Welcome to Chain Reaction, a podcast from the American Chemical Society, where we link chemistry's past to its future. I'm your host, Margo Wall.
SPEAKER_05And I'm Shane Hanlon.
SPEAKER_04Well, Shane, we're coming to the end of our time together.
SPEAKER_05For now.
SPEAKER_04Yes. For now. More on that later. But as we bring home our series celebrating ACS's 150th, I want to get to your interview that you teased last week with.
SPEAKER_05Chemical Kim.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Yeah. So for those of you who aren't familiar, Kim Hilton is a chemistry professor and a digital creator who has a huge online platform where she shares chemistry with the masses.
SPEAKER_02So here's the ethanol molecule. And it's kind of cute because I think the ethanol molecule looks like a dog peeing. I'm going to use a battery and just touch it to the steel wool, and you can see how quickly the battery ignites the steel wool.
SPEAKER_00To break these ranting polymers, add one tablespoon of acetic acid. Acetic acid.
SPEAKER_01Don't worry, just been a girl. Okay. All right. Oh, you are great. Okay, ready.
SPEAKER_04She's just a live. I mean, she's on the news, she's on the Tamara Hall show. Pretty wild.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, and she has a real passion for education and making chemistry more interesting and digestible to broad audiences. And so when we talked, she shared stories about her early days struggling with chemistry, some of her most memorable students, and the people who really inspire her, among other things.
SPEAKER_04Well, I'm very excited to hear this one. So let's get to it.
SPEAKER_05I know you as Chemical Kim. How do you feel about folks refer to you as Chemical Kim rather than Kim Hilton?
SPEAKER_02It is so funny you say that. I I guess to answer that, my own children will call me Chemical Kim. So it has been so weaved in the fabric of who I am that I literally should go to City Hall and get a name changed. Like after you get to know me, it's the element of who I am. Honestly, it's my nickname for sure. And it's also, you know, what I do every day of my life.
SPEAKER_05So these days, I think a lot of folks know who you are through your social media presence, through your outreach efforts, through those initiatives. And I'm really excited to talk about those. But at the end of the day, you're an educator.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. So that's actually my full-time job, and I've been doing it for 30 years, which is insane to me. Because every semester it feels like the first time I'm teaching. I know that sounds crazy, but it really does. I get nervous, I'm excited, um, I have new ideas, you know, just kind of comes with you know the passion that I have with it. But um, yeah, my journey though started not wanting to really ever talk in public. I I stumble with language, but I think it really all did begin with me being in the classroom as a student. Um, I went to a college that was predominantly male. The ratio was seven to one, male to female. So, you know, it I felt, I felt like the odd duck, you know. I felt like, is this the space for me? And it really even made it more difficult when I would sit in class. I remember my first chemistry class in college, and I sat there in that first lecture taking notes, you know, being really diligent, the professor going from like one overhead projector to the other, and it was just like maddening, you know, writing things down. And I remember after a lecture, just feeling like I did a workout and I looked around me, you know, of course, mostly men. I'm like, am I the only one that feels like I just took a foreign language class? Because I didn't understand a word that was said. And it really did make me question that day one as signed in as a chemistry major, if I'm in the right place, because I didn't understand it. I ended up really sitting in my dorm or my apartment, wherever I was living through the years, teaching chemistry to myself because the lectures just didn't do it for me. And come full circle going into my junior year, I found out that crazy, it's a technical college, but they actually had an education department where I could get my secondary education certification. And I thought, well, why not? Like, why not make my life harder while I'm in college? I wanted to face something that I was very afraid of, and that is a course speaking in front of people. And I thought, well, teaching this might help me break that fear, at least taking some education classes. Finished education classes, graduated with my bachelor's of science and chemistry semester after I did my student teaching to get that secondary education certification. The professor that was the advisor that came to observe me to, you know, of course, grade me in my student teaching experience. He sat down with me and he's like, Kim, I can tell you really love chemistry. I can tell you we're really work hard at what you do in learning, but please don't go into teaching. Like you are just, you know, you probably should look at a lab job. You know, you you do work good with people. I think you have a good personality, but I don't think you're good in front of a classroom. And he was right. I'm not gonna say, like, wow, that guy was an idiot. No, he was right, he absolutely was right. So I put it aside. I went and worked as an environmental chemist for a bit, but it was gnawing at me. I'm like, why couldn't I do that? Like it was again facing that fear, and it took a bit, and I did actually put myself back into school, started to take communication classes, uh, speech, education classes, and I really started to develop this understanding that I need to teach Chemical Kim. And that was where Chemical Kim started to evolve because in the process, I also put myself out into the community and started to do some volunteer outreach with bringing science activities to the community. And I jumped back into the classroom and I got my first high school teaching job and I started to teach who I am in my very common language, in a way that I know how I wanted to be taught. I'm gonna teach to these students in that in that format. I started to recognize that, yeah, this is my place, this is my space, and this is where I'm needed in what I have. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05Right. And it sounds like your students really resonate with that, right? They really appreciate that approach. Are there any anecdotes or any specific examples of folks or students you've had where it really resonated where it might not have otherwise?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Oh my gosh, how long do we have, right? I mean, 30 years. You can imagine the stories I have. Everything from high school and having students that, you know, I connected with. I was young, obviously, so I could connect with them being close to their age. But I was also, you know, in cross-country and track and then ended up coaching in the high school, you know, having that opportunity to talk to students outside the class to get their feedback and also seeing how they're sharing with me some of the home science activities that they're doing that I've encouraged them to do through the classrooms. And then knowing that, you know, this was their step into college, right? This is their step into preparing them for those college classes that they're gonna take. But, you know, my home, though, after high school teaching really became community college, state college level. And I didn't think I would like it. I really thought I was gonna be a high school teacher, but once I started teaching at the community college, wow, like I don't know why more people don't take advantage of community college, state college education. One, it's low cost, but two, you'll get a professor like me and many of your subjects that really care and just like we want you to succeed. And I see many students that walk into my classroom that just didn't have a teacher in their high school experience that really cared or just looked at them and said, Yeah, you belong here in chemistry, regardless of your background, regardless if you're a boy, a girl, where you're from, who your parents are, where your parents came from, regardless, you belong here in chemistry. And I jokingly start off my my semester every semester with a talk to my students. And part of that talk is at the end of this semester, I'm going to change all of you to chemistry majors. Like I literally make that that's my mission. And I know I love that you laugh because you know, they laugh too. And honest, if I get one or two at the end of the semester, I usually do that. It's like, you know what? I think I might, you know, maybe not chemistry, but like biology or like something STEM, right? Where they will share with me that they never thought they would like it. Or yeah, I I loved science when I was a young kid, but middle school, high school struggled so heavy. Now I'm in your class, I'm getting an A because I'm working hard, but you're also breaking it down where I can show you I know this information. But one of my favorite stories, I had this student named Ashley, who, you know, I was walking to class, first day of class, and students, of course, you know, sitting out in the hallway. And she shared with me after years after taking my class that, you know, that first day I walked up into the classroom, she saw that I was wearing these periodic table high tops. And I'm like, okay, I, you know, I always wear those. And she's like, yeah, but that was like, wow, I think this is gonna be a great professor. And I thought, really, because of the my shoes, but you know, and not that it was the shoes that made it through for her, but it was the fact that she recognized that like this person that I'm gonna have for this chemistry class, you can tell, loves chemistry. I can see that she's wearing these shoes, but also again, that beginning speech that I gave, and then how through the semester I broke the material down in a language that she could understand. And this is her second time taking the class, and she was hesitant to do it again. But what is so rewarding about this story about Ashley is that she's now a medical doctor. Oh, and the fear that like she was not gonna make it. So, to me, that like I hold on to that. I hold on to that story, knowing that like I could have another Ashley, and they are going to make a difference in this world, and it starts right here.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, I really love that. I mean, especially this was her second time doing it. And the fact that she came back and the fact that you made such an impact. I should say I I wish I would have had you as a professor. I have a chemistry minor, but I received it kind of under protest because I'm a biology major and we had to get a minor in chemistry to do it. And uh a very stereotypical OCEM just destroyed me. And so I got it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It is funny as a as a researcher in a previous life, I swore like I would just never come back to chemistry. And here I am working at ACS. Uh, but no, that's that's fantastic to hear. I love that idea of that allowing your personality to shine through.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, and I, you know, I I obviously with the years I've done it, I've seen enough and I've recognized enough and I've evolved enough to realize that, you know, the way I was taught and the way that it is still taught in many institutions only speaks to one audience. And we need to continually diversify science. We need to bring in all voices. And if you're only speaking to one audience, how are we going to do that? Right.
SPEAKER_05And I know so you kind of you ran through how you got to where you are as an educator. I guess there's all sorts of education, but it's a professor. Uh, at some point, you started doing more outreach, right? You started getting into outside of the classroom, let's say. What were those early days like? And and how did that kind of lead you to doing what you do today and what a lot of folks know you for?
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. My media experience and my outreach experience, my my like hands-on, like whether it's, you know, in schools, Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts, Big Brothers, Big Sisters, foster care programs, you know, libraries, museums, that all started when I was in graduate school. And um, I really just felt a need to continually bring to the community a sense of like belonging, you know, and go to these after-school programs and places where, you know, giving them some science experience, some science discoveries and activities isn't going to feel so much like lecture in class, right? And that that brought me great joy. You know, I'm giving this young population of students and kids this like, hey, you can explore and you can discover and you can be curious. And science helps us, you know, understand those curiosities, not give us the full answers, but gives us the tools, right? And one of my favorite of all science outreach things I've ever done in all of my career was at the children's hospital in Grand Rapids. And shout out to Sarah Smith, who's the educator there. Um, her and I came up with a class that we put together called Science Fridays. And it was an opportunity for the kids at the hospital to come and do science right there in a classroom that was set up. Because, as you know, when you're a kid having to be in the hospital because of care, they lose school. And that's why I say shout out to Sarah, because Sarah was an advocate for these students to say, you know, they're here at the hospital, but if we eliminate school, that's the one thing that they know. We need to keep that normal in their life so that they don't lose that sense of like, I belong in this world, right? And having them come in on Fridays and doing the science activity with me was challenging, right? Because you have to set up these science activities that are very contained per student. They couldn't share them with the other kids. And also, you know, the safety with what chemicals I can bring in and what materials I can bring in, but it worked fantastic. And honestly, like I I would leave almost every Friday crying of joy. It was wonderful. It was wonderful. But my my media presence kind of the the journey there is really funny. Well, I don't want to say funny, but really odd. I had a I had a student that uh was very big into media, and he said, Hey Kim, did you know that you can make your own show at the local access station? You know, every community has those cable stations that are like community stations.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02And like, really, okay, well, let me explore this. So I did some classes at the community cable network station and put together the Chemical Kim Science show. It wasn't good. Um, there's old videos up somewhere, but I honestly had a blast. It was a great time. I had no trouble getting at least three, if not four, volunteer camera people that wanted to come and film for the episodes. Um, the community support was wonderful. And I would often get a middle school age kid that would come on the show with me and do science with me. And that was my my goal with the show. Like, I don't want to be Chemical Kim just showing, like, here, do this activity. I want to do it with a young person to let other audiences see that, like, wow, if they can do it, I can do it. As cheesy and as awkward as I felt the show was, I was surprised to see that I won the Phil Tees Farmsworth Award, which is sort of like the Emmys for Community Access TV. So that was exciting. Yeah.
SPEAKER_05That's great. That's fantastic. I I love this idea of doing the science with kids versus talking at kids, whether it's in the hospital doing these kind of one-on-one interactions or like you said, like on the Chemical Kim Science Show, right? It's you wanted to bring them in. It's it's always focused on the interactive.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. And our some of our favorite high school teachers were those that were right in front of the room making the elephant's toothpaste, and we'd be like, Whoa, like that is fantastic, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I can imagine a lot of the stories you're telling. You've you've obviously reached so many people. Has uh has anyone told you kind of directly that you inspired me to do this thing?
SPEAKER_02My favorite is when I have students years later come back and share where their success has been. Because I'm that cheerleader as much as I am in social media. I don't want to be the showcase. I want to have them be the showcase and I'm standing in the stance. Like, good job. And so when people reach out to me on social media and I get all ages that reach out, it's interesting. My demographics is crazy, crazy how I go from like middle school age all the way up to 80-year-olds that like I remind them of when they took chemistry years ago. But my favorite, my favorite are when I get the young adults that message me and share with me. And one of my favorite stories, I did a live stream chemical chem science show. And at the end, I would do this like little trivia where people that would participate, the winner would get a prize. And you know, I told them message me on Instagram and I'll send you the prize. So it's one particular person messaged me on Instagram, a young, a young college student, and she shared with me how uh I've been very inspiring to her. And her story that she shared was very similar to my story of not feeling like she belonged in the space, but I'm giving her that confidence. And what's crazy is that we didn't really like connect, connect, like where we're messaging every day because obviously I'm super busy, but I want to connect as much as I can with people that need me, right? But she was just one of these that, like every semester, she would message me and share with me her STEM grades. And I'm this is it. This is this is exactly who I want to be to these people. I want to be that I'm sitting in the stands. Good job. And then she shared with me that, you know, going into her last years of college, she got some research opportunities. And then I think it was this December, she messaged me and shared she's finished, like she's graduating. And like it's almost like my own kid graduated, right? Like I couldn't be prouder. I'm so happy that I could be part of her cheer squad. And part of that, you know, that support that I think many young people don't necessarily get, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. Yeah. The fact that you are genuine in wanting to hear from folks and wanting to support, wanting to be that cheerleader, wanting to praise. I feel like I not to be cynical, but I feel like some folks might say, yes, of course. Please share with me or please uh let me know. And and I'm sure they mean it, but to know that you are there genuinely, candidly, like, I want this for you. I'm here to support you. I'm sure that means a lot to people.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, you know, I I think, you know, we we sometimes assume that, oh, they're in STEM. So they must, you know, have a great home support or great family support for them to get to being a STEM student. But I've seen through the years there's a good population, especially if they're starting in community college and state college. There's a good population of students. And this might be shocking to hear that have families that don't want those kids to go to college. You know, they need them in the workforce right away to support the family or, you know, to take care of maybe some elderly people in their family. And it's a struggle for those kids. And this is, you know, to have support is so important for success of anyone, right? You can't do it alone. You can't. And I want to I want to be there for the students that reach out. Absolutely. I'm never gonna turn a student away if they're if they're you know seeking chemical chem.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, of course. And and I'm just kind of reflecting on not to not to say it's a one-to-one, but on my experience. I went to a large public university for undergrad, and I was in culling halls, for lack of a better way to put it, two, three hundred students in these general biology, chemistry, bi physics, statistics courses. And it's like that's uh that's a huge university. There are tens of thousands of people there. I in some respects, I get it. But part of the point is to uh be tough on these students and say, hey, if you can't cut it, maybe you shouldn't be here. And uh I I'm here and that's one thing, but I'm sure there's a lot of students, a lot of folks out there who would have been great scientists, would have been great researchers or something in the STEM field, and because of that initial experience, yeah, just aren't here right now.
SPEAKER_02I'm so glad you're mentioning this because I have had many conversations with people that teach chemistry across the world, and they've messaged me as well. And some of the concerns I do get, and you may even people may be even listening to this right now, thinking that like, is she holding students to the standard of chemistry? Right? Is she dumbing down chemistry? Like, is this why we're putting out a world of students today that just have no knowledge of science? Yeah, and honest, I want to prepare the Students that want to go into STEM. I'm not saying I want to toughen them up, but I want them to recognize what skills they need to go forward. You know, I in no way believe this idea of dumbing down in any way, but I do believe in making it accessible.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_02There's a difference, right? There's a huge, huge difference. And you know, when you know what that you're speaking of is very generic to across the country, across the world of that first general chemistry experience. And I make it very clear to my students that are taking my intro to chemistry to the next step, which is general chemistry. This is what you have to be prepared with. These are the tools you need to succeed in general chemistry. And I will put that stop sign up if they don't have it. But it doesn't mean they can't pass the stop sign. It means like, let's look at what you don't have and let's get it. You can get it, but don't go forward yet. Right.
SPEAKER_05I I love the imagery of treating it like a stop sign versus a roadblock, let's say. It's not to say that you cannot pass. It is to say you might need to learn a little bit more or think about a different way or different skills. So it might just be a pause. And I think that's a that's a great way to think about it. That I feel like a lot of folks, perhaps myself included, didn't really think about it that way.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Yeah. It shouldn't be a badge of honor if you're a professor that says, like, oh, 20% of my students failed Gen Chem, you know. Now, mind you, like, yes, I do recognize there are that population of students that just are not applying themselves, but that's another discussion, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah. On this idea, though, of kind of tailoring messages to audiences and having a very broad audience, you're talking more in the classroom about there are all sorts of different students with different backgrounds and different uh learning behaviors. I mean communications. We're always thinking about tailoring our message to the audience. But on your outreach and kind of social media side, you reach a very broad demographic of people. How do you figure out what stuff to share, what things to talk about to try to target this really broad audience?
SPEAKER_02Honestly, and this is my encouragement to anyone that is looking at doing what I'm doing on social media, pay attention to your community, right? I mean, out of obviously going out and you know doing science outreach in the community, but also my community are my students. And being that I do teach very beginning level chemistry, I have the opportunity to listen to them. And not just listen to them, but I also really make it hopefully very comfortable for them to share with me anything, knowing that this is a judgment-free zone. You do not need to sound like Einstein or Marie Curie to be in the space of Chemical Kim's science class, right? So I hear really odd questions, everything from ready for this. So I think if you are a chemistry teacher or had had chemistry, you probably know about acid-base indicators, right? And one of the best home activities for acid-base indicators is red cabbage juice because of the athrocyanins, right? You can pull those out and can go through that color change, whether it's in the acidic environment or basic environment. I did this with my students, very beginning level chemistry students. And I had a student that said, Will this work as a pregnancy test? And mind you, like that question could get so laughed at and so judged. I appreciated her question so much because it gives me that grounding that this is the level of my audience, so that as I get the questions, I can say, okay, this is this is what I need to answer in a way that someone that would ask such a question can understand it. And um, I also have to kind of give a shout out to my my wife too, because boy, does she have to put up a lot? She she's not a science major, she's she's so much on the other side. She's creative, photographer, um, just we're in two different spectrums. And I get the opportunity, and she's so patient with me to share my scripts. And I'll share a script and I'll say, Did you understand the science? And it's really adorable because sometimes, you know, I'll get into like, oh my gosh, did you hear about this, you know, new article that got posted? And when I explain it to my wife, you know, I'll be breaking it down. And I kid you not, she'll turn to me and she'll be like, Can you just make a chemical chem science video and then I'll watch it?
SPEAKER_05I mean, that's that's a good that's a good outlet for it. I feel like my partner sometimes goes through the same thing. And if I had that type of an outlet, she might be more receptive uh to some of my interest areas. Uh you you you mentioned your wife, and I'm sure there are many people who look up to you and who are inspired by you, but is there anyone that you admire? Anyone who inspires you either professionally or personally?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yeah. Okay, this sound this is this is gonna be so probably off the norm. I mean, you should be like, you know, some Nobel Prize laureate. And I greatly have always admired my my high school chemistry teacher, right, from day one. But today, in this moment, the people I admire the most are my children. You know, having the four kids, they're now young adults and incredibly successful young adults. I'm gonna be that bragging mom. And I really do credit the fact that I think that they witnessed their own parent being very passionate about something and having such joy throughout my life and my kids seeing the joy that science has brought to me. But it's not about them going into science to get that same joy, it's about going into something that they can provide to their own community because you're, you know, you have that happiness, that happiness is contagious, and the people around you are going to be happy. And I admire that my kids have continued that journey. You know, my youngest daughter is still in college, but pursuing a career in the medical field, and she has already gotten her feet wet, jumping into working in the hospitals and loves it. And I know that she has found a place for her, right? My next child is a firefighter. And when she was a young kid, she was like, Mom, when I get older, I want to be a firefighter. It was always itching at her, and she went for it and she rocks it. She's such an awesome first responder. And then my son, who is always been that gamer, just enjoys computers, now is working as a computer information system software guy that is also on the side working on creating his own game because he just loves that community. And I'm I love to see that. And then my oldest daughter, I know it's a long story, but my oldest daughter, one of my favorite stories with her, driving to school, she was probably like 12 or 13, and I'm super busy as a mom, right? My oldest is 13, my youngest is what, like six, four kids getting them to school, getting me to school. And Robin, my oldest, turns to me and she's like, Mom, and I'm like, what, Robin? She's like, I know what I want to do when I get older. And I'm like, oh, okay, we'll have this talk now. I'm like, sure, what what do you want to do when you get older, Robin? And she's like, I want to be a chemistry teacher. And I was like, oh, wow. Like, I this smile in my little heart. And I'm like, oh, that's really sweet. Why do you say that? And she's like, because I see how happy it makes you. And mind you, like, I don't want her to do something that makes me happy. I want it, of course, you know, but that was like that that sense of like, wow, I'm doing the right thing, right? And come full circle. She will be starting into her seventh year as a high school chemistry teacher. And probably it's like, you know, that Frankenstein effect. I have created a monster. She's incredible, like, incredible as a chemistry teacher. And anyone that works with her in the school district will reiterate what I'm saying. I'm not just being that breaking mom. She's a really, really good teacher. And that to me, like, I how can you not admire those kids, right?
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I I love that so much. Like hearing about your kids, especially Robin, uh, the the chemistry connection and of her seeing you and choosing her future in part. Obviously, she loves it, but in part because she has you as an example. We are chatting here today, at least in part because it is ACS's 150th anniversary, and we are as uh as a scientific society looking back uh 150 years, which is a wild thing, but also really looking forward. And I kind of want to just round out today by asking you uh what are you looking forward to in the sciences for you professionally, personally, just interested kind of what do you see for yourself, for chemistry as we move into the next years, decades, maybe even beyond?
SPEAKER_02So, for me, in terms of my next step in this journey as a chemistry educator is to really inspire and help grow the STEM educators, as we've seen through the and I've seen through the years, we have such a fallout. We're we're in such a dire need to get more chemistry teachers in the classroom. And, you know, my hope is to make a difference in that because you know, it's not a high-paying career. So any help and any any way we can get more educators in the classroom, I want to be a part of that. But as a community of chemists as a whole, the celebration of 150 is so exciting, so exciting. You know, just knowing my journey and seeing, you know, especially at the meetings that we have, seeing the young students on their their beginning of their, you know, journey. It's just exciting to meet them and and talking with them. And, you know, I I that's my favorite thing to do at the meetings. But, you know, my optimism, and I don't really put this because of social media, because I don't think social media has really done a great job with this, but my optimism, of course, is to have more voices in the space, more diversity in the space. Um, I really do think there are so many underrepresented communities that we don't have in chemistry. I have hope as the meetings have through the years, you know, of seeing more new faces in our space of chemistry and seeing that people do feel more of a belonging. But I think we can do a better job, especially as educators and as chemists in in the American Chemical Society. And what I mean by a better job, a better job in communicating, better job in sharing what we do. I honestly don't think too many people in the general public know the amazing things that the members of the American Chemical Society are doing on a day-to-day basis. And what a disservice for them not to know. What, you know, for them not to know the discoveries, for them not to know the research, for them not to know the hopes in medicine and the hopes in, you know, elder care and the hopes in a better, more earth-caring world that we're trying to create as chemists, right? In the American Chemical Society. So many people don't know. I mean, I know, you know, because we read the articles, we get the magazines, but that that circle is so small, we need to widen it. We need to grow that. So, my hope in the future and my optimism is that we're going to do that, right? We're going to, and again, I'm not putting hope in that social media because the algorithms can be messy with getting our our voices out there. Because honestly, I will shout out to the to the video group and the social media group at the American Chemical Society because their content is incredible. If you're not following the American Chemical Society on socials, you are missing out. They do such an amazing job breaking down the articles that are coming, the new researches that are coming to a level that everyone can understand, right? And if more chemists could get on board with doing that kind of communication, that would be fantastic. And not just that, bring in some sciences, more discussions in the sciences in these communities that are not represented. That's my hope. That's my want for the future.
SPEAKER_04Shane, that was such a good interview and a really great way to conclude this ACS 150th celebration, but I am a little jealous I didn't get to chat with her, not gonna lie.
SPEAKER_05No, I I I totally get it. It's not often that I get the chance to chat with someone who's not only incredibly successful and awe-inspiring, but also just genuinely so down-to-earth and easy to talk to.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Um, if you don't watch her on the socials, I would get on that. And you can catch her on Instagram, TikTok, YouTube at ChemicalKim. Uh, and she breaks down cool chemistry concepts in a way that even a biologist like me can understand.
SPEAKER_05I mean, me too, frankly. Well, thanks again to Kim, and thank you, Marg, and everyone else with Chain Reaction for welcoming me in for this special series.
SPEAKER_04Of course. Yeah, it was a pleasure. Um, and we don't have to say goodbye yet because in a couple of weeks you'll be back for a bonus episode.
SPEAKER_05Oh, right. I almost forgot. How could I? So we are going to be talking about some extremely interesting past ACS presidents.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, like the guy behind the poison squad experiments at the turn of the 20th century.
SPEAKER_05I I love how you're just not going to give any more context of what that means.
SPEAKER_04No context. You have to listen. So that's coming up in a couple of weeks on Chain Reaction. This was Chain Reaction, a podcast by the American Chemical Society. Our executive producer is Sam Jones. Our producer is me, Margot Wall. This miniseries was also produced by Shane Hanlon in partnership with Brand Lab. Production help from Michael David and Matt Radcliffe. Theme song by Dee Peter Schmidt.