Patricia left an abusive marriage - and discovered a world of pleasure

Patricia left her marriage with a washing machine, a toddler, and a baby on the way - with no family nearby or government support - and built a life from there that she never thought possible. 

Patricia is the author of The Pleasure Lit Way, and in this episode she talks about leaving, rebuilding, and what it actually means to feel safe in your own body.

We talk about the domestic violence cycle Patricia lived inside for years, the moment she knew she had to leave, and how she went from feeling completely disconnected from her body to building a life around somatic pleasure. 

Key takeaways:
- The domestic violence cycle - honeymoon, tension, explosion, apology - tends to get worse over time, with the good periods getting shorter
- Safety in the nervous system has to come before pleasure - you can't access one without the other
- Somatic pleasure is about being present in everyday moments, not just intimacy
- A "pleasure menu" - a written list of small and big things that bring you joy - is a simple way to start reconnecting
- Letting yourself fully feel a difficult emotion, rather than suppressing it, can lead somewhere unexpected

Links mentioned:

- Download your own Pleasure Menu here
- The Pleasure Lit Way by Patricia
- Pleasurelit

Support resources:
This episode includes discussion of domestic violence. If you need support:
- 1800RESPECT (Australia) — 1800 737 732, available 24/7
- Lifeline Australia — 13 11 14
- If you're outside Australia, search for your local domestic violence helpline, or contact emergency services if you're in immediate danger

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Transcript

SPEAKER_00 0:00

One thing I've learned after years of working with women rebuilding their lives after divorce is that the moment of leaving rarely comes with a plan. That is if you're the one to leave. But it does come with certainty that there has to be something better out there. Today's guest Patricia left her marriage pregnant with a toddler in tow and the washing machine. No plan, just the certainty that staying wasn't an option. And a quick note, because we do talk about domestic violence as part of Patricia's story today, so if that's something that you can't take in right now, that is okay. We've put some support resources in the show notes for anyone that needs them. What she built from there is what she writes about in the pleasure-lit way. And it's something I see in my own work all the time too: women leaving an unsafe relationship and then once they've found safety, actually rediscovering themselves and what pleasure means to them. And Patricia articulates it so beautifully. I actually got goosebumps twice during this chat. Originally from Germany, Patricia now lives in Australia and has trained as a fitness coach, yoga teacher, and tantra practitioner. Now she helps other women find that same safety in their bodies. And pleasure too, unapologetically. Listen out for the story about the soccer ball. By the end of it, you will know Patricia knows exactly what she's talking about when it comes to pleasure. I'm Carolyn Tate, founder of Women's Divorce Academy, and your guide to turning a divorce into the best thing that ever happened to you. This is Divorce with Carolyn. Patricia, thank you for joining us today. Now you describe yourself as a former good girl. What did that what did being a good girl look like for you and how did that show up in your relationship?

SPEAKER_01 1:41

So when I was very little, very young, I grew up in a family environment where it was kind of like my mother was emotionally unavailable. My dad eventually left, and then there was a stepdad who was unpredictable. And eventually I learned to be hive, to just follow along, to just follow the instructions, just don't do anything wrong because otherwise I could get myself in trouble. And eventually also to get to the point where I was the good girl that people please are the high achievers. So the more I achieved, the better I was, the more I'm gonna be loved, the more I'm gonna be praised, the more I'm gonna stay safe and feel loved and seen. And eventually, moving on, moving out, and becoming an adult, that kind of followed me along because it was an adaptation in my childhood. And as an adult, it showed up as people-pleasing, high achieving, just continuously doing, doing, doing, becoming the strong one, the independent one. But then I also in that same moment met someone who was love-bombing me and who was really, I love you and I'm gonna protect you, and I can see like you're doing so much, and let me like be there for you. And because I was seeking such strong love and support from like externally, I was just like, oh my god, finally someone. So this show has then shown up that I got into a toxic relationship, which became my marriage, and eventually I broke out of that and then started my healing journey to really work on all of these old conditions to then transform into actually becoming a woman that is embodied, loves herself deeply, and yeah, knows that her love and her self-worth isn't connected to how much she's achieving or how good she's going in life. My gosh.

SPEAKER_00 3:37

I mean, that's something I think that a lot of women can relate to, and and perhaps many are still on that journey. I think you've done a remarkable job. How long were you in that marriage for? How old were you when you got married, and then how long were you married?

SPEAKER_01 3:49

I've met him when I was 20, and then it went all very quickly. And when I was 21, uh we got together, and within a few months, I think it was just three or four months, he's like, Oh, I'm going to Australia, I want you to come with me. And I'm like, Okay, I'll pick my things and I've got to follow you to Australia. And within a year, like while we arrived in Australia, he proposed, and then within a year we got married, so it was all very fast, very quick. And I stayed there until uh 2017. So when I was pregnant with my second, that was the moment when I left. And so you're from Germany? I'm from Germany originally, yes.

SPEAKER_00 4:29

And is he Australian or from where is German?

SPEAKER_01 4:32

He's also from Germany, so he's German and he had the big dream of Australia, and yeah.

SPEAKER_00 4:37

Right. And so, and I know that's a really classic uh controlling thing to do too, is to remove you from all of your support and have you in an environment where it's really difficult for you to find that support. What did when you made the decision to leave, what did that look like and what did you have to to work through to make that happen?

SPEAKER_01 4:56

So within our relationship and then marriage, it was actually looking back quite obvious for anyone externally that this was a toxic relationship. But I was such involved in like, oh, he loves me, and that's just his way of how he loves me. And eventually I unconsciously knew that this wasn't great, but I was really invested in it. So there's like all these questions that come up, like maybe I deserve this, maybe I've did something wrong, or eventually I'm gonna be the one who's gonna change him. I'm gonna be the one who's like, you know, because of me, he's gonna change, and like all of these things. And now we're married, and you don't just leave. Uh, when it gets hard, you work through it, and then we've tried coupled therapy, and we've tried everything really along the way. We had quite like the domestic violence cycle. When you look at that, there's this honeymoon phase where everything is great, and then you start to it gets a bit tricky, so you already start walking on eggshells, and it's like something's like stirring the pot, and eventually comes this big explosion of something goes wrong. There's this big fight, and then they come around, it's like, I'm so sorry, I didn't mean it, or I was drunk, or like whatever excuse, or eventually it was all your fault because you did this, and because of you I did that. So, and eventually you come back together and you've got this honeymoon, oh, he's changed, everything's great, and it just went around and around. But over the years, it just got more in quantity and quality. So the the period of shims of like everything's great just got shorter, and it was almost like an expected thing. I did not know any of that when I was in it, I learned all of that after when I've left. But looking back, it just all like made so much sense when I had this big my this is the thing. And the thing was it was getting to quite in intense. Like every time I thought, this is gonna be it, this is gonna be the limit. He's not gonna do anything worse than that. He topped it. And when I was pregnant with the second, we had one really big explosion where he hit a point where I said to myself, if this ever happens, I will have to leave. And that happened. And that happened, and it looks like I'm getting goosebumps when I'm just talking about it. It looks like it might have to happen because that was a moment where I just looked up at him and I'm just like, that's it. Like I don't feel anything. It was like it was wiped away. And I tried to leave before that a few times, but it pulled me back. Where this was it was just clear, and and he knew it. He he looked at me like, oh, this time it's really like it. And I'm like, Yeah, I don't feel anything for you anymore. Like, there's nothing. And I'm asking you, I want to leave, and I'm gonna take the washing machine of the children, I'm gonna go. The important things, and then that's how I left. And I had this one bedroom apartment, and the first day of waking up, and I remember just like opening the curtains, and there was this big lake, and there was a sunrise, and I looked at the sunrise and I took a deep breath, and I'm like, oh, this is gonna be it. I I just need like everything's gonna be better from there on. I had no idea how to make it work, no family surround it, no family support. I wasn't a permanent resident, so I haven't had any government support, no child subsidy support, whatever you get, family tax, nothing of this. All I knew was it's just gonna be better. I I'm gonna make it work. And I did.

SPEAKER_00 8:40

Wow. That's I got peace bumps too then. That was incredible. Especially, you know, you were you were how pregnant were you at this point?

SPEAKER_01 8:47

I was like when this happened, the explosion happened when I was about like six weeks pregnant. So it was very early. Um, and then obviously needed a bit of time to then get everything together and really like get a place and move. And I think at that stage, that was August, and that was about four months pregnant. So yeah. And I had quite a few reaching out saying, like, are you okay? Like, you can't just leave. Like, you're pregnant, like you're pregnant with a second. Like, what do you think is gonna happen? How are you gonna make that work? Like, you need to think about the children. I'm like, I am thinking about the children. Like, this is exactly why I'm leaving. Because the next thing that could happen, like, my children do not deserve to grow up in a household like this and grow up and then end up also in a toxic relationship and marriage. Like, I'm gonna be the one breaking the cycle here, so I'm out.

SPEAKER_00 9:38

Yeah, and and and that leads me to a question which, and we'll get into your wonderful book in a moment, but I know that in your book Dedication, you wrote about um your children being the reason that you were finally brave enough to break out of that relationship. Can you tell me a little bit more about that?

SPEAKER_01 9:51

Yes, because when this happened, the explosion, this fight, it got quite physical, and I was pregnant. So I had a living baby inside me where I got then physically hurt on my body, not just emotionally and all of the others that all happened within our relationship and marriage as well. But in that moment, I'm like, it's not just me you're hurting here right now. And that was a moment where I got so and I recently came across something where why are we looking for men to be our protectors when the real protectors are the mothers? Because there's no other protection like a mother protecting her child when you look at that. And in that moment, that really came out. It's like, this is my child, they're my children, I'm I'm a mother, like it's not me who you're hurting. This is not going to be the life that they want that I want for them to grow up in. So I knew I needed to not just make that decision for myself, but also for them. And they encouraged me, they gave me that extra little push where I knew like I have to get out of here.

SPEAKER_00 10:54

Yeah, yeah. And how old was your eldest at that point? Two. Two, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 11:00

So yeah, it was a toddler and a baby.

SPEAKER_00 11:03

Yeah, that's incredible, you know. But as you say, I you know, and I I can see why people would have been concerned, but that it sounds like the least safe place for you to be was in the home. So anything is better than that, right? Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 11:16

And this is something where I then attracted a lot of women in similar situations because I then started speaking about my experience, sharing more about this on social media, because I wanted more women to know what I then found out that this is really a thing and that you can end up this in in this way and share more about my healing journey. And what I've realized is a lot of women then, but when I leave, like I don't have any money, I don't have any of this, and like I'm scared of being alone. I'm like, my anything will be better than staying in a relationship where you are going to be treated like you you're you're nothing worth. Like you don't deserve that. You you deserve the best life to be deeply loved and also by yourself. So just encouraging that anything will be better and you will make it work. You will make it work.

SPEAKER_00 12:11

Yeah, I love that. And I think, yeah, we a few episodes back we had Dr. Marnie Lishman on the podcast who was talking about being alone how wonderful being alone is, and it can be really uncomfortable at first, but once you embrace it, it can actually be the most healing, wonderful thing. And she said, now when she thinks about repartnering, you know, she says, Well, is he better than my alone time? Because my alone time's amazing. So rather than looking, you know, looking for someone like, well, they love me, it's more about are they worthy, worthy of my time, you know, and getting through that I know can be difficult. But something I wanted to really explore with you is what happens in the body after an experience like that. How did you feel physically in those early days? And then, you know, I know that you then discovered somatic practices. Can you talk us through that?

SPEAKER_01 12:53

So when I left the marriage and I was all by myself, it was at first a little bit of an uncomfortable feeling as well. Because all that drama walking on axe shelves was actually taken away. Interestingly, that gave me a lot more energy to focus on something else, which was needed in this regard because I had a young baby and I had a toddler. So I also believe because of that, that really took a lot of my attention and focus, as if to someone who would, when they would leave and they don't have any children and they're just purely by themselves. So obviously, that's a little bit more of a stronger focus, like, okay, that's now just me. When my focus was like, I'm gonna look after my children, I'm gonna create our best life, um, I'm gonna work and I'm gonna start this and I'm gonna start that. Something that really helped me to really start my healing journey was getting into fitness, specifically weightlifting. I wanted to, I had a really strong reason why. I was never a sporty person before that. When I did something, I didn't really start with it. I'm just like, yeah, the gym and stuff. It's like nothing for me. I'm just more creative and arts person and learning and study than moving. But I had a very strong reason why. I wanted to build muscle mass so I could defend myself next time I'm in a position where it gets physical. What I didn't know is that I would uncover so much more what is helping you when you build muscle mass. So at first I had like this tiny little bicep, and I'm like, oh, this looks cool. I got a little bit like, oh, I'm gonna feel stronger, could carry my children and my toddler and my baby, and it was all really great feelings. So it made me feel confident, confident in my skin, confident in myself. And because of that, that dedication and the focus as well, I got more discipline. I started to look after my nutrition. So I then started not just PT, but also I became a nutrition coach, fitness trainer, master trainer, then helping other women as well. And because of that, I fueled my body with better food, like more nutritious food, I should say. And also I moved my body, I had more energy, my libido came back. I just felt really good within myself. And that lifestyle also really helped my children. They joined in. I did everything from home because I couldn't really afford to go to the gym. Like, what am I gonna do with my children? Take them with me. Started to do all of this from home, and that's how I discovered the bodywork because I'm realized this made me feel good, but then I also swung quite a lot into the very masculine, so the doing, doing, doing, strong, independent, that pattern, where I realized my softness was a little bit gone. So where's my softness? Where's that little bit of surrender? And then I had a yoga class where it got really beautiful, beautiful flow, and I cried. I was bawling my eyes out at the end of it, and that was a sign for me when you I think I need to explore that a little bit more. So did my yoga teacher trainer, and then through that I discovered breath work, meditation, my tantra practitioner, and just really got down that rabbit hole of orthomatic practices and modalities, very much just like absorbing and really exploring how we can feel. And I've now connected with my body in a way that I have never before, not even before I have met or got into that relationship. Like I've never been so much in love with myself and be so self-trusting and knowing myself worth and really looking after myself, caring about myself, but also feeling all the sensations, actually surrendering and actually feeling alive. So that's how that journey has then progressed. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 16:47

Which sounds wonderful. I know that a lot of women, you know, when they go through any kind of controlling or domestic violence relationship, a lot of the time that sort of, and you touched on this a little bit, the self-trust and also feeling safe in your own body. Um, and I know that earlier you mentioned too, you sort of you felt separate from your own body in a lot of ways. And I know a lot of women learn to remove themselves as a coping mechanism. So you were obviously that strength training and and the somatic practices and the yoga were helping you to reconnect with your body. Did you notice that starting to happen? And what was that like? And and did you know that's what was happening?

SPEAKER_01 17:25

I didn't know it at the start. So when I was weightlifting, I just knew like, oh, this makes me feel good. Like, let's keep exploring that. With nutrition as well, yoga as well. And it made more sense at the end of the yoga part where I then discovered tantra as well, because then I really got more into intimacy, thematic sex coaching. I really discovered how important it is to actually have this deeper connection to self. And then I started to reflect on all the women that I've helped through my PT, for example, and nutrition. They all said at the end of the feedback, it was never really about, oh, I've lost 20 kilos and I'm happier. It's actually I'm loving myself more. I've got more energy, I'm loving my body more. Like it was about their connection to themselves. And when I looked at all these feedback, I'm like, and this is then when I from went from body transformation coach to actually a self-love coach for a while, because I knew that was like the key, the self-love, because that's our foundation to our happiest, most successful, most pleasurable life. And with self-love, what's the connection is is to actually feel safe in your body. And this is now a huge part in my brand as pleasure-lit, because pleasure, what I've discovered over then is somatic pleasure. Zomatic pleasure is to felt pleasure. So we've got like self-care, we can perform it, we can make it look great that we're looking after ourselves, have 10 steps morning routine and have this and added this and do our morning stretch and but still not feel better because we haven't actually been fully present in the moment and have actually taken the the benefits of it. And when we are fully present, what we then experience is pleasure. The the way how we eat, the way we look at our food, smell it, take in the aroma, taste it, savor it, the way we work out. When I work out now, it's more that I'm focusing on the sensations as well in my yoga stretches, in my yoga sensual floors, but also my weightlifting. When I then lift and like the correct breathing connecting with it, the like the warm-up, the sensations I feel in between, the burn, leaning into that, and then I experience pleasure, and that is somatic pleasure. It's not just in the bedroom, it's in all the things that we do, the way we dress or undress, when we take it actually slowly and focus on the sensations, somatic pleasure. So that's basically what then I discovered changed everything for me, like in life, motherhood, business, relationships.

SPEAKER_00 20:01

Just taking a quick pause here because I made you something and I wanted to tell you about it. In this episode, Patricia mentions something she calls a pleasure menu, a simple list of things that bring you joy. I love the idea so much. I've actually created a free printable version that you can use for yourself. You'll find the link in the show notes for this episode. By all means, finish listening to this episode. Once you're done, hit the link in the show notes and download your own pleasure menu. Okay, let's get back to Patricia. And the idea that you can find pleasure, you know, in all aspects of your life, I think is so mind-blowing for a lot of people. And uh it carries a lot of baggage for women too, the word pleasure, I think. And especially women who have, you know, been through tough things. And how do you work with women to sort of teach them in those early days? I know, so I worked, actually worked with a with a therapist when I got divorced because I had a history of of um sexual violence and stuff that I needed to work through. And so she was teaching me about pleasure as well. And she was like, you know, when you put moisturizer on, just like do it and feel in your skin. And I was just going, like, oh god, like there's an ingrown hair, and like, what am I doing later? And you know, all that stuff. Like, how do you teach women to kind of come at that when it's very uncomfortable in those early stages?

SPEAKER_01 21:20

This is a difference. Like, I actually teach that modality or that process within my Pleasure Lit Woman program when I call it alchemy, it's pleasure-lit alchemy. It's the way we start, we're moving through four phases. Actually, regulation. We actually regulate yourself first. Because if you have got shame or guilt or are really uncomfortable around pleasure, if I then say, like, all right, let's do some self pleasure, your nervous system would go, yeah, nah, not for me, and you would shut down. So, and this is exactly what we don't want. So, we actually start with regulation first to start to feel safe in our body because pleasure can only arrive. We can't, we can Only receive pleasure and experience and hold pleasure, sameless love and abundance and all of that, when we feel safe in our body, when our nervous system is in a regulated state. So we create that body safety. I would teach them about how to regulate your nervous system, but also emotional regulation. So what do you do when emotions come up? Because especially as a good girl and people please are, and when you've been through DV, abuse, assault, you kind of disconnect because you don't want to feel. And it kept you safe for a very long, long period of time. But eventually, when you get out of that unsafe environment and you are in an environment where you want to connect and feel alive again, it doesn't serve you that disconnection. So it's about coming actually back to feeling. And then sometimes grief comes up, sadness comes up about all of that, what happened, which is then expected. So I'm teaching about emotional regulation, nervous system regulation, so we can actually move through those emotions and then transmute and alchemize them into pleasure because an emotion is an energy. So grief, sadness, all of that, we can eventually move through that in such a beautiful way that we come out with pleasure on the other side. I had a I got kicked in the face recently by a soccer ball at soccer training from my son, and it came out of nowhere and like straight up into my face, glasses flew off. I got my nose broken within my DV marriage. So the moment this soccer ball hit my face, I touched my nose. I'm like, oh my god, my nose is gonna be broken. I saw my glasses, and I'm like, okay, I'm not bleeding. It feels all right. I'm safe. I'm safe. I'm safe. Telling myself I'm safe, but my body was like, nah, we're not safe. We are back in when we got our nose broken. So my body was like starting to a little bit shake. I could feel myself like my tears coming up, and I was like surrounded by people, and I'm just like, okay, you're allowed to cry, so we don't have to suppress it because it really hurt. But you also don't have to like completely lose yourself. I promise you, we can, you know, close the loop later. So I made made a deal with myself in that moment to really have my moment. And my kids like, are you okay, mom? You're crying, like, oh, like just give mommy a moment. So did all my my tools, squeezed myself, you're safe, you're here, everything's all right. Did my breathing, did my cupping, did my touching, just to regulate myself enough to drive home. When I was then later in my private moment where I had like no interruptions, I'm like, okay, now you can feel what you need to feel. And then I bought my eyes out, felt the anger, felt the sadness, and was really in those moments, but I was fully embodied. And eventually my body went like, and this is then the moment when the nervous system knows, okay, we are now we we've experienced and felt what we needed to. Now we're coming back to regulation, we're coming back to grounding. And that was a moment when I knew, okay, we're coming back to grounding, started touching. I used my voice, I started singing in between, like whatever the body really wanted to in that moment. So I was moving through it, and eventually I started touching myself. I'm like, oh, that feels nice, that feels also really nice. And it ended up in a self-pleasure session. So I was afterwards came out with an orgasm. I felt very nourished, very satisfied, but it all started with that trauma response of like, whoa, we are back in that. And you can actually move through that in a way that you come out with pleasure on the other side. Because when you look at it, it is somatic. When you feel anger, sadness, grief, you're feeling you're connected to your body. And when you let yourself feel that, you can eventually transmute that energy into pleasure.

SPEAKER_00 25:46

Amazing. Amazing. I love that a soccer ball in the face led to an orgasm. That's incredible. I know, right? It's like, what was happening? I did not see that ending coming. Yeah, me neither. Well, that's I mean, but it's incredible, you know, and I think it's just a great advertisement for this somatic practice, you know, whether whether you want, you know, those sorts of things to end in or in an orgasm or just your ability to self-regulate and to bring things back and and to feel those feelings in the moment that that are happening and then be able like I love that you are able to um say, okay, I'm just gonna deal with this immediate part now and I'll I'll you know close the circle later, which I think is really such a great exhibition of of of uh you know control and then and knowing then how to do how to tap into that later. Because I think a lot of people do the I'll do this later, and then later they go, oh no, it's fun.

SPEAKER_01 26:36

Yeah, I used to be the same. Like this was really that recent scenario was such a beautiful confirmation for myself, also when I am at being able to use those regulation tools in front of my children, which is a great situation as well, for them to like, oh mommy's actually hurt, she's in pain, she's crying, and now she's like asking us for a bit of space. And they like stood back, they just observed me for a moment, and seeing me how I breathe, how I touch myself, how I speak to myself, so that I was regulated enough to drive. And then when I had my private space to actually close the loop, at first I was like, Oh, yeah, feeling fine now. And then I'm like, no, we're not suppressing emotions, we are moving through with them. Let's do this. And I was setting up really a beautiful space, and I've got this beautiful pleasure space in front of my wardrobe mirrors, and I've got blankets, fairy lights, I've got diffusers, and I've got all of these essential oils. So I knew this is like my my safe space where I can let myself go. Moving that through that, this is how it then leads into like just follow whatever the body wants, if it wants to sing, make weird weird noises, move, just dropping into it. And then it just turned into that. So I had no idea. I was just like dropping into the experience. Yeah. That's incredible.

SPEAKER_00 27:52

That's a great story. Thank you for sharing that. Now, women that you work with, obviously, I imagine a lot of women that you work with come, you know, from similar experiences, have been through some kind of trauma or or domestic violence. And how do you it must feel incredible to watch these women go through a transformation like you did and be able to create that, well, co-create that with them. Can you tell us a little bit about that, about what you see in the women that you're working with and how that feels for you?

SPEAKER_01 28:21

Most of the women that I work with are the ones who follow me for a while very quietly, and then I get a random DM usually about I've been following you for what? It's very inspiring, that you've like turned your life around, specifically around DV, I've got something similar happening to me. Could you help me? I'm stuck with such and such. And usually at the moment, it's about they either have never actually prioritized their pleasure at all. So they they usually voice this similar to my situation, being in that relationship, it was all about giving them pleasure, pleasing everybody else. I've never had an orgasm with my partner, I've actually never touched myself, or I wasn't allowed to self-pleasure, um, or it was always about him. I never actually experienced pleasure. Now I don't know what to do with myself. What do I do? And then usually that's where we then start of exploring um the body, creating that safety from within, pleasure mapping to just really actually exploring yourself. And I've done that myself. So this is what I teach and guide women through is a lot of lift experience. I mean, yes, I've done over 20 certifications, qualifications, I've got the professional uh knowledge with it, but it's lift experience, and that's what lights me up. And then being able to guide other women through that and experiencing and witnessing them on that transformation is just everything for me. That's like my devotion and my service, really.

SPEAKER_00 29:51

Well, that's beautiful. And of course, you put it also into your book, The Pleasure Lit Way. Yes. It's also excellent. I will um I'll pop a link to the in the show notes to to both your website and your book so that people can learn more from you. I think there's going to be so many people who yeah, it's it's it opens your eyes to what's possible. You know, it's not just about survival, it's about reclaiming your life and and having, you know, a pleasurable, wonderful life for yourself. I think a lot of people get stuck in that just survival mode. So it's a wonderful thing to think there's more, there's so much more out there for you. Um, you don't just have to hold on and survive. Now, for women listening to this show who are either in the middle of the divorce, coming out the other side, or I know we we have a lot of followers too who are thinking about it and, you know, wanting to escape what they're in. Many of them are dealing with, you know, grief, exhaustion, loss of identity, um, and that disconnection, I think, as well. What would you say to someone who is thinks that they're nowhere near ready to think about pleasure, but is starting to wonder, you know, is there something else out there for me?

SPEAKER_01 30:52

That it doesn't have to like when you just get to a place where you know that you are in a safe space. I think that is like the most important first step. So if you are in an unsafe situation to change it, that you are actually in a safe situation. And from there on, you can start step by step very slowly to actually just connect with your body. It's not about the goal of pleasure, and this is where we get back to in this performance of orgasm, or it needs to be all now pleasurable. It just starts with connecting with your body, and that can look completely different. For one, it's starting it through breath work, through movement, through dancing, through singing. What I find really helpful usually is I suggest to the women to create a pleasure menu. And that is a piece of pen, take a piece of paper and a pen, just sit down and just tune into what are the things that bring you joy and pleasure. And if you haven't experienced any joy and pleasure for a long period of time because you have been in that survival, think back of when you were little, when you were a child. Were you doing arts, were you playing soccer, were you doing a dance class session? Like, was there something collecting stickers, mandalas, reading books, whatever it is? Try to explore what lit you up back then, or just moments of where you had a moment of like, oh, that was great, like that food, that meal, like whatever it is. It could be movement, breath, sound, food, drinks, friends, uh, travel, whatever it is. Write it all down and then create a little menu of these are the things that are short period of time, dancing, singing, singing in the car, putting loud music on, singing in the car brings me a lot of pleasure. The sun, sunrise brings me a lot of pleasure. My morning coffee brings me a lot of pleasure. Like these little things, and then like you can categorize them by little things, short things, and then go a bit a little bit more, like they need a little bit more effort, like going getting a massage or getting my hair done or whatever it is. And then once you've got this pleasure menu, put it up somewhere where you have got it to reach very easily. And then every day pick a few things, create your day, choose and really bring in those little things of pleasure, and before you know it, it will just have this ripple effect and you will create such a pleasurable life.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah, I love that. And the idea that you because it's some I mean, we all it seems like a no-brainer, right? Like, of course you want to do pleasurable things, but I know, yeah, if you just put on the spot what brings you pleasure, you go, oh, I don't know. So having that written down and then also having that reminder of they don't all have to be big things. You don't have to go on a European vacation. You can have a cup of tea in the sun and look at the view or listen to a podcast you like or whatever it is, you know, there's so many different levels of pleasure. And I think having that entry level makes it really much more approachable too for those, you know, who may not be ready for the full shebang just yet, you know, for getting hit in uh in the face with the ball and having an orgasm. So maybe that, you know, knowing that there's like this in-between where you can just, you know, people listening today can, you know, just write that start writing those things, you know, create that pleasure menu. And maybe you don't finish it this week. Maybe just, you know, start it, you know, and and if it's not safe to have it in your home, maybe you keep it on your phone or you, you know, you know, keep it on your computer or somewhere. It's also dynamic, it it changes.

SPEAKER_01 34:25

So you cross things out, you put other things on, minus continuously changing and also growing. When I've just talked about the experience of getting hit and having that trauma experience, crying and then self-pleasuring and having an orgasm. That took me years to get to that point. Um I shared that because I know that it's possible. So I was so disconnected, like so disconnected. I could not orgasm with a partner. I was like, even self-pleasure was very rigid, two minutes using a toy, that was it. I've only unlocked squirting later on or multiple orgasms, blended orgasms, internal orgasms in the last few years. So I had so low self-worth and self-respect. I didn't communicate my needs or my desires, I didn't set boundaries, and when I did speak them, I wrapped them in sorry and could we maybe and or let others override them. So I really, really struggled. So I know what that journey means, and now I know what's possible. So this is why I'm so dedicated in in helping and guiding other women now because what what I'm experiencing now, we all deserve that. We all deserve that.

SPEAKER_00 35:42

Yeah, absolutely. 100% agree. Yeah. You are you and I just thought of a question while you were talking then, which was, you know, you were talking about communicating your needs. And I think a lot of women too don't even know what their needs are because they're so out of touch and they've been catering to other people's needs for so long. I know that for me in the early days, if someone said, you know, I I remember one time I was in the supermarket and I was looking at pasta, for God's sake, for my children. It wasn't even it wasn't even for me, it was for my children. And I did not know what sort of pasta to get because I was like, oh, some like spirals and some like shells. I don't know what to get. And I just thought I'm so far removed from my own self-trust and my own. I mean, my need in that situation is just to pick up a packet of freaking pasta and put it in the trolley, because who cares? But, you know, I knew somebody would be unhappy and I was like really worried about it. And I this my kids were like little and honestly, they can get over it. But I think it that that and I think it comes, as you said, like from that being in your body and noticing things that come up. And so it all starts from that. But that getting back in touch with your needs is so important, and actually being able to articulate them to yourself, even.

SPEAKER_01 36:46

Yes, that is one of the practices of actually reconnecting with yourself. And I had the same when I left. I'm like, I did everything for him. Well, who am I actually? Like, is what we did in our marriage? Is that actually did I like that, or did I do that only for him? Like, I need to explore that. And I went it out and explored things to actually find out is it that what I liked, or was it only because I did it for him? And that was just give it some time, patience, and be curious and and open to explore for yourself. And then yes, definitely learn to speak them, to communicate them, to really reclaim your voice. So I really did a lot of work on reclaiming my voice, and also again, something that I teach with teach the women to say no when they mean no and not yes, which is like such a big thing as well. I said many, many times yes to people and situations and opportunities I should have actually said no to, to actually explore what is uh your embodied yes and no, what what what does it feel like? Because we've lost so touch then into just taking a moment, oh did I feel resistance to that, or did I feel like an aliveness of warmth of like, yeah, uh pulling closer, yeah. That is a yes, yeah. Or like, no, I'm getting somehow like tightening in my throat, or like something feels weird, like, oh no, I'm actually not really sure about that. Let me just, you know, explore that a little bit more.

SPEAKER_00 38:12

We talk a lot in Women's Divorce Academy as well about the importance of saying no. And often, you know, we we get people to start small, you know, with like something that there's low stakes, you know, because like the women that you work with, I work with a lot of women and and I don't say this lightly, but who are praise junkies, you know, like I was too. And and that's, you know, why we put others' needs ahead of ours, because we love the praise that we get for it, because they think we're great and we think that's awesome. And so just getting out of that easy win, which is pleasing people, so saying yes, and then people are happy with you, and that feels good in the moment. It's like a sugar hit, isn't it? It feels good in the moment, but then actually drilling down to, oh, hang on, does that actually serve me? Am I am I going to be like running around like a choke with its head cut off after school because I've agreed to do all these other things for other people? And and so I think, yeah, that sort of starting small with low stakes no's about things that don't even matter. Even that can be really confronting.

SPEAKER_01 39:05

What you just mentioned, first of all, I love what you do in your academy and helping women, so I really celebrate you, but you need more of that. I love that you also speak into saying no because it's such such an important part. And what I've what you just mentioned with the identity of I'm the one who's being needed, everybody's gonna rely on me. Um, I love being praised. It's like a praise kink. We're kind of getting off on that. And when you've read, I'm not sure, existential kink, that is kind of like shadow work that goes into exploring why you actually hold on to that identity. Because sometimes you do crave a life where you can surrender a little bit more, soften a little bit more, receive love and receive pleasure from others, but then you also, I'm not gonna put my walls down, I'm gonna like focus on this because this works, people will love me for that, and you connect yourself with and love with that. And sometimes you have this resistance of letting go of that identity because you're like getting off on it. It gives you that little bit of a kick, it's like a kink. But receiving surrendering and opening yourself up to love and pleasure and all of that does not mean you become weak or you can't get praised. You can have that praise that you seek, but just receiving it in a different way. In a way of actually receiving it and opening yourself up to the love and pleasure and the praise to actually also let it land and not just chase the next thing because most of the time it doesn't actually satisfy us. We're just like continuously going for the next thing and the next thing and the next thing because we're looking for something instead of opening ourselves to actually fully receive.

SPEAKER_00 40:49

Yeah, it's a bottomless pit, you know. I think as far as that praise goes, you know, you just you get a pat on the head and then you're just looking for the next chancing for the next hit, you know. So and I think it's also it also comes a lot from from just not understanding your own intrinsic value and not knowing that you're, you know, very worthy just for being who you are, not because of your function, which I know you know in other people's lives, and I know a lot of women struggle with that. I think you've got so much wonderful wisdom to share. Thank you for joining us today. If you could go back and talk to Patricia when she was leaving that marriage, what would you say to her about the future?

SPEAKER_01 41:25

I would probably hype her up and say you've got no idea how much your life is going to change and how much pleasure and love you're going to experience. The leaving that relationship was the best uh thing that you've ever done in your life. Everything from here on forwards will just like expand your life. Just keep going, enjoy, enjoy the journey, enjoy the ride. My second goosebumps for our chat. Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 41:57

Thank you so much for joining us today. It's been a wonderful chat. If doing this alone feels heavy, Women's Divorce Academy offers clear guidance, practical tools, and a supportive community for the legal, financial, and emotional realities of divorce. Whether you're considering separation in the middle of it or rebuilding afterwards, it's something here for you. I'm at Women's DivorceAcademy.com