this feel so weird? And I said, Well, for the first time, I'm actually alone. You know, I don't have a constant sort of thing around me. But the the penny for me about you know the interconnectedness of human nature and the awareness that when the person next to you is stronger, you're genuinely stronger, actually happened in Afghanistan.

Afghanistan And The Power Of Service

Conversationalist Sarah 21:35

Um, when I was, you know, beyond fatigued, um, we'd lost you know, you've lost mates, you've had limbs blown off others, and I was thinking I was gonna die. And it was it was then when the penny dropped that I said, Well, who do I want to even if I'm being selfish, who do I want to around me when good times turn bad? Do I want strong connected people or do I want disconnected pissed off people? And from that space, that's when I understood the power of uh servanthood, serving your fellow human. Um, not servitude, because I'd mixed up servitude with servanthood. And um there's a there was an amount of pushback because part of me was like, you know, I've worked hard enough to be here. I'm I'm no man's servant. Uh but and I and and my act of service to my fellow, you know, operator in Afghanistan was something simple like making coffee. I had a regular supply of good quality coffee and I had a had a small little uh you know stove to make it. So I used to make coffee. Now, before I made um my fellow operators coffee, I was very aware of the dynamic within the special forces. So if you do an act of service to an insecure alpha male, you are automatically below them. Okay, you've done something for me I didn't deserve. You're my servant. And so there's this continual jousting where they're trying to sort of get one up on each other because they don't want to be below, like to them, to an insecure alpha, there's only so much energy in the room, and you've got to get the line share and you've got to, you know, take it from other people. So I knew that if I brought people coffee, they would call me the brew bitch. Okay. Not just the old guy, now you'd be a brew bitch as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Right. So, so this is this is but this is where when I got rid of that which was blocking me ascending to the place I was supposed to be, which is my ego, my idea of how things should be, how people should be. When I genuinely dropped that, because I was in a situation where I'm like, you know, this is your survival at stake here. Who do you want around you? Then I was able to serve. Be called the brew bitch and and no worries. But I noticed when I dropped off that brew thermos of coffee, these guys were often arguing. But then when they would take a sip, that they'd rapidly take a second sip because they'd realize this is actually really good coffee. And then you'd see everything just stop. The arguing was stopped. It's like the stress kind of stopped. There, their bodies would change from being hunched over, and they would sort of like it's like they took a deep breath and their shoulders just widened and they opened and they sort of looked off at the horizon. They were no longer in the war zone in Afghanistan. You know, they were back in a coffee shop, back at home, you know, and I could, it was like it was reviving their souls, and and they became softer with each other, they spoke to each other. And then before I knew it, I had the whole platoon getting coffee, and then everyone sat down. Officers, high ranks, low ranks, and it was just like a coffee shop. Now I was saying nothing and doing nothing, but in that moment I saw the power of servanthood. Oh, that's a really cool story. It's actually really deep, isn't it? Like you've you know that I can hear in your explanation. Do you did you understand the depth at the time? Or was that it was almost like that message was occurring in real time, right? You didn't have words for it yet, or well, that was on the back of something a little ethereal, if I'm being euphemistic. I I actually I've heard two audible whispers in my life, one of which was in Afghanistan. And it could have been um that my fatigue, it could have been my stress, it could have been my subconscious telling me something I really needed to hear, but I honest to God heard this whisper, and it was four four words, yeah, and it was and it was literally a whisper, and it was take the ego out of it, take the ego out of it, and and I'm like, okay, well, that must be there for a reason because and so so I thought now's the time to take so without really seeing the deeper meaning, I just did what I was whispered to, and and it was afterwards when I saw the the outcome, that's when I'm like, oh, now I get it, oh now I get it, now I get it, now I get it. And it's really interesting when you spoke about the ego of a like I think you said, did you call it insecure ego or something? Uh insecure alphas. Alpha, insecure alpha. And I thought that was really interesting because when you shift the conversation in an environment where possibly ego is going on, um, yeah, the magic. That's a very, very cool story.

Why He Left The Army

Conversationalist Sarah 26:48

And so what, you know, hearing that kind of the the the depth of what was going on for you then to then leave the military in 2010, like what I'm gonna call them unexpected challenges did you face? Because I think possibly you didn't even know that it would be this hard. So, what landed? What started to come at you in terms of challenges? All right, I'll tell you a little secret. Um, I didn't want to leave the military. Got it. Okay, so um after Afghanistan, I finally got my team around me, you know, because up until that point, I wasn't one of the boys. I didn't, I had a family, I didn't go out drinking. Um, I actually I had a had a had a spiritual belief which was somewhat shunned. And I understand it's in their mind, oh, he's got God in his head. How does he gonna react under pressure? So let's just not even think about it, let's bin him. Okay, so I was I was quite I understood that. You know how I said about um alpha males? Alpha males always need uh a submissive male, so they because to them there's only so much air in the room, so they for them to get it, they've got to take it from others. So they're always looking for the as they call it the the shit bag to to bag out because then they get this sense of security because we're all now attacking the shit bag, right? So I was that shit bag, and it didn't help that I didn't really understand you know military, you know, culture and certain things. I it took me a while to figure all that out. But after Afghanistan, when I did what I did and I I could I without blowing my own trumpet, I could do things with weapon systems that only three or four guys on the planet could do.

Speaker 5 28:23

Yeah.

Conversationalist Sarah 28:24

Okay. Uh and when they saw that, and and men need to see other men doing physical stuff that they value, then they're like, Oh, I value that person. I'm almost going to forget about what kind of personality type they have because that stuff really he did that stuff when it mattered, as it mattered, and no one else can do it, so let's just accept this guy. So so after that deployment, I had guys fed income coming up and apologizing to me saying we we believed all the gossip. Um, and I'm like, right, this is a job for life. I've got my brothers around me. Finally, this is family, right? Oh, interesting. But what was interesting was at the end of the Afghan deployment, we were gonna have a party, right? Fair enough. And so it was gonna be on a boat in Sydney Harbor. Um, it was a hundred US dollars. When you're overseas, everything's in US dollars. So I gave them a hundred US dollars, yep, it's let's do this. Um, now on the boat, they were gonna have strippers. Now, my agreement with my um uh she's my then wife now, not my ex-wife, but my my agreement has all had always been with my then wife that I would never do anything away from her that I do wouldn't do with her, and she knew that. Um uh and so there's no way I'm gonna be looking at strippers when I'm away from my wife, just like I wouldn't if I was with my wife. So, but I'm a I'm a big boy. If they're up one end of the ship, I'll be at the other end of the ship. You know, I can still have a good time. If the boys want to do that, no worries. But anyway, what happened was some of the wives found out that there was going to be strippers at this party, and they called up the the head of the um um commandos, and as they say, shit rolls downhill. Um, and our major pulled out the whole company, and you know something's going on when there's a pissed-off major calling everybody out, so everybody's there, and we've just done a deployment to Afghanistan, and he you don't have to give special forces soldiers orders, okay? We know how to do the job. What a good commander will do is show their intention. My intention is to take that hill, all right, and I trust the fact that you're good enough to figure it out for yourself. So it was pretty clear he was very pissed off that he couldn't have strippers at this party, and he berated everybody, and then right at the end, he goes, Right, who here has a problem with strippers? And this is where it gets really weird. Um, I literally felt like there was another me next to me with his hand on my shoulder, half smiling, saying, Tim, I I laugh when I say this, but this really happened. Uh it said, Tim, there is never a convenient time to be yourself.

Speaker 5 31:17

Oh my god.

Conversationalist Sarah 31:18

Okay, and and you've got three seconds to do something about it. And I went freaking boom. I put my hand up, and it was like Moses through the Red Sea, everyone's heads turned, and the and the mage was like, Oh, he was kind of surprised. Someone actually, you do, you know, like this. And it was it was just funny how two weeks later I got my ass transferred to another company.

Speaker 5 31:46

Wow.

Conversationalist Sarah 31:47

Okay. And they said I was due to certain, you know, whatevers, but there was other people with those same things that never got transferred, right? And anyway, um, that doesn't sound like much being transferred to another company, but as a private rank, you work very hard to get established that oh, this guy is um a good operator, um, you know, he's ready for promotion. And and I felt like I'd I'd worked for years to get to that point and going to a new company, you sort of got to start again. And I'm like, well, you know what? No big deal. And the company I was going to was about to deploy to Afghanistan, so I'm like, oh, this is gonna be cool. I I always do well outside in the in the outside the wire, outside of base, doing the doing the job, right? But then when I get there, this is when I'm like, this is unworkable. All the um senior ranks pull me over and go, and and I'll use the words that they use. We've fucking heard about you, cunt. And it was at that point I'm like, I know what's gonna happen now. When we go on deployment, I'm gonna be the number one door kicker. They're gonna send me through the door first. Because all the all the lowest ranking, all the people they don't care about, they'll send through the door first. Because on the other side of that door, could be a machine gun, could be a wife of kids, I don't care, right? And they would do, I pictured it, I pictured in my head, these guys are gonna write up this really great, you know, um eulogy to my you know, to my family saying he's a great soldier, we loved him, right? I'm like, fuck these guys. You know what? If I stay here in this job that I really wanted for the rest of my life, that's gonna mean I agree with that with their idea of my sense of self-worth. Fuck that. I don't know where I'm going, but I can't stay here. And it was at that moment where I'm like, Yeah, I I'm like, I don't know where I'm going, but I I spoke to my my wife at the time and and she agreed. She's right. We're I see. So you leave the military in those, but of course, like you've just described, um, under duress, really, because you just did it to not die, you know, to not be sent to the wolves, literally. And so once you're out, like once, and obviously this possibly actually let's back it up a bit. I wasn't scared of dying, like I genuinely made my peace with death, like genuinely, genuinely, genuinely, right? Um to the point where I could enjoy what I was doing, you know. I remember one of my mates said, Tim, you're not supposed to enjoy this so much. Because I because when you genuinely get rid of any attachment to seeing the sunrise again, all of a sudden you become super powerful in that moment. And ironically, you're harder to kill when you've made your peace with death. So it wasn't me and the fear of death, it was dying for people that didn't give a shit. Yeah, got it. Um, and and but more importantly, what Trump that was me staying would mean I agree with their sense of my self-worth. And and that was the that was the point of separation. So when you're actually on the outside now, and this may explain why things started to get really bad, you mean you left not, you know, maybe not fully your choice. Um describe when you knew things were getting bad, though, when you were on the outside now.

PTSD, Drinking And A Red Flag Moment

Conversationalist Sarah 35:08

Look, if you asked me at the time, I would say everything's fine. I'm working a job, I'm helping people, blah, blah, blah. But it didn't stop the fact that I had to drink half a carton of grog before I could unwind and be with my family at the end of the day. Got it. So there was an imbalance there that I was self-medicating with. Um yeah. And but how did you know that it was more than just that? Like what really sort of put what was the line in the sand where you're like, things are bad. I need, I need something different, I need to change. Well, like a lot of guys, we don't change because of our own um pain, because we almost pride ourselves on how much pain we can handle. They give they give medals to people that can handle pain. So it wasn't so much the pain, it was the fact that, and again, I'm not the only one that does this, there was the family was breaking down. So something's wrong here, I don't understand. And that's where at the time the only option given me was oh, go see a psychologist. And that didn't make a whole lot of sense to me because why would I talk to some stranger I didn't trust? It was April twenty eleven. The government wasn't paying me to do it. I go into this guy's office and he wasn't just incompetent. Incompetency I can handle it. He was completely apathetic. And and it was really hard for me to share with him all the stuff that I'd seen and done. Um and then for him to say at the end, Oh, do you think it was a problem with your mum and dad? Um everything froze. And I became very aware of everything that was in that room. And I saw his glass frame psychology degree behind him. And in my state of disconnect, it made a lot of sense to grab that glass frame and feed it physically down his throat because this guy is saying he's a healer, but he's not just a not healing people, he's making things worse. So it made a lot of sense to remove this motherfucker because he is more interested in keeping people sick. So let's let's just remove the problem. And I get out of my chair to do this, okay? I got a certain skill set, there's nothing he could have done to stop me doing what I was going to do. But as I step forward to do it, I feel this hand in my chest and words to the effect of red flag. Tim, you are the toughest guy you know. And I'm literally on the edge of the chair. I'm out of my chair, I've got my hands ready to go. And these words that came to me said, Tim, you're the toughest guy you know. And you are struggling right now, struggling in this system that that doesn't seem to care or even want you better. How many and this is the golden question how many other people are in your situation right now? And in that moment, that question, me asking how many others are in that situation right now, I sat down and I saw them. Hundreds of thousands of people to my left, hundreds of thousands of people to my right, and they're all looking in saying, Tim, we're struggling. If you can find a way forward for you, you can find a way forward for us. And and in that moment my isolation was broken. And I un and I understood then very clearly what the worst thing pain does to people. Pain, given a right duration or intensity, creates loneliness and isolation. And it's the loneliness and isolation that that brings out the craziest crap in people. Because in my loneliness and isolation, I can self-justify everything. I can self-justify killing this man. Yeah. And so sitting down, seeing those people the only thing that saved me was seeing all the other people that are hurting, and then saying to myself, Tim, it doesn't matter if it takes you a week, a month, a decade to find your way forward. Because if you can find a way forward for you, you can find a way forward for them. I I'm fascinated with the idea that in that intense psychological moment, it was the them part that really sat you back down, you know, and and even in your other stories, it's the them, the connecting part that was your most the highlight, you know, the joy that you had. So here you are having that real awakening. Basically, you chose a different path in that moment. And yet, what was what were on what were some of the steps to that recovery after that? I mean, it probably it wasn't magic on day one, was it? So what were some of the steps to recovery?

Fatigue, Hormones And Finding Real Help

Conversationalist Sarah 40:47

Well, this is something not many people talk much about. Uh, but one of the board members, oddly enough, one of the I didn't know this at the time, um, one of the board members of uh GMR is a professor Chris Strakosh. Okay, he's an endocrinologist. And when I saw him, he said, Tim, I've been seeing this since Vietnam. When you're stressed, cortisol goes up. Cortisol's good, but too much for too long drives your hormones into the dirt. Okay, low testosterone. Low testosterone looks like you're always tired but can't sleep. You're you're using anger as a source of energy, you know, but that's like you know, only having $2 in the account and writing a check for 200, you know, it just puts you further into overdraw and you start looking for short-term energy loans, you know, sugar, coffee, alcohol. Um and so getting out of fatigue, well, firstly, breaking isolation, me seeing these people left and right of me. Because I was no longer to me, I'm thinking there's at least a million, all right. So those numbers told me that I'm I'm not one in a million, I'm a million in one. So even if I'm making a small gain, a centimeter worth of gain, I'm actually making a million centimeters. So that concept of making a collective decision helped me move forward in my healing journey. And I I I would not have been able to do that if it wasn't for Chris, uh Professor Chris Strakosh from the GMR board getting me out of fatigue, balancing my hormones. Yeah, wow. Okay, so so once I was out of fatigue, that gave me energy to invest in my journey of seeking help. And and this is what nobody told me, and I'll share it with you now is that when you find the right healer, healing takes far less time than what you actually think. But what no one tells you is that finding that right healer um can take many, many years. Um, that's where the work goes in for you to find the right healer. And and to be honest, if you're working with somebody and they can't make a massive improvement within 12 weeks, they're doing it wrong. I I know healers that have been able to make a massive impact in just three sessions because they understand where it's all where it's all coming from. Um so if if I hadn't gotten myself out of fatigue, then I there's n I could have had the best psychologist in front of me, but if I'm feeling alone, isolated, and fatigued, none of their stuff is getting through. Right. So so getting out of fatigue, and it took me then six years to find a good psychiatrist, psychologist and psychiatrist. Yeah, got it. Um Because a lot of veterans get stuck in the idea of okay, you're hurting, um, you're struggling to work, let's get a claim through DVA. And that is somewhat strangely sustaining in the way that I've got a mission now, I've got to beat DVA. And it becomes very combative because the mistake that gets made by a lot of veterans, humans too, is that they think that the money they get is going to put back in what the service took out. Yeah, got it. And it it simply doesn't do that. All the all the money does is allow you to get rid of the financial pressure so you can seek healing. Because it can be quite a full-time job seeking a healer. Like I said, six years before I found this one that was like, wow, you've just changed everything. Um I hope that answers your question. Yeah, no, that's actually quite interesting. And so in those six years, is that when you came across Gallipically Medical Research for the first time? And and this whole veterans ambassador idea, or was that a bit later? Well, no, what I got in the in the depth of it was an understanding that there's millions of dollars of resources being poured into the veteran space, okay, being poured into people saying, Hey, I'm I can heal people, give me money. But in my experience, 98% of them ain't worth squat. Okay. They just they just they work really hard to get that little piece of paper on the wall, and it's like they're trying to spend the rest of their life trying to justify their existence on, oh, this is the way people are, fit them into their template. And that's just not going to cut cut it with a veteran with a strung out uh nervous system. In fact, I know a few psychologists that deliberately don't work with uh veterans because they'll just call them, no, you this ain't working and you're not working, and and you you're just a fabrication. These walls that you live in and justify yourself in, yeah, you're getting money, but you're not getting results. Okay, and and people learn how to hide in the bureaucracy. And and and that doesn't help the veteran that is or the person, anyone seeking healing, because people seeking healing are very disempowered, and they'll either get angry or blame themselves. And and and both are uh create unworkability. So what I'm trying to say is is is is even though I was you know not fully recovered, I discovered two powerful things that gave me a lifetime goal. So my lifetime goal was to save 40 veteran life from suicide. I didn't care if I worked the rest of my life. That number of 40 was um because we'd lost about 40 Australian soldiers in Afghanistan. So I thought if I can save 40 veterans from suicide, I'll die happy. But that was achieved within 12 months because of these two bits of dynamite that no one was addressing, and that was no one understood that pain, it really doesn't matter if it's physical or emotional, it'll get to a certain duration or intensity where it transforms into loneliness. I'm the only one going through that. You know, there's all these unspoken words that I can't say, and they become rocks around my heart, and I'm not feeling anything. So I I remember when I was in it, I had to drink so much alcohol because I just wanted to feel something. I'd go to the dentist um to get root canal work, and I'd ask for no uh anesthetic because I wanted to feel something, and all these sort of crazy things because it was like I was numb and the world that I was living in um was so physically unchallenging. You know, in in the in the military, there's certain things you've got to do, certain challenges you've got to meet on a daily basis. But then when you're out in Civvy Street, it's like the hardest thing you've got to decide is what you're having for lunch. Yeah. And and and that might seem like a a good day, and it is good for a short period of time, but then when you're feeling unchallenged, it's like it's like you've you've you've been trained to be Superman, and now here's your clerk can't close and you're never taking them off. So so good analogy. Yeah. So that breaking the isolation and then getting people out of fatigue, it's like that cracked the code. When you understood that about a human, they then could access their own resources. Um, and they had 98% of everything they needed already inside of them. And when you understand that, you need 98% less resources. So, you know, I'll say it loud and proud, you know, of the millions of dollars that go into veteran um, you know, mental health or mental health in general, it is water off a duck's back if you're not breaking isolation and you're getting them out of fatigue.

Why Gallipoli Medical Research Felt Different

Conversationalist Sarah 48:52

And I can see why you're an ambassador now, because the not only being able to speak about your personal experience, but your desire to share that with others. So when you are working with Gallipoli Medical Research, and like you said, you've seen a lot of um fake players, if you will, people pretending, what was different about them for you? And and you know, you you'd seen other people trying to help. What felt different? And why did you say yes to being their ambassador versus other places, perhaps? Really good question. And this actually speaks to the culture within Gallipoli Medical. Okay, so they're they're all academics, God bless them, all right? Um, but research facilities from the veteran perspective, they're a bit like alien spacecraft. They land, probe you deeper cigarettes, and then bugger off without even buying you a coffee. And and who wants to do that twice? Okay, and and so most um research done by these facilities uh uh is collected from people that just want to talk to anybody. Okay, you're not really getting into the to the veteran core. Um so the thing that made GMR stand apart was their balance of academia and heart. Because it's one thing for a person to say, Oh, I'm listening, but they're not really listening. But GMR is like, hey, you know, we're listening. And and they deliberately emptied, you could have a sense that they were emptying their own ideas of what should and shouldn't happen, and they actually let the person that they were trying to um, you know, create tools to help. And that's another point of difference, by the way. So they're not they they're understanding their intention that they're not just there to collect a bunch of data that agrees with an idea that they have about um a certain group in their community, and then look at me, I've been published by my um uh peers, and uh I'm now everything that a researcher should be. No, these guys were tool oriented, and for that, their their effectiveness, they understood that they didn't speak the veteran language, they knew that. Uh, so they would engage with you know the community saying how what would if we were to do this, what would be the best way to do it? And that there is a straight up game changer, asking the community that you want to impact what would work best for them, as opposed to, you know, we've got a bunch of resources, we'll just shower it down and hope it hits something. No, they were they were quite um I don't want to use the word surgical, but they could get to the most important blockages that would block um the exchange of information between the community of veterans and what they were trying to achieve. So when I and and it seems strange, but yeah they made you feel safe. And that and that as much as that's you know big, strong, you know, defense people, but but when you get out, you've sort of you've got this guard up. It's like you can't really show yourself and you don't want to be hurt. Um and when someone can make you feel safe, you drop your guard and you can actually speak your truth. And and and so I as if I was to put it in a nutshell, GMR allowed the veteran community to speak their truth without filters, without judgment, and and that was the power they had to engage a very wide section of the veteran community, not just the peripherals that couldn't talk to, you know, didn't just would talk to anybody, but like the the deepest part, and um and they they and yeah, and their ability to to listen to really go, yeah, we we get it. We might not have experienced it ourselves, but we're getting it. Yeah, that is a really amazing analysis of what the power of being listened to feels like and how it's being demonstrated that someone listens, like not just nodding your head, but taking an action from what you say and and just the impact of being listened to. And so, as we said at the beginning, you know, you have come a long way on your journey. Um, you've now built yourself a life over the last decade. So you did mention um that initial goal of helping 40 people with suicide was achieved within 12 months, but give me a little of the life that you've been creating over the last decade.

Giving From Abundance And Sovereignty

Conversationalist Sarah 53:58

So you might have, you know, I early earlier mentioned about doing an act of generosity and how that creates full circle connection. Um generosity can be done wrong, and what nobody knew in that 12 months of saving, you know, 40 lives from suicide, uh, was that every six or seven weeks I'd have to write myself off for about three days with alcohol. Because what I was doing, and a lot of veterans do this, they were, you know, that helped someone else, say they helped three people. Oh, that felt really good. Let's help 30, let's help 300. And you there's a certain you know, critical mass that once you go past, um, you think you're doing more for more, but you're actually depleting yourself in the process. Okay. So, so what I was doing, um, I was giving of myself and I wasn't giving of my abundance. So, so uh let me dial into what that looks like. So if I'm at 100% and I give somebody 10%, I'm down to 90%, and there's a part of me with an expectation of you better do something with that 10%. Okay. And you know, over six or seven weeks, I go from 90, 80, 70, 20, and then you know, to hell with the world, I'm just gonna drink. And then that would somehow regaggle everything, and I would be able to work again for another six or seven weeks before it happened again, right? So my my saying now is don't give of yourself, give of your abundance because the way I look at it is being adequate's not an option. I've got to invest in me to create 500% because then I can give away 20% every single day, and I can be really consistent with that because it doesn't matter if someone loves it, hate it, tell tells me to get stuffed. I'm in touch with something a whole lot greater. And I can lose 20%, I'll just get it back tomorrow. So that that was the I traded my expectations for affirmations. I wasn't being generous to others with an expectation of hey, you need to do something. I was doing it as an affirmation of this is this is who Tim Thomas is and how he wants to live his life. Create an abundance, give a portion away, and and you know, be awesome. Yeah, wow. Okay. I can see the difference between giving of your abundance versus almost that, like you said, the the expectation resentment loop that required you to drink to recover in order to get back out there again. And I think that message speaks to not just people who've been in the military. I think that's everything you've said today is is um civilian friendly, if you will. Um, we're humans. We are definitely humans, and and and you know, I I just think that in the veteran space, they're humans, but they're a lot more acute in their symptoms. So, and they've got no energy for placebo effects, you know. So you have to find something that actually works when it's supposed to in the deepest and darkest places, um, and then and then it translates very well, you know, into the civilian realm because um you you have something that works without the fluff, without the add-on, without the marketing. Um, and if it wasn't for me being in those places, I wouldn't have such a passion for uh I don't like to use the word helping people. I use the word I love making people so being sovereign, being aware of their sovereign power underneath their own skin. Because underneath their own skin, we've got all these incredible, incredible resources that we can go our whole lives and not even knowing about, right? And so, and the world we currently live in has a whole economy based on the ignorance of our own awesomeness. Okay, I didn't know that when I wasn't sleeping, breath work could help me sleep really, really well, get rid of my intrusive thoughts, heal my body. I didn't know that, and I lost six years of my life to pills because I didn't know my own sovereign power. So, restoring someone's sovereignty, you know, usually you only need to do it once, you know, and then you just keep you know doing the things that really work for you. So the the saying, you know, the the key to enlightenment is you know, chop wood, draw water. When you find enlightenment, what do you do? Chop wood, draw water. So, so you know, my what we noticed happened very rapidly was breaking someone's isolation. It was hard to do it on their own, easier to do it as a collective, and then getting them out of fatigue, they started their own quite automatically chopping wood, drawing water. And then that came to a certain point where they're like, oh, we've got it now. And then they just did the same stuff in a position of generosity, not just you know, self-sustaining. Wow, that example of sovereignty was really amazing around breath work, something that everybody has access to, meaning, you know, breathe in, breathe out, with technique possibly, but everyone has access versus pills. I thought that was a really interesting um parallel there around sovereignty. And so Tim it is super scary, Sarah. And I've got to say, I know you're about I had to interrupt you. It's it's super scary the advantage people get people get taken advantage of because they don't know their own sovereign power. You know, I I I was one of those people, you know. So if I had a life mission, I mean I I joined the army because I knew that you know boundaries are important. You know, beautiful things can't grow without boundaries, small things can't become big without boundaries. You know, when a when a small tree can be the biggest tree, but it needs a little bit of protection so a stupid little rabbit doesn't nip the head off of it. Okay, so so I felt very strongly about boundaries so beautiful things can grow. Um and that way a country can be sovereign. But unfortunately, people don't know that their the boundary of their skin, their ignorance won't protect them. If you don't know the awesomeness underneath your own skin, you will look out, we will be a lot of money will be taken from us by us trying to buy power from outside of us. Yes, and I think like that makes me think a lot about you know, parenthood, like how we start off our journeys and we do a lot of forgetting. Um, I think this conversation actually started with you in a community that was teaching you about the land and like some really core messaging that that basically like followed you through some really tough times. And I want to just thank you for being so open and generous today in the sharing of what has been an incredible life so far. And I know you're not finished, but just for the work that you've already done so far, Tim, thank you so much. I really appreciate you. Thank you, Sarah. I will let that land. Um it's kind of just drawing a dry smile out of me now, but you kind of see that our lives are not our own. We were given these things so that we can let the light in. Or if I'm using plain speak to a veteran, I'll say you might not think you're special, but I bet you've been through some shit. Okay, and it's our job to turn that shit into fertilizer. Because that's that's what it's there for. And the stinkiest shit that you don't want to touch that I was ashamed of becomes the absolute best fertilizer, the thing that helps everything grow. And that's such a different concept. Because I'm used to serving with a rifle, okay. What how would my shit ever serve anybody? But transforming that into fertilizer and helping everything grow, because everyone's everyone's going through some form of crap, right? Um to actually be able to add value to others by the things that you know you just didn't want to touch. Like that is a is a massive shift. As guys, we tend to think it's what we do that makes us valuable to others. But it it to be honest, one of the greatest values we have in others is is not so much what we do, but what we've come through.

Speaker 5 1:02:40

Hear, here, Tim. Hear, here. Thank you.

Final Reflections And How To Support

Host Miriam Kent 1:02:46

Thank you for joining us for this episode of Voices. We hope you've been inspired by the courage, honesty, and generous spirit shared on today's episode. Our work only happens with your support. So please visit us at www.galipoliresearch.com.au. And now over to your part. If you know someone who needs to hear this episode, please share it with them. And why not review our podcast so that others can hear voices of GMR? Don't forget to click the follow button so you can easily find that next episode. Thank you for listening. We look forward to sharing the next voice of Gallipoli Medical Research with you very soon.