What Divorce Really Does To Kids: A Candid Conversation With My Son, Connor

In this special episode, Carolyn is joined by her 21-year-old son Connor for an honest, warm, and sometimes confronting conversation about what it's really like to grow up through parental separation. Connor experienced two of Carolyn's separations – at age two and age twelve – and shares what helped, what didn't, and what he wishes had been done differently. An important listen for any parent worried about what divorce is doing to their children.

Key Takeaways

• Divorce is not inherently damaging – but children are far more perceptive than parents often realise. They can feel tension and unhappiness even without words for it.
• What children absorb from the relationship they witness matters. The dynamics they grow up around quietly shape their own relationship patterns.
• Consistency and communication – within your own home, and with your children – are the two most important factors in helping children through separation.
• Parallel parenting is a valid and supported option when co-parenting communication is difficult. Keeping an open channel with your children is what matters most.
• Listening to your children – even when it's uncomfortable – is more important than keeping up appearances of neutrality. They need to feel they aren't alone in their feelings.

Links and Resources Mentioned

• Women's Divorce Academy membership: https://www.womensdivorceacademy.com/our-program
• Kids Helpline: kidshelp.com.au
• Raising Children Network: raisingchildren.net.au
• Australian Psychological Society — Find a Psychologist: psychology.org.au/find-a-psychologist
• Relationships Australia: relationships.org.au

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

The number one question I hear from women going through divorce is how will this affect my kids? It's always the biggest topic. So I thought, who better to answer that question than someone who's actually lived it? Today's episode is a conversation with my son Connor, who is 21 and who has been through not one, but two separations with me like a kid. He was two when I separated from his dad, and 12 when I got divorced from his stepfather. And look, I might be a little bit biased, but he is one of the most emotionally intelligent humans I know. And as you can probably tell from our conversation, I'm more than just a little bit proud of him. Today we talk about what kids actually notice, what helps, what doesn't, and what he wishes I'd done differently, which was a difficult question to ask, let me tell you. Some of it was hard to hear, but all of it is totally worth it. I hope you enjoy this listen. I'm Carolyn Tate, founder of Women's Divorce Academy, and your guide to turning a divorce into the best thing that ever happened to you. This is Divorce with Carolyn. I'm really happy to have you. Well, I'm cautiously happy to have you. Hopefully, you'll say nice things about me. I talked to a lot of women in Women's Divorce Academy about their children, they worry about their children and how divorce will affect their children. So I thought, who better to ask than someone who's been through it? Still fresh, 21. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 1:27

Uh I haven't been divorced, worth clarifying.

SPEAKER_00 1:30

Not yet, growth mindset. Um, but uh, yeah, so you've been through it, obviously, and um and we're we're quite close and we talk a lot about all of these things. So I thought it would be really good. You're a pretty emotionally intelligent, wise person, I think. Yeah. Um, sometimes more than me. And uh, I'd love to get your perspective on on how divorce can be handled in a way that is, I don't know, less damaging. Is it less damaging or is it helpful? I don't know. Is divorce inherently damaging? What do you think?

SPEAKER_01 2:03

That is a hard question. Getting right out the gate with the hard ones. Um I don't think it's inherently damaging. I think it's quite freeing in a lot of circumstances, but I don't think that it's something that you can diminish the damage of either. Because it is like it it has such a massive effect on people. Yeah. Kind of anyone involved in it, in or at least in the inner circle of it. Like so family, you know, children, parents, yada yada, everyone has some sort of involvement or effects from it. Um so I think it isn't inherently damaging, but I also don't want to diminish the damage that it can do.

SPEAKER_00 2:38

Yeah, okay. So let's start off for listeners to get a bit of perspective here on your story. So uh I was living with your dad when I found out I was having a baby, which was a delightful change of course. I'd been at university for six years and I was um ready to really get that career and got this surprise. And um, so it was a change of course, but it was a delightful change of course. And sure. And mostly, and after I got over the shock, but you know, this the collateral damage of that was um that your dad and I didn't last too much longer after that. I think you were two when we finally called at time. We weren't married, so we didn't go through an actual divorce, and the separation was pretty low friction. I mean, he obviously wasn't happy with me, but definitely when it came to the property settlement and everything, everything was pretty smooth. Um, when it came to you, uh, he was very happy for me to have the majority of custody of you because he worked as a chef, so he was very busy. Um, but you had regular contact with him, you were with him two days a week. What do you what do you remember? Do you rem obviously you don't remember being too very much, but what do you remember of those early years after we separated? Do you have particular memories of that and how you understood that time?

SPEAKER_01 3:59

Honestly, I think because it happened when I was so young, it all just felt very normal. It was just sort of uh, you know, it it took making other friends for me to go, oh, this isn't how other families tend to work. But I also was never really particularly upset by that. It was just uh my family works slightly differently and that works for me. A lot of my friends end up coming from homes that either divorce had happened or was imminently happening, um, or you know, wasn't confirmed to be happening, but was probably gonna happen sometime soon. Um and if not, it should.

SPEAKER_00 4:30

Yeah, oh yeah.

SPEAKER_01 4:31

So I had a lot of different family dynamics around me with my friends. So it wasn't particularly tricky having a different one. Um and I do think that being so young, I did have the advantage of just going, well, this is life, right? Like this is what I'm used to, this is what happens. Sometimes it meant that if I'd spent the whole week at yours, sometimes I didn't want to go to my dad's place because I was, you know, more settled into this, or sometimes I didn't want to leave my dad's place because I didn't have much time there. But it ultimately honestly did not make a massive impact on me.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah, yeah. And then of course, you know, I re well, I I I married and had your younger brother and sister and then divorced again.

SPEAKER_01 5:10

And I went, here we go again.

SPEAKER_00 5:13

And you were 12 when that happened. And obviously it had other stuff going on in your life at the time too. But how do you think that what what had the bigger impact on you? And how do you think that affected you, that one?

SPEAKER_01 5:23

I think the second separation probably had more of an impact on me, even just because there were more people involved this time. So, you know, rather than just me and my parents who, you know, to my two-year-old brain, Mum lives here, dad lives here. And I just sometimes see one, sometimes I see the other one. This time I had more of an understanding of what was happening. I had more of I think before it happened as well, I had more of an understanding of maybe it should happen, you know.

SPEAKER_00 5:49

Um You were you were pro that divorce, weren't you?

SPEAKER_01 5:53

Oh yeah. Yeah. Um, but then also, you know, I had my younger siblings to consider, and now, you know, I have my relationship with my mom and my dad, but then also, you know, the guy that was my stepdad and then suddenly isn't as well, which is a really weird sort of relationship to have to someone. Isn't it so weird? You were a parental figure, and then you kind of weren't, and now you're definitely not, and that's really weird because who are you to me now, you know? Um I mean, yeah, he was in my life for a good portion of it, especially developmental years, and that was really tricky for me. But it was also interesting having younger siblings involved because there were times where I felt that I couldn't really be as upset about it because it was their dad, right? Not mine. But and that wasn't a massive thing, but it was something that lingered on my mind every so often was like, do I have the right to be as upset about this as other people? Um, especially because I was kind of pro this divorce to be to begin with. So it was a tricky one to navigate, I think. So I would that one had a bigger impact just because of me being older, the more players and people that were involved with it, it just meant it was a very different scenario. Yeah. Um, and having an older brain just meant that I was not as oblivious to it all the first time around.

SPEAKER_00 7:05

Yeah, I think as well, you're an incredibly empathetic person, and so you and I know that you're quite close with your younger brother and your younger sister, and so I, you know, you were concerned for them, obviously, and and that was tricky. Um because you're a very good older brother as well. I think as well, it's important to mention that like even if you you want the divorce to happen, which I think it was it was in your best interests because you weren't thriving while I was in that relationship. And that was part of what happened. But even if you want it, and even if you know it's good, and and and as a person doing the divorce as well, you know, even if you know it's gonna be a good thing, it doesn't make it easy and it's and it's a really tricky time. And a lot of women that I work with are really their primary concern is what divorce is going to do to their children more than anything else. And I know a lot of women stay in unhappy relationships, or even relationships that are like, meh, but you know, they they want more for their lives, but they're like, I'll just stay for the children. What do you think of that? And what would you say to those women?

SPEAKER_01 8:06

I think that like the number one thing that I want people who are going through that to understand is obviously depending on how old your children are, but the chances are they can tell. Again, I've had a lot of friends that have had sort of rocky family relationships or parents who have divorced or parents who have separated or that sort of thing. And anyone that I've known whose parents got divorced in the time that I knew them have said to me that they can tell it's going to happen or it needs to happen. You know, like there have been times where um I've had a very I had a very close friend to me go, like, you know, yeah, my parents are still together, but I wish they weren't because the dynamic that it's created in this house where they're trying to act like everything's okay, kids are very perceptive. They can see a lot more than people often give them credit for. So that doesn't mean that, oh, well, the kids know let's just get divorced. But I think it does mean that at least keeping it age appropriate, but be a little bit more open with them, that doesn't mean bashing the other parent. It doesn't mean going like, well, everything's fucked. It just means going, yeah, then maybe there are some struggles, you know. Um, maybe they need reassurance, maybe they need something else. But kids are a lot more perceptive than we often give them credit for. And I think that if you are considering divorce, if you are thinking that something's just not right in the relationship, if the relationship has been rocky or unstable, the chances are your kids see that as well. Um, they might not even have a word to put to it. They might not know that mummy and daddy are unhappy, they might just go like something's weird at home, something's wrong at home, and they just don't know what it is. But yeah, I do think like my biggest, my number one thing every time is just your kids probably already know.

SPEAKER_00 9:42

That's a really good point. And I think also off the back of that, my concern was that also your kids would grow up thinking this is what a relationship looks like. Because I I I I want the three of you to know what a healthy relationship looks like and know how to resolve conflict and know what real love looks like and real support looks like. And I know that that's not what you are seeing.

SPEAKER_01 10:05

I think that as well, like on a more global scale, like not just in the family, but I think that it can sort of encourage a lot of depending on what the relationship's like, how it can affect young girls, young boys, like, you know, is it accidentally teaching your daughter that she should just stay quiet in situations she's uncomfortable in? Is it accidentally is it accidentally teaching your son that he's allowed to push people around until they say yes to something, you know? Um, and obviously that's a very sort of gender roles-based approach to it, but I think it's also very important to even beyond, like, you know, you want to keep the family together for the children, but also consider how what they're seeing could influence their decisions in the future and how they act towards other people in the future. Are they going to look at the relationship in front of them with their parents and go, well, I guess that's what I grow up into. I guess that's how I can treat the people around me. I guess that either, you know, I have to stay quiet to keep the peace, or I have to, you know, be loud and push people. Like I think that it has a really massive effect there that a lot of people don't really realise.

SPEAKER_00 11:08

That's a very good point. See, I told you I told you he was more emotionally intelligent than me. What was the hardest part for you about growing up between two homes?

SPEAKER_01 11:18

The hardest part was forgetting my school uniform at someone's house and having to go get it.

SPEAKER_00 11:22

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 11:24

Um, especially because my dad uh lives quite far away. But uh it did mean that, you know, there were very different emotional dynamics in each household. And sometimes I just wasn't ready for one of them. Sometimes I would go from a very calm household into one that was very hectic and full of lots that I just didn't really know how to deal with. And especially when I was younger, there just wasn't as much choice. It was like you're going to your dad's place, you're going to your mum's place. It's not really uh because people have work schedules, people have stuff they need to do. Fair enough. Um, but trying to adjust to the ups and downs of it all was really, really tricky. Um, and it's something that like I've been in therapy for, it's something that I've sought a lot of help for because it did really affect me and how I would cope with my own emotions and things around me, because I was so used to things being so hectic and scattered, and things are like this at one house and things like this at the other house, which actually, even that sort of different rules, different expectations are everything like that, trying to keep that all in mind and remember what's okay at this house, what's okay at this house. Like it's exhausting, honestly.

SPEAKER_00 12:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

That mental load is huge. It was quite exhausting, to be honest. Not so much when I was younger, because when I was younger, you know, it was a bit more stock standard as for raising a child, you know.

SPEAKER_00 12:37

Um I think your dad and I were quite aligned early on and we communicated quite well about the rules at each ho uh at each home. And I think that then down the track things got quite different, and that's when it started to get tricky.

SPEAKER_01 12:48

Yeah, there are more disagreances as to what's cool, what's not. And my dad was not often a particularly forgiving person. So, you know, if I forget that something's a rule at his place but not at Mum's place, for example, you know, it would be quite tricky. I'm not doing anything maliciously, I'm just struggling to adjust because I've just spent a whole week at this house where, say, I'm allowed to swear, and then I'm at this house and I've accidentally said something and now I'm in trouble, you know? So it was it's a tricky thing. I think, yeah, it's tricky, but it's not inherently going to be like that. I think that I just unfortunately was going towards the end, unfortunately, was between uh an empathetic house and an um and an unempathetic household. And that's just a personal thing. That is not inherently how it's going to be for anyone. But that was what I found tricky about it.

SPEAKER_00 13:35

Yeah, and that brings up a good point that I know a lot, you know, when we talk about uh there's something called parallel parenting, which is if you don't communicate well with the other parent, um, you just basically um do your own thing in your home. They do their own thing in their home and you you just don't communicate about it, which is actually what I do with my younger two because I'm the my relationship with my ex-husband is not cordial. So, and that's the best you can do in that situation. And a lot of experts say it's fine. Obviously, communicating well and being consistent is your A plan, right? But the B plan is you just stay consistent in your home and that's all you can control, and that's okay. And so my question for you is in that situation, what could have been done differently to make it easier for you?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

I think that consistency is key. I think that one of the biggest things that I struggled with was the fact that it changed from both of these households being very similar with the same rules, same parenting style, to suddenly one's different. And I had to get used to that very, very quickly. So it's consistency is key. And I think touching on what I said earlier about how, you know, your kids can tell people are worried about divorcing or separating because they're worried about how it's going to affect their kids. I think actually the biggest thing you can do to make sure that the kids stay happy rather than trying to stay together is just make sure that your communication is solid. Like communicate with your kids, communicate with your partner, make sure that everyone is just on the same page. And even if people disagree about what that page is, at least everyone's there. And at least you don't have to scramble going back and forth, going, what is this? What is this? What are you saying? What are you saying? What's actually happening? You know, I think just communication and consistency is the most important thing about it all.

SPEAKER_00 15:18

I love that. I hope you're enjoying this episode of Divorce with Carolyn. If you are, please take a moment to subscribe and leave a review. It makes a real difference in helping other women to find the show. And if you have a question or a topic you'd like me to cover in a future episode, please send me an email at hello at women's divorceacademy.com. I'd love to hear from you and make sure we're covering everything you want to know about divorce. Now here's a tricky one. If you could go back and give me one piece of advice about how to handle things differently for, you know, those early years with your dad or, you know, during the the divorce with your stepdad, what do you think would have made that easier?

SPEAKER_01 16:10

I don't know if I'd necessarily give you advice. I think I just want to go back and tell you like it's gonna end up fine. It's such a tricky situation to get yourself through that I think regardless of how you do it, like at least you're getting yourself through it. And I just think it's worth knowing that there's an end in sight and like you're gonna end up in a spot that's fine, and so are your kids. So you can f take a breath, relax, and that probably would have helped you.

SPEAKER_00 16:37

Yeah, taking a breath would have helped enormously. I know one thing that you have said to me in the past, though, that I'd like to touch on, is that I I made it my mission, and it's it's something that we hear a lot is you don't say anything negative about the other parent. And I was very supportive of your relationship with your dad. And you know, you had a lovely relationship. And so things started to go a little bit sideways with my relationship with him, but I didn't I didn't bring you into that. I kept it very, very civil. And later on, you had said to me that you wished that I had shared more with you. Can you talk a little bit about that?

SPEAKER_01 17:18

I think this falls more into communication and that sort of thing, of just having a better understanding of where everyone's at. And I think it also falls into not pretending that everything is fine if it's not. Um I, you know, having a like as my relationship with my dad got worse and worse, um, which it it's ended in complete no contact now. So, you know, it got to a breaking point and everything. And at the start, it was very much like, well, he's my dad. I I can't have negative feelings about him. I can't have a bad relationship with him, he's my dad. So I do think that the knowledge of it's not just me would have been very nice. That's another thing to consider, I guess, when communicating with your kids. Is I think I would have liked to know that it wasn't just me. And I think another thing is because it wasn't just necessarily that you wouldn't say anything negative about him. It was, you know, you'd encourage me to keep seeing him, even when I wasn't particularly keen on it. And I think that there is a place for that. I think that there is definitely a place and time for like, I know you don't want to go to your dad's house, but it's good to keep that relationship up. But at a certain point, it also does need to be, if it's a repeated sentiment of I don't want to be at my mom's house, I don't want to be at my dad's house, blah, blah, blah. It needs to be looked into a little bit. And I do kind of wish it was looked into a little bit earlier for me. And I know I've said in the past as well that I do think that a lot of it came from your experience with your parents' separation, um, where I know you didn't see your dad very much, and then one day it just ended. Um, and so I I do think that a bit of that came from maybe your relationship with your dad and hoping that I wouldn't have to go through the same.

SPEAKER_00 18:52

Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Overcorrection. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 18:55

It's just overcorrection. So it's just something to be mindful of, you know. Um, and I think like it's impossible to go through it all perfectly, whether it's the first time or the tenth time you're getting divorced. Like you're probably not through it.

SPEAKER_00 19:09

At that point, fingers crossed, we don't get there.

SPEAKER_01 19:11

At that point, I have a couple of questions for you, but I don't think it's gonna go perfectly, whether it's the first time or the tenth time. So I think it's just paying attention, um, being communicative with your kids. You don't need to sit down and badmouth their dad, even if he is a POS, but still just that stands for piece of shit. I'm trying to keep it like kosher.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

You said fuck before, so I think it's kosher.

SPEAKER_01 19:34

Um even if their dad is a POS, like it's just you don't need to badmouth him, you don't need to turn them against him, but listen to your kids, let them know that maybe they aren't alone in feeling that, and just look into what help you can get them. Because you also don't need to be their sole source of support. Like therapists, friends, yada yada, they're really good to talk to. So just make sure they have some sort of outlet for it and see if it's a real uh legitimate issue or if it's just obviously feelings are still very real and valid, but if it's just getting through feelings.

SPEAKER_00 20:03

That's a really good point. Thank you for sharing that. And I think, yeah, you make a lot of good points there. Something I want to go back to there is what I wish I had done in that situation is as you say, not necessarily tell you that I think your dad sucks, even though that's what I was thinking at the time, but listen, like ask you more questions about what was going on, because you know, what I found out later was that there were all these things going on at his house that I was not aware of that I would have had something to say about. And I definitely would have kept you with me much sooner. And so finding those things out later, I think was yeah, it gave me pause and made me think about yeah, how I could have handled it better. And that's definitely how I would have handled it better. And and not so much the telling you what I thought of him, but just listening more to what you thought of him. Instead of yeah, instead of just you know, saying, well, he's your dad, you should, you know, maintain that relationship. So um, so that's my big learning from that. And obviously that's not going to happen for everybody. For you know, for a good lot of people, children have two loving parents who just don't want to live together anymore. And that's you know, that's that that's the divorce dream. But that's definitely a lesson that I learned from you. So thank you for teaching me that.

SPEAKER_01 21:24

And I think it's just very quickly, I think like the communication, this is it it all literally all just boils down to consistency and communication, right? And I think it's especially important if you're parallel parenting, if you are just going like, you know, your house, your house, mine is mine, let's have our own rules. I think that that might be a much easier way to do it for a lot of people, especially if you just don't feel like arguing and settling on rules. But I think if that's how you're doing it, it is so especially important to hear kids out if they say they don't like something. Even if there's nothing that you can necessarily do about it, just giving them that support and place to communicate about it. I think it's Worth it regardless of how your parenting, I think it should be done. But I think especially if you're parallel parenting, having that communication and really just an open channel of communication with your kids is really important, especially. Um, or if you've divorced on bad terms or anything like that, I think that just listening to your kids is going to be the absolute key. And I know it sounds super simple, like duh, but it is like just really taking that time to listen, to understand, and to support them.

SPEAKER_00 22:30

Yeah, thank you. I think that's really important. And I know it can feel a little bit tricky as as the other parent to create space for that because it's almost like you're trying to get them to dish dirt or something, you know. And that's something I've learned from you that I do more effectively with my younger kids now. So I appreciate that. You've really been the canary down the mine shaft. Sorry about that. But I have learnt a lot from you, and and I'm really grateful for that.

SPEAKER_01 22:54

Um, tips for getting divorced. Have one child go through it first and then have more laid down the line. So you have like a test control.

SPEAKER_00 23:03

Yeah, that's terrible. Okay, here's a tricky one. Has anything good come out of it?

SPEAKER_01 23:09

I don't see my dad anymore.

SPEAKER_00 23:12

I know if we were still together, that'd be tricky. You can say that one.

SPEAKER_01 23:17

Yeah. Like, I mean, obviously, seeing as you guys got uh separated when I was so young, you know, and my relationship with him went downhill much later down the line, it wasn't as big a deal when you got divorced, but it was it is still very much a relief to go. Actually, I don't have to come home and see him every day. Um I can come home and see him never. Beautiful. But also, like it's I think it has been a massive boost in empathy and just being aware of people around me. And I think, you know, at first it gave me a lot of reservations about going into relationships and being unsure as to if it was worth it and that sort of thing. But I came over I got over that very quickly and went, yeah, it is still worth it. Like divorce, you know, might happen, but also should it happen, I feel like I'm more prepared for it than others might be too. Um I've seen the good that can come of it.

SPEAKER_00 24:08

So you're in a stable loving loving relationship at the moment, yeah, which is delightful. Hoping to not get divorced, but yeah. Um something that is important to mention there too is and and you touched on it before, is you have been to therapy about this stuff. And I think sometimes people can be it feels like sending your kids to therapy is is the bad thing, like oh no, my kid needs therapy. But actually, I think therapy is amazing, and you are without a doubt, the most emotionally intelligent 21-year-old I know.

SPEAKER_01 24:43

I've got a lot of therapy.

SPEAKER_00 24:45

You're more emotionally intelligent than most adults I know, and you you really and and anyone anyone listening to this will will know that because you have such insight into all of this stuff, which is why I really wanted to tell your story. Um therapy can be wonderful for but you have to find the right one, of course, that you feel comfortable with. But I know that it made a big difference for you. And as the mum, as things started to go south with your dad, I know I couldn't control that side of the equation. All I could do was create a stable, loving home where I was and then get you the help that you needed. And whether that's like you said, friends, whatever, but I it was also really important for me when I got divorced for you guys to have other trusted adults in your life that you felt like you could go to. Yes. Um, because I can't be all of the things. You will get up to some stuff that you don't want to tell me, and that is okay with me. Of course, I want you to be able to come to me for anything, but also, you know, having those other adults around has been really help um important for me as well.

SPEAKER_01 25:47

I think as well, just touching on therapy. If you're drowning, don't wait until you're under the water to like to ask for help. You do not have to have anything wrong to go to therapy. No. Um, you can just go. You can just go and you can just like tell them about how great your day was. And honestly, like they might appreciate it.

SPEAKER_00 26:04

Or you can probably find that a great release.

SPEAKER_01 26:06

Yeah, right. Um, you are if you are going to therapy for any reason, like it's a valid reason to go to therapy, right? You again don't wait until you are under the water, sinking to the bottom, to tell people that you're drowning. Tell them when you are noticing that you're starting to get tired of keeping yourself afloat. Like it is just again, you don't need to be sick or unhappy or unwell to go to therapy. Just having that support is so good. And then, you know, building that support early means that when something or if something terrible happens, you know who to go to. It's not a scramble to go like, I need someone to talk to, but I just don't know who I'm comfortable with. Yeah. I don't know if I can see this therapist about it. That way you've already established those relationships and it feels much more secure and stable than yeah, realizing that actually I'm in way over my head, I can't deal with all this. And now on top of all that, I have to find someone to tell about this. I think that establishing those relationships for kids and for yourself is really important to do early on.

SPEAKER_00 27:02

That's an excellent point. And I think even, you know, finding one if you don't already have one, finding a therapist that you trust and and all of that sort of thing is great. And also saying to them, we're about to go through this big thing, what can we put in our toolkit to get ready? So yeah, be prepared. Make it as easy on yourself as you can and as easy on your kids as you can. I think it's it's wonderful. Okay, I have one last question for you. If you could talk to women who are going through divorce right now or thinking about going through divorce right now, and they're worried about their kids, what would you tell them?

SPEAKER_01 27:35

Probably I'd just touch on communication. I think make sure that your kids are feeling stable, secure, they know their place in the family, they know that their place in the family isn't being taken away. They just know that maybe the dynamics are changing a little bit. Um, I think there are so many different situations in which, you know, divorce is necessary or it happens. And it can be really tricky to explain that to them sometimes, especially depending on how old they are. But just reassuring them that like everyone still loves them, they did not do anything wrong, and that things are changing, but things are also going to get better is really important. Um, but also again, find them other support services. Don't be your child's only support service because you need to make time for yourself as well. So find them a therapist that they're comfortable with or a social worker or anyone else. Um, you know, have them stay with other family every so often just to feel connected with everyone around them so they don't feel isolated, which kind of happens sometimes. And then use that spare time to do something fun for yourself, like take child-free time. I think especially women in divorce come out of it going like, well, now I have to do everything and take care of my children all by myself, depending on, you know, whether or not you get into another relationship. Even then it can feel very much like I still have to care for my children. Let other people do some of the work sometimes, you know. It's I mean, it takes a village, right? But I think that if you want that village, you have to help create that village. So you have to talk to people around you, talk to other friends, therapists, just find that support for your kids and for yourself, and it will be infinitely easier.

SPEAKER_00 29:04

I love that. And also, yeah, I mean, kids can tell when you're trying to pour from an empty cup, right?

SPEAKER_01 29:08

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 29:09

You can tell. We're not fooling anyone.

SPEAKER_01 29:12

You're not you're not as good at hiding it as you think you are.

SPEAKER_00 29:15

No, I know I'm not good at hiding it. I know you can always tell when I'm trying to. Okay, Connor, thank you so much for joining us. You are excellent. If doing this alone feels heavy, Women's Divorce Academy offers clear guidance, practical tools, and a supportive community for the legal, financial, and emotional realities of divorce. Whether you're considering separation in the middle of it, or rebuilding afterwards, there's something here for you. Find us at Women's DivorceAcademy.com.