Divorce with Carolyn

'No one's coming to save you' – How Angela rebuilt after her husband's affair

• Season 1 • Episode 19

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0:00 | 49:57

Angela knew her marriage was over long before either of them did anything about it. What followed – infidelity, separation, court proceedings, full-time sole parenting in a regional town on a very low income – was by any measure a brutal few years. What she built on the other side of it is extraordinary.

In this episode, Angela shares her story honestly and without filter — the dark days, the therapy (nearly two years of weekly sessions), the anxiety and depression she's open about, the boundaries she had to learn to hold, and the moment she stopped waiting for someone to save her and decided to save herself.

She's now a buyer's agent, and she brings all of that experience to this conversation.

We cover:

- What Angela's marriage breakdown really looked like – and the weight of holding it together for years before it ended

- How she got through the dark early days of separation

- The role of therapy and boundaries in rebuilding her life

- How she fell into a career as a buyer's agent and why it was the right fit

- What a buyer's agent does — and why the seller's agent is not working in your interest

- A woman who knows her numbers controls her future – what that actually means

- Credit card limits and car loans – how hidden debt affects your borrowing capacity

- The stepping stone property mindset for women rebuilding after divorce

- Why she took the word "just" out of her vocabulary – and why you should too

- Mental health, medication, and removing the shame from both


If you're wondering whether you'll ever be financially okay again – this episode is for you.

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Links mentioned:

Financial clarity toolkit – https://stellarcontent.thrivecart.com/know-before-you-sign/

Angela's business Oasis Buyer's Agent – https://oasisbuyersagent.com.au/


Send Carolyn a text

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SPEAKER_01

The moment you start talking to Angela, you have this wonderful feeling that everything is going to be okay. She just has that energy about her. She's upbeat, she's no nonsense, she sounds completely like she's got everything under control, and she's the kind of woman you want in your corner when everything feels hard. What you wouldn't guess from talking to Angela is where she started. Angela's marriage was already not doing great when her husband had an affair. She wanted to work to repair things, but he chose to leave. Angela suddenly became the primary carer for two small boys working part-time with barely enough income to stay afloat and no idea what she was going to do next. She was terrified. She suffered from chronic anxiety, and she had to start from nothing. What's remarkable about Angela is that she turned it into the best thing that could have happened to her. What she's built and the way she went about it is exactly what we're getting into today. I think you're really going to love meeting Angela. Let's get started. I'm Carolyn Tate, founder of Women's Divorce Academy, and your guide to turning a divorce into the best thing that ever happened to you. This is Divorce with Carolyn. Thank you for joining us today, Angela. Now, before we get into where you are now, take me back to when you knew your marriage was over. What did that moment look like for you?

SPEAKER_02

To be honest, if I'm being brutally honest, I knew it was over before, long before either of us either either did it anything about it. You know, it used to be like that roommate, you'd sleep in the same bed, but there was no intimacy. You lost that person to be your person to talk to and where you wanted to call them at the end of the day, and and download everything, I suppose. So I felt trapped. You know, I was a part-time worker, um, full-time mum, main carer, the home giver, the mental load, the emotional load, with a relationship that was quietly failing that no one on the outside saw.

SPEAKER_01

That's such a common story, too, I think. Yeah. And so was there a particular moment or you just went, I've had enough?

SPEAKER_02

It was actually him that pulled the pin in the end. It was infidelity that I had found out about. Uh, and we had tried to work through it, and in the end, he just went, you know. I tried to stay for the kids, and because it's, you know, you invest all this time. Like we invested 18, 20 years in each other all up. It's a long, it was half my life. It's it's a long time. So yeah, I look, I tried to stay for the kids. Um I'm a child of divorce, and so I know better than that personally. I know that like two happy homes is better than one unhappy home. And yet I was scared and I was stuck in a rut. And how am I going to do it? And what am I going to do? How am I going to afford it? And just how am I going to survive it?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And so I like that he was the one that pulled the pin in the end because I don't know, he I assume he was looking for a wife that was okay with infidelity. I don't think he wanted a wife. Um, so what were those early days for you like? I know it obviously it was really scary, and and I think we're a little bit similar in that when I left, I had also been working part-time, and I was like, how on how on earth am I going to make ends meet here? How am I going to pay my bills? Um and that's such a white knuckle, terrifying experience. How did you make it work and what did that look like?

SPEAKER_02

Look, there was dark days. There was days where I could barely get out of bed. You know, I sometimes I still have those days, if I'm being perfectly honest. There was days where I would get up, make sure the kids are looked after, whack them off to school and go home to bed. You know, Christmas was not very Christmassy, News Eve, News Eve, you know, birthdays. I just wasn't really interested. It was the bare minimum. And you know what? That's okay. That's fine, that's normal. You're going through a massive upheaval. Uh I I was Googling, you know, everything from center link to single mother payments to anything that I was available for. I had to Google it all. I was home studying and the kids were at school.

SPEAKER_03

So it was a massive adjustment. And did you have support? And my mum.

SPEAKER_02

Thankfully, she's been a blessing and some good friends. But my network, because I was embarrassed and because he wanted to keep everything quiet, you know, we had been split for I think two months. And by the time I put something on Facebook, like and I'm when I mean split, I mean that was like months after the infidelity came out, months after he moved out, you know, there was nothing left. And I put something on Facebook because I was getting questioned by people, where's your husband? I haven't seen his car, what's going on? You know. So I put a thing up saying, you know, for those of you that don't know, it wasn't rude or derogatory. I didn't tag him. It was just purely from my heart. I'm sick of getting the same questions and having to explain myself to everybody. And quite frankly, looking back, I didn't know anyone, a goddamn thing.

SPEAKER_03

But everyone kept asking for it.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

And he asked that.

SPEAKER_01

It's interesting that that thing that a lot of Because my ex did the same thing. We separated and we're living in the same home for three or four months afterwards, um, because we owned an apartment that had tenants in it and we're waiting for them to get out so he could move into it, which was a really long period of time for me. But uh the day he moved out, and we were completely separated, sleeping in separate rooms, we'd agreed we were getting divorced, everything. The day he moved out, I put something on Facebook just to say letting everyone know, exactly like you, and his best friend rang me up and said, that was really uncool. Like, you know, it's all still really fresh. And I thought, oh, is it? I didn't know. Yeah, I've been waiting for this moment for the last three or four months.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Well, I got a text message saying that uh he was pretty pissed because, and I quote, I hadn't even told my closest friends.

SPEAKER_03

Right. Yeah. I mean, whose fault is that? But that's not for me to take on. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

And I think as women we forget that because we're the caregivers and we put ourselves last. And we're like, so my initial reaction was, oh my god, I'm I'm really sorry. And then I went, What for? I haven't done anything. This was not my choice, this was not my doing. And like my closest friends know. Why haven't you told you all?

SPEAKER_01

And and also it's not like he said to you, Hey, can we keep this quiet until XYZ? It was just now you're in trouble. Interesting. Yeah, I think that's not uncommon. Really interesting though. Yeah. Again, it's that laying the blame, you know, and us accepting it. Absolutely. Yeah. And I love that the perspective that you have on that. You see it really clearly, which is cool, because you know, so many women feel like they have to keep the peace and keep things nice and it's the easy way. Sorry. It's the easy way. It is the easy way. Yeah, you're right. Because everything else is conflict. And I think a lot of women, I know I hate conflict. A lot of women hate conflict. It's a really it's such a learned skill, I think, to just go, well, I'm just gonna say what I think and how I feel, and you then decide what you do about that.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

It's really tricky. It is a learned skill, though.

SPEAKER_02

It is, it is definitely a learned skill. I'm very open with my challenges, my anxiety, depression, just complete overwhelm that I did a lot of psychology. And, you know, people are like, How are you getting through it? I tell you, I was at that psychologist every single week for damn near two years. You know, and it's it's time and money, and it was like an extra thing that you had to get out of the house for and you had to be half presentable for, like you had to be wearing clothes that weren't pajamas. That's about as presentable as I got. But you know, you have you have to force yourself out. And even if I couldn't make it, I would try and do a telehealth. But it really pushed me because it made me see that my reaction to his reaction is what he wants. You know, if they you keep coming as the aggressor, and historically I was the one that would back down, then that's going to keep happening. But then you need to learn to have some control over yourself. And that also includes putting in boundaries. Now, I say that like it's quite an easy thing to do, and he is not. Um, you know, to the point that I would I was arguing with my psychologist, going, oh my God, but he's gonna come at me like I'm making myself 10, my life 10 times harder. If I do this, he's gonna escalate. And she's like, Yeah, he will. And he's going to keep escalating and he's going to keep pushing because every time you say this is a boundary, and then you move that boundary and you relent, that's not the boundary, is it? So then he's gonna keep going until he finds that boundary. And that was really quite a pivot pivot point once that's sunk in that I just need to stand my ground. I'm not being unreasonable. I've had, you know, a few people like check, you know, where my head's at and and my thoughts and my personal boundaries, and it's okay to put in personal boundaries. Yes.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's much easier as well when you're not living in the same house to just go, well, that's the boundary. Yeah, that's the end of it. I know it's a really tricky thing, though, especially with someone that has, you know, pushed your boundaries historically for, as you say, many years. It's a new thing, and they're gonna they carry on and uh terrifying. Yeah, it's like the wicked witch being covered with a bottle of uh a bucket of water, I think, you know. Just like scream a lot and carry on until either you relent or you just hold your own.

SPEAKER_02

Well, they have to come to accept it that that is that. So for me, one of my boundaries was there would be no face-to-face interaction. So whether that's like in person or there would be no on the phone, it had to be like recorded, text message, or email. When nothing is misconstrued, there is no he said, she said. And that is a protection method that I still put in place today with clients if things are going wrong, or you know, I'm having issues with someone. It's it's all in writing, it's documented. And that is the only way that you can save yourself and be like, you know, I used to follow it up, a phone call, and be like, so great to talk. I'm glad we hashed out XYZ. And he'd reply, No, we didn't talk about that. Yeah, yeah. You know, so in the end, he was like, Oh, so sorry, I didn't realize that was a boundary of yours. And I'm like, Well, it is now, and I'm telling you, for this reason, this is a boundary. All communication is being text or email. Don't worry about the tone, just read the word for how it is. Because everything was too high conflict, it was too high emotions, it was fresh, it was brutal. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and I've certainly seen situations where women have tried to do that and the ex has tried to turn it around and say something like, Well, you're you're manipulating me, you know, you're sort of you're bullying me, making me do things in writing, and you know, like they just carry on with all sorts of things, and it's just it's a boundary. That's it.

SPEAKER_02

You need to learn to ignore it. You know, that's another another really big thing is I am an OCD A-type personality. I am very aware of that. I'm a listmaker or a to-doer, you know, I need to feel like I'm checking those things off. And so all of a sudden, when you have no control over someone or the situation or how they're going to respond, it I was very out of my element. But then I just had to accept that that the way that he behaved and the way that he responded is not on me. That is his choice or their choice or whoever they are, that is their choice. And I need to stop taking that on board because I can't make them behave a certain way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And it's just a path to frustration. I mean, yeah, all you can control is your own output. So um, but it, you know, some people never come to that conclusion. It sounds like, you know, whether it was the therapy or you came to that on your own, it was well worth it. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

Look, I I can't even tell you because, you know, those few years were, you know, very whether it was 2023 or 2025, you know, they're all kind of tied in together. Very hard to uh distinguish.

SPEAKER_01

And you mentioned as well studying, so because you had a change of career throughout this as well, right?

SPEAKER_02

Yes. I had a big change of career. I was in the Navy for 18 years, almost our entire relationship, funnily enough. I left that. I was studying, I was doing a double diploma of HR and Business Management. I was being full-time mum, wifey, marriage breakdown, and then I finished in between, you know, the court cases and everything. I finished uh and being a full-time mum, let's be clear, there was no part-time, there was no week on, week off. It was full-time. And I finished that diploma and I was looking at jobs, and you know, I'm very passionate about being in HR, but there was nowhere, I mean, you know, I'm in a regional town, so there was nowhere that would take you on without having experience. The roles were very demanding. Uh, and I I couldn't do it. I didn't have before and after school care, and I couldn't commit. And I just sat down, I was like, what am I going to do with my life? You know, like I'm almost 40. I'm a single mom. I'm going through this massive, crazy ass divorce. I've just done all of this study over three years throughout everything, and I've passed it with flying colours, and I I can't walk into that. I couldn't put so much more on my plate. And in the end, I did put so much more on my plate because then I took another left turn. I wrote like a, you know, a I'm a listmaker, so I wrote like a, you know, a pros and a cons of where I'm at, uh, what I'm passionate in, what I'm interested in, what I'm, you know, what I've got certificates in, where I'm qualified. And then I kept coming back to real estate and I always came back to real estate. But I just couldn't see it work for me because I didn't want to be a sales agent and I definitely didn't want to be a property manager, and I didn't want to just be an admin in that region, but not actually in real estate. So I think I was very clear on what I wanted. I just wasn't clear on how that was going to work.

SPEAKER_03

And I I felt I said to people, I fell into it by accident. You did fall into it. I was doing it for my mum.

SPEAKER_02

I had bought a unit for her some years prior. So for those listening, I'm a buyer's agent. So if you don't know what that is, real estate agent that doesn't sell real estate, I buy it for people. So yeah, I was selling mum's unit for her that I had bought a few years prior. She wanted to like upgrade to a little house. We were searching for that uh that property. Turns out I knew like all of the real estate agents. I knew their wives, their kids, you know, and it wasn't until we walked away, Mum's like, You you know everyone. And I was like, Yeah, I guess I do. And then there was at one property, there was another bloke there, and it was supposed to be a private inspection for mum and I, and these two fellas just kind of kept to themselves and left mum and I, and I was eavesdropping a bit, and I was like, Oh, it sounds like they work together, and then it kind of sounded like they were talking about different sides of the deal. And I didn't really think much of it, but the real estate agent called me up a week later and said, What do you think of the property? You're putting an offer in. I said, It's not the right one. But hey, who was that fellow? Because that was supposed to be a private inspection, and you know, you guys chatted the whole time and kind of left us there. And he, oh, he's a buyer's agent. And I said, Oh, tell me more. What like what is that? And I went and Googled and I was just like, this is exactly where I want to be, you know. I had to fight to keep the family home, like literally truth and nail. I everything he wanted, I just said, take it. I don't care. I just want the house for uh the kids and I and for continuity and a and a roof over my head. And uh I knew that if I couldn't achieve that, and I knew what I was doing because I'd done it plenty of times, but if I couldn't achieve that, then what was I going to do? And so I realized mum didn't know what she was doing, and I was doing it for mum. Friends were calling me, asking my opinion for like, you know, buying cars, household appliances, houses, investments. And once I realized that that there's I can be in the real estate side and I can actually like one, make money, two, be really passionate, and three, help people, I was like, this is it. So I just probably not the smartest way to do it, in all fairness, but I just jumped straight in. Like, no research. This is what I'm doing. No pros and cons list.

SPEAKER_01

No, I went all in. Why is it do you think that your friends come to you for advice about all that stuff? Do you think that there was there's just some quality you have that makes you good at that?

SPEAKER_03

Just genuinely want to help people.

SPEAKER_02

You know, if I know a good tradee, and because I'd done a lot of house renovations on my own house, so if I knew a good trade and they were like, hey, we need an electrician, you have to use this person. Or hey, I want to get the kitchen done. Great. This is my cabinet maker. I like, you know, I did I did an extension last year and the builders were beyond awful. So now I'm like, I don't have a builder for you, but I can tell you who I would not recommend. Which is totally helpful. Yeah. So I'm so then I'm like, you know, if you have a builder recommendation, tell me. And so it just turned out that I had all these trades and, you know, my clients are like, Do you know someone that does this? Yes, I do. Do you know someone who does this? Yes, I do. So it was just, you know, I think I was very clear that something had to change. And I was not looking for a blame game. Um, I've let go of the anger with my ex and everything that's happened. And I think to move forward, that is quite literally the only way you can do it. If you're holding on and going there, you know, like in all seriousness, I wish him his best life. Please leave me alone and go and live your best life. Just let me live my life and I am happy. You know, I don't care if you're holidaying and I'm not, whatever. My time will come. I get the kids, I get things you don't get. You know, I get the cuddles and the kisses, and you're the best mum ever. You know, you're missing out on that.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and nothing, obviously, nothing can replace that. But having said that, you're, as you say, like full-time mum. How do you take care of yourself in amongst balancing a new career, being full-time mum, doing all the things? What are the things that have to give? And how do you take care of yourself?

SPEAKER_02

Very good question. And if I'm being quite honest, for the last few years, I haven't taken care of myself. I say to everyone, you know, got invented wine and coffee, because by day it's coffee and by night it's wine. But in terms of I was taking care of my mental state. So I did psychology, is it MR with the tapping? I'd done like NLP. So I've done a lot of work. It wasn't until this year that I bought on a business coach. And she is very much like me, like no BS, straight shooter. This is what you need to do. You've already told me that. Now just go do it. And and part of that that was coming up in the sessions was, you know, my anxiety, because I am a very anxious person. I'm I might not present like that, but you know, I I am. If going out in public and getting dressed up and presenting, you know, speaking, a lot of pressure, if there's too much to do, you know, I my retreat. I'm an extroverted introvert. I love to go out, be loud, have a laugh, and then come home and I'm like, no one talk to me, which I can't do because I'm in real estate and I and I'm single mom to two kids, you know. So I've learned to like start reading books again. And my business coach is she's not woo-woo, but she's like, you've taken care of like the mind, you've taken care of like the heart, you know, you're letting the anger go, but your body remembers. And I was like, I've I literally feel that. Like I feel it. Um and I was, you know, I was going to the Cairo and I was getting remedial massages and nothing was working. And uh, she introduced me to a kahuna massage. And when she was describing it, I was like, very odd. But I swear to God, it's the best thing ever. Really? Yeah. 90 minutes on that table, and I'm just blissed out. Because even in like in a massage, you know, if they do two minutes on this shoulder, I'm like, oh, it doesn't feel like they did the same amount of time on this shoulder. Like it's that list making, right? So you can drink Hawaiian. Oh, you missed that spot. But in the kahuna, it's it's like very, it's Hawaiian, it's very languid moves. And so one minute she's at my neck and then she's down at my toes on the opposite foot. And I'm like, how did you get there? And so you can't keep up. So your mind just has to shut down and it has to take that break.

SPEAKER_01

I've heard actually, I have a friend that likes a kahuna massage, and she said she cries whenever she gets one.

SPEAKER_02

Do you feel any emotional release when you when you have yours? No, but the first time I felt like I brought back a childhood memory because of the smell of the oil. And I and I was the whole time I was trying to like work it out, and this image just kept popping in. And she did say some people go on journeys and others cry. And you know, I kind of wish I was a crier at times because I feel like it'd be a big stress reliever, but I think with everything that I've gone through, I've just learned not to. So I I need to express it in other ways.

SPEAKER_01

Quick pause here. I want to tell you about something. One of the things Angela comes back to in this conversation is the importance of getting informed before you make any decisions. Knowing your numbers, understanding what you're entitled to, not just nodding along and hoping for the best. That's exactly what Women's Divorce Academy is built for. It's a content library with all the resources you need if you're a woman navigating separation and divorce right now. From financial guidance, parenting support, confidence, personal growth, career, all of it in one place, at your own pace, for just $49 a month. You'll find the link in the show notes. I'd love to see you in there. Okay, let's get back to Angela.

SPEAKER_02

But yeah, that after that first massage, I walked out and I felt like on that, you know, that high for like a week. It was insane. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And so now it's just trying to take that time, you know, once once a once a fortnight or once every three weeks, just trying to make sure that I'm checking in and I'm doing something for me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Which I think, you know, given everything you Got going on, that's that's good, that's great that you you've got that touch point to come back to when you're thinking about. I wanted to come back to you know, the the that sort of finding financial independence, which I know you said it's you know it's not optional, and especially like you're on your own, right? So like there's no one coming to save you. You're working part-time, you had to get financially independent. Was there a moment that that landed for you and you really grabbed that with two hands and went, I'm making that happen? Or was it a gradual kind of opening?

SPEAKER_02

Look, imposter syndrome is real, even now, you know, it's real. Did I do the right thing? Um so I think once I made the decision that this is the direction that I wanted to go and this is what I wanted to be doing, even when that imposter syndrome hit, I really had to work really hard to pull myself out and go, no, like I don't have a choice. I can't just go, oh, if it doesn't work, it'll be right. No, it won't be bloody right. It has to work, and I'm going to make it work. And so um probably a lot because I was over a barrel, but also because like I had done the work on myself. I had let go as much as I could towards him. You know, someone told me a long time ago that one day I will thank him for everything I've been through, and I thought, oh my god, you are crazy. And I honestly can say I am not there. I am not gonna be going, thank you for everything you have put me and the children through because I wouldn't be here.

SPEAKER_01

But I am appreciative. Yeah, you can be happy with where your life is without actually thanking someone who fucked you over.

SPEAKER_02

I yes, exactly. I am very appreciative of the real shit lessons that I learned. And because it I've come out stronger, you know, like I literally dislocated my shoulder. I rolled over in bed and I was under so much stress that my shoulder popped out. Now I didn't know what I had done. So I rolled out of bed and got an ice pack. Right. And then I walked into the it like, you know, okay, it's a bit sore. Jump back into bed and and I couldn't, I couldn't put my arm down. I was like, oh, something's not right in here. And I got this big lump down here, didn't realize it was a bone. Um and I went into emergency on a Sunday night and they were like, What have you done? And I said, Oh, nothing. Like I rolled over in bed, and the doctors and nurses are like, No, no, no, what have you done? And I was like, I swear to God, if I had some crazy sex story to sh to share with you, I would happily keep you all entertained. Unfortunately, I rolled over in bed and I'm like so sleep deprived and so stressed, and they were just like, This is insane.

SPEAKER_01

Wow. That's incredible. So clearly that's as you say, like the body keeps the score, right? You know, you think you're dealing with everything, but your body's carrying all of it. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Now you said there were some big shit lessons that you learnt there. What do you think the biggest lessons you've learned have been through that process?

SPEAKER_02

I think confidence is a big one. And I think accountability, you know, no one's coming to save you. Literally, no one is gonna come and dig you out of this shit. If you're not gonna dig yourself out of it, well, no one else is coming along with the shovel. So for me, it was I just needed to stop waiting. I didn't need, I needed to realize that I didn't need someone's permission. You know, even as they made the decision to start the business, I like ran it past my friends. I ran it past my mum. I was literally waiting for someone to throw up an objection as to why I shouldn't do it. You know, and and then I just realized like this is nuts. Like, I'm 39, almost 40. I've got this money from the divorce, I've gone through all this. I'm I'm a mum of two kids. Like, I'm not a teenager. If I want to do this and I fuck it up, then I do it and I fuck it up and I fail. Whatever. No one's coming to save you. Like, save yourself. Do the work, let the shit go, whatever it is. And yes, there's people that have had an easier time than me. Yes, there's people that's had a harder time than me. And I'm not trying to take away from any of that, but at some point, you need to save yourself.

SPEAKER_01

Absolutely. Absolutely. It did, yeah. Even if you've been done the wrongest of wrongs, it's your life and you're the one suffering the re the repercussions, and it's up to you to get yourself out of it. I totally agree with that, and I think it's such a good lesson. And you just touched a little bit there too on uh needing to run things past your friends and all that sort of thing. And I think it's such a classic self-trust thing. I think we lose our self-trust, especially in a relationship where you've been blindsided by something, where there's been infidelity, or you know, suddenly they've gone, or something, because all of what you believe to be true turns out to be a complete lie. So what did I miss? What was I getting wrong? Can I not trust my own judgment anymore?

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

And then I see it in women all the time. And then, yeah, you have real trouble just backing yourself for anything. And as you say, it's your life, and and you need to, I think, just it's it, I think I guess it's it's like a muscle, right? You know, you have just have to practice it. It'll work it. Little things like, I don't know, what flavour giant bucket of ice cream should I eat tonight, or you know, red wine wine or white wine or whatever, and work it bigger, like, should I start this business? But um, but clearly you have very supportive friends too who said, Yes, that's a great idea.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, they they were just like, uh, I think things, you know, court was still ticking along. It had quiet and down at that point, but it was still going in the background. And they kind of, I just rocked in and said, This is what I'm doing, and they just went, we knew you would be in and with an announcement soon because this thing, as soon as things get too quiet and too, you know, just running, just let the trains run, you shake it up. And I was like, Do it?

unknown

Hmm.

SPEAKER_03

Anyway. It's the best shakeup I've done. Yeah, it's a really good one, and it's turned out well for you.

SPEAKER_02

It has turned out well, yeah. And so it brought me into now looking at, you know, my personal branding and where am I passionate? Like, yes, my business, I'm passionate. But that also really aligns, like, you know, Oasis Buyers Agent really aligns with Angela Crawford, the brand. You know, I'm really passionate about working with women in particular, like anyone in general, but very much women, we are the caregivers. We're the traditional role models and the and the mothers, and we give up our careers, and you know, men can't grow babies, so so we have to. And with that comes the consequences of you give your career up, your time, your sleep, you know, everything changes for us. And I think that we get taught by society as a whole that if you're not contributing financially, then you're bringing nothing to the relationship, and that's bullshit. And so you've got to learn to trust your gut again. Man, I used to berate myself if the house wasn't clean. Oh my God. You know, and I can't remember where it was, but it was a podcast and someone just said, run the dishwasher twice. And I was like, that hit home. That really like, who gives a shit? No one, you're not gonna know if I've run the dishwasher five times. I think I've got washing in the washing machine now that's been going for two days, and I just keep doing a refresh and I get sidetracked and I forget. Gonna have to do that afterwards. But no one knows, you know, the kids have clean clothes, the washing's done, the dishes are done. So, okay, cool, you didn't get to it. Great. Run it again. Yep. Yeah, absolutely. These rules are made up by our parents and their parents and and us. And rules are there to be broken to an extent. So uh take take it off your plate, you know?

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I I have a similar thing. I I and I'm very similar to you in that way too. I think I will always, yeah, the mud my washing machine gets run a few times, and sometimes I'll just run a dishwasher when it's half full and go, I'd actually like that done now. Amazing, so liberating. I know like don't come at me with the whole environment. I get it, I know, but also sometimes like you just have to do what you have to do. And my big thing is because I have anxiety too, and I am not a very good map follower. So if I have maps on in my car, I will very often miss a turn. And I always I'm never late to anything because I always leave plenty of time for this to happen. And my ex-husband was always like, Oh my god, you missed it. Like, you know, what do you and or like you know, there's that panic of like, oh, you're gonna miss it and like make a turn. And and I just say to my kids now, like, you just got to see something you weren't gonna see. Like, what that bridge, you didn't you wouldn't have seen that bridge. Amazing. So you go around and you you turn around. Absolutely, yeah. And we just got to like spend some more time together in the car. They love that.

SPEAKER_02

And you know, with kids, I find actually the car is the best place to talk to them. So much, yeah. Because you're not facing them, you're not direct eye contact at them. You're you're driving distracted-ish, having a side conversation with them where there's no pressure on them to answer, and you can ask. I find it so much easier to ask those questions. Or like when you're lying in bed and the lights are off, they're the easier times to ask the questions, or or let them get those big thoughts and feelings out. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. I uh yeah, I agree. I find that too, and especially my kids are a bit older now, so they're 21, 15, and 13, and the car is still I still offer to drive them places just as you get a fat chat and they don't really want to chat to you the rest of the time. How has Angela come out of, you know, from where you were in 2022, did we say? End of 22, yeah. Now, as far as your your confidence goes, as far as your feeling of capability goes, how what's that journey been like for you over the past few years?

SPEAKER_02

Insane. I think building the business has definitely brought it along in leaps and bounds because it's given me a purpose. It's given me a responsibility to myself, to my children, to my clients, to my professional reputation that has nothing to do with Angela Crawford, the mum, the wife, or any part of that. It is purely Angela Crawford, owner of Oasis Buys Agent. Look at what she's doing. Which must be wonderful for your own self-identity too, and your confidence. Right. Yeah. It's it's really built my confidence up to the point now where I can. I say that I'm not a great salesperson because I genuinely care about working with people. And if, you know, I'm not here to push them into anything. And if they don't, it's not the right time or that it's not the right fit. Like, that's cool. On your merry way, I really do wish you all the best. I'm here to help people, and it's funny because now I can talk to other businesses or business people about their language. And so, you know, when someone makes a recommendation on Facebook, I've had people go, Oh, maybe you should call Ange. Maybe it sounds like you need to buy a sage. Can I ring them with compassion and love and be like, and and this is like coming from, you know, the ex-Navy swearer, and I'm like, you really need to watch your language? And then I start laughing, and I'm like, I don't mean your P's and Q's because that's my problem. I mean the strength of how you're talking. Like maybe just, yeah, you're diluting your sounds, you're diluting your voice by it's just Angela on the phone. No, it's Angela. Mm-hmm. You know, if I'm not just someone, this is who I am. And I feel like that's another way that women make themselves small is through language. But until someone says that to you and you go, like how many times do you say just? You write an email. I'm just checking. You text someone, hey, just are you are you okay because I'm just at the shops? Yeah. We feel the need to soften ourselves in every way. Yeah, yeah. My chat GPT and and Claude have a have a rule, they're not allowed to use the word just because I hate it.

SPEAKER_01

That's so good. Make me sound more assertive. I mean, yeah, it sounds like you're probably you're I think you're quite good at being assertive, but I think that's a great trick though for people that might need just need to retrain themselves a little bit. And I just said just, oh no, show don't tell. There we go. And what about so what you know, obviously you had a chunk of money from your divorce, but you came out working part-time. How does your without, you know, you don't need to share specifics, but financially speaking, what's that journey been like for you? I imagine there's a big improvement there too. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_02

The goal was to make enough money so that I can tell my ex-husband that I don't need his child support. And hopefully remove that sore point because, you know, I have the kid, so he's paying full time for me to have them. And like, you know, let's be honest, childcare does not cover the cost to feed a nine, 11-year-old boy. I mean, they they both eat their dinner and then their breakfast and then they finish mine, and then they need a snack and maybe a dessert afterwards, and then an up and go after that. So like gosh, and they're not even teenagers yet. No, their legs are hollowed. So yeah, so it was great. You know, I I did. I had the uh had money from the divorce, and the first thing I did was was decide I was putting it into business. And then the second thing I did was just throw caution to the wind and go, fuck it, we're gonna build a pool and a patio. Because ever since we bought this house nine years ago, this is what I wanted to do. And I'm sick of not having it because of the court process. We couldn't travel without his permission. We had to, you know, let him know our every move, and I was very uncomfortable with that. So I didn't want to pursue traveling with the kids yet. And so I was like, you know what? We're building a pool. So it was our year. I committed to a puppy.

SPEAKER_03

My son got a couple.

SPEAKER_02

One son got a puppy, the other son got a cat, started a business, still in court, did a patio, did a pool, and launched a business and turned 40. Wow. I think I see where the anxiety comes from. That was a choice. It's it was my choice, and it was in my control. Yeah. And it makes all the difference, doesn't it? Yeah. It really does. And I think, you know, coming out the other side and look and talking about resilience is it's you know, confidence and resilience doesn't just come to you. It comes uh it's not like a lightning bolt in you being shot in the bum and then you and then you're like, oh great, I've got all this confidence and resilience, and this is what I'm gonna do. You have to make those choices. It's a choice every day to get out of bed, it's a choice to push yourself to get uncomfortable. You know, like I quite literally have Mount Washington on my bedroom floor. So if you want to talk about perfectly imperfect, my clothes are clean and half my wardrobe's on my floor. But you know what? Who cares? I can't get to it today. And that's okay. Just shut the bedroom door and no one knows the shit behind it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, you're getting stuff done, you're getting the important stuff done. And I think you do, you just have to kind of decide what's important here and what can I let go. It's such a I think you know, a lot of women I work with who are perfectionists just don't know how to let that sort of stuff go. And it's such a good thing to do, as stressful as it might be for some. It was never I'm I'm like you, I'm happy to just have piles of stuff. I don't care. I have ADHD, I love piles. But yeah, but you know, it's it's it's definitely a struggle for some people. Um and you must through your work, I imagine you meet women in a similar situation, right? As a buyer's agent, you would be meeting women who have left a marriage for whatever reason and are now looking for a new home. What sort of challenges do you see them as a buyer's agent now? You know, what what sort of advice would you give women about how to manage that?

SPEAKER_02

I've I've I've talked someone through how to get divorced. You know, literally walking. You're divorced levels buyer's agent. I know. I refuse to take her on as a client because I didn't believe she was in the right position. You know, she wasn't divorced, they weren't financially separated. I certainly didn't want her buying property. That's her decision. She decided to not listen, and that's fine. I still supported her, connected her with, you know, insurance brokers and mortgage brokers and helped her on a merry way and helped her get divorced. So walk them through that. You know, a lot of them don't know their numbers, you know, a woman who controls her or who knows her numbers, woman who knows her numbers controls her future. So if you don't know where your expenses are and you don't know where your next paycheck or your income's from coming from or how much and what your rent is, and you know, like I I went to Kmart yesterday, I couldn't even get a trolley because I don't have a dollar or two dollar coin because everything's tap. You know, and so when everything's tap, you don't have to think about what is the actual cost of this and can I afford it? You just tap the phone and off you go. But if you want to get really intentional, you actually have to be like, do I need this? Can I afford this? Do I have money for this? Yeah, you know, just like knowing the numbers. Yeah, agreed. Yeah. And and if you don't know those numbers, how are you ever going to move forward? So for me, it's having that conversation. It's women are still very loyal to their banks or their institution or their accountant that they've been with for 10 or 20 years. They might be doing a shit job or just literally doing nothing for them, but they're like, Oh, I feel really bad about leaving. But why? Like, what are you getting out of it? What are they doing for you? Nothing? Great. Go talk to someone else. Like at the end of the day, it it doesn't bother me who you use. Just get someone that's actually going to advocate for you. Because that's what it's about. You need someone in your corner that's going to advocate for you. And that's what a buyer's agent does. A seller's agent, you know, and I and I get it all the time, you know, I can't afford you, you're too expensive. The seller's agent is free. Yes, they're being paid by the seller. The seller is paying them. They're free to you because they're not working for you, they're working against you. And it's an education piece, and people really need to understand that.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02

You know, yeah. If you haven't hired someone and they're not working for you, they're working against you. That's the start, the middle, and the end.

SPEAKER_03

That's a really great, succinct way of putting it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I totally agree. And what about have you on the flip side of that, have you worked with women as well who maybe didn't think that they were capable of buying a house after separation, and then, you know, that they're actually, once they did their numbers, they were better off than they, or you know, they were more capable than they thought they were.

SPEAKER_02

It's just a scary time for them, you know, because maybe they've come from a four-bedroom house with the entire family, and maybe they have to go into a two-bedroom townhouse. But I give the same advice that I would give first home buyers. Just because it's your home now, give it a year or two, grow some equity, pay your mortgage down. You're gonna outgrow it, go to the next opportunity. It doesn't have to be perfect right now. It just has to fit right now. Use it as a stepping stone. Don't look at it and go, oh, but I had this, but I had that. Looking in the past is gonna is gonna be full of regrets. You know, if you want to move forward, you need to look forward. And what do we need? You need a roof over your head. Okay, not ideal, but if you've got two kids, great, they can share a room. If if it came down to that and you had to get like a two-bedroom townhouse or apartment, if it really came down to it, in two years, they're not gonna remember, they're gonna be like, wow, mum got us a new house and we get our own rooms. And yeah, you know, you need to go through.

SPEAKER_01

I think we take a lot of worry that hasn't even happened yet.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, yeah. And so for me, I'm, you know, I'm I'm no fluff, I'm very straightforward, and I just call it how it is. Uh, and I do say that in my discovery calls, you know, I'm not for everyone because I will like let you know if you're being unrealistic in your price guides or your wants or your needs, and that's fine. That's just a conversation that will come naturally along the way.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, yeah. And what about women who sort of maybe they're not quite in a position to buy yet, but they want to improve their position? What are the things that they need to focus on in order to?

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, so again, you know, women that know their numbers control their future. So financial literacy, not just for women, but in general, is not taught in school, which is, I can't tell you the last time I used Piagoras' theorem. You know? Not handy? No, not really. Not when I have to learn how to do, you know, budgets and uh school lunches and feed the kids and you know, keep these little people alive that I grew. So get Piagoras Syndrome, not so much. If I had, I didn't even need to learn accounting. I just needed to learn how to budget. You know, you walk out of school, you're 18, and all of a sudden you get to vote. What does that mean? You know, we're not we're not taught this stuff in school. And women specifically, men aren't taught in school either, but they go into the workplace, they don't have the kids, they don't stay home. So their their career progression is on a on a much larger trajectory than women. So they're exposed to a lot more of it. So, you know, uh my sister's probably gonna kill me for saying this, but she rang me about, you know, possibly buying a house. And I said, Yep, that's fine. And I said, Oh, do you have any debt? And she was like, No. And I said, you know, most people don't realize that credit card debt, even if you have a $5,000 credit card debt that could hamper or $5,000 or $10,000. You could be limiting your borrowing capacity by $50,000 to $70,000.

SPEAKER_00

Wow.

SPEAKER_02

It's not, yeah, it's incre it's incredible. But you if you don't know that, you don't know what you don't know, right? So it's like have a conversation, let's see where you're at, connect you with a financial planner. If you're not ready to use me, no worries, but go talk to a broker, run your numbers with them. The brokers I work with, you know, they go through and say, show me your debts, show me your serviceability, reduce these debts down. Like going back to my sister, she had uh a car loan. And, you know, on average car loans at 12%. She had money in the bank on average at 1%. And I said, Okay, well, you're paying the bank 11% interest and it blew her mind. And I was like, and you get nothing out of it, but you're still paying interest on that 14 odd thousand dollars, regardless of if it's down, you've you've paid it down to 10 grand, but they're still charging you interest at 14. And so it's these, she was like, I d I didn't know this. Yeah, yeah. And so I love blowing people's minds. And, you know, I'm not a financial planner, I can't give financial advice, but I can teach you about money and how it can impact it. You know, I worked for a friend who's a mortgage broker when I got out of the Navy. I'm not a qualified mortgage broker. I haven't done my, you know, study behind it. But as the PA, I saw the numbers and I had to speak to clients about, hey, you know, what's this chunk of money that you've taken out for? Because the bank's lending policy changes all the time. And so maybe a woman can't afford it now, but maybe in three months she can. Maybe only in a month, you know. But if you don't know and you don't have those conversations, nothing is going to change. So you need to get a handle on your numbers. It's yeah, and I think promotion job.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, absolutely. And I think there's a a huge element of shame or feeling of incompetence or something that a lot of women have that. You just kind of, as you said before, like there's no one coming to save you now, right? Like you just kind of and and people in positions like yours aren't asking for the numbers so they can go, oh my god, you borrowed for what? Yeah. Very much just about. This is the reality. What can we do to shift that dial for you so that you can get where you want to go? Exactly.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. And I think everybody needs, you know, someone like that on their side. It's really important.

SPEAKER_02

And having- I would say, like, there's no such thing as a dumb question except the one you don't ask. Because if you don't know, you don't know. So how are you going to find out if you don't ask it? Yeah. Find someone you're comfortable with. It might not be me, it might be another buyer's agent, it might be family friend, whoever it is, whoever that person is for you, find that person and ask them the dumb questions that you think are dumb. Because they'll probably tell you that they're not dumb questions. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Or, you know, Google them, chat GPT them, whatever, it doesn't matter.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah. There's answers everywhere. Do you know one of the best things coming out of my divorce was I couldn't get a credit card because we had mortgages and I was tied to all the mortgages and I was on like very little income, like the you know, Centelink and child support. So I couldn't get a credit card. I almost died. How am I gonna live without a credit card? You know, we put everything on the credit card and then we paid it off at the end of the month. So now how was I gonna live? So I had to learn how to do a visa debit. Three years down the track, I am not interested in a credit card. If if I can't afford it, I can't afford it. Or if, like, say we're buying concert tickets and I'm going with a group of friends, I'll be like, right, you all know I don't have a credit card, so whose card's it going on and I'll just transfer you the money. Yeah, perfect. But it's so transparent with it.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, and it's you know, it's just you don't know what you don't know, right? As you said, you know, you've always done it that way. Doesn't mean you have to keep doing it that way. It's well, thank you for sharing all of that today. I I have one final question for you, which is just if if you I guess if you could go back and speak to either yourself in that early phase or even another woman who's going through it at the moment and is going, how like, you know, I don't have a career I can lean on, how am I gonna make ends meet? What am I gonna do? What would you say to her?

SPEAKER_02

Get some help, mental health, GP plan, if you can't afford it, that is the most important because if you're in a really bad place mentally, everything else is gonna be pretty bad. So get yourself the help and don't be ashamed, you know. For a few months after I went on my anxiety medication, my ex-husband at one point like sent me a text message and said, Oh, I'm not the crazy one, I'm not on medication. You know, and and ever since then I've kind of been like, you know what? I'm on medication. And I do struggle with anxiety and I have been depressed and I do get bows of it. But that's okay. And I have helped friends and I've helped friends' kids because I'm I like to talk about it. I'm not shouting it from the rooftops, but if it comes up in natural conversation, I'm quite an open book. And it's again, that's something that's been learnt because if I'm ashamed of it, then it's going to be used against me. But if I can talk about it as far as I'm comfortable to talk about it, then that's a win, you know? My kids know that I take medication. They don't necessarily ask what it's for, but if they were to ask, I would happily tell them that sometimes mummy just struggles.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah. Yeah. I take medication for anxiety too. And and my daughter suffers from anxiety. She's not medicated for it. But I'm very open about it because I don't want that to have that stigma. I want them to go, of course, you need to do that.

SPEAKER_02

And how do you remove the stigma? You talk about it.

SPEAKER_01

Exactly. Yeah. We were in a situation a while back where uh my eldest child was uh in hospital for some mental health issues, and and he won't mind me saying that, he's quite public about that. But I was sat in a room with a psychiatrist and his dad, who I had not been with for a really long time, and he asked us both for the mental health history of our families. And so I went first and I was like, Oh, this and this and this and this and this, you know, everybody in my family is some spicy in some way. And and then they went to him and he said, Oh, yeah, I don't have nothing. And he was there with his new wife, and you know, they're both sort of looking at me going, you know, you're pretty crazy. And the psychiatrist was like, Oh, he's one of my favorite people. He just leaned forward and he said, You know, in my experience, when someone says there's no history of mental illness in the family, they don't know their family very well. Or they're just not very honest.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03

Oh, read into it, read into it, whatever you want.

unknown

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, I think that's really cool. And obviously, and and and it's obviously created that, you know, you you seem the way you speak about your kids and your relationship with your kids, it seems like a really close, lovely relationship you have with them as well. I mean, don't get me wrong, they drive me crazy.

SPEAKER_02

Sure. They all do that. And I may have taught them how to bargain and barter. So, you know, you know, my nine-year-old with Mount Washington on my floor, I said to him, I've got some new work clothes coming. I'm really excited. He goes, You have too many clothes already. For every piece you bring in, you have to get rid of three. And I was like, two. And he goes, three. And I went, two, and he goes, fine. I love that. So young.

SPEAKER_03

Yeah. Nine. It's gonna rule the world.

SPEAKER_01

Yeah, my daughter did that to me recently with I I don't really drink Coke a lot, and then I had I just got into a bit of I I stopped drinking alcohol last December. And so I was maybe having a Coke here and there, and she said, I don't reckon you can go a week without a Coke Zero. I challenge you.

SPEAKER_02

Yeah, mine's coffee. They know they're like, don't talk to me if I haven't started my day with coffee. So they're they're so good. They make me a coffee in the morning. And then if I say, Oh, I might have a second one, second one's not good for you, it'll dehydrate you.

SPEAKER_01

Also, shut up. Angela, it's been so lovely to talk to you today. I'll put to all your contact details in the show notes so people can get in touch if they would like to. And thank you for joining us.

SPEAKER_02

Amazing, loved it. Thanks for the chat.

SPEAKER_01

If doing this alone feels heavy, Women's Divorce Academy offers clear guidance, practical tools, and a supportive community for the legal, financial, and emotional realities of divorce. Whether you're considering separation in the middle of it or rebuilding afterwards, it's something here for you.