A Catholic Director in Hollywood Who Won't Preach at You

🎬 Evan Matthews never knew his father. When he finally met him at 37, cancer took him six months later. That story of loss, forgiveness, and healing is the same emotional DNA that made Evan the perfect director for Motherland, a film he landed after a tear-filled sushi lunch turned into the pitch of a lifetime.

On this episode of The LIVing Room, Liv Harrison sits down with Evan to talk about making films during the Hollywood strikes, why Catholic art should never be preachy, his six-year streak of 3 AM rosaries and gym sessions, and the books that brought him back to the faith. This one's for you if you've ever felt called to create something bigger than yourself but didn't know where to start.

⭐️ Guest Bio:

Evan Matthews is a Catholic filmmaker and director based in Los Angeles. He directed his debut feature film Motherland, produced by MPI Original Films, which premiered at the Napa Institute Arts Festival and is available on Amazon. Evan is currently in development on a biopic about a prominent Catholic figure and is a regular presence at the Napa Institute, where he advocates for excellence in Catholic art and filmmaking.

Transcript

SPEAKER_02 0:00

I never knew my father. Here's the opposite side of that scenario where you do meet him, and something beautiful could really come of it. Because I ended up doing that when I was 37 years old, and then he got cancer and died six months later. I even had that little brief window of time with him, and I can't get that back. I gotta make sure I am disciplined and unbreakable and a fearless leader, but also how can I be that as a director? If I'm in charge of a 200-person crew, like this warrior poet priest that's leading everyone to make this great piece of creative work. I was sharing all the years of infertility with me and my wife, all the many miscarriages we've had, and all the suffering that she's been through. All of a sudden, we're like, we're crying at lunch. It's supposed to be a medium to bring people together, get them in the dark cave, and this is your one light to all sit around and share stories, and then be moved and inspired, and take that out into the world and create new memories and see yourself in a new way.

SPEAKER_00 1:25

100%. And that's the whole point of this show, the living room, which is like we're just hanging out talking in the living room and we're just having a conversation, and we're gonna talk about real things instead of just like, so you're a director, you know, which isn't bad. I love that you are, but you're a lot more than that. Although, you know, I don't know if you know that of him. But I mean, I met you, I met you this summer um at Napa or this past summer, right? In uh 2025. Which you shouldn't date things. So I'm already crushing the podcast. But I'm I'm at you.

SPEAKER_02 2:02

Yeah, I I didn't wear my St. Patrick's Day shirt because I didn't want to date date the episode. But now we're telling everybody. Oh, it's a couple of two weeks. I'm like, I have my I have my green. And my wife's like, you can't you can't do that. And I was like, I do look like a walking green screen in this thing.

SPEAKER_00 2:17

It's just yeah, that's funny. That's I didn't even think about the green screen thing. You're just a floating head.

SPEAKER_02 2:24

There's a floating head. I know I mentioned to McKenzie like in the emails, like, oh, St. Patrick's Day, it'll be so fun. And then I was like, Oh, wait, hold on. No, this will be a dated episode.

SPEAKER_00 2:33

Yeah, we have no dates here. It is 2035 when we're filming this. So no, I'm the future. It is the future, run.

SPEAKER_02 2:40

Everything is still bad if you listen to the new Everyone in Office Today is still there.

SPEAKER_00 2:47

Anyway, um, that would be crazy. That's your next movie. You're welcome.

SPEAKER_02 2:52

I just thought they it's called They Won't Die. That's what the I love that.

SPEAKER_00 2:58

That's all they won't die. So um, so I met you in 2025 in the summer. There's a great Catholic, I don't even know what to call it. I mean, is it a conference? Is it a festival? Is it both? Is it I don't, you know, it's a it's a meeting, it's an institute, but it's the Napa Institute.

SPEAKER_02 3:18

Right, it's like their big conference. It's really it's a conference, it really is because you have all the different talkers and the panels you can go to, right? And then the dinners and it's all fun. But it was unique this past year because it was the first time they had the arts portion. Yes. So it's the Napa Institute Arts Festival, which kicked off, which was a great lead-in for the Summer Institute big conference that they do every year.

SPEAKER_00 3:42

Yeah. And it's kind of the the who's who. There's a lot of big name people, then there's people like me who actually bought a ticket. I think I'm one of the only people that bought a ticket. Everybody else is like, my business boss.

SPEAKER_02 3:55

There, you could contribute way too much.

SPEAKER_00 3:58

You know, like it was like, but I wanted I've been wanting to go to Napa for a really long time. Um, I've heard about it for such a long time. Had you heard about it before the arts festival piece, or was that your first introduction to Napa Institute?

SPEAKER_02 4:13

I had heard about the Institute for a few years. I'm like, oh, I really want to go. I don't know much about it. I don't know who's been. And then my brother, he's he's he's super Catholic too. And uh I reverted back to the faith after him, like several years after him. So he was all dialed in and plugged in and like knew everybody and what's what and who's who. So I've always been playing from behind. He's like, Oh yeah, Map Institute. I know these people, these people who run it, I know the president, blah, blah, blah. Well, of course you do. Uh so uh, which is great. He's been an awesome resource. So finally, I'm like, hey, Eric, I get to go. This is awesome. He's like, I've never been. It's like, finally, I have my I get to beat you with some Catholicness.

SPEAKER_00 4:54

I love the brother and my Catholicness. Who's older out of the two of you?

SPEAKER_02 4:58

Who's the I am two minutes older?

SPEAKER_00 5:02

Oh, he's your twin brother. Did I my twin?

SPEAKER_02 5:04

Oh, I forget to tell people that's hilarious.

SPEAKER_00 5:07

Otherwise, your mom is really magical.

SPEAKER_02 5:12

Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

So your twin brother. Are y'all identical twins?

SPEAKER_02 5:17

We are, and we only found that out in like several years ago. Because we always thought we were fraternal twins, like like the low rent version of twins is how we kind of like looked at ourselves. And then we did like the DNA testing because we're trying to find like relatives and just for for fun. And then we found they came back, you're like, you're DNA identical, you're identical twins. We're like, What? My mom was like, Well, it was the 80s, we didn't really have the technology to know, we just kind of guessed. It's that's crazy. Okay, great.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

So I have a set now.

SPEAKER_02 5:46

We're the fan. Now we're the fancy kind.

SPEAKER_00 5:48

You are the fancy kind, you're like the real, you're like the real kind. Um, you're not the fake twins, but like I have a I have a set of twin cousins. I've got I'm one of 58 first cousins. Okay, so we're a big family. My mom's actually a twin, but her twin is a boy, so Ricky and Vicky. Isn't that cute? Um cute, but I have a set of twin cousins, and they look identical. They look identical, but they actually are fraternal, which I heard and found out that Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen are actually fraternal twins. So, same with my cousins, Rachel Rochelle. I don't know if that's true. Is that true? Do you know Mary Kate and Ashley?

SPEAKER_02 6:28

I don't trust any of these doctors. They're getting it all wrong for you. They're ruining it for twins everywhere. We haven't figured it out yet.

SPEAKER_00 6:34

I know, I know. Well, anyway, so you're the smart older brother. That's what I've heard. And um, and so you make it to Napa. And this is where I got to see this amazing. Like, I love that you have the poster in the back of your film that was now it didn't premiere, I know there it is. It didn't premiere at Napa, but we got to watch a screening of it um when we were there, and I went to it, and I was such a creeper after I was telling this to everybody that's in this room right now. I was like, Yo, I went up to Evan and was like, I have so many feelings. I was like, I have to tell him all the things about this film. It it is spectacular. Like I'm not gonna say was because it is, it is an extraordinary film. I told you that day, and when I saw it, it's incredible. Like it is just so cool, and I gotta know something. How did you get involved in the project of the film Motherland? How did you land the directing role? Like, because I've told everyone that you wrote it, you star in it, you produced it, you're the craft service guy. Like, according to me, your best grip.

SPEAKER_02 7:44

Like you're you're everything. That's so funny.

SPEAKER_00 7:49

So, how did you get involved?

SPEAKER_02 7:50

Yeah, I wish we could take the credit. Well, it kind of goes back a little bit. So the production company, MPI original films, they have a talent incubator arm where they are developing uh people that kind of fit the like what they're looking for with like their profile and filmmakers they want to work with and give people a chance that haven't maybe made their first feature yet. So I've been doing their workshops and different labs that they had for like years, just staying friends with them, staying in front of them. And one of the scripts that went through their uh screenwriting workshop was Motherland, and they were and they were green lighting and they were looking for directors. And I met with uh Lana Link, who's also at the National I met her, she's amazing. She's amazing. She runs the the the arts festival there uh uh with John Blanford. And yeah, we just were having a lunch just to catch up, and our it wasn't a typical Hollywood lunch meeting where it's usually very surface level and everyone has really great intentions of working together one day and then nothing happens. But we started talking, she made a comment about you know not ever like meeting or knowing her dad, and and I never knew my father, and I told her, I was like, Look, here's the opposite side of that scenario where you do meet him, and something beautiful could really come of it. Because I ended up doing that uh when I was 37 years old, and then he got cancer and died six months later, and I'm just so thankful I even had that little brief window of time with him, and I can't get that back, and there's like so much love and forgiveness that happened there. So that's like how our meeting started.

SPEAKER_00 9:28

I love that you just drift through it.

SPEAKER_02 9:30

You're like, I didn't have a dad, met my dad, did like you're just like well, it was very much like leaning in because we're like talking, we're having sushi, we're having like this very like deep conversation, and then we started talking about uh like her being a mom and in my children. I was sharing all the years of infertility with me and my wife, and all the many miscarriages we've had, and all the suffering that she's been through, and holding her hand through all of that, and you know, all of a sudden we're like we're crying at lunch, and uh, and it's just it's like a it's like a Monday, and I leave and she leaves, and we're we're both like going back to work. We're like, Well, this just this happened, okay. Well, this was great, it was so wonderful catching up with each other. But she texts me the next day. She goes, Evan, I can't believe I didn't think to bring this up, but we just greenlit the script Motherland, and there's so many parts of your story that you shared with me that are in this movie in some form or another. You know, we've already heard from all the directors that we're considering, but we're making a decision at the end of the week. Can you pitch it this week if you like the script? I said, Yeah, sure, send it. So I read it Tuesday night, did my notes, read it again Wednesday morning, texted her back, yes, I want to pitch it. She's like, Great, can you pitch it on Friday? I'm like, oh wow, okay, sure. She's like, just show up. You don't have to do a pitch deck, just like I know it's short notice, just come to the meeting. So I go to it, it was a Zoom meeting. So I was surprised. I thought it was gonna be in person because I'm like, oh, just get me in the room and I'm just gonna kill. It's gonna be great. Just feed off everyone's energy. And I was like, oh no, it's Zoom, okay. So I have to bring like that YouTube energy. I'm like, oh, gotta like br really bring it and be on, like be extra on. So I'm like, okay, I gotta transfer that energy through the screen. Like, they have to be able to cat feel the emotions and catch the feels of what uh what I'm gonna tell them, which was uh which was pretty much what I went through with Lana in our lunch meeting. So I figured, okay, this pitch is going to be 80% personal, who you're getting, who's Evan Matthews, why is he the perfect director for this movie based on the life experiences I've had, the obstacles I've overcome, and of course my entertainment history and background. And then it's like 20% was pitching the movie and going through like the pitch deck I did put together, and and you taking quotes from Nicole's script and and creating scenes and then talking about all the different departments because a lot of the stuff you realize is going to change as you get into pre-production. Like you're you have these great ideas, you're you're really trying to demonstrate you've thought this through. I know where I want to go, I know like the flavor and the mood and the vibe and what you're going for, and that I want to deliver a prestige film for you guys. I know that's what you've been in the hunt for with your production company. I'm the one that's gonna give it to you. So uh, so we're wrapping up the call. It went really well. I was like sweating through all my clothes, and they said uh uh one of the producers said, Hey Evan, that was so great. That was so great. Um, one of the producers couldn't be here. Could you possibly pitch this again on Monday? I was just like, Oh, sure. Absolutely. So it was so I was like, oh wow, this is crazy. So Monday, I do the same thing again. It was like 95% of the energy is sure because it was a little bit neater and dialed in, and it wasn't as like I'm your guy. Uh and then pitched it. I felt good about it. I got off, and then Lana texted me, hey, we have three more questions we need to clarify because you mentioned these things. So I had a question about the the changes I wanted to make to the make to the scripts. I cleared that up. They were on board, talked about production design and some colors that they were thinking I was thinking. So we cleared that up because I knew that could possibly change too. And then the third question was, Do you want to direct this movie? And I was just like, Oh wow. Oh, they totally got me.

SPEAKER_00 13:21

I love that I'm shocked. I'm like, You got it. I got it.

SPEAKER_02 13:25

Can you I'm gonna go make this movie now?

SPEAKER_00 13:27

Congratulations.

SPEAKER_02 13:29

Oh, it was so crazy. They got me. I had like the French single French tier, like bouncing just like coming down. I was like, You got the Denzel Washington tier? Really? From glory. Yes, that's it. I was waiting, I was like, I get it now. It's me. This is my glory moment.

SPEAKER_00 13:44

I love that. That's incredible. So that's and was it already cast?

SPEAKER_02 13:48

That's how I got Motherland.

SPEAKER_00 13:49

That's how you got Motherland. Was it already cast when you got it?

SPEAKER_02 13:52

Like, no, not at all. Actually, it was the opposite of how something could be cast because we were making this movie during the writer's strike and the actor's strike.

SPEAKER_00 14:01

So you guys planned that really well. Y'all really thought that through.

SPEAKER_02 14:06

It was so it was crazy. Like, can you imagine it's already hard enough to make a film, but then you have two major unions striking and they're like going up against the studios that have no chance to go up against. It's just like, and then you have to everyone's politicking in different ways with how they might want to use this film as a carrot to dangle for another job they want, or or they want to sit on it because we're a bunch of scabs because we're making a movie during the strikes, and so you don't know who's where, and no one's playing with their cards up, really. So you gotta just it was quite a situation to navigate, but we we did okay.

SPEAKER_00 14:41

You did more than okay. The film is beautiful. I told you specific things because I wanted you to know it wasn't just fangirling and like blowing smoke everywhere, but there were very specific moments in that film that I was like, okay, and this and this, your choice here was amazing, and I love that you chose this, and like, you know, you did it from this way, and uh I not to you know ruin the movie or anything because I'm not going to, but there's a a scene that I was I went up to you afterwards, I was like, There's a scene where she's sitting in the hallway, and that just really spoke to me. And the way that you came at that was just so brilliant in my mind, the way that you just filmed all of that, and I just I loved it. But um, but I gotta ask, so here you are, you're you're a Catholic in Hollywood, right? And you're not just kind of a Catholic, you're like a super Catholic with like a cape.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Like you have like oh, I worship.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

Well, I think you have a super Catholic cape.

SPEAKER_02 15:38

And I'm trying, I'm trying to be a good boy.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

You are, you are, and your wife is lovely, and your children are just scrumptious, and you know, and so here you are, and you're you're living this very Catholic life, but this isn't a quote unquote Catholic film. This isn't a quote unquote Christian movie, you know. It's not, I mean, or is it, and I'm wrong. I mean, because I felt like it was presented in a that it's a secular kind of film, like you know, it's on Amazon, you know, and it's it's it's out there in the in the wild. I mean, do you consider this a Christian Catholic film?

SPEAKER_02 16:14

Well, to me, I mean, part of what I connect to the film with are those those those Catholic values that I have are deeply embedded under the surface of it's it's really the backbone of the movie for me. Because I'm gonna have to have that why. Why am I gonna wake up every single day? And the first thing I think about is this movie and how I can better do better for it and further into the world and use it as a source of good for people. Um, but you know, my goal as a filmmaker is is never to be preachy or give someone their lesson of the day, because we get so much of that in movies. I look I absolutely loathe it. Unless you know you're going to this very niche group and it's just gonna live in that niche group and just be there, yeah, then it's not a movie. I was setting out to like then it's a movie, fine. But I'm I'm setting out to make a film, which is what you said afterwards. Like, you didn't make a movie, you made a film. And I was like, you get it, thank you. Yes, because you know, I think what's yeah, there's a difference and it what's great. What I'm trying to do is make a convincing argument, and you have to have a formidable opponent for wherever you're going with the story, like who's your hero and why, and what is she up against, and how is she gonna wrestle with the ideas of the movie? And all your different characters represent different uh I idea ways they see this world for good or for bad, and what their motivations are behind why they think or feel or behave certain ways in the film. So, you know, I I don't want to make any straw man arguments in there. It's like it has to feel real, and when you're really wrestling with big ideas like Motherland does, I never want to tip my hat about how I actually feel about anything because I don't want that to influence the movie. Because as soon as someone sniffs something out that I might have a bias somewhere, then their walls go up, and they're like, oh, this movie's about this because this person feels this way, or he's expressed that in this film uh in some not so subtle way. Because, you know, and and we don't like that. We don't want to go to the movies and all of a sudden we get we're on defense and we feel like okay, I'm waiting for the ball the other shoe to drop, and there there it goes. I'm getting my my ideological lesson of the day from this this group over here, and we don't want that. So, and I don't want that for movies. I want people to say, I don't know what to think or where this is going. I actually have to use critical thinking and figure this movie out for myself.

SPEAKER_00 18:40

Well, then you accomplished that. I mean, I was on the edge. I was, I was like, I I just I I have to say thank you because I spend a lot of time. I am a I'm a Netflix expert, um, you know, in all things documentaries, and I could probably save, you know, everyone from all the things now because I've watched every Netflix documentary. And what is so exciting about you know, these documentary is kind of having its moment right now, in a way, you know, you're having these films that are or that are just like these true crime or these real life or whatever. And Motherland steps into that space, you know what I mean? Like it's such a real person story. I mean this as hopefully this is coming off as a as a compliment, but it's such a real relatable human story that it feels like you're watching like true crime or whatever, you know, where you're like, do they get the guy? Like, you know, or whatever it is at the end, you're on the edge of your seat. You're you you really get, you know, like I felt like I was so like involved with the characters, and and I you're rooting for them, and you're you know, you're you're you forget that you're watching a movie, you know, you you really do. Great, you know, I mean, it is a film. And so I have to ask, like, is it something that you're specifically doing with your gift and talent as a director, as a creative, to stay true to your Catholicism, but to produce secular work? You know, like, are you wanting, like, if I said to you, hey, I've got a great Catholic movie about St. Maria Garetti, do you want to direct it? Are you interested in that kind of work as well? Or do you find yourself wanting to stay? I mean, do you have to choose a Hollywood path? Or does that make sense? Like the Angel Studios path or the Hollywood path.

SPEAKER_02 20:35

No, it's it's it's interesting because I was uh approached recently for a biopic for a prominent Catholic figure uh right now. And uh part of my pitch to the producer is like, look, again, I want to you want to cast the biggest net pot as possible, you want to reach as many eyeballs as possible. There's a way to make the movie so you service the Catholic audience, your core audience, but also make it available to the rest of the world. And if it's about a very famous priest, it's like, well, he has to go through so much. If he's a modern day Saint Augustine, like take him through that journey, and we have to figure out where his deepest wound in healing has to take place. And it's like it has to be between him and his mother because he's gonna be dedicating his life to the Blessed Virgin. And the priesthood is gonna be like the last five minutes of the movie. So everyone's getting a very human character, everyone else in the Catholic world knows where this is going. Other people do not know where it's going, but you have to make it believable and root it in in humanity with incredible performances so people can drop their guard and go on the ride.

SPEAKER_01 21:45

I love it.

SPEAKER_02 21:46

And then also connect to it and feel so so you know, so that I mean there's some conversations happening with that right now, and we'll see what happens because they have to be on board for that. That's like a risky thing to do, because like, oh no, he's so famous for being a priest. I'm like, yeah, but there's a way to do this, and to do it. Just do it right, because like I look, we all know St. Augustine had a wild life, but we don't all have to experience that again. It's like, okay, that was in his past. But we there's a way to do it and make it about the biggest relationships and how he's like wounded his parents and especially his mother. I'm like, let's let's work through that. So I'm so I'm open to it, to um Catholic stories, but I'll always have the same approach. I'm like, let's show both sides. I want to keep the audience guessing. Will he will he or will he not become a priest in the end? Yeah, how can this guy be so bad and then and then all of a sudden go for the ultimate good? Uh so that's one side of it, but you also you know, being a Catholic and uh like with with Motherland, you're you're in that habit or the practice of being in service of something greater than yourself and always wanting to serve others. And when I look at the movie, like how can I be in great ultimate service? How can I cover this movie in prayer? How can I make this movie dedicated to the Blessed Virgin and and and honor her in a way? And so there's all there's like it you if you've like rewatched the movie, there's like in the midpoint, I give you like some Catholic Easter eggs in there, and it's like if you pick it up, you do, if you don't, it's okay, I'll tell you in a podcast. But but uh, but you know, it I I I find I find my way to put it in there, so I'm always like that's what I'm aiming for.

SPEAKER_01 23:25

And I love that, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 23:26

And also like being a Catholic, like in Hollywood and on set, I'm not there to preach to anybody, I'm there to attract people to like what I'm doing right in my life. So all of us Catholics, we're out in the world representing Catholic Catholicism. So we better be that, we better be that big bright light for people in their lives. It's like, how can I be that as a director? If I'm in charge of a 200-person crew, like how can I I gotta make sure I am disciplined and unbreakable and a fearless leader, but also like this warrior, poet, priest that's leading everyone to make this great piece of creative work. And uh so you know, and then and and because of that, and also because because we're Catholic, and we one of my big moments of coming back to the faith, I was reading my way in, and it was reading the lives of the saints, and all the stories were there were so attractive. So I I my faith came last. It was a lot of like history and research and science and the stories of the saints and the lives of the saints. And I think a lot of people will put even just Bible characters up on a pedestal and not treat them like the human beings that they actually were and that they actually existed. So when you're tapping back into the humanity, you're like connecting with the Bible and its characters and the saints on such a deep level, and then you take that that human empathy that's really heightened, and I start applying that to my cast and my crew, and everyone's a person, and everybody matters, and I know everybody's names, and me and the actors are really trying to work on what's the best version of this movie and what's the best version of the scene and this line. It's not about me and my ego, it's all about being in service to the film, what is getting us the best movie in the end. This isn't about me. I know the buck stops with me, but I want us all to win because it this movie is going to represent everybody working on it. So there's a long-winded way to say, uh, you know, I just you're open to it. I just I'm a people person, I just want to connect with them.

SPEAKER_00 25:29

No, but here's what's here's what I admire about you is that um, you know, we've connected on Instagram, and so following you on Instagram, I see you every day. According to me, again, I make up your life. Um, you sleep 30 minutes and you feel like sometimes I don't know how you do it because every day you post getting up at like 3 a.m. You make your coffee, you you say a rosary, you always have a quote, and you go work out. Okay, so so far we have nothing in common. I need to do all the things that you're doing. I need you to run my life. Everybody drinks coffee. I need you to give me a schedule of how I need to run my life. But I mean, the fact that you get up that early every day, you get up pretty early. You get up like around three or four, like I don't know. It seems to come around that time every day. And yes, and you don't, like you said, it's not that you put it out loud, you don't then look at the camera and say, I am now praying my rosary, you know, and then in the name of the father. Like, you don't do that. You like subtly, like a director, you know, just kind of place it there, you know, and let it speak for itself. But you've made that decision to do that publicly, you know, so people do know if they go to your Instagram or whatever, if they're following you, they're gonna know, okay, well, either this guy really likes those beads or that means something to him. And it's enough. And how do you make that that conscious decision that I'm gonna show that I lead my life with prayer? I start my day with prayer every day, and you know, and respecting my body, you know, by by taking care of it. Like those are two really big pieces. Um, and so how do you decide that you're gonna share that publicly with everyone? Because I really admire that.

SPEAKER_02 27:18

Well, I when I first started doing it, it's honestly just for my own personal accountability. I'm like, I don't know, I don't think anyone will ever see this. I can't treat it that way because I'll just freak myself out. I just need to do it saying I'm committing to starting something. And it was about six years ago when I started doing this. Like next month it'll be six years straight of like getting up between three and four and running this whole check-down routine for the day. So wow. Um, and it started when my uh second son was born. I was like, okay, and it was like right when COVID happened, and I thought either I'm gonna be I'm gonna beat this situation or it's gonna make me worse. So I'm just gonna double down. I'm gonna come out of this pandemic better than ever before. I looked at it as a time to just like go into my Batman cave and just do a bunch of push-ups until I can climb climb out of the pit. But I love that. Yeah, I just I just wanted the accountability, it was just to myself. I'm like, can I do this and just not break? And just can't so it's been like six years of not breaking. And this is all with the idea that these are the things and the habits and the discipline that I need to form mys form in myself to recreate myself to prepare for a potential directing job. Like acting as if if I'm a director and I'm on set, I need to be the best in all these areas of mind, body, and soul. And how how can I do this? I'm gonna do these things. And it's great. No, I I miss rosaries. Um, you know, I'm not perfect. I you know, there's like I like 10, 15 a year. I miss times a year. I might miss my rosary and that's amazing. Um, you know, I'm I'm go I go into the gym like five, six days a week, and uh, but I'm getting just in the weekends. I turn off my alarm, but my body's just so in tune with it. I'm still waking up at like you know, somewhere between three and four. Uh yeah, but it's been great. But then you know what happens, like you were saying, like I'm not there to declare, hey, look what I'm doing. It's it's it's very filmmaker friend filmmaker style of show, don't tell. So I'm just gonna show, and you'd be surprised who it attracts, and it starts conversations or people that's inspired to pray their rosary or start going back to the gym, or they just love the quotes and they want to buy the book books that I'm reading in whatever order I'm reading them. And I'm like, this is cool. You get like it's I don't have a lot of followers or anything, but it's like you have start to have like a little community of people you care about and they're invested in you, and you're invested in them, and it's it's a beautiful thing. So I don't see myself stopping anytime soon. I did it during the whole uh making of this movie, which was so fun because I was always the I was the because you think about film sets, they have really early days, and I remember it back in the beginning of my career as a production assistant. We'd have these crazy early call times, which would be like 5 a.m. or something, or you know, worst case scenario, 4 30 in the morning.

SPEAKER_01 30:05

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 30:05

But for me on our own set, I was like, easy. I'll have been up for like two or three hours already doing all this other stuff. So then people on set would start to slowly find my Instagram, and they would just be like, dude, what you do this every day, and then everyone's like talking to me on set, they're like, You're blowing our minds, man. What do you do? If like, and then you come to set and you beat everybody to set, and you're the first one there, and the last to leave is like, yeah, I'm just I don't all directors do this. I don't know. Like, I what do if they're not doing this?

SPEAKER_00 30:34

That's crazy. So, what time do you go to bed? That's the thing that I really want to know. That's what the public wants to know.

SPEAKER_02 30:39

That's probably my most asking.

SPEAKER_00 30:41

It's gotta be. It has to be. I mean, I know that that's the most basic, easy. I love that, but I have, I mean, I have no idea what time I'm thinking now. I'm thinking you're probably going to sleep after this interview.

SPEAKER_02 30:52

Yeah, it's 2 p.m. I'm gonna go have dinner.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

You're ready for your six.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

I'm on my grandparents, I'm on my grandma's schedule, pretty much. I you know, we I we put the kids down around 8 30 every night, and then I'm going to bed around 9 30, maybe 10 at the absolute latest.

SPEAKER_01 31:11

Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 31:12

And you know, then there's days where I have like networking events and I'm going out, like we did the whole Oscars thing um with uh with MPI original films, and they had a big party. I'm like, uh, you know, I'm gonna be out late. Yeah, and guess what? I'm gonna get up early anyway. I know it's harder, but we're supposed to do hard things. I'm like, I'm gonna go for it. Can't can I not break? Like, do all these things on and also not break and then also hopefully not get sick either.

SPEAKER_00 31:38

Yeah, seriously, Evan. So for Lent, what do you do? Do you add things like I should make myself eat chocolate like you're already living such a penitential life? But like, I'm gonna gain five pounds for Lent.

SPEAKER_02 31:56

That's so funny. No, my my favorite Lenten thing is what my mom gave up for Lent one year. She's like, I gave up the F-word this year. I'm like, what's gonna go on?

SPEAKER_00 32:07

Is that a hard thing for your mom? I I can't I'm they're from New Jersey. Oh, see, my dad's from Jersey. Okay, now I understand. All right, say say less. I understand.

SPEAKER_02 32:19

Yeah, for Lent, for Lent. I, you know, I uh one of my uh guilty pleasures is playing video games, and I'll usually play with my kids. But for Lent, we're like, okay, we're giving that up because it's like I maybe I can drop a bad habit and replace it with some good ones. So usually Lent, it's I gotta find that one thing that maybe I would be better off without in my life that might take up too much time. So this year I was like, okay, I'm gonna give up playing video games with the boys and we're gonna do that together, and then and then the other thing I do is I only play pray the sorrowful mysteries every day on my rosary. Really? So I'm really trying to put myself in the passion narrative for for all of Lent and Easter. And that's great because you know, there's some days where you pray in the rosary and you're kind of just you're going through it, maybe you're not connecting deeply, or you are you have you're in and out with it, but then you'll start having some prayer sessions where you're like the Google Earth version, like on the ground with Jesus, like experiencing it, and you're just like freaked out. This is really overwhelming and powerful and moving, and and it's just it's it's beautiful, but it also you start to really flex your creative muscles because you're starting to like look back through time and how was Mary experiencing this? What was it like for everybody else? What was it like for for the the apostles? And is it it's just it's it's it would it becomes like a real kind of amazing meditation. So that's cool. So that's so and that someone recommended that to me like five, six years ago, and then I've just did it ever since. I'm like, oh that's great, I need to do that. So that's that's been rewarding every lent.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

So yeah, yeah. I've I've never heard that.

SPEAKER_02 33:57

But I should I should gain weight next year. That was a good idea. For the rest of a seven, eat cheese, like just eat cheese every day. Eat a fringe. And with a wheel of cheese, I'm working down to the nub.

SPEAKER_00 34:13

Be like the the little people on the planet who are not little, but um, you make me want to know Mark Wahlberg so I can make y'all best friends, unless you're already best friends.

SPEAKER_02 34:22

But I feel like both work out together. And pray the rosary, pray up, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:27

Isn't that what he says? Like pray up, say prayed up, or whatever he says. Yeah, so I'm gonna work on that. I'm gonna try to become friends with Mark Wahlberg so you can be friends with Mark Wahlberg.

SPEAKER_02 34:37

That'd be cool. I'd love to just like act like I showed up at the same gym as him. There's another 4 a.m. dude here. Hey, what's your name?

SPEAKER_00 34:46

Yeah, start flexing, your rosary drops out. You're like, weird. It's like trying to meet a hot girl.

SPEAKER_02 34:53

That'd be so cool. It'd be cool to meet him one day. I'm sure he's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 34:56

I think y'all would have a lot more in common. I mean, I really do. He might need a friend. Who knows? I mean, how many people work out on Pray the Rosary every day? But um I don't know if I'm old. Not on my Instagram feed, it's just you.

SPEAKER_02 35:08

I hope people watch this and they start messaging. Well, I do I work out on Pray of the Rosary. I'm like, cool, send him over. We'll start group.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

That would be awesome. That would be amazing. Okay, I'll start the group. No, we all know that's not gonna happen.

SPEAKER_02 35:19

Um you need more stuff to do.

SPEAKER_00 35:24

So I gotta know, are you gonna be, are you gonna continue your Napa journey? Are you gonna be back there this summer? Or you gonna like now that you're in, are you are you in? Like, have we beat Eric all the way?

SPEAKER_02 35:36

That Eric's still got me beat. He's got he's got the he's got the big Catholic family and everything. But no, uh, I am where I was talking to Lana recently, and they're gonna do the arts festival again this year, which is really cool. So they're already starting to plan it out, and uh they're thinking about putting together a first-time filmmakers panel. So, you know, directing your first feature and what that's like. I'm like, that's great. People need to know because to make that that leap from short film, short film, how do I break through? What do what do I do? And then what let's say you get that first directing job. Like, what do you do on your first day? So, not just on set, but you got hired, you go into prep. What does that look like? So, you know, can't demystify it, give give Catholics the tools they need because you know, Catholics and the arts, like we gotta step it up. Yes, we need to have absolute excellence. Like, we set the standard for art on planet Earth, and it should, you know, it doesn't go away during the Renaissance and the Baroque. It's like it we should still be holding that down today. We should have the best music and the best choirs. I don't care if it's Latin Mass or Novus Ordo, it doesn't matter. We should be having the best music, the best paintings, the best film, the best art. It should be the best, best, best. Because if it's truly the best church and it's the one and only true Catholic church, like we got to flex everywhere we possibly can. So that's like that's why I'm trying to hold myself to like a better standard and try to do great pieces of work that are powerful and moving and make people think. It's like, yeah, it's got a back Catholic backbone spirit. If you read between the lines, you'll see the family values and things that like I I I challenge like listeners to go watch the movie and be like, Yes, oh, I see what he did there, I see what what stories he's pulling from and trying to try to bring these mirrors to the screen. Just like you have the uh like the prototypes of characters uh in the old testament that show up in the new. Like it I'm trying to do the same same thing uh in my work. So and you do it.

SPEAKER_00 37:32

So um yeah, for sure. And but that's what made it stand out. Like, you know, not that there isn't a lot, but you're right. There, I don't know. I mean, I feel like we're trying to do what you say. Like, I feel like we're trying to get back to that amazing, wonderful work of artistry and creativity, you know, that's happening in the church. And is it it is exciting? It feels like we're on the precipice of that. Like, I don't feel like we've completely, you know, like made the jump, but we're we're kind of, you know, like you're kind of like waving at it, like we're just kind of wanting to go there. And I think that that's exciting to see at least that energy. Do you feel that? I mean, you're actually in Hollywood, I'm not. Do you feel that in the creative community? Like of those who are Catholic, who are strong Christians, strong Catholics, that they are wanting to make really good work, you know, make really good art.

SPEAKER_02 38:27

Yeah, you know, the the desire is absolutely there. Like we're everyone's aligned, like we we need excellence, we need great work, we need something that's you know, any culture from anywhere can walk in the room and look at that piece of art on the wall, and they would they know it. We need to have the same reaction to pieces of cinema or music and what's at the core of it all. But you know, it's gonna take like the faith community getting behind that, and that's really difficult. You know, we think about those artists and those those uh different movements and waves that are you know, the Renaissance is roughly 150, 200 year period, and then the Baroque period is like another 100, 120 years or so. So you have these big art waves, and there's other ones that come up, like neorealism and all the other things that come later. But you have a lot of great sponsors of that art, and it was the sponsors were coming from directly from Rome. And it's like they were paying for these things, they were commissioning the best art, and they were using their talents and skills to service God and show what what we can do. Look at what we are trying to be in the image of the creator and create these beautiful images. So I you know, the the sponsorship's tough, and it didn't it didn't really hit me as hard that hard as hard as that how I feel about it now until it was actually at the institute last year when Leo Severino came and showed the trailer for zero AD. Yes, and it was so crushing, he's like, you know, this movie costs about roughly a hundred million, a little bit more. And he goes, We didn't get any money from anybody in the United States, we had to raise it all internationally. We couldn't get anyone to donate in the United States for the movie. I'm like, so you had to raise a hundred million dollars and you couldn't get it from the wealthiest country on planet earth. Like, that's crazy to me. But that you know, you've he found a way, and God was in his corner and he got it done. So good for him because him and Alejandro Monteverde are they like making they're making great films, like so. It's great to like watch them grow and blow up and do great things. And of course, we got Mel and he's doing like epic things, and it's like you know, I'm like, cool, we have great bars right now. Like we have like the pinnacle of cinema with these guys. So we have great Catholic bars and and ways to say, okay, well, that's that's the goal, that's the standard. Let's get there, let's get there. So that's what I look at. I'm like, okay, where's my career career trajectory? What do I have to do to tack and finally get to movies that have that those kinds of budgets and also meet financiers and prove what I can do for them. So, like, you know, MPI is very happy with the work I did and the reach we had and all the awards that we won. I'm like, cool, it's great to know that like I delivered on my part of the bargain, and everyone's very happy with what they got, and I'm I'm satisfied, and the cast is satisfied, and they're all satisfied. And it's great because everyone wants to go back to work together again. It's like, okay, so how do we scale? How we keep getting better.

SPEAKER_01 41:18

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 41:19

Um, so fatherly. Yeah, we can do it. So I'm I'm optimistic. I said I'm I'm I'm an eternal optimist. So I look at I look at Hollywood and how things are changing, and you can always find the bad. If you go looking for the bad, you're gonna find the bad. If you go looking for the good, it's out there. I look at like uh uh Ellison vying Warner Brothers and merging with Paramount, and they want to commit 25 more feature films to theaters because if you have the theatrical experience, then you have a shared experience, you have a shared experience, then you have culture, and we need to get culture back, amen. Right? So there we have studios that are gonna be investing in that. So, like we are we are on the edge of like a good era of filmmaking coming up. Now, are they willing to start making films that you know the mass audiences will say, Oh, they've had a string of hits in a row, like it's the 90s, and you just can't miss. You're like throwing darts behind your back, and it's always hitting a bullseye. Yeah, like we could do that, yeah. We could do that. We have the power to do it, but you gotta knock off all the other nonsense you're trying to propagandize your films with, and you alienate people. Like, you can't do that. It's supposed to be a medium to bring people together, get them in the dark cave, and this is your one light to all sit around and share stories, and then be moved and inspired, and then take that out into the world and create new memories and see yourself in a new way. Like, we can we can do that. So I'm I'm optimistic. I love that. I feel like I I I have I have my role to play and I'm excited for that.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

I'm with you. I'll I'm gonna cheer you on. Like, I'm just like I'm so here for all of that and everything that you just said.

SPEAKER_02 42:46

I'm like, let's ooh, lives in my inbox. You're in my inbox. I'm so excited. It's gonna be it's gonna be good, positive.

SPEAKER_00 42:52

That is one thing. I'm a human cheerleader, Evan. So if you ever, if you have a bad day on set or whatever, you call me and I'll just I'll cheer everybody, you know, like scream and say, come on, guys, you can do it. Because I just think what you're doing is so you're exactly right. You know, this is this is the cave in the dark, and the you know, and the movie is the light, and we are sharing a shared cultural experience. And we did lose a lot of that after COVID. We did lose a lot of our in-person and you know, especially with the arts and things like that. So I love that you're wanting to do that. Like that's why I love doing you know this podcast because it's bringing people together and it's human beings listening to other people's stories. And you are, as a director, the ultimate storyteller. And so I want you to keep doing those stories for sure. I gotta ask you though, for those people who are listening who maybe have left the church like you had at some point, right? Who it wasn't, they weren't, they're not getting up at 3 a.m. every day to pray the rosary, or maybe they're not going to mass anymore, or whatever that looks like. Do you have any actual resources that you're like, okay, this book really kind of brought me back, or this novena, or is there You know, this saint was my man. You know, like is there anything or woman? Anything that that you can give that tangibly somebody can connect to if they're wanting to come back towards the faith.

SPEAKER_02 44:11

You know, it's gonna come down, it's hard to just have like kind of a blanket answer because everyone's dealing with a different reason for why they left the faith for me. It was just poor catechesis. It's probably like 90% of why people leave, if not a hundred percent. Um but I I was reading a series of books by Dr. Brant Petrie. He has a great way of connecting Catholicism and roots of Christianity, all the way back to uh uh the Old Testament and how everything came to be and talking about culture and how it all affects and and all the archetypes of Jesus all throughout and how it all leads up to this. So he's got a great series. I mean, he's got like the Marian roots, uh, and then he's the Jewish roots of Mary, the Jewish roots of the Eucharist, which was which was great. Like if you don't really understand what the Eucharist is, uh like go there because he helps to connect the dots. Um let me think. I love that. Uh what was really helpful for me was um I feel like I'm like textbook Catholic here because I'm dropping like I was reading uh like Scott Hahn, like like Rome Sweden. That's okay. I mean that's why we have Scott Hahn. Oh, he's just great. I'm like, oh man, we got such a we got oh man, this is awesome. We've got like all-time great over here. So it was just like reading him and having the perspective of him and his wife, because you know, like I came back and and um and and my wife's not Catholic, so it's so for me, reading that book was uh really healing in a way because I'm like, oh, like these are things you can do to like if you're not both on the same page, like you got to do what you have to do as a Catholic and follow. Once you find the truth, you've got the truth, and then there's no going back. Like for him, Kimberly didn't have that yet, but he still supported her and he would never let her go to church alone. He was there's still a great loving husband, and it's like a great reminder for me be a great loving husband, love your wife, love your children, be that light. Because you can go be that example everywhere else in the world with co-workers on set or whatever you're doing, you should 100% be doing that at home. Um trying to think there's another book. I'm blanking on it.

SPEAKER_00 46:21

Do you have a saint that's close to you that you that you lock arms with ever? Like even when you're doing a project or anything, you have a patron.

SPEAKER_02 46:29

Well, you know, I'm reading, I'm reading the consecration. I'm reading uh now, I'm doing the novena to Saint Joseph right now. Same on like day eight.

SPEAKER_01 46:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 46:37

Right? Oh, good. Hey, check you out. Uh, but you know, I really love the book by uh Father Donald Calloway, The Consecration to St. Joseph. Sure. And that was just like huge. And then I just I love doing that. I did it with like a men's group, and we're all reading it. And that was huge. I mean, I love I love St. Joseph's anything with the Holy Family. Um, I have like some I think a lot of Catholics probably have their own litany that they formed. I was so excited. Okay, like for me, it was like it was always uh Father Padre Pio and Maximilian Colbey and Saint Rita of Cascia and uh Blessed Amelda Lambertini. There's a lot of uh saints like with huge Eucharistic ties that I'm very, very drawn to, like Saint uh Tarcissius and uh let's say Saint Claire of Assisi. So there's there's there's many Eucharistic saints that really have attracted me over the years. So I and then all of a sudden I'll throw a saint in there like Saint Ursula and the hundred thousand virgin martyrs. I'm just like, yeah, because you just get those crazy numbers pumped up in like in the in one go right there. Get them all.

SPEAKER_00 47:38

Uh uh yeah, I love that it's like it's like Pokemon Go, but but oh it was crazy.

SPEAKER_02 47:44

I started writing them down. I'm like, I can't read it's like going through 300 saints like in one sitting. It was hard, it was doing that for like a bit, and then that's too funny. It got dwindled down, and then you know, it depends, like you know, just like anybody else. I'm sure this happens to you, this happens to me. You have like a season of spiritual dryness, and I'm still trying to like, oh, just trying to trudge my way through it, and all of a sudden happen something happens, and the light goes back on, and you're like, Whoa, I'm back, I'm back in it. I don't know what happened. I'm glad I stayed in it this whole time, but I'm on the other side and I'm just feeling deep and I'm going deeper than ever before.

SPEAKER_00 48:19

I love that.

SPEAKER_02 48:19

So sorry, I know that you just had like a little question. No, but that's I do I love tangents.

SPEAKER_00 48:26

This is probably why we got along. Um, no, that's fantastic because you don't know who, you know, like you said, everybody has different things. So I love asking people what's working for them because it might resonate with someone who says, Oh, I don't know who that is, or I don't, I've never heard of Scott Hahn, or I don't know, you know, Saint whatever. And so that's why it's great that that you gave us a list.

SPEAKER_02 48:48

So let me I I would say for anybody who's a skeptic, I would say this because I I've I had a like great skepticism at one point. I actually started like listening to a lot of like exorcists.

SPEAKER_00 49:00

Oh, interesting.

SPEAKER_02 49:01

Because you start hearing all of their stories, like whether it's Father Ripiger or um or or Rehill or or there's so many that I've been watching over the years, but that was a big thing because if you have a lot of darkness in your life and you start to see what why you have that that shadow looming over you in some kind of way, you start to connect the dots, like okay, uh you're starting to engage yourself in all different ways that you can spiritually. So it's not it's the mental and the spiritual what you're seeing and what you're feeling. Uh so I would say anyone who's a skeptic, like go study Eucharistic miracles and exorcism like stories, not just be when it's Halloween, like get in, like understand real stuff like the real battle that's happening. That's like really horrifying, you know. So yeah, yeah, evil's real.

SPEAKER_00 49:48

Yeah, and and you shouldn't be scared of it. So no, I love that. Well, the way that we end on the podcast is that I always ask people, how can we pray for you? How can we support you in prayer? Because there's gonna be, you know, hopefully, hopefully millions of people listening to this. And um, and we want them all praying for you. So, what can we what can we be praying? How can we support you?

SPEAKER_02 50:11

You know, it just help me be a light in the darkness. It's it's Hollywood can be very challenging at times, especially with who you're around, and sometimes you there's no friendlies anywhere. So uh yeah, just you know, pray for me, pray for my family, pray for my wife and kids. Um, you know, they they need my they need prayers too, because I'm uh especially when I'm gone a lot, because I travel a ton. I did like 85 flights last year with the movie, so I've gone a lot. You know what that's like because you do crazy amount of flights too. So uh yeah, pray prayers, prayers for them and for our household, and just got God's spiritual protection and favor over us. That would that I I would love that. And and for and pray for other Catholic filmmakers that we can unite and find each other. I think sometimes we get stuck in our own little camps and we're all trying to do our own thing. But I would say I would pray for like the utmost unity in like the the Catholic world amongst the artists. I think that'll be a great boon to civilization.

SPEAKER_00 51:06

I love that. That's awesome, friend. Thank you so much for taking time to to come hang out in the living room and just chit-chat about all the things and living the life that I wish I was. I'm like so wanted to be in Hollywood and New York and whatever. And God's like, so that's cute. You're gonna stay in Texas. Um, but keep doing what you're doing, and thank you so much for sharing so much of your story. And I can't wait to see you in Napa. I'll see you this summer. So yeah, I'm looking forward to it.

SPEAKER_02 51:32

We're gonna have so much work. I'm really thank you for yeah, and thank you for having me on. This is so wonderful. Thanks to Megan and Mackenzie for organizing. You guys are all awesome over there. You're doing the Lord's work. I love it.

SPEAKER_00 51:42

Thank you, friend.