Nobody know's Meher

Nobody Knows Joe is the podcast that proves age is just a number.

Hosted by Joseph - a hospitality veteran who’s spent decades in the restaurant and bar scene - this show is equal parts wild stories, unfiltered laughs, and hard-earned wisdom. Joe isn’t your typical 58-year-old. He still goes out. He still parties. And he’s still the life of it.

From behind-the-bar confessions to outrageous life moments, unexpected interviews, and surprisingly sharp advice, Nobody Knows Joe dives into the chaos, comedy, and clarity that only real experience can deliver.

You think you know Joe?
Trust us - you don’t.

Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome to Nobody Knows Joe. Even Joe doesn't know Joe at this moment in time, but I'm getting to know myself soon. I'm with uh guest uh Meyer Steinberg who's uh a musician in Toronto and around the world. I guess he's traveled many, many places, far and near, and has an amazing voice and plays a piano like no one can, eh? What the I know of. Come say hi. How are you? How's it going?

SPEAKER_01 0:28

That is the kindest intro I've had in decades. Wow. I don't even know what to say. Uh my first question is, who are you and what am I doing here?

SPEAKER_00 0:36

You are a friend of mine, and I'm trying to find myself.

SPEAKER_01 0:39

Ah, excellent.

SPEAKER_00 0:40

You know, I went through a bad breakup and uh I'm in therapy, and this is part of a therapy thing for me, and try to know myself, and you know, I've done bad things and I'm trying to do good things now, and this helps me.

SPEAKER_01 0:53

Awesome. Well, I'm uh I'm happy to be here.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

Yeah. So let's start talking. I guess you've never been on a podcast before?

SPEAKER_01 1:02

I don't think I have. Uh no, I believe this is my first podcast. I'm getting my podcast uh cherry-popped and I'm pretty excited.

SPEAKER_00 1:09

You just popped it in my eye, buddy.

SPEAKER_01 1:10

Oh, jeez. Really? From here? From here. That's amazing. Yeah. Um uh cool. Yeah. Do I get points for distance?

SPEAKER_00 1:18

You get points for distance.

SPEAKER_01 1:22

You folks at home couldn't see that, but uh it was exciting.

SPEAKER_00 1:26

Yes. It was very exciting. You know, it was it's very close. Like the Condos do both these days. Very you're very close to each other. Yeah, yeah. So, as a musician in Toronto and worldwide, let's talk about let's start with the music world. All right. And then we'll talk about bagels later. We'll talk about Luxes after, we'll talk about well Kabits.

SPEAKER_01 1:47

Nice, okay.

SPEAKER_00 1:48

Yes. So music, how did you get into music?

SPEAKER_01 1:50

How did I get into music? That is a good question. Um my when I was young, about five, six years old, my parents always loved music. Um, none of them they didn't play professionally, but they loved it and they wanted me to get involved in it. Um, and uh they my father started doing a Suzuki organ course. Okay. Um, which is where you do it with a parent and your your child together and you both learn at the same time. Um so uh we did that for I don't know, maybe six months, a year, something like that. And uh and then eventually them and my grandparents bought me a an upright piano, which I have to this day in my bedroom.

SPEAKER_00 2:34

Nice.

SPEAKER_01 2:35

Um, and got me on piano lessons with a woman named Miss Chang. And uh and that happened in Ottawa, uh and uh did that for a bit. That's that's really when I started.

SPEAKER_00 2:48

So the music is a good thing for you. You didn't come from music like a lot of musicians through the pain and uh heartache and the headaches and the you know the the depression of life. You're more of a upscale person who loved the music.

SPEAKER_01 3:03

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, I always love music.

SPEAKER_00 3:05

You know what I'm talking about, right?

SPEAKER_01 3:07

Yeah, you know, like people who Yeah, I didn't I I didn't have a tortured a tortured kind of upbringing or something like that. You know, it was you know uh you know, reform Jewish living in the suburbs. Yeah. You know, I I I don't have uh complaints. My you know it was it was good, but I would definitely say that uh channeling music and doing that during you know, uh certainly time dark times and times of depression and that sort of thing, um, it is definitely one of those things that helps carry you through. So like, you know, in good times and this is the podcast for me, it's helping me through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. So that's what music does for me.

SPEAKER_00 3:47

Perfect. Besides eighty-eight fingers, do you play anything else?

SPEAKER_01 3:51

Uh I d I do. I got uh I I play guitar. Um my father had taken a course uh with with a woman named uh Lana Vinnick and it was called the Inner Guitar, and he just learned a little bit uh how to play guitar and she also played piano. Uh sent me to the course and I took it, it was like a th sort of a two, three day seminar and just learned how to play basic guitar chords and she was the teacher that sort of made things click for me. Um and she said play whatever you want. And so I went and I got uh the police is every breath you take. Uh I was a fan of that. You know, within you know, a year or two of that coming out, I would say probably, uh got the she music and it had these chords on it that were for guitar as well as the piano notes. And she kind of split up the lesson and we did a half hour guitar, half hour piano, and taught me how to read these chords so that I could interpret them for either instrument.

SPEAKER_00 4:52

So you read music?

SPEAKER_01 4:54

I read music. Um no I'm I'm slow at it. I'm not a good sight reader.

SPEAKER_00 4:58

No. Uh well, the be one of the best one of the best musicians in the world doesn't know how to read music. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. That's gonna be your peas are popping or whatever.

unknown 5:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 5:07

I kind of noticed that myself.

SPEAKER_00 5:09

Your peas are popping? Yeah, it's okay. Let's be raw here. It's okay. Your peas can pop anytime you want. That's what I'm talking about.

SPEAKER_01 5:19

So uh um, but I got particularly good at reading chord symbols, uh, where you'd just you would see something that says E with a little M, which would mean E minor. And you could interpret that in a bunch of different ways, but I'd learn how to play that on guitar, piano, and uh and uh then I started getting serious about music that was around 16. And I've heartbreak? No, no, that was that was yet to come.

SPEAKER_00 5:46

That's yet to come, okay.

SPEAKER_01 5:48

Yes, I didn't pour my soul into the into that until a couple years later.

SPEAKER_00 5:52

But no stairway to heaven for you. Or or what's the lady from uh what's it called? Oh, what's uh Styx, remember Styx? Baby Yeah, baby leaving. I must be on my way. The time has come. Okay. I'm not a singer, nor near a singer. I like to have fun.

SPEAKER_01 6:15

Oh, I enjoyed that though.

SPEAKER_00 6:16

Are you are you acoustic or electric?

SPEAKER_01 6:19

Um more acoustic. I did learn to play electric as well.

SPEAKER_00 6:21

Electric is easier to learn.

SPEAKER_01 6:24

You think so?

SPEAKER_00 6:25

Yeah, because I learned how to play acoustic. Okay, and then I said, you know what, fuck acoustic because it's so hard. Okay. I want to be Neil Young, but I couldn't. Okay. So I I I play I play acoustic for myself.

SPEAKER_01 6:36

I didn't know that. This is very, very interesting.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

I will not play in front of anyone. Okay. I play electric, it's easier. Yeah. Because you can just go crazy and it sounds great because it's loud.

SPEAKER_01 6:46

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

Right. You know, acoustic, you know, when you off of a one note is people will know.

SPEAKER_01 6:52

Yeah, okay. You know? Interesting perspective. I hadn't I hadn't seen it that way, but I you know, I find they both have their challenges. Let's put it that way. Yeah, oh, everything has a challenge. You know, I find because I used to um because I would play, you have to press harder on the acoustic guitar, I would find my tendency would be to overpress on the electric and uh and make it go a little bit more out of tune than I'd like to.

SPEAKER_00 7:16

I tried bass. Bass was too hard for me. Oh, really? Yeah, do you play bass?

SPEAKER_01 7:20

I I got one on the wall, but that's that'd be my least the least of my instruments. Uh a getty lee? Not a getty lee, definitely not. Um but I did play drums, learn to play drums in high school. Oh yeah? Yeah. Um I wanted to join the school band when I was 16, so I um but I couldn't I hadn't been doing it.

SPEAKER_00 7:39

Well, what girl were you following?

SPEAKER_01 7:42

What girl wasn't I following? Uh but uh so I just asked the teacher if uh if I took some drum lessons and learned to play, would you let me into school band next year? And he said, sure. So I took drum lessons for nine months without having a drum kit. I just practiced on my bed with a little round rubber pad, you know. Yeah. Uh and then I joined the school band and played drums. Nice and percussions. What school was it? Thornhill secondary.

SPEAKER_00 8:08

He went to Thornhill. I went to Nunebrook.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

Right. There you go. We were nearby.

SPEAKER_00 8:11

No, no, I went to Thornhill. No, he went to yeah, Thornhill or Thorn Lee. He went by there.

SPEAKER_01 8:16

I yeah, I think he probably went to Thorn Lee. He probably went to Thorn Lee, yeah. He didn't go to my school.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

But uh, but you're older than he is.

SPEAKER_01 8:24

Um we're we're within a year, I think. Yeah. But his but his parents both taught me at Thorn Lee. Okay. They taught me religious school. Yes. There. Um at different points. So yeah. So uh but I didn't know that no one.

SPEAKER_00 8:39

So when you're a rock door, did you wear the yarmaka too sometimes? On a Friday?

SPEAKER_01 8:43

Uh uh I I rarely wear that when I'm not. Uh yeah, that's uh no. No. No, when you when you grow up with a father as a rabbi, you sort of uh become uh you you develop a slight aversion to you know synagogue sometimes a l a little bit. It's like okay, it's like you never want to be a cantor? No. No? No, but I love the one that we had when uh at my synagogue. Oh yeah. I was a big fan. Uh I did I was the showfire blower for quite a while though.

SPEAKER_00 9:17

Oh yeah?

SPEAKER_01 9:17

Yeah. I was I was the showfire blower until my lips changed.

SPEAKER_00 9:21

Until your lips changed.

SPEAKER_01 9:22

Yeah, there was a crisis of faith one day I went and I tried to I tried to blow and I'm warming up downstairs and it's just it's it's not happening. Oh no. And like I I think it was around 13, 14, or like something things were changing.

SPEAKER_00 9:34

You kissed a non-Jewish girl. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

unknown 9:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 9:38

I got a chicks attack, and then the next thing you know, I can't blow shofar anymore. You can't do it anymore. So I squeaked it out for one last year, and that was the end of it. I retired. Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 9:46

So any what's the biggest gig you played?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

The biggest gig I played? Um.

SPEAKER_00 9:58

In terms of Besides Gene Darling.

SPEAKER_01 10:00

In terms of global popularity or sheer numbers? Any either either or whatever. Well, let's let's start with numbers. I was uh I was with uh an original act that I played with for quite a long time called White Cowbell, Oklahoma. Okay. Southern Rock band, sort of like the love child of Z Top meets Deep Purple in the Almond Brothers living room, something like that.

SPEAKER_00 10:22

Okay, so Southern Rock. Southern Rock. Southern Rock.

SPEAKER_01 10:25

Um, and we were playing in Harlem, Holland. We had a big following in the Netherlands, and there's some footage, some really bad self cell phone footage online of this event. Okay. From our stage. And it was eighty to a hundred thousand people. Holy outside outside, and it was a a big outdoor park. Oh, wow. In Harlem, Harlem Holland, yeah, yeah. So that was Was there a festival? It was a f it was a festival. Oh nice. It was that was insane. Um and we did some pretty cool, like we were on Bill with Iron Maiden over there as well on a different part of uh Holland.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Iron Maiden.

SPEAKER_01 11:04

Yep.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

But did you stay and listen to them after? Oh yeah. They're great.

SPEAKER_01 11:08

Oh, they're amazing. Oh my god, they're they're phenomenal. Uh, but we had to get out of the field fast. They were all, you know, hulking huge Dutch, right? And you know, some of them quite wasted, right? And if you didn't get out of their way, they'd just trample you.

SPEAKER_00 11:21

So um I don't have that problem, 6'5.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Yeah, exactly. You'd fit right in. Um the saddle dome in in Calgary was uh that was a good gig. Nice. That was fun.

SPEAKER_00 11:36

Um and that was How is it? Like I've never been like in front of ten thousand, twenty thousand people and the lights on. How how what's the feeling? Is it a rush?

SPEAKER_01 11:47

Oh yeah, it's a it's an absolute rush. I mean you're getting I mean that's that's a big part of I think why why we why you know myself and other musicians do what we do is you're just you're getting a phenomenal amount of energy from these people. You're just they're just sending it your way and you're just you know giving it out there and you're trying to and receiving it as well.

SPEAKER_00 12:06

So a new word I learnt this year through therapy is called dopamine hit. Yep. So is that what you're getting? A lot of dopamine hits?

SPEAKER_01 12:13

That would be a way of putting it.

SPEAKER_00 12:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:15

Sure.

SPEAKER_00 12:15

And you just want more and more sure, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:18

I mean it can be the it can certainly be addictive. Yeah. That kind of thing. Yeah, I mean you're getting you're just you're getting waves of energy from people. That's like it is, it's it's beyond I would say beyond it. Do you get nervous? Uh no. Now, something happened once at at that saddle dome gig. It was the very the very beginning, and I definitely shit myself for about 30 seconds. Um, and what happened was there was uh some issues with the keyboard that day. I had to take it into Long McQuay and get it fixed. Uh took it back, we started the show, and that show I was playing electric guitar and keyboards at the same time uh in the first song. So when the chorus hit, I would hit the guitar. Um, the keyboard, anyway, we start off um with the verses of the keyboard, and something sounds really, really wrong. I'm just like, what is going on? What is happening? And I realized the set that we played, everyone we all tuned down to E flat, a semi-tone lower, which many bands often do. Uh it's easier for the voice and that sort of thing. Um and they'd done a factory reset when they fixed my keyboard, and so it was at regular pitch. Oh and so for the first you know, for about 20 seconds or so, it was just like and we're all wearing in-ear monitors too. It was just like absolutely like the worst. Like I was nervous for about and then I'm when as soon as I figured out what it was, I switched the thing, detuned the pitch a semitone, came in at the chorus, and we were good. So, you know, it it all happened within about 20 seconds or so, but it was uh yeah. I got nervous about that. But in general, I would at this point I don't get nervous.

SPEAKER_00 13:54

Not at this point, at the beginning. Second, third, fourth gig. Oh, of course. And for a hundred thousand people like the first time, like uh No, I w I wasn't nervous in front of that.

SPEAKER_01 14:04

At that point I'd already played enough enough gigs. Uh you know, uh when you've to put it frankly, it when you've d done great and fucked up enough times in front of enough people, eventually you just like you just don't get nervous anymore. You just like you've you've seen the worst that can happen.

SPEAKER_00 14:24

I'm not there yet. I'm this is what, seventh episode only? I'm still a little nervous. Yeah. I don't have the greatest voice. How do you know when you have a voice? Like, how do you know that you can sing?

SPEAKER_01 14:34

Oh man.

SPEAKER_00 14:35

Like, did you know when you're ten years old that oh my god I can sing, or you know, and then you vo you know, as a little boys are voice crackles, and then at the end, you know, at seventeen you're to sound totally different than when you're ten, and you know, when your junk drops and then you know become a man. You know, it's like it's different. Like that's the guys, you know, like once he's uh, you know, low voice and now he's a high voice or a low high voice and then a low voice. Right. Well, how do you know all these things when you're performing that it's just not going to F you up? Hmm. Interesting. Did I stump you?

SPEAKER_01 15:20

No, no, uh sorry, can can you just like can you just rephrase that slightly?

SPEAKER_00 15:27

You have a you I hear you sing all the time.

SPEAKER_01 15:30

Oh hello Be dazzled by my eyes. Hello.

SPEAKER_00 15:35

I hear you sing a lot, right? And you sound amazing.

SPEAKER_01 15:39

Oh, thank you. That's really kind.

SPEAKER_00 15:41

No, it's uh you're a very good singer, and you could do a lot, you can go to different songs and you do a lot of covers at Gene Darlene, so I know what you can do. And just you have all these people come up and sing because it's karaoke. Right. And a lot of them are bad.

SPEAKER_01 15:58

True that, it happens for me, I'm bad.

SPEAKER_00 16:02

But I like doing it. Yeah. And that's where it it comes in, is like I'm not a great singer, but I'll sing because you know what? Life is short.

SPEAKER_01 16:09

That's it. It's about the love of doing it. That's really, you know, just like this, right?

SPEAKER_00 16:13

I'm not the greatest, but it's I love doing it because it helped me unwind.

SPEAKER_01 16:17

It makes you feel good.

SPEAKER_00 16:18

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 16:19

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 16:20

But when do you know, like when you go try it for a band, like are they like oh, you you could be you know, you know, perfect example. And then there was three. Do you remember that?

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Yep, I've got that album.

SPEAKER_00 16:34

Okay. Phil Collins took over. Yep. And it sounded exactly like Peter Gabriel.

SPEAKER_01 16:41

Pretty similar, yeah. Very similar. Very, very similar, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:44

That you wouldn't even know. Right? Yeah. So what the band goes and tells him because he's a drummer, he's behind the kit. He really what 90% of drummers don't sing, you know, ten percent sing, and the rest of them don't. Yeah, probably. Yeah. So yeah, how do you how do people know this?

SPEAKER_01 17:04

Uh well, I I mean I can tell you what happened in the case of Genesis. Um they Phil was uh they kept auditioning singers after Peter Gabriel left, and Phil had to be the one that kept teaching them the songs. He wasn't trying he didn't he wasn't actually interested in becoming the singer, but he had always sang backup. Yeah. Um but uh eventually they uh he just kept teaching it and nobody could do it better than he was doing it. So he just he ended up becoming the singer by sort of by default, but it wasn't really the intention. Right. Um but with in terms of other people and when you go out like you, like we ever have you ever been a lead singer? Uh m mainly for my own stuff. I write my own music.

SPEAKER_00 17:52

Yeah. Um I mean in band situations.

SPEAKER_01 17:58

Uh yes, in in in shared, like a shared lead thing. Where um I'm singing lead for uh for uh half the set. I mean I've definitely done it more so over the last several years, but uh but I would play in bands. So I'd do uh I did a retro 80s band for years with you remember you met my friend Ian, his brother Dylan, and uh we would dress up like jackasses wearing a cone head and a cape and spandex and do all that stuff, and we'd all take turns singing different songs, right? Different 80s songs and uh stuff. But yeah, no, I've I I've done it in more in that capacity, but not not so much like I'm out doing three sets and I'm I'm just fronting it as a lead singer unless unless I booked the gig. Right. If I hired the band then then I'm doing I'm doing it like that for sure. But uh but I no I came to it more later later on. Piano uh I'd been doing since I was six uh and then I picked up the other instruments, but singing happened a bit uh a bit later on in life. Okay. So I feel like I'm still working hard to play catch up to my piano. Well in that way.

SPEAKER_00 19:08

Do you play classical piano too?

SPEAKER_01 19:09

I used to.

SPEAKER_00 19:10

Yeah? I I used to, yeah. The dot calm you down opposed to the rock and roll piano?

SPEAKER_01 19:14

Oh um, no, it would probably uh do the opposite of that. Because I I well just because I do it so seldom now, it actually would be a lot of work. Oh but no, but I loved it for sure. I mean I did the uh the grades through the conservatory and that sort of thing. Uh and around that time when I was sixteen, I was telling you I found that piano teacher that sort of help let me play whatever I wanted to. Uh I re after that, and we did that for quite a while, I went back th and found somebody to work with me uh doing classical stuff.

SPEAKER_00 19:45

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 19:46

So I went back through the conservatory into grade three, then I skipped grade five, grade seven, grade eight, and then the last level was around the grade nine level, which is one before you go for your ARCT, which is like the final the sort of final thing. So nice. Yeah, so I spent I spent a bunch of time doing that. I'm thinking about getting back in a few classical pieces though, and just trying to remember how to play them again. That's it. I do enjoy it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 20:10

Yeah. And you played the keyboards too, right? Yep. Syn synthesizers, organs and organs. Yeah. So what genre do you do like remember in the m early eight mid eighties or early eighties was all synthesizers and all that? Are you into that?

SPEAKER_01 20:26

Oh, like very much so. That was a big, a big part of what brought me into like yes? Well, I liked yes for sure.

SPEAKER_00 20:33

I know.

SPEAKER_01 20:33

Uh I did, you know, Howard Jones was a really big guy for me. Um Herbie Hancock? Uh uh sure. Uh yeah, her Herbie Hancock, but more later on, not the synthesizer aspect of Herbie.

SPEAKER_00 20:45

Oh no?

SPEAKER_01 20:46

Uh Herbie was a big influence as a piano player.

SPEAKER_00 20:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 20:50

Like I like I the synth brought me in. Like when Rocket came out, I was at that age where I'm like, oh, this is pretty cool. Right. But I then over time I kind of realized, oh, this Herbie is a genius. Genius musician, both classical and jazz, absolute genius. Nice. Um so and if you asked if you asked n you know ten piano players who their biggest piano influences are, I would say probably eight out of ten would say Herbie Hancock would be really quite near the top of the list.

SPEAKER_00 21:24

Who others be?

SPEAKER_01 21:25

Uh for myself, Oscar Peterson. Okay. Uh my dad bought me a a Canadiana suite, uh jazz record uh when I was sixteen, and that really was my gateway jazz thing. Um and I just love his playing. You know, technically he's he's one of the most proficient there's ever been. And considered in probably the top two or three. Uh and just a perfect time, just great if you want to learn and listen, uh you can hear what he's doing very clearly, he executes it perfectly and uh yeah, phenomenal. Uh and Keith Jarrett would be another one. No, I don't know who that is. Keith Keith Jarrett uh he moans a lot when he plays, which is pretty funny. Okay. Uh he's a really, really brilliant improviser. Again, also comes back from a classical background and jazz as well. Both him and Herbie Hancock were had played for Miles Davis. Miles Davis was always sort of the one that found these amazing players and and then they became much more known over time.

SPEAKER_00 22:25

So what about known players like uh Ray Charles?

SPEAKER_01 22:28

Love Ray Charles. Yeah. Ray Charles uh yeah, uh as a piano player and a singer, as just you know, I once asked uh I once asked Ian, I'm like when I was learning uh to sing more, right? Getting more into that. I'm like, who should I study? Who do you think I should learn? And he's uh well start with Ray Charles and then uh yeah, no, Ray Charles, that's it. Yeah, that's about all you need to know.

SPEAKER_00 22:53

Okay, you didn't do heroin like he did, did you?

SPEAKER_01 22:58

Fortunately, I can't stand needles. Oh, me neither. Yeah, so no uh no fear of that. Okay, no fear of that. But I absolutely love Ray Charles.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Yeah? Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you a question, because you always tell me one thing, but I want to know deep down. A gender league piano man, why not piano man?

SPEAKER_01 23:18

Why not piano man? It's a fair question. When when you've played as many bars as I have in as many different places over as many years, and you've heard that question asked as many times as I have, you don't want to do it anymore. You're just not interested. Um, and also it's not just that, I think it's a horrible, horrible song. It's just absolute misery. Like you he you he you listen to to me, I I hear the song, and it's like loneliness. It's yeah, but it's like it sounds like it's a like a piano player hating his life and what he's doing. Like that's that's really the vibe I get from it. And and so, and I just yeah, it's just Do you like Billy Joel? It's I do. I have nothing nothing against Billy Joel. The very first single actually I ever went to buy, the 45, was uh still rock and roll to me by Billy Joel, except they were sold out. So I ended up getting uh Call Me by Blondie, which in retrospect is way cooler.

SPEAKER_00 24:23

Yeah, it's Blondie is way cooler, way cooler, way hotter too.

SPEAKER_01 24:26

Way hotter, exactly.

SPEAKER_00 24:27

But uh in video drum. The only reason I watched video drum was to see Deborah Harris.

SPEAKER_01 24:31

There you go. Um, but no, uh so when people asked me to play uh Billy Joel, up until recently I was just doing I would do Allentown.

SPEAKER_00 24:39

Allentown.

SPEAKER_01 24:40

You know, you don't see it coming, right? But it's a great one, although the video is uh is a lot wackier than you might remember.

SPEAKER_00 24:46

I heard you guys play uh Vienna.

SPEAKER_01 24:48

We did, and I finally learned it when when I first started at Gene Darlene, I kept getting this request for Vienna, and I'm like, what is this Vienna song? What is this? And and it had been on my whiteboard at home. I have a whiteboard of songs that I gotta learn. Right. You know, especially in the early days, right, of of Gene Darlene. Like I couldn't leave the house without running over the last 30 songs that people asked for. Um, but uh but I finally got around to like learning the words. I knew how to play it for a while, but just memorizing the lyrics and learning how to sing it properly. Uh and it's a brilliant song. I think it's just such a such an amazing song. I don't know where it was hiding my whole life or why I didn't know about it.

SPEAKER_00 25:28

But uh I think I think his best song would be either Honesty.

SPEAKER_01 25:33

It's a great song.

SPEAKER_00 25:34

Or A Stranger. You know The Stranger?

SPEAKER_01 25:37

Um Oh was that later on?

SPEAKER_00 25:41

That was uh the album's A Stranger. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 25:44

I'm not sure.

SPEAKER_00 25:45

I think that was 1980, early 80s.

SPEAKER_01 25:49

I know I know if I'm sure I'd know to hear it. Like yeah. I just can't I can't remember how it goes right now. But uh but yeah, no, those are all those are all great. I mean I loved uh the one they used the theme to bosom buddies as well. I don't care what you say anymore. That's a great one.

SPEAKER_00 26:05

Yeah, my life. My life, yeah. Were you ever a Beatles or a Rolling Stones kind of guy?

SPEAKER_01 26:11

Uh m more Beatles than Stones, but I love both. Yeah. Uh Beatles was actually my first memory of music, really. Oh yeah? Yeah, my mom had Abbey Road. Okay. So that's vinyl, cassette, or B-track. Vinyl. Probably an original pressing too. Uh find it, it's worth something. Oh, I ha I I I think I have it. Okay. Yeah, yeah. Um, absolutely. Uh so I've I mean I learned to play that whole album top to bottom at some point. Now I can only remember about half of it, but I love love the Beatles very much.

SPEAKER_00 26:44

I think the Beatles were probably the best band ever created. Yeah. Uh you know, uh people say the Stones because the longevity over the Beatles, but Well, I mean that was that's chance in so many ways.

SPEAKER_01 26:58

But uh I think they're both great. They're they're they're very different. I mean, I think in terms of overall just a uh an insane body of work and songwriting, I mean I've the Beatles are pretty hard to beat for that, but uh but it's again, it's that's whatever. You can't no, no, you can't compete. No, it's some of that. People have their own opinion. And and I love them both, so what whatever.

SPEAKER_00 27:23

Um Did you ever get into the disco? Did you ever do what's it called? Casey in the Sunshine band. Did you ever try and mimic them?

SPEAKER_01 27:30

We we were doing some of that in the early Gene Darlene days. We remember you we used to do that's the way uh-huh. We we were doing that. No, I wasn't I wasn't so big into them, but I didn't mind disco, to be honest. I was okay with it. Um, you know, I I even like disco kiss. Like I uh I l I love the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack. Yeah, I had that on vinyl.

SPEAKER_00 27:51

Well, are the bee gees really disco?

SPEAKER_01 27:54

The the Saturday Night Fever soundtrack is absolutely disco. You think it is? Oh, it's absolutely I know it is. It's it's absolutely disco. It's dance music.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 28:07

Well how how is there even a question?

SPEAKER_00 28:10

Because disco was more hip-hop of R and B. Like it's uh R and uh disco was more R and B hip hop. That's how I think it started. Well there's like Casey and Sunshine by you, you know, like the B C D rollers, right? Were they disco? They were S A T U R D A Y Night.

SPEAKER_01 28:34

Remember? I think they were kind of disco punk rock, uh bit of all three, weren't they? Yeah, I you see it's so harsh. It it it is. Now there's certain musical uh tells that will help inform you if something is disco. Oh, is it? For example, the drums, right? Um the hi-hat on the drums. Uh so in disco if if something's disco, if you want to know if it's disco or not, and this is You know more than I do. This is again, this is not always the case, but it's a general, a general thing. You will hear the hi-hat doing something like this t t. It'll be doing these an open hi-hat on these offbeats. Okay. Um, and another thing that will be like a signature sort of hallmark of disco would be uh doing octave bass line type of things like you know, it's got it's got that kind of a moving sort of thing.

SPEAKER_00 29:27

Those two just sound reminded me of Shannon now.

SPEAKER_01 29:31

Yeah, I used to watch Shana. I got I got Shannon on vinyl too.

SPEAKER_00 29:40

So that's what it reminds me of. So that's what I'm saying, you know. It's like that's I that's how I you know, again, I love music. Yeah, I listen to all kinds.

SPEAKER_01 29:48

Yeah, I know. You have uh you you know more songs in your head than I can possibly imagine.

SPEAKER_00 29:54

Yeah, it's all the abuse I took. I had to listen to music to get the abuse out of me.

SPEAKER_01 29:58

Yeah, he's a savant in ways that people don't understand, but I've seen it. That's why nobody knows Joe. He knows every lyric there is to everything, it's insane. Yeah, it's it's yeah, it's crazy. But I wish I had that memory for lyrics. No.

SPEAKER_00 30:09

But you know what? On TikTok now, you know what people are using? Remember Divo? Yeah, of course. Whip it. Whip it good. Yeah, I'm like I understand it. Like they weren't cool, but then they were cool. You know, like if you're listening to them in the 80s, it's like, why are you listening to that crap? Sure. And then it's like, oh, it's good music. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it's just weird. Did you get very did you get into punk?

SPEAKER_01 30:32

I wasn't huge into punk, but I did um my place is a recording studio and I recorded some pretty cool chick punk. Oh yeah. Uh I was more into actually producing it than uh spending a lot of time listening to it. Did you wear an eyeliner? Uh in high school briefly. Yeah. Briefly when I was going through my cure phase.

SPEAKER_00 30:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

But I I never committed, so I would wear eyeliner, but at the same time play uh quarterback with the football team at lunch. Okay. You know, and then they started calling me Captain Eyeliner for a very brief period of time. True story.

SPEAKER_00 31:05

Yeah. Yeah. Now, genres in Canadian music, British, American. What what do you like?

SPEAKER_01 31:14

I liked British the most as a teenager. Okay. Definitely, definitely grew up loving the British stuff. I was a big fan of New Wave 80s and I loved bands like Durand Duran and Cheers for Fears. But uh uh I loved more solo pop things like like Holland Oaks, which were American.

SPEAKER_00 31:32

I remember Duran Duran, which I love now, but when they first came out, I thought it was gay music. I'm like, what the hell is this going on? And now I'm like, oh my god, I was an idiot. I was a pure idiot because you know how old was I? I think I was like fifteen.

SPEAKER_01 31:47

Well, you were at that age where it wasn't cool, right? And you were like It wasn't cool. You were like a few years older, so you were more into hard rock and stuff that was like Yes, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 31:55

But I did you know who I did love? In uh as a closet? I loved uh Boy George. Yeah. Right? But I wouldn't tell anyone because again, people think, oh, you're gay and all this. It's like, no, I just uh he's very talented. You know, coming up and dressing how he dressed and all that. Absolutely. It was great. Yep. You know? And yeah, do you really want to hurt me? I always say to myself, why do people want to hurt me? Do you really want to hurt me?

SPEAKER_01 32:24

Really? It's a great song.

SPEAKER_00 32:26

You know? Brilliant song. Oh, yeah, he had a lot of great songs. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:29

I was a big fan of Time, Clock of the Heart on that record.

SPEAKER_00 32:32

Oh yeah. That's cool. Do you remember that one? I remember that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:36

I bust that one out every once in a while.

SPEAKER_00 32:37

Do you? Yeah. Oh, you gotta do it next time uh I'm there. Sure. Yeah. What about Cindy Lauper? Yeah. I think she's a socker.

SPEAKER_01 32:44

I think she's awesome.

SPEAKER_00 32:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 32:46

Oh. Amazing.

SPEAKER_00 32:47

And then and then you know what you remember uh because we're older. You had that, and then you had Olivia Newton John doing Let's Get Physical. Yeah. You remember that?

SPEAKER_01 32:55

Oh man, my sister had that album. My sister was the biggest Olivia Newton John fan ever. We went we went and saw Xanadu several times in the theater. Oh yeah? Do you know do you remember Xanadu? I remember Xanadu. Uh you know, for those of you crazy folks at home. Just picture this, Gene Kelly on roller skates. That's all I gotta say.

SPEAKER_00 33:14

Oh we could go back to the classics where Gene Kelly is a great dancer. Oh, of course. Of course. I know. Yeah, he's pretty.

SPEAKER_01 33:20

Did you listen to Sinatra and Rat Pack and Yeah, I used to I had the uh Capital Years collection of Sinatra three CDs. I listened to that thing back and forth. Oh yeah. Oh love, love Sinatra.

SPEAKER_00 33:34

Did you love the king, Elvis?

SPEAKER_01 33:37

You know, I I have nothing against Elvis. Right. Nothing but like I I like and respect Elvis, but l I wouldn't say that I loved it. I was sort of I went more for David Bowie, who was trying to be the British Elvis. Okay. By his own admission. He he said that. Uh so I was I was kind of more coming from that thing, but I mean obviously Elvis is amazing, but uh, but it wasn't a thing for me so much. No. Okay. Not directly.

SPEAKER_00 34:07

No? What about uh let's see, we got the old what about someone like Sput Sput Sputnik? Heavy, heavy, heavy punk rock. Z Zig Zig Sputnik? Zitnik Sputnik.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

Uh yeah, I rem Like heavy, heavy, like uh I remember dancing to Zigzig Sputnik at uh at some clubs. You know, staying up all night and going crazy. Yeah, uh I've done it.

SPEAKER_00 34:32

You've done it?

SPEAKER_01 34:33

I've I've done it. I didn't put it on myself at home. No. You wouldn't I wouldn't be dancing around the house on my own to Zigzig Sputnik. But uh but when it came on and I was you know, it was like three or four in the morning, wherever the hell I was in downtown Toronto. Sure, I'd go for it.

SPEAKER_00 34:50

Did you get into heavy, heavy metal like Black Sabbath?

SPEAKER_01 34:53

More more later on.

SPEAKER_00 34:55

More later on.

SPEAKER_01 34:55

Yeah, like like at the time the new wave and that that British stuff was happening, that's it was just sort of hit me, like that's where I was at as a teenager. And I had a friend, uh his name was Nikki when I was around 12 years old, and he kept trying to ram the cool stuff down my throat. Nazareth and Kiss. He had every Nazareth album on vinyl there was, and he'd make me sit there and he'd play it for me all the time, and he'd make fun of me for like in Duran Duran and all that other stuff, you know. And you would have too had we been hanging out at that time. Yes. And I would have understood, but in the later years after I wasn't having all this stuff rammed down my throat and was able to just kind of discover it on my own. Right. I really, really love it. Absolutely. I I do. I love uh you know, I I love Iron Maiden and and Sabbath. I'm I love Van Halen. Huge Van Halen fan. Are you big Van Halen fan David Lee Roth? Only only David Lee Roth. Only there is no other Van Halen. There's no other Van Halen. You can quote me on that, folks.

SPEAKER_00 35:55

There's no other Van Halen than David Lee.

SPEAKER_01 35:58

There is, although I I think Sammy Hagar's tequila is fantastic.

SPEAKER_00 36:02

Yes. Okay, performing, have you gone to shows? Like, have you gone to concerts in your life? Like I've been to over a thousand concerts in my life. You know, I just love music. And you know, I've t I I've said it before on the podcast, I've taken my daughter to like a hundred concerts already. Wow. Yeah, the best story we have with me and my daughter is in uh I went to see you two, I went to see Joshua Tree in 87. I was there. Okay. At the CNE, right? At the CNE. Yep, I was there. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 36:31

And he and uh Bono had his arm in a sling. Had his arm in the sling.

SPEAKER_00 36:35

Yeah. Yeah, because he got drunk and fucked himself up, but Oh, that's the story. Whatever.

SPEAKER_01 36:40

I was wondering about that.

SPEAKER_00 36:42

Well, whatever. For thirty years. So then and again, I was uh I was twenty. And then in in two thousand and seven they did the Joshua Tree reunion and I took my daughter when she was twenty.

SPEAKER_01 36:58

Oh, cool.

SPEAKER_00 36:59

So that's great thirty years later, yeah and I was like, wow. You know, it's like I saw them when I was twenty, and now you sing them. It's like the no no one can ever take that away from her or me.

SPEAKER_01 37:10

Yeah. That's brilliant.

SPEAKER_00 37:11

And that's what music is about. No one can ever take away your experience. That's why I love concerts. No one can ever take it away from you. Yeah. You know? You can go see a show twice, uh day after day, and it'll always be different. Yeah. That's the greatest thing about music. Sports is like that too. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 37:26

Very much so. Sports is always different.

SPEAKER_00 37:28

Always different. But music is always different too. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. And that's why I love music, and that's why you're on, because I love you and you're a great player. You know? So I love you too, buddy. You love me too. Thank you. That's one person in the world. Yeah. You know? There's a lot of people who don't, but there's one that does it, which is great. Well, fuck enough, they can't take a joke. That's true. So the real question is.

SPEAKER_01 37:53

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 37:54

Seriously question. Hit me. Best bagel in Toronto.

SPEAKER_01 37:59

There's only one.

SPEAKER_00 38:01

Who's that?

SPEAKER_01 38:02

It's uh it is the Montreal Bagel House bagel.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 38:05

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 38:06

Better than the Kettleman's, better than the Kivas, Grifes.

SPEAKER_01 38:10

I to be honest, I don't know if I've had all of those. Hermro's.

SPEAKER_00 38:15

You must have a key you must have a Kiva bagel.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

We're we're talking Montreal style though, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

Any bagel. New York style, Montreal style, Canadian, any kind.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

The best I've the best that I've had is from the Montreal bagel house. It is the closest thing to uh Fairmont or St. Vietur bagel. Okay. Uh, which is the standard of bagels in the world. So at least in Canada.

SPEAKER_00 38:39

So when you traveled on gigs and all that, did you ever like say, you know, on my rider I need a bagel?

SPEAKER_01 38:46

We used to have Belgian hummus on our on our rider for White Calbell. Uh and we never got it. It turns out there is no such thing as Belgian hummus.

SPEAKER_00 38:54

So for people out there, yeah. They don't know what a rider is. Yes. You know, a rider is a request from the band of what they want in the dressing room before and after the gig.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

Exactly. You commonly get a deli plate, maybe a fruit tray, sometimes some socks or fresh underwear, depending on the tour, if you were lucky.

SPEAKER_00 39:13

But they always had the beer. They always came through with the beer. There was of course, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 39:17

Beer was a a standard.

SPEAKER_00 39:18

They always came with the two four. Yeah, beer, water, you know, the that kind of stuff for sure. Yeah, but the food was always hard. The food was hard.

SPEAKER_01 39:25

Yeah, I would be whenever I would go on tour, I would be the guy that would find the best place to eat whatever the thing is in in any town. Okay. Like if if you were in a sh, you know, shithole in somewhere northern Saskatchewan, it's like I would generally find like, okay, this is the place we all want to go to.

SPEAKER_00 39:43

So in northern Saskatchewan, do they have bagels there?

SPEAKER_01 39:45

Yeah. Yeah, there's there's a few out there. There's uh my fan, you know, lots of Jews come from Saskatchewan.

SPEAKER_00 39:51

Okay. So there's a there's a bagel place there?

SPEAKER_01 39:54

I I would imagine there is. It's been a long time. It's been it's been a while. That's where my where my dad was born.

SPEAKER_00 39:59

What about New York? Have you ever played New York, anywhere in New York?

SPEAKER_01 40:02

I did. I played um I've played a few times in New York. Uh you want you want my New York playing stories? They're actually pretty good. Let's let's hear a couple. Uh the m I was playing with uh with a band called Joy Drop. Okay. And we were opening for Keanu Reeves in New York City with for his band Dogstar. Okay. Uh so I I got to the gig and uh they you know they took our gear and unloaded and brought it upstairs. And that was one of the early times that that actually even happened, that I didn't have to carry my own stuff, which was kind of nice. Um, and uh, you know, I was told by a few people, whatever you do, don't call him canoe. So I'm like, okay, that's cool. I won't. Um and uh and met him and he was the nicest guy, super nice. Fellow Canadian. Fellow Canadian, super nice. And uh we you know, we did our show, I hung out, watched them do their thing, and uh so that was it? That was cool. Oh man, I think was it the Supper Club? I'm trying to remember I I'm I'm trying to not mix up the two locations for the different stories. That's cool. One of these locations was the Supper Club. I can't remember which one it was. I'll it'll hit me later, probably after this is done taping. Um and then the other time was uh I was on tour with a guy named Will uh on EMI at an uh W I L Acoustic uh original artist. Uh and we went to play a Canada Day show. It was called at Joe's Pub.

SPEAKER_00 41:33

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:34

So yes.

SPEAKER_00 41:35

I don't own it, but it's okay. You will. One day. Eventually.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

And that that place was cool. Um and do you remember Steve Anthony, the VJ from Watch Music? I remember Steve Anthony. So it was a it was Canada Day, but in New York City. So he was hosting this gig.

SPEAKER_00 41:52

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 41:53

Uh and I'd been on tour, and it was another one of those tours with uh this artist. We also toured everything down to semitone to E flat. Okay. Uh instead of, you know, uh instead of E, which is what guitars are sort of the first and last string on the guitar is. Uh and uh they weren't able to rent uh a piano because we're just you know, again, we're the whole thing's tuned down. And we just come from a tour and they were able to get a grand piano, which is cool. So I had to and it was a simulcast. I had to transpose the entire set a semi-tone live while it was being broadcast. Oh shit. So that was that was a trip. Because it was otherwise I wouldn't be able to do it.

SPEAKER_00 42:38

Were you sober with all this? Or were you Oh yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 42:40

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:41

It was I I did you ever drink on like did you ever I was I was drinking at that point.

SPEAKER_01 42:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 42:47

Um and did you ever go on stage with a little like you know, like a Jim Morrison and a little wobbly, you know what I mean?

SPEAKER_01 42:54

Like Oh, in White Calbell? The question is, did I ever not?

SPEAKER_00 42:58

Oh, okay.

SPEAKER_01 42:59

Oh, absolutely. Okay. Yeah, I mean, you know, it was it was a low-key band that involved a lot of uh strippers and chainsaws and fire breathing and that sort of thing. Four guitar players playing through marshals, guys playing slide guitar solos to Freebird with uh a member of his anatomy. Okay, you know, so yes is the answer, and there is some good video footage of uh of that. It's it's it's around. Exactly. Which is, you know, why I don't feel the need to do it so much anymore.

SPEAKER_00 43:33

Yeah, no, no, we're older, we don't need to do that, you know.

SPEAKER_01 43:35

But but uh but absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:39

That's cool.

SPEAKER_01 43:40

Oh yeah.

SPEAKER_00 43:41

Well again, on tour, again, a lot of people don't know what on tour is.

SPEAKER_01 43:45

That's right. Oh, to go back to that uh to that Yeah, New York. To to New York for a second with that gig. So we play the gig.

SPEAKER_00 43:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 43:52

That was great. Um and then we Serena Ryder, I think, was on the gig too. Okay. And a few other friends. And then we went to a pub. I think it was maybe the next day on uh it was a Sunday. Right. And the person I was on tour with in Serena, it was it was very funny. Just got into a got into a bit of a thing. Like like just joking around like kind of play fighting. But they ended up taking out a whole brass sign as they rolled down the stairs and we, the Canadians, got thrown out of an Irish pub in New York City on a Sunday. All of us. They just like you're all out. So that was pretty funny.

SPEAKER_00 44:32

That that's a great story. Yeah. That's a great story. Yeah it was good. That was a good time. Yeah. So again, people who don't know when you're on tour How are the ladies around? I don't know what you're talking about. Oh okay. We'll leave that alone.

SPEAKER_01 44:50

No, there's no there's no dead zones. You can ask me whatever.

SPEAKER_00 44:53

No no no no no no they're lovely. They're lovely. So do you do when you're bagel Montreal saw bagels I don't like because the hole's too big. And when you schmear it all falls through the middle.

SPEAKER_01 45:07

That's true. That that's why you use lettuce as a facilitator to to keep the shit on there.

SPEAKER_00 45:13

I know but you don't put the the cream cheese on the lettuce you put it on the bagel.

SPEAKER_01 45:17

Okay so you like you like the big bready bagel.

SPEAKER_00 45:20

I love the Kiva's bagel.

SPEAKER_01 45:22

Okay but you will you bring me a Kiva's bagel and I'll bring you a Montreal like bagel house bagel?

SPEAKER_00 45:26

You yeah.

SPEAKER_01 45:28

Because I don't I've probably had Kiva's bagel I'm sure I have but I can't think of it right now like exactly what that's like so yeah you know grifes also a small hole in the middle really good I don't I don't know grifes. You don't know grifes what kind of Jew are you I don't know this is me getting out oh my god this is you getting out where's grifes?

SPEAKER_00 45:47

Oh they have a few places.

SPEAKER_01 45:49

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

Yeah but you get that where you get them at different places too. Okay. You know? They're factories on Bathers and Wilson area. Yeah of course that makes sense that makes sense. Alright well let's do a swap okay I'll bring I'll bring you a dozen bagels.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

A dozen? Yeah you can freeze different you'll like them. I'll just bring you a couple because you're probably not gonna like it because the hole's too uh too damn big well I'm I'm not eating bagels because I'm on uh a health kick and you as you notice yeah half of me's gone right you look you're looking great I'm on a health kick too I'm not doing any sugar for the month of April okay I'm on yeah which is a a trip and a half but I'm still I'm still doing bagels I'm like I can't I can't cut it all out yeah at lots of sugar in bagels I know but I'm not doing many not doing many I've cut the sweets down too yeah that's on the road do you not find that you eat garbage all the time a lot of times you have to quite often uh if Tim Hortons is the only thing for a hundred miles I'll starve.

SPEAKER_00 46:53

You'll starve oh yeah I just or not get in a van in a van in the backseat of a van.

SPEAKER_01 46:58

Yep freezing wish praying for death yeah yeah yeah I won't I can't stand a coffee and their food everything their food is all made of sugar everything is yeah I can't I'm not into it. Right. Uh would you go back on a tour if someone asked yeah it would depend on who. Yeah it would just depend on the act. I haven't I haven't felt like touring for quite a while. Right. I did you know I've gone across the country a lot of times um but if if it was an act that I really loved if if I loved the music and it just felt it was it felt right you know and uh we were able to get somebody to like take care of things back at the club. Yeah you know and got a mixture you know you brought some very good people there.

SPEAKER_00 47:42

It's like you know we can hold you know thanks to you.

SPEAKER_01 47:46

Yeah they're they're pretty good eh? They're pretty good you know yeah you know Kurt's amazing it's phenomenal yeah absolutely yeah he's uh yeah is he a front man anywhere or is he just a back he he had his own his own band uh for a while called Ride the Tiger. Okay. Uh that still may exist occasionally here and there. So he's done uh yeah he's done a fair bit of that.

SPEAKER_00 48:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 48:06

Um yeah.

SPEAKER_00 48:07

So but I know you have a sister is she musically inclined too or just you got it all she is she can sing um and she could play a little bit of acoustic guitar. Okay.

SPEAKER_01 48:16

Uh but she was the dancer actually. She's a dancer. She's the dancer. Okay well like competitive dancer like ballet she started off in ballet but she did modern she went to Toronto Dance Theater. Oh she she did modern and uh she was very good at choreography. Nice. Um she's done that recently she lives in I in St. Catharines and has done some choreography for some bands there and for videos. And when she was much younger uh you know Kate Bush's Hounds of Love you know that record yeah she choreographed a piece to the entire second side of that album at Markham Theater. It was amazing. Oh wow so yeah very good at that um I didn't get the dancing gene you didn't get the dancing gene no I've for for most of my life now I've wanted to make a movie called Gotta Dance about how desperately I'd like to be able to dance but how amazingly shit I am at it. And so you basically would see me like you know the whole thing's like maybe five ten minutes stops right and it cuts and you see me in a in a ballet class and I'm wearing a tutu and I'm like trying to do the moves but I'm clearly knocking people over and ruining the class right and then it cuts back to me hanging from my gravity boots right and I'm going in and out of the camera like this going and then in this next scene you see me try to dance by a bus stop and then I'm like dancing at a bus shelter and there's like an old lady just sitting there and she's just like you know doing this and you know that that's been my vision for a long time.

SPEAKER_00 49:36

And my partner here Hayden who's the main guy on this podcast besides me talking yeah he does shorts and you guys should get together and you guys should do this and have a short like a 10 minute short let me see if he looks like his mind is being blown by this incredible pitch right now he's really really busy. He's also very handsome very handsome yeah very handsome man yes yes very nice very very handsome I'm I'm very lucky to have him in my corner doing this with me. Agreed and I'm very lucky to have you in my life doing what you're doing oh likewise likewise absolutely Joe can you address the people that asked about your audio oh okay the first audio of my podcast on my podcast number one was bad so my producer creator engineer and me want to say fuck you we're getting better as we go and I'm not perfect neither are you whoever's out there saying this and if you guys have criticism come on with me criticize me in front of me and I'll love to talk to you I have no issue with anyone and that's how it goes. And you've had criticism before I don't know what you're talking about.

SPEAKER_01 50:50

I don't know what we're talking about sure who hasn't of course right I mean you know that's that's how you learn right it's like you know uh so some people's some people's is constructive and other people's are just you know dumb and douchey so we just sort of decide what's what and we don't have a long time we have a short time but the last question the main question is put music aside what would you have done without music would you become an accountant a doctor a lawyer what what kind of Jew would you be a very bad Jew very bad oh my gosh um well you know uh my parents thought that I might have a future in architecture I like to uh I was always building stuff out of blocks and all kinds of stuff when I was a kid yeah but not like I'm I'm you know I'm no you're mathematically inclined isn't isn't isn't that like architecture mathematical yeah and no no no not so not so much so anyway I thank God for music yeah exactly I'm just saying that that was one thing that they thought might have happened it wasn't me personally um I did enjoy we did a mock trial in high school yeah and I got to be a defense lawyer and we uh we got to put that that show on for people and I actually really got a rush out of that you know I like watching Law and Order when the pandemic hit I watched every Law and Order in order okay there you know and of course the theme song how can you deny it but uh um so I do I did like that but I I didn't really go for a plan B once I once I put my mind to it. Did you go to university? I went to college I went to Humber.

SPEAKER_00 52:38

Okay did you study music there?

SPEAKER_01 52:39

I did. Okay. I did I uh I I mean I finished I got all my O I C OACs and stuff in high school and I could have gone to university but they didn't quite have what I wanted to no university was more uh was more uh it wasn't technical yeah exactly more at uh not as practical yeah exactly so Humber was was that and then I went uh I went to Humber for the first year I got in they only took twenty five students okay on each instrument okay uh and the tuition was five hundred dollars five hundred dollars isn't that nuts that's nuts five hundred uh five hundred dollars doesn't buy you a book these days I think no exactly uh that was when it was at North Campus it was at uh Finch and then they've moved it to Lakeshore afterwards and got way better equipment after I graduated. Uh so I went for a year and I got my ass kicked.

SPEAKER_00 53:27

Okay.

SPEAKER_01 53:28

You know I was like I could solo in one key kinda uh but you know I definitely got my ass kicked and so I took two years off and I just practiced for five hours a day for two years. Okay. And studied privately and then I went back and I did much better.

SPEAKER_00 53:51

Nice. Last question of the night or the day or whatever wherever you're listening to how old were you with your first gig I believe I was sixteen.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

Sixteen garage band no uh the Canadian National Institute for the blind oh yeah I was playing piano it was Elton John's your song and someone else was singing and and he played trumpet. Okay and uh I was supposed to get paid a hundred bucks for that gig and I'm still waiting.

SPEAKER_00 54:21

You're still waiting? Yep. Well they can't see you so you know they don't know they don't know they didn't know you left or stayed they didn't know where you were sorry sorry sorry that's that's rude but you know we gotta have some fun with life you know we can't all be perfect. Yeah yeah yeah okay so that's cool yeah thank you again for coming it's my pleasure thank you Mario Starnberg no I'll have you on again soon not soon I'll have you on again when I need a good guest you've been a great guest thank you so much thank you so much I think Hayden and Jake thank you also yeah thanks Jake thanks Hayden and thanks for this alrighty and then we'll see you around and I'll bring you bagels I love it likewise okay buddy all right thanks thank you