The LIVingroom with Liv Harrison

From Hot Flashes to Hallmark. Midlife Intimacy, with Mary Lenaberg

• Liv Harrison

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0:00 | 43:51

🔔 Mary Lenaburg and her husband Jerry started reviewing Hallmark Christmas movies to honor their daughter Courtney, who was blind and loved the sound of bells. What began as Instagram Stories turned into a viral moment on Yahoo Entertainment with Candace Cameron Bure and Danica McKellar sliding into their DMs.

But this episode goes way deeper than movie reviews. Mary opens up about navigating perimenopause, healing from a seven-year pornography addiction in her marriage, and what intimacy actually looks like after 38 years together. This one's for you if you've ever felt like nobody talks honestly about what happens to your body, your marriage, and your faith after 40. Welcome to The LIVing Room with Liv Harrison.

Guest Bio:

Mary Lenaburg is a Catholic speaker, author, and mentor known for her candid teaching on marriage, grief, and midlife faith. She and her husband Jerry have been married for 38 years, and she cared for their daughter Courtney, who had severe disabilities, for 22 years until Courtney's passing in 2014. Mary speaks nationally at universities and parish events, and she and Jerry went viral on Yahoo Entertainment for their Hallmark movie reviews on Instagram. She lives in Fairfax, Virginia.

Chapter Markers
00:00 Virginia Snow, Texas Tornadoes, and Mother Nature's Hot Flash

01:45 Wait — Nobody Gave Us the Menopause Talk?

03:10 Hysterectomies, Catholic Sex Ed, and the Nun's Supply Drawer

05:00 Aunt Mary's Honest Guide to Perimenopause (She's Been Through It)

06:30 Finding the Right Doctor: Why Mary Now Sees a Menopause Specialist

07:45 Cortisol, Adrenal Support, and Healing Your Gut — Liv's Type 2 Diabetes Too

11:00 Nobody Talks About Midlife Intimacy — So Mary and Liv Will

12:30 Quality Over Quantity: Real Talk About Sex After 50

14:00 Porn Addiction, Trauma, and the Marriage God Restored — Mary Gets Vulnerable

16:30 "Things That Used to Live in Maine Now Live in New Mexico" — The Body Changes

18:30 Growing Old Together Is NOT the Notebook — It's Depends and Mushy Food

20:30 Mary's 85-Year-Old Mom Still Goes to Daily Mass — Aging as a Gift

23:00 The Titus 2 Woman: Reaching Back and Pulling Another Woman Forward

26:00 How a Hallmark Christmas Movie and a Daughter Named Courtney Started It All

29:00 Yahoo Entertainment, Danica McKellar DMs, and Going Viral in Their Late 50s

34:30 Candace Cameron Bure, Silver Bells, and Favorite Hallmark Films

38:30 Marriage Books, Theology of the Body, and What Actually Helps Couples

40:30 Praying for Mary: Her New Marriage Ministry and What God Is Stirring



SPEAKER_00

For a woman, from my understanding, sex is 90% in your head. Your body is changing. Like this body is not the body of a 22-year-old bride. And things that used to live in Maine now live in New Mexico. It's just the situation. Okay? And their bodies change too. It's not going to be what it was. You have to go for quality over quantity. When you have a lot less time in front of you than behind you, like your priorities change. Every time that we're able to be with one another, I think of it as miraculous. You know, it's like everything still works. It's beautiful. Early in our marriage, I found he was addicted to pornography. And out of fear of losing him, I entered that addiction with him. So there's a lot of trauma in our marriage around that intimate act. But now he's been sober for 25 years, as have I. That's God. He has restored our marriage bed and he's restored that relationship. And so now it is even more precious to us. Not just because we're aging, but because we fought for it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're right outside, you're right outside of DC. See, and I'm outside of Houston, but I just say Houston. So we're actually in Fairfax. So we're in Virginia. We're on this side. That's a whole side of it. Yeah, it's a whole thing. Oh, okay. Well, okay. So what is the weather like there now? Because I like watching what is happening to that side of the of the country. It's kind of like we're a little chilly today. You guys, do we have snow?

SPEAKER_00

What's happening? So last week there was a day where it started at at 65 degrees, sun was out, a beautiful, cool spring breeze. By noon, we had snow. No. By 6 p.m., we had almost an inch and a half of snow. And then by 8 p.m., no snow. And it was going back up to like 50 degrees. So yesterday we had a tornado warnings locally. Thank God, one touchdown, but like 45 minutes from us. And then all of our plants froze. And so today it's cold. And so I think that Mother Nature is a little drunk. I think she hit the bar early and she's just having a good time.

SPEAKER_01

That is nuts. Okay, so it's so funny. I love anytime you talk to anybody, no matter where they live in the United States, they're like, oh, our weather's so crazy. We're so crazy. I have never heard 65 snow and then melted snow, like in one day. It was a that's crazy.

SPEAKER_00

It's the largest swing in recorded history in the state of Virginia. It was a 50-degree swing in one day. 50 degrees.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. So so what we've learned is Mother Nature is perimenopausal.

SPEAKER_02

Yes.

SPEAKER_01

That's what I hear you say. Yes.

SPEAKER_00

She needs hormone replacement therapy. She does. She needs a little love and some care, maybe to be seen and known and listened to. We need to hold a little space for her so that maybe she'll just calm the heck down. That would be great. I love it.

SPEAKER_01

Well, speaking of perimenopause, uh, seriously, this this was a topic that I wanted to talk about because I I am just now getting all of my like I feel like I just got my welcome kit. You know, like remember when when they did the whole like fifth grade and you went and you watched your movie and the boys went and watched their movie. Oh, yeah. You got a little period kit in case, you know.

SPEAKER_00

Now imagine doing that in a Catholic school with nuns giving the talk. Yes. So informative.

SPEAKER_01

So you're saying it was lovely.

SPEAKER_00

It was you would not change a thing. It was basically here's the drawer of supplies. Please come ask the nun if you need some. Like if that would happen, hell would freeze over before any of us would have done that. But that was basically the talk. Boys are boys, girls are girls, and that's how God made us. And here's where the supply drawer is. You and girls get a drawer. Yes, we get a drawer.

SPEAKER_01

So that wow, that sounds like there could be a lot of stories into that of what happened with The Draw and the Nuns. That could be your next book, The Draw and the Nuns. Yeah. That'll be a bestseller. That would off the shelves. You're welcome. You have that one for free. Um, look at this. We're just spitting out amazing nuggets. So, okay. So yeah, they don't even here's what I want to say, Mary. They don't give a talk though. Like when you go into this next phase of life, they give you the talk and they tell you all the things, and then they tell you, you know, have babies. You do that, right? A lot, you know, you try to. Everybody tries to have a baby and and you somehow they come out if you get them, if you don't, whatever. That's a whole thing all the time. I had a hysterectomy at 36. That was a whole thing. So, like, I didn't even know when I was gonna go into menopause because everybody's like, oh, well, you won't have your cycle for a year. I'm like, I haven't had my cycle for 10 years, you know. Like, what am I supposed to do? But we don't have a talk, they don't then separate you when you're 45 from the men. No, is it because men don't change at 45?

SPEAKER_00

Is that what it is? Actually, men have their own version of menopause. They really do have their own hormone fluctuation. Um so I, you know, they don't get the talk either. Ours is a little bit more dramatic because our what we what we do with our bodies has always been a little bit more. Like we are meant to hold another human being right within us, right? So um, no, we didn't get the talk. You got to remember, so I am in my late 50s. I am what we call postmenopausal. So I I've gone through the perimenopause. I had a partial hysterectomy at 35, and so I kept my ovaries, and then I went into just regular perimenopause about at 37, 38, a little early, which is not unusual. And I was in that for a good 10 years before I began to see the change of the symptoms. So I asked my mom, you know, you go to your mom, right? Like, right. What else do you do? My mother had eight children in 10 years.

SPEAKER_01

So she was taking a nap when you woke her up and said, Could you talk to me about menopause?

SPEAKER_00

And and I said, So what were your symptoms? Well, my mom never had a hot flash. My mother's one and only symptom of menopause was she had high cholesterol and high blood pressure, which she had never had in her life for about five years, and then it naturally rectified itself. Is that a is that a thing? It's a thing. Here's the thing. Right now you have this huge influx of information about menopause. You are finally seeing the research being done to assist those of us that are perimenopausal and postmenopausal. And it's beautiful and it's wonderful. But we didn't, our mothers didn't have that training. Their mothers didn't have that. And so it's up to us now, like as a woman in my late 50s, I get a call from my girlfriend who's 45, and she's like, What the heck do I do?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And my first answer is first of all, if you're comfortable with your doctor, you really love your GYN, right? Because you no longer need the OB part, but just the G Y N. If you're comfortable, you go in and talk to them, right? And and make sure that you feel listened to and supported because not every OBGYN is created equal. And so now, like we I see a menopause specialist. She's a G YN who used to deliver babies, but then went back to school and learned all she could about menopause. And so now she is a specialist in that area. So the first thing they talk about, of course, is hormone replacement. That's a very, it's not the same hormone replacement that our mothers took back in the 80s, which had a side effect of breast cancer and other side effects. Um, but it's a different one, and so it's safer. Um, then you've got the whole idea of cortisol and the adrenals being supported. Yeah, what is all that? Explain that to me.

SPEAKER_01

What is cortisol and adrenaline?

SPEAKER_00

Cortisol is okay, now just FYI. I'm not a doctor. I'm not you just play one on TV. I just play one on TV. And and I'm just, this is just from my own personal experience.

SPEAKER_01

So we are. You know what I mean? Like you're Aunt Mary. So can we just say that? Is that okay?

SPEAKER_00

I am your Aunt Mary, and this is my experience.

SPEAKER_01

Cool aunt that everybody wants to like not go ask the nun or the mom. They were like, we'll go ask Aunt Mary. Schultz.

SPEAKER_00

I'll tell you the truth. Yeah. Um, so cortisol is created when we are in fight or flight. Okay. And many in our young lives, like I had a child who had severe disabilities. And for 22 years, I cared for Courtney every single day. And I never knew if it if today was going to be the last day, right? You just never knew. So I was in serious fight or flight. My husband was in the military, add that on to it, for decades. And so it was always challenging to me to lose weight. And I carry my weight in the belly, right? And that is classic cortisol weight. So what happened was I entered into perimenopause. I started doing research about my hormones and how out of whack they are. There are there are blood tests that can tell you how out of whack you are. Um, and I started combining functional health with traditional Western medicine. And then I added in some um neuropathy, not neuropathy, um homeopathy as well to that, because I was diagnosed as being a type 2 diabetic, gosh, 15 years ago. And so that affects your hormones and your cortisol.

SPEAKER_01

Did your diabetes, did your sugar change when you went into okay, because that's what's happening with me, because I'm a type 2 diabetic. We have a lot in common. For those who who don't know Mary and I, uh, we have a lot in common, um, except I adore her. And I'm working on me. I'm working on it. But you, I already I adore you as well, my friend. But I love you to pieces. Um, but yeah, I mean, I've seen a difference in my sugar, I've seen a difference in my cholesterol, I've seen a difference in all these things. And uh, but I'm not seeing a specialist, so I need to find that.

SPEAKER_00

Yeah, that would be helpful. Um I know for me, I um there are there are a lot of supplements that you can take that you can do research on. I found that um taking butyrate and an adrenal support um to heal the gut, because we have to remember this is what people are just now beginning to talk about. Yeah. Your gut is your second brain. Right. That's right. So we can heal our gut with a pre, post, and probiotic, and we can get our gut and the inflammation down, which is your cortisol, then things begin to change, right? It's not a weight problem, it's a hormone problem. Yeah. Because cortisol is a hormone that we create. So it's just it's a matter of of finding the right practitioner that can assist you, whether it be Western medicine, whether it be eastern medicine, or um, you know, homeopathic or functional medicine or a combination of all three. There's so much more information out there to help you. You are not going crazy. Things are changing in your body because you're coming out of a time when your entire focus of your body was to make those babies. Right. And now you're entering a new season. And men go through a very similar thing. Their testosterone drops. Um, you know, you see them losing their hair, right? They male pattern baldness, that's because the testosterone is off. Um, and so they go through their own kind of change as well. So, yeah, you have to be. I mean, we my husband and I have been married for 38 years. There's been a lot of adjustment that we've made to each other as far as our intimate life is concerned, as far as our physical health is concerned. Um, you know, when you have a lot less time in front of you than behind you, like your priorities change. Yeah. So you know, sure life is now considered like 40s is midlife because the average lifespan is 77, 78 years old. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

That's it. And it's exactly, and so you get to the side. Well, let me ask you this since it's just the two of us in the living room and nobody else is listening. That intimate thing, let's go back to that real quick. Because who's gonna talk about it? Nobody, but Mary and I will we'll talk about it. Um, so intimacy in your midlife, can you get it back to what it was?

SPEAKER_00

Okay, it's not going to be what it was. We have to do it.

SPEAKER_01

Nobody's gonna be 18 again. Well, I wasn't doing anything at 18. Okay, I was married at 22. All right, so nobody's gonna be 22 again.

SPEAKER_00

Um, I don't want to see here's the thing. I don't want to be 22. I don't either. You have to go for quality over quantity. I oh, that's nice. I like that movie. So you have to think about for a woman, most of from from my understanding and from my reading and again personal experience, sex is 90% in your head.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

You have to relax your body, yeah, you know, be in a uh in a state of calm. Um, there can't be any kind of frustration or agitation between you and your spouse. It just doesn't, you know, especially as we get older, it's just harder to to kind of push your way through that. Yeah. Whether you're young and the hormonal support that to do that now, it it's really a mental game and it's a connection game, it's a communication game, right? You have to talk to each other because your body is changing. Like this body is not the body of a 22-year-old bride. This body is not the body of the 45-year-old. This is a this is a 58-year-old. And things that used to live in Maine now live in New Mexico. And it's it's just the situation. Okay. And I have to say, their bodies change too, right? Yes. I don't like to say that.

SPEAKER_01

They do. They do. They might have it might be more Kentucky is in Georgia, but it's something something is moving.

SPEAKER_00

So it's it's a it's a matter of connection with one another. Yeah. There's a lot more conversation. Um, things take a little bit longer. Um, it we're not rushing to the goalpost. We're taking our time for a nice slow walk through the garden. And it's beautiful. And it's just beautiful. I, you know, Jerry and I have faced a lot of trauma in our intimate life. Um, early in our marriage, I found he was addicted to pornography. And out of fear of losing him, I entered that addiction with him for seven years. So there's a lot of trauma in our marriage around that intimate act. And so as the Lord was healing us and healing our marriage and healing that for us, you know, we didn't have a lot of great connection during that time. It was just hard. It was, it was hurtful, it was painful, it was just nobody wanted anything to do with anything. But now, as we're on the other side of this situation, he's been sober uh for 25 years or more, as have I. Um and congratulations. Thank you. And so, you know, that's God. That's God. That is God. And he has restored our marriage bed and he's restored that relationship. And so now it is even more precious to us, not just because we're aging, but because we fought for it. We fought to remain married, we fought to to fall in love again with the true people that we are, not with the ones that we brought to our marriage that we thought were not good enough, but with the ones that are, you know, you stand in front of each other. I mean, it's the most intimate thing we can do as humans. And and there's nothing you can hide in that moment. Not in your heart, not physically, it's all there. And so to be able to enter into that in middle age as we get older, um, it's a beautiful thing. It's a privilege.

SPEAKER_01

It is.

SPEAKER_00

You know, I every time that we're able to be with one another, um, I think of it as miraculous, you know, it's like everything still works. It's beautiful and it is wonderful. And you just you wanna, it's kind of like I what came to my mind now not to be sacrilegious or scandalous, please, Lord. Um, but like the transfiguration, like they want to stay in the mountain. This is such a powerful moment. Sure. You want to stay there. Sure. Um, and when you're with your spouse and it's a powerful moment, you want to stay there, of course. Unfortunately, we can't. No, we can't, you know, we have to go back to life. But the other thing is is that you have to learn um, like the garden is is very arid uh in that season, very dry. And so you have to um be creative. You have to be gentle with one of the miracle growth. And exactly. And and there are things that are natural that you can do to help um with that slow um walk.

SPEAKER_01

Yes, I love that. No, but that's true. I mean, yeah, there's seasons. This is a season, it's a different season, and winter does not look the same as summer, and it's not supposed to. No, and you don't fertilize the same in winter the same way that you do in summer. I mean, this is it's that's why it's the perfect metaphor. And we shouldn't be ashamed to talk about it because God created our bodies this way and he created marriage. He knew, well, if they're gonna stick this out, you know, they start in their 20s and they're in their 50s, 60s, 70s, God willing, yeah, it's gonna evolve. And you evolve together. Yes. That is that is the intimacy, also, is that you're growing into this new space, into this new, you know, and and discovering, well, all right, how do we work things here?

SPEAKER_00

You know, what do we and you can have fun with it, right? Yeah, it's you know, I mean, you remember when, well, okay, I'll just speak for myself. When we were young, yeah, it would be like, this is so fun, this is so good. And now it's like, what does this do? What is exactly? And now it's like, oh, I remember that. Oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, okay, sure.

SPEAKER_00

That's lovely. You know, it's just a different conversation. It's it has a different intensity to it. Sure. The emotional connection is so much more important um than even the physical allows you to be. Like there, you know, there will come a time, I know, in our married life where that won't happen. Sure. Like it won't be possible for health reasons or physicality or what have you. And I remember um talking with my GYN, and uh, she is in her mid to late 60s, and she's like, Oh, the memories are beautiful. And I'm like, Oh, so it okay. So we're gonna go to memories. Like, no, it's she goes, it's not a bad thing, Mary. It's the evolution. You know, we keep trying to stay in our 20s and in our 30s, and we keep, you know, we think of of plastic surgery, you think of all these medical and cosmetic things that are happening. Everybody, you know, that fountain of youth. And the fountain of youth was never meant to be.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

We were meant to evolve, we were meant to go forward, we're meant to have wrinkles, we're meant to, you know, the body changes. We're we're what we want is to be strong. Yes, and as healthy as possible so that we can serve in the mission field where the Lord has placed us for as long as possible. Exactly. And and that includes in our marriages. So Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And growing old together. I love that, you know, you see we find that as very we've romanticized, you know, like the notebook or, you know, these other films where they're like, oh, we're gonna grow old together. And it's like, do you understand what growing old together is? It's depends. And it's, you know, it's uh it's it's eating food that's mushy and it's you know, it's a lot like let's be real. There's a reality to it, just as when you're having babies, you're like, oh, we're gonna have a baby. Like it's this metrical, it poops yellow, you know, for at least eight weeks. You know what I mean? It's like mustard, and you nobody knows why. It's just whatever. I mean, you know what I'm saying? It's like we romanticize these things, and then when they're actually happening, I think it's interesting that we get like offended, you know, like how dare this baby wake up all night.

SPEAKER_00

Exactly. My mom happens to be turning 85 in two weeks. God bless. She has been a widow for 25 years. Wow. And so she misses that conversation every night. She misses the hand holding in a walk, she misses those things of of being with my dad. Um, but this is a woman who's smart as a tack.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

There is, you know, now her niece, right? Not the best, her feet bothering her.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Um, her strength, her physical strength, much less. But she still walks every day, she swims all the time. She's doing everything she can.

SPEAKER_02

Wow.

SPEAKER_00

So that she can go to church every morning and pray and say the rosary, so that she can go and serve when there's a funeral at the church and she's part of the potluck committee, so she can go and spend time. With her now great grandchildren and you know, have the energy to do it. So, um, you know, yeah, it's there there is a romanticism that we we kind of I think because we're afraid. We're afraid to look at the truth of what it is, right? And there comes a point in your life where the truth just stares you straight down in the face, and you have to either accept it and do your best to live within it, or spend the rest of your life getting Botox and freeze dry your double chin and I don't know, whatever else happens, whatever else everybody's paying money to do.

SPEAKER_01

No, but you're so right. It's um it's so beautiful, and I think it's time for us as a society. What I would like us to do is to embrace that, just like you do embrace a baby, you know, and and that is still beautiful, although it cries all night and it poops yellow and it does all the things and it, you know, spits up and all this stuff. We still love the baby. We don't say, well, I'm done with this, you know. 99% of people don't. They keep the baby and they keep going. I would love to see us embrace this next chapter, you know, this older chapter of life and say, This is beautiful, just like the desert is just as beautiful as the ocean. Yeah, you know, I was in Jordan and we went to the Wadi Rum, and that's where they filmed Indiana Jones and all the Star Wars films. I was geeking out. I mean, I have three brothers, right? So I was like, this is amazing. And it was beautiful, it was breathtaking. Now it's not the Alps, you know, it's not whatever, but it's got this different beauty to it, and it is something to cherish. And I'm so glad that you said, I love that you said that your mom does these things so she can keep worshiping God. Like I've never thought of that before. I never thought about my responsibility with my body and with my health and with my the time on this planet, is that I need to continue that in order so I can continue to say a rosary or go to mass or do that. Like that's a beautiful thing, Mary.

SPEAKER_00

Well, you think of it. Um, you know, when you go to church, if you ever go during the week, especially, up toward the front, there's always this little group of women and some men as well. Gray hair. Yeah, of course. You know, lots of wrinkles. There's a cane, there's a walker, whatever. And they're there. And I swear they hold the corners of the church with their prayers. Yeah. I I just feel like to age is a gift. It is a gift to get old. It is a gift. It is a gift to be able to still go out of your house and go and do the things that you desire to do. It is a gift to continue to grow and learn. It is a gift, especially as women, you know, we always hear about the Proverbs 31 woman. Like she's got her servants doing all the things and she's making the flax garments and she's got the, you know, all the things going on. And there's a season for that. But right now, I'm in the Titus II womanhood. And that is a woman who has grown with age and wisdom, right? And my job at this season of my life is to hold space and to be able to look at a young woman in her teens, twenties, thirties, forties, fifties, even, and to be able to say to them with all sincerity and all truth, it is beautiful. This season of life is beautiful. And I have so much more to offer. I feel like I'm just getting started because of everything I've learned. And you don't want to keep that learning to yourself. That's not what we're supposed to do. We're supposed to reach behind us and grab the hand of another woman and say, see this mountain we're going up? We're going up together. And we can do it when we're together. So come on, you know, and I learn like tomorrow night I will be at a local university here speaking to their Fersati Society. I'll be around 19, 20 year olds. And you're like, what does this old lady have to tell me? Sit down, little girl. I got a lot to tell you. Okay. I got a lot to tell you about all these things that you're worried about, which I get and I hear and I honor. I am not disregarding them at all, but I'm telling you, they they do not, what you do is not who you are. What you have done is not who you are. Your greatest shame is not greater than the love that God has for you.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And we in this society that we live in now where everything's behind a phone and and people are rude and people are mean and people are lonely and they feel unseen, it it has to be said even louder how much God loves you and how much how beautiful you are, and that he has brought you to this season, whatever season it is, and there is a purpose and a reason for you being here right now in the situation you're in. And if you lean on him and you learn to hear his voice, then he's gonna tell you exactly why, and he's gonna give you your marching orders. And then it's up to us to either be obedient or to turn our face.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

And as hard as being an ob you know, to be obedient, as hard as that is, it ends so much better.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, I love that. I that that's the message that I want people to hear from you. I think that that's what you do. And you and Jerry, you know, you said earlier that you emotionally connect, you know, in this, you have an intimacy now that you're in this chapter. I love how we we romanticize it in this chapter of life. Um, and one of the things that you two do that you share with the rest of the world is you like to share that you watch movies and that you do this together. And it's something that you do together. It's something that you share on the internet, and a lot of it is hallmark. A lot of it is, you know, I don't know if you're doing what's the other company? American. Great American, um, all that. And and so for people who don't know um this side of you, which I don't know how they don't, but if they don't, just by chance, could you bring me back to when did this start? You know, when did this intimate, beautiful, emotional connection that you guys decide to share with the world that you do?

SPEAKER_00

So the one thing that you can always find in a Hallmark Christmas movie, it started with Hallmark Christmas movies, and now it goes year-round, but it started with that. The one thing you can always find is bells ringing, okay? Oh, when our daughter Courtney was alive in every Christmas movie, we would sit and we would watch. Now Courtney was blind, so she couldn't see the movie, but she could hear it. And she always laughed when bells rang. And so we would sit on the sofa, and it was a safe movie, there was nothing untoward in it. Um, and we she would just laugh every time she heard the bells. And so Courtney passed away in 2014. How old was she? She was 22 years old. 22. Yeah, okay. And so the next Christmas, the Christmas movies come around, and we just couldn't, I had zero interest in watching them. It's too much.

SPEAKER_01

Sure.

SPEAKER_00

And so it was a few years, and then in 2000, I think it was 2018, we started watching them again. And you know, Instagram had just come out with their stories, and they were 30-second little clips on your stories. And so one night we shared our review of this Christmas movie, and Jerry was comparing the Christmas movie to an Arnold Schwarzenegger movie. Of course he was. Because that is the most Jerry thing I've ever heard. There you go. And being a guy of the 80s, this is what he was doing. And people just, they were like, When's the next review? And so we looked at each other and we watched another Christmas movie, a new Christmas movie the next weekend, and it got some traction. And over the years, people start in October direct messaging us when's the first Christmas review? This year, this past year, for whatever reason, it popped off and went viral. No. Oh, yeah, we were on Yasin's Entertainment. You were not. We were.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't know I was talking to a celebrity. Okay, Beyonce, what are we doing?

SPEAKER_00

Because of the story of why we started watching them and why we now we do it in honor of Courtney. And we a lot of the time as we're watching, I'll be like, Courtney would have been really disappointed. The bells only rang once. Like, we need at least a three bell movie. So that's hilarious. You know, it's kind of like an homage to her, but also like there's so much out in the world in media that is not family friendly and is not faith friend friendly in any way, shape, or form. And so any time that we can support something that goes along with our aligns with our beliefs as Roman Catholics, then I want to be able to shout it and say, this is a great movie. You will love this movie. Now, some of them are so, so bad. So bad. So they really are. They really are so bad. They are so bad that they're awesome. You have to watch them because it's a train wreck. Okay. And those are the ones that are the most popular. People are like, oh my gosh, you were right. It was an utter train wreck, but I was laughing so hard because it was just so cheesy. Like they bring the clock of cheese all the way around that you just have to watch. And it's fun, it's lighthearted, it's something we do together. And you know, now we've gone through the Valentine's movies, now we're into the spring movies.

SPEAKER_01

Oh, so you're still doing them. You do them all year now. Our people, your people continue. Give the people what they want, Mary.

SPEAKER_00

I'm trying. We want a lot of things, Liv.

SPEAKER_01

And I'm I'm tired. I was gonna say, friend, you gotta be like, I, I, I commend you for that because that's a lot. I mean, that's that's a commitment. It is that might even be part of the marriage to sit and say, I'm going to watch these movies all the time.

SPEAKER_00

The the whole point of them is really it's not about me.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

It's just Jerry's reaction. Is it amazing? Jerry is white man yells at Sky. He is super conservative, super grumpy, super like, this is the most ridiculous and dumb thing. If my father ever saw this, he would be like, Jerry Dodd, why do you, you know, I mean, this is what he does. And so when he's watching them, like the cringe factor is so good that you just have to laugh. I just laugh the whole time. I just watch him and I'm like, it was good, wasn't it? And then there are times where he gets really invested in the movie and he's three-quarters of the way through the movie. And as he's gotten older, he's gotten a little bit of a softer heart. And he's like, I swear, if they don't fix this soon, they don't get together. They don't get together. I'm like, the one thing you can always, always count on with a Hallmark or great American film is it will have a happy ending, Jerry. Have no fear. In the last five minutes, it will all get tied up into a neat little package. Boom, it's done, which is the downfall of many of these movies. But it's just a lot of fun. It's something that we do together. Yeah. It's um we laugh, we we just enjoy it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Well, and what's so have you thought about? Have you seen how the kids these days, you know, uh the the hot 20-year-olds or whatever, how they do like a reaction video where they watch. Have you all done that with Jerry yet? Have you put a camera on him? I feel like that's where you need to up your game. I feel like this is where you go next. So and when a 20-year-old would like to come in and tell us how to do that, sure, then we would be happy to do. I bet your public has somebody. I bet there's somebody that's gonna be at your door very scary, and and that'll be fine. But one day we'll have to we'll have to watch the reaction ourselves because I can't imagine Jerry watching these films. It's yeah, it's pretty epic. It's he's so funny. But the two of you together, and I think that that's also what's so great, is that see, I didn't even know that you went viral and that you're you know, Yahoo Entertainment. That's so cool, first of all.

SPEAKER_00

It was okay, when they first smelled it.

SPEAKER_01

Cool. You thought that was a joke.

SPEAKER_00

Did you think it was a joke? And I emailed them back and I said, This is a very good fake. I am so impressed with whoever doing this in China or Pakistan. You're awesome. High five. Exactly. And then I'm like, sincerely marry. And then they actually emailed back and they're like, no, actually, here's the link, and this is who I am, and you can find my things here. And she sent a little video introducing herself, and I was like, Oh, you're real, you're real. Oh, we're not used to that now with AI and everything. I mean, and so we had a Zoom interview, and then it was on Yahoo Entertainment, and we we got thousands of new followers, and I bet. I bet and people love it because now we we're putting out that you know, to Hallmark and to Great American, uh, we had several of the actors and actresses from these movies begin to follow us because we were reviewing their movies, yes. So now my big our big goal is that we want to be the innkeepers on one of these movies or the grandparents, like just to go. I mean, come on, wouldn't that be?

SPEAKER_01

I would die if you meet Candace Cameron Baret.

SPEAKER_00

She follows us.

SPEAKER_01

I can't talk to you.

SPEAKER_00

DJ Tanner. I've become we've been chatting and did in direct messages. She's a lovely, lovely woman. I didn't even know this, Mary.

SPEAKER_01

I didn't even know this. This is I would have started a podcast months ago.

SPEAKER_00

That's incredible. It's just, it's, you know, when you're kind to people, I love it. We we love most of her movies, but a couple of them we've been like, and she came back and she's like, Really? You didn't like that one? This was my favorite part. And I'm like, and I'm so glad it was your favorite part. It was not our favorite part. Smiley face, smiley face, you know, like that's we love you.

SPEAKER_01

But that's what's so great being in your late 50s. You can say that, whereas like maybe 22-year-old, you would be like, Oh, yeah, no, no, no, sorry. I didn't mean to like. And no, I'm not I'm not apologizing for tanking your movie.

SPEAKER_00

It was awful, but I love you. And I I think you're talented. And if you have a great script and a great story, you knock it out of the park. But yeah, for sure. It's never about, I don't think it's always about the acting. I think it's about the story that they get. And um, because some of these actors are just tremendous, fabulous. And you know, they've been doing this for a long time. And and like the one that Candace Cameron Bray was in with the time with her daughter, where she traveled in time. Yes, that was one of the best movies I saw of everything last year. Fabulous. Because the chemistry was awesome and the story was believable. And the other actors and actresses that supported her, including her daughter, who won an award for that that role, I didn't know. Um, was awesome, you know. So, like, we need more of that.

SPEAKER_01

We do. We need more of that. And do you have a favorite? Because I actually have a favorite Hallmark film. I actually have one. It's in their gold crown collection. Do you know what that is? Yes, I do. We're totally geeking out. Well, we've lost every male. If we didn't lose all the male listeners with Perry Menopause, they're gone now. They're gone now. They've been gone. They they're like, we didn't even turn this on. Um, but yeah, okay. Do you have a favorite? My mom, my mom's is uh the Times of Ordinary Days or the Whatever of Ordinary Days.

SPEAKER_00

That's that's not a Christmas movie, but that is the Christmas movies. Yeah, with Carrie Russell. I think it was a Hallmark, uh Hallmark um on Sundays. Remember when they used to do the Hallmark movies? Yeah. Yes, the Whatever of Ordinary Days.

SPEAKER_01

My favorite is Loving Leia. I don't know if you've seen Loving Leia.

SPEAKER_00

I love that movie. I love it. I have it on DVD. I love it. Yes, everyone, we are those people. That is a great film. It's a great film. It's a great film. It has great chemistry with the actors. Brilliant. And it's a coming-of-age story, but told in such a unique way.

SPEAKER_01

It's fabulous. It is so fantastic. I mean, my kids have grown up watching Loving Leia, and their friends are like, we don't know those words that you're saying. And I'm like, it's Lauren Ambrose, and it is, you know, and then they have Michael Boublet singing in it, and it's just fabulous. It is so um, yeah, I get it. My favorite, though. That's yeah, what is your favorite? Yeah, Loving Leia's my favorite. The magic of ordinary days. That's what it's called.

SPEAKER_00

The magic of ordinary days is my mom's is really great. Um, I I love there's there's one called Um Silver Bells. Oh. And it's with um Ann Um Haish, who has now passed away. Yeah. And this was before her, in between her typical life and her kind of gone off the deep end life in real life.

SPEAKER_01

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And it's about a young man who runs away and he wants to be, he he's on a Christmas tree farm, and they they come to bring the trees to New York City, and he decides he doesn't want to go back to the farm. He wants to be a photographer, he wants to be in the city, and so he runs away. And um, for a whole year, he's in the city and he takes these pictures of different places in the city. And Ann Hayes plays a newspaper um editor, and she hires him to take um to kind of do a scavenger hunt, and that's how the family ends up reuniting again. Oh, and he's learned a lot of things, and and she's learned something as his mentor because she didn't know he was a runaway. Um, and it's just a beautiful story that's beautiful of kind of reclaiming the season and a family, and um, and I love that one. It was back in the somewhere in the 2000s.

SPEAKER_01

Okay, I'm gonna look that one up for sure. No, that's fantastic. So, do you have any practical tips or like resources for couples, no matter how old they are, whether they've been married 10 minutes or they've been married 100 years? Are there any go-to favorites? Like my parents, their favorite book, well, I should say my father. My father's favorite book to recommend to people is his needs, her needs. I don't know if you ever read that one. That's a good one. Yeah. But do you have anything that that are some of your go-to's for at different places in in marriage?

SPEAKER_00

So um, Sex and Marriage by Christopher West. Great, great one. Yeah, and and we learned from that one early, later. I mean, it didn't come into our marriage until it was published, and we were already married at that point. So, but uh we really use that a lot when we mentor young couples.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00

Uh, there's also another one called Marriage. I think um, and I don't remember the author, but the cover is black and it's big bold print, and it's written by a Christian author who holds no bars, like just calls out a lot of things. And I wish I I can see the cover now, but if we can just look in your brain, a puzzle brain is not telling me what the name of it is. That's fine. It's clear it's an excellent book. Um, anything having to do with theology of the body is a win, for sure. You know, that's absolutely what healed our marriage. To understand that the body is a gift, um, your sexuality is a gift, uh, the sex that God assigned you at birth is not a mistake. It is a gift.

SPEAKER_02

Right.

SPEAKER_00

And um, anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you. Yeah. And it's just we in today's world where there's so much that has gone so wrong when it comes to our sexual identity, um, male and female, um, that I think we have to go back to what the church has taught us because the dignity of the human person is forefront in and who we are as Christians and Catholics. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

We've been created with tremendous intention.

SPEAKER_00

Amen.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. Friend, um, when s a guest is leaving our time, um, I always ask if there's something we could be praying for for you. Is there any way that we could support you, pray for you that you're needing in your life at this time?

SPEAKER_00

You know, I always appreciate prayers for my ministry when I go out and get on a plane and go talk to people. Um, there's a lot that goes into that that, you know, people think it's it's very glamorous and exciting. And and there are very moments. Uh very moments. Moments that are glamorous and exciting. Um, but I would say that's maybe 5% of the entire trip. So prayers for that and for, I know Jerry and I have been really prayerfully uh with intention praying about um a new ministry for the two of us, a marriage ministry. Not sure what it's gonna be called, not sure what it's gonna look like, but the Lord has been calling to us both of us separately, and now we've begun, we brought it to our our our prayer life together as a couple. So I know there's that he's working there, and I just don't know what yet. So we're just gonna leave that in his hands until he's ready to put the big sign up and say, hey, y'all, this is what you're doing.

SPEAKER_01

Sends an email from a real person, not an AI boss. That would be nice. We can put for sure. For sure. Mary, thank you so much for this time. Every time I I spend with you, I learn, I get so many amazing uh pieces of wisdom. We are just blessed to have you. So don't stop being you and doing all the things that you do. I love you to pieces, and uh I can't wait till I get to see and hug your neck. So whenever that is.

SPEAKER_00

It's always such a joy to be with you, Liv, and thank you so much. I'm so excited for you and this new project. It's gonna be great. Thanks. Love you, friend.