Missed the Boat: A Survivor First-Watch Podcast

Survivor superfan Murjanatu brings her best friend Lucas, a total newbie, along for the ride as they watch and react to Survivor 50: In the Hands of the Fans.

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Missed the Boat: A Survivor First-Watch Podcast

Survivor 50 Episode 4 "Knife to the Heart"

March 22, 2026 • Lucas Graden, Murjanatu Mutuwa • Season 1 • Episode 4

0:00 | 52:14

Lucas and Murjanatu are back to discuss this week's episode of Survivor 50: In the Hands of Zac Brown Band!

The Survivor veteran and first-time watcher have very different reactions to the "greatest ever reward in the history of Survivor," as well as the gameplay leading to this week's elimination.

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SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Mist the Boat, a Survivor First Watch podcast.

SPEAKER_02 0:04

Okay, okay. Well, your first time, Lucas. I'm a lifelong fan. I am Rajanatou, one of your co-hosts, and your resident survivor super fan.

SPEAKER_00 0:14

And I'm Lucas, a survivor newbie.

SPEAKER_02 0:16

Each week I will guide my best friend here through Survivor as we react to the iconic season 50 together.

SPEAKER_00 0:23

This week, Survivor 50 episode 4, Knife to the Heart. Let's dive in.

SPEAKER_02 0:29

Alright, Lucas. I just want to hear first things first. Give me your key takeaways from this episode.

SPEAKER_00 0:35

This was a wild episode, and I watched it a little bit differently. I this is the first one just that I have re-watched of the season so far, and I really enjoyed it. I am loving Survivor.

SPEAKER_02 0:55

Really? Okay, because like it was the lowest rated episode in the show's history. According to like a Reddit article, so I'm not sure how valid that is. Okay. Um, and so it's so funny that this is the one that won you over. Interesting. And that had something to do with a certain celebrity.

SPEAKER_00 1:13

Well, yes. Well, oh, you know, I've seen I've seen that. You've seen the discourse. I've seen some of the discourse online. I will get into it. I really expected to hate it. Yeah. And I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 1:28

Okay, that's good.

SPEAKER_00 1:29

So we'll, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 1:30

I'm you are the only one. I like this was the episode I had the hardest time I texted you this. I was like, this is the hardest one for me not to text you my feelings and thoughts because I was like, what is happening? I kept telling my husband, I'm like, I am humiliated that Lucas is watching this right now. And it's in the fact that I'm winning over. I'm like, okay, never mind, hands up, I'm not gonna complain about it.

SPEAKER_00 1:52

It's so funny. Maybe I liked it because I I'm like, yeah, this is survivor. Like this, oh gosh. We were just like, it's so commercialized, but you know, we can get there, we can get there. For sure. I think that moment I found pretty touching on the whole. Okay, good. And I really enjoyed the gameplay, as we'll get into, and I'm yeah, I don't want to say too much, but I felt both like satisfied with the gameplay of certain characters on the losing tribe and how everything shaped up. And the challenge was wild. Yeah. We'll get into that, but overall, I was like, I'm feeling very in it for this.

SPEAKER_02 2:42

Good. Oh, I'm like so happy to hear that. I think you know, the point of this podcast is really to see like what you like and don't like and like what a newbie clings to versus doesn't. And so that's so funny as a loyalist that I was like maybe off taken off guard by this episode, but you liked it. I did. That's great. Well, let's start, let's get it, let's get into it. Yeah, so we get to the island of Vatu, and you're just seeing everyone's reactions to last week's episode, last week's boot.

SPEAKER_00 3:11

They I said that they were reeling, like, and I think Steph in particular is like, whoa, what just happened? I was super out of the loop. But also, and this does seem to, I think, is a trend that will continue. I made a comment, I think, last episode about just all of the night vision and them all. Because so much is happening post-tribal. I think we're gonna keep seeing more of that as they are reacting to the the eliminations. There is something I had a question about after this. Angelina is like, I really thought I might be going home. I was prepared to use my shot in the dark, but I didn't. They talk about shot in the dark a couple of times in this episode, and part of me wants to know what that is, and part of me doesn't want to know what it is.

SPEAKER_02 4:00

I think it's fair that you know what it is, just so you know this element of gameplay before maybe it's actually like happening. Okay. So the shot in the dark, you can each tribal, if you are at tribal council, instead of voting, you can play your shot in the dark. And it is, I believe it's a die, and then you we don't see it, but someone is either like, is it I guess rolling the die. We don't ever actually see exactly how it happens, but it's a one in six chance that they're safe. So it's just like not safe, not safe, not safe, safe. Oh and then so then if one person like so if Angelina says, Hey, I'm not gonna vote, I'm gonna play my shot in the dark, and you only use it once in the entire game, she'll use it and then she has a one in six chance of being safe, and no votes counted for her will count.

SPEAKER_00 4:44

Interesting. So it is it's like if you don't have an idol, but you think you're the target, right? That's your like last chance to save yourself.

SPEAKER_02 4:55

Okay, you lose your vote. So if like it's you know something like a 3-2 situation and you need to be that third, so it's not a tie, because people will feel a little betrayed by you if you shot in the dark if they were trusting you. For sure. So it is like a little bit complex. Stephanie is so funny because she's just her first thing that she says when she comes, she's like, Well, thanks for keeping me. Like, she's like trying to suck up to everybody.

SPEAKER_00 5:18

She's like, Thanks, guys. As if she's not, as I said at the end of last week's episode, like in a pit of snakes. She's like, Oh, now I need to find new friends.

SPEAKER_02 5:27

Right, and I think that like there is this vibe for some reason this season and some other seasons that like two cares about strength, like, let's just let's get out of the people we want to get out. And I think Ozzy to me felt like when he was defending the choice, like, yeah, this is just our opportunity to get out one of the biggest threats in the game. I was like, who told you Q is one of the biggest threats in the game? Like, I think he was a number for you, and he could have helped you guys not get to your fate this episode.

SPEAKER_00 5:54

The the challenge element definitely comes into play where they sacrificed Q and it seems to be showing in their challenge performance. Ozzy, though, is like, nope, I'm just here for the gameplay. I'm here for Mike. Which this is where he really decides to like set his sights on Mike White, and he's like, I he's kind of in in the model of almost like an abuser, being like, I need to isolate Mike so that I'm the only person that he can rely on in the game, and that I'm his number one and he doesn't have anybody else.

SPEAKER_02 6:25

Well, and I was just like, Ozzy, in what world are you gonna backstab this person and then become their number one? Like, if you can maybe play it off as it's anybody else's plan, but no one else wants to go for Angelina, it's not looking like I'm gonna, you know, side with you when you vote at my BFF.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

I didn't I didn't really understand that, and we also just haven't seen them together. I would love to hear, like, if Mike and Ozzie were actually like hanging out on the beach and we just didn't see that footage. Maybe. Yeah, but it was it was funny, and I I made the note like ask Lucas how he feels about the get Mike away from Angelina campaign.

SPEAKER_00 7:02

Yeah, in I think you're right that if that happened, how do you then say I've been the spearhead of this campaign to get out one of your closest friends?

SPEAKER_02 7:13

And now you can rely on like I don't think he's maybe enough of a mastermind to I think he like knows that, but he still doesn't like recognize that if that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 7:24

This felt and I guess he's lost Suri, right, in the tribe swap. I do feel like Ozzy is working on his strategy game in a way that before maybe he was like, I just need to stay with Siri, she's gonna like play the social game for me. I feel like he's trying to strategize now that he's on his own.

SPEAKER_02 7:45

It's interesting because with this season, you know, it's almost like so much of it is people trying not to be what they were before. They reference their old games a lot. And I think what's interesting is does that just create other failures? Because Ozzy is now trying to be strategic, but to two of us, pretty social people, we're like, hey, that's not how you win some voting out your best friend isn't actually how you win someone over. And that's just like not in his calculation, but in his mind, he's like, Oh, a social game is getting rid of his closest people so I can be number one. You can't force that kind of thing, like in the same way, I'm not gonna come back and be a challenge beast because I just it's just not in my DNA. I have to learn to play the game how I play.

SPEAKER_00 8:29

Yeah, very interesting. I I did have a thought during the credits this time around. We didn't have it for the first couple of episodes. I think it's because most of the shots that they use in the credits are from challenges in the first two episodes. So I don't know if it was like a spoiler thing. They didn't want people going over the footage frame by frame and seeing what tribe people were gonna be on before you actually watch it in the show. But it's really just from the water challenge, like where Aubrey misses the thing and has to climb back up. And they use a shot of her jumping to hit that in the credits, and then the mud challenge from one of the early episodes. So I think that might be why they held off the credits.

SPEAKER_02 9:15

It's weird, it's still a little weird. They did it after the second, like the first one, maybe, but I mean, whatever. I think it's fun. I like how it adds, and I I think you notice too, probably like you when you start to miss the characters because they're gone. So it's cool to see them again. To see them there. It's so funny because like compared to Vatu, the other two tribes are just like having a good old time. Everyone's like you said, reeling in Vatu from Q's Loss, and like meanwhile, like Rizzo's doing Mickey Mouse impressions at Sila.

SPEAKER_00 9:43

The Sila, this is when I knew I I had picked the right tribe to be championing, to see the women just like lording over the boys as they were judging. Judging the talent show. Um, Devin Struggles, Rizzo does his Mickey Mouse impression. Jonathan and Charlie have a great staged fight, which they seemed the clear winner to me.

SPEAKER_02 10:11

To me as well. You know, I'm a big WWE girl or maybe moderate. I don't know. I don't even I am a low-level WWE girl, and so I was cracking up at that, and I was like, okay, like Rizzo obviously mastered that in sixth grade and just like for just kept doing it. I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 10:28

This other thing took coordination and two different people. I think Camilla says, I haven't heard Mickey Mouse since I was 12. Girl, I've heard Mickey Mouse more recently, and that wasn't the best Mickey Mouse impression I've ever heard. Like, it was fine, but I was I could not believe that they unanimously voted first place.

SPEAKER_02 10:51

I know I really thought the fake fight deserved more credit. I don't know what they're doing. And then we go to Kalu, and like Aubrey is idol hunting. Like, it is so funny. The different vibes on each tribe, and Aubrey's just like, I just need some alone time.

SPEAKER_00 11:07

Yes, but in the meanwhile, Genevieve is braiding Coach's hair. Right. I thought it looked great. And I noticed, yeah, these other tribes are just really having like a slice of life, just go on too. Kumbaya. And Aubrey is out. She's not resting on the laurels of having one idol. She needs another. And Genevieve is like out with her hands to her lips, shouting, Aubrey, Aubrey.

SPEAKER_02 11:36

She was like, We were scared for you. It was like Genevieve, no, you weren't. You knew she was idol hunting, which is so interesting because like no one knows Aubrey has this idol except for everyone at Motto. Now that I think about it, because of Emily. But it's funny that, like, on her own tribe, even though they did the bag search, they're thinking it's secured. Aubrey looking, you know, goes to that. But what happens when Aubrey, when Genevieve is like chasing Aubrey?

SPEAKER_00 12:02

As soon as they have their little coded conversation and like make faces to the cameras, they just split up immediately again. And I was like, did they just both like okay, bye, and go all idol hunting themselves? Yeah. But Genevieve finds it.

SPEAKER_02 12:18

She looks like she's looking for it.

SPEAKER_00 12:20

Yeah, another Billie Eilish boomerang idol.

SPEAKER_02 12:22

She did seem like very disappointed that it was another Billie Eilish boomerang idol. Like, I think she was like, okay, no strings attached this time, hopefully. Like, no, she has another one. I do think her gut is right though in giving it to Rizzo.

SPEAKER_01 12:35

Mm-hmm.

SPEAKER_00 12:36

I I definitely hope Rizzo is. Rizzo feels like somebody who could definitely be voted out without ever realizing that the target is on his back. He is just so full of confidence and self-belief.

SPEAKER_02 12:51

Right. Well, and the interesting thing, I mean, I just can't stand it. He's like, every season this happens to me. Like, I'm like, you've only put on two seasons, they're a month apart. Like, I get it. It's true, it's technically every season, but man, you did nothing to deserve this.

SPEAKER_00 13:04

I was thinking about that though. And I do wonder how his gameplay would change after seeing fan reaction. Because there was no time between filming season 49 and season 50. He doesn't have a sense of his like public opinion. And I wonder if he were to go back now and play how fan reactions to his gameplay would or wouldn't change that. I was thinking about you telling me how there was like no time between them. And I do think that's influencing his self-perception.

SPEAKER_02 13:41

He just was that way also in season 49. Just so I mean he called himself the Riz God from landing on the island when he had nothing to prove or nothing to show from it. So I do think he is just like a cocky man. One of the like press, I don't even remember where this clip is from, but they were asking everyone what song like represents their survivor journey. And he said, This is me by the Jonas Brothers and Demi Lovato. He's like, love me or hate me, this is who I am.

SPEAKER_00 14:09

That is the most likable thing he's actually ever said. So now I'm kind of on his side.

SPEAKER_02 14:16

Rylus is like, okay, he's owning off to it. And so it was interesting. One thing that I do think is important to note, I'm gonna give you a little bit of a spoiler from season 49. Rizzo had an idol that everyone knew about from like early on in the game, and every single tribal counselor said, Well, I'm playing this today, and then wouldn't play it. And he no one voted for him because they thought they would burn the idol. So he made it all the way to Final Four by just saying he was gonna play an idol without ever doing it. So him getting an idol is actually kind of a big deal because that is his gameplay.

SPEAKER_00 14:47

Yeah, that was like key to his gameplay. Interesting. The other thing I noticed when Genevieve found this idol that I just had to shout out was she does a little dragon slayer.

SPEAKER_02 14:59

Like, I know she's so cute.

SPEAKER_00 15:02

Spoof of coach, which I really enjoyed. And then she talks about like, sorry, I'm not gonna tell anyone. And she sounded super Canadian.

SPEAKER_02 15:09

She is Canadian.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

That was one of my questions. Yes.

SPEAKER_02 15:14

On the top of my head, I'm not thinking anyone else is Canadian. I could be wrong. Save it in the comments, but I am like, I know that Genevieve is Canadian. Yes. And then we go over to the challenge, and we just keep hearing about this huge reward in addition to immunity.

SPEAKER_00 15:31

Before we even get to the reward, I was honestly like breathtaken by the intro shot. They have this drone shot that starts out on the water, on the ledges, over the boats, onto the and it just kept going. I this challenge setup was never ending, and I was really impressed by um the cinematic entry to the challenge. And we get the the tribes gathering on the mat, and they are shocked to see that Q was eliminated. And maybe they were like, How are they gonna compete in the challenges? Especially Dee.

SPEAKER_02 16:07

It's like that's wild. I know. And they show Tiff, and Tiff looks a little bit relieved. Tiff and Q had a very like they played together and it was love-hate relationship. Um, and I think she's she seemed a little relieved. Like, I just don't have to deal with that because they never were actually on the same tribe, and so that was nice. But yeah, I I agree. People are probably like, how are you gonna? I mean, I know Mike White has abs now, but that does not equal a challenge with.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

I have to say, as we get into the greatest reward in the history of all Survivor, Jeff says, This season is in the hands of the fans, and we had one fan who wanted to come to Fiji. And I felt like this tribe, like the castaways' original reaction to that was like, aww. And they, in my mind, and I could be projecting, I think misunderstood Jeff and thought that he was saying that, like, oh, we flew like an average fan out to Fiji to like meet the castaways. And I, which is kind of what we talked about. Yeah, if random Marie from Portland or whatever got to come and dictate some of the rules of the game or be a part of the reward, and I feel like that's what the castaways wanted to, or at least what they originally thought, and are like, oh, that's so sweet, that's so nice, and then it is very much not that.

SPEAKER_02 17:27

And it's weird, it's like in the hands of the fans, we want you to be fans of the star. Like, I'm like, are you trying to make the survivors look like fans? Like, I just thought it was silly. It was so funny how often during Jeff describing this report, and we start to hear through hands that it's Zach Brown, they keep panning to D because I think she's the only one who cares at all.

SPEAKER_00 17:46

Colby, I think a little bit, but D, and that is actually it is D that saved it for me in a lot of ways, though, because it is in the hands of the brands, in the hands, in the hands of the Zach Brown band. But and I'm not a country music fan. I mean, I grew up listening to country. It's I have nothing against it, it's just not something I follow. But to see the power of that music for D did help personalize it for me a little bit. Yeah, it clearly does not probably mean much as an individual artist to much of the rest of the castaways, but I really liked D talking about how much like the music meant to her. And even though it is not an artist that like I feel the same way about, it was a nice little reminder of just like how Lucas is so compassionate, dear listener.

SPEAKER_02 18:44

Like it is, he I love that you love that. I love that it's like I was like, I'm happy for her, but I I felt like you could tell the producers telling her to cry. Like, I just felt like I mean maybe it's just because I don't know the this artist, maybe a lot of his music is very deep in, but I'm just like, you know, I would be excited for most people to get there. Like, I don't know who I'd say is like life-changing for me. Like, I don't know if it just felt like overreaction a little bit because she was the only one who had like a connection at this point. When we get to the later points, people are like talking about how it was just like I feel like nice to have music again once they actually win the reward. But for her, I just was like, okay, girl, like Bob.

SPEAKER_00 19:24

I felt like because she was the only one, it felt authentic. It wasn't like they forced all of the castaways because as I like to talk about RuPaul's Drag Race on every episode of our Survivor podcast, and they will announce like this week's guest judge is so-and-so, and all of the queens will clap and scream and freak out every single week. And there are definitely times where they have no clue who this person is, but they're still being told by production, like, be excited. I didn't feel like it was a group. You all have to like, I felt like D was bringing it.

SPEAKER_02 19:59

I did feel like everyone was I was when Zach Brown actually came out and when they were talking about him, I do think they were probably told to look or mean for sure. Told. But like I hear what you're saying though, too. I just was like, Oh, a sweet D. Like, you're just I don't know. Anything can get someone emotional out there, too. But I just I didn't love any of this. And I at this point I was okay with it. It's later on we can get to it after the challenge that was like, enough of the Zach Brown.

SPEAKER_00 20:26

But yeah, go ahead. I just double-checked what I had written, and I wrote, I'm not a big country fan, but I am getting chills at D's excitement. I'm emotional on their behalf, and then I said, Not me tearing up the second time I watched it. Oh my gosh.

SPEAKER_02 20:42

Sorry, I love I'm I'm happy that it touched you.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

The other thing, because you know me, I am very not capitalism's biggest fan. This is a very commercialized season, I feel. I did like that Jeff clarifies, and we'll maybe get into this again with the reward, that the whole thing was Zack's idea, and I do feel like it felt like Zack's idea. Way more than, according to you, Billie Eilish not even tweeting about naming the boomerang idol after her. This feels like something that came, yes, from a country music artist, but from somebody who seemed like a fan of the show.

SPEAKER_02 21:17

I guess I actually like you're kind of changing my mind on that. I was a little bit originally annoyed that they kept mentioning that it was his uh idea, because I was just like, well, maybe the producer should pretty I just was like, I I don't want the season to be Zach Brown's season and Billy Eileage, like either make it maybe I'd feel a little bit better if it was truly a fan, like an average fan.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

100%.

SPEAKER_02 21:40

Right. Well, anyway, we get into the challenge, and you were saying you just like loved this challenge, yeah?

SPEAKER_00 21:45

I loved the opening shot of the challenge. I don't know that I loved the challenge itself. It is so intense. There is so much to it. This one felt the most like. Just a test of brute strength in a way that I don't think the other ones have felt so far. And I would need to go to the gym before trying to go on Survivor. Like I could not walk onto Survivor tomorrow. I mean, current injury system. I like Mike White has abs. They they are not unfit people. I don't know if something is wrong with their boat and the track that they were on, because the second time I watched it, I did kind of wonder if there was like a malfunction. They are like stuck stuck.

SPEAKER_02 22:33

And I don't really get why it has to be like it can be hard, but it doesn't have to be that hard. I just I never really get that in Survivor. Like I believe you that it's heavy. I don't need it to be the heaviest thing in the world when you haven't eaten. Like, I don't want it to be impossible.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

And you have all of these, even the successful tribes, you have Colby being like, that was hard.

SPEAKER_02 22:53

Well, and something I hate specifically about this puzzle is that it really helps for you to be taller because then you can like hold the pieces, you can hold the middle piece. There has been a time where like no one could reach it, and so they lost. And they had a big lead. I don't remember the details, but I remember being furious. And so I was actually surprised they even brought this puzzle back because I just think overall you're right. Like this really helps if you have brute strength and if you are like physically, your physique is in a certain way.

SPEAKER_00 23:26

I wouldn't say that I loved the mechanics of the challenge, and and I don't know if it was just the lack of cue. I felt like Vatu, there was maybe got their boat on the track wrong. It felt like something was mechanically off there. When we do get to the win, first of all, Dee is immediately devastated. Devastated, you know. But Joe and Colby are on the winning team, and as they are celebrating their win, Joe looks so angry as he's like going to hug Colby. I think it's just masculine enthusiasm, maybe, but it did make me laugh.

SPEAKER_02 24:00

I did not notice that. That's funny. Yeah, I definitely noticed that D was sad, and I just felt bad because she did seem to be the only one who's like excited. There's like a lot of folks talking about like Camilla, I know posted something like me when they talk about country music and fishing, and then she's like, When I hear about the food though, and like her face finally gets happy, and I was cracking up. So like Dee was one who would really appreciate this part. But you know, Joe and Kobe both had confessionals, or at least Joe did, where he did seem like really happy about the confessional.

SPEAKER_00 24:31

Hey, we'll get to the we go to the sanctuary, coaches crying, like they I and that's part of it too, as we get there. The reward in and of itself, and maybe I was just one over, maybe I'm just a corporate shill. Um it felt like more of just a celebration of like music. I didn't love that he was like, I'm debuting a new song, like I'm gonna play a new song. I don't need that. Did you catch the label to his his wine too? Or like no, yeah, I didn't.

SPEAKER_02 25:05

Okay, baby.

SPEAKER_00 25:05

Because in my mind, I was like, it there is something so nice and powerful about like shared music and just sitting around and like singing with people. I loved like worship music and stuff in the church, like especially on those smaller, like around a guitar, like around a camp campfire moment. And this felt very much like that, just like that shared human experience of music. And I liked that, and I I think the spearfishing bit was a bit much, but that he was like, I want to come and like cook for you, and I want to come and serve you and entertain you, and so I don't know. I I liked the reward, and I think that even if you weren't a fan of Zach Brown, it just a trip to the sanctuary is such a gift to rest, but then to like have this delicious, fresh caught and cooked tuna, and to like just sit and listen to some music and sing along, I would have loved.

SPEAKER_02 26:02

Yeah, yeah. I I agree, I think it was just so Zach Brown forward, like it was like his segment was 21 minutes long, maybe. It was a good chunk. I thought originally when we got to the challenge so quickly that we were going to have two tribals. You know, like we had to get rid of some people. There's only 26 days, and there's a lot of people on this island still. Um, anyway, so I just thought, you know, maybe that was what happened. And the fact that it was Zach Brown, the part of the episode I was the least excited, it was all him. It was cool to look at the water, like, don't get me wrong, but I was like, well, he's had more confessionals in this episode than Tiffany has had the entire season. Not a good look for a survivor. So I don't need to hear him compare, you know, his experiences to how survivors must feel. Like, the survivors are there, let's just talk to them. So I was a little bit annoyed. I, you know, I did go deep sea fishing in Fiji. I'm a big fan. I didn't get a cut of any episode. So I maybe I'm just upset about that.

SPEAKER_00 26:59

I also felt Genevieve mentions like I when I go spear fishing, I don't catch um fish like that. He's not doing the same type of spear fishing that y'all are. When Jonathan is out there with a literal spear stabbing fish. This is an automatic spear. That is not the same thing. That also took me out of it a little bit. And I'm just sure this is part of Sanctuary Rewards, but it almost feels sadistic the way that basic civilization things like glassware have been withheld from these people. So giving them a bottle of wine and a wine glass feels like the biggest reward in the world. I was like, oh, you poor people. I really cherished my wine glass that night. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 27:54

Yeah, you're right. Like, and then cut to the tribes who lose. I think Dee has a really great and sharp observation where she's like, Yeah, I'm like sad we're missing this, but it's also the time we would have had together. And I agree, I think that that bonding time, like you're saying, being around like uh well, maybe not literally a fire here, but being around a campfire and playing music really brings people together. And so, like, maybe they're gonna think twice before voting each other out, come a merge, or cracks that used to be together, they're gonna be bonded because they have the shared shared experience.

SPEAKER_00 28:29

Yes, I did, I felt really bad for D. And then here we go to Rizzo finding the idol.

SPEAKER_01 28:37

Oh my god.

SPEAKER_00 28:38

And he says again, this is not his first time saying that since day one, I've been climbing up the food chain to prove I'm one of the better players to ever play the game. I've seen four episodes of this TV show, and even I know that in the world of RuPaul's drag race, this is what we call drag delusion. Rizzo. Come on, man. But again, this is maybe when I realized he's played the game, but he has not yet lived the part of the survivor experience where you watch the show air and you go through all of that. So I would, who knows? I'd be really interested to hear from Rizzo. And I didn't see him, he I watched 49 air. So maybe he like stood by it all. Maybe he's standing by it all now.

SPEAKER_02 29:27

But yeah, at this point, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:30

I mean, like, yeah, mod 2026. Like as the show is airing, I'd be really interested to hear what he thinks about his his own gameplay.

SPEAKER_02 29:38

It's so interesting because it's like you could say some like someone out there online could say something about this. And you know, something that I heard on a podcast uh that I thought was really interesting that I kind of want to bring to discussion here was a point that Rizzo has seen everyone on TV. He's a major super fan, like myself. He loves Survivor, and so he thinks he knows how to deal with each one of these folks because he knows on TV. That is not the same as knowing someone in real life. And so I think it's like a disadvantage to not have gone through everything everyone else has, like with the season airing. But then there's also like him going straight to Charlie and being like, hey, so Maria, huh? Like he's talking to them like he's a fan still, and that might be another disadvantage that he's not calculating.

SPEAKER_00 30:27

He's like viewing them as characters or even caricatures of themselves because he's only known them through the edit of the show. Exactly. That's interesting. We we get back to Vatu and kind of post loss, they're having a rough one, and Mike is on the I've gotta save Angelina train. And him defending his best friend is to say she's not a threat to win the game, she's a number.

SPEAKER_02 31:05

Ouch! It's very similar to what Cerie said about Ozzy, where he was she was like, you know, Ozzie, he's not very good at the social part, but he's just like cutting to the chase about Angelina. Whether he believes it or not is a little unclear. Like he, like you said, he he says, I don't know why my why Operation Save Angelina is my task in life, but here we go again.

SPEAKER_00 31:29

Yes, and then he says to somebody else, she's not a great game player, she's not a threat. Like he's just walking around throwing dirt on this girl's name, and I get it's to it's to take the heat off of her, but that does seem to be the consensus of the tribe as well. So I'm like, does he believe that? Is he being a little bit?

SPEAKER_02 31:49

So I think he's just playing it up, you know? And it's interesting, he's also clocking like Emily's game, like she has one. He says Emily is a cougar in the shape of a Renfare girl. I was cracking up, but it's like interesting because she is. I don't know if she's a cougar. I think she's just a little all over the place. That would be the argument I would give, is more that hey, like, can you trust Emily? Because she seems to have a blabber mouth, but I don't know if Mike has seen everything we've seen.

SPEAKER_00 32:20

That's true. I do think even just that line, though, of she's a cougar in the form of a Runfair Girl is so emblematic of his like wit and character observation that feeds into the success of something like the White Lotus. Like, I feel like he just he he does get people. I said from the beginning, don't trust this man. We'll get into my final. I also think he knows that Emily is a threat. He knows that she's smart and he needs a new target, he needs a scapegoat to get the heat off of Angelina. So he sets his sights on Emily by telling Christian this is the same thing that happened with Gabby. I don't they show a couple clips of again her asking if he wants to play with.

SPEAKER_02 33:13

I literally was like, okay, Lucas is proved right by them showing this clip. Like, Christian is like playing the same band. That's a pretty iconic moment in Survivor, um, because those two are kind of a duo until the end. One thing that, like, just as I think is as important to this discussion to know is that Gabby was unsuccessful in voting out Christian. So no matter what Mike says, like, this could be like Gabby, this could be your downfall, like Christian survived that night. He was voted out the next tribal council, and who led that? Mike White, not Gabby. And so if he's trying to bond with this very strategic, calculated person, you have to remember that emotions are always a factor. But he's gonna remember the details probably better than yourself, Mike.

SPEAKER_00 34:02

Well, and I think that I was really impressed by Christian's reaction to the whole thing. Even though she failed at maybe getting him out in that original season, that is clearly still a real wound for him. In the confessionals, he says, I've never cried about this before. It's been seven years, and he is that is that was very sad to see that there these emotions are just so tense intense during your time on the island, and the betrayal feels uh just as intense, and that is clearly still with him to some extent. That Gabby, but it is to your point, I really liked seeing that Mike was very intentionally poking a wound to manipulate Christian, and Christian feels the feelings and then is like, wait, that's what I'm Mike is poking my wound to get me like 100%.

SPEAKER_02 35:02

That's what I was trying to say. Yeah, like Mike White is knows how to manipulate emotions. That is something he is very good at doing. I mean, that's kind of his job, but he is miscalculating on Christian on how strong those emotions will work, right? Like, I think it's like both, and it's very interesting. And so Christian goes, wait a second, we need to get Mike White out. Crazy. He like gains self-awareness in the moment.

SPEAKER_00 35:29

It's like Mike White knows to get you how to how to get you to agree with him just by saying a few words, and he's like, Wait, it is so interesting how he does like I can see it, I think it makes sense for his game.

SPEAKER_02 35:42

It doesn't make sense for a lot of other people's games. So, three, two, one vote, I'm sure you like heard them say that quite a bit at times, is a way to like have a successful vote. But one thing that I think that people forget, and maybe Christian forgot here, because again, that emotional side, how Antoon Izzy, is that you always have to leave somebody completely out, some completely blindsided that one, in this case Ozzie, to make this successful that you're still gonna be with the next day.

SPEAKER_00 36:09

But before Christian sets up the 3-2-1 vote, Mike wants to set up a similar thing where he wants to leave Ozzie out. This was interesting on Rewatch. He wants to gun for Emily, leaving Ozzie out of it. And he says, you know what? I think it would be better to just like ask Ozzie for forgiveness than try to loop him in now. And it's interesting to see how that flips. And in every situation, Ozzie is still the one getting left out, but Mike was willing to take that risk and try and patch up the damages. Christian seems like he's gonna have his work cut out for him because Ozzie is not happy at the end of the episode.

SPEAKER_02 36:43

No, he is not, and Ozzie is famously very vindictive. And so I just think Christian what got a little bit excited to play the game here, but was not thinking strategically. I think the same thing happens for Emily. So Christian goes to Emily, he tells him his tells Emily, hey, you're the target, but don't worry, I have it figured out. I think what's interesting is Emily wants to immediately tell Ozzie, like that is her cry. Yes. But she starts to do it, Christian freaks out and she stops. Ugh, what do you think about this, Lucas? Because I was actually like, Emily, if you're gonna do it, do it. Bring Ozzie in. Why lose your number one on the tribe, Ozzie, because you blindsided him, and go with Christian's plan. We're like, I don't know, I just felt like maybe this wasn't the best choice for Emily.

SPEAKER_00 37:34

I think I have it with a full view of kind of Ozzie's reaction as well. I'm surprised at how upset he was, but maybe that's just because, as you mentioned, he's more vindictive than I realize.

SPEAKER_01 37:47

Like more.

SPEAKER_00 37:48

But initially, the 3-2-1 vote makes sense to me. And I'm like, yes, Ozzy, Emily, Christian has made a plan to try and save you. You have uh already shared every single secret Christian has ever told you this season. Please keep your mouth closed for this one time. But in the prior episode, she's making that alliance with Ozzy. She says, like, I'm not playing Christian's game, I'm playing my game, and and Ozzie is important to my game. And I do think she's backed into a corner though, because her number one defender and the person orchestrating this plan to keep her safe is the one saying it has to be a 3-2-1 vote. If in front of Christian she defies him and Christian's already questioning, can I trust Emily? How many times is she gonna keep like sharing my plans and secrets with everyone? Is she burning that bridge? If he explicitly tells her, here's how I'm saving you, don't tell Ozzie, and then she does it in front of him.

SPEAKER_02 38:48

It's just a very interesting thing to do when they still could have won by doing Angelina, right? So, like, if so if the options truly for Christian are Angelina or Mike White, why go for Mike White? Like, if you get rid of Angelina, I mean Mike White, it is like a big person to get off on your resume, but if you get rid of Angelina, you're making Ozzie happy, you can figure out the Mike White thing later, you're losing someone in your David versus Goliath 3 already, regardless of which one you choose.

SPEAKER_00 39:17

But you're putting a schism between yourself and Mike White, who is one of the like not only you're losing everybody in your David and Goliath tribe, you're kicking off Angelina. And Mike is one of the most dangerous players in the game because he knows people so well. From my perspective, and because he's so good at manipulating people and getting people to do what they want, Christian feels it happening to himself. He's like, this is a threat. Angelina, unfortunately, so far, Mike is right, is not really a threat. She's the safer person to keep around as a number. Again, sorry, Angelina.

SPEAKER_02 39:50

Where I just don't know you're gonna get that number and you lose Ozzy. I don't know if it's worth it to we'll see. Like, we'll see how the game shakes out for Christian. Today, I think, and you know, again, I just know this because of Ozzie. Like, he he does not like being left out, and so I think it's gonna be easy for Ozzy, Stephanie, and Angelina to go against Christian next vote.

SPEAKER_00 40:14

If you're making an enemy between Ozzie and Mike White, if you keep Ozzie around, he's probably still more helpful in the challenges. If you have to make an enemy of the two. Yeah. Like if there's if there's if there's one of them you're gonna eliminate, and one of them you're gonna make an enemy.

SPEAKER_02 40:32

Yeah, but we're not talking Ozzie versus Mike. We're talking Angelina, you know. But I'm talking I'm not talking well because you could the thing is Angelina was the obvious vote. So I don't know how mad Mike would actually be about it. You know what I mean? Yeah, I know he is for weeks. I just I don't think I would have done what Emily did, and I don't think I would have done what Christian did. I don't, I think I would have rather kept tribe strong as it can be by keeping Ozzie and keeping Ozzie in my good graces and not ruin it. Because it depends, it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens with Emily and Ozzie. Like, how betrayed is Ozzie gonna feel by Emily? Because he said he'd only go for Q, last vote, if you get Angelina out. And now he's just seeing himself on a spiral where we're gonna lose every time, and he's seeing himself on the outs, and that is not good. I'm just an Aussie girl.

SPEAKER_00 41:28

I felt a lot like I was watching the Traitors, in that I feel in the Traders dominating the conversation or being too big of a character is a threat to your game where you start just drawing too much attention, you become target. And I feel like here Mike overstepped in bringing up Gabby specifically. Maybe that's what it is, is more so that he's like, No, you you're toying with my trauma to manipulate me, and here's the retrospection. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 42:01

It'll just be really interesting to see what happens to Christian in the fallout of this. He does still have Devons on the other side. He might have Aubrey if she finds out about the idol. I'm not 100% sure what that's gonna happen, but I think losing Ozzy and maybe some of the manipulation he's already done with Joe, who's making connections. I don't know. I'm worried for Christian and I love him. Interesting.

SPEAKER_00 42:23

Mike at Tribal, I feel like puts on a character. Do you agree? I feel like he becomes so like dear in the headlights and timid and meek and humble, and like, oh, I just I feel so weak and confused, and I don't know what's happening when he's such a mastermind, like it's not in front of Jeff. I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 42:43

Interesting. One thing I will say is I've been listening to a lot of Mike White's exit press, and he is a little bit stumbling over his words. I think he was, I don't know if it's just because he's caught off guard, maybe a little embarrassed, but like I feel like he's so much more articulate in his confessionals than he is in these like exit press, right? And I wonder if like the tribal interview thing, like it's just like not his thing. Maybe he is putting on a character. Um, but I just felt, I felt a little bit what you were saying, Lucas. I just also felt a little differently after I was to this exit press, and I was like, oh, I expected you to be a little bit more of a smooth talker than you are.

SPEAKER_00 43:17

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 43:18

Yeah, but that's just me. Huh.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

I guess related to that though, those pre-vote conversations at Tribal all feel like kind of stilted and performative. Right. And I think part of that is because the stakes. I'm curious about how high the stakes are. Like, I maybe there's no way to know. Is anybody changing their mind because of what happens in this pre vote interview with Jeff? Or are everybody walking there with their votes set? Like what and so are there high stakes? And if you say the wrong thing, are you gonna get somebody to vote for you? Or do we already know before we get here? I don't know.

SPEAKER_02 43:57

Yeah, that's a good question. I think that sometimes. People change their mind, or sometimes people just feel like something's fishy. I do not know though, like the per and I don't know how anyone would know, like the percentage of people who like change their mind once they get to tribal, but um it was interesting. I was so curious why Emily was feeling nervous. I was like, it's just an act she's maybe doing for Ozzy, so that if she votes for Mike, he's not as upset with her.

SPEAKER_00 44:23

I think she was genuinely nervous because she knows she's a target and she knows that she like was the last person on the chopping block as far as yeah, if she doesn't know Mike is aware of Mike, yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 44:35

I don't know. Yeah, it's very interesting if you just I would love to talk to a survival player about that. Like going into tribal, do you just have your talking points that you're trying, like you using your little PR trained brain to like have these conversations? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 44:49

And then they vote, and Mike is eliminated. I wasn't really sure where how it was gonna go. I remember like when when Jeff first flips it, I was like, it did feel a little up in the air. And his immediate reaction is you skunks. Amazing. Good job, you guys. That was fun. What did you think of that reaction?

SPEAKER_02 45:14

I you know, no one wants to be a sore loser, but so I think sometimes people just like say the first thing that's on their mind. I do think in Exaprise, like Mike has been kind of sad about it. I think he just he's like, I barely got to do any of the fun stuff. I got to do all the pre-press and all that stuff, and I just got didn't get to stay there that long. Um, I don't know, it was interesting, but Ozzy definitely seemed more upset than Mike White did.

SPEAKER_00 45:37

Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_02 45:38

He's like, blind's in it again. Thanks, guys.

SPEAKER_00 45:42

Which I feel that if it were me, maybe I would be more on Steph's side of things where she was at the beginning of this episode. Where she's like, Thank you guys for keeping me. Like, you had to do what you had to do. I wasn't the target, so thank you. Like, I don't think I he's taking it so personally, and I'm like, Ozzie, this is not about you. We just eliminated Mike. You are still in the game, you could just stay another day. Like, why is this suddenly your problem?

SPEAKER_02 46:12

That's because you'd be a social player. Like, and Ozzie's not. Like, that's just that is exactly the answer to that question. Like, if it were you, like, you would never be such a way. You and Ozzie, I would be, I think nine times out of ten would not be doing the same thing. Um, and and I think he's like, in his mind, he feels like alright to be upset. Like, Emily promised him if he got rid of Q that he could get rid of Angelina. And the only reason, like, he's they're not necessarily throwing the challenge, but the only reason he's willing to get rid of Q is because he doesn't have to keep picking up the slack from Angelina anymore. He's someone who cares about the tribe, he cares about people working hard, providing, and so like in addition to Angelina maybe not being a number for him, she annoys him and he doesn't like that kind of play, and so he's like, Okay, I'll do this one thing, I'll scratch your back if you scratch mine, and now he scratched her back and he lost his number two in the game, from his perception, I'm guessing. Right, but like, yeah, I I so I understand why he's upset. I just think you have to hide it if you're on the bottom. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 47:17

Well, and he he was like gunning, I guess nobody else really knows that he was gunning for Mike White's right-hand man position. So it throws his game in a way that they probably don't realize it did.

SPEAKER_02 47:30

But I did seem like everyone knew though that Ozzie liked Mike White. I wish they showed us more footage of it so it felt a little bit more real to us because I, you know, they're acknowledging it. But I I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 47:41

Christian does say Ozzie is busy gunning for a white lotus cameo. So that he's not gonna vote for Mike. So they they did have some awareness.

SPEAKER_02 47:51

Yeah, yeah. I think it was, I don't know. I felt, I did feel for Ozzie. I just keep looking at this and I'm like, I just it just didn't feel like how I would have done it. And maybe I I also want the white lotus cameo, who knows? I just felt like, oh, I don't know if Mike was the right person to get right now.

SPEAKER_00 48:11

Mike to me feels similarly to Cari, where I'm like, yep, they might make great TV as a character on the show, but they seem dangerous to me, and I think you need to get out of the dangerous people.

SPEAKER_02 48:25

I think so. I just don't think he, like, if you're Emily, he's any more dangerous than Christian in that area.

SPEAKER_00 48:33

Maybe not, but Christian wants to keep you in and Mike wants to get you out. Yeah. Emily doesn't have a choice. She can't be like, Yeah, I'm gonna befriend Mike because he's currently trying to eliminate her.

SPEAKER_02 48:44

Yeah, I guess she had to get rid of Mike because Mike is going for her. I just I was just so interested in keeping Ozzie out, but maybe Ozzie would have tried to flip it on. Yeah, I don't know. I guess they didn't have trust that Ozzie would keep Emily over Angelina, I guess. I don't know. I'm stuck on that one, Lucas. I'm like, I just I feel unsettled by it, but I am curious about your first impressions of Mike White. I guess they this is the only person who it wasn't your like first first impression. You've watched White Lotus, you're a fan. You've I'm sure watched School of Rock, you're a big fan.

SPEAKER_00 49:18

Yes. What's his connection to School of Rock?

SPEAKER_02 49:21

He also wrote and produced School of Rock, and he's Ned Schneebly.

SPEAKER_00 49:26

Wow. I don't know. I don't know who Ned Schneebley is.

SPEAKER_02 49:29

Okay, so you know how Jack Black is impersonating his roommate. Oh. His roommate is Mike White. Oh my gosh. Yeah, so they're like Mr. Schneebley. Yeah. Yeah, that's that's Ned. That's Mike White.

SPEAKER_00 49:44

I did not know that. I do love the White Lotus, and that's why I said my first impressions of him were just I know better than to trust this man. I've seen the White Lotus. I he's got a dark and twisted mind, and that's great for him, and he knows people really well. But I think from the beginning I have seen him as a really big threat, and so you feel good and proud as him. I feel good of yeah, I feel good about them eliminating him, not for his sake, like I'm sure that sucks, but in the same way that I'm like, D, you need to get Siri out. I'm like, Christian, good job for for seeing what Mike was trying to do. You're trying to puppet master and cutting the strings.

SPEAKER_02 50:26

You're so right. And I hope it doesn't bite. I think my concern is just like I don't know how where Christian goes.

SPEAKER_00 50:31

And how Ozzie's gonna react.

SPEAKER_02 50:32

And how Ozzy is going to react. So we'll we'll see. Any, I mean, any predictions for next episode?

SPEAKER_00 50:40

I'm curious. I know you mentioned that they maybe did the tribe swap earlier in the season to try and avoid a disaster tribe, but I feel like because Vatu eliminated you, they've kind of made themselves the disaster tribe. So I'll be curious to see if production tries to do anything to stop that or if Vatu are just going to keep going to tribal.

SPEAKER_02 51:06

Something that would be interesting. So there's like a couple options that I think and I don't know if it's gonna happen next episode. I think they're gonna let them be in the disaster for a little bit because they made a mistake. Um uh in terms of tribal dynamics. Um, but one thing I think that would be interesting is maybe going from three tribes to two. So it'd be another tribe swap, but like I think it would be interesting just to see as many players interact as possible before we get to merge. I'd be interested in that. Um, and maybe we like there's this thing called mergitory that I will save for another day where you kind of merge, but not everyone technically makes the merge. It's a kind of a weird place. So we'll see if that works out. I'd be interested to see. I'm really excited to see where the season goes. I am loving this season, like Zach Brown jokes aside. I I'm having a really good time seeing everyone interact.