Percheron Horses Explained: Power, History & Training

Step into the powerful world of Percheron draft horses and carriage driving in this episode of Monday Moments. Host Suzanne Rajczi, speaks with Frank Castella of Castle Carriage about the history, strength, and legacy of these incredible horses from their origins as medieval warhorses in France to their vital role in American agriculture.

Frank shares how he trains draft horses using trust and consistency, breaks down hitch terminology, and explains how teams are built for parades, weddings, competitions, and even film work. He also tells the story of acquiring his first Percheron and building a life around these animals.

A highlight of this episode is the inspiring Warrior Wagon Veterans Appreciation Project—an accessible, military-themed wagon Frank designed to honor service members. From 2014 to 2024, the project recognized nearly 600 veterans and public servants, blending agriculture, craftsmanship, and patriotism.

If you’re interested in horses, farming, history, or honoring those who serve, this episode delivers.

00:51 Meet Frank Castella 
02:02 Percheron Origins and Warhorses
04:47 Hitches and Horsemen Basics 
06:30 Draft Breeds Compared 
10:06 Size Weight and Farm Work 
12:48 First Percheron at the Fair 
16:07 Building Teams and Wagons 
23:31 Training with Kindness 
27:30 Trust Building Timeline 
29:33 Breaking Cart Gone Wrong 
32:09 Warrior Wagon Origins 
43:36 Impact Honoring 600 Heroes 
46:49 Hitch Roles And Training 
49:03 Driving Cues And Control 
50:25 Favorite Horses And Joy 
52:33 Youth And Agriculture Future 
56:47 Final Thanks And Fair Promo

Transcript

SPEAKER_01 0:00

Hello and welcome to Dutchess County Fair, a legacy of agriculture and community, a podcast celebrating the people, traditions, and farms that make agriculture such an important part of life here in Dutchess County and across America. I'm your host, Suzanne Roitze, longtime member of the Duchess County Agricultural Society, food service industry leader, and passionate advocate for preserving our agricultural heritage. In this series, we bring forward the stories of farmers, horsemen, artisans, and community leaders who are not only preserving tradition, but inspiring future generations. Today's episode takes us into a truly powerful and visual part of agricultural history, the world of draft horses. We're honored to welcome Frank Costella, founder of Castle Carriage, whose magnificent percheron horses have become a beloved presence at events, parades, and agricultural fairs. But this story goes beyond beauty and tradition. An extraordinary initiative known as the Warrior Wagon, Frank has created something deeply meaningful, a tribute to service, sacrifice, community, gratitude. Today we'll explore the strength and legacy of Percheron horses, the art of carriage driving, and the powerful story behind the Warrior Wagon. Obviously, today I want to talk more about the Percheron horses and have our readers learn more about this breed and where it came from.

SPEAKER_04 1:45

Well, do you want to hear the whole story of how I got started with pertrons?

SPEAKER_01 1:48

Well, first, before we get to you getting started with percherons, let's just talk a little bit about the history of the horse and you know where they originated from, what they were bred for, how did they get to America?

SPEAKER_04 2:02

Well, the Pertron horse started to get developed back in the medieval times, and they were the they raised large, strong horses for the knights in armor. And uh the La Perche district of France was the homegrowns of where the initial breed came from. And their horses were known and they were used by Napoleon. And if you go back and you study history and particularly the Napoleonic War period, Napoleon was known to do like what the bloodstreak was. As a matter of fact, the Germans modeled their army bloodstreak mechanism after Napoleon because these horses were fast, but they were docile, but they were brave. And I I can go on and tell you stories about some of the situations that we've been in. And uh you say, I don't think you could take a horse through something like that, and we do.

SPEAKER_03 3:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 3:13

Because inherently in their genetics is bravery. And what would happen is the mares and the foals would be fall behind the military. As the military moved on to a different area or a different mission, the families would fall behind them. The mare milk was used for cheese and substance. And also they the mares were always kept bread, just like you would breed a cow to continue on being able to get milk. So the substance for the army came not only from the milk, also it came from the meat. If a horse was deemed, if it was a and they used all the stallions, they didn't they didn't do much with geldings, but if a horse was deemed to be not brave, they ate him. So they they actually bred cowardness out of the breed.

SPEAKER_01 4:18

Incredible.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

And I mean we've been, I think I told you earlier about the situation, driving a six-horse hitch in a parade. Andre and I on the on the on my hitch wagon, which uh we'll see later, uh were in Bridgeport and we went under the the overpass for 95, and there was a bunch of kids on the overpass, and they dropped a pack of fireworks, one of those long ones, dropped it down as we were going under the underpass, and they landed right between the horses.

SPEAKER_01 4:47

To be honest with you, I don't think our viewers even understand what a hitch is. So you you kind of need to, you're gonna need to, this is gonna be horse 101 here.

SPEAKER_04 4:57

Well, we use the term hitch for anywhere from a single horse right up through six-horse hitch and Budweiser with an eight-horse hitch. That's a that's a hitch. If you look at Budweiser's team, and a team is two, four, six, eight. And we've done as many as 12 years ago when Bob Brennan was still alive. You probably remember Bob.

SPEAKER_01 5:21

I do.

SPEAKER_04 5:21

And uh Bob just passed away this past year, and he was one of the finest horsemen I knew, and I learned a lot from him. But uh, I was always the type of person I would learn from books, but I would learn from observation. And watching the old timers hook up horses, we call it hitching.

SPEAKER_01 5:44

Right.

SPEAKER_04 5:45

Watching the old timers and seeing how they did things, and they a lot of them didn't want to give up too many of their secrets.

SPEAKER_03 5:52

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 5:53

But you had to be observant, and then some of them would. Right. Like the Chris brothers, where I spent my youth growing up with the horses from Connecticut, were farriers, and they flew all over the country for Anheuser Busch.

SPEAKER_01 6:06

And a farrier is sure. Right. Just so an audience knows what it is.

SPEAKER_04 6:11

Some farriers just buy keg shoes that come from a factory and they shape them up and put them on. Right. But a farrier that's an accomplished farrier uh well could start with a piece of barstock and make a special shoe for a horse.

SPEAKER_01 6:30

So how does the Percheron differ from the Clydesdale? I mean, I think America and the audience is really like them better.

SPEAKER_04 6:37

Yeah, well, you like them better, but it's no, I'll be honest with you, and I learned this from the horseman and from Cornell University, and uh I'm trying to remember his name, but he back when we first started showing horses, he judged a lot. And he said to me one day, I said to him, I says, you know, there's lots of good horses in this show, but why did you pin my mayor as supreme grand champion mayor? I said, and I know he raised Belgians. And he says, Well, Frank, he says, I like any good horse. Doesn't matter what breed or what color it is, and I never forgot that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 7:21

So the Percheron is part of a draft horse of which a Clydesdale.

SPEAKER_04 7:25

You would say the Pertron is Shire, uh the Clydesdale. Uh bigger? The Shire is considered the biggest horse of the draft breeds. But when I was a young man in Connecticut, there was a harness maker there in in Woodbury. And again, I can't remember his name. Um you know, at my age, I'm lucky I remember who I am. When I look in the mirror, I don't recognize myself a lot of times. But he uh he had a Belgian that was 192.

SPEAKER_01 8:03

Big 192 refers to the size of one hand is three inches. I thought it was four. You know, taught me something. One hand is three inches? Four inches.

SPEAKER_04 8:15

Four inches. Yeah, you're right. I stand to be corrected. But uh they they used to use hands, right, you know, but uh average, but uh he had he had a massive Belgian uh and John Kris used to go up there and shoe him, and I was a young kid, I would go when I could on weekends or if I skipped school, and I was known to skip school a lot.

SPEAKER_01 8:42

Yeah, I'm sure.

SPEAKER_04 8:43

You know, yeah. Uh if it was hunting season or fishing season, uh school was school was secondary, you know.

SPEAKER_01 8:49

Okay, I get that.

SPEAKER_04 8:50

So uh we we would go up there and this horse got gravel, and gravel is when a stone gets in there gets in the horse's the soft part of the underpart of his foot.

SPEAKER_01 9:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:03

And they call it there's a sensitive area, and the piece of gravel got in there and it works its way up. A lot of times it comes out by the coronet band, you'll get a swelling there, pus will bust out, you soak the foot.

SPEAKER_01 9:19

Not good. You don't want a lame draft horse.

SPEAKER_04 9:22

No, you don't want any horse lame, you know.

SPEAKER_01 9:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 9:24

But uh yeah, even with proper care on their feet, and this horse had very good care. Yep, but you know, he he was trotting or galloping somewhere, and stone got caught just right and went in his foot. And John, they had x-rays. John tried to dig it out, and as much as he dug, he could never get to it, and it never abscessed. And the horse wound up dying from it.

SPEAKER_01 9:49

Oh, that's terrible. What a tragedy.

SPEAKER_04 9:51

Yeah, but they do say the Shire is considered the largest breed, but there's large horses in every draft breed. You know, I've seen pertrons that big, I've seen Clydesdale's that big, and I've seen very large Shires.

SPEAKER_01 10:06

How much does a Pertron weigh on everyone?

SPEAKER_04 10:09

Well, you gotta look at it. But with a modern pertron that's used for a hitch horse for competition and driving, uh, usually around 2,000 pounds.

SPEAKER_01 10:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 10:20

Now, and that they're usually between 18 and 19 hands.

SPEAKER_03 10:26

High.

SPEAKER_04 10:27

But if if you take uh a horse that is bred, and I go back to the old-fashioned horses, if you go back to France, they don't like what we're breeding in the States. Too small, too petite, or they're too fine boned, okay, too high, right, too tall, too hard to put a harness on.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 10:47

So the original Pertron breed 16, 16, 2, that was considered about the right size. And then it was easier to harness, and they're closer to the ground, they would plow or do do whatever they needed to do with the horsepower.

SPEAKER_01 11:03

So they were originally brought to this country for agricultural purposes. Yeah, we were.

SPEAKER_04 11:08

And they were the major the pertron was the major breed in this country for many years. But then I'm gonna say, and I could be wrong, but I would say the early 1900s, the Belgians became more popular. Uh the Shires and the Clydes were never real, real popular. And uh I don't want to say why, but I'll say that the Belgian and the Pertron lend itself better to long hours of hard work. And a lot of people think, well, when the West was settled, they used horses and wagons, which isn't true. Uh they people would leave Pennsylvania primarily, anywhere in the Northeast, they would head to Pennsylvania where they could buy livestock, harness, and all the fittings they needed with wagons. That's where Studebaker started, building wagons to go out west. But once they got to St. Louis, that was only maybe halfway of the journey. Yeah, the horses would be spent.

SPEAKER_01 12:13

Right.

SPEAKER_04 12:14

They needed it because you know they worked all day and they would stop at night, they would graze a little bit, but they weren't getting the grain and the feed they needed. When they got there, they would go to oxen and use the oxen. And and the oxen were really good because they could graze as they as they traveled. They'd reach down, grab some grass. And as the grass began to get less and less, they would change the track a little bit. So some of those tracks going out west were very wide, you know, and it was all an evolution.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Um, so when did you start? What who was your first perch route?

SPEAKER_04 12:52

Well, it was it was Felina and it was at the fair.

SPEAKER_01 12:54

Felina was a baby.

SPEAKER_04 12:55

She was a baby, and she was at the fair with her mother, and her mother and her another female mayor, they had them in a stall next to each other, and they called them Amos and Andy. And of course, a lot of the people would come up, see Amos and Andy, two black horses, something you couldn't do today. Sure. No, absolutely not. My wife and I fell in love with the baby.

SPEAKER_01 13:17

Mm-hmm. And had to bring her home.

SPEAKER_04 13:19

And Johnny kept on saying, Castle, you gotta buy that horse from me. And it's Johnny, I can't afford to buy the horse. I'm building a house. I don't have any money. Don't worry about it. Pay me when you get the money. Well, he offered the horse to me and Karen for $1,500. You might as well said $50,000 because we had to put every penny we had into building the house. And at that time I was teaching photography and printing at Bosey's, and I was making $9,000 a year.

SPEAKER_03 13:50

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 13:50

So there wasn't an awful lot of extra money to buy a horse. Now I already had two horses that I was boarding over at Synon Farm, and that's how I became friends with the Sinon family and uh wonderful family, good people. And so anyway, we go to go home that night, and Johnny's horse trailer is hooked up to the back of my pickup truck, and inside the horse trailer is the little Philly.

SPEAKER_01 14:17

There you go.

SPEAKER_04 14:18

And Johnny, I said, Johnny, I can't afford to pay you for the horse. He says, Castle, just pay me when you get the money. I don't care. I says, How much, Johnny? He says, Well, I was asking $5,000, but to you $1,500.

SPEAKER_01 14:32

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:33

You know, and then at that time a good mayor was bringing that kind of money. So this is how I paid for the horse. I went down to Waterman Wrecking in Pleasant Valley, uh-huh, and I bought steel.

SPEAKER_00 14:44

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 14:45

And my father-in-law, who was an idol of my, I idled that man to no end, loved him. My in-in-laws were great people. He uh he had bought me a welder.

SPEAKER_01 14:56

And there you start.

SPEAKER_04 14:58

And I still have it. It's down the barn.

SPEAKER_01 15:00

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 15:00

And I welded this trailer together and I sold it to Mr. Gersky for $1,500. Right. And I drove from Gersky's house to Connecticut. Before my wife could get her hands on the money. Sure. And I paid Johnny Chris.

SPEAKER_01 15:15

Well, that's great.

SPEAKER_04 15:16

So that's how I paid for the horse. But now we're going back and forth with the name.

SPEAKER_01 15:21

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 15:21

I want a name or one thing, and my wife wants her name and something else. So we couldn't agree on it, so we called her the Philly. So one day I said to her, look, we got to send the papers in to the Pertron Horse Association, our registration papers. We got to put a name down. And Karen looked at me and I looked at her. I can't remember which one of us said it. Felina. Let's call her Castle's Felina. So from Philly, she became Felina, and she was the foundation mayor that wound up being our life.

SPEAKER_01 15:57

Yeah, the beginning, the beginning of the legacy of your Percherons. Let's talk about those. Like let's talk about how many you've had and your teams over the years.

SPEAKER_04 16:07

If you look up there, some of the name tags are up on the wall, but we had as many as 12 here. Uh-huh. Stallion mares and working horses. And they, when we would go to Danbury Fair, we would go to a horse showing. We would go up to uh Massachusetts, up to Toppsfield. We would bring three hitches.

SPEAKER_01 16:27

Three hitches, three carriages, or three hitches. With three hitches of horses.

SPEAKER_04 16:32

18 harnesses. So you carriage.

SPEAKER_01 16:35

That's a tractor trailer load.

SPEAKER_04 16:37

That's a big trucks and trailers.

SPEAKER_01 16:40

Right, multiple.

SPEAKER_04 16:41

And then my wife would drive the camper because we towed the kids along, you know.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 16:46

They were all young. So the kids grew up in the horse business. And we could literally, as they got older, we could literally get to a horse show and hook up a six-horse hitch, harness them and have them hooked and ready to show about an hour and a half. All braided.

SPEAKER_01 17:05

That six-horse hitch, they're hitched to a wagon.

SPEAKER_04 17:08

Yeah, they call them now a brewery wagon. Okay. But back in the day, they were delivery wagons. Okay. And there was light, medium, and heavy. And the wagon that I built originally was a medium delivery wagon. So I built it back. I I went all over.

SPEAKER_01 17:28

And their purpose really was to move Move goods. Move goods. Talk about a day in a life and a pertron here in your face.

SPEAKER_04 17:36

You know, one of the things, and there's people probably aren't going to like me to say this, but one of the things I always liked about a Protron is I always felt that they were smarter than the other draft breeds. And I and I will still say that today.

SPEAKER_01 17:51

I might make it easier to train.

SPEAKER_04 17:53

They they just wheeled. What they used to do when the armies were on a campaign, they literally kept the horses when the weather was cold, they kept the horses in the tents with them. And the horses are very acclimated to being around people.

SPEAKER_01 18:09

So they're smart and they have a temperament, like a personality. They're brave, you've mentioned that.

SPEAKER_04 18:17

They're brave. And you once you get them trained, they've been acclimated to different situations. I mean, we do East Indian weddings, and they're the wildest weddings you ever want to go to. I mean, there's 5,000 people. And when you present, you present the groom to the bride on your carriage, you have the groom, and you you drive down through a column of flags on both sides, and you got men that are waving these flags. And then every man, there's a woman, and she's not tossing petals of flowers, she's tossing flowers. And she tosses the flowers over the horses, hit the driver into the back of the carriage.

SPEAKER_01 19:07

And they don't flinch at all.

SPEAKER_04 19:08

And they just keep driving, doing what you want them to do, you know. And they shower a beautiful flowers. Between them, there's guys with these great big trumpets. Oh, boo. Boo, pr boo, pr-boop, boop, boop. You know, great big long trumpets. And you say, My God, how could I ever drive a horse like that? Yeah. But these horses have been doing this type of stuff for years. They don't, it doesn't even phase them.

SPEAKER_01 19:32

Yeah. You you know, you think about you use the word drive a team of horses. And to the average person, I don't think they really understand what that means. You are actually sitting on top of a wagon and you are controlling whether it be a two-per two-horse hitch, four-horse, and by controlling, it's through talk, talk to me about what that is.

SPEAKER_04 19:56

They're they're listening for you.

SPEAKER_01 19:58

They're listening for you because you're talking about it. Yes.

SPEAKER_04 20:01

And and my wife, when she would drive at some of the shows in the ladies' cart class, uh-huh. And she would drive whatever horse she would be her favorite at the time, which was fine. And she used to drive Felina a lot. Right. She drove Felina a lot at years ago in the shows, and she did quite well with her. But Felina would know that she was nervous.

SPEAKER_01 20:28

Would know that your wife was nervous. She was nervous. So she was.

SPEAKER_04 20:30

She could hear it in her voice.

SPEAKER_01 20:32

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 20:32

And she could they I swear they could feel it in the driving lines.

SPEAKER_01 20:37

And those lines are those long range. Yeah. And tell me how long that could be.

SPEAKER_04 20:43

Oh God, let's see. You've got to be 50, 60 feet out in front of you, though, the leaders.

SPEAKER_01 20:49

It's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 20:50

But you know, we would do demonstrations with the hitch down at Belmont Racetrack, and Budweiser still does it today with eight. And incidentally, one of the young men named Eric Soto drives the Budweiser hitch, apprenticed with my family and I.

SPEAKER_01 21:10

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 21:11

As a young man. And I have pictures of him driving one, uh probably Diesel, one of our older horses, at horse shows when he was a kid. And uh his dad ran the Budweiser breeding farm.

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Yeah, you mentioned that.

SPEAKER_04 21:27

And uh he had three sons. And we we love his three sons. He this man raised three, the best young men you ever want to ask for. And they're Clydesdale. So I have to like Clydesdales, you know. But my preference always goes back to the Pertron because I just intrinsically have this inner the connection, attachment.

SPEAKER_01 21:53

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 21:54

That I if I take count out and I walk him down to the barn, I'll put him in the cross. Tiger Count, do you love me? Mm-hmm. If you love me, give me a kiss. Comes over and he kisses me.

SPEAKER_01 22:05

I was gonna ask you that because you mentioned that comment about Felina and your wife being nervous and the connection.

SPEAKER_04 22:14

The horse would know it.

SPEAKER_01 22:15

Understand, and they're not next to each other. I mean they're out front.

SPEAKER_04 22:20

The horse is out, you know, it's in a cart, so the lines might be 12 feet long, you know. And uh that horse knows that the person driving it is nervous through the tone of their voice and the inflection. Uh I always said they could feel it through the lines, but it's probably through the tone of their voice, you know. But you know, you handle your driving lines in a certain manner, isn't it? And uh when I was filming the scene for the Gilded Age with the stagecoach, we were out in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and I had four horses that they hired out there to look like the four horses that we have here. Right. Driving this different stagecoach, but they you you wouldn't know it.

SPEAKER_01 23:04

Right.

SPEAKER_04 23:04

You know, so they they found four horses.

SPEAKER_01 23:06

Only in the movies, right, Frank?

SPEAKER_04 23:08

Yeah. I love it.

SPEAKER_01 23:10

Uh-huh. That's great.

SPEAKER_04 23:11

You know, to spend your life doing things that you love. I loved the business I had. You know, I I did a lot of work for the fairgrounds. I I loved producing things, making things. I guess it might be part of my Sicilian heritage, you know. I gotta be keeping my hands busy, you know, doing stuff. Do you the horses? When you're training them, they trust you. They they you develop a trust with them.

SPEAKER_01 23:40

And is it is it how you look at them? Is it because you feed them?

SPEAKER_04 23:45

Or is it not just because you look and feed, the way you handle them.

SPEAKER_01 23:49

Uh-huh. With certainty or confidence or with kindness.

SPEAKER_04 23:53

Kindness. You know, and I'm not a big believer in training a horse by punishing them. Uh I can I can tell you a story about a pair of mares that I sold to somebody. I won't go any further than that.

SPEAKER_03 24:08

Yep. Did you know?

SPEAKER_04 24:09

I won't mention any names. But I sold this man a pair of mares, and I I would go out and I'd get home from work at night, I'd come home, I'd go down by the paddock, I'd whistle, they'd come up to the paddock, I'd put a halter on them, I'd open the gate, and they'd walk, and they could go down the road if they wanted. They'd walk in the barn and go into their stall, take care of them, brush them up, we'd hook them up and drive them.

SPEAKER_01 24:35

Right.

SPEAKER_04 24:35

These two mares were the most friendly, warmest mares because the way we raised them. Sure. It's just the way you raise a dog. If you raise a pit bull to be kind and people-oriented, you're not gonna have trouble with that pit bull.

SPEAKER_01 24:49

Any animal.

SPEAKER_04 24:50

You know, if you raise them to be mean, yeah, you're gonna have a problem. But it like, yeah, any animal. Yeah. So it's the way you raise them, it's the way you handle them, it's the way you treat them. Now, I always, before I start training a horse, if he came in here and I didn't raise him from a baby, I wanted them to know that I was gonna be kind to them. But they they also have to know that there's limits. And they have to, and you you teach them that just with a halter and a and a chain under their nose, or under their chin rather, or over their nose, depending on their temperament. And you make them behave, but you don't brutalize them.

SPEAKER_01 25:29

Right.

SPEAKER_04 25:29

Now, the guy that I sold this team of horses to, this team of mares, wanting to breed pertrons, and they were a good, good young team of mares, would have been very good for that. Called me up in a couple of weeks. He says, Frank, he said, I can't even catch those mares. He said, I go out in the field, he says, all they do is run away from me.

SPEAKER_03 25:49

Uh-oh.

SPEAKER_04 25:50

I said, uh-oh, I've got a problem here. I'll be over on the weekend and look. I said, All right, show me what you're having trouble with. He goes out. Finally, he caught one of the mares and he snapped the chain over her nose, you know. And he goes, he gets, got that one to go in the barn, and then the other one wanted to come in because they were mates, you know, together. And he catches the other one and he starts walking it, and she did a little dance, and he snapped the chain over the top of her nose. And I said, Oh boy, there's your problem right there. So he got him in the barn. I said, Turn him back out in the field, take the halters off. He says, Why? I said, I'm gonna show you something. Turned him back out in the field. I walked over to my truck, I got a bottle of water, I drank the water, let the horses settle down. Yeah, I walked up by the fence and called them. They walked up to the fence, they saw me, put their head down, I put the halter on them and walked them into the barn. Two of them together. You know?

SPEAKER_03 26:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 26:48

I said, you know what your problem is, don't you? The guy who trained you is your problem. Right. And and he was a guy, he was a farmer from the other side of the river. He's dead now, but he he treated his livestock rough. Right. And this guy got his training from this farmer, and he treated his horses the way he was taught.

SPEAKER_03 27:11

Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:11

Rough.

SPEAKER_03 27:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 27:12

I says, now, if you don't want these two mares, I'm prepared to give you your money back and I'll take them home. Yeah. I said, I'll go to the bank Monday morning, because this was like a Saturday. Right. I'll get the money out of the bank, I'll give you cash, I'll pick up the horses and take them home. See, I wish you would. He says, I can't handle them.

SPEAKER_01 27:30

How long does it take to kind of build that relationship when you talk about training and that trust?

SPEAKER_04 27:36

Is it it depends when you get the horse? Uh-huh. See, if I bought a stranger's horse in here, you wouldn't know. And I wouldn't start training them for a week or two or three, or even a month. After I handled it, after I talked to it, after the horse understood I wanted to pick its foot up, I I, you know, clean the dirt out from its foot with a hoof pick. I I would brush it, I would talk to it, I would stroke it. And the horse knew the parameters. When you were leading it, it had to be behave, it had to stay to the side of you, not step on your feet.

SPEAKER_01 28:12

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:13

If it did, you got a little sharp, but not much. Once that animal figures out your operation, then you could start training it. And I would say 90, 95% of the time that's successful. There's always that 5% that maybe you weren't successful with, but then you had to change how you did things. Your tactics a little bit.

SPEAKER_01 28:41

You modified.

SPEAKER_04 28:42

I had one horse, took me two years to break it.

SPEAKER_01 28:46

Right.

SPEAKER_04 28:46

And I thought I was doing a great job.

SPEAKER_01 28:49

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 28:50

And a buddy of mine came up from Connecticut, and I was telling him, I said, Hey, you remember that Philly that I was working on? Bah, blah, blah. I had all that trouble breaking it. Last time you were here, I didn't even have it broke. He says, Yeah. I says, let's go across the street. My neighbor had a ring across the street. It's all gone now, it's all overgrown. But I used to use the ring across the street, and it was made of four by uh railroad ties with two by fours and two by sixes all the way around. So it was heavily built.

SPEAKER_01 29:20

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:21

And he was a farrier and a horse trainer. He just passed away a couple of years ago. But uh we went across the street and I had a braking cart over there. And I'm an Italian, they call me a gacun.

SPEAKER_01 29:35

Uh tell me what a braking cart is.

SPEAKER_04 29:38

It's a two-wheel cart. I I made it. It was made out of pipe. Just to kind of hit get them to get it kind of like a four-cart that you would use to pull an implement with.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 29:49

So you're kind of like two wheels, pair of springs, and I made shafts out of a pipe, you know, inch and a half pipe. It was something that was built sturdy, so the horse started bucking or kicking, they didn't break it apart.

SPEAKER_01 30:01

Were you sitting in that cart?

SPEAKER_04 30:03

Well, not yet. I'm harnessing the horse, and I was telling you, in Italian, they call me a geck, you know, and I never shut up. You could tell. So I'm telling telling my friend about all the experience I had with this horse. I'm talking and talking. I never hooked up the driving lines to the bit. They were still hanging over the haymes. I get on the cart and I cluck to the horse, who was still a very high-spirited. And away I went. We were on one end of the ring, and she went straight for the other end. And when she got to the end of the ring, she jumped.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Oh boy.

SPEAKER_04 30:44

And she cleared the forefoot.

SPEAKER_01 30:47

With human toe, huh?

SPEAKER_04 30:49

And I went flying out the back, and the cart hit the fence. Yeah. And everything blew apart. Oh boy. She got to the other side and the collar was up around her ears. Yeah. She puts her head down and starts eating.

SPEAKER_01 31:04

Said, see, I'll show you.

SPEAKER_04 31:06

I said, Oh boy. How stupid can could one guy get?

SPEAKER_01 31:09

So tell me a little bit about like a day in the life of a percheron here on your farm. What did they do?

SPEAKER_04 31:16

Well, right now they got a pretty easy life.

SPEAKER_01 31:18

They do. Yeah. They're not working too hard. They're hanging out through the weekend.

SPEAKER_04 31:21

We use them primarily on weekends for special events. In a fall up at the fairgrounds. Okay. And I we do rides up there, and uh the man who runs the craft fair hires us. Uh we do a lot of weddings down at West Point. Uh, and I have a carriage that belonged to Teddy Roosevelt that I restored years ago. So a lot of West Pointers like the history behind that. Sure. But then a lot of the brides like the white vis-a-vis carriage. So it's uh the white carriage, it's got red upholstery, and we decorate the carriages.

SPEAKER_01 32:04

So that's part of the castle carriage carriage.

SPEAKER_04 32:07

Yeah, castle carriage service. And then the other part is the Warrior Wagon Veterans Appreciation Project.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

Yeah. And uh I'd like to talk a little bit about that and kind of you know how that came about, and um, you know, building the warrior wagon and you know, an honor to our servicemen. And uh, you know, it's really incredible that you you've done that for the community in the area and you know, bringing a team of horses to kind of promote those veterans. Tell me a little bit about the warrior wagon.

SPEAKER_04 32:40

Well, it started with Pleasant Valley, and we always we've been active in Pleasant Valley for years. I would take Santa Claus around to the schools, right?

SPEAKER_01 32:53

Uh this is your team of horses and a wagon, and we decorate it for Christmas.

SPEAKER_04 32:59

Right. We'd go to West Road School, and we'd go to Traver Road School, those are two primary schools in Pleasant Valley. And uh we always took Santa Claus. I'd be the driver, I'd be the elf, yeah, and Jack Haverty, who's I know Jack, yeah. Jack is uh Jack and I were good friends, and uh he died a number of years ago, and uh he would be Santa Claus. Yeah, and and we had so much fun doing it. We always used to look forward to doing it, and the kids loved it. So uh they they asked me to do a parade around 2009 or 10, somewhere around there, in Pleasant Valley, and uh it was uh Memorial Day parade. So I said, sure, I'd do it. And they said, Well, can you bring a six-horse hitch? I said, Well, let me talk to my son-in-law, because at that time my son-in-law, my daughters, and myself and Karen, we were showing together with the six, and uh, and Andre Bollinger. Right. Andre, the two families, three families actually, we showed together. So they all agreed, and we set up at West Road School, yeah, and I had my big hitch wagon, which to get up on the seat, it's probably I we could guess I it's about six feet high.

SPEAKER_01 34:23

I was gonna say higher than that.

SPEAKER_04 34:24

Yeah, to get up on the back. And I bought a good stepladder, you know, when that goes out like a triangle. And uh we got to West Road School, we got all hooked up, and some of the vets started to come, and a couple of them came that were very immobile.

SPEAKER_01 34:42

Right.

SPEAKER_04 34:43

And I said, Oh boy, how the heck we got to get them up on the on the way. I had made benches for the back, right? But we had to get them up there.

SPEAKER_01 34:51

Yep.

SPEAKER_04 34:51

So I said, you know what? Let me call a rescue squad. Some big farmer type guys come over here and help me get them up without these guys getting hurt.

SPEAKER_01 35:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 35:01

So I called them up. I said, look, don't make an emergency out of it. Just tell some of the guys if they can meet us over at West Road School. Yeah. Because they always participate in the parade as well.

SPEAKER_03 35:10

They do.

SPEAKER_04 35:11

I said, help me get them on the wagon, then afterwards help me get them off so nobody gets hurt. So that's what they did.

SPEAKER_01 35:17

So that was kind of the beginning of the warrior wagon.

SPEAKER_04 35:20

I I get these ideas at night. You know, I toss and turn on my my mind's going, and the wheels are turning. I said, you know what? I'm gonna build a purpose wagon.

SPEAKER_01 35:31

Isn't that great?

SPEAKER_04 35:32

Something with a wheelchair lift and stairs that are accessible for people that have a hard time walking. And we had a little platform that we put out so that if the guys could go up the stairs, they'd step on the platform, then go up three stairs, had handle on both sides. Then after they get on, everything folds up. And then the wheelchair lift also folds up. So uh I started building that in 2011. Uh I finished it around 2013. Wasn't quite finished, and uh Matt Swanson from Out in the Limb in Pleasant Valley let me use his shop during the winter because my shop isn't heated. And uh he uh let me use his shop and his welders and his bandsaw and stuff, and I made a lot of the stuff there over the winter.

SPEAKER_01 36:26

So you fabricated this wagon to accommodate the veterans.

SPEAKER_04 36:30

The plans there's four are on the back of that brochure that I gave you. Yep. And that was my initial thought. I drew that up, and then one of the guys that worked for me in the print shop kind of made it a little better than my stick drawing. But I started looking for a running gear that I could a heavy running gear that I could make a heavy wagon out of. Yeah, but I wanted something that had a military background or feel, connotation, that you could see the military in it. So I turned around and I would go on the internet, bad habit. I go to auction sites, all of a sudden this gear shows up, and there's a picture of it in that brochure.

SPEAKER_01 37:16

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 37:17

This gear shows up, it's in Alaska.

SPEAKER_01 37:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:19

I said, I'll bid on it, and then I'll try to figure out how to get it home. Because I know a lot of military guys, you know.

SPEAKER_03 37:26

Right.

SPEAKER_04 37:27

So I bid a dollar and nobody else bit on it. Next thing I know, bingo, I win the thing for a dollar. But it's up in Alaska at an Air Force base. Okay, now, Frank, how are you gonna get it home? So I started making some calls and some inquiries, and there was, I don't know if I pronounced this right, addigant. I think that's the correct pronunciation. He was in charge of the dispersal of surplus equipment.

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 37:56

And I told him that I had won the bid and what I was gonna do with it. He says, Well, he says, how do I know that this is the real deal? I says, Well, I'll tell you what. How much of a donation you want me to make to the uh USO?

SPEAKER_03 38:12

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_04 38:13

He says, You'll make a donation? I says, yeah, you tell me how much. He says, How's $2,500? He says, I'll get it to the states for you.

SPEAKER_01 38:21

That's it.

SPEAKER_04 38:22

That's great. I says, I'll make the donation, I'll send you a copy of the check, and I'll send you a copy of the cancel check. So now it wound up getting in a C5A. I wanted to get it to Stuart.

SPEAKER_03 38:35

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 38:35

But it got to California, and the guy in California that was in charge of doing the same type of thing and want nothing to do with it. He was afraid, you know, get in trouble and what have you. So I said, oh boy, how am I gonna get it from there? So finally I got a hold of a guy in Bethesda, Maryland, at the base. And I told him what was going on. I showed him, I mailed them pictures of or uh copies of the checks, told him how I bought it and what I was gonna build. I had the drawings done by then. I showed him what I was gonna build. He said, Boy, that sounds like a great project. He said, I'll get it down here to Maryland for you. He says, Can you get it once it gets to Maryland? I said, No problem. Right. You know, Maryland's an easy shop for me.

SPEAKER_00 39:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 39:20

So I got it to Maryland, and then I was still running my printing business, the carriage business, taking care of the farm and showing horses. So I didn't have a lot of extra time.

SPEAKER_01 39:31

Right.

SPEAKER_04 39:31

So I'm thinking to myself, I got a hold of a trucker that I knew that run up and down the coast with cars and stuff. Yeah. I says, can you pick this running gear up for me? And what it was, it was used to de-ice airplanes. But they took all the de-icing equipment off of it. But it still weighed about three tons because it had all the peripheral equipment, you know, the framing and so forth, which I knew I was gonna cut off. I wanted the main part of the gear.

SPEAKER_01 40:02

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:03

So the guy charged me 400 bucks to bring it up from Bethesda, Maryland, up to Poughkeepsie. He dropped it off at my print shop, and then I towed it home. And the first week I had it here, I cut, I think, I think it was close to two tons of steel off of it. And then started building it.

SPEAKER_01 40:22

That's how that's the beginning of the warrior wagon.

SPEAKER_04 40:25

In the back of my mind, I had these veterans from Pleasant Valley that couldn't get on the wagon or get off the wagon. I wanted to build a purpose wagon.

SPEAKER_01 40:36

Right.

SPEAKER_04 40:37

And then I started thinking about my father-in-law, who had been departed, World War II vet, got shot down over Germany, came back after 18 months being a prisoner of war, like 80 pounds, you know. And uh he had three daughters. I married the oldest one, and he never talked about the war to his family, because the girls. Sure. But when I was building the house, he would come out and help me. And he opened up to me.

SPEAKER_01 41:07

You got some snippets of what that experience meant.

SPEAKER_04 41:10

It meant a tremendous amount to me what his service and and how much he re loved and respected our country and how much he felt about the opportunity. When he came back, he went to work for Davy Tree Service, cutting trees, and then became a lineman for a telephone company. And when he retired, he was a district supervisor. So he was a great man, great, hard worker, and a very strong moral character.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

Back to that warrior wagon.

SPEAKER_04 41:43

Well, I dedicated that to his crew.

SPEAKER_01 41:45

To the crew.

SPEAKER_04 41:46

To the crew of uh Katie's boys that got shot down, and there's a plaque on the side of the wagon dedicating it to the crew. And then I have uh logos of each of the four branches of service on the wagon, on the wagon itself. And I made all the seats and built the whole thing just on the frame, you know. And uh the guy that helped me a lot was Jimmy Lieberman. Uh Jimmy is uh was a fireman in Arlington.

SPEAKER_01 42:16

Uh-huh. And where is the warrior wagon now?

SPEAKER_04 42:18

It's in uh Rhode Island.

SPEAKER_01 42:20

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:20

This past year I passed it on to a young Marine friend of mine. He's in his 40s now. He just retired after put in 20 years, and uh he's got a lot of connections.

SPEAKER_01 42:32

Uh-huh. And where um what kind of hitch pulls that warrior wagon?

SPEAKER_04 42:35

Well, we're still using my team, although I don't have a strong enough working. I pull it with a team. You pull it with two? As long as there's no hills.

SPEAKER_01 42:44

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 42:44

But I was telling you that Hill and Rhinebeck, we've pulled that hill with a team four or five times.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

How much does that weigh wagon?

SPEAKER_04 42:51

Well, the wagon empty is six thousand pounds. Right. We weighed it up at the fairgrounds when they had the horse pull up there in 2015. And I was surprised it weighed six thousand pounds because all I heard from my wife was, it's too goddamn heavy. What do you build it so heavy for? I want you to see, I want it to look strong. Authentic. I want I want people when they look at it to say, oh wow. Right. I don't want to build something spindly and rickety, you know what I mean? And I got a tendency to overbuild everything anyway. When I built a house, instead of using two by fours, I use a two by six. Instead of a two by eight, I'd use it.

SPEAKER_01 43:31

Just because you you wanted to make sure.

SPEAKER_04 43:33

Everything I do, I always overbuild everything.

SPEAKER_01 43:34

Augusta wind wouldn't take it over. Um, you know, what does that Warrior Wagon kind of mean to you today, and how do you think it has impacted?

SPEAKER_04 43:43

Well, the whole project community from 2014 to 2024, we honored about 600 service members, excellent, fire people, excellent. We honored people from 9 11. Uh people that went in and just volunteered. So public service primarily. It's had a lot of local firemen, local, uh, local military, and uh a lot of Vietnam vets that never got honored. Right. We were able to honor.

SPEAKER_01 44:18

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 44:19

And uh a couple of nurses that were from the Vietnam War that we honored up at the fair when we had one. We had the wagon up at the fair 2015. And uh it was very meaningful to me. Uh I'm a first-generation American. My mother and father were so proud to become Americans. Love this country so much.

SPEAKER_01 44:48

Right.

SPEAKER_04 44:49

And I always go back to Sundays on uh at our families, either either my mother's family or my father's family, but Sundays the whole family got together for dinner.

SPEAKER_01 45:00

Sure.

SPEAKER_04 45:01

And it was the most wonderful time, even as a little boy, you know. Yeah. So and they they spoke English in the house. Even my grandmother, who came here as a mature woman, yeah, on my fraternal side, spoke English. You may have been broken English, but you spoke English in the house because they were proud to be Americans.

SPEAKER_01 45:23

Let's just talk, let's go back a little bit. I want to talk about your Percherons and the horses. So, over the years, how many have you had?

SPEAKER_04 45:32

I don't really know the exact number, but I would say we probably had about 30 of them. 30. Right now, my daughter's got over 20 on her farm.

SPEAKER_01 45:40

Right. And today you have a team of geldings.

SPEAKER_04 45:43

Yeah, that's the last of them. You know, at my age, I'm not gonna start any young ones. Sure. But, you know, my son-in-law is a very good trainer. They they are extremely therapeutic for people. Uh, I have a friend of mine.

SPEAKER_01 46:02

That breed or horses in general, or it could be a pony. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 46:07

Or a donkey.

SPEAKER_01 46:08

Yeah, for sure.

SPEAKER_04 46:09

They they say, you know, I think this is verified. They say that you take a person that's having fibration with their heart. Right. What do they call it?

SPEAKER_01 46:22

A fib.

SPEAKER_04 46:23

Aphib. You rust their chest, put their arms over a horse's back, and rust their chest against that horse.

SPEAKER_01 46:30

I've heard that.

SPEAKER_04 46:31

And it'll regulate that person's heart.

SPEAKER_01 46:34

Do you know though, some people are afraid of horses? I mean, they are. But you know, they can be intimidating.

SPEAKER_04 46:39

They are intimidating.

SPEAKER_01 46:40

And you got two big, big boys out there.

SPEAKER_04 46:43

These two are the smallest ones in the hitch.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Yeah, they're just.

SPEAKER_04 46:46

They're just under a ton each.

SPEAKER_01 46:48

That's incredible.

SPEAKER_04 46:49

But the wheel horses, the ones on the wagon, they usually run 2400.

SPEAKER_01 46:53

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:54

The swing horses would be a little smaller, the middle team. And if you look at a hitch, you'll see it steps down a little bit, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:02

That just let's talk through that again, because I understand it, but I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_04 47:06

The horses closest to the wagon, that's the wheel team.

SPEAKER_01 47:09

The wheel team.

SPEAKER_04 47:10

The horses in the middle. And if it's a six-horse hitch, it's your swing.

SPEAKER_01 47:16

What's that mean?

SPEAKER_04 47:18

It's the ones in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 47:19

So they're going to switch the wheel. And then you got your lead horses. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_04 47:21

And then an eight-horse hitch, you'd have two swing teams.

SPEAKER_01 47:26

Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:27

And I don't drive eight, so I can't remember what they call them. But they have a separate swing number from one and two, you know.

SPEAKER_01 47:35

And so if you want to turn a hitch, you don't turn them with your lead horses, you turn them with your well, you you train them as a team. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 47:46

First as a single.

SPEAKER_01 47:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 47:47

I like to start as a single.

SPEAKER_01 47:49

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:50

No matter what breed it is. I like to start as a single. And then I like to put them with a team with a broke horse.

SPEAKER_01 47:57

Right.

SPEAKER_04 47:58

Get them acclimated. That's always a good thing to do. And then you could put two fairly green ones together once you know they're safe. The most important thing you do when you're breaking horses to drive is you gotta make sure you take the right step each time to be safe.

SPEAKER_01 48:18

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:18

You don't want them to get nervous and do something stupid like not hook the lines up to the bit. You know?

SPEAKER_01 48:25

Way to go, Frank. So would a swing horse eventually become a lead horse or not necessarily. Are there always gonna be swing horses? No.

SPEAKER_04 48:35

A lead horse usually has a little more aggression, drives into the lines. See, you can't drive They're the ones right out front.

SPEAKER_01 48:44

Way out front.

SPEAKER_04 48:45

You cannot drive horses with loose lines because you don't have control.

SPEAKER_01 48:50

Right.

SPEAKER_04 48:51

So they gotta be what we call into the bit. They have to have tension on their mouth. Not too much tension, but not too little tension. So they know it's gotta be just right.

SPEAKER_01 49:02

Right. Can they hear you?

SPEAKER_04 49:04

I'm sorry?

SPEAKER_01 49:05

Do you think the lead horse can they hear you?

SPEAKER_04 49:07

Oh yeah. Oh, sure, certainly.

SPEAKER_01 49:09

And what are you saying to them?

SPEAKER_04 49:11

Well, a lot of times you're just going easy. Sometimes you'll go, you'll click to them. I I drive a little different than some people drive because I don't want kids to get in my wagon and start whistling or doing, you know, I got people on there and they're they're gonna make the horses go faster. Right. So I have my own language that my horses get used to. But basically, I cluck to them. I don't cluck, I kiss to them. You know, that they know my kiss.

SPEAKER_01 49:43

Right.

SPEAKER_04 49:43

If you got in the back of the wagon and you did it, they'd say who they don't know that and they're trained not to move on your kiss.

SPEAKER_01 49:52

How about that?

SPEAKER_04 49:53

You know, so that you know it's different little subtle things that you do that you learn either from experience or from experienced people.

SPEAKER_01 50:03

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:03

But you know, most of the experience I have from driving and training comes from observation.

SPEAKER_01 50:11

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:12

And I've seen people I like the way they do things, and I've seen people I don't like the way they do things. Like the farmer that trained the horse too rough. You mentioned that. Now the guy had the horse for a couple of weeks, couldn't catch him.

SPEAKER_01 50:24

Right.

SPEAKER_04 50:25

Why?

SPEAKER_01 50:25

Did you you know would you say you have a favorite favorite perchron?

SPEAKER_04 50:31

Oh, I've had a lot of favorites, you know.

SPEAKER_01 50:33

Uh not one over the other. No, I've had meaning.

SPEAKER_04 50:37

I've had such wonderful experiences. I hate to put one over another. Sure. You know, Felina was very special to me.

SPEAKER_01 50:46

Uh-huh, because the first and so was Diesel.

SPEAKER_04 50:49

And you saw the picture of them out in the lead in the six.

SPEAKER_01 50:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 50:52

They were they were like incredible. Yeah, and magical. And I'll tell you, when when you drive, particularly with multiples, two, four, six, when you drive, there's something here that's just you could have gone out in the morning and been very lethargic. But when you start working with them and you sit up on that seat and you grab the lines, it's a game changer. It's a game changer, like it's hard to explain.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

Yeah, it's through your whole body. You know? Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 51:26

And all the draft breeds are very good. I tease about the Clydesdales.

SPEAKER_01 51:33

The Clydesdales. Yeah. Because I always familiar with them. You know. They're the pretty ones on TV. They're pretty, yeah. Yeah. They're the well-dressed Budviser horses. Thank God they've done that though.

SPEAKER_04 51:44

Oh, they do. I to this day people look at these horses. Are those Clydesdales? If I heard that 5,000 times, I've heard it will be.

SPEAKER_01 51:52

Certainly their colors different, right? For sure.

SPEAKER_04 51:54

You know, you always hear, are those Clyde's tails? Yeah. No, they're pertrons. What's a pertron? Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 52:00

Well, anyway, we've had a long, lengthy conversation here.

SPEAKER_04 52:05

Like I said, my name is Gek, you know.

SPEAKER_01 52:07

Yes, I know. And I uh I I feel like we've just, you know, just scratched the surface. Yeah, of you know, just like in closing, because again, this is sponsored by the Duchess County Agricultural Society and the fair. I want to thank you for your years of commitment and support and all that you've done. I mean, well, it's just you have to understand there you go.

SPEAKER_04 52:28

You do things like that because of the love of animals and the fair. And one of the most important things we could do, you know, I'm a member of society, you are, is keep our youth interested, keep them involved, keep them coming. Very important. The youth has to be where it's gonna be at in a few years, you know. I'm not gonna be here.

SPEAKER_02 52:52

Right.

SPEAKER_04 52:53

People, my kids aren't gonna be here after a while, and so on. Right. But you have to take the young people, and the 4H was a very important aspect of the fair and should be, you know. And we should have as much as we can involvement with youth.

SPEAKER_01 53:11

And agriculture education.

SPEAKER_04 53:12

Agriculture is very, very important. And we need to bring more young people in. Now they started that that program uh with youthful directors. What do they call that?

SPEAKER_01 53:27

Um it's an agriculture education program and it's an outreach where they're going into the schools now and kind of bringing cats.

SPEAKER_04 53:34

Very, very important. Because, you know, when my children were growing up, many of the kids that they hung around with, young adults and so forth, right, had farms, had animals, had goats, now had sheep, had chickens. Sure. You don't see as much of that now. Now a lot we had we had four draft horse hitches in Duchess County. We don't have any now.

unknown 54:03

I know.

SPEAKER_04 54:04

I'm the last I was the last person in Duchess County to clear land with our draft horse.

SPEAKER_01 54:13

That's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 54:14

And Andy Imperati's grandfather was the last person to farm in Dutchess County with horses.

SPEAKER_01 54:21

Yes, he did.

SPEAKER_04 54:23

And it's funny because when I came in, I was teaching up at Bocey's and I met uh uh sh Joan Sinon. Yeah, because Joan Sinon was teaching up there, and uh I I inquired where I could. I had two horses at the time. I didn't have any drafts. I had two quarter horses, or a quarter horse and a thoroughbred Morgan Cross. And uh she said, Well, we bought horses, and back then it was $25 a horse a month. And Michael was the care caregiver. And I think a lot of that family, the sign-ins mean an awful lot to me. Yeah, and they've done a lot for the Duchess County Agricultural Society and the community at Stewie and Joan and the kids, the girls, and Michael, just a great, great family. And there's a good example growing up on the farm, growing up with horses with cows, with pigs, with chickens. Right. I mean very important that that gives responsibility to young people.

SPEAKER_01 55:26

For sure.

SPEAKER_04 55:27

You know, it's that and it's real, real important. I can't overstress how important that is.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

You're not gonna learn it on the internet, are you?

SPEAKER_04 55:36

No, no, and you're not gonna learn it off a kiosk. No, you know, you gotta get involved, you gotta see it, you gotta touch it, you gotta smell it. And sometimes it don't smell so good.

SPEAKER_01 55:47

Right.

SPEAKER_04 55:47

But you know what? When I walk down the barn after a hard day's work, nothing smells better, does it? I don't mind smelling horse shit.

SPEAKER_01 55:54

Yeah, you know, kind of clears your head. Yeah, I love it. It grounds you for sure. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 56:00

Smells good to me.

SPEAKER_01 56:01

Great, great. Anyway, um, thank you again, Frank. Appreciate the conversation.

SPEAKER_04 56:06

Oh my gosh, I like I know I enjoy the fair. My biggest, my biggest interest or desire is to see more young people get involved. Well, the more programs that the fair can put together and get out to young people, the better it's gonna be.

SPEAKER_01 56:25

Well, that's the goal of today. That's that's the goal of today's podcast.

SPEAKER_04 56:29

That that's the woman's put up with me for 53 years.

SPEAKER_01 56:32

And the podcast series. You know, the reason to do it is again for agriculture education to give our community a little bit of a glimpse of the farms, uh the families, and what really happens here in Duchess Counties. Frank, thank you for sharing your story and for the incredible work you're doing to preserve both agricultural tradition and community connection. Draft horses like the Percheron remind us that agriculture has always been built on partnership between people, animals, and the land. And through the warrior wagon, you've shown us that these traditions can help serve a higher purpose, honoring the men and women who have given so much disservice to our country. To our listeners, thank you for joining us for the meaningful conversation. If you've enjoyed this episode, please like, share, and follow the podcast and help us continue telling the stories that keep agriculture alive and relevant for future generations. Thank you for listening to the Duchess County Fair, a legacy of agriculture and community podcast. Our mission with this series is to celebrate the people, farms, and traditions that keep agriculture strong here in Duchess County. If you've enjoyed today's episode, we encourage you to like and share this podcast on your social media channels and help us tell the stories of agriculture in our community. By sharing these episodes, you help shine a light on the farmers, producers, and agricultural stewards who make such an important contribution to our region. Be sure to mark your calendars for the 180th anniversary of the Duchess County Fair. Opening day kicks off on Tuesday, August 25th, and the fair runs through August 30th in beautiful Rhinebeck, New York. I'm your host, Suzanne Roitze, and we'll see you next time as we continue celebrating a legacy of agriculture and community in Dutchess County.